Excuses... As in explaining why there is absolutely no physical evidence for a magic entity that has no consideration for anything but itself, nor any actual moral base. The declarations are right there in your bible.
I liked that line that was like “there can only be this morality if there is some mind prior to the human mind that gave us that understanding.” Really good.
There WERE minds that came before and from those minds came "morality". You simply are just ignoring the minds that preceded your mind. Of all the religious claims, assertions and assumptions one rarely hears about the REAL origin of morals. It's quite simple really. All one has to do is LOOK. When you were a child, where did your values come from? Did you honestly get messages in your head out of the clear blue sky? Every single idea you incorporated into your consciousness came from SOMEONE ELSE, like your parents, friends, extended family, etc. To sum that all up your values were inculcated in to your psyche by your environment or in other words SOCIETY and all the "society" that came before you. Society sets expectations of civility, limitations on individual behavior, establishes laws and imposes punishments. And in case you haven't noticed, each culture or nation sets their own standards. That makes values/morals relativistic debunking the idea there is such a thing as "objective" morality. Unfortunately, it appears for most people though they prefer the "easy way out" of a dilemma. It's easier and more convenient to jump to a conclusion of god than to accept the realities of the empirical/natural world you were born into. I suspect were you to take that to your grave, will you REALLY find out the truth?
Well, I wouldn't say it's exactly the 'easier' way. The point is that if a society created morality under the influence of an evolutionary drive for survival, it is statistically impossible that it could survive on its own at the dawn of its creation. Also, if that's your claim, then absolutely nothing can be attributed to me if I go to rob a bank now, say, I don't know if you understand me... The point is that if moral laws are the work of human minds they would find a way to function harmoniously in the community for the sake of survival, then we reduce moral laws to simple applications of survival strategies, and in that case, true morality in its essence does not exist, which leaves us with the conclusion that at the end of the day you cannot blame anyone for anything, because anyone can to propose a counterargument and to say that his view of morality is different and that's it.
@@Am3deoAvogadro That shows a certain shallowness to your worldview. Contrary to your [false] conclusion that "it is statistically impossible that it could survive on its own at the dawn of its creation." you have NO evidence whatsoever to support such a claim. In fact... paleontologists, anthropologists and sociologists agree that were it not for SOCIAL COOPERATION, homo sapiens might not have survived this long. Even IF we were to start with the Adam and Eve, those mythical created creatures and no one else, those two would've found it necessary to establish certain behavioral guidelines, division of labor, expectations from the other person, etc. in order to attain and sustain civility. And those guidelines would've been compelled by nothing else but the NATURAL order of things. For example, who was going to go hunting for meat? The obvious choice would be "man" with man's bigger bone and muscle inheritance. Women obviously for child bearing. Etc. So, the evidence IS the beginnings of civilized human social behavior came from People, not some ghost in the sky. What's really troubling though, is the propensity of grown adults to choose an empty theology to live by and not give society [other people] any credit for maintaining order.
Like people invented it. If there is another dimension that has never heard of our version of a god, morality still exists. We only made up the word for it. How moral is sneaking into someone else's home, stealing everything they have worked their life for, then ending their life as they sleep, and then calling it a gift from god. How moral is building a church, forcing your dirt poor followers to make it out of the finest gold and jewels, and then forbid the sick, fatherless children, or those born with defects from entering? Did you sanctify your first child to god like it says you must, including all the firstborn of your livestock as well? Ya, that is some serious morality there....
@samuelnoklang3724 Who said they processed morality - they have a societal function, nothing more. A lioness when having to try and enter into another pride and she has young, what do you think they have to do with the young of the previous male? When wolves/dogs have social packs, why is it that only one male has access to the females when there are enough females to pair off with the other males? Does a snake have morals?.... Do you think that a python as a pet allies itself with the owner because it bonds with them, or is it because the human serves a reliable food source? You didn't think about that question before you asked it.
@BobaDavis Exactly my friend! This is why you can't define morality yourself as you think! We as humans are made in the image of God according to the Bible, that's the reason why we are instilled within us since the time we are created the morality you think you're able to define on your own which other animals cannot. Jesus Christ is real, do not blaspheme against your Creator!!
@samuelnoklang3724 Negative, we have always determined our own sense of morality, we do it everyday. There are no values instilled in us since our birth - go to China and tell them that... Go to Saudi Arabia and tell them this, lol.
A christian response. 1. If God doesn't exist, the universe wouldn't be immoral because that presupposes a standard of morality. 2. God did not create morality, God is the standard. God's nature is the perfect good or The Good and any act that deviates from The Good is what is evil.
If God created morality then that means morality is relative to God. Which means God can make good evil, and evil good. So that wouldn't make it objective.
@@BerishaFatianNo, it rather means that the God's standard of morality is objective, and If you think per se that something that God thinks is good is in your opinion wrong, then you're wrong.
@@maxleichner9447How so? By your supposition, the creator of morality is still your creator too! Morality will still complement what is created after. Morality is an inherent characteristic of GOD. GOD is the same yesterday , today and forever, unlike man Who's morality is wholly subjective on their whims.
Your god say taht it's not moraly wrong to own slaves for life, so i guess that the americam revolution to free slaves is the biggest act against the will of god and therefore the biggest act of evil humans have done.
Morality comes from God who is far greater than man. His holiness and righteousness is what gives Him power. It gives God the ability to rule the universe, earth you me and everyone else. Man doesn’t have that power because man is unrighteous. But God through Jesus Christ allows us to tap into His power.” But God demonstrates His own love towards us in that while we were still sinners Christ died for us.” Roman’s 5:8.
When i was an atheist i asked a religious person "what if you die and it turns out that God doesn't exist?" And he calmly said "what if you die and it turns out he does exist?" That was the moment i had to rethink about my relationship with God.
What if you die and realise you bought into a lie. It's never wise to think you have "found it" or are even on the right path. It's the most dangerous position to be in. I get very suspicious when there are masses going one way and especially when they say "here it is" or "this is how you find it".
