Wild Shape Feats for your Druid: D&D 5e Optimization
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- Опубліковано 4 лип 2024
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Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
3:04 Tough
3:59 Dwarven Fortitude
5:12 Savage Attacker
7:34 Gift of the Chromatic Dragon
9:17 Mobile
9:50 Crusher
11:09 Telekinetic
11:41 War Caster
12:08 Resilient
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Can’t wait to see the Druid/Bard mix and hearing “The Party Animal” is the only justification needed to make it
SOLD!!
How did you post a reply a month before the video was released?
@@CanisMythson patreon gets to see videos early
Telepathic is another option IMO. It lets you telepathically communicate with your friends while in wildshape, beasts generally can't talk
Good point.
That awkward moment when I wildshape to avoid RP'ing with my party on my tables and they ask me why I'm not using telepathy. (jkjk)
My DM allowed me (as druid) to see some awakened beasts, then I could transform into talking creatures.
I was the talking little green bird who shared secrets with people lol
I once unironically made a build where I took a couple levels of Great Old One warlock with Druid, picking GOO over other warlock subclasses because of the telepathy.
This is a great point, but it also emphasizes species that have built-in telepathy like the go-to Kalashtar for shoring up BarBearian Totem rage resistances.
I'm surprised Sentinel didn't make the list. A lot of the forms have strong attacks of opportunity for the same reason as why you listed Savage Attacker. However, an intelligent enemy often has no reason to attack the wildshaped druid and may instead run right past them to get at their party members, who don't have a huge pile of temporary hit points and who may be actively casting spells. Sentinel makes the druid better at keeping enemies away from their allies.
Same, Sentinel is probably the strongest feat for wildshaping. I practically soloed a duergar berserker with a challenge level of 8 as a giant constrictor snake and would attack over my summons and attack again when the zerker attacked for decent damage. Since his speed went to 0, he could never attack me.
Sentinel synergizes really well with the larger wild shape forms too. Much harder for the enemies to just skirt past your opportunity attack range when you're Huge!
I agree, but I don't think an intelligent enemy would know that a wild shaped druid would have "a huge pile of temporary hit points." They would however hesitate to attack the giant beast in favor of attacking the squishy elf in robes.
It also grants a somewhat reliable reaction attack if your wildshaped form is fighting next to a martial melee character. If they ignore the wildshaped form and attack anything that isn’t the wildshaped Druid, the enemy get reaction attacked.
@@joshholmes1372 I agree, the enemy would have to have some pretty in depth knowledge of the party members to realistically decide to ignore the literal bear in the front
I think the game needs more feats and more often.
*Pathfinder fans crawling out of the woodwork*
"Have you heard word of the good book of pathfinder 2e?"
@@sommeone Pathfinder might be good and all ( Paizo have their faults and skeletons aswell, its a corporation first and formost ) but I have invested alot into DnD, they will get a chance after their corpos went opsie, the creative team and Kyle got scapegoated etc. I RATHER go for Dragonbane/ Drakes and Demons/ Drakar och Demonar from Sweden rather than PH if an alternative to DnD
Haven't gotten to play pathfinder 2e yet but I'm looking forward to trying it. DND has gotten a bit stale for me at this rate, and the One DnD stuff just isn't doing it for me. Maybe when it's a complete product I'll feel differently but I'm kind of done with playtesting in general.
Still supporting Chris though.
@@sommeone yeah the random encounter tables are booty, non-starter.
@@steeplewiththesnakes They're so much better than 5e's
These wild shape videos have got me thinking of some wild druid builds
Bro Sentinel also works because the unarmed strikes of wild shape count as weapon melee attacks (not attacks with a melee weapon)
Waiting anxiously for those sweet, sweet builds!
Glad to see mobile on the list, since one of my player's used a moon druid in Earth Elemental with mobile to cheese a tarasque fight using it. Was probably one of my favourite moments of that campaign to be fair 😂
This is awesome, you’re the best Treantmonk! When we’re all done with 5e we’ll all know every nook and cranny thanks to you. Then we can start again! 🎉
That's the plan!
Chris passes by Savage Attacker without pause, but he doesn’t pass by it with paws…
Underrated comment
Very nice
Get out.
I feel like sentinel is also a good feat for wild shape, that reaction attack means a whole lot more if your form has only one big attack.
It also pairs well with another player using mounted combatant and riding into battle with their druid friend.
What do you think of Druids with the sentinel feat as steeds for players with mounted combatant so that the steed always gets a attack as a reaction?
As long as your rider doesn't also have the sentinel feet then that works just fine.
Since you mentioned the gift of the Cromatic dragon, gem and metallic also gives you a unique reaction in your beast form one being a hellish rebuke and the other is an AC boost and cure wounds that you may only use out of beast form.
Here's some other feats I've found could be useful, after having looked into them while preparing a Druid for an upcoming campaign:
Telepathic
Unless you start out with a race that has built in telepathy (I think there are maybe two subraces that do?) you can't communicate in Wild Shape. Being able to do so, especially for free without spells or concentration, is extremely valuable for a Moon Druid. Not just your party members, but think of the things you summon, too! Most creatures you summon with spells generally say the creatures understand and follow your verbal commands, so speaking in their mind with that same language should work, too. As an additional bonus it increases WIS, so every inch of this feat is fully used. Also, just imagine the pranks you can play on commoners when you speak to them as an animal!
