Part of the Atheist Debates Patreon project: / atheistdebates Some things we all need to think about when considering claims of contradiction in scripture.
Wolf NZ Outdoors “Again Jesus began to teach by the lake. The crowd that gathered around him was so large that he got into a boat and sat in it out on the lake, while all the people were along the shore at the water’s edge. 2 He taught them many things by parables, and in his teaching said: 3 “Listen! A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants, so that they did not bear grain. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil. It came up, grew and produced a crop, some multiplying thirty, some sixty, some a hundred times.” 9 Then Jesus said, “Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear.” 10 When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. 11 He told them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables 12 so that, “‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!’[a]” 13 Then Jesus said to them, “Don’t you understand this parable? How then will you understand any parable? 14 The farmer sows the word. 15 Some people are like seed along the path, where the word is sown. As soon as they hear it, Satan comes and takes away the word that was sown in them.” Jesus is saying that things are said in parables to people who are not familiar with God’s word. Not because God doesn’t want them to understand but because “As soon as they hear it satan comes and takes away the word that was sown in them” Jesus is addressing a problem and not once did he say God was responsible for that problem.
@@kpatterson1619 So, who made the people? Is "satan" more powerful than "god"? And why did you not respond to the question about 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12?
Coming from a Christian background, this is one of the most honest videos regarding a very important debate. One hardly hears an opposing position being offered legitimate claims and grace. People on both sides should take notes.
@@ver-il6pc yes I have. I used to be a Christian after all. Craig deals more with an anti atheist position with his videos. I am not an atheist but an agnostic. I am open to the concept of a god or not any god. But the Bible and Christianity are falsifiable, incoherent, and full of contradictions with history, itself, theology, morality, and logic. I stopped wanting to defend christianity.
"Anyone who loves his father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me " Matthew 10:37 I really don't care much about contradictions in the Bible, although they are a good topic for an entertaining conversation. I actually care about doctrine; the excessive demands, the extortion, the intimidation, and the unguaranteed promises what makes me question faith since I was 10.
That passage is bad, but I really think the "take no thought for tomorrow." bit isn't given nearly enough attention. If every Christian decided to actually follow this millions would starve, possibly billions. Its really damning evidence that Jesus was just like all the deluded apocalypse cults we see up to today, predicting the end times and then standing around looking confused and stupid when nothing happens and they've sold everything they own. The Jehovah's Witnesses are a hilarious example of this, they started after one of these failed cults. The leader went around gathering followers, told them to sell everything they own and gather in some field for the rapture. Guess what happened? Nothing. What confuses me is that after this instead of calling the dumb-ass a false prophet and leaving to rebuild a life, they formed the Jehovah's Witnesses and went out gathering followers yet again. I think they learned enough to give up on specific predictions at least.
Piesho Nais, read the entire book of Mathew, common sense tells you the center of his message is love. You can also understand with common sense that he often puts himself in a position where his identity itself is presented as love, he being one with God, and God being love. Now if you use a little bit of logic, substitute the word "Me" for the word "love". Now it says if you have preferences over love, then love is not in you, meaning love is always Universal and should never be specific, you need to love love first and only then the second rule can be fulfilled, which is to act on that love with others. Very straight forward stuff, it is not complicated at all. I feel a lot of people slept in literature class. The same thing goes for the Gospel of John when he talks about "the verb". People just need to go back to school and put more attention in class.
I care about the content, the truth. There is plenty of accurate scripture. Historically accurate. It basically says we live on a flat stationary plane with a firmament above. It's correct.
well, it's a relatively modern phenomenon that the bible is the central aspect of christianity, and that god wrote it. for centuries, early christians thought that the keepers of christian truth were the church and its authorities, and the texts were merely useful tools that they alone knew how to properly interpret. this was also how judaism worked for the most part, and by the time of jesus "everybody knew" that, for example, the prohibition on boiling a goat in its mother's milk "really meant" that milk dishes should be kept separate from meat dishes (see: midrash) although your point is valid as it pertains to american christians who worship the bible, and they are the christians who are the real pain in the arse for everybody
@@joehinojosa8314 The details are pretty important! The existence of hell to start with. Enjoy this one precious life, use it for good, don't waste it hoping for another.
@@freedpeeb Mr Peeb, I must remain Open minded and admit I could be WRONG. However you are AWARE that being "open minded" is a TWO Way thoroughfare. 🛣️
To the scribal error excuse: so, god is so sloppy that he never bothered to step in to correct mistakes in what's supposedly his *most important message* to his creations? If I make a typo in a friggin' UA-cam post, I go back and fix it. And, the last time I checked, I wasn't even a perfect, omnipotent being...
Imagine if the Bible came out today. Or if Jesus was a youtuber... just imagine the comment section. Visualize... Visualize... You’re welcome. You now have limitless entertainment.
@@ianalan4367 Every Christian who makes excuses for the atrocities of the Bible. On slavery for example, they often say, "but that was the old testament" and "Not everything in the Bible was actually God talking.That part was just written in there by the religious leaders of the time."
Whenever I listen to Matt D., I come away with a far better understanding of the subject matter at hand. He has an amazing talent as an educator. Keep up the good work, lot's people NEED your education!
I like how you touched on people with mental health struggles reading the Bible. One of the many things that made me start “doubting” was mental illness. Some people struggle with actual paranoia, they cannot trust, they cannot feel safe, they cannot differentiate reality....there are so many mental illnesses that would literally make it impossible for some people to be “saved”! Yet they can’t help it if they have poor mental health or an illness, so how evil would that be! Like you say- if god exists, then he is a thug!!! Sadistic 🤢
The whole problem with apologists asserting that errors or misunderstandings in the bible are due to scribal error or differences in modern interpretation is that by what basis do they determine what is correct and what is not. Is there a separate book that holds the rules of interpretation, a formula for sussing out the truth? There is no basis and without basis you must conclude that none of the bible is reliable.
Laura They have a special "Biblical Translation Machine". It's similar to the one the Trump apologists have for him. Funny thing is, is that there are as many different models of that BTM as there are xtians.
"r differences in modern interpretation is that by what basis do they determine what is correct and what is not" exactly, that's why you have no basis for what is a contradiction....comversation finished.
That's not true at all, you can't be dead and alive at the same time can you? Over 200 direct contradictions in the Bible, they could have used a good editor at the bare minimum.
Yes Matt, thanks for bringing this up, I've often fallen into that trap (when debating with Christians) of just bringing up seemingly obvious self-contradictions within the Bible, without really making sure that they definitely ARE without any REASONABLE way to reconcile the two or more statements that appear in conflict with one and other, this is what makes the whole process of debating as an atheist with theists such a freaking minefield that you have to walk with extreme care in, because we can end up stepping right onto something in a debate that we were not prepared to be on when we don't check where we are going and before we know where we are, they will have us looking like we haven't done our homework, which of course, many of them will love, because it strengthens their position in their eyes when a non-believer makes themselves look like someone that hasn't read the Bible properly, they will then probably come out with something like "aha....well it's no wonder you don't see God and hear him talking to you....you haven't been studying his word...get in that word brother..then God will talk to you", that's what I used to get Lol.
Sadly I was one of the few born into a family and community that one hundred percent believes everything in the Bible is correct down to the grammar. I also just came out to my family as a lesbian and that I don’t believe the Bible is accurate. It’s been a struggle. The main thing is that they would rather have a depressed daughter who lied about her feelings/beliefs than to even challenge their own beliefs and think about them. That is what hurts the most I think. They chose their religion over me.
Sarah Poynter im so sorry. Stay strong. You’re worth so much more than that. It’s shoved into our heads before we can even read and write. It’s not all their fault. Try to kindly show them logic, if it doesn’t work it doesn’t work, but at least you tried. I’m about in the same boat. The brainwashing was VERY effective.
Chris Garland yup I was brainwashed too. I was only free until I really looked at the Bible. I mean I read the whole bible before and knew about those problematic verses (like God ordering them to kill everyone including the kids) but just would gloss over them and repeat what was told to me. When I read it again I finally was honest with myself that what I was told wasn’t enough to justify those terrible things in the Bible/
@@J05TI wow it’s been a year! I’m good now. My parents still don’t accept it but they haven’t talked about it with me since. It’s like they pretend they still don’t know. But now I have a girlfriend and we are renting a place together. Thankfully I got out of that house.
Apologetics appears to be largely built on dishonesty. Or rather I have yet to find any apologetic position that when challenged wasn't at least defended dishonestly. But yes, absolutely, logical fallacies are also used comprehensively, and often in a way as to be hidden or obscured. They tend to have a great liking for argument from ignorance/incredulity (often being a god of the gaps fallacy too boot), and they are absolutely in love with special pleading and circular arguments. When one finally does manage to get to the basis, which often takes far too long, and if one manages it at all, it invariably will come down to merely faith. Though they often will do virtually anything not to have to admit it outright, and will attempt to couch it in softer terms or simply assert that "you too have faith, so there"! And then employ the equivocation around the term.
Let's agree you're absolutely correct. That will prove out in the comments. Let's get back to the gist of the matter in the OP. How will you move the thinking of the believer to more reasonable and firm ground?
ya, "reliance on the claim of magic" isn't in itself a logical fallacy. You can always get someone to explain more about their "reliance" on magic, how they know magic exists, how they would test for it, etc. and maybe find some fallacies in their reasoning behind such claims, but the act of relying on the claim of magic isn't inherently fallacious, until reasoning, that can be analyzed, is providing to substantiate that claim.
Ken Ham begins every speech by saying "My starting point is believing the bible is the accurate word of god" wait, if thats your premise, then you know nothing about logic arguments. Any conclusion would be shakily built upon that premise. This is of course a logic fallacy
I agree with you. No wonder you believe in God if you believe the Bible is totally accurate. If you believed that the Harry Potter books is totally accurate representations of the real world, then magic exists. I don't have perfect recollection of all the books, but I don't remember J K Rowling stating within any of the books that it's fiction, so therefore it must be true, right?
That's fair. I study a lot of languages, plus trained to be a writer, so I'm used to reading between the lines & thinking about how others use language. I forget that others really don't think that much about such things, though. I get in trouble with that a lot too- constantly writing things that go right over peoples' heads. lol
I think it's important to note that if there can be "scribal errors" that result in clear contradictions or other issues, it also implies that there could be fundamental scribal misunderstandings we have no way of discerning, calling, potentially, the entire concept of the holy text into question. I can catch an obvious contradictions or grammatically/typographical error... but I couldn't possibly catch the scribe interpreting something so vastly different from its original form that it isn't even the same thing anymore.
My favorite Bible contradictions come from the historical accounts of the Samuels and Kings as compared to the Chronicles. Battles where one account gives a figure for casualties and another gives a wildly different number for the same battle.
That falls under scribal error and is honestly pretty weak. Your opponent has to accept that the Bible is completely inerrant and has not been changed.
@@Tyrantlizardking105 I wonder why these differences haven't been reconciled? Hasn't someone figured out which of the two figures in this case are correct and changed them both to be the same?
I believe you made a minor mistake around the 18:00 mark. you say the bible mentions plants were created before light. I think you might mean plants were created before the SUN. light was created fist. although the fact that there's night and day before sun, moon and stars is also pretty strange.
stupidAgeverificatio I wasn't saying that the Bible does say this, exactly...I was using an example of something that 'might' be the case. But we'll address this when we actually take a look at the order of creation. It could easily be viewed as me misspeaking (and I wish I'd have said it differently), so thanks for the note!