@@Jwfghb642CS Lewis said Christianity if wrong is of no importance…..if true it is of the most importance…. One thing it can not be is moderately important…..
Then again there is the thought of living simply for ourselves rather than experiencing the joy and glory of being Christ which is so much more than being true to our selves.
@@bradleygonzalez1160 CS Lewis was wrong if he viewed a belief in christianity "if wrong" would be of no importance. Because if it is wrong and people still believe it and what it claims about the universe, then those who believe are believing an untrue claim. That might not necessarily be a problem but what happens is people rely upon their beliefs when making "secular" [worldly] decisions. And if their ideas about the real world are wrong then they're going to make wrong decisions that effect other people.
Yes, believing old superstition and woo woo is very wise. Pretty much every isolated civilisation on earth has made up its own myths and legends regarding origins and gods. It is human nature to make stuff up when we don't have all the facts and christianity, judaism and islam are no different.
@TheTruthKiwi Not all those paths are wise. That's why those pseudo-religions did not span the globe as Christianity has. Many false religions does not mean the teachings of Christianity are false as well. I implore you to pursue the Bible. It will change your life. God bless!
@@zacharylewis7702 Just because the strongest culture at the time believed christianity and spread it around the world that doesn't mean it is true. I've read the bible and it is clearly a rule-book and possible man-made explanation of the universe. In the 2000+ years since it was written it has been found to be most likely wrong.
@@zacharylewis7702 Just because the strongest culture at the time spread christianity around the world doesn't make it true. I've read the bible and it is obviously a man made law book and possible explanation of the universe. In the 2000+ years since it was written we have found that it is most likely to be false.
If there is no God and morality from God, then nobody can claim what Hitler and his National Socialists did was wrong. They believed what they did was correct and moral to their views. We can only righteously judge them for being not only immoral but depraved because we have the right moral standard through God, his words, design and his creation of mankind.
_" then nobody can claim what Hitler and his National Socialists did was wrong."_ Humans can because humans have defined what they consider to be good and bad. _"They believed what they did was correct and moral to their views."_ ...and it contradicts thousands of years of morality and ethics. It contradicts what humans overwhelmingly agree on. Slavery and genocide is something that the god of the bible had no problem with.
Do you really belive that atheist think hitler did good in ww2? Btw, the main kampf is full of rethotic that use god to prove the rightness of their action. So the morality of the nazi is moral for them because god said so. Not very different from your point of view it seems to me.
I can claim he’s wrong, just not on some fundamental principle of the universe or whatnot. Not liking that is due to people giving themselves a privilege, I can talk about what is objectively good, they don’t have a right to.
Atheism is not a religion. I was raised a Roman Catholic, which is a religion based solely on faith, Atheism, at least for me, is a lack of belief in any gods due to a lack of evidence for their existence. When any god provides me with evidence of their existence then I will change my mind.
I do believe that if a person says you can have object meaning without god, that is a flawed idea. The thing is, religion has this same flaw. There is no objective meaning to life even with a god. Sure, he can tell you what he wants you to do based off his own morals and values (which makes them subjective even if they are supposedly never changing) with your life and you follow it, that’s still you subjectively deciding that is the purpose of your life by agreeing to follow that want. A non religious belief system can also tell you what the meaning of your life is (we all have a moral duty to make the world a better place for example) and it’s up to you to agree with this or not.
@@_SloppyhamUnfortunately for your reply, there is a rule that all should follow: "believe in the guy that rose from the dead, not the guy who stayed dead or will stay dead." The person who believes in Jesus, who conquered death, will have eternal life. If that isn't clearly defining a meaningful life, then who are you to decide what is meaningful outside of Jesus? You're just a dead man walking awaiting the judgment. A man who receives God's goodness every waking moment and doesn't thank Him. A man who receives God's goodness and breaks His divine law by not loving his neighbor selflessly, even when that love is not reciprocated. Why would I want to side with someone like you who is that hopeless person I described? Jesus said, "he who seeks his life will lose it and he who loses his life for My sake shall find it." He also says, "what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul?" May God open your eyes.
@@chrismount5069 then your original point is the atheist flaw is not about objective meaning, which is what the video was about, it’s that atheism is false in its claim. Which of course we will agree to disagree about. I will say, power (being all powerful and being able to come back alive) means nothing for a moral argument. Unless you subscribe to “might makes right” in which case that’s all that matters. You completely changed the topic from what I originally what referring to.
John 6:44 CSB [44] No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up on the last day. Its more than just a logical argument......it's a belief that cant attain unless we're drawn by God to be conformed to the image of his son (Romans 8:29) God bless you all and may we endure till the end (Mathew 24:13)
We see examples of BOTH God' s election AND free will Perhaps ,because without faith , it is impossible to please God( Hebrews 11:6 )and there are many who won't believe .... " Even if a man were raised from the dead"( Luke 16:31) Free will.... 2 Peter 3:9.... God is not willingly that any should perish... John 3:16.... For God so loved the world that WHOSOEVER believeth..... Both... Matthew 23:37 (free will) (Jesus wept over Jerusalem and said) " How often I would have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, AND YOU WERE NOT WILLING! " Matthew 23:38-39 ( election / God choosing) Behold, your house is left to you desolate. For I say unto you, ye shall not seen me henceforth, to ye shall say, Blessed is He that cometh in the name of the Lord. Seeing that He is Omniscient Knowing the end from the beginning.... The Lamb of God , slain BEFORE the foundation of them world Revelation 13:8 + 1 Peter 1:19-20 Hebrew 12:2 Matthew 11:23 And thou, Capernaum,which art exalted unto heaven, shall be brought down to hell ; for if they mighty works which has been done in thee had been done in Sodom, it would have remained unto this day. Election..... Romans 9:15( -18) For He saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion We don't know We are commanded to go into all the world and preach the Gospel to every creature....Mark 16:15 One sows another reaps ....John 4 :37 You can shake the dust off your feet...but you can also keep praying for them There are many that seem hopeless , there have been many that others pray for, for years Don't give up ,there are many who do finally accept
Romans 10:13-14 For WHOSOEVER shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?and how shall they hear without a preacher ?
