When seemingly every game out there wants all of my time, I respect the ones that say their piece and let me move on. Strangely enough those tend to be the ones I'll come back to and play again.
@@ASpaceOstrich I think it’s a mix of inflation and gaming becoming essentially a “full time hobby”. People spend waaaay much more time playing games than they used to, and games have had to adapt because of that
@@danielzarkos There's still a chance that space marine 2 can develop into that. lets not forget it took the better part of a year for darktide to turn things around. I'd argue that sm2 is in a better state than darktide was at launch.
Helldivers and darktide killers are itself. Also I never thought space marine 2 was going to be the next co op horde game just looking at space marine 1 where it was a campaign focus game.
I really, really miss getting solid FPS single-player campaigns, which have just gotten rarer and rarer outside of COD (which I, unfortunately, don't really like). So SM2 having anything aside from the campaign is just icing on the cake for me.
Operations aren't locked, you can still play all of them without finishing the campaign, you just get a spoiler warning message. Edit: I know there's a lock icon, ignore that.
A game like this is perfect for someone like me with limited time for games. I really think you hit the nail on the head with comparing it as an outlier to all the replayability focused games out there. SM2 had a scope in mind and stuck to it which I can appreciate a lot.
The game is so refreshing in that it's not trying to hog all your gaming time haha despite the leveling being a bit of a grind. For me the highlight is all the Space Marine ✨FASHION ✨
I'm of two minds on the topic. You're absolutely right in that SM2 is not a play-forever game. It simply lacks the depth and variety necessary to sustain that. But at the same time, it could become so easily. Operations, as a whole, are really close, and the most important part, the primary gameplay loop (aka, the combat), was damn near perfectly done. The only thing keeping it from being a great competitor to, say, Darktide or whatever other co-op horde shooter is a lack of depth and nuance. The big one is the interactions between builds and moment to moment gameplay. Builds just make you better at what you already do, there's nothing truly transformative to the experience there. The closest I'm aware of is the Vanguard's CDR on finisher team perk, but even that just makes your ability more readily available. The game needs builds that create/facilitate fundamentally different playstyles, in order to create the kind of depth and nuance that makes playing the game fun even 10,000 hours in. For example, to continue with the Vanguard as that's what I'm most familiar with, pretty much all of the class perks are "be slightly better at getting up in the enemy's face and killing things". There's small hints of other stuff, with grenade recharge and a ranged damage amp, but it's nowhere near enough to make a build around. It needs stronger, more differentiated playstyles that can create synergies, if it wants to not get stale relatively quickly. If Focus ever needed ideas, what I would do is break every class into 3 distinct but similar roles/styles, and have each row on the perk tree be dedicated to a specific one of those styles. For example, with the Vanguard, I would have the roles be: 1) Melee thrasher, basically what the whole tree is now, all about closing the gap and shredding things from point blank range. The idea is to be in the thick of things at all times, dishing out the hurt and having the tools needed to keep yourself alive through just about anything. This would be what the melta is intended for, and an example of perks for it would be: longer grapnel range, increased parry window, bonus melee damage vs majors, and healing on melee kills 2) Assassin, all about high mobility and picking off priority targets with ease. The idea is a hit and run executioner, who can single out priority targets, delete them, and vanish into the distance before the enemy can react. This would be intended for the instigator carbine (and I'd give the Stalker to the Vanguard as well), and example perks would be: your grapnel can attach to walls like it can in pvp, grapnel CDR on finisher, AOE damage + stagger when grapneling into a target, bonus headshot damage that increases with each headshot until you miss or stop aiming 3) Harasser, all about debuffing and controlling enemies to set up the team to handle them. The idea is a debuff specialist that's all about telling the enemy they're not allowed to do that, and to set the team up to take advantage of the openings created by such. This would be intended for the occulus carbine, the SMG bolter, and example perks are: enemies hit by the grapnel kick take extra ranged damage, gun strikes deal extra damage and stagger, finishers restore grenade charges, finishers reduce damage done by all nearby enemies for several seconds Something like this, where there's clear playstyle definitions, but also some cross pollination potential that can create interesting synergies, would be all the game really needs for a long term sustainable playerbase. Especially if there's regular content and cosmetic updates to keep having stuff to work toward.
@@zekapeka1176 Adjusting for inflation, $40 in 2011 is about $56 in 2024, so they're actually pretty even in terms of price Edit: Nvm, just saw that SM2 is $70. So definitely more expensive but not quite as bad as a straight $30 markup
@@semperzach1194 Yes, understandable on one hand. On the other, relative to AAA games with the same price, it has a lot less content. Tho sm2 is intense. I usually go by formula of number of hours of fun and game should be at least equal to number of dollars spent
Agreed. Also the difference between the games are the pve mode, plus the horde mode coming later, and sparring arena. SM1 just had a campaign and multiplayer.
I played SM 1 for many years and it was the PVP that I played 99.99% of the time after completing the storyline. The PVP part of the game was so much fun and there were even chapters/teams formed and tournaments and I still know people to this day from 2011 from that time. I expect SM 2 will be similar in this way.