Matt Dillahunty So basically you're stating, people's interpretation of the bible are contradictory. The bible has contradiction here and there, but people's beliefs are indifferent from their own book or they just never read it.
The timing of this video is perfect. I'm going to a bible study session this week. So many questions to address surrounding contradictions. Thanks for posting this and all your other videos Matt! I would love to open a dialogue with you if you're willing and able. I come from a "spiritual recovery" background and would love to hear your input on the things I've learned within this program. Hope to hear from you!
Either way it says land plants were created before marine animals, which we know is false. It also puts birds before land animals, but since we now know birds descended from dinosaurs (and in particular, therapods), that too is false. Marine mammals did not precede land animals either.
That there was light before the Sun is no problem at all, since that is how it was in The Real Universe™. The CMB, for instance, comes from a time long before there were any stars.
I think to many Christians, even scribal errors are a problem because Jesus said in Matthew 5:18 that "not one jot or one tittle will pass from the law until it all has been fulfilled." The way it was explained to me is that the jot and tittle are little extra pieces of a letter like the dot on an 'i' or the cross on a 't'. If not even a jot or tittle are going to be lost, then how are there whole sections that we aren't sure if they're original or not (like the end of Mark)?
Thank you for making your content about clarity rather than hate or ridicule. I feel like more people should be okay being skeptical about faith without resorting to the same shaming tactics or threats of punishment that made them skeptical to begin with.
John 18:20-23 ESV Jesus says "I have spoken openly to the world... I have said nothing in secret." Mark 4:11-12 ESV Jesus says "The secret of the kingdom of god has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that, 'They may be... ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!' "
@@oopsiepoopsie2898 in the first context it is said that Jesus said nothing in secret. In the second context Jesus says he has secrets for certain individuals.
somewhat informed but that might now be the actual context. Kinda like when the Bible says gods anger isn’t forever and it also say it is forever. But it’s talking about two different things
There are some contradictions though between the Gospels about very basic things, like the events of the resurrection, etc . . . I do think this matters because it makes it more clear that it is written by different people rather than something divine.
Exactly. You don’t give a flawed command to a flawed machine you know will interpret it wrong, and then get upset when something unexpected happens. We’re too smart for that and we ARE the flawed machines, so what’s God’s excuse?
Discussing scripture is akin to discussing the social structure of leprechauns. The basal claim inherent in the scriptures hasn't been demonstrated to be valid: show that a god exists, then we can chat about what it wants and why we should care about what it wants.
Naturally. Obviously. We're just trying to discredit their scripture BECAUSE THEY STILL BELIEVE IT. It's a step in the right direction and it HELPED ME TO ATHEISM. So stop being so damn condescending.
Excellent point! I've actually had third-party observers confirm that my otherwise pointless debates _did_ exactly as you say. I didn't change my "opponent's" mind, but I evidently helped some observers to make up their own...as can we all.
Scribe errors are not a good defense for a perfect God. If he moved the hand that originally wrote it perfectly, why would he then allow some scribe to screw it up? What...to much effort for an all powerful God?
Interesting thoughts. I recently had a discussion with someone and I went with the angle that God basically set up humanity for original sin, being omniscient and putting the tree in the Garden of Eden anyway. And he came back with, admitting, yeah, he thinks God planned the Fall of Man, and that was perfectly fine to him and not at all analogous to an abusive husband. It was not at all what I expected, and I did have to regroup my angle of attack. Long story short, we did have a productive discussion for awhile after that point. He was actually a pastor who had a podcast, wanted me to go on it, in the end I declined though. Mainly because he said several things that made me think he was a Presupper, and he complained several times about my responses of putting words in his mouth.. Then it turned out... he admitted he was a presupper. So he was attacking me for "falsely" accusing him of being something, he actually was. I don't engage with presuppers at least not beyond mockery or halfhearted attempts and thats largely because I've had discussions like yours with Sye Ten and its just a waste of time. So at that point, I cut him off and told him I'd never go on his podcast because of his dishonesty.
The tree in garden was a test, God allows the enemy to tempt you so that you can decide whether you will do good or evil. God told them not to eat from that tree, when the enemy does it he tells you to do it
@@littlebittykittytamityispr1974 Test for who? How were Adam and Eve to REALISTICALLY pass it, and what the blazes has it to do with us? The moment the world 'fell' and we became 'natural men', Romans 1:18 NO LONGER realistically applied, to the letter, anymore. It was invalid. And which Christianity, do you mean? It seems to schism, a fair bit. Also, no duh, Christians are not all perfect - even Augustine, Luther, Gregory XIII, Paul III and more, or Calvin. Or Torquemada. How far were they entitled or allowed to go, in their more infamous mistakes? Since we, as 'spiritually dead' or 'natural men' people, are not all able to EQUALLY apply free will - particularly in a hierarchy, post Romans 13:1 and Colossians 1:16. Or post Isaiah 45:7? And who designs, a suicidally prideful arch angel; or many ignorant, gullible, lesser angels - and what right, have they, to be here, or keep powers? With Eve told, nothing, of substance about them? Or wider stakes, to us. Standard reply, of mine, so far. And Satan certainly had free will, when he REVISITED heaven to besmirch Job. Who CARES what his irrational, suicidally prideful view of that topic, was, then?
I've heard many times that God speaks to each individual through the bible. He supposedly tells them each what they need to hear. To me that's just an excuse for everyone having their own perspective and understanding.
Well, the Word of God is meant to be the story of redemption for our sins. It's not something one opens up first thing in the morning, goes to a random page and puts their finger at a specific verse and then attempts to apply it to some fashion or issue they may happen to have that very day. It's bigger than that. It's to humble ones self in realizing we are a sinner, in need of a savior and God's love that He gave us that through Jesus.
Having an illiterate savior sullies the image of a perfect being just a little. Better to entrust fallible hoomans with the most important task because reasons.
My favorite contradiction, and one that also speaks of Gods ability to communicate with us via text. NKJV 1 Corinthians 14:33 " For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace." NKJV Genesis 11:7 "Come, and let Us go down and there confuse their language." Genesis 11:9 "Therefore its name is called Babel, because there the LORD confused the language of all the earth."
Matt, have you thought of making the audio of Atheist Debates videos available by podcast? I'm not sure if this is already done on Patreon or elsewhere; but if not, putting it on Pocket Casts and other feeds/services would make it convenient for those who listen while driving. Also, thank you for the videos, debates, lectures, TAE episodes, and all of the other work you do.
Bill, what a stupid and condescending reply. As this deity has failed to communicate clearly with its own creation, what do you propose is an authentic solution? Telling what it is not, is not telling us what it is, nor how you know that. If you are proposing there was no language or that the idea of language is a misunderstanding of the intended message, why bother to say anything at all? What is the purpose of stating something that cannot be tested or authenticated? What is the basis upon which you think meaning can be made of this statement at all? Once you have waded through all the ambiguities required to respond to any of those questions, you then have to tell us how you know any of your proposed solutions are uniquely accurate ones. If you had the wherewith all to look at these texts independently of your belief, you would realise how flawed they are with regards to communicating anything. They can though be easily seen as ancient human attempts at describing reality. They are consistent with an author who knows nothing but what an unassisted human could experience. One who knows nothing of the scale or complexity of the universe, nor the breadth and patterns of life.
If you have any "real" contradictions, post them below. Bonus points if they're in the same book. I'll start: *Deuteronomy 5;8-9* _NIV_ *8* _“You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below._ *9* _You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the lord your god, am a jealous god, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,_ *Deuteronomy 24;16* _NIV_ *16* _Parents are not to be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their parents; each will die for their own sin._
My parents believe the bible is completely error free and nothing I can show them will change their minds....they just shrug it off and ignore it...they don't care about rationality only keeping their religion in their own perfect cocoon.....any advice on how to try to reason with them or is it impossible using reason with people who don't care about reason?
don't test your parents about bible. Be a human as possible. Give them space to reflect without hitting their emotions which where it is coming from. Never go straight as religion, just come around that my give food for thoughts. If they will turn around partially then they will eventually, if not, then it is not and useless to try to contradict them because they may have invested a lot: memories, cultural identity and many other details.
This may sound cold but... their beliefs will die with them, and hopefully, reason will continue with you. My mom is religious, my dad not so much but I don't really talk about it with them, hell, they may not even know I'm atheist lol. You will most likely fail to undo decades of religious indoctrination on your parents so it's better just to leave them be, however, when you're near children make sure you plant some doubts on them because if you don't, the religious cancer will never die off, kid's brains are like 2 part epoxy, act soon and you can make it any shape you want (which is why religions need children to continue the bullshit) wait some time and you're going to have a hard time, which is what happens to adults who have been believers of the religious bullshit for decades, it's almost impossible to change their minds. Kids need education not indoctrination, so make sure you do that if you can.
Gordon Freeman In my part, it is not big issue, but there is cultural things going on. I grew up, what is know former Communist Block, where religion retreated so much that mostly would never be able to control masses. My kids or others are plagued by other damaging mentality - capitalism - which is destroying environment and balance of rationality. It is, indeed, temporary now, of cause. But there is still this human laziness in searching truth. They tend to shift burden of thinking into deities or even aliens saviours of any forms as long as entertain themselves with garbages. People still holding to this pattern of religious traditional way of thinking or patterns that seems to inherited although grip of old religion irrelevant.
Gordon Freeman In my part, it is not big issue, but there is cultural things going on. I grew up, what is know former Communist Block, where religion retreated so much that mostly would never be able to control masses. My kids or others are plagued by other damaging mentality - capitalism - which is destroying environment and balance of rationality. It is, indeed, temporary now, of cause. But there is still this human laziness in searching truth. They tend to shift burden of thinking into deities or even aliens saviours of any forms as long as entertain themselves with garbages. People still holding to this pattern of religious traditional way of thinking or patterns that seems to inherited although grip of old religion irrelevant.
If Jesus was fully human while on Earth and as the Bible claims, then he could not have been inerrant or perfect as the Bible asserts. Why did God prepare hell for people if he desperately wanted for all people to love and obey him? Since he did make hell, that proves he intended to use it for people; ie, had to create unbelievers; else he'd not have made hell! And how come an almighty God does not get what he so badly desires; such all people to accept and love him?
1. That's true. 2. That is because most Christians don't follow what the Bible says about Hell. According to Revelations, no one goes to Hell until after Judgement Day. Most Christians think Hell is already there, wherever it's supposed to be in Creation. 3. Because he's a creation of flawed human beings from the Bronze Age.
Hell is winter, where we walk with Satan. Heaven is summer, where we walk with god. Satan and god are twins. The religious year starts with the spring equinox/passover of sun from hell to heaven. Those in the southern hemisphere must walk on their heads in order to experience heaven (our summer where year is divided between summer and winter).