Gift of the Gem Dragon
This feat is similar to Telekinetic, but with some changes. You can use your reaction to telekinetically lash out at a creature you take damage from, if they are within 10 feet of you. They make a strength save (DC 8 + proficiency + WIS) and are not only shoved 10 feet back on a failure, but take 2d8 force damage as well. You get less uses out of it than Telekinetic (as many times as your proficiency per long rest) but the added damage and usage of a reaction could merit taking it over the other. You also get to increase WIS, or CHA or INT if you want those instead, but the feat uses whichever ability score you increase with it for the save DC.
Sentinel
This one is useful for melee combat (which Wild Shapes get into, a lot) but you need to plan around this one, as it won't work if the ally you use it with also has this feat. But with it, you can make an enemy's speed 0 when you take an opportunity attack. You can also opportunity attack, even if a creature uses the Disengage action. And finally, you can use your reaction to make a melee attack on a creature that hits another target, so long as they are within 5 feet of you. One fun use I could see out of this feat is having an ally ride on your back while you're in Wild Shape, if they get attacked, you get an attack in for free!
Elven Accuracy
The XGE version of this feat gives you double-advantage on an attack you make with DEX, INT, or WIS. What this means is on any attack you make with advantage that uses those scores as a modifier, you can reroll one die if you want, giving you three chances at a hit or crit. Outside of Wild Shape this should work for bows (which use DEX) or any spell attack rolls you cast (since Druids use WIS for spellcasting). If you pair this with 'Guardian of Nature' (Great Tree), a 4th-level spell, every one of those attacks automatically is made with advantage while the spell is active, giving all those attacks double advantage! There's few Wild Shapes that can take advantage of this, but the Air & Fire Elementals both use DEX for their attacks, so you could hit really hard with those two, especially given they should work with multiattack. There's a UA version of this feat which is even more vague, allowing you to have double advantage on any attack you make with advantage, which would extend to all Wild Shape forms and the other two Elementals, but that option might be too powerful for your DM to allow, and it's from Unearthed Arcana. Still, it could help make up for some wild shapes not keeping up with damage and attack rolls at higher levels.
Elemental Touched
With this feat you can 'attune' to one of four elements during a long rest, and then use your bonus action to make one of four different effects occur, which you should be able to also do in Wild Shape form. Air lets you 'fly' with your movement, and so long as you end your movement on a surface you won't fall. Earth turns all ground within 30 feet of you (when you make the effect) into difficult terrain for a minute, and you can move through it freely. Fire causes you to not provoke opportunity attacks until the end of your turn, and Water lets you attempt to shove a creature 10 feet away from you, if they are within 15 feet of you. You can use this feat as many times as your proficiency bonus per long rest, and change which element you attune to on a long rest. This feat is from Unearthed Arcana so it might not always be allowed, but given how attuned to the elements Druids are supposed to be, this one might be allowable.
Magic Initiate
This feat can be good if you want more spells, especially a better ranged cantrip that does damage (like Fire Bolt). You can grab 2 cantrips and a 1st level spell from either Bard, Druid, Cleric, Warlock, Sorcerer, or Wizard, and get 1 slot-free 1st-level casting of it once per long rest. Mage Armor from Wizard or Shield of Faith from Cleric are good options for defense (the latter especially if you don't want to not wear armor), while Chromatic Orb from Wizard or Guiding Bolt from Cleric are good for offense. For fun flavor I also recommend 'Cause Fear' from the Warlock or Wizard spell lists, and pair it with transforming into a ferocious beast!
Metamagic Initiate
This feat is just good for any spellcaster class. Being able to modify spells with metamagic outside of the Sorcerer class is invaluable. While Subtle Spell won't let you cast spells in Wild Shape, it's still useful for casting something in areas where you can't speak, as well as letting your casting go unnoticed by others. Extended Spell will double the duration of a spell up to 24 hours max, so it's valuable for summoning spells, Guardian of Nature, or defensive spells. Quickened Spell, while consuming both socery points, is also a good choice as you can cast a single-action spell as a bonus action, though this may be less useful for Moon Druids since they can already Wild Shape as an action or bonus.
Shadow Touched
I recommend this over Fey Touched because you can't use Misty Step in Wild Shape form anyways, and you can pick a class with built-in teleportation like Eladrin (with DM approval). You get access to Invisibility, which could prove very useful with scouting or spying using smaller animal forms. Or you could cast Invisibility and Wild Shape with your bonus action and leave your enemies wondering where that big scary bear just went! You can also gain access to a handful of useful spells with this like Cause Fear (pair it with your Wild Shape for a fun first impression in battle!), Inflict Wounds, or Ray of Sickness. Shadow Touched can also increase your WIS, which Druids rely on (or INT/CHA if you need those).
Tandem Tactician
This feat lets you use the Help action as a bonus action. When you use this Help action to aid in an ally attacking a creature, the range in which you can use it extends to 10 feet, and you can use it to help up to 2 allies at the same time, provided they are attacking the same creature. This is a niche feat but if you have a lot of melee classes in your party you could make great use of it and get use out of your bonus action, which you usually don't get to use in Wild Shape form. This feat is from Unearthed Arcana, so it might not be allowed by all DMs.
Lucky
This feat is universally helpful to anyone, so it's a given to suggest it. Wild Shapes, depending on the form, might have a harder time making certain saving throws, so it can be helpful for that. Also useful for making another attempt at an attack roll or skill check, such as initiative rolls.
Alert
If you absolutely MUST be as far ahead in the turn order as possible, this one is a big help, giving you +5 to initiative rolls and giving you immunity from the Surprised condition. I recommend pairing it up with the Guidance cantrip, which if you ready before a fight and cast on the initiative roll, gives you another 1d4 to that roll. If you just want the dice rerolls and don't care about the other benefits of this feat, take Lucky instead and just reroll your initiative check.