1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts : and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear 1 Peter 3:16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas, they speak evil of you, as evil doers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ
He does exist, I was into the New Age jazz doing tarot readings and Manifestation,meditation, my ex turned out to be a witch that tried to kill me. I've seen stuff its real, but its not from God, but from the other dude. Luckily God pulled me out of the situation or I was on my way to hell and deservingly so. Sometimes you are blind until you start dreaming about demons every night and your dog starts chasing them around the apartment. The other dude can also send people into your life to maybe tell you about Christ Consciousness or how special you are. Its so tricky really. Until you open the Bible and learn you are detestable infront of a Holy God ( not your sin, you yourself) because of the stuff you have practiced.
God bless you, you are a testimony to His greatness. I pray that our Lord Jesus uses you as an example, as a testimony, of His MIGHTY works. Please always remember who the Som sets free, is free indeed. John 8:36 36 So if the Son sets you free, you are truly free. And that you are a new creation through Christ Jesus, your old does not define you. 2 Corinthians 5:17 “17This means that anyone who belongs to Christ has become a new person. The old life is gone; a new life has begun!” The enemy no longer has grip over you, remain constant and consistent in God’s word, I know He is going to use your mightily. Praying for your brother. Jesus loves you. 🤍✝️
Yes, I agree with you Cliffe, and I think you're very wise.. However I am a white South African, and trying to be the best Christian that I can.. A lot of us white South Africans are doing the best we can down here to follow Jesus and serve him, despite receiving mass amounts of attacks and oppression from all sides.. Just be a bit careful, not sure how white South Africans are being portrayed out there, but we're not all terrible 🥺
Here’s the real issue if your worldview doesn’t square with reality shouldn’t you go back and question your worldview and look for a worldview that does square up with reality Like objective morals like objective meaning of life
@@bigtxsdude You pose some excellent questions. I do believe my world view does square up with reality, and here's why. I like Cliffe's content because he keeps atheists from being ignorant and inconsistent about their own worldview. On the topic of objective meaning of life, most atheists (like the one being interviewed) are unwilling to accept that their lives are meaningless, despite their atheist views. I, in contrast, accept the ultimate atheist conclusion: that my own life is meaningless, and the only purpose I have in life is the purpose I choose for myself. So I would argue my logic is consistent on the meaning of life. As for objective morality, I love that you asked that, and I think it's a fascinating question. The atheist conclusion must also be that no objective morality exists, and the question this begs is, as Cliffe asks, "Where, then, does morality come from? Who defines morality?" The answer is the winners of history. A tv series called "The Man in the High Castle" describes a world where the axis powers (Germany, Japan, and Italy) have won world war 2. On this version of earth, everyone wakes up and hails hitler as their rightful ruler. In this world, Jews are a plague that must be eradicated. And these are morally correct things to think. So how do we know that our morals are better than the seemingly twisted moral systems of this world we look at? The answer is, because we won. The axis powers were defeated, therefore their ethical systems did not live on to the present day. And you may say, "just because you lose a fight doesn't mean you are wrong". And I agree. I don't think their ethical system is any more right or wrong than ours is. But it is weaker. Their ethical system didn't survive into the next phase of history because it was weaker than the other systems. This is the first example of why I believe that societies, as a whole, undergo evolutionary processes that affect their moral systems. That is where morality comes from, and I'll give another example to make it more clear, because I know it’s a little confusing. The Aztec empire is an example of weak moral ideas. Their religion taught them that many must sacrifice themselves to the gods for the greater good of their civilization. But this is a weak Idea because while their population was wasting useful manpower, the christians who put a high value on life were taking over most of europe. The christians, having more manpower and as a result more technology, easily wiped out the Aztecs when they fought. The Christian god is no more valid than the gods the Aztecs worshipped, but the christians prevail today because their value of life created a stronger society than the Aztec value of sacrifice did. This even explains why religion pops up in the first place. In the agrarian era, when nobody knows how to work together, everyone is selfish, and little progress is made. However, a group of people bonded by a religion are given values that make them work together as a group, and over the years, as their group becomes more numerous, they outcompete and dominate those that continue to live without religious beliefs, who have less friends. So essentially, I believe that morals are created through centuries of societal evolution, and as time goes on, the morals that survive through time are the ones that serve to build a stronger society. If you see any flaws in my logic, please tell me. My beliefs are as nuanced as they are because I try to have people disprove me as often as possible, and when they succeed, I know I have work to do.
