love how peoplke vote "no" for just testing this new mechanism. Why not give it a try in dev server and see how it works ? All problem you said would be much more convincing if they actually turn up in testing .
@@DawgIVLifeOk how about they test it and introduce it as the next big update would you prefer that? Pretty sure most of the voters will complain about "why they didn't let us test it first?". And so the Neverending bonding attempts between the Snail and its playerbase continues.
Wait.... thats your reason why you dont want them to test this? .....all because they asked if the playerbase wanted it tested? Bruh... why does that matter?????? Please explain your logic. @@DawgIVLife
@@SHEEPS_123 If you watched the video I clearly said I think having weakspots in War thunder is a positive I don't like unkillable tanks which this change would lead to since they clearly pointed out in the dev blog that small weakspots like cupolas would be effected by this change.
@@Haaton-of-the-Basement they have dev servers even one coming up very soon for a new major update they could have just made a mode with the new system with preset lineups so they don't have to mode each APHE in the game just the ones which they think would create issues in the new APHE change. Then ask a clear Yes or No poll instead of asking a question if they should even test the idea.
They def need to buff solid shot to be on the level of APHE. I try playing my British/French tanks and they're so miserable to play. Unless you hit the ammunition it's at miniumum 2-4 shots to kill tanks that tanks with APHE can kill in one hit. Also, a lot of the French/British shells have terrible angle performance so you can't even pen T-34/M4A2 frontal slopes.
The cupolas of the T95 used to not fuze APHE and it never moved from 7.0 for years. The argument that now it can be killed by literally anything and is complete garbage therefore it’s “only” 7.0 is hogwash. The current APHE system is crap because of this weakspot system. Tanks like T32E1, T95, Tortoise, etc are all trash BECAUSE of how APHE works. I will happily cuck lazy APHE users to bring back an armor meta. Besides, everyone who doesn’t get APHE doesn’t get a death sphere. This only benefits specific nations at specific BRs currently.
@@DawgIVLife For like one micropatch out of the 9 years it's been around? It has spent the vast majority of its life at 7.0. What do we have right now? T95 at 7.0, Leopard 1 at 8.0.
If you know how warthunder matchmaker works a full up tier for the T95 means it can only see a total of 4 8.0s if you move the vehicle to just 7.3 now it can see a full team of 8.0.
@@DawgIVLife But it's not 7.3, and there is no reason to assume it will be there even if APHE from much smaller guns cannot ezcheese it. Unless of course Gaijin decompresses the ground BRs.
If only there were a way to test how the change works in the game, that might be helpful in determining if it will be a food change or not@@DawgIVLife
What APHE should do no matter what is preform realisticly I am sick of the filler defying physics and exploding in a ball maybe they should add shrapnel bouncing off the insides of the tank
do you play British tanks or french tanks? How do they come by with not being able to one shot tanks without hitting weak spots on them? The game is all about positional advantage and playing to your advantages, including armour, especially for British tanks. being able to one shot things from small weak points somewhat negates that. I'm still for aphe changes simply because it puts solid shot tanks on a closer level field with the 3 big nations. I do agree with crew skills being random but I don't think it will matter in most cases. Besides, you still get punished for using your armour and being hit at your weak point, just not as harshly which is good, makes no sense why a whole tiger should be taken out from being hit in the cupola
Yes I do play France and the UK, most of the french tanks have auto loaders that offset "Poor" post pen, The UK tanks like the firefly is such a low BR because they don't have a stab or APHE. That is how they are offset with APHE, I would still like AP rounds to get some sort of niche to them but as of right now gaijin is giving APHE the same post pen as AP, As for using armor it should always be the last resort, your whole goal as a tank is to try not to be spotted and engaged, Doesn't matter if you are a light medium or heavy
@@DawgIVLife yeah and I'm fine with UK tanks going up in BR to make up for the fact that AP is closer to APHE. Yeah I agree armour is last resort but sometimes and only sometimes, a t95 can't do anything but use it's advantage, armour, and it should only be lightly punished to use it's armour, besides there is always apcr/apds or overpressure aphe to deal with them. I feel like the situation of encountering an unkillable heavy tank is rare. Anyway thanks for replying
I disagree with your statement that the aphe gameplay is going to be dumb down bcs now hitting weakspot is not going to guaranty you killing the tank and only damaging it. It just going to be different for example right now if you hit the side of a tank with aphe is almost always a guarantee kill no need for aiming or knowing the crew layout of the tank just point and click. How the game is now with aphe us long us you penetrate the tank it doesn't matter if you aimed at all for maximum damage after penetration like you do with solid shot or heat. Right now in me opinion aphe is ridiculously op compared to everything else so making act more like a combination of solid shot and the old aphe it seems to me like a a a good thing( i can tell for sure yet i will like to try it out first) . However i totally agree with you on the rebalceing issue
This would not fix the APHE nuking issue from like the side if your HE filler is enough to over pressure it still will be a instant kill. What this will do is make weak spots like the sides of KV1 or copulas unreliable to go for.
I'd like to know what "other abilities" AP/APDS should get in orther to be more competitive against APHE. 180° spalling? Ricochet until every crew member is dead? I see many claiming "buff AP/APDS", "make AP/APDS perform historically / as they should", but no one actually explains what they should do to buff them.
@@DawgIVLife Repairs for fully-aced crews should be longer, sometimes they're ridiculously short. But I feel like it doesn't do much for the issue at hand. A higher chance of fuel tank fires is fine... but it doesn't make any sense why APHE would be left out of that ability in my mind. AP and APHE are, at the end of the day, the same thing: a metal slug. It's just that one doesn't have HE filler in it. So I just can't wrap my head around balancing two similar projectiles this way. The following is my very personal opinion. AP and APDS are not bad because they're modelled wrong, especially since the buff AP received when the French ground tree was added (or whenever they got buffed). They're bad because the damage system is full of problems / bugs, for lack of a better way to put it. You pen a vehicle and it randomly doesn't do spalling, spall gets absorbed by thin air or fuel tanks just eat everything without any immediate ripercussions for the crew, stuff like this. The only thing I can say that's actually bad for APDS is shatter, but I don't know exactly how they behave irl in those situations so I'll leave it alone. APHE is extremely badly modeled. I only started playing in 2016, but the APHE damage model wasn't updated in any significant way, was it? It's just a 360° spalling spray. No focus on where to place your shot, nothing. Just pen a vehicle and a mini-nuke goes off inside the it. APHE should behave like AP, with additional damage from the explosive filler that takes in consideration the way APHEs are / were made. Exactly what they're proposing now. That's how they should behave. There are vehicles that get absolutely dunked on due to cupola shots, it almost reminds me of WoT's cupola sniping (which I hated back when I was playing it). It's APHE that's overperforming due to an oversimplified damage model, not AP or APDS (once again, shatter is sus). We'll see what happens. Last time I checked, yes was winning. I just hope it doesn't turn into the usual Gaijin mess.
