Lancia Delta Integrale v BMW M3 E30 - Fifth Gear
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- Опубліковано 17 вер 2024
- Which past master is quickest round our track?
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Fun fact: Delta integrale won on tracks too, only it did as Alfa Romeo. The 155 V6 Ti in DTM used the Integrale 4wd base. And the Alfa team was mostly built on former Lancia rally team.
not exactly but clos: it was the 155 GTA who used the same engine and "frame" from the Integrale, and won (if i recall correctly) the 1992 italian touring championship. The 155 v6 TI has a tubolar trellis frame, different engine placing etc, it was a brand new prototype
@@atomsmasher9 you're right, the GTA was much closer to integrale, the V6 Ti had a new chassis (DTM had different rules), but the Lancia 4wd transmission was the base for the 155 Q4, and from that model to the GTA and V6 TI. That's what I read about. And you can find a great interview on Cironi channel (with english subtitles) about Lancia contribution on Alfa DTM.
@@atomsmasher9 by the way the 155 GTA won BTCC and Spanish championship too in 1994.
@@MicheleGardini si, tutto il reparto Abarth fu travasato di peso all'Alfa Romeo, in pista. E stravinse anche lì. Li avessero messi a costruire barche a vela, in sei mesi avrebbero dominato anche la coppa America. Personaggi incredibii, intelletto e capacità di gran lunga superiori alla media, e tutto patrimonio umano buttato nel cesso negli anni a venire...
@@atomsmasher9 abbiamo sperperato un patrimonio unico. Potevamo dominare delle intere ere automobilistiche ed invece eccoci qua a rimpiangere ed a vedere una F1 penosa.
I don't care which car won.. I want both!
But look at the styling. The Lancia is gorgeous, while the BMW is simply disgusting.
Both are sweeties
@Béla Bá Ha, are you kidding me? The M3 looks like it was built by some Asian kid in his garage. Those nasty bulging fenders that are completely disproportionate and out of harmony withe the rest of the body, plus all those cheap looking added on aero bits...
@@robertorolfo They both look ugly.
@@bax442 You are crazy. Only one of them has afterthought bits added on to try and make it look sporty. The M3 is lame, while the Lancia is pure class.
Bmw M3 is great too.. But Lancia Delta HF integrale is the Legendary Queen.
and remember this integrale isn't the faster integrale made 😏
delta integrale always a winner
si la prossima volta prendi quella vere di delta la martini racing 2.0 turbo 16v discendente della s4 delta integrale
Its italian rocket aha
Why get the low powered lancia ? Why not the evo , I guess u gotta make it fair for the m3
Uchiha123 Madara nothing personal there
Why get the low powered M3? Why not the sport evo? ;)
I think the Evo it’s from 1990 decade not 1980s
@@Greenaresy touché
Actually there were a further low powered version, the name was Lancia Delta HF 4wd with 8 valves engine. It was around 165 hp
Both cars are absolutely amazing, i love them both. The difference is that BMW still builts an M3 while Lancia stopped building such great cars. They really should make a new integrale to compete with Evo Lancer and Subaru STI.
there are no sti or evo to compete anymore.
глобалистам это не нужно...
They are gonna build a new one till 2028
Lancia Delta Integrale 16V > E30 M3. Can't believe even the initial 16V version beats the M3 on what should be BMW's back garden. It just goes to show that the Lancia Delta is one of the best cars ever produced, if not THE BEST!
I agree with your last sentence, because the best car ever produced is the BMW M3 E30 ;)
I like both of them: Lancia Delta is fantastic, but I prefer the M3. Despite my preference, I think that the Delta is a mile stone in this field (as the M3 E30).
Corran Helme The M3 gets beaten because it had over 170.000 miles on it. Even with an engine rebuild it wont get the full power it once had and everyone who says that it doesnt affect the engine doesnt understand that the s14 wasnt built to last it was buit to be sporty. I think the M3 would have won if it wasnt a milegrave but well never know because of the incompetence of fifth gear. It isnt hard to find a good M3 with a low mileage but if you just dont care about the shit youre sending out... On a rally course or on a wet day every E30 wil be beaten but on a track in FAIR conditions? I dont think so.
+2drivebmw pfff this lancia is not even the EVO ahah the m3 is good but come on... just lol go bck to play with ur playstation
2drivebmw cry more stupid kid hueueue u can't accept the reality even with a video ueueue playstation ueue
2drivebmw a ye and the sport evolution... lol is M DIVISION
Delta..the queen of rally
Delta HF it's a legend car.
both great cars. but id prefer the integrale :)
he was smiling while driving the bmw is sure means something!