@@bigtxsdude You pose some excellent questions. I do believe my world view does square up with reality, and here's why. I like Cliffe's content because he keeps atheists from being ignorant and inconsistent about their own worldview. On the topic of objective meaning of life, most atheists (like the one being interviewed) are unwilling to accept that their lives are meaningless, despite their atheist views. I, in contrast, accept the ultimate atheist conclusion: that my own life is meaningless, and the only purpose I have in life is the purpose I choose for myself. So I would argue my logic is consistent on the meaning of life. As for objective morality, I love that you asked that, and I think it's a fascinating question. The atheist conclusion must also be that no objective morality exists, and the question this begs is, as Cliffe asks, "Where, then, does morality come from? Who defines morality?" The answer is the winners of history. A tv series called "The Man in the High Castle" describes a world where the axis powers (Germany, Japan, and Italy) have won world war 2. On this version of earth, everyone wakes up and hails hitler as their rightful ruler. In this world, Jews are a plague that must be eradicated. And these are morally correct things to think. So how do we know that our morals are better than the seemingly twisted moral systems of this world we look at? The answer is, because we won. The axis powers were defeated, therefore their ethical systems did not live on to the present day. And you may say, "just because you lose a fight doesn't mean you are wrong". And I agree. I don't think their ethical system is any more right or wrong than ours is. But it is weaker. Their ethical system didn't survive into the next phase of history because it was weaker than the other systems. This is the first example of why I believe that societies, as a whole, undergo evolutionary processes that affect their moral systems. That is where morality comes from, and I'll give another example to make it more clear, because I know it’s a little confusing. The Aztec empire is an example of weak moral ideas. Their religion taught them that many must sacrifice themselves to the gods for the greater good of their civilization. But this is a weak Idea because while their population was wasting useful manpower, the christians who put a high value on life were taking over most of europe. The christians, having more manpower and as a result more technology, easily wiped out the Aztecs when they fought. The Christian god is no more valid than the gods the Aztecs worshipped, but the christians prevail today because their value of life created a stronger society than the Aztec value of sacrifice did. This even explains why religion pops up in the first place. In the agrarian era, when nobody knows how to work together, everyone is selfish, and little progress is made. However, a group of people bonded by a religion are given values that make them work together as a group, and over the years, as their group becomes more numerous, they outcompete and dominate those that continue to live without religious beliefs, who have less friends. So essentially, I believe that morals are created through centuries of societal evolution, and as time goes on, the morals that survive through time are the ones that serve to build a strong society. If you see any flaws in my logic, please tell me. My beliefs are as nuanced as they are because I try to have people disprove me as often as possible, and when they succeed, I know I have work to do.
To those who claim my worldview is inconsistent, you pose some excellent questions. I believe my world view does square up with reality, and here's why. I like Cliffe's content because he keeps atheists from being ignorant and inconsistent about their own worldview. On the topic of objective meaning of life, most atheists (like the one being interviewed) are unwilling to accept that their lives are meaningless, despite their atheist views. I, in contrast, accept the ultimate atheist conclusion: that my own life is meaningless, and the only purpose I have in life is the purpose I choose for myself. So I would argue my logic is consistent on the meaning of life. As for objective morality, I love that you asked that, and I think it's a fascinating question. The atheist conclusion must also be that no objective morality exists, and the question this begs is, as Cliffe asks, "Where, then, does morality come from? Who defines morality?" The answer is the winners of history. A tv series called "The Man in the High Castle" describes a world where the axis powers (Germany, Japan, and Italy) have won world war 2. On this version of earth, everyone wakes up and hails hitler as their rightful ruler. In this world, Jews are a plague that must be eradicated. And these are morally correct things to think. So how do we know that our morals are better than the seemingly twisted moral systems of this world we look at? The answer is, because we won. The axis powers were defeated, therefore their ethical systems did not live on to the present day. And you may say, "just because you lose a fight doesn't mean you are wrong". And I agree. I don't think their ethical system is any more right or wrong than ours is. But it is weaker. Their ethical system didn't survive into the next phase of history because it was weaker than the other systems. This is the first example of why I believe that societies, as a whole, undergo evolutionary processes that affect their moral systems. That is where morality comes from, and I'll give another example to make it more clear, because I know it’s a little confusing. The Aztec empire is an example of weak moral ideas. Their religion taught them that many must sacrifice themselves to the gods for the greater good of their civilization. But this is a weak Idea because while their population was wasting useful manpower, the christians who put a high value on life were taking over most of europe. The christians, having more manpower and as a result more technology, easily wiped out the Aztecs when they fought. The Christian god is no more valid than the gods the Aztecs worshipped, but the christians prevail today because their value of life created a stronger society than the Aztec value of sacrifice did. This even explains why religion pops up in the first place. In the agrarian era, when nobody knows how to work together, everyone is selfish, and little progress is made. However, a group of people bonded by a religion are given values that make them work together as a group, and over the years, as their group becomes more numerous, they outcompete and dominate those that continue to live without religious beliefs, who have less friends. So essentially, I believe that morals are created through centuries of societal evolution, and as time goes on, the morals that survive through time are the ones that serve to build a strong society. If you see any flaws in my logic, please tell me. My beliefs are as nuanced as they are because I try to have people disprove me as often as possible, and when they succeed, I know I have work to do.
Religion and Atheism are the same thing..... A belief in nothingness! The bible(and every other ancient Mystical Manuscript) has been hijacked by the carnal minds/human minds ignorance of the belief in a life separate and apart from Omnipresence(God....Oneness), yet, if Spiritually Discerned as it's meant to be, shows us how to walk out of the appearance of matter, out of the shadow of the Acceptance of birth and death(Atheism), and into the Immortal State of Our Being that is Spirit/Immortality/Incorporeality/Consciousness As the Only Presence. The Bible reveals the Unreality of the Material Dream of the Mind, and the Reality of Spirit/God as the Only Presence, not a religious teaching!!! The Truth and Untruth are placed next to each other in the Bible to show us Immortal Spirit as Reality, and the Mental Distortion we call Finite Form that we Entertain as Reality.... What we believe we are experiencing as a mortal being is actually the Binding/Imprisoning of Spiritual Immortality as the Truth of the Activity of Our Consciousness into a Mortal and Material Sense of Awareneness. The message of the bible(and all true Spiritual teachings) is not for the timid, it is for those who are willing to walk the Earth in Proportion to their Receptivity of Spiritual Immortality as Jesus, Buddha, Lao Tzu, Shankara, and many others have(THE STRAIT GATE)! Through the Realization and Acceptance of Spirit as the Only Presence Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, and many others became Interpreters and Demonstrators(as you will ultimately be)for the language of the Realization of Spirit/God as the Only Presence. Thereby Demonstrating the Unreality of the Material World, Human Mind, and the 5 Senses. Everything of the Senses is Perishable because it is not of Spirit, and therefore, not a Reality. Everything of Spirit is Imperishable, and your Divine Infinite Being, that which Jesus called The Father Within, the Buddha called the Buddha Mind, and Lao Tzu called the Tao, is Immortal, Omnipresent Spirit. Jesus was saying what all Illumined beings said before and after him, which is: Realize your own Divine, Immortal Nature within, and it will lead you out of the Veiled Dream of Time and Space. Out of the Karmic Cycle of Birth and Death. Follow me I, the Spirit of your being across the Mystical Ocean of Time where you don't walk in the world of matter, form, physicality, iniquity, mortality..... The Immortal Spirit(aka Christ, just a name used to identify a State of Consciousness) we are walks in the Kingdom of Heaven right here, where no mortal being or carnal mind can reach it!! The Christ we are is Untouchable, and only sees that which is the Kingdom of Spirit/God!! Where everything appears to be, only Spirit/God is.... The Cornerstone of the Christ(God/Spiritual Consciousness Realized)Teaching is that Spirit/God is the Only Presence, not to worship Jesus the illusory form that is nothing and can do nothing of itself....(with Spirit being the only Presence, to worship anything of an illusory material nature, such as a human form, is to worship a graven image, as all matter is a graven image). GOD/SPIRIT IS OMNIPRESENT! (God/Spirit is the Only Presence) Therefore, to Be Reborn is to Overcome the Belief of a Human Birth, and Accept Spirit as the Only Presence! What is not of Spirit is not a reality. Every Temptation of this World is Meaningless when you know the Truth of Your Immortal Christ/God/Spiritual Being!! The Matter/Error/Evil is not there, ONLY THE TEMPTATION TO ACCEPT IT AS REALITY IS!! This doesn't mean you can't experience the things of this world, it simply means to keep yourself from believing any of it is real! Think of it as an interactive movie in which you are able to Impersonalize it and just enjoy the experience as a Spiritually Divine Being! Peace Be Unto You!!
