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Fanatec DD2 vs Clubsport 2.5 Wheel Base (CSW 2.5) Side by Side in iRacing
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- Опубліковано 3 січ 2020
- Quick comparison and initial impressions of upgrading from a CSW2.5 to a DD2. All FFB settings are using the recommended settings from Fanatecs forums (forum.fanatec..... DD2 also has the torque key installed and high torque mode enabled.
Now that is a clear and concise comparison/review, thanks man.
Can't believe some guys talk for hours and fail to establish clear comparisons.
sevach lol right
AMEN, I can't believe how good and informative this video was.
Same here. Loved the fact that this was concise and to the point. Exactly what I needed. I've been eyeing a possible upgrade to a CSW 2.5 from a 1.1 but wasn't sure if the DDX series was the better way to go or if it would be worth it.
Very refreshing when a video like this just gets straight to the point, thank you great job!
You cannot get more concise than that!
Thanks. Very clear that I don't need a DD yet. I can't use my csw2.5 on 100% ff. It's too strong for my liking. I mostly set it at 70%
Glad to help
I tried AMS 2 with my CSW V2.5 and the detail is amazing. But It's the first time I noticed I liked more power. I think because normally I set the power to around 75%, and in AMS 2 the FFB was higher at default, and I really liked it. Plus I noticed clipping in R3E also from time to time. So decided to go for the DD and the new Porsche wheel. I don't expect to detail to be much more, but we'll see. Nevertheless the CSW V2.5 is the best bang for buck if you ask me
+1 yes plz
It’s nice to see a honest non-sponsored review! Thx for posting. Had mine CSW for the last year and considering switching to a DD2 (wanted more detail and also be able to use the new Porsche endurance module)...
Thanks for the comment. The increased details was very subtle imo and that's probably more a credit to CSW than a negative to the DD2. The power difference is massive though so if you're at all running into clipping with the CSW and missing the power the DD2 (or DD1) would easily handle whatever increased force you want.
Short video but man to the point ! Respect ! A lot better then a video duration of 10 hours explaining. 😄👍
Thanks, I appreciate it!
Perfect video, for the purpose of comparison. Thanks man.
Thanks man, appreciate it.
Wow, your arms and legs grew from just a few days on the DD2! :D
lol yeah i tried to get everything to be the same but of course I had to move the camera to install the DD2 and couldn't get everything lined up exactly.
@@Symes1984 I lift weights. Damn I was just going to skip the gym and do sim racing forever :)
Honestly if you turn the DD2 even up to 50% torque and do any lengthy session it feels like cardio.
@@Symes1984 I’m going for DD2.
2 for the price of 1.
1= Simracing
2=Fitness
🏁🏁🏁
I'm still on the fence... On to the next video. Thanks man.
I'm def happy to see the detial coming from the dd but back then the wheel was nothing like it is now on the latest drivers ots a completely different animal and is so so so so much better lol it took them a while to get the drivers just right and man it sucks these videos people look at and think ahh see it isn't worth it when In reality these weren't even half way to there potential yet the dd1 and dd2 now have much more detail they just feel better then before
I sold my csl elite ps4 a few days ago and I miss it already. I hooked up my cswv2.5 and I really like it its definitely better. My dd2 will be here in 2days.
You received your dd2, is the difference huge vs the csl elite ?
Is csw less noisy than csl? I mean clunky sounds. Rattle noises.
@@igorkmn8566 it doesn't seem clunky to me. It seems extremely smooth. Yes better and smoother than csw.
@@blaxe5990 um it depends. I think its a worth while step up above the csl. It's so much more smooth and like 1 to 1 with the sim. I can get the car to do what I want to to do but couldn't with csl elite as much. There is no noticeable notchieness
Xterno50 it’s much more preferable to have a rig (frame with a seat)
Beautiful video mate. Very informative
Thanks a lot, appreciate it.
thanks saved me a few grand
Thanks mate you’ve just saved me £1500
that is a great review. you got the point across and I didn't have the feeling I was watching a youtube commercial/content creator benefactor. thanks everyone should give this a like
Hi Kevin, thanks a lot, appreciate the feedback...pun intended :)
wow ! efficient and effective thats pretty rare, thnk you ❤️
PERFECTION
As a man of few words, I appreciate your concise video.