@@reinyfrost3753 KV-1E is the same as the KV-1B the KV-1E is technically better since it has a smoke shell but the KV-1B doesn't face German guns but tbh I prefer the KV-1E just because the German guns might be strong but the armor is weak.
@@DawgIVLifethats literaly how the game should be. Medium tanks shouldnt be able to frontaly kill everything they face. A tank destroyers roll is.... . To destroy tanks.
In low tier, a single well armoured tank can win a match if its down tiered (kv1, t34, m4,..). Mean while in higher tier HEAT, big HE and APDS is neglecting armour when some tank's armour is whats got it its current br (t95, Is-4m, Maus,..). Armour will be such a problem to balance until we: + Give minor nations more lineups, more tanks/ planes per lineup. Russia, Us and Germany is over powering them in regards to the sheer number of tanks. + INSANE lineups from big nations must be broken up, (UK 3.0 and below, US 3.7 and below, Russia 4.0, US 6.7,...). Not only because theyre powerful alone, but they have a chance of teaming up with another insane lineup. Ex: Youre playing Italy 3.0 fighting the US and Russia. What chance does your 47mm gun has against 100mm of amour on Kv1s and stablized 75mm on Shermans? Same for Germany 6.0 when your whole lineup is good but go up 0.7 Br and youre already penning nobody, while everybody goes through you like butter. + Resize maps according to Br, im not just talking about the border im talking about how far things are from each other as tanks get bigger and faster. But ofcourse Gaijin has already thought of this, theyre arent stupid, they developed the damn thing. Its just they dont want us to have such a good time playing the game we for get to pay.
"Youre playing Italy 3.0 fighting the US and Russia. What chance does you..." Non Sequitur. Because the other half are going to be downtiers. There are no 47mms at 3.0 Italy and the "Stughettis" can handle Shermans and KVs just fine. What you are really asking for is BR decompression. Which is a well seasoned deceased horse.
@@obsidianjane4413 Up tier you most likely win, down tier youre most likely dead everybody thats played the game know, but theres a difference between simply having the upper hand vs raping the enemy team. If you get downtiered in 4.0 russian, and you have the US on your side just hold w and youll have 5 kills, thats whats shown when you look at the win rate. What i propose is that we buff other tech tree (not tanks) and break them OP BRs up
Shooting tiny weak spots in order to get a kill is the entire problem with this pile of trash. I love how everyone is arguing about “realism” in a game where you steer, not fly planes with a fucking mouse and think you’re an ace pilot. As for tanks, in combat I can assure you no tank gunner is aiming for the driver view port or cupola. Realism is calming your nerves so you can even get a shot on target before they see or engage you. Realism😂😂😂
I agree that Gaijin shouldn't be asking about whether to test this, there should be an event with the changes incorporated with rewards and full RP/SL gain to encourage as many people to participate as possible, followed by potentially even a second event after feedback and tweaks to the system get made. Only then would people be informed enough to make a proper decision in a vote. Too many assumptions are going on, like that Gaijn will implement the changes if they test them no matter what, or some weak spots will be useless for killing heavies. We don't know for sure. Maybe a cupola shot now kills 2-3 crew and cripples a tank rather than one shots it, maybe it only kills a commander. Some weak spots may require two shots rather than one to kill, some may not be viable anymore, but we don't know. If a heavy becomes too hard to kill because it lacks weak spots, it'll probably get moved up, which may hurt it more in the long run. I don't know if I would like the spalling changes or not, but I am curious as to how it would work.
Not my fault gaijin did not test it before they wanted people to vote for major change within the game. They ran this polling completely wrong, Should of done a test then ask people to vote a clear yes or no.
@@DawgIVLife this is voting for the test, not voting for the actual changes. They are going to do a test if this voting goes through. If you want them to test it first like you say you do, you need to vote yes.
You clearly didn't read where the poll is about... Gajin needs to test it and want to know if they should set up an event to test it. By voting against this you take away the change to test it. It was never about direct implementation. Influencers like yourself need to read because at this point you are misleading people
I did read it I actually read it multiple times and also read feedback that others had on this issue, Gaijin should have never put a test up to a vote should have done this test on a dev server, asked a clear yes or no on a polling. It is completely fine to disagree with the devblog and vote no.
You forgot the nasties problem this will cause...tanks that are already volumetric hell will be damn near unstoppable. A perfect example are the Panthers, even the prototype can eat rounds in its mantlet that have twice the pen required because Gaijin's volumetric is busted AF so for many tanks the only way to stop a Panther is to go for the cupola...and this will take that away. 🤦♂
with more consideration and overview of the devlog, Gaijin definitely didn't really explained this idea thorough enough, ASU-57 was a terrible example of a tank to use against a tiger 1 considering the round only has 20.02g of tnt compared to the tiger's 108.8 g of tnt for dmg modeling with the new shell. makes it look extremely inferior when people are jumping to conclusion with no actual data to prove their point with other tanks. yes the 108.8g pzgr 39 looks to be weak against cupola shots but you also have to consider the additional rounds that tanks carry, such as the pzgr. with 215.04g of tnt which is hardly use as the standard round with the current nuke model is sufficient to one shot. with this new proposal, the potential of the Pzgr39 will not be all kill all round for the tank. instead provide a little more complexity to the tactics used as higher filler and less penetration rounds will come into play toward weak spots. I agree to this proposal to the hopes of testing my theory of how tnt will play a major role on how the game will play and hopefully end the nuke round for good for positive change
I always use the higher TNT Pzgr. round in the Tiger, it overpressures things where the Pzgr.39 doesn't. But you're right, the devblog didn't give a good enough idea of what the effect of the changes could be.