The fairy tale bible and talmuds were written in Rome, Italy; which does have the separate seasons. The Roman god Jupiter was kidnapped and renamed Yahveh. There are different breakouts of the year in the holey bible. Noah (Saturn) had three sons (seasons). Shem/Pluto = winter, Japhet/Neptune = spring and Ham/Jupiter = summer. Some twin breakouts are Lot/winter an Abraham/summer. Ishmael/winter and Isaac/summer. Esau/winter and Jacob/summer. Anubis/winter and Horus/summer. John the Baptizer/winter and Jesus/summer. God (Jupiter/summer sun) and Satan (Saturn/winter sun) are one. The moon and 5 nearest planets are equated with the sun to some degree. The 7 candlle sticks are the 7 Elohim of the O.T. and symbol the divisions of the year into 7 months summer and 5 months winter. The first of the 5 terrible months of winter is id with the scorpion in Scorpio. (book of rev.). One needs to have zodiacs keyed to the age of Taurus and Aries, when reading the bible. The biblical (religious) year starts with the spring equinox. It always pisses off bible thumpers when I meantion that Ham is Jupiter and is the senior god of the O.T.
+Bob Balkas. check out Woolley's book. archive.org/details/hebrewmythology00wool Terah (Earth/Egyptian god Seb/Saturn) had three sons; Nahor II (snorter) was winter, Abram was Spring and Haran was summer. The elevation of Abram to Abraham marks the div. of the year into winter and summer.
New to the channel, you are an exceptionally eloquent speaker and your insights have given me thinking material for days. I still feel woefully under-equipped to flourish in a debate setting but hopefully absorbing these talking points will give me a starting point.
Kat Wheeler, debating theists? A very handy tip I employ, promoted by Matt, is to focus on only 1 or 2 strong, lead points, or rebuttal questions. Listing a lengthy, multitude of points will allow your theist apologist to take aim at the weakest point... I used to write big multi paragraph replies only to have the theist ignore 90% of my argument and focus on what they can manage to defend - simplify and strengthen, it’ll save you time and your wits. It’s all about pinning them on a strong point, even though there’s usually a multitude of points to scrutinise and question. Good luck! Keep your arguments reason based and relative to reality
I got into a discussion not to long ago where I assumed the other fellow believed that the bible has been unchanged since its inception. I will certainly try to remember the point no one alive today has access to the true originals. I"m also guilty of seeking out contradiction lists to use as ammo without reading the passages thoroughly myself. Thanks for this video!
well,my issue (one of many) has always been that god seems to give the devil free reign on earth to do whatever. So if even the first translation were perfect, then the second translation could've been meddled with by the devil. And then God would hold us accountable for knowing the truth. Maybe I didn't phrase this completely properly. But ANYONE can write a book. If God really wanted people to know, then wouldn't he give us something that looks so unique that it's unmistakable that it's from God? I don't know, I'm just wishing I didn't even have to deal with religious people sometimes lol. I just enjoy life (most times)
Thanks Matt for a well done video. Being born into a Christian family I like to question why I believe what I believe. Is it something that believe or is it what my environment has taught me to think. I appreciate Matt type of atheism that does not put down or demean those of opposite thought. Which is more than I can say for most people of either side. At the end of the day my belief in God is stronger because I see what the skeptic offers as solutions to our problems and the hope they offer for human kind. A few years of hopefully pain free living, a few years of financial security and a few years hopefully of political peace. I say hopefully because it all depends if your born in these conditions. You may be the unlucky soul born into that exact opposite. Into poverty, political turmoil etc. then the skeptic doesn't have any hope to offer. God on the other hand offers hope regardless of life circumstances. I do disagree with Matt. God doesn't make it confusing or hard to know him. He tells us clearly in the Bible how to know and see God. Matt5:8 "blessed are the pure in heart for they will see God." Could it be our sin that keeps us from seeing God? And many of you love your sin more than God. The creation proclaims the glory of God. The Bible tells how to see God. How much clearer does it need to be. Don't blame your lack of knowing if there is a God on God not showing himself when you have not followed Gods directive on knowing Him. That's a you problem.
And what would you "encourage" these Atheists do - those who have read and understood the Bible many times, have been fervent evangelising pastors and have now left the church and believe that all religion is a crock?
I think there's an even better kind of contradiction to point out than statements which conflict with observations about reality in general. Namely, instructions that no one takes seriously. When it comes to the Bible, we all know the big hits. Not mixing fabrics, not eating shellfish, etc. You'd be hard-pressed to find a Christian who's never worn mixed fabrics, for example, and they would know it, too. Reality in general can be denied. The age of the Earth, evolution, any given piece of history, apologists can fool people about that kind of stuff, but those same people are perfect witnesses to their own life. They know for certain that they don't follow at least some of the Bible's instructions. Or they will, when those instructions are brought up.
I wouldn’t ordinarily call them contradictions either, but I went with the way that word is used in this video. There are certain instructions that Christians, for example, are supposedly scripturally obligated to follow, but they don’t follow them, and yet they’re obviously still Christians. So the idea that Christians must follow those instructions is contradicted by observations about reality, and is therefore a contradiction in the sense that this video uses that word.
@lightningfirst689 you're right. Most Christians don't follow 50% of Jesus's teachings because they just can't be followed in this modern times. Even some of Paul's teachings aren't followed. The most common responses are: "these were meant for the people at that time only" or "It just shows how imperfect we are and how much we need jesus".
Matt, I don't care whether or not there are contradictions in the Bible, and you mentioned why. In very general terms, the Christian God is an all-powerful (or "maximally powerful"), all-knowing being who... wants us to do some things and not do others. (Again, I''m speaking in general terms, because it's not important for this argument what those things are.) Every Christian I've ever known says that God wants us to believe in him. And yet, less than one-third of all human beings even believe that their god _exists_. Now, OK, if you say that Muslims and Jews worship the same god (leaving out Jesus, of course), that makes a majority, but barely (55%). But even _I_ could convince people that I exist, and I'm not an all-powerful god. How inept could a god be that he can't even get a consensus around the basic question of his existence, when that's supposedly what he really _wants_? Who cares if there are contradictions in the Bible as long as there's a contradiction _this_ big? But there's more than that. According to believers, this god wants us, very basically, to do some things and not do others. Indeed, in almost every case, they think that he's... ultimately responsible for a guide book to tell us what those things are. But even Christians who agree on which book it is can't agree about much of anything else. Again, how inept can their god be? Note that, if you're going to lump Christians, Muslims, and Jews together in the first part of this (the number of human beings who even believe that this god _exists_), then you have to accept that they don't even agree on which book it is that's their holy instruction manual. If not, well, the much smaller minority who agree on which book it is still can't agree on what it means. That means that this all-powerful, all-knowing Creator of the Universe is also the world's worst communicator. Even his own _worshipers_ can't agree among _themselves_. What are a few contradictions alongside this glaring problem? What's _in_ the Bible doesn't matter much to me, alongside the fact that Christians can't even agree among themselves about what it means. But there is one final point about that. If Christians don't believe that the Bible is literally true in every particular (and relatively few are so clueless that they do think so), then we agree that the Bible contains both fact and fiction. (Metaphors are still fiction. Teaching stories are still fiction, if they're not literally true.) Of course, you can say the same thing about the Harry Potter books or the Spiderman comics (London and New York City _do_ exist). But in this case, the only question is how we distinguish between what we have good reason to think is literally true and what we don't. If the Bible contradicts itself, then that's clearly not a literally true part of the book. But what is? Without good evidence, we don't have a good reason to believe the vast majority of it. Anyway, thanks for the video. It was excellent, as always.
Bill Garthright When the Book Of Acts is read we learn how the birth of the church began. The apostles taught Jesus' teachings and commandments to the new converts. So church practice and bible application are universal amongst the church.
Matt Black The Book of Acts was written long after-the-fact by an anonymous author trying to persuade other people that his own particular religious beliefs were true. You wouldn't just assume that it's true if this were any other religion, because it's obvious that the author - whoever he was - had reason to push his own interpretation of his own religion. You don't normally accept religious propaganda uncritically unless it happens to be the particular religion you were taught as a child. In this particular case, as Wikipedia puts it, "Luke-Acts is an attempt to answer a theological problem, namely how the Messiah of the Jews came to have an overwhelmingly non-Jewish church." Luke and Acts, like the other books of the Bible (including the known forgeries pretending to have been written by Paul), were written with religious intent. Again, people would remember that if it were any other religion but their own. Besides,... what does this have to do with my comment? You wrote this as a reply to me, but you didn't actually address anything I said. Or you didn't seem to, at least. Perhaps I misunderstood the point of your comment?
Bill Garthright You were saying that the church does not follow it's own teachings. I'm not caucasian i'm native american natives don't deny the existence of the Creator.
Matt Black I don't care if you're a _Martian_. If you believe in a "Creator," where's your evidence? And if you don't have good evidence backing up your belief, why believe it? _You were saying that the church does not follow it's own teachings._ Huh? Maybe you should read my initial comment again,... more slowly.
Man! This stuff is so interesting and much is explained from this video. I may be in the minority, as I grew-up in the Protestant part of Christianity and a minority denomination. Of course, today I'm still trying to sort it all out, as I do not claim to be an unbeliever or believer currently. I will say this, how I was taught and how those "Christians" around me behaved and instructed about the Bible, there was just a greater emphasis on spirituality vs scientificness than may be many Christian denominations. In other words, here's one example when reading individually, as well as, hearing through preaching/teaching the creation account in Genesis. There was never an emphasis on how the earth and everything in the earth actually came into being, it was always on the greatness of God and God's omnipotents, omniscients, and omnipresence kind of thing.
Good grief! If people are going to argue about the two creation stories being in conflict at least don't incorrectly claim it is chapter 1 vs chapter 2. The first creation story is Gen 1:1 - 2:4a & the second is 2:4b - 3:24.
Matthew 13:10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?” 11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
Most contraditions are in fact contradictions, within the same text. You can offer an explanation to try to save many of them, but to actually save the contradiction you have to provide evidence that your explanation is in fact true. Until you can provide that, the contradiction obviously holds. If not, you are claiming to know something without evidence.
The problem is, Matt, Christians believe "all scripture" is inspired by god. That's what their bible says. And, that being the case, they believe that the words are perfectly stated, just as god intended. And, so, it's pointless for some Christians to come up with this idea of "human error" in the translation. It is just one of the excuses or tatics that Christian apologists come up with.
Dear god (if you'll pardon the expression...) - having to tell adults that, unless they live somewhere very odd, the dead do not rise from the grave, even in the Regency...
Matt summed it up in the beginning. The initial assumption is God expects every reader to be able to perfectly comprehend every passage in His book. God has perfect understanding we do not.
I had someone attempt to rectify "Where did King Josiah Die?" by claiming the two places mentioned which are 90 miles apart were part of some ancient yet hidden middle eastern metropolis.
Josiah (healing sun) was born at the winter solstice and we celebrate his birthday on Dec. 25. Isaiah (saving sun) like all the rest, are actually one sun. The firstborn son/sun is born at the summer solstice, exalts at the fall equinox and represents winter/hell/darkness; the secondborn son/sun (summer/light) is born at the winter solstice and exalts at the spring equinox. Summer =heaven/god/good and Winter = hell/satan/not good. Firstborn male (winter) is "killed, so that we can experience the second born sun as summer. See Milton Woolley's Hebrew Mythology.
Neat. But that has nothing to do with where Josiah DIED. 2 Kings gives two contradictory stories. Three if you count the promise that god said he would die peacefully instead of being run through with a sword and dying over the next few hours/days.
Josiah "died" at the age of 39. 3 + 9 = 12 = Josiah the sun made it through 12 months of the year or 12 tropical constellations. Chariots of Iron = winter. Weapons of iron or bronze = winter. Valley = winter, Egypt, Babylon and Samaria = winter. Pharaoh = winter solstice. Jerusalem above = summer solstice and Jerusalem below = winter solstice. Josiah and Jesus are the same sun.