Charger
Even with the increased speed of many beasts, you might not reach your target in one round. This feat can help with that! When you use your action to dash, you can make a melee attack or shove a creature if you get within range. This requires a bonus action, so you can't do it on your first turn if you aren't Wild Shaped, but it helps in other turns of combat. It also adds a +5 damage to your attack when you start at least 10 feet away from a creature, or when you shove a creature, they move 10 feet back instead of 5.
Some great additions, especially elven accuracy.
I would also think about Telepathic, especially if one is often being a scout in wildshape for the party.
You'd pass right by Savage Attacker without pause. But in Wild Shape, you might have paws!
Also, GREAT time for this video, so people looking at One D&D Druid playtest know the kind of fun stuff they're missing out on by losing all the buildcraft that's currently possible with Wild Shape.
Please do next: Spell to concentrate while in Wild Shape
Optimization step 1: Make sure never, ever to use the One D&D playtest version.
A pure wizard of any subclass is better in melee than the playtest Druid.
Don't forget if you're using the "play test" this video is not for you as you don't get to use feats in wild shape. Wild shape is now basically polymorph with 1-3 choices depending on your lvl.
@@nickm9102 polymorph also gives a hp buffer. New wild shape is just a debuff you put on yourself to be sad and missarable. So martial players stop crying and complaining. (Spoiler they wont)
Reminder to everyone to voice your opinion via the playtest feedback so they can change the current implementation ;)
@@lucienbreitkopf1169 judging by the result of previous feedbacks they don't care about mechanics, only collecting opinion on themes and flavor. Banishment and Aid changes weren't revoked, this game is doomed.
Have you ever made a build designed entirely around the foresight spell? A lot of times builds clamber and bend over backwards to achieve advantage, so I feel like there are a lot more possibilities when you just solve it all with one spell. Best full caster might be wizard, but I think it’d be interesting to see on a martial-as-possible bard, and also be interesting for a straight martial who is allowed to build around the spell because of a generous team member.
No, I would be hesitent to make a build around something you wouldn't get until level 17 at the earliest.
quick build that comes to mind: _ elf [w/ elven accuracy feat] + hexblade _ warlock (17+), could take eventually metamagic adept w/ extended spell as 1 of the choices for 16 hours of foresight. To weaponize their bonus action when not applying HBC they could take Crown of Stars as 7th L arcanum, or a Blade pact could weaponize their bonus action w/ PAM, Crossbow Expert* or occasionally w/ Great Weapon Master and then dump an eldritch smite on a crit. [* piercer RAW requires acquiring a magical hand crossbow for it to be able to be treated their pact weapon. Prior to Foresight coming online, they can gain attack advantage in the normal warlock ways. Crusher could also help grant advantage, or Piercer could make your crits a little more powerful.
Alternatively, Whisper's bard (17+) + hexblade warlock (1+) could have a crit eligible power strike from Psychic Blades while being SAD and having elf critfishing benefits.
Another option is pairing Mask of Many Faces w/ the Actor feat. It lets you get consistent advantage in select situations, but gains nothing from foresight. Also the Lucky Feat could be treated as Foresight light and still be applied while under the effect of foresight. And if attack rolls are less relevant, a _ halfling with Second Chance and the silver barbs spell could be fun. Maybe throw in Bountiful Luck and/or lucky at some point. If playing as a bard, wizard or druid they could have access to Enhance ability advantage while still having Foresight in their future. Bard could be good for this build since they have high fly bonuses to skill checks from expertise.
Hmm, I just noticed the following when reading the Crusher feat.
Would all half Feats bring their Ability Score bonuses over to the Wild Shape forms? I assume they would since that increase is part of the Ability that they were gained through.
This could have a significant effect on these forms!
So essentially, if you go all in on Wild Shape and give your Druid with Strength 8 a +1 Strength from Crusher, this would then mean that your shapes have these stats:
Humanoid: 8+1
Deinonychus: 15+1 (which also makes 3 attacks with its Multiattack, so that's extra siginificant)
Dire Wolf: 17+1
Brown Bear: 19+1
Etc...
The only elemental with an uneven attack-based Ability Score is the Fire Elemental, but increasing it's 17 Dex with a +1 would also be a significant increase, both to hit chance, damage, AC and saving throws.
Interesting question.
Also maybe why feats don't apply to the OneDnD-Wildshape - ASI is just another feat too.
Honest question, if the somatic part of warcaster doesn't apply, and the majority of the characters career they won't be casting spells in wildshape, wouldn't it be objectively better to take eldritch adept and select eldritch mind for flat advantage on all rolls to maintain concentration, instead of just those caused by damage?
Hi, not sure but Resilent CON does overtake getting advantage so if you were going to look to shore up your ability to maintain concentration for the +1 stat boost as well it's probably the better choice (depending of course on how high a level you are running). From a flavour perspective warcaster might be more useful if you get knocked out of wildshape and something tries to run past you (the fun of using thorn whip and shouting in your best scorpion voice - GET OVER HERE!). :o)
Nice video chris. always find out something interesting.
Thank you for these Druid deep dives. I myself am currently Shepard but my friend is a Moon druid. Sending him links to your stuff all the time. It's ggrreeeeaaatt! Keep it up!
Whew. Been waiting for the next one!
@Treantmonk you missed the best feat for boosting your Wildshape : Sentinel! Many higher CR beasts are balanced around them only getting one attack with their action (e.g. giant snapping turtle) so getting an extra attack with them from Sentinel is doubling our DPR. Plus the major strength of Wildshape for Moon Druids is that giant hit point pools their animal forms have, but those are meaningless if the enemies just ignore us (because our damage kind of sucks) Sentinel give the enemies an incentive to attack us rather than our allies thus improving our ability to tank.
