Why did Dragon Ball GT's Artstyle look so different?
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- Опубліковано 13 гру 2022
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It isn't uncommon for a new season, sequel, or remake to often bring a host of changes to the visual side of a series.
Perhaps it's handed off to another studio or a new character designer has been appointed. Although for a show
that followed immediately after, retained the same character designer - Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru and core team, on paper you
would expect the visuals would take the same direction as before, however, that was very much not the case.
So join me today as we delve into why and what led to this change in today's video
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ForgottenRelics could you try doing a comparison of Arifumi Imai to Naotoshi Shida in terms of how each approach action animation, since are know to be these climax style animators.
Bro I’m so glad you made this. I’ve been wondering why DBZ and GT looked so different. Idk but I find it funny that DBZ looks way better than GT does when you compare when they were being made.
@@matthewpatrick7964 np dude, glad you enjoyed it
I don't think I will.
Idk how to properly describe it, but GT's style really made it seem like everyone aged from Z. Obviously charactee sheets were most likely updated to reflect this but the rounder style made everyone seem older
THIS^ One thing that GT has over Super, where characters look like they been starving and not training anymore, lol.
I absolutely LOVED how they made Vegeta JACKED! I’m not a big fan how characters in modern Dragon Ball are slimmer in their designs. Buu Saga Vegeta will always be my favorite design of Vegeta because of how jacked he is and GT made him even more so. Not to diss Super or anything like that, it’s just not my cup of tea.
Edit: I can’t believe I wasn’t specific before hand, but I meant the DBS manga.
Vegeta's muscles are pretty much the same as now though. If you're referring to the Z anime, they made him and Goku look bulkier than they looked in the manga.
YES THANK YOU I FEEL LIKE IM TAKING CRAZY PILLS!!
@@jasonone8726f manga
@@_Mikeebeed_ the manga is better.
Far more consistent in terms of quality of art, compared to the laughable anime.
@@Zombiewasabi you are.
Those gigantic necks are quite ridiculous in the Buu arc but I swear something about them really fits Goku and Vegeta. Like in ep 229 when they're staring each other down they look super intense. Also interesting to note is Gohan's neck is much thinner compared to theirs in the same episode.
Ahhh didn't notice that about Gohan. I'm guessing that was maybe to do with the fact you technically had two AD's on the ep, Yamamuro, and Ishikawa so there was a mixture of approaches
super buu's neck is a literal brick.
Is because Gohan is a 'nerfed' version of Goku and , also he is still like 17, look at Goku's Physique at that Age..
They got that necc
@@kekyointheshitpostingfool7959 those 2 Saiyan boi's are juiced to the gills
GT’s art style has a 90’s seinei Anime vibe imo.
It’s like Berserk, JoJo 90’s OVA, Ghost in the shell, Fist of the Northstar.
Seinei?
@@fielalmanga
Not literally shonens
Shonens are for younger audiences
Seineis for older
seinen
Oh wow you’re totally right holy shit
Something that might be interesting to look at is the art style and any character design differences in both versions of Fullmetal Alchemist. Both have a very distinct style with 03 being more darker and duller in color tones while Brotherhood is very bright and saturated. Might make an interesting video
Also the more manga-accurate roundness to the designs of Brotherhood.
I also just cannot ignore the more abstract background work of FMAB, give it a unique storybook feel.
@@Ruldolphmaker I think they're both manga-accurate, but the 2003 version based its designs on the first 3 volumes (which were the only ones avaliable when that adaptation came out) while Brotherhood based it on their final designs.
I love the original more it's just much better.
@@karmitdafruge1 no, brotherhood is better.
@@projekttaku1neither are better. It’s opinionated and abstracted to your likes.
I would say that GT's whole aesthetic has more of a late 90s Anime Vibe to it than Z or OG Dragon Ball ever did. That's not to say the art style is terrible, just different.
EXACTLY
The aesthetic makes GT look more dated that Z, unfortunately.
DBZ is from the 80s my boy
@@LilUltraKataru Started in 89, but aired mostly in the 90's "my boy".
@@ThelronFjord I know right. DBGT somehow looks so old. The aesthetics of the Cell and Buu sagas still hold up and look much more modern despite being older.