Tiff was a track driver, not a rally one. The Integrale was foreign territory for him - he actually had to work a bit!
Lancia!!! great past and great cars!
Interesting test - on tarmac, and the Integrale still wins. Would love to see them both on the loose - all the BM would see would be dust lol!!!
would be awesome to race tiff as a end-boss in a racing game :D
RIP lancia the greatest rally car maker ever in mankind history xD
The e30 M3 is timeless. It is already a classic, it is already known as one of the best automobiles ever made. Love that Lancia though, but given the choice, I would have to go M3. Both are super special and fantastic though
fikes73 The Integrale was a 'classic' from birth. Fiorio knew he had a winner on his hands with the Delta HF 4x4, but then he uprated it into the Integrale, and the car was magnificent from the word go.
fikes73 evo 2 lancia
Delta forever, bring it back please too much shit around these days.
You can still buy a delta brand new, its dogshit but still available
Have the Integrale any day. The rally destroyer
I love German cars, but I have a weak spot for classic Italians like Lancias, Alfas and Fiats.
Actually I prefer the integrale it is amazing round corners, sure it not as exciting in a straight line because, aerodinamically speaking, it is a box but on a nice curvy mountain road it is just fabulous. And about the looks, a fire red Delta, few cars can beat that for me.
Awesome! Two legends going head to head :)
@fesen2 Well,it was the Quattro,that set off the whole concept of awd in not just rallying,but in everywhere else too.
Lancia Delta,,,fantastic engine and perfect chassis
Ma non ci vedi!!!!! Non curva manco a morire sta merda di Fiat....imbecille
Let's face it we'd all take the integrale given the choice!
I love the old Delta so much...but i love m3 too xD
two fantastic cars!
Yes
DELTA HF IS LEGEND :::::
164 super L LONG LIVE THE QUEEN
Holy shit... the 2 best cars in one Video!!!
OrkneyShootingVideos theres more on that era ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Lancia rules!!!Best ever!!
integrale for me :D
lancia for-ever!!!
Great vid but pity they didn't get an M3 of similar vintage as the Integrale. By the end of the 80s the 2.3L e30 M3 had picked up a good 20 bhp over this 1987 model. Also after 177,000 miles the M3 engine must be a little tired - though we are not told the Integrale's mileage its a younger car so probably less.
A 2.5 evo e30 M3 (upwards of 230 bhp)would have dispatched the Integrale and if memory serves they were available by 'H' reg.
In the wet though, its an Integrale all the way.
not "lanzia delta integrali" but "lancia (with C+I, pronounced like "TRUe") delta integralE, with the sound of an A, for example, in "mAn"
woah bro you need to go get that zanny bar and chill
Almost, but the E at the end of Integrale is pronounced like the A in "May," not "man." Very different.
God that Intergrale is special.
Given that the M3 is N/A and the Lancia was turbo , I think the BMW done a sterling job. They both cool cars but my heart will always go to the E30.
Both these cars are fantastic and you're set with either one in my opinion!
Lancia the one
Delta all day long. Might have been close on a track but on a British B road the M3 would have been miles behind.
the Lancia delta integrale, won 6 times the world rally champion! Bmw? Ahah
Udine Servi The E30 M3 is the worlds most successfull touring car..
Guys... the E30 M3 won a total of 18 titles across 10 different touring car championships worldwide. It won the 24hrs of Nurburgring 5 times, and the Spa 24hrs 4 times. It is easily just as legendary as the Integrale. If Tiff had a cleaner run for this lap he could've pipped the Delta. The point being is both are brilliant, capable, legendary cars with comparable performance.
+Udine Servi BMW disguised under mini brand has been winning dakars (their bikes also but i think thats not important now), sooooooooo yeah, there you go
***** So you see how these cars are both respectable and proven motorsports icons? Good.
And let's not forget the rally victories of the m3 too ;)
'H' reg means 'H' registration which refers to the year a car was first matriculated / registered in the United Kongdom.
A H registration would appear on a number plate of a UK car registered sometime between 1st August 1990 and 31st July 1991.
Love the m3, does it always kick its tail out?
My two favourite cars out of all cars combined. I want to drive both of them. Its my dream.
Ever driven a Delta Integrale? It's as counter-intuitive as it gets in that car. If you don't know how it behaves on the limit - you will get off the track. Despite the delta's awd, it does understeer. When it does, to get out you just have to floor it. May sound strange - but is a lot stranger to actually do...
Back in the late '80s, the car to have was the Sierra Cosworth !!
Lewis72 Nahhhhh, it was my nickname... :-)
Only available as LHD and in limited production, so in the UK, there were not popular or as common as the full production RHD Sapphire Cosworth.
