Before Dookie 2: How Punk Became Pop (1988-94)
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- Опубліковано 17 тра 2024
- Link to Part One: • Before Dookie 1: How P...
Last time we looked at pop-punk's evolution from The Ramones to Husker Du and The Replacements. There were pop influences, goofy covers and a load of melodic hardcore. This episode will feature everything from the Californian punk scene revival featuring Bad Religion, Operation Ivy and Screeching Weasel through the independent punk labels Epitaph, Lookout Records and Fat Wreck Chords of the 90s right to The Muffs, Jawbreaker, The Offspring and finally Green Day's Dookie. Enjoy!
#poppunk #GreenDay #documentary
Soundtrack:
Fruit on Grass; Garden - Arvi Teikari (www.hempuli.com/baba/)
Box has Key; Temple Ruins - Arvi Teikari
(www.hempuli.com/baba/)
Rocket is Dust; Space - Arvi Teikari
(www.hempuli.com/baba/)
Tree is Shift Deep Forest - Arvi Teikari (www.hempuli.com/baba/)
Luar - Anchor ( / luarbeats )
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Trash Theory any tentative release date for the Fugazi video?
Early September. It won't be the next video.
Trash Theory wait when was there a mention of Carly Rae Jepsen?!?
She's mentioned in the Robyn video from last month
Trash Theory oooh. I thought it was a playlist based on the 2 parter haha.
The Offspring and the vastly underrated songwriting talent of Dexter Holland deserve their own episode.
Underrated? Dude, they are huge and sold millions of albums.thats not underrated
@@patswayze7359I think he means amongst the punk scene. Seen them twice in 93 and in 94. Pre smash, and just as it dropped. $5 with the Bouncing Souls I believe. They were immediately called sell outs when they got played on mtv. They are still one of my favorite bands of all time.
@@patswayze7359 The Offspring sucked in concert I remember when in 92-94? their bus broke down and had to close after Pennywise .... they sucked so bad I felt sorry for them....they could not compete ...
Glad you gave The Muffs a shoutout, super underrated band these days.
I lol'd when I saw their name. 👍
Just watched this and saw the Muffs and had to check the date, but Kim Shattuck died two months after this was published.
I was 13 years old in 1994. These bands and albums were so influential to me. I will always love pop punk!
I was 11 and didn't get into punk for another few years but I got into Nirvana in around 1995 and punk a couple years after. I don't listen to music much like I used to but all the stuff I do listen to is mostly what I listened to in high school and college lol.
Me too was 13 and I remember the day dookie was released I wasn’t impressed at that time
I'm 19 and I grew up in basically a screeching weasel cult. Both my parents have weasel tattoos, I have a weasel tattoo and boogadaboogadboogada tramp stamp on my back. Screeching weasel is like, my favorite fucking band ever.
This is the most in depth & informative video on this subject that I've ever seen. Thank you so much.
@Enda Dorgan I haven't but definitely will now. Thanks for the recommendation.
It's ONENINENINEFOUR actually ;)
@Enda Dorgan
₩!
Been a punk and hardcore enthusiast for a long time now and I still learnt plenty from this 2 part series.
IDK. A decent amount of info there, but I'm not sure it all follows in as much of a straight chronological line as they seem to present it. Sometimes things develop independently rather than one influencing the other. It's like the books that claim that - because there are pyramids in Africa and South America/Mexico - explorers from one place must have traveled to the other. The fact of the matter is that back in the day no one knew how to built "up" without doing it in the form of a pyramid.
Well, that's strange. All these info should be pretty well known for a fan of the genre.
I love punk too but I think it's changed. (Maybe for the better) I also like post-hardcore as that is more or my style.
@@Gilpow nice generic response.
Depends on when you got into it, where you are from and what time we're talking about, how much access you had to information regarding said topic.
I guess answers are black and white though when you're an elitist know it all muppet.
@@shipwreckedonapopulatedisland Uhm, I don't think I've had it particularly favorable. Started being a punk nerd at 14, in 2008, when I got internet access, and I am from Italy.