Well you know I've been having a great time with the game. I don't regret buying the Gold Edition personally, but I bought it mainly for the Season Pass, as I expect to get use out of the cosmetics for the coming year and I would've pined for it anyway. Personally, the Campaign itself carried the normal $60 price tag. I've enjoyed it that much. It's been a while since I've played through a cinematic experience that had me feel like I was lifting out of my seat from how cool something was, but I'm a Warhammer fan and this game is almost pure fanservice. This is what games used to be, really, so it's not a shocker to me. I suppose my biggest era of gaming personally was the Xbox 360 era. You hit the nail on the head. The industry today has shifted towards clawing at some kind of infinite viability. Like so many internet age atrocities, corporations are constantly trying to capitalize ALL of your time. I don't think it's by mistake that we have shifted globally into this mindset, that things must be repeatable ad infinitum to be worthwhile and we mustn't simply smell the roses. Especially if they're the roses of the "competitor" to your favorite thing. While SM2 certainly has some grind in Operations, I don't feel like it's really fighting to keep me chained to it, and honestly, I appreciate that. I do, really. It's refreshing stepping away from the Darktide slot machine to game where I get to play and simply be rewarded for playing. Very novel concept.
I'm not so sure. Immediately after release the game does present itself as primary story experience and all infinitely repayable modes look like just an afterthought. But story focused game is a game that requires a lot of work before the release and close to zero maintenance after. This means the developer has been very busy doing the campaign but now free to work on pvp and PvE. This game has everything to become the next Helldivers if the developers decide to put time and effort into it. However people who have spent 60$ on the game already aren't very likely to spend more on cosmetics. So there isn't that much incentive for the developers to provide live-service.
Please cover the new darktide buffs! They pretty much did everything you asked especially for the bolt weapons. Plus that lemon yellow marine is a WARCRIME
I played the first a while back so to me it's really funny seeing people being confused that it's mainly a pretty regular action game with some fun pve/pvp side content. Darktide killer and Helldivers 2 killer was just funny to hear prior to release. I'm glad it's not been morphed into something it isn't because the greatest strength Space Marine has is a budget they can use to showcase the kind of battles one would imagine when reading lore or playing the actual tabletop. It lets them curate the experience to make it amazing. A procedural rngfest would have been a mistake, in my opinion.
I never played SM1 and was going in completely blind. Plus, all of the trailers/content I saw before its release were showing the Skill Tree/Weapon Mastery systems, which made me think that the game was going to be primarily built around those systems
I bought already, loving the experience, playing the campaign right now and did played a bit of Eternal War, i'm not the kind of player whom spent hundreds or a few thousand of hour in a single game, but i'm the kind that comes back every once in a while, so I do believe that Space Marine 2 is my kind of game. Great review by the way. I just wanted to address the price of the game, I live in Brazil and I payed 350 Reais (around 70 dollars), and it is quite salty, since the game will have a considerate amount of in game purchase of cosmetics, I do believe that the game could have been sold at 60 dollars.
I'm really curious what they will add into the game over the coming months/years. I'm loving the game. But I wish there were way more co-op missions. Maybe in the future there will be more
Space marine 2 isn't a huge game but man is just fun to sit down and play with friends. Especially the pve, its closer to say left4dead2 then to any other pve co-op contemparies. Sure it has some progression but it very laid back very simple compared to vermintide 2, darktide, payday 2 etc etc.
I hadn't paid attention to any of the marketing, but it seems wild to me that anyone was expecting Space Marines 2 to compete with Helldivers. Besides, I would be deeply suspicious of any online game with Saber involved after the way they treated Evil Dead: The Game post launch. I'm still interested in Space Marines 2 as a story campaign, but Saber has lost my trust.
Will buy on sale. Soon both HD2 and DT will get huge patches, also same day as DT - my beloved against the storm. All this 3 updates + not very much content right now + main, i leaved work 2 weeks ago makes me pretty thrifty.
Space Marine 2 isn't going to be at the complexity of Darktide for a while as Sabre drip feeds content to keep up engagement. By that time, Darktide will had widened the gap. Sabre might work faster than Fatshark tho, so who knows.
A friend of mine just so happened to be upgrading a computer for school and got us two codes so I was fortunate for that. Maybe I’ve been tainted by the modern sphere of game inflation but I would not pay $60 for SM2. I wasn’t going to get it unless it was discounted down to $30-40. Genuinely, not even for the cost conscious gamer I do think this game is an incredible deal at that price range where as $60 might be fair as a launch title I believe the “end of the tunnel” of content will be seen much sooner than other comparable games. Darktide launched for $40 and I think that was perfect for it’s scope in game “modes” being specifically a horde shooter, now of days it constantly gets discounted (partially because of its small player base) and can only say those discounted prices make it significantly more worth it for someone who wants a very replayable game. SM2 I see as being worth it for someone who would like to go more in depth with a game but have a more limited amount of time. The campaign is an instantly gratifying action-romp that does a great job of introducing new and familiar fans into the atmosphere of the world with a ton of flash and flair. I do definitely see SM2 being the sort of game that keeps players with limited time enthralled for a long time, and people who have much more free time or find fast-track strats to get things might bounce between this and their main game like you said. GW likes to make their products complimentary particularly to their tabletop products of course. But using that strategy between multiple products of games is a good idea. If one is in a drought play the other, for GW and the devs that at least means you’re staying in the license and realm of Warhammer.
I'm actually surprised by how replayable the PvE is. I think it'll have a niche community. But overall I kinda expected exactly what you've described here. A more casual, fun experience. It has more depth than I expected to be honest.
@@Reginald-sc9tk They built the PvE to be very similar to how WWZ as a whole functions, so in all honestly I shouldn’t have been that surprised lol. The nice thing though is that they really gave WWZ some love over the years, and between that and the roadmap the replayability is only going to get better. I did kind of expect the depth, though. The biggest complaint I remember from WWZ was that the combat was too simple (among other things), so improving that aspect of their game was the only direction they could’ve gone with SM2
@@jtcLIVE Yeah world war z had that balance of, while it had progression it wasn't that focus. It was just fun to play missions like left4dead2, whereas darktide, vermintide, payday 2 etc is all about proggressing further and further and trying out new builds, closer to a looter game. The later requires commitment, the former you can sit down and play a few matches with some mates or randoms.