Lewis72 i prefer the merc 190 cosworth but i do really also like the sierra
+Lewis72 only the original 2 door from 1986.
Cossie was defenseless against Lotus Omega
heh several times - actually meaning 6 years back to back WRC wins for integrale and Lancia again 5 more trumping Audi with delta 037 RWD earlier race car beating Quatro 4x4 for manufactures. If only for group B Delta S4 and untested Super sport classes a practically complete carbon fibre / kevlar Lancia Delta ECV cancelled then before invention of Group A road car and HF integrale and Evoluzione. 6xWRC. Add to that Wins after works rally ended circa 1993 in Touring car for Alfa 155 that car basically is a Lancia Delta with an Alfa body on it. Team was even named Alfa / Lancia for a while XD.
Chose a 944 turbo S over the M3 in 1988.. Wise decision.
Unless resale is a factor.
Short but absolutely nice comparison. It would be much better to compare on more chrono rounds, not just once.
I'd like to see a match between Lancia DELTA HF Integrale vs Lancia STRATOS. Thumb up if you agree the idea.
wow the m3 seems really easy to drift. it looks well mannered. great cars.
It did. I had one and was a club member when this video was made. That car had P6000 tyres on, which despite being Italian were absolute crap. Decent boots would have made the handling more neutral and taken seconds off the time, That said in the dry they would still power understeer on the faster corners easy enough to kill with a slight lift. In the slower stuff the back end would come out so you could just keep it planted.
Chalk it up to poor driving. The E30 was sideways through most of the course, especially on corner exits. Drive the car properly Tiff, like we all know you can!
Casey Lockwood oh look a fanboy
You're right :) it's good for a RWD, but for an AWD it should be over 300hp aaaand of course a good differentials that won't mess up anything using understeer ;)
Thanks to Tiff we can see this two legends race
@ZANENKAAS yeah he drifts some but dont say he can´t drive. if you dident allready know, he´s an old pro driver.. and yes i know drifting aint the way to drive if you want a quick lap.
Havnt watched this yet but that should be the Evo. That intergrale is more In-line with a top spec 325 IMO
BMW E30 M3 .. LOVE IT
I'm lucky to have both (Evo Lancia instead of the 16V)
Yeah. Loads of understeer. It must have been quite a pain to drive. The BMW looked very neutral on turn in and mid corner and with quite some exit oversteer. Which is definitely the more fun driving characteristics.
I find the Lancia a lot of more stable coming out the corners, but its to slow in the turn when going in.
The E30's weakness is coming out the turn, wobbling a little making it unstable losing power as it comes out the turn, but the E30's strength is while entering the turn and in the turn.
Both are great. Can't be one sided, I'm going for the E30 though.
An E30 M3 with 170k miles back in 2005 was probably a $7k car. Today in 2020, that’d probably be worth $50k.
The E30 M3 won more than its its share of tarmac rallies. As Casey Lockwood says, Tiff is too sideways at the corner exits - excusable only on an unfamiliar course. Fun though!
So they a car which won rallies against a car that's strictly for tarmac on tarmac - and the rally car wins?
Not too surprised actually. Toivenen showed off the same thing when he went around the F1 circuit in Portugal with the Lancia Delta S4. If the laptime of the car would have counted for qualification in the F1 race a few weeks later, he would have been 6th on the starting-grid. That car would go from 0->100km/h (62mph) in just 2.3 seconds... on gravel. Pretty crazy stuff :D
BMW's are extremely well balanced and anyone with a feel for cars can understand that the excellent weight distribution and rear wheel drive combination allows displays of remarkable driving. Less fail please.
Anyway... which would you rather been seen in? Probably why Lancia went bust in the end.
is only bmw fans butthurt about this? anyways like someone said in the comments.. rally car vs ''touring car'' so lancia was a bit in disadvantage cuz it was circuit not a dirt ground sprint, both of cars were handled no how they suposed to do
Ya, I guess you're right. It doesn't really have the right shape. But the Lancia could, if you jack up the clearance and add some floodlight in the front. Could try, im just sayin.
Delta is a legend, m3 is nothing in comparison ...
nothing in comparison lmao, just the most succesful touring car every made.
@@albertbord touring = picnik ...
they are both rally car in my perspective. E30 is for budget rally nowadays, I really wanna have one.