Thank you sir, appreciate the comment and hope it helped.
@@Symes1984 Very big help actually. I think I will go for the CSW 2.5 when I eventually upgrade from my G29, as I don't need power.
Great video, thanks! 💪🏽I was wondering where I can find your CSW 2.5 / iRacing wheelbase settings? 😃
Hi Wesley, thanks for the comment. I was having mostly the recommended settings from fanatec you can find here:
forum.fanatec.com/discussion/653/iracing-pc-fanatec-recommended-settings
Thanks man this was a very straight to the point video. Exactly what I was looking for as I care more about response. Do you also happen to have an opinion on the csl elite to the csw?
Hi. Thanks for the comment and for watching. Unfortunately I don’t have any experience with the CSL, first wheelbase I had was the CSW and then the DD2. I’ve read a lot of positive comments on the CSL especially if you get the pedals and add the load cell.
As a previous owner of a clubsport wheel I don’t see how people say it’s a “subtle” difference. Try going back to the clubsport a few months after using a direct drive. Direct drive is far more precise and responsive. There are situations like when the rear is stepping out where there is a major difference and it’s enough to save it in iracing where you would’ve spun out before. It’s like it gets rid of that on ice feeling iracing was known for.
CSW v2.5 is my next planned upgrade (assuming they don't refresh it again before I buy). I have considered the DD1 but the wheelbase and shaft combined are just too long from front-to-back for me to accommodate in my rig without having to compromise my screen position too much. CSW is so compact in that regard.
Awesome review dude!
Thanks man, appreciate it.
thanks for the feedback!
Ordered the CSW with formula v2 rim, upgraded from a T300RS, I think for now ive chose the correct wheel!
On a desk, I'm about to race I'll get back to you!
Been playing with it all day, it's more direct than a t300rs, and I have it mounted on a sturdy purpose built desk, I bought 2 G clamps which cost £5 and do a great job, solid as a rock,do not buy a fanatec table clamp, a big waste of money!
@@xterno500 how long have you go to wait?
@@Cagefightercan you Tell me witch exact Table clamps you bought? Im going to buy a Clubsport too😊
I noticed that at least for me, with higher ffb comes more information. Above certain levels you loose steering precision and reaction time as steering becomes more of a struggle. Recently I did an experiment in Assetto Corsa and recorded a run hitting nearly max Nm in DD2 for over 35 minutes on the track. I thought I would make more mistakes and loose more in laptimes towards the end but it wasn't that bad. I was all sweaty though after finishing :) DD2 can be a small gym indeed.
Definitely is a mini workout. I had read before purchasing the DD2 that you should let go of the wheel before heavy impacts during crashes and didn’t think I’d be able to remember to do so. It only took a few turns before the power of the wheel was scary enough that it was natural to let go of there was a big impact coming. Amazing power from this smallish devices.
Symes 1984 Yup, compact yet mighty devices. Even sausage curbs were brutal in the settings I used. It felt like punishmentI so it made me even more to stick to cleaner line in order to avoid these 🙂 Have good fun with your DD wheel!
What is the purpose of having so much power to fight against? Is this considered realistic?
stratus In many setups - NO but it's still fun to have an alternative choice 😉 In some setups, high torque + margin for effects without clipping is essential for being realistic - look vintage F1 era or IndyCar for example. I prefer to have more then less power, I do not have to use 100% every time. I don't know maybe it's because of my age (4 digit in the front) First road cars I drove didn't have power steering at all 🙂
@@AlexM-of6hq Look at real GT3 racecars/racedrivers onboard videos... Circuit SPA they are fighting with the wheel in every corner if they push really hard. So imo Fanatec simulates this very well together With Assetto Corsa Competizione.