I agree with what you said. I don’t mind paying the ultra edition price since I’m trying to show as much support for actually getting a good 40k title for once. That and game prices haven’t hardly gone up since I started playing pc back in the early 90s.
Couldn't say it better myself. Bought it yesterday and returned it after roughly 2 hours. Doesn't run well on my PC, but aside from that, the combat wasn't there for me. If you don't main one side of it, whether it be purely melee or just shooting your way out, it makes you feel helpless. For me it lacks that punchiness that HD2 or Darktide have. Still there are people who are enjoying it and it's good 'cause in no way shape or form is a bad game, just simply not my cup of tea.
I do think that you are overestimating how replayable MP is for a lot of people, I personally am done with the tide series after about 80 hours each in Vermintide and Darktide. But I can, have, and will put hundreds to thousands of hours into replaying story based games. The idea of something being replayable or not is not tied to the type of game, or the type of gamer. Rather it is about the relation of game type to gamer type and how those work together.
I wonder if the replayability will come from pvp and endless pve like jtc said. The campaign mode may be the focus of the game, but after 30-40 hrs (or whatever), it feels like that’s where people will go to get their SM2 fix.
It's an interesting perspective to consider Space Marine 2 as a Gears of War esque game rather than comparing to Darktide, not something I've considered. However SM2 is still largely a skip for me (If it's on a decent sale one day and I have money to burn I might pick it up). What decided it for me was when I pulled up SM2's OST and skimmed through and it was all pretty bland/generic tracks. I'll stick to mowing down hordes with Disposal Unit blasting out my ear drums thanks.
I mean plenty of 40k fans are not happy with how this panned out either though? I think its easy to sit back and say "not real fans" but thats just fanboyism. There are lots of very genuine valid complaints about this game, yet it is defended so rabidly.
Yea I don't understand this either. It's basically a better, more up to date version of the first, and it was advertised as such too. People did 0 research
@@jamescooke7243 sure, most fans. Most fans are casual players though, not looking to be engaged. Most fans are also old and middle aged, having played sm1 when they were younger, such demographics are not often looking for good mechanics over short and sweet spectacle. This is the worst value for money warhammer game I've played.
@@bradley6471 Most fans are casual players? Got a database to back that up? Older players aren't looking for good mechanics? What? Mate, you are speaking out your ass. Typical hater
None of these points really assuage my main concerns with what I’ve seen of Space Marine 2. I just can’t help but feel that at the current AAA standard price point of $70 there seems to be a serious lack of content. An 8 hour linear campaign, 6 PvE missions and 3 PvP maps is not worth $70 to me. I do think it’s fair to compare operations to the PvE elements of other games and especially something like Darktide for what they’re competing against in terms of players time. From the gameplay of my friends and folks I’ve watched it doesn’t seem like there’s much going on a lot of the time in operations. Lots of moment of enemies standing around like a king fu fight engaging one at a time waiting for their friends to be taken down before going in. The enemy density and variety is nowhere near the level of darktide, and as a result doesn’t seem to provide that sense of desperation or struggle against overwhelming odds that DT does and which should be a common theme among the countless horrors of the Warhammer universe. Just because it’s a simple game doesn’t excuse a lack of depth in customization or difficulty either. If the game’s not intended to be infinitely replayable, then why did the game launch with season passes and this huge roadmap extending into next year? If I’m meant to keep investing my time in a game in anticipation of future content releases, I’d like some more variety and difficulty to make the gameplay fun and interesting. My belief is that the hype for this game mostly comes from it being a 40k property and fan nostalgia for it being a long anticipated sequel of a popular game. Had SM2’s core systems been attached to a less beloved IP or an original IP this game would’ve gotten dragged by critics. Once the honeymoon phase is over and the casual players have had their fill in 2-3 months l, the game’s population will fall off hard. It doesn’t have the core gameplay depth or difficulty to sustain a hardcore group of players to really dig into the game and its challenges like the -tide games have been able to foster despite their flaws elsewhere.
49hrs in SM2 and I´m bored as all heck so I got darktide and after my first game 6hrs (now 40 lol) I had more fun than I did through my nearly 50hrs in SM2 :/ and yes I regret getting the gold version aswell
Until I can afford to try this cause it still looks really fun, I will be trying to complete ranked weaves only at 18 I know bad 😅but I’m getting there 😎
(I haven't slept yet so if I am rambling I am sorry lolol) I love this game! And I don't regret the $100 i put into it for early access. It's my type of game. That 360 era of single player campaigns and co-op and simple pvp. I feel like I am back in my element lolol! I enjoy games like Helldivers 2 but they are too... random i guess? I love linear missions with a set mission structure and objectives. Like strikes in Destiny. I used to replay all the strikes in D1 and never got super board. But with things like horde modes or whatever Helldivers' category is, they don't hold my attention as much as linear mission structures. It's why i have replayed the Halo campaigns more than i have ever played firefight. I do appreciate the little bit of randomness SM2 has, spicing things up a little. But that linear mission design is what keeps me coming back. Also the progession is enjoyable lol. And pvp is just plain stupid fun. Absolutely love it.