It’s awesome to see so many artists on Twitter drawing characters in the classic DBZ style. It’s such a classic style that we will never see animated again
Takahashi
We've seen the classic DBZ art style nearing the end of Dragon Ball Super. Those were the best animated and best we've ever seen throughout the entire Dragon Ball series. Everything was more colorful and modern but still had the old art style we saw in Z.
@@MomoKanjaki The color is still far better in Z, Super is too garnish and gives that eyesore plastic look. They could have easily replicated the superior Z colors, it wouldn't cost extra at all.
Gt was a good direction for Vegeta, in terms of character and design. They made Vegeta go back to his cell saga look even though the theme of Vegeta’s outfits was that he’d dress more human throughout each arc.
ew no
your artstyle analysis is still easy to understand and fun to watch but i also love how youve put more comedic bits in your videos that dont subtract from the subject matter
great video!
ayee thank you!!
Yea the random memes always caught me off guard, makes them funnu asf.
@@forgottenrelics1197 fr! I was dying at the little shade of Vegeta's FORHEAD and the THICKNESS of GT. 🤣
@@MomoKanjakiyeah lmao, especially Gohan's neck
Thank you for touching on the odd chins, necks, and noses. Always stuck out in such a strange way and the effects are still felt in more modern art of the series. I am not sure why Nakatsuru was the favourite. I don't mean to be a contrarian, but I think Maeda's and Sato's approaches were always a little better in terms of design but Toriyama, like you mentioned, stopped drawing the chin line and just started extending these massive jaws downwards. The longer you look at it, the stranger it gets haha
I still think the peak style for me is the Dead Zone film. Beautiful characters, line art, with a bit of grit but has so much appeal. The characters can be sharp but have nice round eyes. I dunno, it just speaks to me as an artist xD
I think the peak artstyle is yo son goku and his friends return. The more muted colors but golden glow of the super saiyan form work so well and match z so nicely. Wonder why they didn't use it for super.
@@projekttaku1 I'll have to disagree about the peak. Not a fan of the anatomy by that point as it has the weird wide noses that super has, the poor posture where the characters heads are held forwards, the heads are a bit large for the body like a child, the short but huge traps, and I personally dislike muted colors. Color theory is huge and modern shows tend to have terrible color theory muted or not, and I feel the same about the special. I guess I'm in the minority since most dragon ball fans and artists prefer the buu era and son goku returns as the popular choice. I'll choose piccolo Jr/ dead zone/ Saiyan/ worlds strongest as my preferred style and look to the series.
@@derekstepan3888 I can understand why, I'm personally a fan of the more defined and rigid look of the buu saga and I love the super saiyan golden glow the special gives.
Then again super broly took a far more classic approach and it worked extremely well.
@@projekttaku1 all is good haha I love that the series is so unique in how it looks. Love the discussion about it all the time
I do agree that the Broly movie found a happy spot in terms of classic, buu, and modern Toriyama
Overall I like GT's approach in style, I felt like a more realistic version of DB with a few exceptions being that sometimes the necks or chin were a bit too big
nah
I always liked the rounder shaped faces a lot more! That drawing style at 3:11 is my absolute favorite for Trunks!
Could watch this stuff for hours, such cool new information about some shows I love. Would love more GT content if you’re up for it!
Thanks! The thing is GT has always been a bit of a double edge sword for me, there's very little discussion about the animation side of the series which makes it all the more interesting to cover, but at the same time, that's also because it wasn't that animated so there's not a whole a lot to talk about haha
Although, I did make a GT video earlier this year about why it's character art was consistently good so check that out if you haven't :)
@@forgottenrelics1197 I did! Yeah, GT always did disappoint me in the animation department except on rare occasions where you get beautiful stuff like in episode 63 when Vegeta gets stabbed by Omega and when Omega gets disintegrated as the dragon balls circle around his skeleton. And of course there’s Goku vs Nova Shenron.
Another thing I hated about GT was how shiny everyone’s skin looked
for me Dragon Ball GT is the best Dragon Ball as ever looked.
