Hi , thanks very much for the very informative video , I live in Lochhead Cottage just a 150 yds from Mechans grave . I can just imagine the Vikings resting in front of my house and 20 or so Longboats .But they must have been pretty exhausted running up the hills towards Otter Ferry , looking forward to part 2!
Great vid, awesome subject! I came across this battle researching my mother’s maiden name of “ Black “,and the Lamont Clan, and could not find that much more about it. My research has since revealed that it doesn’t actually look like we are related to the Blacks of Garvie/Lamont’s but I fell in love with the clan and area anyhow. Thank you for the details and graphics! They were great.
Thanks, Jason! Castle House Museum in Dunoon is running and exhibition on the Blacks/Lamonts this summer. May not be your branch of the family, but you might find something useful there. They're basing it on a donation of the compiled histories of the Lamont clan.
Ah...ha! You acutally made the video...probably was on your things to get to list anyway... So, we have what was the popular version based on the best guessing of that day...Now I'm curious as to what has been said since then, when we have discovered since then, if anything, and as you mentioned, what is a more likely story... This is fantastic...Thanks! Really looking forward to the next installment! :) (Hat-tip: This month's installment of the CCSNA Journal ahs an article about what might be a Holy well on that same hillside (Kildalvan/Kilbridemore)...I thought I recalled there was more than one. Allegedly kildalvan has what might have been a "little chapel" near one of it's wells, I'm wonderin if they are on and the same, givem the specualtion about the chapel claim?)
Again thank you for taking the time Derek, I apologize for the 'spell-check' from my computer here in the US, I do know how to spell "Loch Riddon" I was so busy correcting the spell-check on "Tighnabruaich" that I missed the one on 'Riddon'! It drives me nuts, back home it would be the Oxford Dictionary correcting Scottish Gaelic spelling but here it's double confounded by the US Webster Dicionary!!
@CR Campbell thank you :) Good to see that you caught on that I presented this video very much as 'Archibald Brown's version'! I agree that for his day he did some excellent research and produced a strong theory for what he found. Since then, his ideas seem to have been set aside unfortunately. By the mid 20th century, academia had moved forward. To explain the difficulties in the various sources on the 918 battle, an historian called Wainwright theorized that there were two battles between Ragnall and Constantine, one being fought at Corbridge, with a second fought either again at Corbridge or at some other unnamed location, with possibly both engagements being confusingly fought in the same year. By the 21st century, Downham and Woolf have rationalised this view to there being a single battle, fought at Corbridge. In part two of my videos on the Danish invasion of Cowal, I'll put forward the reasons why I think there's an argument for the battle taking place in Ormidale in Cowal rather than at Corbridge down in Northumberland. If I don't go down in flames for going up against Woolf and Downham, then the final part will tell the story of the battle based on a modern interpretation of the clues in the landscape, together with modern analysis of the accounts in the early sources. Lets see how much the weather changes in the next ones...
Thank you, always enjoy your educational videos. You mention the grave site of a Danish prince or 'Jarl' but you thought it may be just a myth. Quire a few years ago my Father (a local photographer) covered the unearthing of a large stone with some kind of viking engraving on it. Supposedly marking the death a Viking lord or king. This was discovered during the construction of the 'new' road to Tighnabruaich at the head of Loch Ridden at Ormadale. At the time, they said the inscription was to do with the Battle of Largs when a wounded viking lord or important member of the viking army that lost made their way up Loch Ridden to give this personage a viking burial, burning his galley. I may be mixing up two stories, this one and yours. Can you elaborate.
Thanks, Hamish! The account I have from Archibald Brown dismisses the grave as being Viking. The oldest source he found for it was late 18th century, whereas the Glendaruel Parish records recounting the battle went back much farther. Its association with Magnus Barelegs' son probably also made it easy for him to dismiss as he believed he'd proved that it was a different Viking King who fought here. I had heard from some of the older history buffs in Dunoon that someone had lifted a rock at Meckan's grave in the 1970s(?) to see what was there, but nothing was found. Your account of this is very different indeed, and fascinating! I'd love to see what engravings they found - especially if there're any pictures surviving? A Viking burial for a lord wounded or killed at Largs is always going to be a possibility, but from what I know of the battle, the Viking fleet had just been mauled by a storm whilst beached on the shore. Serviceable longships would've been few and far between to waste on burning them before the long voyage home. The Vikings were Christianised by then as well, so any Viking carvings would've included Christian crosses, which would probably have been mentioned in your father's account. The modern interpretation of the Annals of Ulster's contemporary record of the 918 battle is that Oitir and Gragaba weren't places, they were the 'two jarls' who went down in the slaughter. If there is any water in the story of the Vikings pushing back in to respectfully bury a great leader, I'd imagine it would be for one of them - Oitir was the most prominent of the two. There's a good chance that in 918 the Vikings involved wouldn't have been Christianised yet either, so any Viking markings could've been carved by their followers. Who knows though, eh? It adds more depth to the story though. Many thanks!