Does the rim ever creak when applying twisting loads on the rim. Mine one creaks does yours ?
No mine doesn’t creak. The wheel and wheelbase are both nearly silent. Oddly the loudest noise is coming from the fan on the power strip of the wheelbase.
Thank you.
You're welcome!
What was clipping like for you? I just got my CSW V2.0 (not 2.5 7nm instead of 8NM I believe) can you feel like an actual clip? Like the wheel snags while turning or is more like the feeling of what’s being provided gets overwhelmed and kinda just goes crazy and doesn’t tell you what’s going on? Or possibly both? My forcefeed back feels insanely high but at the same time it doesnnt I’m little confused tbh especially when I pass threw the center it does a little click I think I gotta add tape to the top where the groove is.
Back when I was using the CSW and the Ff meter in iracing would show clipping it just felt to me like there was just one long tug the wheel. It was impossible to catch a spin or feel the car doing anything once it started clipping.
Thanks so much for this - nice, short and to the point. I've been using a Thrustmaster T500 base for many years and am considering an upgrade to the V2.5 - just can't justify the expensive of the DD1 or DD2, any idea how big a jump the V2.5 is over that? I assume it's rather large and will be worth it but wish there was a way I could test them side-by-side.
Did you sell your v2.5? If not would you entertain an offer???
Hey man thanks for the watch. Unfortunately the first wheel base I ever used was the csw 2.5 so I can’t compare it to the T500. I’ve read a lot of reviews talking about how big a difference it is vs something like a g29. The nm on the torque is is about 4nm and the csw is 7.3 so at a minimum it would give you a stronger response. I didn’t sell my csw but I’m gonna hold onto it and setup a second sim at some point, or at least that’s the plan lol.
I just upgraded to v2.5 from t300rs. The belt drive system is 100 times smoother on v2.5 versus the t300. Plus the FFB is way stronger. Overall I'm happy with this upgrade.
@@jonathant4280 I've just ordered a CSW 2.5 from a t300rs with a formula v2 rim, that's what I wanted to hear, is the t300rs a toy compared to the CSW?
t500 feels spongy, weak and plastic. It becomes hot quickly
CSW2 is solid as a rock, feels heavy and accurate. It's definitivly a good upgrade
Thd problem with fanatec is that they got a really slow start with alot of problems. I've had all Fanatecs gear just about in the year of 2020 and never had and issue and I still went to somucube 2 pro. I would say that the csw2.5 is the best overall wheelbase to date. There is no reason at all to upgrade if you have one. Just rock it till the wheels fall off. Get some high end pedals instead. If I could redo things I would have gotten 16hundred dollar pedals I stead of the dd2. BTW its a great wheelbase its just not necessary at all because the 2.5 is fo good. It even can fell better sometimes.
Totally agree, the added strength of the DD1/2 was the only real tangible benefit of the switch from CSW2.5 to DD. Everything else was extremely minor.
Great review
Happy to hear that dd2 is not worth upgrading from csw
I will live with my csw
well he says it depends
Awesome honest review while every body else saying its a Hugh step up from the 'CSW 2.5 to DD you just said what its.....but i wanted how many millisecond's difference in response time between the two?
Hi Ahmed, thanks for the comment. I don't have any measurements on that, just whatever I could feel through the wheel.
Great video
Thanks :)
So I'm looking for realism in force feedback. I am very new to this. Should start with the CSW 2.5 or jump right into the DD2. I worried about having regrets on the Force Feedback. These cheap wheels online TMX and G29 have not impressed me and I returned them as that is where my friend told me to start. I'm looking for the most affordable realistic feeling driving. I will be using this in a varied of simulation and arcade racing games.
I personally couldn't tell much of a difference in the detail or 'feel' of the force feedback between the CSW and DD when they are both putting out similar torque numbers. If you like a strong wheel and a lot of force though the DD would be best. If you plan on getting the DD and keeping the torque levels down near CSW you probably won't be able to tell much of a difference between the two.