If shell balance affects a tanks BR, there are bigger issues at play with the balance. If the shells were consistent, and solid shot could still kill a tank, sabot can actually damage what it pens, and HEAT makes its mind up about penning half the time..... APHE wouldnt change every part of how the game plays.
man its so funny that u think gaijin is merely not knowing it can be bad. the ww2 brs are too enjoyable rn which makes people stay and thus buy less top tier premiums. that's why they will find a way to shuffle and change the meta
The new counter meta might become light tanks. As a light tank main, light tanks with decent/punchy guns and high speed are great for destroying heavies from the side if you can't get the breach or anything. So for me, if I see a tiger, i'm going to flank it or go for the breach.
Does anyone have any confidence that Gaijin won't mess this up?! Volumetric armour still doesn't work properly. Apds is still broken. Is there a major change they haven't stuffed up?
Volumetric exists, and many of you were cheering for it. And after 3 years it's the greatest source of frustration; and ironically how it's done isn't even realistic either. But it buffed every Russian and German tank that didn't need it.
Yeah, it's far too late to be changing this BR is already a mess and doing this which will cause even more chaos for trying to balance everything to a respective BR, it's going to be daunting It's just going to make a mess of things and I don't see The Snail fixing it if it comes to it
@@redtsar its a completely self contained message lmao, maybe rub some ridges into that smoothbrain. "Yeah, it's far too late to be changing this" xd what a brainrot take, its never too late for change.
@@SPACECOWBOY_Hej gaijin isn't known for fixing whatever comes after they introduce a new mechanic, look how fucked the overpressure and volumetric is despite being so long in the game. Or hell, look at what happened when they added the new missiles to top tier jets. Many people would probably not be opposed to the rework if not for the perspective of many tanks being skullfucked by it and gaijin not caring/bothering to fix it asap.
thank jou gajin listen to this man plz dont change APHE the game is all reday hard and stresful as is and if gajin chainge APHE thay lost loving player and I wasted my mony on bp and prems
I can really agree with this, gameplay > realism, this was the only thing i didn't want happen, i'm really okay with how aphe is, makes the game more difficult and fun, if you make a mistake, you can die by making it, same with the enemies too, like Odd said in his video about this, i voted no to this mechanic, even if they are trying to test it, i like how the aphe is currently, and probably alot of other players too, if this actually goes through, then i can see alot of people complain, like other additions [ex: volumetric, some spots on that addition became incredibly infuriating to pen after that addition]. if it was me doing these changes, i'd honestly change the AP, and maybe the consistancy of APDS for those who play Britain and France, it'd greatly benefit those two at most, but still, i agree with your opinion. [also, Dawg, there is a dicord ping at 12:33 , just pointing that out]
It literally does the opposite of making the game challenging lmao, placing APHE in ridiculous spots leads to even the thinnest skinned vehicles being obliterated. Players like you are just already used to APHE nuking because Gaijan refused to CORRECT IT, yes it is a CORRECTION it is not a NERF it was something LONG overdue.
@@theliteralworst9416 well honestly, I’d like to have fun in this game than rather suffer every time I play, wouldn’t you agree with that? Or are you someone who suffers from these cupola shots mentioned in this video?
You voted no because you are a reasonable human being and have functional eyes, thats really all it takes to understand that this change is awful. They should instead fix shells that are borderline unusable.
hey Dawg audio is better but i would somehow say still not as clear as it was beffore but better i dont play long enough to have solid opinion about aphe change so i take your word for it lol :D also need recommendation i am trying to grind end of the line for US air during this event since nation bonuses are coming and i dont know what rank 7 should i pick to unlock rank 8 i can go only for F5E Phantoms or F105/F111 since i need only 5 to unlock rank 8 i didnt research other 2 lines and also F16 or F15 as first top of the line vehicle would you pick?
F105 and F111 are both free kills for the enemy both are not in a great place especially the F105 you don't have flares and go against vehicles which will focus you because you don't have flares and its a easy kill.
@@DawgIVLife ok so those are no go but what would you pick F5E or one of the phantoms? and i am new to top tier jets with missiles if its not obvious :D so i am going to have rough times with either of them
@@DawgIVLife damn feels like most US jets have it rough most aircraft have no flares or chaff early sidewinders are trash and enemy have missiles that can lock from front i should have grinded Japan i still might switch having so few high tier planes and i will have bonus on US tech tree :D maybe when those bonuses comes out its idea for video what lines or tech trees are most EZ to unlock end of the line vehicle to get bonuses
As British main, while I think these changes would benefit the British tree , I also do not agree with the Implementation You are trying to solve one "issue" but in the process make the game feel worse. I think the biggest issue is how they Calculate BR Lets be honest compared to most factions I think Brit tree has the most dud vehicles and its certainly one of the worst trees with very few highlights So that leads to less people playing Brit vehicles and the ones who do know how to use them despite there many many many flaws so the average skill level is higher so vehicles that do not belong in a higher BR, Get there BR increased, Making them feel even more terrible I for one do think the Brit tree needs to be looked at again in a more general sense, firstly do not change the tanks, but have a serious look at there BRs and adjust instead of whatever automated system they clearly use
The UK doesn't have "shiny" vehicles even if the abrams or the Leopard 2 or even the A-10 was dog water people would still play those trees what does the UK have that people would want to play?
@@DawgIVLife But those vehicles are not , They have added the more Modern brit Vehicles and they feel bad for there tiers ,There only played by die hard fans who have worked out how to use them well, Also if they Implemented vehicles correctly maybe they would not be bad for example , The challenger 2 frontal armour is just bad compared to its real life counterpart you cant angle anything from its front, yet in real life the Challengers 2 front armour is much better than its portrayal I also NEVER mentioned anything about adding new "Shiny" vehicles all I said was that maybe looking back at what vehicles are in the tree and having a look at there BRs But if you want to talk about new Vehicles people would want to play, You know what people found fun? The Fox, add some of the British light vehicles Ferret, The Scorpion and Scimitar, They wont be the best but you know what the fox proved, being fast is generally more fun as instead of spending a lot of the battle getting into position you can spend more time flanking and taking shots. So what is your solution to fixing some of the weaker trees then?