Sentinel is great as long as you are the only PC with it. If you and someone else have these sentinel feet the neither of you can use it if the other is attacked while adjacent to you.
Excited about this series. Thanks!
"Builds, not build" God bless you good sir! Looking forward to the rest of the series (not just the builds 😉)
New druid video! Thank you, Chris!
Resilient Con is #1 easy. Unless you’re a sorcerer, every spell caster needs this. (Multi-class con save start aside of course)
Not every caster, looks at a newly created Barblock salivating over the idea of rage + armor of agathis
Right. That’s why I mentioned that multi-class combo start.
Looks back at character sheet, nope starts as warlock doesn't need con saves while raging but yes your point stands with 98% of casters
If there's one thing that this series makes clear it is that the switch to templates in OneDnD is essential for average players to enjoy the druid.
I will stick with you on this deep dive into Wild Shaping Druids. Good stuff!
Telepathic feat would allow you to talk to the party while in wild shape allowing you to stay in wild shape without much concern. Given that wild shape lasts a number of hours equal to your druid level rounded down you can easily take your wild shape into the next combat.
A lot of good information thank you
LOVE this series. Cant wait for the builds.... I'm currently playing a lvl 10 Gnoll Moon Druid (Homebrew Race) and looking for multiclass options that will help me survive as the main frontline meatsack for the party.
Other great feats are:
- Magic initiate for mage armor, booming blade with shillelagh and minor illusion or mage hand tricks (which lasts for a min and doesn't require concentration so you could improve your odds on surprise before wild shape)
- fighting initiate or 1 fighter lvl for 1. blindfighting to stack it with fog spells like fog cloud, dust devil and druid grove
- Eldritch adept 1.devil's sight because some beasts don't have darkvision and if you have a reliable source of magical darkness, then same idea than with fog spells.
Really looking forward for the builds. Hope to see a mounted combatant on top of druid
As dm, how I remedied it for a druid at my table is I gave him a magic item that grants +1CR to wildshape options. I also have ideas of other items or boons/blessings that can be granted to that let you use max damage on a wildshape attack, perhaps by using a spell slot to supercharge it or by using a charge on an attuned magic item. I like the idea of personalized magic items that fit a character. That is why when I plan my campaigns I will write magic item down for loot, but not decide it until I know what classes the players are. No use giving a magic spellbook reward when there's no wizards. I can also combine it with another magic item so they get a benefit in base form like a ring of protection that also grant +1 wildshape CR.
I also have lots to extra monster manuals to give more options for wildshape. Pretty sure I have 6 CR 6 beasts available.
If your only goal is concentration, Eldritch Mind is the superior option.
Can barely wait for the multiclassing vídeo
I like pairing Charger on this kind of toon. With a lot of the beast forms like elephant mammoth and rhino already incentivizing movements and attacks that would prock the feat plus everything with pounce pairing it with mobile means you can reliably get off charge attacks provided there is enough space for such creatures.
I think Tough also doesn't apply during Wild Shape. However, I don't think I'd argue against a DM who says it does; I think there's a reading of the rules that says it does and that it's somewhat legitimate, it's just not my interpretation nor what I think the designers intended.
Yeah, according to JC it doesn't, buit if the DM allows it, then it does ofc
RAW is unclear, RAI - it doesn't.
'Your hp max' - I read this as the max hp of your character. And when you wildshape HP is replaced by hp in a statblock.
But also, if you keep your temporary hp ( inspiring leader buff, for example ), I don't see why it shouldn't carry over max hp. Still it feels not right.
At the same time, using Aasimar wings in wildshape is ok for me.
Rule of thumb: wildshape overrides physical feats (str/dex/con, tail, winds, claws), but keeps your 'mental': skills, saving throws, int/wis/cha. Spellcasting is one of them and it is explicitly highlighted as an expection.
Hard agree with Treantmonk that neither Tough nor Dwarven Toughness should apply to Wild Shape forms.
I think the tough phrasing is confusing, but i do interpret it as "you get the hp amount of twice your level" followed by the answer to the question "my leven at which point of the game?" which would be "when you get this feature". So, every time you level up you don't update your hp, because it was twice the level at the moment of getting it. However, if we do understand it like this, it would apply to wildshape.
Your druid videos have definitely inspired me to play my bugbear monk Druid, it feels like this is the only time monk levels will ever be optimal.
With exactly 2 levels in Monk it buffs the AC of wild shapes and I can flurry of blows, during my surprise attack rounds.
Although, if I was willing to take anything more than two levels out of druid, echo knight or gloom stalker would be better offensively.
Mobile is very important if you like the charging/pouncing forms that need to move a certain number of feet towards an enemy before they attack in order to get the best damage and/or knock the other guy prone. On your turn you move in, hit with your charge bonus, then back out. You'll need to have someone else keeping them in place on the frontline, but assuming the other guy is where you left him you'll be free to charge in again on your next turn. Great for a moon druid who wants to be a skirmisher more than a tank.
Further inclusions include
Telepathic:
Druids often find the main reason they might need to leave wild shape between fights is to talk, so telepathy is as good as another wild shape resource if you aren't taking short rests between each combat.
Charger: Charger use to suck because it forfeits your ability to multi attack and only works if you dash, while mobile gets rid of your need to dash 1/3rd of the time and allows you to skirmish 2/3rds of the time, but many beasts only make one attack anyway, and if you fix your AC your health is fairly disposable, so charge can effectively double your movement speed for free with a bit of extra damage, pair it on a beast that knocks prone or pushes away on a hit, or grapples and takes the target with them, yes charger still works in this situation, and it's a free +5 damage on hit, double movement per turn, and you aren't even particularly vulnerable for skirmishing with it. Though it only combos ideally with specific wild shape choices AND build choices.