Does the DD2 making noises when you use high torque and FEI 100 ? And when you go over curbs and crashing does it make loud noises or is it even then quite ?
I ask this because my Fanatec CSL Elite makes some really annoying “knocking” sounds over curbs... If I put FEI at 0 then the knocking sounds are gone but then the wheel feels too loose too smooth which I don’t like. FEI at 100 feeling is Ok but then the knocking noises comes again.
Mainly Because of that and for the clipping I get and the higher torque I wanna upgrade to DD2 only if it’s quite...
So I really need your answer on this 🏁💯 Thanks in advance
Hi, my DD2 is completely silent. I do have a VR headset on when I drive so it blocks out a lot of noises but the CSS had an audible fan whereas my DD2 is totally silent. The only noise is from the power supply which has a fan that is barely audible. I would open a ticket with Fanatec as it sounds like your unit might have a problem.
@@Symes1984 This is nice to hear that it is silent. Now my decision is 100% made. Going for the Podium DD2. Just some more saving.
And Fanatec already stated that the “knocking” sounds are completely normal and no indication for defects... They stated that it was the characterics of a belt driven wheelbase.
Anyway I used the CSL Elite around 6 Months did a overall good job. But yeah my hands and arms get stronger by the 6 Nm so I need more now and 25 Nm of the DD2 is more then enough I think... let the muscles grow 💪 😀
PS: You stated in this video that you like a strong wheel... How much torque do you use then ? The full 25 Nm or less ?
Hi again, you’ll be really happy with the power the dd can put out. I was clipping constantly on the CSW. It depends on the car but I usually run between 9nm and 12nm. Even at those strengths hitting a wall is scary and can injure wrists and fingers but it’s nice knowing there is plenty more force available if needed.
@@Symes1984 Man I can’t wait to get one DD2. I really never felt anything with high torque. My max is 6 Nm but yeah 12 Nm is the double so it would be nice. And I like that scary thing because then I would drive extra careful on Mount Panorama Bathurst... The place where all the walls are 😀
And even the DD1 is enough with 20 Nm but like you said the extra power that is available is a good thing and when buying the DD2, the killswitch is included which is 100 Euro as standalone and the warranty is 3 Years on DD1 and 5 on DD2 which gives me trust because it’s a lot money 1500 Euros for DD2.
Thanks really for your replies ! Gave me really more insight about the DD2 🏁💯
Does the CSW provide enough feedback when you are about to spin or helps you feel the braking better going into a corner vs the DD1/DD2?
I am stepping back from the money train and am deciding if I should save the money by getting the CSW and take the extra money and apply it to HE Ultimate pedals instead. Thanks for your reply and video!
Hi Robert, imo the CSW provides nearly the same information as the DD2, just at a much lower strength (when the DD2 is turned 'up'). The CSW is great and should give you all the information iRacing is sending as long as it's turned down enough to avoid clipping. If you like a stronger wheel then you'll have to choose between losing information when it clips or a weaker wheel with all the info. If really strong/powerful force feedback isn't something you're after then the CSW is a great wheel base.
Thanks for the reply, M8! I have been racing using G27's and a G29 and I know the CSW is stronger than those wheels. I can live without having to go to the gym every day! As long as I feel the car moving in the incorrect way and can get away from having to use the audio system telling me something is happening then I am good with that. Thanks for the quick reply!
Hello, could someone explain to me in words / text the explanation of the video, I don't understand English very well. Thank you
Don't waste your money on a DD wheel. The difference is not that much.
@@aarongreen121 thanks
@@JackM12345 Thank you!
Do you know that playing forza horizon 4 with csw 2.5 bmw gt2 has no feedback at all? How to adjust? I don't know how to train to have the ability to give back. It was originally.
Hi Ka, I haven't tried any of the Forza games with my CSW. I play strictly on PC now but i did previously have it hooked up to an xbox one and didn't have any FFB issues, however, i only played the F1 series of games. The only thing that comes to mind is to make sure you have the CSW in 'xbox' mode.