No it doesn't, it makes APHE a bit less lethal when penetrating things like cupolas, you can still pen them but maybe not one shot the tank. And the example the devs used was a 57mm APHE with very little explosive filler, a bigger shell may be much less affected by the changes but we don't know that yet.
It won't go to 4.7. Sure it won't be able to crew kill Tiger's through their cupola but killing the Jumbo through the mg port will now be even harder than volumetric has already made it.
@@reinyfrost3753 Oh damn I actually forgot it was all the way at 5.7 now. It'll probably be down to 5.3, but if anything the Tiger H1 might move up to 6.0 since the biggest downside it has over the Tiger E would be gone.
@@DawgIVLife Yes if an object is hit many times it wears out and weakens but mine was sarcasm I wouldn't want it in the game. Already with the top Russian tiers if they destroy your explosive armor the tank weakens
Instead of messing with the shells, they should do something with the uptiers... having your ww2 tank getting taken out by a guided missile, helicopter or cold war tank, doesn't sound very realistic to me
Date of production is not factored into BR in any way, shape, or form. Theyve already said this multiple times. And have said its never changing. Only performance is conaidered. The swedish 1.0 tanks were made in the late 40s/early 50s.
i agree they should make early apds ap and hesh and those rounds better also why is it that a lot of british players are kind of stupid? like not all of them or most but how is it that a lot of them are a little bit stupid and dont get stuff? im not talking like about the changes but in general also not trying to hate on british mains
Wtf are you talking about british players being stupid? Theyre mostly played by people that have already played one of the big 3 nations so already know most of the things they need to know about th. game and easily play better than big 3 players.
I'll be voting no as well. The concept is silly. In real life if a tank had a shell that penetrated the hull but didn't kill all the crew members, the surviving crew members would abandon the tank and run into the trees as fast as they could. They wouldn't sit there and repair the tank in 30 seconds like what happens in War Thunder. So they are attempting to make something more realistic that isn't realistic in the first place. I also agree with Dawg ... the balancing is reasonably good at the moment and this change will screw it all up. Knowing Gaijin it will take them decades to redo the balancing. Leave well enough alone.
This is such a dumb argument because it’s trying to use an extreme to hide what is an extremely basic argument. Every other shell is performing as realistic as possible or as close as they can to performance, even to the point the distinction of tungsten carbide and composite apds cores, EXCEPT aphe, they just never bothered to CORRECT aphe. That is why there isn’t “reasons” to use other shells because of the over performance of one shell category that receives NO downsides.
Hopefully the audio is fixed pro tip never update software if it already works.
Bro you play the Kv1E with bushes
Trying to get it to go up in BR
doesnt want unkillable heavies, plasteres KV1E of all tanks in bushy crutches.
Cope @@DawgIVLife
@@alastairpearce8278 nah
@@petn8211 You know what would make a heavy killable Gaijin finally putting the KV1E/B to 4.3
>makes simulator game
>playes gloat about how real it is compared to other games (EX: world of tanks)
>refuses to make the game more realistic
ok?
Makes a vehicular combat game adds multiple modes cause they know not everyone wants a mil sim = one of the most popular games in the world.
Bushes on tank detected
Opinion invalidated
I have premiums and stuff but I’ve never bought a bush out of spite haha. Crew skills are always a better purchase.
Fr, why cry about aphe making tanks too strong and then proceed to use bushes
love how peoplke vote "no" for just testing this new mechanism. Why not give it a try in dev server and see how it works ? All problem you said would be much more convincing if they actually turn up in testing .
Gaijin should have just tested it and asked these questions after a test.
@@DawgIVLifeOk how about they test it and introduce it as the next big update would you prefer that?
Pretty sure most of the voters will complain about "why they didn't let us test it first?". And so the Neverending bonding attempts between the Snail and its playerbase continues.
Wait.... thats your reason why you dont want them to test this? .....all because they asked if the playerbase wanted it tested? Bruh... why does that matter?????? Please explain your logic. @@DawgIVLife
@@SHEEPS_123 If you watched the video I clearly said I think having weakspots in War thunder is a positive I don't like unkillable tanks which this change would lead to since they clearly pointed out in the dev blog that small weakspots like cupolas would be effected by this change.
@@Haaton-of-the-Basement they have dev servers even one coming up very soon for a new major update they could have just made a mode with the new system with preset lineups so they don't have to mode each APHE in the game just the ones which they think would create issues in the new APHE change. Then ask a clear Yes or No poll instead of asking a question if they should even test the idea.
Then they should buff solid shots? cause it isnt fun to play without APHE
Well with gaijin giving APHE the benefits of solid shot I don't think they are going to make it any better, that change also needs to not come.
They need to fix the fv4005 HESH
They def need to buff solid shot to be on the level of APHE. I try playing my British/French tanks and they're so miserable to play. Unless you hit the ammunition it's at miniumum 2-4 shots to kill tanks that tanks with APHE can kill in one hit. Also, a lot of the French/British shells have terrible angle performance so you can't even pen T-34/M4A2 frontal slopes.
Definitely fix HESH first. Solid shot is already working as intended.
The cupolas of the T95 used to not fuze APHE and it never moved from 7.0 for years. The argument that now it can be killed by literally anything and is complete garbage therefore it’s “only” 7.0 is hogwash.
The current APHE system is crap because of this weakspot system. Tanks like T32E1, T95, Tortoise, etc are all trash BECAUSE of how APHE works. I will happily cuck lazy APHE users to bring back an armor meta. Besides, everyone who doesn’t get APHE doesn’t get a death sphere. This only benefits specific nations at specific BRs currently.
The T95 use to get shot by leopard 1s at 7.3 for a good bit. That was fun
@@DawgIVLife For like one micropatch out of the 9 years it's been around? It has spent the vast majority of its life at 7.0.
What do we have right now? T95 at 7.0, Leopard 1 at 8.0.
If you know how warthunder matchmaker works a full up tier for the T95 means it can only see a total of 4 8.0s if you move the vehicle to just 7.3 now it can see a full team of 8.0.