As for the access to the info, I guess all of us with an internet connection have a pretty good access to all these info...
This makes me want to start an Eagles cover band
It's crazy how people get caught up on labels. I don't care if Offspring or Green Day are considered punk or anything else. I just knew that I really liked what they were doing. It was perfect as I was growing up.
It’s not that these bands changed, the public perception changed. Just like Metallica after 91.
I discovered Green Day in 1997 at the age of 12. I grew up in Mexico and at the time was listening to mostly local music and a lot of mainstream pop. One day, my friend Ruben let me borrow his Sony "Discman" and Dookie was playing. After that I never looked back.
Commiserations, 12 years old is to young to be assualted with horrible music, such as Green Day.
@@grubbybum3614 What band would you consider good then?
@@rickyspanish3053 I don't think any band stays good forever ,but my favourite would be Faith No Mores 'angel dust', Nine Inch Nails 'downward spiral' and a modern band like King Gizzard or Tame Impala.
@@recreationalelmersglue6053 I used to listen to Green Day in the early 90s, had their CDs. Then they sold-out hard.
Grubby bum lmao you have shit taste
Excellent recap of all the classic punk bands - brought back memories!
Pop punk
This was a masterwork of UA-cam essays. I’m going to be playing punk non-stop for the next couple of weeks.
How long until this video gets taken down for having five seconds of a King Crimson song?
Even Led Zeppelin and Jay Z would be shocked at how often King Crimson copyright strikes a vid. It's unreal and technically it's not A Copyright violation under Fair Use which allows Scholarly study which of course this is but UA-cam never sides with the Content Creator and doesn't enforce Fair Use.
Robert Fripp (the guitarist and leader and I suppose owner of King Crimson) declared in the program for the Thrak tour, that punk was a much needed and necessary change in light of the commercialism that pervaded progressive rock. While he plays like a progressive rocker, he has taken a much more punk attitude and direction away from mainstream music. I do know that he has long had complete artistic control of his music. He releases it all now on his own label and he also has a complete mobile recording unit that makes bootlegging entirely pointless. I think he would be more likely to respect the acknowledgment than to fight use of his material. But, this was their first recording (In the Court of the Crimson King) and it was released on Island Records which is currently owned by Universal Music Group, so they may fight it, but it would not be the fault of the band/Fripp.
@@skulengu6854 not in America. In The Court Of The Crimson King was on Atlantic, not Island.
@@georgeprice7922 Wikipedia lists the record label as Island Atlantic. It is hard to keep track of who owns whom in the recording world. I tried scanning through the stories of Island and Atlantic but as far as Atlantic goes, I don't see any relationship between the two companies. Atlantic may have made a deal for the rights of In the Court of the Crimson King, or Atlantic may somehow be owned by a parent company that also owns Island. At any rate, I still don't believe Robert Fripp owns those early recordings, but perhaps he does. I also believe that people think that they have the freedom to other people's intellectual property. If an artist, management company or record label does not allow for the use of their material, they can say so because they paid for it. People can always contact an artist, label or management and ask to work out a deal. I would love to see them being more sympathetic to fans, but I would also like to see fans be more sympathetic to those who hold (and paid for) the recordings both audio and visual.
King Crimson skips those five seconds
*THIS IS KING CRIMSON'S ABILITY*
Pumped for the Fugazi video.
Be even more pumped for a solo Jawbreaker video.
Ruben Durango YES we need a Jawbreaker video
Ruben Durango ^
Just watch the Jawbreaker documentary on Prime video.
@@6AM_YT sure, man, if I could afford Prime or consider supporting Amazon.
10000000% agree. Please do a Jawbreaker vid!
Are you going to do a post Dookie video? This was great
Please, no
I can sum it up for you if you want:
utter trash
Gilpow, I disagree, at least concerning the mid to late 90s, & early 2000s. There was still alot of great music, including rock & roll, coming out during that period, that deserves its own video.