MANY Unbelievers are gonna have a Rude Awakening Upon the day of the return of The Son Of Man... When EVERY Knee Will Bow And EVERY Tongue Will Confess That JESUS Christ (Yeshua) The Messiah Is LORD!
How many times do jesus need to come to earth to fix things? For a an all powerlfull god it's really strange to me that the first time was so unsuccessful that people think he needs to come back.
@@bibleburner8426 LMAO! 😂 Yeah, You Keep Sleeping! 😅 You will have your Rude Awakening upon the day of the return of The Son Of Man... When EVERY Knee Will Bow And EVERY Tongue Will Confess That JESUS Christ (Yeshua) The Messiah Is LORD!
My parents put it to me like this, they told me that I am only good because there was a standard put in place by them, when I stepped out of line my parents corrected it, sometimes that correction was quite harsh but it taught me a lesson that will never forget. That standard was taught to them by their parents and so on. But when and where and why and who and what started that standard. My parents told me that God started it. Maybe that’s true maybe that not but I understand both sides of the arguement.
We are flawed because we sin. God is perfection in His Glory ,Mercy, Love ,and Grace! Please don't try to out think God. He created us and loves us. Accept His plan for your life today. ❤
Creator or not if you have a brain and eyes there's something beautiful and meaningful in it. And it's obvious making story's is a decent bit of our meaning,and too be what you your sould deep down wants to do or be. This planet regardless is a learning ground and story maker. And it's all for a higher purpose we'll never understand in our flesh vessels. And people who can't grasp that we can't know it all lose faith or get upset. We'll never truly know,and that's okay. Live and enjoy existence
@@landen99 Pretty easy (and convenient) to deem the video an "outstanding success" when your only metric is the assumption that 1) the issue raised didn't significantly detract from the video, and 2) there were no other issues besides the one raised
Dude, this is a snippet...if you wanna watch the original without music go to AskClyffe, his channel... This is beautifully done, and the musical accompaniment is adding to it, like music does to lyrics, makes them hit harder. I really don't know what you're on about, but it does give it a level of somberness and sweetness...
@williamgreenfield9991 he does consider what they say. I watched a video about a woman that said, "what if this is all a game to God? What if they ate up there laughing?'he said, "maybe your right" but then proceeded to tell her why he doesn't believe that.
"Your god sounds like a fantasy." "Maybe you're right, to say that my God is a fantasy I use so that I don't--" "No, I said nothing about your motive."
7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.
@@DontOpenThisChannel do you poop? Do you piss? Does your body decompose when you die? Cremate into ash? Where does your body go? Never mind soul as there isn’t an empirical evidence to show too.
@@DontOpenThisChannelThe universe is empirical evidence of nature. If it didn't exist we simply wouldn't be here to experience it. Pretty much every isolated civilisation on earth has made up its own myths and legends regarding origins and gods. It is human nature to make things up when we don't have all the facts and christianity, judaism and islam are no different. All the evidence shows that we exist in a natural universe and not a magical one. 😊
I have died and I can tell you that heaven is real and it was angels who guided and guarded me back to put me back in my body. It's REAL and so is hell girl. Believe that.
@TheTruthKiwi oh no. I am in no way saying anything like that. I am speaking on my experience. I LOVE Jesus, and my experience was one of forgiveness, guidance, and love. I just want people to know that there is more to us and our lives than we know and there is nothing worse than dying in sin and regret. Get right with Jesus and stay right.
Nope, that is the worst apologist argument ever. The most rational and reasonable position is to withhold belief until sufficient evidence is found and proven right?