@@DawgIVLife But it's not 7.3, and there is no reason to assume it will be there even if APHE from much smaller guns cannot ezcheese it. Unless of course Gaijin decompresses the ground BRs.
If only there were a way to test how the change works in the game, that might be helpful in determining if it will be a food change or not@@DawgIVLife
What APHE should do no matter what is preform realisticly I am sick of the filler defying physics and exploding in a ball maybe they should add shrapnel bouncing off the insides of the tank
do you play British tanks or french tanks? How do they come by with not being able to one shot tanks without hitting weak spots on them? The game is all about positional advantage and playing to your advantages, including armour, especially for British tanks. being able to one shot things from small weak points somewhat negates that. I'm still for aphe changes simply because it puts solid shot tanks on a closer level field with the 3 big nations. I do agree with crew skills being random but I don't think it will matter in most cases.
Besides, you still get punished for using your armour and being hit at your weak point, just not as harshly which is good, makes no sense why a whole tiger should be taken out from being hit in the cupola
They feel fine to me. They have higher shell velocity so they are easier to aim and also greater pen.
Yes I do play France and the UK, most of the french tanks have auto loaders that offset "Poor" post pen, The UK tanks like the firefly is such a low BR because they don't have a stab or APHE. That is how they are offset with APHE, I would still like AP rounds to get some sort of niche to them but as of right now gaijin is giving APHE the same post pen as AP, As for using armor it should always be the last resort, your whole goal as a tank is to try not to be spotted and engaged, Doesn't matter if you are a light medium or heavy
@@DawgIVLife yeah and I'm fine with UK tanks going up in BR to make up for the fact that AP is closer to APHE. Yeah I agree armour is last resort but sometimes and only sometimes, a t95 can't do anything but use it's advantage, armour, and it should only be lightly punished to use it's armour, besides there is always apcr/apds or overpressure aphe to deal with them. I feel like the situation of encountering an unkillable heavy tank is rare. Anyway thanks for replying
@@ChickenSplash Just remember if something is unkillable to gets throw up into HEAT FS area and bombs exist.
i stopped playing british tanks after the APDS change lmao
I disagree with your statement that the aphe gameplay is going to be dumb down bcs now hitting weakspot is not going to guaranty you killing the tank and only damaging it. It just going to be different for example right now if you hit the side of a tank with aphe is almost always a guarantee kill no need for aiming or knowing the crew layout of the tank just point and click. How the game is now with aphe us long us you penetrate the tank it doesn't matter if you aimed at all for maximum damage after penetration like you do with solid shot or heat. Right now in me opinion aphe is ridiculously op compared to everything else so making act more like a combination of solid shot and the old aphe it seems to me like a a a good thing( i can tell for sure yet i will like to try it out first) . However i totally agree with you on the rebalceing issue
This would not fix the APHE nuking issue from like the side if your HE filler is enough to over pressure it still will be a instant kill. What this will do is make weak spots like the sides of KV1 or copulas unreliable to go for.
@@DawgIVLifeonly like 5% of all tanks with APHE have an APHE shell with enough filler to trigger overpressure.
Aphe have about 180gramms of explosive, its like 3 F1 grenades. What do you think will happen a tank if 3 damn grenades would blown up inside it?
@@SNtsoi most APHE shells have noticbly less than 180g.
@@robertharris6092 and those 5% of tanks will just shoot up in BR. Being able to instantly kill targets will be the meta.
Why vote no to a test bruh
Because it changes for me a reason why I play warthunder which is weakspots and its a auto no
I'd like to know what "other abilities" AP/APDS should get in orther to be more competitive against APHE. 180° spalling? Ricochet until every crew member is dead?
I see many claiming "buff AP/APDS", "make AP/APDS perform historically / as they should", but no one actually explains what they should do to buff them.
They could always try some game play type balances like AP rounds are more likely to set off fuel tanks and also make repairs for vehicles longer.
@@DawgIVLife
Repairs for fully-aced crews should be longer, sometimes they're ridiculously short. But I feel like it doesn't do much for the issue at hand.
A higher chance of fuel tank fires is fine... but it doesn't make any sense why APHE would be left out of that ability in my mind. AP and APHE are, at the end of the day, the same thing: a metal slug. It's just that one doesn't have HE filler in it. So I just can't wrap my head around balancing two similar projectiles this way.
The following is my very personal opinion.
AP and APDS are not bad because they're modelled wrong, especially since the buff AP received when the French ground tree was added (or whenever they got buffed). They're bad because the damage system is full of problems / bugs, for lack of a better way to put it. You pen a vehicle and it randomly doesn't do spalling, spall gets absorbed by thin air or fuel tanks just eat everything without any immediate ripercussions for the crew, stuff like this. The only thing I can say that's actually bad for APDS is shatter, but I don't know exactly how they behave irl in those situations so I'll leave it alone.
APHE is extremely badly modeled. I only started playing in 2016, but the APHE damage model wasn't updated in any significant way, was it? It's just a 360° spalling spray. No focus on where to place your shot, nothing. Just pen a vehicle and a mini-nuke goes off inside the it. APHE should behave like AP, with additional damage from the explosive filler that takes in consideration the way APHEs are / were made. Exactly what they're proposing now. That's how they should behave. There are vehicles that get absolutely dunked on due to cupola shots, it almost reminds me of WoT's cupola sniping (which I hated back when I was playing it).
It's APHE that's overperforming due to an oversimplified damage model, not AP or APDS (once again, shatter is sus).
We'll see what happens. Last time I checked, yes was winning. I just hope it doesn't turn into the usual Gaijin mess.
What the hell @@DawgIVLife
@@DawgIVLiferepairs are already too long. Making them longer would rukn the game.
Also the shrspanell change isnt a nerf its a change
The APHE changes would benefit Russian tanks more because they always use larger caliber shells.
The russian rounds even with the APHE changes would still have a nuke effect
56mm is a large caliber shell?
Well more people will use higher aphe shells it's not gonna buff Russian tanks
@@thatboysus1484 ah yes. The shermans will just develop a whole new shell to use in their tanks with more filler.