Would love to play space marine 2 with my 2 friends who are loving it but that pesky $70 price tag is stopping me And now knowing that there’s no real replayability, I probably won’t get it and will wait til a game I want in October is coming out There’s no problem with no replayability campaigns but with the hard times for cash these days it’s just tough to have to pick between multiple games
Hoping this game becomes playable at max difficulty soon, I simply cannot have fun and feel like a space marine when you feel like you have paper armor, basic enemies can track you through rolls with their guns, and health is at 1 for the entirety of a level because theres only 2 stimpacks and the recovery window is a fraction of a second to recover health. It feels like it was basically untested at highest difficulty, because it feels like the Halo 2 Legendary campaign. Is it possible? Yes. Is it fun to play the way that style of difficulty demands? Not really. Contrasted with Darktide where you feel like you can gain some level of control, rolling away from my enemies over and over and over feels very unsatisfying.
I'm not sure I agree with the message here. I feel like a lot of the game going forward will focus on stuff like the operations mode. For the main campaign to be "the main focus" it'd have to be good. IMO the only mission actually worth the time it takes is the final one, the others are filler, poorly written, and an absolute slog to get through on the highest difficulty. If every mission was of a quality that the final one set, then I'd agree but as it stands you could just remove the rest and give a recap and nothing of value would be lost, in fact the game would be better as the poorly written moments would no longer be clear as day. If the main campaign was supposed to be the primary focus... why would it be so short? why would it be primarily filler? why would you fight the antagonist twice rather than a unique encounter? why would they have such an aggressive post launch content schedule? Also as a side note I think the first fight with the major antagonist has to be one of the worst bosses in video games I have ever faced. A 15 minute pure combat slog against bullet sponge enemies. I might have fucked myself over here wanting a challenging experience, but like you say... I came in expecting a darktide competitor, I came in expecting good combat and a main story that would provide a good introduction to the weapon mechanics of the operations mode. At this point I'm just hoping that the other content is good because if the main story was the primary focus, I wasted £70 for 8 hours of garbage, and like an hour or so of actual good content.
@@jamescooke7243 Interesting that I don't understand the basic mechanics and yet was able to beat the game on the hardest difficulty with ease? the truth is there's not much there. Tell me, what mechanic stops chaos marines taking like 40 bolt shells to kill? what game mechanic makes the bad character writing make sense? Feel free to actually point out where you feel I am incorrect rather than putting literally nothing forward and instead just trying to insult me. Though I don't expect much of a fanboy that's so blinded in terms of logical sense. Plenty of other 40k games that aren't shit though, and the coop mode from what I've played does seem a little better.
@@bradley6471 you say the missions are slogs, but you beat them easily? Contradiction. Bullet sponge enemies, the game gave you a parry system and melee weapons, so you don't have to empty your ammo. So you literally don't understand the mechanics Characters are great and fit in well You're just your typical salty loser with nothing better to do than be negative about everything. The world if filled the npcs like you. It's better you just stop playing the game
Completely agreed. I'd give SM2 a 6/10. Helldivers has this game beat on most levels. The fact that this game has melee and customizable weapon and equipment perks are the only things that come to mind as an advantage. 😊
The problem is that too many studios/publishers are chasing the ‘trend’. Every single-player game has to be open-world, every MP game has to be live service. It's as if every restaurant is imitating the BicMac and you can't get anything else to eat. Until you're sick of it.
No mark strong. More PVP based quick arcade combat contrary to the original that felt more sluggish, heavy and immersed in making the player feel like a god and not a dude running around with 2 other dudes doing all the work. No heavy foostep sounds for your bigass power armor. I'm seriously disappointed something so basic went past QA
This game is pure garbage. Just suffered through the campaign and got a marine to level 10. I just can't play it anymore. The story is great. Graphics are great. But the actual game play is god awful. For a horde base game it's to sluggish. marines move entirely to slow dodge entirely to slow attack/melee entirely to slow and parry entirely to slow. Then the marines no matter which you choose feels like paper. Then the weapons are horrible. Shouldn't take almost 2 magazines to kill something even on the lowest difficulty. Don't waste your money on this game.
The game is exactly what i expected and wanted: Space Marine 1 but with more shit on it. I think there is a problem with Warhammer Fantasy / Warhammer 40k games (partially because the money grubbing goblins of GG make sure to keep people confused): these are not games for people that like videogames, these are games for people that like WF / W40K. I did not come to this game for the campaign, the PVP, the PVE or whatever: i came to this game to be a Space Marine, break shit and bask in the glory how brain-rotting ridiculous things are and how little sense they make. Mission accomplished. 10/10 game.
When seemingly every game out there wants all of my time, I respect the ones that say their piece and let me move on. Strangely enough those tend to be the ones I'll come back to and play again.
This was just how all games were for ages. It's kinda wild at this point that this is unusual.
@@ASpaceOstrich I think it’s a mix of inflation and gaming becoming essentially a “full time hobby”. People spend waaaay much more time playing games than they used to, and games have had to adapt because of that
@@jtcLIVE To be honest I also prefer Darktide, I was hoping that they would have a similar approach to Darktide...
@@danielzarkos There's still a chance that space marine 2 can develop into that. lets not forget it took the better part of a year for darktide to turn things around. I'd argue that sm2 is in a better state than darktide was at launch.
Helldivers and darktide killers are itself. Also I never thought space marine 2 was going to be the next co op horde game just looking at space marine 1 where it was a campaign focus game.
I really, really miss getting solid FPS single-player campaigns, which have just gotten rarer and rarer outside of COD (which I, unfortunately, don't really like). So SM2 having anything aside from the campaign is just icing on the cake for me.
Operations aren't locked, you can still play all of them without finishing the campaign, you just get a spoiler warning message. Edit: I know there's a lock icon, ignore that.
A game like this is perfect for someone like me with limited time for games. I really think you hit the nail on the head with comparing it as an outlier to all the replayability focused games out there. SM2 had a scope in mind and stuck to it which I can appreciate a lot.