My favourite cars. Legendary.
not really, they should both be on the standard factory rubber that they wore when they were built (obviously new ones though) then it would be a fair test
@Mr00007 - sorry, simply not true. All race-oriented AWD systems distribute more power to the rear, resulting in oversteer, not understeer. Most modern/current dynamically adjust the power ratio, and oversteer is always preferred in race-environments, certainly when you're talking about rally, where cars go sideways in virtually any corner. In this case - the Integrale certainly is a strange beast. Also 'increasing' throttle isn't enough in the Integrale, floor it or lose it.
y dont you guys ever race the golf rally mk2 vs all this im sur we would all love to see a icon like a rally golf mk2 rip arround the trac and show what its made of
I have one lancia delta, but in Spain both cars are very adored. However the germany cars have got a strong reputation, because they are more reliable, studied,..., and the publicity do her work, for example with Mercedes, Audi, Bmw. In any case, we can't forget that Ferrari , Lamborghini, Alfa Romeo, are from Italy, perhaps this country less assess that Germany. Sorry for my limited English
The lancia would have a better time if it has a stiffer suspension.
Crazy to think that M3 wasn't even 20 yrs old when this was made. Damn cars age...
Would be nicer if the video were in the correct aspect ratio, i.e. cropped...
@Gavin756
Assuming my e30 325i is similar in handling with my autocross tires on stock suspension, yes it wants to over-steer, but good throttle control can keep it to a minimum. Mild, smooth acceleration seems to keep enough weight shifted to the rear during a corner to keep things mostly planted. Mostly. I would assume the M3 with less body roll would be more controllable which makes me think he might have been showboating a bit in this video. It is show biz after all.
OH MY GOD I LOVE VINTAGE BMW M3s
You only expect that M3 to last another 10 years? Faith in German Engineering indeed...
Exactly, I support your argument at 100%, but I look at the matter in a position non-economic but mechanical, of design. Maybe I'm studying engineering. In any case , if I would choose between them, I take Lancia. Sorry for my imperfect English, though it may not look it, is very poor.
I ain't surprised too. But you know that the S4 and this have nothing in common but the name and style, don't you?
crazy body roll!!
with todays standard in anti roll chassis both but probably more the delta, would be much faster.
Interesting how stiff todays cars are from chassis to suspension.
Idk, it's really up to the owner. If you take care of these classic cars the way that they should be taken care of, age won't be a problem. You just have to love them, cherish them, and keep them in the garage (away from the weather ;D), and they will run like clock work.
Bang on..... I have cherished my delta evo for 16 years and she continues to perform flawlessly.
@MrToxiKAvenger Dude, you are wrong. The name is LanCia Delta Integrale. Not lansia integrali as u affirm
Even with all that body roll, understeer and turbo lag, as well as it not being designed for fast circuit racing. the lancia still won, wow
The Integrale wasn't in tarmac set-up. Do that, put it on slicks, and 'good-bye' Bee-Em...
I would take the Integrale over the M3 any day of the week!
i did and had a lot of fun man miss it but happier with my mk1 gti lol
@horses343 diefferente trazione e un aspirato contro un turbo... Ti sembra poco? Quasi all'opposto.
lancia integrale,6 world rally championships.
the Lancia looks nice..i want one !!!
I'd get the e30
The 1980"s and early 1990"s were the best years 4 cars.
What a good driver! yes...pushing the limits
in fact it is the integrale...
you probably are thinking of the Evoluzione, the one with the wider bodykit... :)
@ionsunteu I agree, but there are so many variables....
well koffiezet maybe and maybe not!check Arri Vatanen in the peugeot on pikes peak gravel (on youtube)cronic understear- only the customary unsettling reverse flick will throw it into over steer- Metro 6R4's cronic understear on gravel just the same- in fact anytime a rally driver driving the older 4WD cars gets a corner wrong and doesnt unsetle the car before the corner it will understear
Delta for life ❤❤❤❤ i would trade any car for it
Both cars are loaded with mystique but performance standards are so much higher now, there's no doubt a modern-day GTI could thrash them.
@bavarac335i Nope. There was an Integrale 8v, then an Integrale 16v, after that was the Integrale 16v Evo, then the Integrale 16v Evo II. It's true, then, that all Evos are 16v but not all 16v Integrales are Evos.
The E30 M3 is the original and best M3.
Thought it must be said that the E46 with it's straight 6 was a proper BMW too.
@SinergyCOB I hear you, man. Let's buy them in common so i can have the delta in the summer and the M3 in the (slightly hot sicilian) winter!
M3 would never keep up with the integrale even though it's a great car
@somthingugly it is an evo because the first edition lancia delta hf integrale was 2.0 8V and not 16V the first 16V is an evo and so ohn... thats whay this anit fair because bmw M3 e30 also had EVO 1 and EVO 2(sport evo 2 238 bhp
)