Agreed
Pure facts
nah
agreed the art and detail looks great not hating on Z, i love too
GT's art style always made me think of when you would draw a character without a reference pic. Like you know what that character looks like and can draw them just from a mental image, but it comes out looking slightly off in small weird ways.
Basically,the animation staff interpreted Katsuyoshi's model sheets, without the manga, to accompany it. With good to mixed results.
Great to be seeing you growing so much! Keep it up!
When it comes to the generations they have to update the graphics and animations not going to look the same
GT came directly after Z tho so it was the same target audience, unless your referring to something else lol?
This isn't a game kid this anime😂
@@dbzwarrior4321 nah dude gt updated the graphics with ray tracing which is why the character sheets have highlights
@@Seedonator i wish i could pin this
@@forgottenrelics1197 they change a generation tho, even boruto is different from naruto
You also made a video about "Why did Cell look so weird in GT" over a year ago. Love your in depth analysis.
GT’s art reminded me more of the original Dragon Ball art for some reason
Would love to see a whole big essay breakdown of how artists from Gainax evolved over time into what we have today with Studio TRIGGER.
mannnn that would be a tough one haha
i actually really liked the change in style, but it feels like they never really had the time and budget to bring out its full potential, outside of maybe the ps1 game intro. things like shimanuki's part in goku vs freeza, and the goku vs cell and ssj2 goku vs kid buu really took the character designs of their time and made them look more intense in fights with exciting choreography and high quality
The art in the Final Bout game opening is absolutely brilliant!
@@roddbroward9876 it is! but it mostly was still using DBZ character sheets
Imagine my delight after watching your best/worst episode of DBZ video and finding you have DOZENS of these uploaded. I'm too old to get into animation - I think my body literally would not tolerate it - but I love animation so much and these breakdowns are so interesting and satisfying. Thanks for all the videos so far, I'm excited to see what's to come!!
1:20 oh man i remember this music
i would listen to this paris jazz all the time in high school
I always loved the artwork since by this point i always described it to myself as the artstyle becoming more refined. The most distinctive being the buu saga and GT looking similar but unique. I always thought it looked great for the most part when i watched it.
Map Page, Jungle Hijinx and Candy's Love Song from Donkey Kong Country?! 😱 Nice choice of music
ty
@@forgottenrelics1197 Anytime
Great video. Loved the DKC music also.
I love your evolving editing style!
thanks man!
Wow I was pretty close to turning off the video at the beginning as I was thinking it would be a GT smear video. Glad it didn’t turn out that way, I think GT a wonderfully worthy sequel and ending. The team carrying on the legacy without toriyama’s guidance and they created an absolute masterpiece. I love the comedy you put in these too! Really breaks up the heavier discussion pieces well
That's my third Forgotten Relics Vid, have to sub. Your selection of video Topics just hit my nerve
this was dope, i used to sketch all the DBZ characters and always wondered why it would change so frequently. Always preferred Namek arc DBZ
freakin love how informative this channel is
Nice Video! I’m watching your vids while studying for finals!
That’s a great analysis man! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
(Before I watched the video)
Honestly, the more I look at this show's anesthetic, the more I want to this show with DBZ's color design.
For the art sytle, I think because of the lack of toriyama art beyond the first arc they sort of moved away from the stylized look into more or less of a Modern Yamamuro style, where the faces leans more into a more realistic (as in proportions) look, kinda like TMS with BTAS. I did a lot of sketches of characters that have the dragonball facial features to see how much I can pair them up with other characters that utilize another style (I.E non animes like TMNT Mirage Comics, The Tick, and Real Ghostbusters just to name a few) to see how much the styles actually clash to come to this conclusion.
love the dcau artstyle, just wish they gave it more varied lineweight and radiant lighting.
7:48 I thought when I was reading the chapter on the left, from the early Buu Saga, it looked like Cell Saga Vegeta, especially Goku. But even during the end of the Cell Saga, the designs were becoming a bit more square a wider faces. So yeah, Toriyama's designs weren't consistent during this time, until later in the Buu Saga, it remained square looking.