I appreciate it when games understand their scope, and don't try to push past that for the sake of money or arbitrary engagement
The game is so refreshing in that it's not trying to hog all your gaming time haha despite the leveling being a bit of a grind. For me the highlight is all the Space Marine ✨FASHION ✨
@@warmgunproduction4545 HOW DARE YOU NOT TRYHARD 24/7 AAAARGHHH
I'm of two minds on the topic. You're absolutely right in that SM2 is not a play-forever game. It simply lacks the depth and variety necessary to sustain that.
But at the same time, it could become so easily. Operations, as a whole, are really close, and the most important part, the primary gameplay loop (aka, the combat), was damn near perfectly done. The only thing keeping it from being a great competitor to, say, Darktide or whatever other co-op horde shooter is a lack of depth and nuance.
The big one is the interactions between builds and moment to moment gameplay. Builds just make you better at what you already do, there's nothing truly transformative to the experience there. The closest I'm aware of is the Vanguard's CDR on finisher team perk, but even that just makes your ability more readily available. The game needs builds that create/facilitate fundamentally different playstyles, in order to create the kind of depth and nuance that makes playing the game fun even 10,000 hours in. For example, to continue with the Vanguard as that's what I'm most familiar with, pretty much all of the class perks are "be slightly better at getting up in the enemy's face and killing things". There's small hints of other stuff, with grenade recharge and a ranged damage amp, but it's nowhere near enough to make a build around. It needs stronger, more differentiated playstyles that can create synergies, if it wants to not get stale relatively quickly.
If Focus ever needed ideas, what I would do is break every class into 3 distinct but similar roles/styles, and have each row on the perk tree be dedicated to a specific one of those styles. For example, with the Vanguard, I would have the roles be:
1) Melee thrasher, basically what the whole tree is now, all about closing the gap and shredding things from point blank range. The idea is to be in the thick of things at all times, dishing out the hurt and having the tools needed to keep yourself alive through just about anything. This would be what the melta is intended for, and an example of perks for it would be: longer grapnel range, increased parry window, bonus melee damage vs majors, and healing on melee kills
2) Assassin, all about high mobility and picking off priority targets with ease. The idea is a hit and run executioner, who can single out priority targets, delete them, and vanish into the distance before the enemy can react. This would be intended for the instigator carbine (and I'd give the Stalker to the Vanguard as well), and example perks would be: your grapnel can attach to walls like it can in pvp, grapnel CDR on finisher, AOE damage + stagger when grapneling into a target, bonus headshot damage that increases with each headshot until you miss or stop aiming
3) Harasser, all about debuffing and controlling enemies to set up the team to handle them. The idea is a debuff specialist that's all about telling the enemy they're not allowed to do that, and to set the team up to take advantage of the openings created by such. This would be intended for the occulus carbine, the SMG bolter, and example perks are: enemies hit by the grapnel kick take extra ranged damage, gun strikes deal extra damage and stagger, finishers restore grenade charges, finishers reduce damage done by all nearby enemies for several seconds
Something like this, where there's clear playstyle definitions, but also some cross pollination potential that can create interesting synergies, would be all the game really needs for a long term sustainable playerbase. Especially if there's regular content and cosmetic updates to keep having stuff to work toward.
Knowing Space marine 1, SP2 was exactly what i expected from the 2nd game... But im pretty sure sp1 didnt cost $60 but 40 or even less...
@@zekapeka1176 Adjusting for inflation, $40 in 2011 is about $56 in 2024, so they're actually pretty even in terms of price
Edit: Nvm, just saw that SM2 is $70. So definitely more expensive but not quite as bad as a straight $30 markup
@@semperzach1194 Yes, understandable on one hand. On the other, relative to AAA games with the same price, it has a lot less content. Tho sm2 is intense.
I usually go by formula of number of hours of fun and game should be at least equal to number of dollars spent
Im pretty sure sm1 cost 50 at launch
Agreed. Also the difference between the games are the pve mode, plus the horde mode coming later, and sparring arena. SM1 just had a campaign and multiplayer.
As always, this guy can deliver a objetive yet simple review and state of things inside gaming. Ty for all your effort put into it.
I played SM 1 for many years and it was the PVP that I played 99.99% of the time after completing the storyline. The PVP part of the game was so much fun and there were even chapters/teams formed and tournaments and I still know people to this day from 2011 from that time. I expect SM 2 will be similar in this way.
whats going to be endlessly replayable is the PVP, for folks who are into that. It just needs more maps, which it will be getting next year.
Well you know I've been having a great time with the game. I don't regret buying the Gold Edition personally, but I bought it mainly for the Season Pass, as I expect to get use out of the cosmetics for the coming year and I would've pined for it anyway. Personally, the Campaign itself carried the normal $60 price tag. I've enjoyed it that much. It's been a while since I've played through a cinematic experience that had me feel like I was lifting out of my seat from how cool something was, but I'm a Warhammer fan and this game is almost pure fanservice.
This is what games used to be, really, so it's not a shocker to me. I suppose my biggest era of gaming personally was the Xbox 360 era. You hit the nail on the head. The industry today has shifted towards clawing at some kind of infinite viability. Like so many internet age atrocities, corporations are constantly trying to capitalize ALL of your time. I don't think it's by mistake that we have shifted globally into this mindset, that things must be repeatable ad infinitum to be worthwhile and we mustn't simply smell the roses. Especially if they're the roses of the "competitor" to your favorite thing. While SM2 certainly has some grind in Operations, I don't feel like it's really fighting to keep me chained to it, and honestly, I appreciate that. I do, really. It's refreshing stepping away from the Darktide slot machine to game where I get to play and simply be rewarded for playing. Very novel concept.