Dragon hide: Normally this feat provides the same AC increase as a dex increase in someone wearing light armor, and no benefit to someone with other unarmored defense, or medium or heavy armor. In addition to providing a d4 (worthless) natural weapon. It would be worthless if it weren't a half-feat for both increasing a light armored character AC and HP. But on a druid, an AC of 13 + dex is almost always higher than the AC you can get even from being a war forge. Though you could also get it by getting magic initiate or multiclassing for mage armor, or being a lizard folk (maybe) this happens to be a half feat too so it's quite nice.
If your DM rules your form isn't physically capable of the AC bonus of warforge or lizardfolk because those AC come from explicit physical traits you lack during wildshape, you can still use this feat, because you don't need to be physically capable of benefiting from a feat to use it. Only race features and equipment. You do still have to be a dragonborn. Which isn't a good option outside of this feat
Fighting initiate: unarmed fighting for a d8 attack in any form and bonus damage on your grapples is really good for things like water elementals or giant constrictor snakes that have attacks that grapple automatically. The only other fighting style that works is blind fighting, which if you needed you'd just turn into something that has and maneuvers which if you needed you'd turn into something that has a rider. Bait and switch, however, is really good, i'd take this and charger for a grapple wildshape build since animals that have rider grapples don't need to use feats to boost their athletics!
Sentinel: Since so many forms have rider effects, increased ranges, or are large, the opportunity to provoke a sentinel attack can administer crowd control like knocking prone or grappling quite potently.
telekenetic can be used to move yourself or allies away from enemies to save them opportunity attacks. i do it all the time.
Feats: TELEPATHIC is a must for moon druids. resilient and lucky are also good. Tavern brawler is one to consider. Piercer or Slasher or Crusher don't say they need weapons (applies to spell caster, applies to claws :) I would choose savage attacker AFTER pic War Caster and Resilient are other two to go with.
I'd start with resilient (CON) or Piercer, then Telepathic, and War caster to keep big spells going. You could choose Crusher or Slasher depending on whether the creatures you choose to shape into do bludgening or slashing damage (most do piercing). but I'd start with either war caster or resilient (goign with resilient first) and then telepathic, Then Piercer or crusher, and then war caster (or Resilient) and maybe crusher if you go that far into your campaign. NOW, I say Piercer over crusher because most creatures I shape into do piercing damage. Again, Telepathic OVER telekinetic to communicate, and SOrry, but I wouldn't bother with telekinetic. It is good and if NO one has picked it up, maybe. BUT I tend to use my bonus action to use spells like flaming sphere, heat metal, moon bean (basically those that alow me to use a onus action to move, do damage, etc) or healing spirit, so using telekinetic to move is just not something I'd do. If I want to move, pick up the Gust cantrip. Same thing really.
I disagree with Telekinetic. Go for Telepathic instead.
Ignore tough.
A 1 level dip into Barbarian for the Rage is a great feat.
Creating a Bear-zerker.
It also lets you have a higher AC if the beast has a good Con and Dex, via Unarmored Defense.
I'm playing a half orc moon druid with the Orcish Fury feat. DM allowed me to use the damage bonus with the wild shape nat weapons (it's just once per encounter, for God sake) and the relentless endurance trait works nicelly with the beasts his points. Thinking of dip one level on war cleric and savage attacks for this build on the future
I like the thought of a lvl 20 druid with the tough feat turning into a mosquito and a poor peasent trying to squash it.
Charger has proven to be good and fun in my experience. I’m not a math guy so I’m not in a situation to say it’s the best. But it’s definitely fun and powerful
Charger is alright, certainly on druid but not great though at least it is usable unlike most other classes.
If flavour & concept is the goal then Charger + sentinel pair well but is it optimal? (Simply No!)
Is it fun? (yes!)
Just know not to use it at a high difficulty combat table.
Nice video! I was wondering though, do you not do the colour-coded rating scale anymore when evaluating mechanical options? I always found it helpful!
Resilient Constitution, Plus warcaster, plus polymorph. By level nine I can polymorph myself into a giant scorpion that has the ability to be a formidable tank that as the possibility to grapple two enemies at the same time and still apply damage. Yes I know that it is a concentration spell that requires a spell slot, but if utilized properly it is far more effective in battle then wild shaping and I can still use the wild companion option and turn my familiar into a Raven so that I can communicate with my party and it would be able to giving me the help action so that I can have advantage on my grapples and attacks.🤓
Hello Chris how was your day, I hope it treats you well. Thank you for your investigations into the possibilities and calming the minds of those that tend to react with anger. So I've been thinking about the D&D one changes to Druid. If in my wild shape form if I can speak normally do you think it is possible if I was to have the Mage hand cantrip for a druid in their new wild shape form even at low levels to cast Mage hand and then utilize it for the somatic components so that Druids can cast any spell that does not require a material components.🧐
Builds? 🤔 Can't wait to see those.🥳
(Meta magic Adept) =10/10 on druid
'Extended spell' - double duration of concentration spell in wild shape form.
Twinned spell - useful mainly out of wild shape but a fair few druid low level spells like 'entangle' or 'healing word' are often worth twinning.
(Meta Magic Adept) is the best feat for druids as it is beneficial in or out of wild shape.