A very hard thing I've had to learn to do was to stop praying. I was so damn brainwashed smh. I feel great not having to pray to a ghost in the sky that I've never seen or heard. It's amazing how much we chart our lives based on our prayers. I remember all of the times I would plead with "god", asking him to help me in various areas in my life. Nothing ever really changed. I had no reason to believe that my prayers were producing results. Prayer is so dangerous and quite evil in my opinion because if you don't pray and something bad happens to you, oh you just forgot to pray is what people would say. You've been praying for a breakthrough in your life and it didn't happen? Oh well you just don't have enough faith, or maybe you did something wrong. How another human being can measure someone else faith is beyond me. If you do pray for something and it doesn't happen, oh god isn't on your schedule; just be patient. These are the clever and annoying ways that believers have of defending their god and shifting all of the blame on you. This is the same thing that self help gurus and life coaches do.
A issue I have with alot of apologetics is it's about explanations that sound possible, but are they plausible. Example being things like, "the geneologies for Jesus being one is mary one is John's." or things like that, wich has no scriptural basis, or even historical basis, other then there has to be a reason. It's something I bring up if it's contradictions between books, there is this belief by Christians that matthew and luke were talking about the same things and meant the same things, so contradictions must be harmonizable. Where to me I point out that these are two different people writing books near the same time, that probably never intended or expeted their book to be put along side another, or even knew about the other book. So the 10+ year gap between the births of Jesus, the different genelogies, the impossible timelines *jesus going to egypt at same time he was in jeruselum being circumcised." and such is because they both were writing the story as they knew it, not two perfect versions of the same story.
wolf wing, well, we can't prove they are all not plausible either, as plausibility is also very subjective. For example Herod asked the Magi when the "star" appeared, and he calculated that it couldn't be more than 2 years, that along tells you Joseph didn't flew to Egypt right away. However your idea that the authors didn't know their books were going to be together is exactly what most of us believe because that's something we can definitely assume with a lot of certainty.
The contradictions in Start Wars - did they prevent you from exposing your children to it? Have you nothing that makes you feel awe? Yes - you feel awe only when looking, like The Ancient Mariner, over the gunwale of the boat, into slimy, slithering, cthonian nature.
I love how Matt will actively go on tangents in his debates and videos about contradictions in the Bible but the one fkin video actually labeled “contradictions in the Bible” is 35 minutes of mental masterbation theoretically foreplaying us with “are you sure you want to know the contradictions? Why do you want to know the contradictions? Let’s be honest, the concept itself is a contradiction.”
It's interesting to know that there are problems with the Bible, which I used to think was a holy book. My main problem with the Bible is the miracles. When something is called a miracle, it's because an impossible thing happened. If it's impossible, then it clearly didn't happen. If it did happen, then it's not a miracle.
I am having "Matt Dillahunty Marathon", watching Atheist Experience, Atheist Debates", Matt's debates and appearances, basically everything on Matt. I thought I would never truly recover after Hitchens died, but when I discovered (recently) March. Dillahunty, I warmed up to him, and even he has completely different style, he is almost as good as Hitch.
Lol...I’m gonna pretend that the painting of trees behind Matt is his sneaky way of saying “I’ve seen the fuckin’ trees, damn it! It’s not evidence for god!”
Christians have had over 1000 years to examine their book and think of ways to defend it or at least think of ways to defend belief in God, in spite of that book. Matt has had only a few decades to defend non-belief and I must confess, he is doing very well. Good work Matt.
excellent video! I tend to steer away from contradictions within the text for that exact reason. I focus on the contradictions with reality...i.e. the falsehoods found in the text. the writers had a little understanding of how the world works, and it shines through books like the bible and koran.
Matt makes a good point about scribal error and the misunderstanding of words in past times which might not now have the same or even a different meaning. Just look at Shakespeare, and the meaning of words which; in his time, might have produced a great joke or a sexual pun, etc, but now are obscure to a modern audience. However, at least the knowledge of Shakespeare; and his plays , exist in their contemporary time frame, unlike the authors of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John!
In this case the "knowing" refers to the actual physical bible. That information is available to both sides of the question. He is saying the data itself is factually real as information. However the assertions that data makes may not be. So as far as knowing the same information as believers he is correct. Any conclusion from that information is subject to your own interpretation. It may be factual if there is empirical evidence to support your hypothesis. There is some data in the bible we know to be factual such as locations, named persons etc based on supporting empirical evidence. It is the metaphysical assertions in the bible that have no supporting empirical evidence.
I like Matt. please explain why anyone discusses this topic as if a human idea can be considered real and true. Scripture can ONLY be a representation.
Good points. This reminds me of your debate with Sye when he claimed that he could "refute" Islam by pointing out the apparent contradiction that the Koran says Allah's Word can't change when Muslims believe the Bible is corrupted. Whenever I think of that I remember he would never accept that same level of "argument" when I comes to the Old Testament. I doubt Sye has bothered to ask Muslim apologists about how they address that apparent contradiction...he's happy deluding himself into thinking he alone has found a defeater to the entire Muslim religion based on that one argument.
Another problem with theists claiming the bible is perfect because it came from their god is this: if we accept the fact that the bible was written by humans and didn't just magically appear, why can't their god just beam that information into our heads as he did for the biblical authors? Why inject middle-men for no reason other than to confuse the issue?
Sir, if YOU are an Atheist, I must say, I DID NOT recognize that at the beginning of your video. For, I AM a Theist & YET I was SO MOVED by your WISDOM. I have been a DEVOUT "theist" for ALL of my 59 years. HOWEVER, one of my BEST friends from Kindergarten was an "A"Theist. I have had some of my FONDEST Conversations with "A" Theist & some of my WORST most exasperating Conversations with other so-called "devout" Christians. The difference I've learned between Me & they is that I BELIEVE [FAITH] that My CONVICTIONS are just "that"...FAITH! I AM "HONEST" about that. And A Theist tend to be HONEST about THEIR own positions. BOTH of us LOVE "Reason" and can seek meet THERE tho coming from VERY DIFFERENT sometimes POLAR different perspectives. Whether Theist of NOT, I BELIEVE on of Humanities BIGGEST problems is NOT seeking Critical Thinking Skills. "A" theist tend to "reason" well, BUT have an EGO & PRIDE attachment, as if "reason" is NOT a QUEST for TRUTH, but a "competition" of One Up-man-ship. But in YOUR case, I found you quite by accident we I was not looking, & I was thinking about the Proverbs contradiction, I was NOT expecting you to address that ARTICULAR thing when I clicked on you, but there it was. I was kind of un-nerving, I considered it "sent by GOD" :) - How Ironic huh? By an man who turned out to be "A" Theist. I find people like yourself are some of the BEST candidate for REAL CHRIST Enlightenment of ALL. I hope that you will BY PASS, the Religion Dirty Waters & JOIN US in following HIM. Think about it: In the beginning was the LOGOS! And the LOGOS was "with" GOD & THE LOGOS was (= GOD). And isn't it TRUE that LOGOS is the Parent to LOGIC & REASON? CHRIST-FOLLOWING in *THE WAY* was ALWAYS meant to be LOGICAL & REASONABLE with "FAITH unto BELIEF-CONVICTION" being the Bridge between 1st. KNOWLEDGE and what comes next: UNDERSTANDING & ENLIGHTENMENT! I look into your Eyes, & I see such a SINCERE SPIRIT. I AM sure "THE SOURCE" of our BEING would LOVE to have YOU as a "BELIEVER"
Why would "god" send his only son to be killed if he can do anything why couldn't he just forgive sins without killing his kid , if God can do anything why would Jesus have to be born why cant he just create him like Adam and eve
Paul says, "God is not the author of confusion. " But in the story of the Tower of Babel, that is exactly God's role.
@@ianalan4367 Exactly.
@@ianalan4367 Very cool. Now: explain 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 and Mark 4:11-12 in terms of "god is not the author of confusion".
Wolf NZ Outdoors once again that is out of context 🤷♀️ You look foolish did you even read the complete chapter?
Wolf NZ Outdoors
“Again Jesus began to teach by the lake. The crowd that gathered around him was so large that he got into a boat and sat in it out on the lake, while all the people were along the shore at the water’s edge. 2 He taught them many things by parables, and in his teaching said: 3 “Listen! A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants, so that they did not bear grain. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil. It came up, grew and produced a crop, some multiplying thirty, some sixty, some a hundred times.”
9 Then Jesus said, “Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear.”
10 When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. 11 He told them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables 12 so that,
“‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,
and ever hearing but never understanding;
otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!’[a]”
13 Then Jesus said to them, “Don’t you understand this parable? How then will you understand any parable? 14 The farmer sows the word. 15 Some people are like seed along the path, where the word is sown. As soon as they hear it, Satan comes and takes away the word that was sown in them.”
Jesus is saying that things are said in parables to people who are not familiar with God’s word. Not because God doesn’t want them to understand but because “As soon as they hear it satan comes and takes away the word that was sown in them” Jesus is addressing a problem and not once did he say God was responsible for that problem.
@@kpatterson1619 So, who made the people? Is "satan" more powerful than "god"? And why did you not respond to the question about 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12?
Coming from a Christian background, this is one of the most honest videos regarding a very important debate. One hardly hears an opposing position being offered legitimate claims and grace. People on both sides should take notes.
Did you ever check William Lane Craig's videos on his channel? For example "Reasonable Faith". He refutes atheist arguments/reasonings there
@@ver-il6pc yes I have. I used to be a Christian after all. Craig deals more with an anti atheist position with his videos. I am not an atheist but an agnostic. I am open to the concept of a god or not any god. But the Bible and Christianity are falsifiable, incoherent, and full of contradictions with history, itself, theology, morality, and logic. I stopped wanting to defend christianity.
"Anyone who loves his father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me " Matthew 10:37
I really don't care much about contradictions in the Bible, although they are a good topic for an entertaining conversation. I actually care about doctrine; the excessive demands, the extortion, the intimidation, and the unguaranteed promises what makes me question faith since I was 10.
That passage is bad, but I really think the "take no thought for tomorrow." bit isn't given nearly enough attention. If every Christian decided to actually follow this millions would starve, possibly billions.
Its really damning evidence that Jesus was just like all the deluded apocalypse cults we see up to today, predicting the end times and then standing around looking confused and stupid when nothing happens and they've sold everything they own.
The Jehovah's Witnesses are a hilarious example of this, they started after one of these failed cults. The leader went around gathering followers, told them to sell everything they own and gather in some field for the rapture. Guess what happened? Nothing. What confuses me is that after this instead of calling the dumb-ass a false prophet and leaving to rebuild a life, they formed the Jehovah's Witnesses and went out gathering followers yet again. I think they learned enough to give up on specific predictions at least.
EXPLANATION - All the contradictions in the Bible 009 - Judas or the priests purchased the Field of Blood -
ua-cam.com/video/lZyXZCnwImg/v-deo.html
EXPLANATION - All the contradictions in the Bible 010 - Failed prophecy - the generation shall not pass -
ua-cam.com/video/y-KiDd5pCEQ/v-deo.html
Piesho Nais, read the entire book of Mathew, common sense tells you the center of his message is love. You can also understand with common sense that he often puts himself in a position where his identity itself is presented as love, he being one with God, and God being love. Now if you use a little bit of logic, substitute the word "Me" for the word "love". Now it says if you have preferences over love, then love is not in you, meaning love is always Universal and should never be specific, you need to love love first and only then the second rule can be fulfilled, which is to act on that love with others. Very straight forward stuff, it is not complicated at all. I feel a lot of people slept in literature class. The same thing goes for the Gospel of John when he talks about "the verb". People just need to go back to school and put more attention in class.