I'm not so sure. Immediately after release the game does present itself as primary story experience and all infinitely repayable modes look like just an afterthought. But story focused game is a game that requires a lot of work before the release and close to zero maintenance after. This means the developer has been very busy doing the campaign but now free to work on pvp and PvE. This game has everything to become the next Helldivers if the developers decide to put time and effort into it. However people who have spent 60$ on the game already aren't very likely to spend more on cosmetics. So there isn't that much incentive for the developers to provide live-service.
The operations remind me a lot of Mass Effect 3's multiplayer missions.
Please cover the new darktide buffs! They pretty much did everything you asked especially for the bolt weapons.
Plus that lemon yellow marine is a WARCRIME
@@Joseph-mw2rl excuse you his name is BANANNA MAN
I played the first a while back so to me it's really funny seeing people being confused that it's mainly a pretty regular action game with some fun pve/pvp side content. Darktide killer and Helldivers 2 killer was just funny to hear prior to release.
I'm glad it's not been morphed into something it isn't because the greatest strength Space Marine has is a budget they can use to showcase the kind of battles one would imagine when reading lore or playing the actual tabletop. It lets them curate the experience to make it amazing. A procedural rngfest would have been a mistake, in my opinion.
Not sure why you would expect procedural generated missions. It a sequel to a linear campaign based game, which SM1 was.
I never played SM1 and was going in completely blind. Plus, all of the trailers/content I saw before its release were showing the Skill Tree/Weapon Mastery systems, which made me think that the game was going to be primarily built around those systems
@@jtcLIVE that sounds like a you problem, not a problem with the game.
@@wonderstag5405Nowhere was it said that's a problem
I bought already, loving the experience, playing the campaign right now and did played a bit of Eternal War, i'm not the kind of player whom spent hundreds or a few thousand of hour in a single game, but i'm the kind that comes back every once in a while, so I do believe that Space Marine 2 is my kind of game. Great review by the way. I just wanted to address the price of the game, I live in Brazil and I payed 350 Reais (around 70 dollars), and it is quite salty, since the game will have a considerate amount of in game purchase of cosmetics, I do believe that the game could have been sold at 60 dollars.
I'm really curious what they will add into the game over the coming months/years. I'm loving the game. But I wish there were way more co-op missions. Maybe in the future there will be more
They've confirmed new operations are coming, along with new weapons, enemies, a new difficulty, a prestige system and more
@@jtcLIVE My bet as far as new enemies is an exalted sorcerer for thousands of sons to match the Nids neurothrope boss. It just makes sense.
Space marine 2 isn't a huge game but man is just fun to sit down and play with friends. Especially the pve, its closer to say left4dead2 then to any other pve co-op contemparies. Sure it has some progression but it very laid back very simple compared to vermintide 2, darktide, payday 2 etc etc.
I hadn't paid attention to any of the marketing, but it seems wild to me that anyone was expecting Space Marines 2 to compete with Helldivers. Besides, I would be deeply suspicious of any online game with Saber involved after the way they treated Evil Dead: The Game post launch. I'm still interested in Space Marines 2 as a story campaign, but Saber has lost my trust.
Evil dead was such a fucking tragedy. I loved that game and they KILLED IT for a battle royale mode no one even wanted 😭
Will buy on sale. Soon both HD2 and DT will get huge patches, also same day as DT - my beloved against the storm. All this 3 updates + not very much content right now + main, i leaved work 2 weeks ago makes me pretty thrifty.
Space Marine 2 isn't going to be at the complexity of Darktide for a while as Sabre drip feeds content to keep up engagement. By that time, Darktide will had widened the gap. Sabre might work faster than Fatshark tho, so who knows.
Great input! I’m just glad we have another decent 40k game that we can rotate into whenever there’s new content.
A friend of mine just so happened to be upgrading a computer for school and got us two codes so I was fortunate for that. Maybe I’ve been tainted by the modern sphere of game inflation but I would not pay $60 for SM2. I wasn’t going to get it unless it was discounted down to $30-40. Genuinely, not even for the cost conscious gamer I do think this game is an incredible deal at that price range where as $60 might be fair as a launch title I believe the “end of the tunnel” of content will be seen much sooner than other comparable games. Darktide launched for $40 and I think that was perfect for it’s scope in game “modes” being specifically a horde shooter, now of days it constantly gets discounted (partially because of its small player base) and can only say those discounted prices make it significantly more worth it for someone who wants a very replayable game. SM2 I see as being worth it for someone who would like to go more in depth with a game but have a more limited amount of time. The campaign is an instantly gratifying action-romp that does a great job of introducing new and familiar fans into the atmosphere of the world with a ton of flash and flair.
I do definitely see SM2 being the sort of game that keeps players with limited time enthralled for a long time, and people who have much more free time or find fast-track strats to get things might bounce between this and their main game like you said. GW likes to make their products complimentary particularly to their tabletop products of course. But using that strategy between multiple products of games is a good idea. If one is in a drought play the other, for GW and the devs that at least means you’re staying in the license and realm of Warhammer.
I'm actually surprised by how replayable the PvE is. I think it'll have a niche community. But overall I kinda expected exactly what you've described here. A more casual, fun experience. It has more depth than I expected to be honest.
@@Reginald-sc9tk They built the PvE to be very similar to how WWZ as a whole functions, so in all honestly I shouldn’t have been that surprised lol. The nice thing though is that they really gave WWZ some love over the years, and between that and the roadmap the replayability is only going to get better.