@@Gilpow there’s some fantastic pop punk after 1994. The Copyrights, Dear Landlord, Banner Pilot, The Menzingers, Hot Water Music, Dillinger Four…
"They decided to take part and make Sweet Children."
Either I'm out of the loop on a classic joke, or this has been waiting a couple of decades to happen.
A video on Ska/Ska punk would be cool: From The Skatalites and The Bodysnatchers to The Aquabats and Goldfinger!
Jake Ream check out Pick It Up! on Kickstarter!!!!
the specials
Aquabats and goldfinger have no place in the history of Ska music, two tone was a thing of its own, Ska is jamaican jazz music. The rest is a mockery.
Mighty Mighty Bosstones, their first seven albums rival the greatest discographies in history
Goldfinger..havent heard that name in a long time..i listened to them when i was a teen, im 39 now and all i can say is i STILL think mabel, shes the bomb.
P U P
OH MY GOD IM SO HAPPY THEYRE IN HERE
You should do a vid on second wave/Midwest emo in the 90s
The Promise Ring
Cap’n Jazz
Get Up Kids
Sunny Day Real Estate
Braid
American Football
Etc
Yesss!
Yes!! I'd like to see that.
Yes please
Get Real Politics Ik they were from Seattle but they had a similar sound at the same time as the rest so they all get lumped in together
Omg, yes
I feel like the pixies also deserve some credit.
The Pixies are more influencial in the Alternative Rock perspective than in the Punk, but no worries, The Pixies are one of my favorites band of all time and one of the best bands of the 80's.
@@nachovichoZX the most important band since music was started with Pythagoras
david husband ☹️
Agreed. If you're going to mention Nirvana, you can't skip Pixies.
They get it from the people that don't rely on youtube videos for knowledge. Right? right.
I expected the Queers when you mentioned Ramones-core hehe
Great band
Saw those Queers at the Seattle EMP.
And leave out the Ponderosa Glee Boys?
Favorite band ever. Got two Queers shirts in my closet and I'm 38 years old. I'm guessing Joe must be getting up there himself, haha.
in a bit of irony I saw the queers open for Green Day in Detroit.
Yes, good job for mentioning The Muffs. They are such an underrated punk rock band.
I've been listening to punk since around 86but I've never adopted the "punk" attitude so i never considered bands who signed to major labels as sell outs but what I did consider a sell out was a band who changed their style to become famous.
That's what I consider selling out too.
I agree
In 1994 I was all about some Green Day. My folks said their music wouldnt amount to anything in the pages of rock history. Now they are one of the most influential bands in the history of rock.
5:34 young Billie Joe listening to Lookouts having a beer
8:01 is that also young Billie?
Now this is epic.
In all seriousness, punk and pop punk has probably been the soundtrack of my childhood. From Green Day, Bad Religion, early Offspring, and yes, even Blink. And this video was possibly one of, if not, the greatest videos you ever made.
The fact you even played a Propagandhi song made me giddy like a school girl. Nothing’s better than hearing a local band get recognized.
Finally... Someone talk about "Screeching weasel"
Woo oh ow ow owww...
this is why I kept checking back for 2+ weeks. I saw the next vid was going to showcase Screeching Weasel. One of the best punk rock bands of all time (in my opinion).
@Seth Ellison would it be better if they support Bernie, or Kamala?
Get off my back
@Seth Ellison its not exactly rebelious to be anti trump. I think a case can be made that it may be more punk to be right of center in this climate.
@@ComePoopAtMyHouse1 So being a rank and file Democrat?
referencing The Ergs and Exploding Hearts made me respect this channel so much more
I came here to say something real similar. And did so, in fact, before seeing this comment.
I also came here to say basically this. Guitar Romantic is one of my favourite albums (even though I'm not thrilled with the mix). Amazing band, Exploding Hearts. Ergs are great too.