Good video also the colors the artists used as well for example Goku was tan in Gt for some reason while in Z he was not,Z had brighter colors but GT had darker ones.
the slow rise in memes with mr. president is very interesting
I'd love to see you talk about some shows you think are underrated in terms of animation
Blud doesn't even realize even DBZ artstyle looks so different from like Saiyan saga to Buu Saga.
Blud doesn’t realize toriyama’s art style naturally evolved over 7 years
i’ve been rewatching gt and i absolutely love it and the art style
It reminds me of how kinnikuman got a new seires in the 90s and it looks like the contrast went up and every scene takes place at the break of dawn
The thing that always stood out was the expressions Goku had. For some reason, GT made Goku look like he's smiling when he shouldn't be. His eyes would look angry, but he would have a smile. This was more a Vageta thing as it showed him as arrogant, prideful, or sadistic. Goku was none of them. So, seeing a wrong expression on Goku's face always made me question the makers of the show.
When GT came out I imagine fans felt like how I felt when Dragon Ball Super came out. Was sp excited thinking it was going to be just like DBZ but then so disappointed when it was like Space Jam 2. Everything from the art style to how they managed to make it 100x more childish and goofy. Still.. I stand by my opinion that GT was still better than Super.
Naw, i'll take Super over GT any day.
Nah Super>>>>>>GT
i’ve always been curious about yamamuro’s involvement in super. wonder if you could make a video on that
I guess I could, but at the same time I feel like there's a bit of stuff out there already detailing it. Animeajay has a good video about his work on Super, recommend checking it out :)
@@forgottenrelics1197 love both of your content but i think his video on yam was made halfway through super not detailing his contributions after the goku black arc. i was always under the impression that he wasn’t very involved in the series beyond his episode supervisions, storyboarding two episodes etc. but the other day on twitter someone listed a detail account on his contributions in the series (often by correction) on a vast amount episodes leading me to think he’s been a lot more involved in the series then most ppl like me believe. love your videos been watching for a long time
I think we are also forgetting the fact that there wasnt much animation material ref for gt. so they dint really have pictures to look back on like how they did in DBZ
Interesting video. I've always wondered that myself about GT, and what you said at the beginning, about the artstyles changing so drastically after longer periods of time despite being usually made by the same person, or team, has really made me think of mangakas in general - with Toriyama, of course, being no exception to the rule.
And I know your channel is mostly focused on the animation rather than the mangas themselves, but have you ever thought of doing more videos like the ones you did ages ago about the "evolution of Goku's design", or "Toriyama's modern art", only this time with other mangakas instead? That would be especially fun to see with artists that have been drawing the same manga for a long time now, like Oda, creator of One Piece; or even Gosho Aoyama, creator of Case Closed/Detective Conan, which despite not being nearly as popular worldwide as it should be, has still continued to go on after all these years, and as a result of that, has also faced a ton of inevitable changes in its artstyle. Most notably in the anime, which, in my opinion, looks completely awful nowadays when compared to the early seasons/movies. So maybe a video just on Conan someday would be a nice refresher as well, in case you ever decide to get familiarised with the show or manga.
But either way, nice vid again!
Thanks man and the main reason I haven't done a video like that on any other mangakas is that I honestly consume more anime than manga for one haha. And it's also just a massive task, especially since I'm a perfectionist and want to mention every minor change. Like even for DB, a series I'm most familiar with, doing those artstyle evolution vids took sooo much research. I couldn't imagine doing it for someone like Oda...
But then again, I never planned to start talking about other anime either, so who knows. Maybe 2023 me will be up for the task when he finally reads OP haha
I was just checking last night the Go Go Ackman OVA and you can see already the similarities. The big chins specially. And that was, what? 93-94?
Great to see more Dragon Ball content! We love to see more animator break downs like from Yuji Hakamada, Yoko Iizuka, Noriko Shibata and etc.
GT artwork > Super artwork
I prefer super broly more 👍
nah
Love how it starts with Rurouni Kenshin Remake now am interested
You don't know how much I enjoyed this topic! I have always wondered why the style was so different. Too bad the noses are still a mystery, though.
I love the overall late DBZ Art style the best.
Hey at 8:17 I never read that chapter but that looks like the tenkaichi 1 intro!