I care about the content, the truth. There is plenty of accurate scripture. Historically accurate. It basically says we live on a flat stationary plane with a firmament above. It's correct.
If god is all powerful, his book would be perfect, unless of course, he is an all powerful being with a sick sense of humour.
Gods a Kunte
well, it's a relatively modern phenomenon that the bible is the central aspect of christianity, and that god wrote it. for centuries, early christians thought that the keepers of christian truth were the church and its authorities, and the texts were merely useful tools that they alone knew how to properly interpret. this was also how judaism worked for the most part, and by the time of jesus "everybody knew" that, for example, the prohibition on boiling a goat in its mother's milk "really meant" that milk dishes should be kept separate from meat dishes (see: midrash)
although your point is valid as it pertains to american christians who worship the bible, and they are the christians who are the real pain in the arse for everybody
Let's SEE. If a book is good enough to SAVE you from an ETERNITY IN HELL it's "Perfect" to Save you. Don't sweat the details
@@joehinojosa8314 The details are pretty important! The existence of hell to start with. Enjoy this one precious life, use it for good, don't waste it hoping for another.
@@freedpeeb Mr Peeb, I must remain Open minded and admit I could be WRONG. However you are AWARE that being "open minded" is a TWO Way thoroughfare. 🛣️
To the scribal error excuse: so, god is so sloppy that he never bothered to step in to correct mistakes in what's supposedly his *most important message* to his creations?
If I make a typo in a friggin' UA-cam post, I go back and fix it.
And, the last time I checked, I wasn't even a perfect, omnipotent being...
OR - maybe he's just a dick head and doesn't give a shit about us. OR - he's an incompetent boob. OR - both.
The omnipotent creator of the universe *needs* a scribe to write a book for him. Think about that.
Kind of demonstrates what a whining egotistical needing little shit God actually is doesn't it?
Imagine if the Bible came out today. Or if Jesus was a youtuber... just imagine the comment section.
Visualize...
Visualize...
You’re welcome. You now have limitless entertainment.
Shit guys maybe god doesn't exist after all 🤔
Claiming that a perfect being sent you an imperfect message seems to be the first contradiction most Christians start with.
@@ianalan4367 Every Christian who makes excuses for the atrocities of the Bible. On slavery for example, they often say, "but that was the old testament" and "Not everything in the Bible was actually God talking.That part was just written in there by the religious leaders of the time."
@@ianalan4367 Who said "every Christian says"? Reality is usually not bipolar extremes. Charity is also necessary if you want a rational conversation.
@@ianalan4367 Learn how to read and check it again. You are strawmanning.
@@ianalan4367 Enjoy fun at the kids table.
@@ianalan4367 When he said "every Christian", he meant "each" Christian.
As in "Each Christian who makes excuses for the atrocities of the Bible"
I really like that painting of the trees in fall colors on the wall. It's really quite beautiful.
Whenever I listen to Matt D., I come away with a far better understanding of the subject matter at hand. He has an amazing talent as an educator. Keep up the good work, lot's people NEED your education!
Thank you for your contributions to society, Matt!! Keep it up
I like how you touched on people with mental health struggles reading the Bible. One of the many things that made me start “doubting” was mental illness. Some people struggle with actual paranoia, they cannot trust, they cannot feel safe, they cannot differentiate reality....there are so many mental illnesses that would literally make it impossible for some people to be “saved”! Yet they can’t help it if they have poor mental health or an illness, so how evil would that be! Like you say- if god exists, then he is a thug!!! Sadistic 🤢
The whole problem with apologists asserting that errors or misunderstandings in the bible are due to scribal error or differences in modern interpretation is that by what basis do they determine what is correct and what is not. Is there a separate book that holds the rules of interpretation, a formula for sussing out the truth? There is no basis and without basis you must conclude that none of the bible is reliable.
interesting points
Laura They have a special "Biblical Translation Machine". It's similar to the one the Trump apologists have for him. Funny thing is, is that there are as many different models of that BTM as there are xtians.
"r differences in modern interpretation is that by what basis do they determine what is correct and what is not"
exactly, that's why you have no basis for what is a contradiction....comversation finished.
And none of it is.
That's not true at all, you can't be dead and alive at the same time can you?
Over 200 direct contradictions in the Bible, they could have used a good editor at the bare minimum.
Yes Matt, thanks for bringing this up, I've often fallen into that trap (when debating with Christians) of just bringing up seemingly obvious self-contradictions within the Bible, without really making sure that they definitely ARE without any REASONABLE way to reconcile the two or more statements that appear in conflict with one and other, this is what makes the whole process of debating as an atheist with theists such a freaking minefield that you have to walk with extreme care in, because we can end up stepping right onto something in a debate that we were not prepared to be on when we don't check where we are going and before we know where we are, they will have us looking like we haven't done our homework, which of course, many of them will love, because it strengthens their position in their eyes when a non-believer makes themselves look like someone that hasn't read the Bible properly, they will then probably come out with something like "aha....well it's no wonder you don't see God and hear him talking to you....you haven't been studying his word...get in that word brother..then God will talk to you", that's what I used to get Lol.
Sadly I was one of the few born into a family and community that one hundred percent believes everything in the Bible is correct down to the grammar. I also just came out to my family as a lesbian and that I don’t believe the Bible is accurate. It’s been a struggle. The main thing is that they would rather have a depressed daughter who lied about her feelings/beliefs than to even challenge their own beliefs and think about them. That is what hurts the most I think. They chose their religion over me.
Sarah Poynter im so sorry. Stay strong. You’re worth so much more than that. It’s shoved into our heads before we can even read and write. It’s not all their fault. Try to kindly show them logic, if it doesn’t work it doesn’t work, but at least you tried. I’m about in the same boat. The brainwashing was VERY effective.
Chris Garland yup I was brainwashed too. I was only free until I really looked at the Bible. I mean I read the whole bible before and knew about those problematic verses (like God ordering them to kill everyone including the kids) but just would gloss over them and repeat what was told to me. When I read it again I finally was honest with myself that what I was told wasn’t enough to justify those terrible things in the Bible/
Forcing the plethora of shapes (the nuance of human proclivities) into limited "pigeon holes". No! No! bad dog! No cookie for you!
I see this comment is a year old. I hope you've been well.
@@J05TI wow it’s been a year! I’m good now. My parents still don’t accept it but they haven’t talked about it with me since. It’s like they pretend they still don’t know. But now I have a girlfriend and we are renting a place together. Thankfully I got out of that house.
Thank you Matt. This is a most helpful little talk that you have cobbled together here. It helps this old non-believer no end!
Apologetics is based on logical fallacies, the most common of which is reliance on the claim of magic.
Apologetics appears to be largely built on dishonesty. Or rather I have yet to find any apologetic position that when challenged wasn't at least defended dishonestly. But yes, absolutely, logical fallacies are also used comprehensively, and often in a way as to be hidden or obscured. They tend to have a great liking for argument from ignorance/incredulity (often being a god of the gaps fallacy too boot), and they are absolutely in love with special pleading and circular arguments.
When one finally does manage to get to the basis, which often takes far too long, and if one manages it at all, it invariably will come down to merely faith. Though they often will do virtually anything not to have to admit it outright, and will attempt to couch it in softer terms or simply assert that "you too have faith, so there"! And then employ the equivocation around the term.
How much faith is needed not to believe in leprechauns?
Let's agree you're absolutely correct. That will prove out in the comments.
Let's get back to the gist of the matter in the OP.
How will you move the thinking of the believer to more reasonable and firm ground?
That's not a logical fallacy. It's a factual error.
ya, "reliance on the claim of magic" isn't in itself a logical fallacy. You can always get someone to explain more about their "reliance" on magic, how they know magic exists, how they would test for it, etc. and maybe find some fallacies in their reasoning behind such claims, but the act of relying on the claim of magic isn't inherently fallacious, until reasoning, that can be analyzed, is providing to substantiate that claim.
Thank you so much, Matt. This has really helped me grow and think.
Ken Ham begins every speech by saying "My starting point is believing the bible is the accurate word of god"
wait, if thats your premise, then you know nothing about logic arguments. Any conclusion would be shakily built upon that premise.
This is of course a logic fallacy
I agree with you. No wonder you believe in God if you believe the Bible is totally accurate. If you believed that the Harry Potter books is totally accurate representations of the real world, then magic exists. I don't have perfect recollection of all the books, but I don't remember J K Rowling stating within any of the books that it's fiction, so therefore it must be true, right?
Believing the big bang is a truth can be used when the same logic is applied.
Another great video! Even years later its still relevant and inspiring!
That's fair. I study a lot of languages, plus trained to be a writer, so I'm used to reading between the lines & thinking about how others use language. I forget that others really don't think that much about such things, though. I get in trouble with that a lot too- constantly writing things that go right over peoples' heads. lol
I think it's important to note that if there can be "scribal errors" that result in clear contradictions or other issues, it also implies that there could be fundamental scribal misunderstandings we have no way of discerning, calling, potentially, the entire concept of the holy text into question. I can catch an obvious contradictions or grammatically/typographical error... but I couldn't possibly catch the scribe interpreting something so vastly different from its original form that it isn't even the same thing anymore.
I can name a contradiction in the new testament: "universal reconciliation" vs. "everlasting fire and eternal punishment." :)
My favorite Bible contradictions come from the historical accounts of the Samuels and Kings as compared to the Chronicles. Battles where one account gives a figure for casualties and another gives a wildly different number for the same battle.
There is not one single historical death in the bible.
That falls under scribal error and is honestly pretty weak. Your opponent has to accept that the Bible is completely inerrant and has not been changed.
@@Tyrantlizardking105 I come out of a cult background where we believed in inerrancy.
@@Tyrantlizardking105 I wonder why these differences haven't been reconciled? Hasn't someone figured out which of the two figures in this case are correct and changed them both to be the same?
I believe you made a minor mistake around the 18:00 mark. you say the bible mentions plants were created before light. I think you might mean plants were created before the SUN. light was created fist. although the fact that there's night and day before sun, moon and stars is also pretty strange.
stupidAgeverificatio I wasn't saying that the Bible does say this, exactly...I was using an example of something that 'might' be the case. But we'll address this when we actually take a look at the order of creation. It could easily be viewed as me misspeaking (and I wish I'd have said it differently), so thanks for the note!
Matt Dillahunty
So basically you're stating, people's interpretation of the bible are contradictory. The bible has contradiction here and there, but people's beliefs are indifferent from their own book or they just never read it.
The timing of this video is perfect. I'm going to a bible study session this week. So many questions to address surrounding contradictions. Thanks for posting this and all your other videos Matt! I would love to open a dialogue with you if you're willing and able. I come from a "spiritual recovery" background and would love to hear your input on the things I've learned within this program. Hope to hear from you!
Either way it says land plants were created before marine animals, which we know is false. It also puts birds before land animals, but since we now know birds descended from dinosaurs (and in particular, therapods), that too is false. Marine mammals did not precede land animals either.