Thanks for mentioning The Dead Milkmen! Most pieces on pop punk history leave them out. The fact that they were regularly being played on MTV almost ten years before the late 90's pop punk boom is really significant. They don't deserve to be ignored.
Was wondering myself if he would ignore the surf punk influence on punk here in America. Dead Milkmen were everywhere on college radio.
A truly underrated band. Metaphysical graffiti is an all time favorite. Methodist coloring book. 😂
It was those cheap Epitaph, Lookout and Dischord compilation tapes and CD’s that got me into the Punk genre back in the day. I couldn’t afford to drop 13 bucks on a Metallica or Guns n Roses album, but 8 bucks for 20+ tracks were right up my alley.
Man, 24 Hour Revenge Therapy is just a fucking masterpiece.
Also, props for shouting-out Guitar Romantic. The Exploding Hearts were taken from us too soon.
My literal favorite record of all time.
I’m so happy you put in DVP by PUP
Dillon Wilson yeah man. Pop punk/emo is still alive and well, with bands like Pup, Jeff rosenstock, remo drive, sorority noise. Always stoked to get new, we’ll written punk in the vein of the stuff I grew up with.
1:23 To be fair, there were tons of great punk bands that incorporated synths into their sound (The Screamers, The Nuns, The Damned, etc.), but oooooh lord is that 1983 Bad Religion album was burning garbage. Hilariously bad. And it has nothing to do with the synth and everything to do with trying to make a commercially viable album. I basically wrote them off as a band until someone introduced me to their earliest stuff which is really good. A lot of punk bands got caught up in that trap in the mid-80s. Even X, one of the greatest punk bands of all time, put out a 1985 stinker in the form of "Ain't Love Grand".
1994 was a good year to become a teenager
Same here. I turned 14 that year
The 80s was better, you got our leftovers 😄
Yeah. I was 15 when 1994 started. Until late 93, I had mostly been listen to metal. I heard Recipe for Hate and it blew my mind. Then all of these records came out and by 95, I was almost exclusively listening to punk.
Funny story about the Offspring. A friend of mine had a small punk record label (I don't want to dox him, so let's just call him "G") and he put out one of their earlier records. After they got big around '94, "G" got drunk and in a fit of jealousy he called Dexter to chastise him for being a "sellout", but he only got the answering machine. So he left this long rambling message about being a sellout on the machine. So Dexter, if by some miracle you ever read this, that is what that (likely completely unintelligible) message on your machine was. XD
Isn’t Dexter working on research for his Ph.D.?
@@cremetangerine82 No idea. I wasn't a fan really. I mainly listened to the 70s/80s punk in those days, despite having connections to 90s scenesters. My only connection here is the one degree of separation. But it is pretty common for punks to get highly educated, so that would not surprise me.
@@LividImp
It looks like Dexter Holland attained a PhD degree in molecular biology three years ago. Impressive!
Dexter is great, I like me some Offspring.
Offspring doesn’t get the respect they deserve
Next episode: After Dookie: How Pop Punk stayed alive (1994-2000)
Right! 1997-2004!
@@pantsnjacket381 I see u everywhere
@@glenndanzigsemployeeplease7638 exactly
Sorry but… How Pop-Punk began to really suck would be the title
@@pantsnjacket381 What bands do you like from that era? That's my time
Knocked it out of the park again Sir! Keep em' coming!! 👍👊🏼
Would love to see a vid about the rise / fall / rise / fall of Screeching Weasel. One of my favorite punk bands of all time (and still going in a sense).
I’d love that too. I started listening to them in ‘94, but even by then it was too late. They were no longer touring and BW was becoming really eccentric. I think at one point in the 90s he put the band on hiatus to blog about a minor league ice hockey team in Indiana. Anyway, my point being that when I got into SW, it seemed like their best days were behind them. Loved that sound though.
Selected this video as fast as I possibly could. Amazing vid!!
PUP's DVP was the perfection selection to end this montage. I adore them.
Once again, thank you for your great work!