@@TheTruthKiwi That wasn't al apologist argument at all, but a valid point. Mostly we believe what we want to believe. As for real arguments, "sufficient evidence" is what is at issue here. There are different kinds of evidence, and different standards for what constitutes "proof", depending on the type of evidence involved. And some people have VERY different standards for what constitutes "sufficient evidence". Modern flat earth arguments, the "Space is Fake" arguments, and the "The Apollo Moon Landings Are fake" arguments all point to some strange forms of "sufficiency" when it comes to "proving things right". Can you "prove beyond all shadow of doubt" that George Washington was the first president of the United States, for example? In that case the best we can do is look into the various historical records and surviving documents. Was GW even a real person, or a made-up fable designed to create a certain national narrative? No eye witnesses survive, but we can draw from multiple sources, and put together a historical narrative, such that we can reasonably conclude that GW was indeed the first president. When it comes to much of the Bible, the evidence is of very much the same kind, and so now, Mr. Truth Kiwi, how far are you willing to dig? And do you WANT to dig for evidence at all (which was my original point)? Because if you go all-in, trying to "prove that it can't be proven" you are likely to end up like Lee Strobel, a very reluctant (at first) convert! Check out his story. So it comes down to your personal incentive structure, which, again, was my original point. If you REALLY want to get to the bottom of the issue, so to speak, there is a LOT to discover (and more physical and historical evidence is being unearthed all the time [i.e. the "rocks are crying out"]), but it will require commitment and work. It's far easier, and often fun, to sit back and mock, but in that case you're missing out on tons of fascinating new information.
The logical conclusion of atheism is truly bleak. If there's no Creator, there's NO purpose to anything. It's really too bad so many people fell for the globe lie. When people know it's flat they naturally conclude there's a creator that placed us here. Maranatha!
Cliff referring to other believers JUST LIKE HIM so convinced of their moral superiority BASED ON GOD they would sacrifice the lives of many. And STILL convinced morality comes from God. Mind blowing reasoning. Accepting 180 degree different outcomes from same reasoning and defending that with 'but I know what is right and they do not' like they do. With a book of God in their hands. Fairytales. Morality is in your heart, your genes and imorinted after millions of years of trial and error. Which for instance learns us that stealing will not work very well in the long run. People don't like it. Thus will do something against it. And indeed there IS NO meaning to live. Not the slightest. We are there so better make the best of it and in that we we indeed can create purpose if we want. For ourselves, for our group.
Yup, can't argue with that. It's sickening seeing this guy going around misleading and indoctrinating young minds. We exist in a natural universe, not a magical one.
He is convinced that we are not the product of a big bang. That’s all. Take a look at the human eye and then contemplate how intricate it is designed. Just like the rest of the world around us is. Dig deeper. Critical thinking skills.
Testament means Covenant or agreement only parts of the old apply we know which by adhering to the new make sure if somebody comes to you and says there's nothing worth fighting for that you do not believe before they say that doesn't require a fight and if somebody says nothing's better than mashed potatoes that if they like to play empty rather than mashed potatoes or they like mashed potatoes then all other options that you understood what they meant when they said it. If you said in the 1950s it's chill that means it's cold outside in the it means a mood. James 3:16 for where envy and strife is there's confusion in every kind of evil work. every sin after the New Testament always requires a little bit of uncaring selfishness out that a God or to your fellow people and the Gratitude you're willing to offer to either will give me tools to predict how your behave note when somebody asks for forgiveness truly sincerely in the heart I know they wish they did nothing wrong in the past and I can set a stage before you get to a play.
Cliff is confused on a couple of things here. Lets look at the first problem. I only got halfway too. It's an almost nihilistic argument to say that you have no meaning without a magical man in the sky. It's actually quite sad if you believe this. I have 2 daughters that are everything to me. You're telling me that they have no meaning? You're telling me that it's meaningless because it only matters to me? That is the argument. You're saying that the only way your life can have meaning is when there is a magical being looking down on us. That's an unsupported and somewhat depressing argument.
@NewyorkRicanSoulPodcast the big bang is physics. Which has nothing to do with Atheism. Millions of Christians support the big bang. So don't start there..... And seriously? You don't understand the meaning and value of life without religion? You don't understand morality without a violent book?
Before the bible and Jesus were ever known there was human conscience, which is innate. No one needs religion or religious texts because anything that violates conscience should be ignored. Anything in congruence with conscience is already informed by conscience. In peaceful societies never aware of the great religions, which exist even to this day, the degree of their interpersonal success is directly related to how closely conscience is followed. Scientists have studied these cultures' demographics for generations, documenting their success compared to modern first world societies of scale. While not perfect, the demographic results are better than nearly every metric of those measured in modern first world societies.
I respect th guy but this I don't agree with. She's not sitting her saying that she thinks life is meaningless. He's assuming. But this whole thing of without God there is no reason to be moral, I have always disagreed with. For that to be true then anyone that's not Christian or Atheist would ALL be absolutely immoral monster. Which just isn't the case. Alot of why one acts morally is out o the awful feeling we get when we do something we know in our hearts to be wrong. That feeling is independent of the belief in any type of God.
Very good ideas but if you dig a little deeper you will find the meaning and purpose of life when you read the Bible. It’s an incredible read. It is like looking into a mirror and seeing you from the inside but also the outside as God sees us. Can I suggest you start with the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John? You will see that the Old Testament predicted Jesus’s coming and death to atone for our sins. God knows in a personal level what loss is. He gave us his only son.
I have left many comments on this section and they all get deleted. The owner of this channel is stealing my right to argue with people and i find it immoral personally. I would like to debete with people who have different view of mine even if we disagree with each other.
So have I and I wouldn't be surprised if they all disappear. To be fair the UA-cam comments platform is glitchy af but I'm sure the channel owners go through and delete all the rational comments as well.
This is my first time seeing your comment. So your issue had nothing to do with me. I hope that you get the kind of arguments that you’re looking for but as for me personally I’m not trying to argue about anything. Cliffe is merely reasoning with people to get them to think critically about their world view. He is not pushing religion or Christianity. Just Jesus. He also encourages everyone to do their own research. Simple.
@TheTruthKiwi like a big bang? Everything came from nothing? Order came from chaos? Life came from non life? We all came from single cell organisms? Evolution? Yea, you definitely need more faith to be an atheist than to believe in intelligent design
@@bradalanmusic808 How do you know that the universe isn't in an eternal natural loop? Perhaps as the last universe expanded and reached maximum entropy it then collapsed into a singularity and when the singularity reached maximum density it expanded again into our, and the cycle continues.. That is infinitely more likely than an omnipotent entity from another dimension magically poofing everything into existence from nothing. The bottom line is that we just don't know so no absolute claims can be made. If you claim to know exactly what existed or occurred prior to the Big Bang, or the Planck Epoch to be more specific, then you are deluded or are being dishonest, probably both.