That there was light before the Sun is no problem at all, since that is how it was in The Real Universe™. The CMB, for instance, comes from a time long before there were any stars.
I think to many Christians, even scribal errors are a problem because Jesus said in Matthew 5:18 that "not one jot or one tittle will pass from the law until it all has been fulfilled." The way it was explained to me is that the jot and tittle are little extra pieces of a letter like the dot on an 'i' or the cross on a 't'. If not even a jot or tittle are going to be lost, then how are there whole sections that we aren't sure if they're original or not (like the end of Mark)?
Thank you for making your content about clarity rather than hate or ridicule. I feel like more people should be okay being skeptical about faith without resorting to the same shaming tactics or threats of punishment that made them skeptical to begin with.
This is really amazing - thanks Matt!
John 18:20-23 ESV Jesus says "I have spoken openly to the world... I have said nothing in secret."
Mark 4:11-12 ESV Jesus says "The secret of the kingdom of god has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that, 'They may be... ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!' "
what?
sounds like b.s. to me.
Like he said in the video what is the context of these verses
@@oopsiepoopsie2898 in the first context it is said that Jesus said nothing in secret. In the second context Jesus says he has secrets for certain individuals.
somewhat informed but that might now be the actual context. Kinda like when the Bible says gods anger isn’t forever and it also say it is forever. But it’s talking about two different things
I'm not an Atheist, but I Sware this man makes a lot of sense.
I'm just curious, what is the main reason u r not an atheist?
I was a Christian and he really really makes sense to me.
There are some contradictions though between the Gospels about very basic things, like the events of the resurrection, etc . . . I do think this matters because it makes it more clear that it is written by different people rather than something divine.
Why would God create lucifer knowing he would betray him
Why don't the all-powerful god fix his clearly flawed holy word? Why should we be left with so much confusion or is this another "test"?
Exactly. You don’t give a flawed command to a flawed machine you know will interpret it wrong, and then get upset when something unexpected happens. We’re too smart for that and we ARE the flawed machines, so what’s God’s excuse?
Discussing scripture is akin to discussing the social structure of leprechauns. The basal claim inherent in the scriptures hasn't been demonstrated to be valid: show that a god exists, then we can chat about what it wants and why we should care about what it wants.
Naturally. Obviously. We're just trying to discredit their scripture BECAUSE THEY STILL BELIEVE IT. It's a step in the right direction and it HELPED ME TO ATHEISM. So stop being so damn condescending.
Do you mean I can't just yell "You're wrong, and also stupid, I win!"?
Sadly not, would only increase there defensive position that the bible is gods word
Excellent video!.
Matt has found the perfect format for his expert knowledge and understanding of scripture.
Your the best atheist. Hands down.
I really do my best to avoid discussing scripture. discussions about religion are is useful as discussions about which superhero is best.
Batman, duh!
Spider-Man, duh!!!
... in a world where people believe in superheros and your argument is "none of em u dolts."
silver surfer
Excellent point! I've actually had third-party observers confirm that my otherwise pointless debates _did_ exactly as you say. I didn't change my "opponent's" mind, but I evidently helped some observers to make up their own...as can we all.
Do you have like a workbook I can read and practice with?
"Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will say both no and yes."
Andrew Buschert 😀🤠😂 who are these elves ?
@@therighteousone100 It's a Lord of the Rings quote
Andrew Buschert the elves sounds like many things and people in this world.
Sometimes and maybe... the future through Maya's veil of illusion..
Scribe errors are not a good defense for a perfect God. If he moved the hand that originally wrote it perfectly, why would he then allow some scribe to screw it up? What...to much effort for an all powerful God?
Interesting thoughts. I recently had a discussion with someone and I went with the angle that God basically set up humanity for original sin, being omniscient and putting the tree in the Garden of Eden anyway. And he came back with, admitting, yeah, he thinks God planned the Fall of Man, and that was perfectly fine to him and not at all analogous to an abusive husband. It was not at all what I expected, and I did have to regroup my angle of attack.
Long story short, we did have a productive discussion for awhile after that point. He was actually a pastor who had a podcast, wanted me to go on it, in the end I declined though. Mainly because he said several things that made me think he was a Presupper, and he complained several times about my responses of putting words in his mouth.. Then it turned out... he admitted he was a presupper. So he was attacking me for "falsely" accusing him of being something, he actually was. I don't engage with presuppers at least not beyond mockery or halfhearted attempts and thats largely because I've had discussions like yours with Sye Ten and its just a waste of time. So at that point, I cut him off and told him I'd never go on his podcast because of his dishonesty.
The tree in garden was a test, God allows the enemy to tempt you so that you can decide whether you will do good or evil. God told them not to eat from that tree, when the enemy does it he tells you to do it
@@littlebittykittytamityispr1974 Test for who? How were Adam and Eve to REALISTICALLY pass it, and what the blazes has it to do with us? The moment the world 'fell' and we became 'natural men', Romans 1:18 NO LONGER realistically applied, to the letter, anymore. It was invalid.
And which Christianity, do you mean? It seems to schism, a fair bit.
Also, no duh, Christians are not all perfect - even Augustine, Luther, Gregory XIII, Paul III and more, or Calvin. Or Torquemada.
How far were they entitled or allowed to go, in their more infamous mistakes? Since we, as 'spiritually dead' or 'natural men' people, are not all able to EQUALLY apply free will - particularly in a hierarchy, post Romans 13:1 and Colossians 1:16. Or post Isaiah 45:7?
And who designs, a suicidally prideful arch angel; or many ignorant, gullible, lesser angels - and what right, have they, to be here, or keep powers?
With Eve told, nothing, of substance about them? Or wider stakes, to us.
Standard reply, of mine, so far. And Satan certainly had free will, when he REVISITED heaven to besmirch Job. Who CARES what his irrational, suicidally prideful view of that topic, was, then?
I've heard many times that God speaks to each individual through the bible. He supposedly tells them each what they need to hear. To me that's just an excuse for everyone having their own perspective and understanding.
Well, the Word of God is meant to be the story of redemption for our sins. It's not something one opens up first thing in the morning, goes to a random page and puts their finger at a specific verse and then attempts to apply it to some fashion or issue they may happen to have that very day. It's bigger than that. It's to humble ones self in realizing we are a sinner, in need of a savior and God's love that He gave us that through Jesus.
@@dyerseve07 it’s a bullshit book. The end.
@@myles5158 you've convinced me.
Elephant in the room: Why didnt Jesus come at a time when we could film the sermon on the Mount? Furthermore why didnt Jesus just write the Bible?
Having an illiterate savior sullies the image of a perfect being just a little. Better to entrust fallible hoomans with the most important task because reasons.
By the words of Jesus “blessed are those who see and believe but even more blessed are those who believe and not see”
If you cannot believe now, you would not believe even if you saw a film of the time of Jesus Christ.
The firmament is a direct contradiction to reality.
My favorite contradiction, and one that also speaks of Gods ability to communicate with us via text. NKJV 1 Corinthians 14:33 " For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace." NKJV Genesis 11:7 "Come, and let Us go down and there confuse their language." Genesis 11:9 "Therefore its name is called Babel, because there the LORD confused the language of all the earth."
Matt, have you thought of making the audio of Atheist Debates videos available by podcast? I'm not sure if this is already done on Patreon or elsewhere; but if not, putting it on Pocket Casts and other feeds/services would make it convenient for those who listen while driving.
Also, thank you for the videos, debates, lectures, TAE episodes, and all of the other work you do.
So much to think about: thank you
Awesome video...
When god first said, "let there be...", what language was he speaking?
It was the same language as the person who asserted it was said.
Here is a clue for you. Try not to anthropomorphize God so much.
Bill, what a stupid and condescending reply.
As this deity has failed to communicate clearly with its own creation, what do you propose is an authentic solution? Telling what it is not, is not telling us what it is, nor how you know that.
If you are proposing there was no language or that the idea of language is a misunderstanding of the intended message, why bother to say anything at all?
What is the purpose of stating something that cannot be tested or authenticated?
What is the basis upon which you think meaning can be made of this statement at all?
Once you have waded through all the ambiguities required to respond to any of those questions, you then have to tell us how you know any of your proposed solutions are uniquely accurate ones.
If you had the wherewith all to look at these texts independently of your belief, you would realise how flawed they are with regards to communicating anything.
They can though be easily seen as ancient human attempts at describing reality. They are consistent with an author who knows nothing but what an unassisted human could experience. One who knows nothing of the scale or complexity of the universe, nor the breadth and patterns of life.
Bungalo Bill, so then, what is your definition of a god?
Your whole cloth misrepresentations are not an argument against anything.
If you have any "real" contradictions, post them below. Bonus points if they're in the same book. I'll start:
*Deuteronomy 5;8-9* _NIV_
*8* _“You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below._ *9* _You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the lord your god, am a jealous god, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,_
*Deuteronomy 24;16* _NIV_
*16* _Parents are not to be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their parents; each will die for their own sin._
That one is awesome.
Why can't the book say exactly what it mean.?
Hey dont dis my 8 legged budgie !!!!
All I could think of is flying spiders. Yikes
My parents believe the bible is completely error free and nothing I can show them will change their minds....they just shrug it off and ignore it...they don't care about rationality only keeping their religion in their own perfect cocoon.....any advice on how to try to reason with them or is it impossible using reason with people who don't care about reason?
Find an area where they do care about reason, divorced from the bible and pull that reasoning they use there back into the biblical discussion.
don't test your parents about bible. Be a human as possible. Give them space to reflect without hitting their emotions which where it is coming from. Never go straight as religion, just come around that my give food for thoughts. If they will turn around partially then they will eventually, if not, then it is not and useless to try to contradict them because they may have invested a lot: memories, cultural identity and many other details.
This may sound cold but... their beliefs will die with them, and hopefully, reason will continue with you.
My mom is religious, my dad not so much but I don't really talk about it with them, hell, they may not even know I'm atheist lol.
You will most likely fail to undo decades of religious indoctrination on your parents so it's better just to leave them be, however, when you're near children make sure you plant some doubts on them because if you don't, the religious cancer will never die off, kid's brains are like 2 part epoxy, act soon and you can make it any shape you want (which is why religions need children to continue the bullshit) wait some time and you're going to have a hard time, which is what happens to adults who have been believers of the religious bullshit for decades, it's almost impossible to change their minds.
Kids need education not indoctrination, so make sure you do that if you can.
Gordon Freeman In my part, it is not big issue, but there is cultural things going on. I grew up, what is know former Communist Block, where religion retreated so much that mostly would never be able to control masses. My kids or others are plagued by other damaging mentality - capitalism - which is destroying environment and balance of rationality. It is, indeed, temporary now, of cause. But there is still this human laziness in searching truth. They tend to shift burden of thinking into deities or even aliens saviours of any forms as long as entertain themselves with garbages. People still holding to this pattern of religious traditional way of thinking or patterns that seems to inherited although grip of old religion irrelevant.
Gordon Freeman In my part, it is not big issue, but there is cultural things going on. I grew up, what is know former Communist Block, where religion retreated so much that mostly would never be able to control masses. My kids or others are plagued by other damaging mentality - capitalism - which is destroying environment and balance of rationality. It is, indeed, temporary now, of cause. But there is still this human laziness in searching truth. They tend to shift burden of thinking into deities or even aliens saviours of any forms as long as entertain themselves with garbages. People still holding to this pattern of religious traditional way of thinking or patterns that seems to inherited although grip of old religion irrelevant.