You mentioned Alkaline Trio, my favorite of these groups. Mostly due to their morbid lyrics on Good Mourning and Crimson. Great couple videos, dude.
ALK3, what a great band. A shame skiba can't get his full potential on blink :(
Can you do one on the horrorpunk genre?
I'd love to see that but I don't think it's popular enough for Trash Theory to delve into.
I’m so glad you’re doing justice to the punk scene with these videos
i loved this video, i really appreciate that you play samples of the songs so that we can actually hear the changes
Some of what happened to Green Day started with The Pixies in 1988 , Social Distortion (Mike Ness ) Faith No More changing singers. And most importantly Nirvana , Soundgarden & Sonic Youth. Ironically while Bad Religion went with a major labelmates Rancid stayed with Epitaph. Pretty much everybody else went with the majors. Many came to regret that ... Another story.... For another episode !
@erik, check out squirrel bait's skag heaven album because it definitely influenced Nirvana and would have been considered punk at the time it was released.
all in all, nirvana - offspring and then green day
I remember Green Day took sooo much shit from their own scene for signing to Reprise. Maximum RocknRoll was relentless in leading the "holier than thou" bullshit. They got 86'd from Gilman too.
There's no return from 86. Don't even try.
Right place at the right time, won’t happen ever again, on this planet anyways, glad I was able to be part of it.
Thank you for introducing me to all those bands I've never had a clue of! Your videos are the best way to learn about music and rock history in general.
I always wondered where 90s alternative music came from. It seemed very distinct and different from mainstream music in the 70s and 80s. These videos were really interesting to follow. I didn't realize the depth and influence of non-mainstream punk bands in the prior decades.
i always remember first time teen spirit hit the world.
Awesome 2 parter. I discovered some bands through both videos and shout-out for having Riot! as a landmark album. The giant Paramore fan in me squealed
Hits right in the childhood, don't make me cry at my dead end job!
I’ve been waiting for this video! Love the deep dives into history.
Could you do next how Psychedelic/Acid/Blues Rock became Heavy Metal?
Ever feel like there is a direct spiritual link or evolution which ran from Black Sabbath->Faith No More->Korn?
That never happened dude.
John Ravely Yes of course Metal-Funk Metal-Nu Metal. Jane’s Addiction is another good mention
@Marvin Bennett blues was never a thing in England, and that's where Black Sabbath and Metal were born. Most forms metal take hard inspo from classical and jazz music. Hard rock takes some inspo from blues and rock n roll...
@@SonOfOdin777 Well, depends on your time frame. English rock bands of the 60s and 70s were immensely blues influenced, as were rock bands of the US at that time. And bands like Black Sabbath are just a point along that line moving forward, hence all the stuff that derived from them. All rock derived music sounds like it does today because of the blues, no matter how far it's ultimately strayed.
And of course the blues were a mix of western classical and African influences. Jazz then developed out of the blues, and then was mixed back into that blues rock based stream and it goes around and around, with new influences being mixed in over time (Latin, Reggae, Eastern, Indian, etc...) So almost all rock based music goes back to the blues one way or another.
Back in college, in our music class we watched a video about punk. It talked about The Ramones and The Sex Pistols, and then went straight to Nirvana, without talking about anything that happened in-between those bands. I feel like this would have been a WAY better video to watch in a music history class.
Your videos have introduced to so many punk acts I've heard of but never listened to before. I feel like a teenager again. Thank you!
Kudos for the PUP love at the end! Along with focusing to Operation Ivy, Screeching Weasels, et al.
So when is part 3 (1994-2019) coming out?
Um... that would be After, not Before...
Its not. Apart from farting out the odd good song music has been dead since then. Well maybe 1994 to late 90's maybe even really early 2ks aint so bad but the rest is shit (as long as you look sexy on a stage, don't worry about the sound we made a computer algorithm that makes you sound like what we think is good).