My 2nd choice if not (resilient constitution) would be lucky but more flat stats are often worth it on the druid as a eventual 20 in wisdom & constitution is nice which is not hard to achieve to be a chunky caster.
lv 1 you can easily have 16 in both mentioned stats then use 4 ASI's & 1 feat which I highly advice-recommend (meta magic adept)!
Alert could also be an honorable mention. I wouldn’t rush towards it but still, going first (or significantly increasing your chances of going first) is a good idea especially since your entire build depends on you being wildshaped
If we were to calculate Tough, it would have to relate your maximum hit dice, which changes while you are Wild Shaped. Since creature stat blocks don't have actual levels.
But that's not how Tough is worded, so probably not gonna fly in most groups.
Technically speaking, you still gain your 2 HP/lvl from Tough while Wildshaped, because it’s base on your level, not your hit dice, and it’s a feature currently allowed to be used while Wildshaped.
@@jeffersonian000Where are you seeing people allow it? I know Jeremy said it's not RAI which implies that it's RAW, but honestly I think he dropped the ball there as there appears to be a good case for it not working RAW, as Chris points out.
Curious if you are seeing people make the "RAI so not RAW" argument for it's inclusion.
@@seankellar6817
It’s plainly written that it works that way. I don’t care what Jeremy Crawford writes in a tweak, I go by the rules as written plus errata.
@@jeffersonian000 Same here, I'm a RAW + errata purist.
The first part in Tough states that you get some HP "when you gain this feat". When you Wildshape, your HP, including this boost, is overridden by the form. When you Wildshape you may retain the feat, sure, but Wildshaping is not taking the feat anew, and so the timing on the boost is already past.
I think if Tough is to work, then by the same logic, half-feats that grant +1 to Str, Dex or Con would also apply that ASI boost to your form. Do you rule Wildshape that way?
@@seankellar6817
ASI’s do apply to Wildshape, per Wildshape. “You retain the benefits of any features of your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is capable of doing so.” Feats are features. ASI’s are features. Racial stat bonuses are features. Your form changes, but the character is still the same person with the same abilities, just in a new body that changes your base physical stats and uses a different set of hit dice, senses, attacks, and speed categories. This the main reason why the new OneD&D Druid is hot garbage, because you loss access to all of your character’s features while Wildshaped.
Honestly, now that I think about it, savage attacker might be good on a rogue. Considering it's the only martial that is built to hit hard on single attacks, being able to get insurance on sneak attack damage might be worth it.
I will say though that it probably shouldn't be limited to melee weapons. Either remove the weapon requirement, or remove the turn limit. Make it give a plus one to str or dex.
Hey, Chris, Optimancers here!
The best part of wildshape is the versatility, not the power but in a game where combat is more important then utility, it has a free fall of use
Weird interaction that is not entirely on theme with the video: Dwarven Fortitude is actually really good on a monk that wants to *kinda* frontline. Essentially you use your bonus action to Patient Defense and also roll a hit die, without sacrificing your action.
Dont think anybody has mentioned yet that Dwarven Fortitude might not be an option because of that "being physically capable" thing. I think I would personally allow it even though dwarven "blood" running through your "veins" is technically mentioning anatomy.
friend is playing a tabaxi moondruid2/open hand monk 4 character right now.
Its not a high-optimized game, but the HP buffer served him well enough so far.
That character and this video got me thinking about how I would build a moon druid.
I don't if it's multiclassed with open hand I'd want to make use of spike growth. If multiclassing with soul knife rogue however I think you could do some fun stuff with land druid grass domain (minimum of 5 lvls for haste, maybe pick up metamagic adept for quicken spell or if your stats and lvls allow it 3 lvls of sorcerer). Cast haste on yourself (as a bonus action if possible) wild shape into an Ape (CR 1/2), which has hands, a throwing attack, multi-attack and a climbing speed, so you can chuck upto 4 psychic knives in a turn or spread out your attack actions over multiple turns from a distance and remain safe at the same time. I like the idea of doing this with a wildhunt shifter with the athlete feat. (not to mention that rogues cunning action will make that doubled 40 movement speed even better and that for a wildshaping non-moon druid. The wildshape isn't here for tanking, but to flex your creativity+for some utility/better movement)
Edit: while you have almost no hp Baboon CR0 has also got hands and pack tactics, could be fun if you are riding a buddy (/dip into rune knight so he rides you) with that auto advantage.
Question on Tough - What happens if you level up while in wild shape? Do those 2 points then apply to that Wild Shape instance and effectively disappear when you revert back? Obviously that wouldn't be a reasonable ruling, but is it correct going by the strict wording?
Agree though that I don't think the intent or RAW align with giving wild shape forms more HP. Not going to break anything balance wise allowing it though.
Combined with rage though, could be a pretty killer combo. Maybe even a go-to. I agree it probably shouldn't work though.
I take telekinetic so I can talk to my party regardless of what wildshape form I’m in if I go moon Druid. Also really helps setup for min distance actions like pounce.
Telepathic?
I took eldritch adept to get mage mage armor for my druid. I might switch it out for devil's sight though because our enemies do lots of magical darkness stuff.
Lucky should def be in this list.
I see I have met my mood kindred as that is my 2nd to 3rd choice after meta magic adept for druid!
(lucky) is always a good choice.
The disrespect to savage attacker. When it fits in your build its an amazing feat.
Thanks Chris.
Also, what about Charger?
I'd love you to still do the races that might work with wildshape. Like Lizardfolk hungry jaws.
What do you think of Eldritch Adept: Armour of Shadows? I'm playing a moon druid with it currently and am enjoying having 15-16 AC in wildshape and 18 AC in druid form. Might switch it over to Eldritch Mind at some point to try that out though.