If Jesus was fully human while on Earth and as the Bible claims, then he could not have been inerrant or perfect as the Bible asserts.
Why did God prepare hell for people if he desperately wanted for all people to love and obey him? Since he did make hell, that proves he intended to use it for people; ie, had to create unbelievers; else he'd not have made hell!
And how come an almighty God does not get what he so badly desires; such all people to accept and love him?
1. That's true.
2. That is because most Christians don't follow what the Bible says about Hell. According to Revelations, no one goes to Hell until after Judgement Day. Most Christians think Hell is already there, wherever it's supposed to be in Creation.
3. Because he's a creation of flawed human beings from the Bronze Age.
Hell is winter, where we walk with Satan. Heaven is summer, where we walk with god. Satan and god are twins. The religious year starts with the spring equinox/passover of sun from hell to heaven. Those in the southern hemisphere must walk on their heads in order to experience heaven (our summer where year is divided between summer and winter).
GERALD MCFARLIN
What about places that don't have winter or seasons?
The fairy tale bible and talmuds were written in Rome, Italy; which does have the separate seasons. The Roman god Jupiter was kidnapped and renamed Yahveh. There are different breakouts of the year in the holey bible. Noah (Saturn) had three sons (seasons). Shem/Pluto = winter, Japhet/Neptune = spring and Ham/Jupiter = summer. Some twin breakouts are Lot/winter an Abraham/summer. Ishmael/winter and Isaac/summer. Esau/winter and Jacob/summer. Anubis/winter and Horus/summer. John the Baptizer/winter and Jesus/summer. God (Jupiter/summer sun) and Satan (Saturn/winter sun) are one. The moon and 5 nearest planets are equated with the sun to some degree. The 7 candlle sticks are the 7 Elohim of the O.T. and symbol the divisions of the year into 7 months summer and 5 months winter. The first of the 5 terrible months of winter is id with the scorpion in Scorpio. (book of rev.). One needs to have zodiacs keyed to the age of Taurus and Aries, when reading the bible. The biblical (religious) year starts with the spring equinox.
It always pisses off bible thumpers when I meantion that Ham is Jupiter and is the senior god of the O.T.
+Bob Balkas. check out Woolley's book.
archive.org/details/hebrewmythology00wool
Terah (Earth/Egyptian god Seb/Saturn) had three sons; Nahor II (snorter) was winter, Abram was Spring and Haran was summer. The elevation of Abram to Abraham marks the div. of the year into winter and summer.
New to the channel, you are an exceptionally eloquent speaker and your insights have given me thinking material for days. I still feel woefully under-equipped to flourish in a debate setting but hopefully absorbing these talking points will give me a starting point.
Kat Wheeler, debating theists? A very handy tip I employ, promoted by Matt, is to focus on only 1 or 2 strong, lead points, or rebuttal questions. Listing a lengthy, multitude of points will allow your theist apologist to take aim at the weakest point... I used to write big multi paragraph replies only to have the theist ignore 90% of my argument and focus on what they can manage to defend - simplify and strengthen, it’ll save you time and your wits. It’s all about pinning them on a strong point, even though there’s usually a multitude of points to scrutinise and question. Good luck! Keep your arguments reason based and relative to reality
I got into a discussion not to long ago where I assumed the other fellow believed that the bible has been unchanged since its inception. I will certainly try to remember the point no one alive today has access to the true originals. I"m also guilty of seeking out contradiction lists to use as ammo without reading the passages thoroughly myself. Thanks for this video!
well,my issue (one of many) has always been that god seems to give the devil free reign on earth to do whatever. So if even the first translation were perfect, then the second translation could've been meddled with by the devil. And then God would hold us accountable for knowing the truth. Maybe I didn't phrase this completely properly. But ANYONE can write a book. If God really wanted people to know, then wouldn't he give us something that looks so unique that it's unmistakable that it's from God? I don't know, I'm just wishing I didn't even have to deal with religious people sometimes lol. I just enjoy life (most times)
Thanks Matt for a well done video. Being born into a Christian family I like to question why I believe what I believe. Is it something that believe or is it what my environment has taught me to think. I appreciate Matt type of atheism that does not put down or demean those of opposite thought. Which is more than I can say for most people of either side. At the end of the day my belief in God is stronger because I see what the skeptic offers as solutions to our problems and the hope they offer for human kind. A few years of hopefully pain free living, a few years of financial security and a few years hopefully of political peace. I say hopefully because it all depends if your born in these conditions. You may be the unlucky soul born into that exact opposite. Into poverty, political turmoil etc. then the skeptic doesn't have any hope to offer. God on the other hand offers hope regardless of life circumstances. I do disagree with Matt. God doesn't make it confusing or hard to know him. He tells us clearly in the Bible how to know and see God. Matt5:8 "blessed are the pure in heart for they will see God." Could it be our sin that keeps us from seeing God? And many of you love your sin more than God. The creation proclaims the glory of God. The Bible tells how to see God. How much clearer does it need to be. Don't blame your lack of knowing if there is a God on God not showing himself when you have not followed Gods directive on knowing Him. That's a you problem.
Interesting video. I would encourage every atheist to read the Bible. Especially the whole New Testament.
There are lots of psychedelics in both the New and Old Testesments.
Kali Southpaw touché! So true.
And what would you "encourage" these Atheists do - those who have read and understood the Bible many times, have been fervent evangelising pastors and have now left the church and believe that all religion is a crock?
Exactly!!!!
Why not the Old Testament? Is that because it endorses slavery, ghost sex, talking donkeys, child sacrifice, and more?
I think there's an even better kind of contradiction to point out than statements which conflict with observations about reality in general. Namely, instructions that no one takes seriously.
When it comes to the Bible, we all know the big hits. Not mixing fabrics, not eating shellfish, etc. You'd be hard-pressed to find a Christian who's never worn mixed fabrics, for example, and they would know it, too.
Reality in general can be denied. The age of the Earth, evolution, any given piece of history, apologists can fool people about that kind of stuff, but those same people are perfect witnesses to their own life. They know for certain that they don't follow at least some of the Bible's instructions. Or they will, when those instructions are brought up.
Those aren't contradictions. And some of those are doctrinally changed later.
I wouldn’t ordinarily call them contradictions either, but I went with the way that word is used in this video. There are certain instructions that Christians, for example, are supposedly scripturally obligated to follow, but they don’t follow them, and yet they’re obviously still Christians. So the idea that Christians must follow those instructions is contradicted by observations about reality, and is therefore a contradiction in the sense that this video uses that word.
@lightningfirst689 you're right. Most Christians don't follow 50% of Jesus's teachings because they just can't be followed in this modern times. Even some of Paul's teachings aren't followed.
The most common responses are: "these were meant for the people at that time only" or "It just shows how imperfect we are and how much we need jesus".
This is by far my favorite video that you have produced. Thanks, Matt and all involved.
William Lane Craig has refuted many atheist arguments
you have to read the original writings before you give the verdict! 5 blind men and the elephant storey should give you some insight.
We don’t have any “original” copies, so that’s not possible.
We don't have the original writings, they probably don't even exist anymore and have probably been lost for over 1000 years.
Matt, I don't care whether or not there are contradictions in the Bible, and you mentioned why.
In very general terms, the Christian God is an all-powerful (or "maximally powerful"), all-knowing being who... wants us to do some things and not do others. (Again, I''m speaking in general terms, because it's not important for this argument what those things are.) Every Christian I've ever known says that God wants us to believe in him.
And yet, less than one-third of all human beings even believe that their god _exists_. Now, OK, if you say that Muslims and Jews worship the same god (leaving out Jesus, of course), that makes a majority, but barely (55%). But even _I_ could convince people that I exist, and I'm not an all-powerful god.
How inept could a god be that he can't even get a consensus around the basic question of his existence, when that's supposedly what he really _wants_? Who cares if there are contradictions in the Bible as long as there's a contradiction _this_ big?
But there's more than that. According to believers, this god wants us, very basically, to do some things and not do others. Indeed, in almost every case, they think that he's... ultimately responsible for a guide book to tell us what those things are. But even Christians who agree on which book it is can't agree about much of anything else. Again, how inept can their god be?
Note that, if you're going to lump Christians, Muslims, and Jews together in the first part of this (the number of human beings who even believe that this god _exists_), then you have to accept that they don't even agree on which book it is that's their holy instruction manual.
If not, well, the much smaller minority who agree on which book it is still can't agree on what it means. That means that this all-powerful, all-knowing Creator of the Universe is also the world's worst communicator. Even his own _worshipers_ can't agree among _themselves_. What are a few contradictions alongside this glaring problem?
What's _in_ the Bible doesn't matter much to me, alongside the fact that Christians can't even agree among themselves about what it means.
But there is one final point about that. If Christians don't believe that the Bible is literally true in every particular (and relatively few are so clueless that they do think so), then we agree that the Bible contains both fact and fiction. (Metaphors are still fiction. Teaching stories are still fiction, if they're not literally true.)
Of course, you can say the same thing about the Harry Potter books or the Spiderman comics (London and New York City _do_ exist). But in this case, the only question is how we distinguish between what we have good reason to think is literally true and what we don't.
If the Bible contradicts itself, then that's clearly not a literally true part of the book. But what is? Without good evidence, we don't have a good reason to believe the vast majority of it.
Anyway, thanks for the video. It was excellent, as always.
Bill Garthright When the Book Of Acts is read we learn how the birth of the church began. The apostles taught Jesus' teachings and commandments to the new converts. So church practice and bible application are universal amongst the church.
Matt Black
The Book of Acts was written long after-the-fact by an anonymous author trying to persuade other people that his own particular religious beliefs were true.
You wouldn't just assume that it's true if this were any other religion, because it's obvious that the author - whoever he was - had reason to push his own interpretation of his own religion. You don't normally accept religious propaganda uncritically unless it happens to be the particular religion you were taught as a child.
In this particular case, as Wikipedia puts it, "Luke-Acts is an attempt to answer a theological problem, namely how the Messiah of the Jews came to have an overwhelmingly non-Jewish church."
Luke and Acts, like the other books of the Bible (including the known forgeries pretending to have been written by Paul), were written with religious intent. Again, people would remember that if it were any other religion but their own.
Besides,... what does this have to do with my comment? You wrote this as a reply to me, but you didn't actually address anything I said. Or you didn't seem to, at least. Perhaps I misunderstood the point of your comment?
Bill Garthright You were saying that the church does not follow it's own teachings. I'm not caucasian i'm native american natives don't deny the existence of the Creator.
Matt Black
I don't care if you're a _Martian_. If you believe in a "Creator," where's your evidence?
And if you don't have good evidence backing up your belief, why believe it?
_You were saying that the church does not follow it's own teachings._
Huh? Maybe you should read my initial comment again,... more slowly.
Bill Garthright Truth presupposes God how do you get truth without God?
I believe in Allah-gators!
TheMighty Chabunga 😂😀😂😀
I'm a huge fan
Man! This stuff is so interesting and much is explained from this video. I may be in the minority, as I grew-up in the Protestant part of Christianity and a minority denomination. Of course, today I'm still trying to sort it all out, as I do not claim to be an unbeliever or believer currently. I will say this, how I was taught and how those "Christians" around me behaved and instructed about the Bible, there was just a greater emphasis on spirituality vs scientificness than may be many Christian denominations. In other words, here's one example when reading individually, as well as, hearing through preaching/teaching the creation account in Genesis. There was never an emphasis on how the earth and everything in the earth actually came into being, it was always on the greatness of God and God's omnipotents, omniscients, and omnipresence kind of thing.