@@spazbog123 That's mainly true in the Top40 scene, but it has always been true. In individual genres there has still been a lot of good stuff that people just aren't hearing. I heard all the same "music is dead" refrains in the 80s too, yet most people nowadays would claim the 80s is the pinnacle of pop music....and there might be a legitimate reason for that. I think the power of the music scenes in the 70s-80s-90s came from the fact that there were still independent DJs on some major radio stations. Stuff that is considered mild adult rock now (B-52s, Cure, etc.) was considered weird and dangerous in the early 80s (in the US anyway). It took DJs willing to spin that music to get it to a point it was considered your grandma's music. But now there are no DJs, no one to curate the music. Every radio station is owned by the same 2-3 companies and all of the music selection is made by bean-counters in a corporate office.
@Zerozerozero loads of good ones now though
@@spazbog123 Lol, perhaps good music in the punk genre is dead, but it's certainly not dead in other genres. Some of the pest prog metal music has been made this century. In fact, some of the best metal generally has been made this century.
I didn't hear anything about Dag Nasty/Down by Law/All (Dave Smalley) and they were also pioneers in the early pop punk beginning!
All is the Descendents. Just without Milo.
This two part series was fascinating! Thank you.
I have thoroughly enjoyed every video I’ve watched on your channel and often leave feeling inspired and energized. Thank you for your thorough analysis of these varying music genres.
Melodic Punk is a great form of Punk. When it comes to Pop Punk it is no longer Punk when it is Pop. Pop Punk is an oxymoron.
Someone doesn't know how genre definitions work
@@nealwesco7465 I don't know a lot of things but I do know that most genres are bullshit.
D.R.I. was great punk in the early 80's.
More like thrashcore,but they still deserve a look into
" Dealing with it" is a masterpiece!!!
Yeah, but they weren't pop.
You're damn right
D.R.I. is a straight hardcore punk rock band that crossed over later. Not pop punk at all
Wow, reallllly great job on this one!!! Incredible stuff you're doing, keep up the great content!!
Great vids. Kinda shocked by the lack of mention of No Use For A Name tho. Rest in power Tony Sly
Thanks for this video series. I was 14 when Dookie came out. It was just about all I listened to for about a year. It was the album that made me want to play guitar. And now I am in Bon Jovi. Nah, but still, good video.
Fripp’s coming to copyright strike this video for that 2 second clip of epitaph
Thank you for your efforts making this video. Its relevant and nice to show everyone, me included, what the punk music scene is, and was all about. Thanks
Wow. Unbelievable two part series. I was first year college in 91 and remember loving all these bands but def could not see the interconnection you spelled out so well. I knew it existed, but not to this level of refinement. Excellent work amigo!
Into the Unknown is awesome and nobody can tell me otherwise!
the songs are great. I wish Bad Religion would re-record it with their more traditional instrumentation. Jawbreaker's cover of Chasing the Wild Goose goes to show how great those songs were.
Very very good! I was turned on to punk in the late 70's, then I turned my back on it when it went pop. I was always under the impression that punk bands sold themselves out by changing their music! I have recently realized that nothing really changed. It was that "time" had finally caught up with punk rock!
Thank you SO MUCH for this video. I love it!
"I thought that if I tried, maybe I could come close to writing something almost as good."
Behind the Music Narrator: Those dreams, sadly, would be unrealized.
Lol man i wish that guy was around to narrate my life for me.
NOFX put out some great records in the 90s, and 2000 (I like me some Pump Up the Valuum), but I can't listen to anything they've done recently. Can't stand their politics anymore.
The Dance Hall Crashers are a good addition to this topic but I guess the video would go on forever if all bands were mentioned.
Great work dude. Enjoyed both videos immensely! \m/
This was much better than your normal youtube video essay, this (being 2 parts) if a full on documentary. I'd love to see this continued into a video about pop punk after 1994 all the way up til todays pop punk
For some reason I paused the video after Fat Mike's quote and listened to most of Suffer again. I've been listening to all of Bad Religion's discography in anticipation for their latest album that came out this year, but wanted to hear Suffer again in a historical context.