Thanks this was a great video !!!! Thanks for talking about GT !! :)
My mind immediately flipped to the other GT vid u did & in my head I went "didn't he alr do this y again wut's new?" Turns out pretty much the entire vid lmao. The soonest that web series may come seems to be mid to late next yr so I would jus forget bout it for now but 1 of Toriyamas' other manga is gettin adapted(presumably in the DBS: Super Hero 3DCG style based on preview art) so that's cool. Seems it'll be the sand 1(haven't read it yet) tho it'd be cool if they did the Jaco patrolman manga too
Yeah I legit forgot I ever did that GT one but at the same time I never touched on the "why" behind it so I hope this one was still interesting. With the web series tho there will no doubt be character sheets, posters or a teaser trailer of some sort that will release well before then which is what I thought I would have a chance to cover this month... but I'm sure those will come soon enough.
And with Sandland, it'll be handled by Kamikaze Douga, ANIMA, and Sunrise. I'm a little familiar with the latter studio but not the other two so I'm excited to see how it'll turn out :)
@@forgottenrelics1197 If it's those 3 then it should be in pretty good hands(I admit not the most familiar wit ANIMA tho lol)
@@nightlydata2181 yep never heard of it either until today haha
All of those drawings I’ve seen of Super with the Buu Saga/GT art style was incredible and they’re drawn digitally too
It is pretty disappointing they’re only looking for ways to make anime look cheaper
The original DBZ anime and movies really pushed how detailed hand drawn animation could be and now the style is basically gone
GT was so awesome. Super underrated.
I love the video, especially the ad read
It’s funny, as a kid I always took it as they were just making the characters look older 😂
Honestly?
Seeing how inconsistent Toriyama is in everything he does, and seeing his hit and miss ideas, I'm almost 100% sure that he was saved by his Editors, who were already known for heavily influencing the Cell arc and original DB's evolving themes.
But the Anime workers also did a great job at influencing DB's image in our heads. Including sound design.
Seriously, they may be the MVPs.
Toriyama was so lucky when creating something that got this popular, because he's had a GREAT help.
In fact, chances are he would not create DB if it wasn't for his wife in the 1st place, who straight up suggested him that he should create a kung fu-themed franchise.
Yeah his editors are quite overlooked, especially Torishima. I don't think many fans realise there would've been no Dragon Ball Z without him
AT is good when given direction but his actual ideas are garbage. His art and execution of the direction of others is the optimal combination. With him in charge it’s trash.
@@ProjectLDV I think you are downplaying Toriyama a little lol, ideas such as aging Goku up, for example, were warned against by everyone, but in the long run couldn't have been more important to the series' success.
So while Torishima was certainly instrumental to the popularity of Dragon Ball it was equally Toriyama's out there ideas, that went against industry trends such making a small child the main character of a shonen when muscle-bound adults was the standard approach or killing off the mc himself, stand out amongst other shonen.
@@ProjectLDV Lol what are you even talking about
My problem was the Tint difference
the same artist changing over time is specially true with Hirohiko Araki, creator of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, the manga at the beginning looked not much different to many other manga of the 80's, but as time progressed Araki's style changed significately, from the early part 1 looking as mentioned, the rest of part 1 until early part 4 having the style he's most recognized for, then the parts 4 to 6 kinda controversial style where he shifted from the bulky designs to the more stylized smaller characters, to part 7 to 9 where he adopted his more realistic looking style
I always loved gt art style.i liked the long faces and some scenes were drawn so amazing
The Donkey Kong music was a great touch
I never noticed the Chin length and now I can't unsee it, lol way to go man, I think it's ruined more for me than before. LOL
1:57 I swear I went back to make sure the sound was from the video. Thought something disconected from my pc
sweet analysis, do you have any notes on why the colour palate changed relative to Z?
Love this video any plans on Naruto content?
Like artstyle changing over the course of years
Comparison etc.
I do have another Naruto video planned although it isn't an art style one
@@forgottenrelics1197 Thanks Can't wait for more Naruto Content from you
I love the slight change.