@@bradalanmusic808 How do you know that the universe isn't in an eternal natural loop? Perhaps as the last universe expanded and reached maximum entropy it then collapsed into a singularity and when the singularity reached maximum density it expanded again into our universe, and the cycle continues... The bottom line is that we just don't know so no absolute claims can be made. If you claim to know exactly what existed or occurred prior to the Big Bang, or the Planck Epoch to be more specific, then you are deluded or are being dishonest, probably both.
@@bradalanmusic808 How do you know that the universe isn't in an eternal natural loop? Perhaps as the last universe expanded and reached maximum entropy it then collapsed into a singularity and when the singularity reached maximum density it expanded again into our universe, and the cycle continues... The bottom line is that we just don't know so no absolute claims can be made. If you claim to know exactly what existed or occurred prior to the Big Bang, or the Planck Epoch to be more specific, then you are deluded or are being dishonest, probably both.
A painting and a building are made out of natural materials right? How exactly do you know that matter and energy hasn't always existed in some natural form?
She shows him for what he is. Atheists actually have more meaning in their life, probably. They appreciate this one life more, as they wouldn't just wait around in subservience for the second life that doesn't exist.
You nailed it. Life is much more precious if you think that this is it. Anyone who thinks this life is just brief prelude to eternity can't possibly love THIS WORLD like I do.
Those who love their life will lose it. Those who give up their life for God will inherit eternal life. Life is a vapor. Find out its meaning and your purpose in it and you will find a peace that is beyond human understanding. I pray that you seek greater understanding of God and of yourself. It’s in the Bible if you read it.
@@NewyorkRicanSoulPodcast Don't waste your only life, yearning for some utopian fictional afterlife, I urge you. Your chosen god in your scripture committed multiple genocides and creates people sinful so he can punish them. He sounds truly awful, by any human standards of the past, let alone our more evolved and empathetic times.
Well that's not true because i was raised in an addict family and I thought that's what life was all about drugs and my conscience never defined it as wrong because I thought it was right
@@ChristopherMack-h5d sorry to hear of your unfortunate environment. But it must be noted that not everyone has a conscience. And that's a huge problem in every society. Psychologists define such individuals as psychopathic or sociopathic. They represent less than one percent of the population and gravitate towards positions of power control and authority, we then elect as politicians. But conscience is not instinct. It does not force, but only guides unharmful behavior. conscience can be over written by environment. Exposure to drugs is an example of environmental conditioning that can overwrite the promptings of conscience. Abuse and abandonment are others. The vast majority are not so afflicted and therefore, have retained a sufficient sensitivity to conscience, otherwise everyone would be psychopaths. This allows for a more consistent degree of constructive interpersonal outcomes. So what we as a society have a responsibility to do is teach people, especially our youths, to adhere to principles of behavior that do not over write or desensitize conscience but increase its sensitivity. The whole concept of universal law is an outflow of adherence to conscience and when followed, mirror the teachings of yeshua who took that innate adherence to a whole new metaphysical level called love, which is a natural evolution of conscience.
@@TheTruthKiwi yeah after training my mind to think differently your conscience goes off of feelings if it feels right most of the time your conscience is going to tell you that its right whether its wrong or right
Sigh....U need to Fantasize of something to be a good guy Father almost kill his son because of God. Is that Justice? Huh? God already knew how much he love god but still test him anyway.
@@TheTruthKiwiHe created the universe, if nothing creates the universe it cannot be created, big bang says int he beginning was nothing then BOOM. There has to be something outside the material world for that boom to happen, it cannot be cause by nothing, that's impossible.
@@dreaddshorts How do you know that matter and energy hasn't always existed in some natural form? How do you know that the universe isn't in an eternal natural loop? Perhaps as the last universe expanded and reached maximum entropy it then collapsed into a singularity and when the singularity reached maximum density it expanded again into our universe, and the cycle continues... Isn't that infinitely more likely than an omnipotent entity from another dimension magically poofing everything into existence from nothing? The bottom line is that we just don't know so no absolute claims can be made. From what we know and have observed though, we exist in a natural universe and not a magical one.
I find this line of reasoning to be seriously flawed and I wish believers would stop using it. There is no reason why millions of years of evolution couldn't instill in humans the ideas of morality and justice. These are beneficial to communities and those who didn't have a sense of morality and justice would be at an evolutionary disadvantage. An atheist and a theistic evolutionist could agree on this as fact.
@@TheTruthKiwiI'm not sure why this line of reasoning continues to be used. I've seen it over the years and it is so easily shown to be flawed. I don't make any judgement as to why it is used; I just point out the flaw when I see it.
@@mikesarno7973 They have use flawed reasoning otherwise they'd have to use known facts and known facts would mean bye bye to the magical entity in another dimension. It is also a psychological manipulation technique to make the other person feel meaningless and guilty for not having a moral "foundation". It's a very dishonest and dirty tactic by apologists.
You’ll find the Bible accurately describing the human condition. Reading it will be like looking in a mirror. Before I read it I was doing pretty good according to atheist standards. Got lots of money and plenty of pleasure but as the Bible says it’s all like a vapor. Here today and gone tomorrow. Cliffe is causing those people to think critically about their lives and its meaning.
This is what I don’t like about Cliffe’s interaction with pagan unbelievers, is that he gives their judgement about God too much credence, as if their view of God is valid-when it’s NOT. Cliffe, tell them they’re on their way to Hell because they broke God’s laws and if they never reconcile with Him through the life and death of the Son (Jesus Christ), then it will be too late for repentance once their soul leaves their bodies.