I did kind of expect the depth, though. The biggest complaint I remember from WWZ was that the combat was too simple (among other things), so improving that aspect of their game was the only direction they could’ve gone with SM2
@@jtcLIVE Yeah world war z had that balance of, while it had progression it wasn't that focus. It was just fun to play missions like left4dead2, whereas darktide, vermintide, payday 2 etc is all about proggressing further and further and trying out new builds, closer to a looter game. The later requires commitment, the former you can sit down and play a few matches with some mates or randoms.
I agree with what you said. I don’t mind paying the ultra edition price since I’m trying to show as much support for actually getting a good 40k title for once. That and game prices haven’t hardly gone up since I started playing pc back in the early 90s.
Couldn't say it better myself. Bought it yesterday and returned it after roughly 2 hours. Doesn't run well on my PC, but aside from that, the combat wasn't there for me. If you don't main one side of it, whether it be purely melee or just shooting your way out, it makes you feel helpless. For me it lacks that punchiness that HD2 or Darktide have. Still there are people who are enjoying it and it's good 'cause in no way shape or form is a bad game, just simply not my cup of tea.
I have no idea why people were expecting this game to replace HD2 but oh well I'm glad we can be civil about it
Skill issue
git gud scrub
At this stage I can't even play the operation missions. It has the same issue with its servers as helldivers 2 did upon release.
I do think that you are overestimating how replayable MP is for a lot of people, I personally am done with the tide series after about 80 hours each in Vermintide and Darktide. But I can, have, and will put hundreds to thousands of hours into replaying story based games. The idea of something being replayable or not is not tied to the type of game, or the type of gamer. Rather it is about the relation of game type to gamer type and how those work together.
I wonder if the replayability will come from pvp and endless pve like jtc said. The campaign mode may be the focus of the game, but after 30-40 hrs (or whatever), it feels like that’s where people will go to get their SM2 fix.
It's an interesting perspective to consider Space Marine 2 as a Gears of War esque game rather than comparing to Darktide, not something I've considered.
However SM2 is still largely a skip for me (If it's on a decent sale one day and I have money to burn I might pick it up). What decided it for me was when I pulled up SM2's OST and skimmed through and it was all pretty bland/generic tracks. I'll stick to mowing down hordes with Disposal Unit blasting out my ear drums thanks.
People who never played the first game and don’t buy into 40k
‘This isn’t what I thought it would be’
I mean plenty of 40k fans are not happy with how this panned out either though? I think its easy to sit back and say "not real fans" but thats just fanboyism. There are lots of very genuine valid complaints about this game, yet it is defended so rabidly.
Yea I don't understand this either. It's basically a better, more up to date version of the first, and it was advertised as such too. People did 0 research
@bradley6471 most fans love the game. Just FYI
@@jamescooke7243 sure, most fans. Most fans are casual players though, not looking to be engaged. Most fans are also old and middle aged, having played sm1 when they were younger, such demographics are not often looking for good mechanics over short and sweet spectacle. This is the worst value for money warhammer game I've played.
@@bradley6471 Most fans are casual players? Got a database to back that up?
Older players aren't looking for good mechanics? What?
Mate, you are speaking out your ass. Typical hater
None of these points really assuage my main concerns with what I’ve seen of Space Marine 2. I just can’t help but feel that at the current AAA standard price point of $70 there seems to be a serious lack of content. An 8 hour linear campaign, 6 PvE missions and 3 PvP maps is not worth $70 to me. I do think it’s fair to compare operations to the PvE elements of other games and especially something like Darktide for what they’re competing against in terms of players time. From the gameplay of my friends and folks I’ve watched it doesn’t seem like there’s much going on a lot of the time in operations. Lots of moment of enemies standing around like a king fu fight engaging one at a time waiting for their friends to be taken down before going in. The enemy density and variety is nowhere near the level of darktide, and as a result doesn’t seem to provide that sense of desperation or struggle against overwhelming odds that DT does and which should be a common theme among the countless horrors of the Warhammer universe. Just because it’s a simple game doesn’t excuse a lack of depth in customization or difficulty either. If the game’s not intended to be infinitely replayable, then why did the game launch with season passes and this huge roadmap extending into next year? If I’m meant to keep investing my time in a game in anticipation of future content releases, I’d like some more variety and difficulty to make the gameplay fun and interesting.
My belief is that the hype for this game mostly comes from it being a 40k property and fan nostalgia for it being a long anticipated sequel of a popular game. Had SM2’s core systems been attached to a less beloved IP or an original IP this game would’ve gotten dragged by critics. Once the honeymoon phase is over and the casual players have had their fill in 2-3 months l, the game’s population will fall off hard. It doesn’t have the core gameplay depth or difficulty to sustain a hardcore group of players to really dig into the game and its challenges like the -tide games have been able to foster despite their flaws elsewhere.
49hrs in SM2 and I´m bored as all heck so I got darktide and after my first game 6hrs (now 40 lol) I had more fun than I did through my nearly 50hrs in SM2 :/
and yes I regret getting the gold version aswell
Gaming is one of the most expensive hobbies. Wym
Until I can afford to try this cause it still looks really fun, I will be trying to complete ranked weaves only at 18 I know bad 😅but I’m getting there 😎
(I haven't slept yet so if I am rambling I am sorry lolol)
I love this game! And I don't regret the $100 i put into it for early access. It's my type of game. That 360 era of single player campaigns and co-op and simple pvp. I feel like I am back in my element lolol!
I enjoy games like Helldivers 2 but they are too... random i guess? I love linear missions with a set mission structure and objectives. Like strikes in Destiny. I used to replay all the strikes in D1 and never got super board. But with things like horde modes or whatever Helldivers' category is, they don't hold my attention as much as linear mission structures. It's why i have replayed the Halo campaigns more than i have ever played firefight.