I won't feel a shred of sadness for any KV player lol
Same the KV1E and B should be 4.3 by now
@@DawgIVLife Not sure about the KV-1E, but probably the KV-1B. M4A2 is also extremely strong at 4.0.
@@reinyfrost3753 KV-1E is the same as the KV-1B the KV-1E is technically better since it has a smoke shell but the KV-1B doesn't face German guns but tbh I prefer the KV-1E just because the German guns might be strong but the armor is weak.
I'm voting for realism
100% agree about the crew skill issue as well
Everyone keeps crying about the aphe not instakilling the tank is sad, it's literally just a more expensive version of solid shot
The perils of "simucade" you'll never make everyone happy. Luckily, The Snail enjoys making everyone miserable.
Womp womp jumbo main
Remember when it took the dickermax to kill jumbos I still remember that time not fun.
@@DawgIVLifethats literaly how the game should be. Medium tanks shouldnt be able to frontaly kill everything they face. A tank destroyers roll is....
. To destroy tanks.
In low tier, a single well armoured tank can win a match if its down tiered (kv1, t34, m4,..). Mean while in higher tier HEAT, big HE and APDS is neglecting armour when some tank's armour is whats got it its current br (t95, Is-4m, Maus,..).
Armour will be such a problem to balance until we:
+ Give minor nations more lineups, more tanks/ planes per lineup. Russia, Us and Germany is over powering them in regards to the sheer number of tanks.
+ INSANE lineups from big nations must be broken up, (UK 3.0 and below, US 3.7 and below, Russia 4.0, US 6.7,...). Not only because theyre powerful alone, but they have a chance of teaming up with another insane lineup. Ex: Youre playing Italy 3.0 fighting the US and Russia. What chance does your 47mm gun has against 100mm of amour on Kv1s and stablized 75mm on Shermans? Same for Germany 6.0 when your whole lineup is good but go up 0.7 Br and youre already penning nobody, while everybody goes through you like butter.
+ Resize maps according to Br, im not just talking about the border im talking about how far things are from each other as tanks get bigger and faster.
But ofcourse Gaijin has already thought of this, theyre arent stupid, they developed the damn thing. Its just they dont want us to have such a good time playing the game we for get to pay.
"Youre playing Italy 3.0 fighting the US and Russia. What chance does you..."
Non Sequitur.
Because the other half are going to be downtiers. There are no 47mms at 3.0 Italy and the "Stughettis" can handle Shermans and KVs just fine.
What you are really asking for is BR decompression. Which is a well seasoned deceased horse.
@@obsidianjane4413 Up tier you most likely win, down tier youre most likely dead everybody thats played the game know, but theres a difference between simply having the upper hand vs raping the enemy team. If you get downtiered in 4.0 russian, and you have the US on your side just hold w and youll have 5 kills, thats whats shown when you look at the win rate. What i propose is that we buff other tech tree (not tanks) and break them OP BRs up
@@thuankhiet_ That won't do what you think it will do.
Uk is not one of the big nations.
Shooting tiny weak spots in order to get a kill is the entire problem with this pile of trash. I love how everyone is arguing about “realism” in a game where you steer, not fly planes with a fucking mouse and think you’re an ace pilot. As for tanks, in combat I can assure you no tank gunner is aiming for the driver view port or cupola. Realism is calming your nerves so you can even get a shot on target before they see or engage you. Realism😂😂😂
I agree that Gaijin shouldn't be asking about whether to test this, there should be an event with the changes incorporated with rewards and full RP/SL gain to encourage as many people to participate as possible, followed by potentially even a second event after feedback and tweaks to the system get made. Only then would people be informed enough to make a proper decision in a vote. Too many assumptions are going on, like that Gaijn will implement the changes if they test them no matter what, or some weak spots will be useless for killing heavies. We don't know for sure. Maybe a cupola shot now kills 2-3 crew and cripples a tank rather than one shots it, maybe it only kills a commander. Some weak spots may require two shots rather than one to kill, some may not be viable anymore, but we don't know. If a heavy becomes too hard to kill because it lacks weak spots, it'll probably get moved up, which may hurt it more in the long run. I don't know if I would like the spalling changes or not, but I am curious as to how it would work.
They should just make it where if you hit the Coppola's, it would Ricochet spell downwards, not like 180-degree super nuclear bomb
Me when the “nerf” is just adding fucking physics to a round that somehow ignored the basic laws of inertia
How can someone vote no for a test
Not my fault gaijin did not test it before they wanted people to vote for major change within the game. They ran this polling completely wrong, Should of done a test then ask people to vote a clear yes or no.
Clicking on "no" simple as that
@@DawgIVLife this is voting for the test, not voting for the actual changes. They are going to do a test if this voting goes through. If you want them to test it first like you say you do, you need to vote yes.
@@DawgIVLifebruh.... this is a vote for a test
For gaijins voiting for "test" means adding into the game
You clearly didn't read where the poll is about... Gajin needs to test it and want to know if they should set up an event to test it. By voting against this you take away the change to test it. It was never about direct implementation. Influencers like yourself need to read because at this point you are misleading people
I did read it I actually read it multiple times and also read feedback that others had on this issue, Gaijin should have never put a test up to a vote should have done this test on a dev server, asked a clear yes or no on a polling. It is completely fine to disagree with the devblog and vote no.
Did you watch the video? He acknowledges and knows its a test in the first 30 secs.
if you listen you would've heard that he acknowledged that it's a test
You clearly can't listen lmao
You need to watch before commenting, he acknowledges that at 0:29.
You forgot the nasties problem this will cause...tanks that are already volumetric hell will be damn near unstoppable. A perfect example are the Panthers, even the prototype can eat rounds in its mantlet that have twice the pen required because Gaijin's volumetric is busted AF so for many tanks the only way to stop a Panther is to go for the cupola...and this will take that away. 🤦♂
There is no doubt it would be implemented regardless if this is a test or not
with more consideration and overview of the devlog, Gaijin definitely didn't really explained this idea thorough enough, ASU-57 was a terrible example of a tank to use against a tiger 1 considering the round only has 20.02g of tnt compared to the tiger's 108.8 g of tnt for dmg modeling with the new shell. makes it look extremely inferior when people are jumping to conclusion with no actual data to prove their point with other tanks. yes the 108.8g pzgr 39 looks to be weak against cupola shots but you also have to consider the additional rounds that tanks carry, such as the pzgr. with 215.04g of tnt which is hardly use as the standard round with the current nuke model is sufficient to one shot. with this new proposal, the potential of the Pzgr39 will not be all kill all round for the tank. instead provide a little more complexity to the tactics used as higher filler and less penetration rounds will come into play toward weak spots. I agree to this proposal to the hopes of testing my theory of how tnt will play a major role on how the game will play and hopefully end the nuke round for good for positive change
I always use the higher TNT Pzgr. round in the Tiger, it overpressures things where the Pzgr.39 doesn't. But you're right, the devblog didn't give a good enough idea of what the effect of the changes could be.