@@Symes1984 Thank you for your reply. I don’t know why there is no feedback, but it was normal when I just played.
Or to sum it up: "If your last name is... *scrapes throat for mr. May immigation*... CLARKSON!!! Who can't help but scream for POWER!!! on every occassion... get a DD2" 🤣👍😎
Thats basically me
Anyone have the best or pretty good settings to eliminate clipping?
I am considering between CSL ELITE , CSW 2.5, DD1. I never tried any. in my case, for example, if power is strong enough for CSW 2.5 , then its not worth buying DD1? how about like response and smoothness etc difference? sorry about poor english though
Hi Bongi, yeah in my opinion, the difference in response time, smoothness, accuracy are very subtle and not as impactful as you would expect for the price difference. The CSW will clip pretty quickly if you start to increase the strength though so if you like a lower strength wheel the CSW will be more than adequate.
How did you mounted your csw2.5 with a front mount? Because Fanatec doesn't say anything about a front mount only with a wheeldeck. Ive mailed with them and they said Its a really bad idea to use my csw2.5 with a front mount
Hi Casper, I used the front bracket from Sim Lab that is available with their P1 chassis. I didn’t check with Fanatec in if it was ‘ok’ or not, rather I just assumed it was. It worked perfectly fine and felt completely stable. If I had checked with Fanatec I would’ve probably followed their advice but the front mount worked like a champ for me.
@@Symes1984 Oke, because im gonna buy the P1-X. And as you know I can choose between front mount and wheeldeck. So what should you recommend?
I wouldn’t want to recommend against the official word from Fanatec but I can say if I needed to use my csw again I would use the front mount without any concerns.
How do I make the wheel more able to drift? The dd2
If you have fanalabs you can play around with the setting in there. They have several settings for damper, friction, inertia and sensitivity. They take affect without having to restart either the wheel or game so it's quick to change until you find a setting you like. I would start with the recommended settings on fanatec's site for whatever game you are using.
I heard something about Clubsport 2.5 rattle noise when driving over curbs or something. Would I be waking up my wife next door with this Wheel Base? :D Thanks.
Hey Man, no there wasn’t any noise from my csw due to thr ffb effects, it was pretty quiet, there is a fan that runs that can be heard but it’s not that loud.
@@Symes1984 Thank you very much! All the best :)
What ever pedals your using got your calves jacked
ClubSport Pedals :) Thanks man
what is better ?
You said without clipping what is clipping in a wheel base? anyone?
Here is a thread that has a few responses that go into it:
www.reddit.com/r/simracing/comments/51j7b0/so_what_does_clipping_feel_like_exactly/?
funny... so DD2 have 25nm vs 8.5 in CSW 2.5 and you said you felt dd2 is stronger
Strength was the only benefit I found, the ‘detail’ and ‘responsiveness’ were not anything I felt were any better or worse on the dd2.
Hey where did you get your gloves?
Hey Paul, I picked them up here:
www.subesports.com/products/cat/racing+gloves/brand/puma
@@Symes1984 thanks, have you updated to the 356 drivers? are you having a better experience with the DD2 now that youve had it for a bit?
Hi Paul, I'm still on the 352 drivers but they have been working perfectly for me. Really enjoying the DD2 still and glad i upgraded. My initial opinions are basically the same as they are now, the added 'detail' and 'response' are very subtle and not worth the upgrade over the CSW on their own. The added power though is night and day and worth it in my case (prefer a real strong wheel).
CSWv2.5 it is for me then.
Good call, the 2.5 is a great wheelbase
@@Symes1984 I have the elite ps4 but I'm going to be moving to pc and keep my elite only for ps4. I'll use the cswv2.5 for the pc
why am I watching this, just upgraded to a csl elite...
Upgrades never end my man.
....Simple
What is clipping?!
Hi Ahmed, here is a good description of it: steamcommunity.com/app/234630/discussions/0/535150948595870452/
@@Symes1984 WOW superb thanks for sharing
put a pop filter on your mic