Now I'm thinking something like: Monk 2/Moon Druid X, that Dwarf feat, and use ki to dodge a couple of times per short rest to get you some healing back. Cool, but just eyeing it up it doesn't look strong enough to be worth it. Though, maybe a permissive GM would say animal form attacks let you martial arts? Even then though, eh. Maybe in a low optimisation environment.
Charger is quite hilarious on druids, especially paired with mobile.
Savage attacker is a great feat to have and use. One attack you roll the damage twice and take the better damage. What is not to love with that for a melee class?
With wild shape being the focus of many recent videos, and the discussions currently occurring online after the Druid UA came out I'd be interested to know where you stand on this issue. Should Wild Shape be as intergrated as it is with the base Druid class, particularly when only one subclass really offers any expansion off of this feature? I don't think we'd see a full Druid redesign away from multiple levels of enchantments to Wild Shape, but it's been fun to talk with others about how central they view this ability to the core of what makes a Druid.
IMO, wildshape is such a common magical archetype that it shouldn't be locked behind druid levels. Additionally it's weird to have it at your disposal when you just want to play your druid as a nature mage. It could be cool if wildshape could be used for something generally useful and w/ less animal baggage, like temporarily gaining durability by having like a treant or some other durable earthy form.
I don't really mind all druids having it, but I wrote a feat like meta magic adept so that at least other characters could get access to it w/o an off theme multiclass diversion.
Does Dragon Fear not work in wild shape? I thought it would be a neat "spell-like ability" to use while wild-shaped last time I read it... Unless you lose your breath weapon *uses* while you're in a different form?
i really like your ideas and perspectives on things, but i have to say: as a dm, i would not allow any of these to apply in wild shape.... i think if you turn into a brown bear, you should be the brown bear, and not something boosted on steroids... and the reason behind is that its a beast, it doesn't have feats. but i might be mistaken here, so who knows. all in all, good video and thank you
I’ll be sticking with you Chris! Looking forward to the builds and this series has been a huge help as a first time Druid and D&D player.
I think you missed a Great feat option.
Dragonborn racial feats.
Aoe fear breath weapon,
Or
+3 base ac to help out those lower armor class beasts
Treatmonk, I am really curious, could you give a more detailed explanation of why you believe Resilient Con is better than War Caster for succeeding concentration saves? I've seen discourse back and forth on whether advantage or proficiency is better and I'd love to hear your take. It would be very helpful for my build as I soon reach level 8 in moon druid.
Resilient Con scales with your proficiency bonus, and is less swingy in nature. Also, it applies to ALL con saves, not just concentration. Not to mention the other benefits of just raising your Con, like HP per level.
Advantage basically bumps the roll average of your D20 from 10.5 to somewhere around 13.82. So even if we ignore the fact that this is an average, and not a flat bonus. Resilient Con flat out overtakes Advantage once your proficiency hits +4.
Also, at a certain point, Resilient Con basically makes it so you can't fail lower checks.
The Savage Attacker feat isn't very appealing, I agree. If nothing else, it is narratively boring.
Anyways, here are the damage increases for re-rolls of specific dice using Savage Attacker:
1d3: 2,0 => 2,44
1d4: 2,5 => 3,13
1d6: 3,5 => 4,47
1d8: 4,5 => 5,81
1d10: 5,5 => 7,15
1d12: 6,5 => 8,49
1d20: 10,5 => 13,83
2d3: 4,0 => 4,64
2d4: 5,0 => 5,89
2d6: 7,0 => 8,37
2d8: 9,0 => 10,85
2d10: 11,0 => 13,32
2d12: 13,0 => 15,79
2d20: 21,0 => 25,66
3d3: 6,0 => 6,79
3d4: 7,5 => 8,59
3d6: 10,5 => 12,18
3d8: 13,5 => 15,75
3d10: 16,5 => 19,33
3d12: 19,5 => 22,90
3d20: 31,5 => 37,22 (estimate)
4d3: 8,0 => 8,92
4d4: 10,0 => 11,26
4d6: 14,0 => 15,93
4d8: 18,0 => 20,62 (estimate)
4d10: 22,0 => 25,29 (estimate)
4d12: 26,0 => 29,97 (estimate)
4d20: 42,0 => 48,69 (estimate)
Most of the numbers are based on running all possible permutations of said dice, and a the ones marked "estimate" are based on linear regression estimates.
What do you think of Mage Slayer now that it works in wild shape?
I took Resilient for my Mood Druid feat 😎
I feel like telepathy deserved a shout out
Hey Chris do you happen to have a druid video playlist?
Okay, seeing the comments section, I really do wonder what distracted Treantmonk from noticing Sentinel during his research.
You pass by savage attacker without “paws”? 😂
First off, i would totally let feats transfer over to a druids wildshape as long as it didnt slow down the game such as tough. Id tell theplayer to have that figured out before they change. My thing is that wildshape replaces your physical stats while keeping your mental stats the same. If I was to place any restrictions on these I would not allow feats that have to do with physical attributes.
I love Magic Initiate (Wizard) to take Mage Armor. It makes the base AC of Wild Shaped forms 13 + your Dex modifier the only question is, does Natural Armor make Mage Armor not work the way wearing armor makes Mage Armor not work? Or does Mage Armor replace Natural Armor?
Major armor would replace natural armor since they are both AC calculations. Although, there is some question about whether natural armor would simply cause mage armor to terminate since you are technically dawning armor with it.
@@undrhil From the description of Mage Armor: “The spell ends if the target dons armor or if you dismiss the spell as an action.” Does Wild Shaping into a beast with Natural Armor count as donning armor?
@@tscoff No idea. That is why I said "there is some question…"
5E's armor class system is super confusing.