I think they should have just nerfed the explosion post pen and kept the pen the same.
If shell balance affects a tanks BR, there are bigger issues at play with the balance.
If the shells were consistent, and solid shot could still kill a tank, sabot can actually damage what it pens, and HEAT makes its mind up about penning half the time..... APHE wouldnt change every part of how the game plays.
Wish there was a pole to improve apds when going through volumetric.
man its so funny that u think gaijin is merely not knowing it can be bad. the ww2 brs are too enjoyable rn which makes people stay and thus buy less top tier premiums. that's why they will find a way to shuffle and change the meta
The new counter meta might become light tanks. As a light tank main, light tanks with decent/punchy guns and high speed are great for destroying heavies from the side if you can't get the breach or anything. So for me, if I see a tiger, i'm going to flank it or go for the breach.
Light tanks have always been the meta. Except when they started just completly gutting maps of any way to flank.
@robertharris6092 Yeah it's gonna suck as a French main
Does anyone have any confidence that Gaijin won't mess this up?! Volumetric armour still doesn't work properly. Apds is still broken. Is there a major change they haven't stuffed up?
Well said Dawg, glad there's CCs who are sane when talking about this. Bottom line, gameplay should always take priority over realism.
Volumetric exists, and many of you were cheering for it.
And after 3 years it's the greatest source of frustration; and ironically how it's done isn't even realistic either. But it buffed every Russian and German tank that didn't need it.
@strategicperson95 yeah I think they should fix volumetric and their other bugs before adding other buggy mechanics
Indeed, and realism aside, being able to one-shot any tank by shooting a cupola weak spot that can't be easily hidden is crappy gameplay mechanics.
This is just yet another excuse from someone who doesn't want their overpowered shell to be fair.
Yeah, it's far too late to be changing this
BR is already a mess and doing this which will cause even more chaos for trying to balance everything to a respective BR, it's going to be daunting
It's just going to make a mess of things and I don't see The Snail fixing it if it comes to it
Please fix the plebbit loser spacing
@@SPACECOWBOY_Hej wut?
@@redtsar its a completely self contained message lmao, maybe rub some ridges into that smoothbrain. "Yeah, it's far too late to be changing this" xd what a brainrot take, its never too late for change.
@@SPACECOWBOY_Hej wut?
@@SPACECOWBOY_Hej gaijin isn't known for fixing whatever comes after they introduce a new mechanic, look how fucked the overpressure and volumetric is despite being so long in the game. Or hell, look at what happened when they added the new missiles to top tier jets. Many people would probably not be opposed to the rework if not for the perspective of many tanks being skullfucked by it and gaijin not caring/bothering to fix it asap.
its a game, not a real tank. make it fun and leave as is and done easy
thank jou gajin listen to this man plz dont change APHE the game is all reday hard and stresful as is and if gajin chainge APHE thay lost loving player and I wasted my mony on bp and prems
I can really agree with this, gameplay > realism, this was the only thing i didn't want happen, i'm really okay with how aphe is, makes the game more difficult and fun, if you make a mistake, you can die by making it, same with the enemies too, like Odd said in his video about this, i voted no to this mechanic, even if they are trying to test it, i like how the aphe is currently, and probably alot of other players too, if this actually goes through, then i can see alot of people complain, like other additions [ex: volumetric, some spots on that addition became incredibly infuriating to pen after that addition]. if it was me doing these changes, i'd honestly change the AP, and maybe the consistancy of APDS for those who play Britain and France, it'd greatly benefit those two at most, but still, i agree with your opinion. [also, Dawg, there is a dicord ping at 12:33 , just pointing that out]
And if this actually goes through, there is probably 8 years of progress of balance thrown out, and probably even more.
@@BW-4012well considering that this is just a test, if it does go through that means that most people enjoyed the test and voted yes to it.
It literally does the opposite of making the game challenging lmao, placing APHE in ridiculous spots leads to even the thinnest skinned vehicles being obliterated. Players like you are just already used to APHE nuking because Gaijan refused to CORRECT IT, yes it is a CORRECTION it is not a NERF it was something LONG overdue.
@@theliteralworst9416 well honestly, I’d like to have fun in this game than rather suffer every time I play, wouldn’t you agree with that? Or are you someone who suffers from these cupola shots mentioned in this video?
Ahh yes i so you feel like aphe changes shouldnt even be tested theyd do an extra vote after
You voted no because you are a reasonable human being and have functional eyes, thats really all it takes to understand that this change is awful.
They should instead fix shells that are borderline unusable.
Play Britain and you'll agree with it.
I do, I even have some of the crap vehicles like the Conway Spaded, sad what they did to the comet though can't UFP panthers anymore with the APDS.
@@DawgIVLifeas a og Conway enjoyer I find offense to that “crap” statement good sir lol
@@lafosh7234 My only joy spading that thing was I was able to use the OP mk24 spitfire in ground
Its funny that your saying stronger then ever when people are bitching that its gonna be too weak
hey Dawg audio is better but i would somehow say still not as clear as it was beffore but better i dont play long enough to have solid opinion about aphe change so i take your word for it lol :D also need recommendation i am trying to grind end of the line for US air during this event since nation bonuses are coming and i dont know what rank 7 should i pick to unlock rank 8 i can go only for F5E Phantoms or F105/F111 since i need only 5 to unlock rank 8 i didnt research other 2 lines and also F16 or F15 as first top of the line vehicle would you pick?