The answer to the question of 29:15 is found in 1tim 3:15
Some additional resources that compliment Matt's video:
1. bibviz.com/
2. skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/number.html
Good grief! If people are going to argue about the two creation stories being in conflict at least don't incorrectly claim it is chapter 1 vs chapter 2. The first creation story is Gen 1:1 - 2:4a & the second is 2:4b - 3:24.
Your content is always outstanding.
Matthew 13:10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”
11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables:
“Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
Most contraditions are in fact contradictions, within the same text. You can offer an explanation to try to save many of them, but to actually save the contradiction you have to provide evidence that your explanation is in fact true. Until you can provide that, the contradiction obviously holds. If not, you are claiming to know something without evidence.
can anyone here realize that space does not exist. it's only water and electric lights.
The problem is, Matt, Christians believe "all scripture" is inspired by god. That's what their bible says. And, that being the case, they believe that the words are perfectly stated, just as god intended. And, so, it's pointless for some Christians to come up with this idea of "human error" in the translation. It is just one of the excuses or tatics that Christian apologists come up with.
Dear god (if you'll pardon the expression...) - having to tell adults that, unless they live somewhere very odd, the dead do not rise from the grave, even in the Regency...
I keep seeing people say that man shall not lay with another man was misinterpreted and actually refers to homosexuality. What are y'all's thoughts
Matt summed it up in the beginning. The initial assumption is God expects every reader to be able to perfectly comprehend every passage in His book. God has perfect understanding we do not.
I had someone attempt to rectify "Where did King Josiah Die?" by claiming the two places mentioned which are 90 miles apart were part of some ancient yet hidden middle eastern metropolis.
Josiah (healing sun) was born at the winter solstice and we celebrate his birthday on Dec. 25. Isaiah (saving sun) like all the rest, are actually one sun. The firstborn son/sun is born at the summer solstice, exalts at the fall equinox and represents winter/hell/darkness; the secondborn son/sun (summer/light) is born at the winter solstice and exalts at the spring equinox. Summer =heaven/god/good and Winter = hell/satan/not good. Firstborn male (winter) is "killed, so that we can experience the second born sun as summer. See Milton Woolley's Hebrew Mythology.
Neat. But that has nothing to do with where Josiah DIED. 2 Kings gives two contradictory stories. Three if you count the promise that god said he would die peacefully instead of being run through with a sword and dying over the next few hours/days.
Josisah never died, check out Woolley's book.
archive.org/details/hebrewmythology00wool
Josiah "died" at the age of 39. 3 + 9 = 12 = Josiah the sun made it through 12 months of the year or 12 tropical constellations. Chariots of Iron = winter. Weapons of iron or bronze = winter. Valley = winter, Egypt, Babylon and Samaria = winter. Pharaoh = winter solstice. Jerusalem above = summer solstice and Jerusalem below = winter solstice. Josiah and Jesus are the same sun.
Gerald McFarlin Jesus Christ. Someone liked zeitgeist the movie. Next do the one about the moon landing.
That is not a muddled mess, that is perfect logic "always be ready to give a REASON for your BELIEF!" It is NOT blind faith.
James G the fool doesn't see his ways as foolish.
A belief is not a reason.
A very hard thing I've had to learn to do was to stop praying. I was so damn brainwashed smh. I feel great not having to pray to a ghost in the sky that I've never seen or heard. It's amazing how much we chart our lives based on our prayers. I remember all of the times I would plead with "god", asking him to help me in various areas in my life. Nothing ever really changed. I had no reason to believe that my prayers were producing results. Prayer is so dangerous and quite evil in my opinion because if you don't pray and something bad happens to you, oh you just forgot to pray is what people would say. You've been praying for a breakthrough in your life and it didn't happen? Oh well you just don't have enough faith, or maybe you did something wrong. How another human being can measure someone else faith is beyond me. If you do pray for something and it doesn't happen, oh god isn't on your schedule; just be patient. These are the clever and annoying ways that believers have of defending their god and shifting all of the blame on you. This is the same thing that self help gurus and life coaches do.
what day was man created on?
A issue I have with alot of apologetics is it's about explanations that sound possible, but are they plausible. Example being things like, "the geneologies for Jesus being one is mary one is John's." or things like that, wich has no scriptural basis, or even historical basis, other then there has to be a reason. It's something I bring up if it's contradictions between books, there is this belief by Christians that matthew and luke were talking about the same things and meant the same things, so contradictions must be harmonizable. Where to me I point out that these are two different people writing books near the same time, that probably never intended or expeted their book to be put along side another, or even knew about the other book.
So the 10+ year gap between the births of Jesus, the different genelogies, the impossible timelines *jesus going to egypt at same time he was in jeruselum being circumcised." and such is because they both were writing the story as they knew it, not two perfect versions of the same story.
wolf wing, well, we can't prove they are all not plausible either, as plausibility is also very subjective. For example Herod asked the Magi when the "star" appeared, and he calculated that it couldn't be more than 2 years, that along tells you Joseph didn't flew to Egypt right away. However your idea that the authors didn't know their books were going to be together is exactly what most of us believe because that's something we can definitely assume with a lot of certainty.
The contradictions in Start Wars - did they prevent you from exposing your children to it?
Have you nothing that makes you feel awe? Yes - you feel awe only when looking, like The Ancient Mariner, over the gunwale of the boat, into slimy, slithering, cthonian nature.
I love how Matt will actively go on tangents in his debates and videos about contradictions in the Bible but the one fkin video actually labeled “contradictions in the Bible” is 35 minutes of mental masterbation theoretically foreplaying us with “are you sure you want to know the contradictions? Why do you want to know the contradictions? Let’s be honest, the concept itself is a contradiction.”
So therefore, would you say that the Bible is basically uninterpretable?
It's interesting to know that there are problems with the Bible, which I used to think was a holy book.
My main problem with the Bible is the miracles. When something is called a miracle, it's because an impossible thing happened. If it's impossible, then it clearly didn't happen. If it did happen, then it's not a miracle.
I am having "Matt Dillahunty Marathon", watching Atheist Experience, Atheist Debates", Matt's debates and appearances, basically everything on Matt. I thought I would never truly recover after Hitchens died, but when I discovered (recently) March. Dillahunty, I warmed up to him, and even he has completely different style, he is almost as good as Hitch.
Lol...I’m gonna pretend that the painting of trees behind Matt is his sneaky way of saying “I’ve seen the fuckin’ trees, damn it! It’s not evidence for god!”
Christians have had over 1000 years to examine their book and think of ways to defend it or at least think of ways to defend belief in God, in spite of that book. Matt has had only a few decades to defend non-belief and I must confess, he is doing very well. Good work Matt.
Acts chapter 2 verses 38 to 39 have you experienced this yet?
Why couldn't God ensure that the copies of the Bible today are error free?
excellent video! I tend to steer away from contradictions within the text for that exact reason. I focus on the contradictions with reality...i.e. the falsehoods found in the text. the writers had a little understanding of how the world works, and it shines through books like the bible and koran.
Matt makes a good point about scribal error and the misunderstanding of words in past times which might not now have the same or even a different meaning. Just look at Shakespeare, and the meaning of words which; in his time, might have produced a great joke or a sexual pun, etc, but now are obscure to a modern audience. However, at least the knowledge of Shakespeare; and his plays , exist in their contemporary time frame, unlike the authors of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John!
In this case the "knowing" refers to the actual physical bible. That information is available to both sides of the question. He is saying the data itself is factually real as information. However the assertions that data makes may not be. So as far as knowing the same information as believers he is correct. Any conclusion from that information is subject to your own interpretation. It may be factual if there is empirical evidence to support your hypothesis. There is some data in the bible we know to be factual such as locations, named persons etc based on supporting empirical evidence. It is the metaphysical assertions in the bible that have no supporting empirical evidence.
I like Matt.
please explain why anyone discusses this topic as if a human idea can be considered real and true.
Scripture can ONLY be a representation.
God wrote the bible
Good points. This reminds me of your debate with Sye when he claimed that he could "refute" Islam by pointing out the apparent contradiction that the Koran says Allah's Word can't change when Muslims believe the Bible is corrupted. Whenever I think of that I remember he would never accept that same level of "argument" when I comes to the Old Testament. I doubt Sye has bothered to ask Muslim apologists about how they address that apparent contradiction...he's happy deluding himself into thinking he alone has found a defeater to the entire Muslim religion based on that one argument.
What are you say? Reduct you Adam syrup? Is that what you said?
Thank you sir, I am trying to get a grasp of some things that people dispute and this is very informative
Another problem with theists claiming the bible is perfect because it came from their god is this: if we accept the fact that the bible was written by humans and didn't just magically appear, why can't their god just beam that information into our heads as he did for the biblical authors? Why inject middle-men for no reason other than to confuse the issue?
Sir, if YOU are an Atheist, I must say, I DID NOT recognize that at the beginning of your video.
For, I AM a Theist & YET I was SO MOVED by your WISDOM. I have been a DEVOUT "theist" for ALL of my 59 years. HOWEVER, one of my BEST friends from Kindergarten was an "A"Theist. I have had some of my FONDEST Conversations with "A" Theist & some of my WORST most exasperating Conversations with other so-called "devout" Christians.
The difference I've learned between Me & they is that I BELIEVE [FAITH] that My CONVICTIONS are just "that"...FAITH! I AM "HONEST" about that. And A Theist tend to be HONEST about THEIR own positions. BOTH of us LOVE "Reason" and can seek meet THERE tho coming from VERY DIFFERENT sometimes POLAR different perspectives.
Whether Theist of NOT, I BELIEVE on of Humanities BIGGEST problems is NOT seeking Critical Thinking Skills. "A" theist tend to "reason" well, BUT have an EGO & PRIDE attachment, as if "reason" is NOT a QUEST for TRUTH, but a "competition" of One Up-man-ship.
But in YOUR case, I found you quite by accident we I was not looking, & I was thinking about the Proverbs contradiction, I was NOT expecting you to address that ARTICULAR thing when I clicked on you, but there it was. I was kind of un-nerving, I considered it "sent by GOD" :) - How Ironic huh? By an man who turned out to be "A" Theist. I find people like yourself are some of the BEST candidate for REAL CHRIST Enlightenment of ALL. I hope that you will BY PASS, the Religion Dirty Waters & JOIN US in following HIM.
Think about it: In the beginning was the LOGOS! And the LOGOS was "with" GOD & THE LOGOS was (= GOD). And isn't it TRUE that LOGOS is the Parent to LOGIC & REASON?
CHRIST-FOLLOWING in *THE WAY* was ALWAYS meant to be LOGICAL & REASONABLE with "FAITH unto BELIEF-CONVICTION" being the Bridge between 1st. KNOWLEDGE and what comes next: UNDERSTANDING & ENLIGHTENMENT!
I look into your Eyes, & I see such a SINCERE SPIRIT. I AM sure "THE SOURCE" of our BEING would LOVE to have YOU as a "BELIEVER"
Why would "god" send his only son to be killed if he can do anything why couldn't he just forgive sins without killing his kid , if God can do anything why would Jesus have to be born why cant he just create him like Adam and eve