@@cowalhistory7598 Thank you for quick reply, I have to go thru' my Dad's archives to find the photos (actually negs) he took of the exposed rock with engravings on it. At the time, they thought it was a wounded-dying viking that left the battle of Largs mortally wounded and his men took him up what is now Loch Ridden. But I'm writing from shaky memory. This story he covered for the local paper, so to date it, it would have been (as I say) during the building of the road, I'm guessing the 60's.
Martin Nichol I agree! As the video shows, I've got problems with elements of Archibald Brown's version and as the next video I hope to do on this will show, I think the focus of the fighting was much more focused on Crudail and Ormidale. Archibald Brown was pretty vague on his reasons for the invasion, but more modern historians have suggested the Danes were looking for a permanent base in the west of the Northern British mainland at this time. In 918, the kingdom of Alba was only two decades old and they didn't have territorial control over the west coast. Its a possibility that Ragnall brought such a large army here as he was eyeing Cowal to establish a base such as those he controlled in Dublin or Waterford in Ireland. In fact, he may already have done this - perhaps the reason he knew that Constantine was there and that he brought such an enormous fleet was in an effort to recapture his foothold which an increasingly powerful Constantine and his Albans had only recently occupied? Meh, you pay your money, you make your choices...
Hi , thanks very much for the very informative video , I live in Lochhead Cottage just a 150 yds from Mechans grave . I can just imagine the Vikings resting in front of my house and 20 or so Longboats .But they must have been pretty exhausted running up the hills towards Otter Ferry , looking forward to part 2!
Great video!! Good to see you uploading again.
Fantastic video.. looking forward to part 2..
A fantastic channel.. !!
Excellent content, keep up
Great vid, awesome subject! I came across this battle researching my mother’s maiden name of “ Black “,and the Lamont Clan, and could not find that much more about it. My research has since revealed that it doesn’t actually look like we are related to the Blacks of Garvie/Lamont’s but I fell in love with the clan and area anyhow. Thank you for the details and graphics! They were great.
Thanks, Jason! Castle House Museum in Dunoon is running and exhibition on the Blacks/Lamonts this summer. May not be your branch of the family, but you might find something useful there. They're basing it on a donation of the compiled histories of the Lamont clan.
@@cowalhistory7598 Thank you I will keep an out for that.
Thank you for this ..the untold history of our country.
Brilliant account Derek. Really brings the history of Otter Ferry and Glendaruel to life. Many thanks 🙏
Thank you - most appreciated :)
Ah...ha! You acutally made the video...probably was on your things to get to list anyway... So, we have what was the popular version based on the best guessing of that day...Now I'm curious as to what has been said since then, when we have discovered since then, if anything, and as you mentioned, what is a more likely story... This is fantastic...Thanks! Really looking forward to the next installment! :)
(Hat-tip: This month's installment of the CCSNA Journal ahs an article about what might be a Holy well on that same hillside (Kildalvan/Kilbridemore)...I thought I recalled there was more than one. Allegedly kildalvan has what might have been a "little chapel" near one of it's wells, I'm wonderin if they are on and the same, givem the specualtion about the chapel claim?)
Again thank you for taking the time Derek, I apologize for the 'spell-check' from my computer here in the US, I do know how to spell "Loch Riddon" I was so busy correcting the spell-check on "Tighnabruaich" that I missed the one on 'Riddon'! It drives me nuts, back home it would be the Oxford Dictionary correcting Scottish Gaelic spelling but here it's double confounded by the US Webster Dicionary!!