Also, I saw Bad Religion play Delirium of Disorder on a live recording last year and man that song is just awesome live.
A good analysis of how the major bands sounds led to Pop-Punk. I am just amazed that the Misfits were left out. They are probably the most directly covered true punk band. Bands continue to cover their songs. Additionally their iconography is still today the most recognized in the rock n roll world.
These videos have taught me so much about the music I love, thank you so much
I loved both of these videos and would love to see more on pop punk at some point! Bringing it up to the present day
One addition. Green Day covered Knowledge on a pre-Dookie compilation.
Was on their 1990 EP Slappy.
You missed the Acoustic punk group Violent Fems, They were punk on a new level and in the 1990's they go onto MTV before MTV stopped doing Music Videos right about the time they broke up.
Violent Femms aren't punk.
I see them more often categorized in the post-punk genre
The Offspring huh? Isn't THAT the group that did that '90s anthem to whiggerdom "Pretty Fly for a White guy"?
There's a lot of genre blurring going on, including the vid. Violent Femmes can absolutely be considered punk as well as some of the other bands listed as such. But it's likely more accurate to say that VF plays punk as much as anything else, but not exclusively punk.
Casey smith Aw, I love them 💜
Just watched the 2 parts for the first time, amazing work, was expecting to hear some DRI but no worries, these are amazing docus you are producing mate, keep up the great work!
Thanks alot for these videos man. Absolutely loved em. I'm 38 and grew up on alot of that pop punk stuff. So many great bands mentioned!
Same here bruh, 38 too. The stuff I listened to in high school and college is still what I listen to now haha.
Waves of nostalgia wash over me. Having lived through all this, its so fascinating to see it all organized in a historical "this, then that" perspective. Moar pls!
There should be video on new wave
I second that
music history is one of the coolest subjects in the world. Amazing video, mate!
Awesome Part 2 ! Would have loved you touching on how Green Day was blacklisted from Gillman and ended up writing 86 on their Insomniac album which referenced them trying to return and being asked to leave. Lots of ostracization in the bay area punk scene
Post Dookie, please!!!
Wtf I literally love 90% of the bands you mentioned in this.
Yeahhh... Right... 90% our favorite band was mentioned
I was gonna say the exact opposite. :)
@Erik Lerström Definitely!
Literally?!
I only cared about Operation Ivy. Don´t care about any other band he talked about although this was an interesting overview. It might be because I am a Mod and not a punk but it´s allright
Would love to see a video (or videos) on the evolution of the industrial scene. Great Channel. Keep up the good work.
I enjoyed this 2 part documentery so much. Thank you
I see Dexter Holland and I click...
Lol same
"The year the punk broke" is a phrase conned by the Sonic Youth in 1991.
yeah, that's actually documentary feature
This the best channel for the history of Alternative Music by FAR!!!!!
Dude! Brilliant work! Thanks!!!!!
I love both of these videos, and much of your work. But the undercurrent of non-critique about financial, community, and creative control issues around “selling out” is a bit of an issue. While the “more punk than thou” issue is irritating and bizarre, a stringent questioning and critique of financial success per se, desire for nonhierarchical communities, and creative control has been a part of punk since, at the very least, Crass and early DIY hardcore. And that anticapitalist criticism is nuanced, complex, and not easily contained within the issues around “more punk than thou.” In truth, I’d argue that attempting to simplify the issue as “more punk than thou” has generally been a way for successful bands to avoid the nuances and complexities of the critiques being made more than it has been a generalized reality. And thus they can avoid giving thoughtful responses, as part of avoiding their responsibilities to a community that loved and nurtured them.
And this is not to say that it’s inherently wrong to get paid, either. As someone who spent the overwhelming bulk of more than a decade on tour with my various DIY hardcore bands-and always struggled to make ends meet-I get that the need to get paid is strong, particularly as punks age into having more complex responsibilities (like kids, etc.). But my issue with many of the bands you’ve covered is not their success per se, but their flippant attitudes toward the punk communities they’ve existed in when these communities offer criticisms and concerns.