I do appreciate the little bit of randomness SM2 has, spicing things up a little. But that linear mission design is what keeps me coming back. Also the progession is enjoyable lol.
And pvp is just plain stupid fun. Absolutely love it.
It’s a freaking masterpiece
hardly
I think $100 for a new Warhammer game sounds about right.
Fanatastic review. Personally i love it and it will be my main game for a few months. Probably until POE2
Would love to play space marine 2 with my 2 friends who are loving it but that pesky $70 price tag is stopping me
And now knowing that there’s no real replayability, I probably won’t get it and will wait til a game I want in October is coming out
There’s no problem with no replayability campaigns but with the hard times for cash these days it’s just tough to have to pick between multiple games
I got it for 59.99 on PC.
@@omegablackzero Sadly I don’t have a pc, just a PS5 and an old Xbox one
Its awesome game, with amazing campaingn and gameplay, but its not and I believe its not meant to be replacement for darktide
Hoping this game becomes playable at max difficulty soon, I simply cannot have fun and feel like a space marine when you feel like you have paper armor, basic enemies can track you through rolls with their guns, and health is at 1 for the entirety of a level because theres only 2 stimpacks and the recovery window is a fraction of a second to recover health. It feels like it was basically untested at highest difficulty, because it feels like the Halo 2 Legendary campaign. Is it possible? Yes. Is it fun to play the way that style of difficulty demands? Not really. Contrasted with Darktide where you feel like you can gain some level of control, rolling away from my enemies over and over and over feels very unsatisfying.
Space Marine 2 is a good game, but for this price I would like to see more content and more replayability.
They have an entire year of DLC, that’s is absolutely free.
I'm not sure I agree with the message here. I feel like a lot of the game going forward will focus on stuff like the operations mode. For the main campaign to be "the main focus" it'd have to be good. IMO the only mission actually worth the time it takes is the final one, the others are filler, poorly written, and an absolute slog to get through on the highest difficulty. If every mission was of a quality that the final one set, then I'd agree but as it stands you could just remove the rest and give a recap and nothing of value would be lost, in fact the game would be better as the poorly written moments would no longer be clear as day.
If the main campaign was supposed to be the primary focus... why would it be so short? why would it be primarily filler? why would you fight the antagonist twice rather than a unique encounter? why would they have such an aggressive post launch content schedule?
Also as a side note I think the first fight with the major antagonist has to be one of the worst bosses in video games I have ever faced. A 15 minute pure combat slog against bullet sponge enemies. I might have fucked myself over here wanting a challenging experience, but like you say... I came in expecting a darktide competitor, I came in expecting good combat and a main story that would provide a good introduction to the weapon mechanics of the operations mode. At this point I'm just hoping that the other content is good because if the main story was the primary focus, I wasted £70 for 8 hours of garbage, and like an hour or so of actual good content.
So, basically, you did no research, you don't understand the mechanics, and then blame everyone else but yourself? Interesting
@@jamescooke7243 Interesting that I don't understand the basic mechanics and yet was able to beat the game on the hardest difficulty with ease? the truth is there's not much there. Tell me, what mechanic stops chaos marines taking like 40 bolt shells to kill? what game mechanic makes the bad character writing make sense?
Feel free to actually point out where you feel I am incorrect rather than putting literally nothing forward and instead just trying to insult me. Though I don't expect much of a fanboy that's so blinded in terms of logical sense. Plenty of other 40k games that aren't shit though, and the coop mode from what I've played does seem a little better.
@@bradley6471 you say the missions are slogs, but you beat them easily? Contradiction.
Bullet sponge enemies, the game gave you a parry system and melee weapons, so you don't have to empty your ammo. So you literally don't understand the mechanics
Characters are great and fit in well
You're just your typical salty loser with nothing better to do than be negative about everything. The world if filled the npcs like you. It's better you just stop playing the game
Completely agreed. I'd give SM2 a 6/10. Helldivers has this game beat on most levels. The fact that this game has melee and customizable weapon and equipment perks are the only things that come to mind as an advantage. 😊
The problem is that too many studios/publishers are chasing the ‘trend’. Every single-player game has to be open-world, every MP game has to be live service. It's as if every restaurant is imitating the BicMac and you can't get anything else to eat. Until you're sick of it.
same devs made world war z and that game is asssss, the xenos do the same pile up shit to climb too kinda hilarious
No mark strong. More PVP based quick arcade combat contrary to the original that felt more sluggish, heavy and immersed in making the player feel like a god and not a dude running around with 2 other dudes doing all the work. No heavy foostep sounds for your bigass power armor. I'm seriously disappointed something so basic went past QA
This game is pure garbage. Just suffered through the campaign and got a marine to level 10. I just can't play it anymore. The story is great. Graphics are great. But the actual game play is god awful. For a horde base game it's to sluggish. marines move entirely to slow dodge entirely to slow attack/melee entirely to slow and parry entirely to slow. Then the marines no matter which you choose feels like paper. Then the weapons are horrible. Shouldn't take almost 2 magazines to kill something even on the lowest difficulty. Don't waste your money on this game.
The game is exactly what i expected and wanted: Space Marine 1 but with more shit on it.
I think there is a problem with Warhammer Fantasy / Warhammer 40k games (partially because the money grubbing goblins of GG make sure to keep people confused): these are not games for people that like videogames, these are games for people that like WF / W40K.
I did not come to this game for the campaign, the PVP, the PVE or whatever: i came to this game to be a Space Marine, break shit and bask in the glory how brain-rotting ridiculous things are and how little sense they make.
Mission accomplished. 10/10 game.