Mage armor in wild shape would be 13 plus the form's dex bonus. That's it. If it has 14 dex, you'd have 15 AC. Nothing else would modify it. Not natural armor or anything else.
@@Amanofan7777 Even still, it would be worth it to ask your DM about it.
Gift of the chromatic dragon isnt hopeless for a barbarian either as you can yse it during rage
I want to make Rage Bear build, would you recommend to start lv1 Barb and follow 2 level of druid?
my idea was to all in Wisdom and Const starting stat, get strength and const saving throw prof and the good starting hp is nuts, then get the Resilient feat for wisdom at lv 5
yes i do know that will make a very very weak lv1 and 2
I was considering Eldritch Adept and Armor of Shadows for unlimited mage armor to be an air elemental with 18AC. But I'm not sure if that's worth a whole feat.
Is your proficiency bonus your own ability or not? Does a PB increase carry over at higher levels to a lower CR beasts?
Looking at the 5th level moon druid with pb +3 and shapeshifting to a dire wolf, does your attack change from +5 to +6 and does the save for prone effect change from DC 13 to DC 14?
This does enhance some CR forms a little bit at higher levels, but you do have to check how the beast's stats are calculated.
The highest PB is applied. Which is good for skills or saving throws, however not attacks; the reason being the beast forms use natural weapons and there is no way to get proficiency in natural weapons in 5e, so your attacks will just slowly start to miss more often as you level. I have had GMs allow it because it's really a bigger problem past level 6, where wildshape is no longer that great.
For clarification: you do get the beast's PB, but it is almost always worse than your character's.
@@hebel9372 I was under the impression that you would always be proficient with Natural Weapons for the same reason all creatures have proficiency with their Unarmed Strikes.
@@hebel9372 You are always proficient in the weapons (including natural weapons) of the shape you change into.
See the sidebar on Monster Manual page 9.
@@rogerwilco2 The beast you change into is proficient, yes. However, it says for wildshape,
"You also retain all of your skill and saving throw proficiencies, in addition to gaining those of the creature. If the creature has the same proficiency as you and the bonus in its stat block is higher than yours, use the creature's bonus instead of yours."
The problem here is that your character does not have proficiency, so you get the benefit of the beast's proficiency, which in almost all cases is a +2. Moreover, I believe that rule is saying you could only ever apply your character's proficiency to skills and saving throws anyway, so even if you were proficient, you still use the beast's.
@@SunLovinSolaire As best as I can tell, that is not the case. Natural weapons are not like unarmed strikes and a beast attacking with a natural weapon does not count as an unarmed strike., There has been a lot of discussion and tweets from JC about this because it had strange interactions with wildshape, that's why all the player races with special attacks (like claws) are now clarified they are unarmed strikes.
My DM gave my rogue Savage Attacker as a boon and it has been useful, though we've been playing it that Sneak Attack is part of the weapon damage and can be rerolled. I'm guessing from your comments that that isn't the case by RAW?
Question on the subject of Wildshape: What would you do to improve the One DnD Playtest version of wildshape?
That sounds like you'd have to reroll all the dice if you were to rule it applied to Sneak Attack.
Though the Feat does say 'weapon damage dice,' so it doesn't look that way RAI.
Would make the Feat more usable tbh.
Treant Monk, do you think the bonus action grab from tavern brawler applies to wild shape attacks ? Because it's basically unarmed attack, right? 🤔
Can you suggest anything to mitigate status effects? Essentially, riders on melee attacks where Wildshape form AC makes you a sitting duck...
Cast Freedom of Movement on yourself and take Resilient Constitution. You should already have awesome Wisdom saves, decent Intelligence saves, Resilient takes care of everything with a Con save (stun, poison). Most conditions that target Dex & Str saves involve some kind of grapple / restraint which Freedom of Movement essentially makes you immune to.
@@agilemind6241 I got attacked by some ghosts that had an exhaustion rider. This went on for about 3 games; we did Straahd -- werewolfism hit me at least once and I failed the save; there was one other thing I can't remember at the moment, but it just made playing the low AC moon druid unfun. ***** Your suggestions are appreciated, but my thinking is more along the lines of Chris's: It's best not to need a saving throw, or be able to shore yourself up with something that helps when you fail the saving throw. THAT is why I was asking him.
@@willtharp7477 I don't know of way of what you were asking for the best I can do is a race recommendation (vedalken get advantage on Int, Wis and Cha saves) or find a high AC Paladin that wouldn't mind riding you. (bonus points if he has mounted combatant)
How did "Telepathic" not make your list? :)
I think you missed out on talking about dragonborne racial feats for use during wildshape.
Aoe fear
Or
+3 to base ac for those beast that are lower on armor class.
3:04 Hm. I think that this really is a matter of subjectivity.
“When you take this feat” I think is actually irrelevant here. What I think is the important distinction is what it means by “your hit point maximum”.
If MHP means “current MHP”, then wildshape would always be affected, since you assume the hit points of the beast. It’s a floating modifier that dynamically alters your maximum.
However, if it means “MHP when you take the feat”, then no. But theoretically, if you were to be wildshaped while taking the feat, you would lose the feat when you reverted back.
It also feels like a question of order of operations, as well. If wildshape acts before tough, then tough alters the new hit point total.
But do we do that with other feats? For example, if I wildshaped into a snake and had tavern brawler, would I be able to coil my tail around a barstool and whack someone over the head with it? Would I get that 1d4 improvised weapon damage?
I dunno, but I’d allow it.
improvised weapons deal 1d4 even without the feat, the feat just lets them add their proficiency to the attack roll.