So, I’d be very interested in seeing you cover the complexities of punk anticapitalism in the context of the history of radical DIY hardcore-from Crass through Ebullition and Crimethinc or some such.
I am also interested in this and agree that the issue is complex. Great comment.
Chad Allen, thanks!
Get Real Politics, I’m not sure what isn’t clear. Perhaps you could elaborate beyond “What? Lol”
This is an awesome take and I'm really happy to see someone actually offer up something worthwhile besides "pop punk isn't real punk." And I think I can give a bit of a response as someone that pop punk is their favorite genre and has done the same thing with touring with pop punk bands. One of the biggest things that I bring up with this is that a lot of these bands came up in the exact same ways as a lot of their contemporaries and influences and were simply doing their take on what they wanted to play. Pop punk as a genre with its own conventions, ideals and musical traits never really became a "thing" until much later after the initial boom of 94. So I always took their attitudes towards "selling out" as them thinking "we did literally everything the same as everyone else except we got offered to go further which was not offered to those before us." A very big thing to remember as well is Offspring starting getting called sell outs while still on an independent label and it was from sheer record sales that they got successful so I can see how resentment in the scene turning on them could be somewhat justified. Green Day is another good example of how no one saw this boom coming because they were given I believe something like 130k to record Dookie which was like 10% of how much an album by a band like Guns and Roses or a major pop act of the time would have been given. Billie Joe joked around about it in an interview about recording Dookie and said something to the extent of "We were amazed at how much we were given and the plan was to record the album, pay our rent for 3 years and then eat tacos everyday for the foreseeable future." It's not like these bands were given this golden treatment when they took major deals and I do feel like they tried their best to stay as close to the ground as possible in the beginning before becoming the musical giants they became. And just from my own personal experience writing music and playing for a community I find the idea of having a responsibility towards them a bit misguided because I feel it goes beyond what is supposed to be give and take. Yes, they paid 5 bucks at the door and bought a shirt for 15 and sang along and made it a good show and then went home and gave money to our band camp. But at the same time I gave them their break up song, their fight song, a story about having suicidal thoughts and something for that community to come together under. I know that sounds like being an egotistical prick but if after so long that community just looks at you as their mascot and "just play the songs we want to hear" then at what point do you have to start putting some of your own self interests before that? I don't have an answer for that but I think it's a fascinating dynamic to look at.
I avoided talking about the anti capitalist stuff in that because I think that's worth talking about on its own. Punk is a weird beast to say the least with many different forms taking on many different issues. I know there are pop punk bands that have political songs but the genre itself never felt like it was overtly political once it established itself. Pop punk always felt like, to me at least, the part of punk rock that covered the emotional spectrum. It was an older street punk in my hometown of New Orleans I feel who put it best when he said "I've never really looked down on your end of things because that was just your path. You just took on a different beast than we did and in a world of all this machismo bullshit what's more punk rock than to talk about how you're sad or lonely or feeling vulnerable because the girl you loved left you. You guys are needed and are the thing to show that punk can have a softer side that isn't weak but takes strength in knowing who you are and what you are about."
So. I hope in all this rambling I gave something in there for you or maybe a different perspective or something. Also glad to see someone from the hardcore side willing to open up dialogue and not being aggressive about it.
Neal Wesco interesting and well written.
Agree. The organizations like 924 Gilman which made Green Day and Rancid possible were collectively run, non-profits. They were very anti-capitalist, going far out of their way to accommodate bands and not indulge in taking a bite of merch table or selling drink tickets even as they struggled to pay rent.
I never liked Green Day musically, but they did give back to the scene in a number of ways. Helping bands get recorded free and such. Less than I can say for Rancid and a few others.
can someone make a Spotify playlist of every band that's mentioned in these two videos
Only just discovered your videos. Great watching, thanks for putting these together….
Good shit bro! Brought back some great memories. Last time I felt like this was Goldenvoice 25 in LA