F105 and F111 are both free kills for the enemy both are not in a great place especially the F105 you don't have flares and go against vehicles which will focus you because you don't have flares and its a easy kill.
@@DawgIVLife ok so those are no go but what would you pick F5E or one of the phantoms? and i am new to top tier jets with missiles if its not obvious :D so i am going to have rough times with either of them
F5E is still alright it’s better than the phantoms right now F4C also does not have flares and gets focused by missiles.
@@DawgIVLife damn feels like most US jets have it rough most aircraft have no flares or chaff early sidewinders are trash and enemy have missiles that can lock from front i should have grinded Japan i still might switch having so few high tier planes and i will have bonus on US tech tree :D maybe when those bonuses comes out its idea for video what lines or tech trees are most EZ to unlock end of the line vehicle to get bonuses
As British main, while I think these changes would benefit the British tree , I also do not agree with the Implementation
You are trying to solve one "issue" but in the process make the game feel worse.
I think the biggest issue is how they Calculate BR
Lets be honest compared to most factions I think Brit tree has the most dud vehicles and its certainly one of the worst trees with very few highlights
So that leads to less people playing Brit vehicles and the ones who do know how to use them despite there many many many flaws so the average skill level is higher so vehicles that do not belong in a higher BR, Get there BR increased, Making them feel even more terrible
I for one do think the Brit tree needs to be looked at again in a more general sense, firstly do not change the tanks, but have a serious look at there BRs and adjust instead of whatever automated system they clearly use
The UK doesn't have "shiny" vehicles even if the abrams or the Leopard 2 or even the A-10 was dog water people would still play those trees what does the UK have that people would want to play?
Challengers , Centurions , Cheiftains , Cromwells and the firefly are very popular
@@DawgIVLife But those vehicles are not , They have added the more Modern brit Vehicles and they feel bad for there tiers ,There only played by die hard fans who have worked out how to use them well, Also if they Implemented vehicles correctly maybe they would not be bad for example , The challenger 2 frontal armour is just bad compared to its real life counterpart you cant angle anything from its front, yet in real life the Challengers 2 front armour is much better than its portrayal
I also NEVER mentioned anything about adding new "Shiny" vehicles all I said was that maybe looking back at what vehicles are in the tree and having a look at there BRs
But if you want to talk about new Vehicles people would want to play, You know what people found fun? The Fox, add some of the British light vehicles
Ferret, The Scorpion and Scimitar, They wont be the best but you know what the fox proved, being fast is generally more fun as instead of spending a lot of the battle getting into position you can spend more time flanking and taking shots.
So what is your solution to fixing some of the weaker trees then?
copeeee german main
Joke was almost so Funny I forgot a laugh
I don't like it because it removes weak spots for certain tanks
No it doesn't, it makes APHE a bit less lethal when penetrating things like cupolas, you can still pen them but maybe not one shot the tank. And the example the devs used was a 57mm APHE with very little explosive filler, a bigger shell may be much less affected by the changes but we don't know that yet.
The example was with the 88mm Pzgr39 the 57mm was to show APHE Pass though damage.
Wrong
Jumbo on 4.7 again would be lovely
yeah, current 75 and 76 jumbo are over tiered, can't believe the 76 jumbo was 6.7
75 jumbo will get uptiered again just saying
It won't go to 4.7. Sure it won't be able to crew kill Tiger's through their cupola but killing the Jumbo through the mg port will now be even harder than volumetric has already made it.
@@blikblok3716 If they implement the changes, it would probably go to 5.0 or 5.3.
@@reinyfrost3753 Oh damn I actually forgot it was all the way at 5.7 now. It'll probably be down to 5.3, but if anything the Tiger H1 might move up to 6.0 since the biggest downside it has over the Tiger E would be gone.
Why I do agree with the APHE changes
I voted yes because as air main, its hilarious listening to my friends complaining while playing.
This video was Based
I hate people who comment this but it is illegal to be this early
Why not introduce armor destruction? Because if gaijin wants to make everything realistic they should add that too.
Do you mean armor degradation? iirc it was tried a long long time ago on the German tanks but turns out not a fun thing.
@@DawgIVLife Yes if an object is hit many times it wears out and weakens but mine was sarcasm I wouldn't want it in the game. Already with the top Russian tiers if they destroy your explosive armor the tank weakens
I still voting No, scew yall
Same
Instead of messing with the shells, they should do something with the uptiers... having your ww2 tank getting taken out by a guided missile, helicopter or cold war tank, doesn't sound very realistic to me
Date of production is not factored into BR in any way, shape, or form. Theyve already said this multiple times. And have said its never changing. Only performance is conaidered. The swedish 1.0 tanks were made in the late 40s/early 50s.
+1
100 % best take I've heard on this
i agree they should make early apds ap and hesh and those rounds better also why is it that a lot of british players are kind of stupid? like not all of them or most but how is it that a lot of them are a little bit stupid and dont get stuff? im not talking like about the changes but in general also not trying to hate on british mains
Wtf are you talking about british players being stupid? Theyre mostly played by people that have already played one of the big 3 nations so already know most of the things they need to know about th. game and easily play better than big 3 players.
Please everyone, vote no.
I'll be voting no as well. The concept is silly. In real life if a tank had a shell that penetrated the hull but didn't kill all the crew members, the surviving crew members would abandon the tank and run into the trees as fast as they could. They wouldn't sit there and repair the tank in 30 seconds like what happens in War Thunder. So they are attempting to make something more realistic that isn't realistic in the first place. I also agree with Dawg ... the balancing is reasonably good at the moment and this change will screw it all up. Knowing Gaijin it will take them decades to redo the balancing. Leave well enough alone.
This is such a dumb argument because it’s trying to use an extreme to hide what is an extremely basic argument. Every other shell is performing as realistic as possible or as close as they can to performance, even to the point the distinction of tungsten carbide and composite apds cores, EXCEPT aphe, they just never bothered to CORRECT aphe. That is why there isn’t “reasons” to use other shells because of the over performance of one shell category that receives NO downsides.
@@theliteralworst9416 no, your argument is dumb
@@claverton No, he's correct.
@@gamerman6405 No, he's wrong
true...
Me when the “nerf” is just adding fucking physics to a round that somehow ignored the basic laws of inertia