@@hamishyuile6289 I have that issue myself...but I almost never catch any of them...lol
@CR Campbell thank you :) Good to see that you caught on that I presented this video very much as 'Archibald Brown's version'! I agree that for his day he did some excellent research and produced a strong theory for what he found. Since then, his ideas seem to have been set aside unfortunately. By the mid 20th century, academia had moved forward. To explain the difficulties in the various sources on the 918 battle, an historian called Wainwright theorized that there were two battles between Ragnall and Constantine, one being fought at Corbridge, with a second fought either again at Corbridge or at some other unnamed location, with possibly both engagements being confusingly fought in the same year. By the 21st century, Downham and Woolf have rationalised this view to there being a single battle, fought at Corbridge. In part two of my videos on the Danish invasion of Cowal, I'll put forward the reasons why I think there's an argument for the battle taking place in Ormidale in Cowal rather than at Corbridge down in Northumberland. If I don't go down in flames for going up against Woolf and Downham, then the final part will tell the story of the battle based on a modern interpretation of the clues in the landscape, together with modern analysis of the accounts in the early sources. Lets see how much the weather changes in the next ones...
Great wee film. Works for me. And Cowal weather? Changeable or what!
Euan Ross, thanks! The blizzard and the sunshine on Otter Ferry were within 10 minutes of each other! Glad I brought a coat...
Thank you, always enjoy your educational videos. You mention the grave site of a Danish prince or 'Jarl' but you thought it may be just a myth. Quire a few years ago my Father (a local photographer) covered the unearthing of a large stone with some kind of viking engraving on it. Supposedly marking the death a Viking lord or king. This was discovered during the construction of the 'new' road to Tighnabruaich at the head of Loch Ridden at Ormadale. At the time, they said the inscription was to do with the Battle of Largs when a wounded viking lord or important member of the viking army that lost made their way up Loch Ridden to give this personage a viking burial, burning his galley. I may be mixing up two stories, this one and yours. Can you elaborate.
Thanks, Hamish! The account I have from Archibald Brown dismisses the grave as being Viking. The oldest source he found for it was late 18th century, whereas the Glendaruel Parish records recounting the battle went back much farther. Its association with Magnus Barelegs' son probably also made it easy for him to dismiss as he believed he'd proved that it was a different Viking King who fought here. I had heard from some of the older history buffs in Dunoon that someone had lifted a rock at Meckan's grave in the 1970s(?) to see what was there, but nothing was found. Your account of this is very different indeed, and fascinating! I'd love to see what engravings they found - especially if there're any pictures surviving?
A Viking burial for a lord wounded or killed at Largs is always going to be a possibility, but from what I know of the battle, the Viking fleet had just been mauled by a storm whilst beached on the shore. Serviceable longships would've been few and far between to waste on burning them before the long voyage home. The Vikings were Christianised by then as well, so any Viking carvings would've included Christian crosses, which would probably have been mentioned in your father's account. The modern interpretation of the Annals of Ulster's contemporary record of the 918 battle is that Oitir and Gragaba weren't places, they were the 'two jarls' who went down in the slaughter. If there is any water in the story of the Vikings pushing back in to respectfully bury a great leader, I'd imagine it would be for one of them - Oitir was the most prominent of the two. There's a good chance that in 918 the Vikings involved wouldn't have been Christianised yet either, so any Viking markings could've been carved by their followers. Who knows though, eh? It adds more depth to the story though. Many thanks!
@@cowalhistory7598 Thank you for quick reply, I have to go thru' my Dad's archives to find the photos (actually negs) he took of the exposed rock with engravings on it. At the time, they thought it was a wounded-dying viking that left the battle of Largs mortally wounded and his men took him up what is now Loch Ridden. But I'm writing from shaky memory. This story he covered for the local paper, so to date it, it would have been (as I say) during the building of the road, I'm guessing the 60's.
I lived in Otter Ferry for 9 years.
Interesting story but sounds far too complicated for a smash and grab raid.
Martin Nichol I agree! As the video shows, I've got problems with elements of Archibald Brown's version and as the next video I hope to do on this will show, I think the focus of the fighting was much more focused on Crudail and Ormidale. Archibald Brown was pretty vague on his reasons for the invasion, but more modern historians have suggested the Danes were looking for a permanent base in the west of the Northern British mainland at this time. In 918, the kingdom of Alba was only two decades old and they didn't have territorial control over the west coast. Its a possibility that Ragnall brought such a large army here as he was eyeing Cowal to establish a base such as those he controlled in Dublin or Waterford in Ireland. In fact, he may already have done this - perhaps the reason he knew that Constantine was there and that he brought such an enormous fleet was in an effort to recapture his foothold which an increasingly powerful Constantine and his Albans had only recently occupied? Meh, you pay your money, you make your choices...
Narrator really ought to work on his vocal technique .
Swallows a lot of his words and speaks far too quickly in
drab , undramatic monotone.
Thanks for your kind words. Have a nice day!
You're too polite Derek. 😅