It looks like someone turned the lights off in GT
To me the wider face makes sense. As humans get older our face changes and for the most part gets wider or bigger so it makes sense (to me) that they have wider faces in GT since it's them but older.
saiyans don't age till their 80s tho, they stay in their prime until then.
also looks ugly anyways so it doesn't matter.
@@projekttaku1 "saiyans don't age till their 80s tho" I find this funny cause Vegeta (this was in GT) never said an age ONLY Goku in DBS. Anyway they still age but way slower than humans, so what I'm saying still counts.
@@Lord_Dranek and goku said he said it.
Plus toriyama stated it.
They age, but only till like their 30, then they stop until their 80s where they rapidly age.
@@projekttaku1 Vegeta (GT) only said "We Saiyans retain our youth to fight longer" He never said anything about being 80 that was Goku in DBS (more DBS horseshit).
I do wish they kept vegetas original hairstyle i still dont get why they cut it.
3:32 was my fav one
You did good for this
2:43 wow the guy who drew cell...
The colors are warm, and the characters look so damn defined. It's perfect.
Where did we go wrong?
nah, hate gt's artstyle, its terrible.
Yo son goku and his friends return and super broly have way better designs.
Especially the skin tones, they are so good.
@Coffeezilla no, its not.
@@Andr3GC Yep, I wish they kept it
No it doesn’t
Those huge necks are fucking terrifying
You have made me want to play DK country
I've always wondered this too
Why the fuck did the technology in gt regressed????? Why was everything in ruins? Why was everything taking over by nature?????
Like bruh I've watching gt for long as I can fucking remember, since 2005 or longer
I'm really a fan of this type of videos. I just don't agree with the title. Something like _Dragon Ball GT VS Dragon Ball Z_ would be more fitting. Dragon Ball GT kinda follows the artstyle of the end of Dragon Ball Z and it is very consistent throughout the show (specially when compared to Cell Saga as you showed, not to say Dragon Ball Super), personally, I always loved it (just as I loved the art of the end of DBZ).
Gt looks like it's older then og dragonball
Ikr
I like GT. I remember how excited I was to learn that there was ANOTHER series.
I remember like 2001/2002 finding out about GT and trying to find SSJ4 videos on the internet. It was so difficult back then.
Yes, dragonball episode! Fascinating topic FR
Dude, you have the best topics on dragon ball, I keep saying it
thanks man, pity i'm tapped out on db videos tho hahaha, maybe in 3 months' time something will come to me again
@@forgottenrelics1197 I completely understood dude! Haha you pull from a well of ideas that are always excellent, I can’t imagine keeping up that streak 😂
My favorite Dragon Ball art style era is probably 23rd tournament - early android saga
You see it change over time but it feels natural
They also still drew the collarbone this entire time which I feel helps retain the rounder toriyama look from the early days, once the collarbone disappears everyone feels a bit too buff, specifically the kids
I think modern yamamuro would look better with the flat chest if he drew the collarbone instead of a straight line
Their muscles look like Super Saiyan 2nd grade because they're just THAT BUFF by default at this point
Flcl is probably my favorite anime, it’s a complete masterpiece
Season 2 and 3 were trash
@@schemar17 no
Well done video, I wish you can teach me how to draw dragonball
How about a style comparison of various dragon ball manga artists?
I think I already did some of those back in the day, like on Fenyo, Dragon Garrow Lee, Toyotaro etc. But then again I guess I never mentioned them all in the one video, so maybe that could be interesting. Thanks for the suggestion!
@@forgottenrelics1197 I gotta hunt for it. Your videos are awesome.
Because Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru, that's why.
Kinda, but Nakatsuru was Z's character designer as well so that doesn't explain the sudden change
4:27 Looks so familiar. Where is he from?
I would honestly take the large chins over the lack of jawlines I see in the Shintani-Super Broly movie.
This was a 10/10 video, but now it’s an 11 because you included Donkey Kong Country Music
Hey, you should try Emil Rotmayer's Deep Water.
i always loved gts animation
I Don't normally sub for style i sub for content but
Here i sub for both highkey its very enjoyable
6:46 hold up, Why is Trunks firing a gun? This dude can blow up galaxies with his Ki, he dont need no weak sauce gun, wtf.