I’m just saying telling people that they’re stupid for not believing something you can’t prove to them isn’t going to convert anyone to your religion. Even if you are right, we don’t necessarily believe you, and getting us to understand your way of thinking when we disagree takes patience and logical analysis, which is exactly what Cliffe is trying to do. If your goal is to make sure no atheists ever accept god, then telling them they’re stupid without displaying any reasoning is a great idea
@@Blarvee515 The Holy Bible calls them: "Fools", because they reject the obvious. BigBang idea is dumb. You don't get ORDER, COMPLEXITY, and BEAUTY out of chaos. It doesn't happen. And Christians don't have to prove anything. It's the atheists that have to prove their dumb claim that there is no god. We, nor God is on trial. It is you fools that are, and God will hold each person accountable on Judgement Day. Culture at this moment (as well as many Christians) have it backwards. If you want to go to Hell, that's your deal. God will allow it. But I hope you humble your heart and consider taking the focus off your sins (self-pleasing lifestyle) and put it on Jesus. Listen to his words. Have you ever read the Holy Bible? Most critiques of the Bible never read it.
Sorry cliff , but flying planes into buildings does not prove your subjective opinion is correct that the deity you subjectively worship has objective morality
That student was a good sport but she lacked the ability to push back. The issue with Cliff's logic is that at the root of his rationale, he suggests that a God must be the root. Nothing that he spoke to validates the existence of a God.
Let’s hear you try to validate a Big Bang. The order of the world. The sky’s the moon the stars. Trees birds dogs plants people all intelligently designed. It’s impossible for something to come out of nothing. That points to an intelligent creator and designer. He is outside of time. He also sustains us in his omnipotence. Read his book (The Bible)and take a look at the history behind the world we know.
@@NewyorkRicanSoulPodcast I don't have to try and validate it - science is at least trying, religious people would rather just make shit up. You sure as hell don't place your hands in God when you drive your car.....you trust in the safety systems of your vehicle. Anyway, back to the actual topic - just because he stumped a group of students doesn't make him right, it just means that he knows how to choose his prey.
@@NewyorkRicanSoulPodcast Always with the tired argument from ignorance and incredulity. "I don't know how the universe could've originated naturally therefore gods"
He actually says that the WTC bombers thought they were doing something good, as an argument against atheism! Lol. They were religious, and did that utterly awful thing precisely because of a god belief. He undermines his whole argument. She is calm and honest. He is uptight and grifting using strawman arguments.
The human condition is wretched. Hitler wasn’t religious. Neither was Charles Manson. He is causing people to think critically about what their purpose in this life is. It isn’t some constantly evolving moral process that occurred after a Big Bang, that’s for sure.
@@NewyorkRicanSoulPodcast The current evidence points exactly to that. I realise your cognitive dissonance and desire for a god, outweighs evidence in your mind. But there are facts out there if you look truthfully.
Problem 2. Morality can't exist without a magical being. Why not? Humans have defined morality based on what they overwhelmingly agree that they want. "who defines morality if there is no god?" - Humans enviously. Theists really struggle with this. If the answer is more complicated than 'god says so' they unravel.
So if humans define what is moral, then what Hitler did was moral based on your definition. The vast majority of the people in Germany voted for him and supported what he did. They waved flags and hailed him. They thought what they were doing was in the best interest of their country. If humans just "decide" what is moral by majority rule, then morality is not fixed and it can change based on the whims of humans. And without God, why does being moral even matter. Wouldn't natural selection and survival of the fittest make more sense? Everything in life is temporary. Why should morality matter in a world without God? What purpose does morality serve?
It's "sickening" how Cliffe in the first 30 seconds characterizes "life" as Meaningless. That may have been his motivation for becoming a Christian, but that meaninglessness applies ONLY to HIM. I almost feel sorry for anyone that can't find meaning in life for they are the TRULY Lost. Because there is meaning in every aspect of life. It is a desertion of life to seek meaning in the supernatural. Secondly, he describes Atheism as meaningless and that's either ignorance or a lie. He may have chosen a worldview in which he fails to comprehend how being firmly grounded in the REAL natural universe can bring meaning to life but that narrow and baseless notion is his own failure and need not be anyone else's failure. There can be [personal] meaning in the wondrousness of the external natural world, in human relationships, the deeds we perform as a member of a social groups, in the responsibility we accept to sustain the natural habitat we evolved in for the future of our species, in the good things we do for others, in our personal sacrifices we accept for the welfare of others, in the physical comfort we can give others, even acknowledging the "gift" of having been born such that we can experience "life". Don't accept Cliffe's notion of life being meaningless. YOU make life meaningful. And if you fail to do so blame YOURSELF not a godless world.
Human beings define morality, just like human beings. Look at characters from books and then use their subjective opinions to claim that character from a book has objective morality in my subjective opinion.
Instead of debating with a kid, why not take someone your size like Aaron Ra? We are all born with a very strong sense of right and wrong. Our power of reason can also define goodness and morality not necessarily reliant on a higher being. Pope Francis told atheists that as long as they dont lose their conscience they will also become successful in the afterlife, go and read that. Tell me, with the extreme hypocrisy, corruption and injustice that pervades the religious world, where is the goodness and morality? And where does evil come from?
@@TheTruthKiwi I believe such discussions should take place between leading men of intellect between different ideologies while young people watch and decide for themselves. This is utter self ridicule.
First of all Cliffe is not speaking about religion or Christianity. He is speaking about Jesus. Secondly the Bible is more trustworthy than any individual or intellectual. Try reading it and you just might find the answers to your questions.
@@tomlord4469 No. He compared everything to HIS religion. He said the universe is amoral, w/o religion. Not all religions teach the same morals and not all religions preach nonviolence. I have values and morals, but do not believe in the existence of a (or any) deity. The Aztecs killed people as sacrifices to their God Quetzalcoatl . So, sacrificing children is moral? Or, it's not because YOUR God says otherwise?
@@tomb816 that’s not what he said at all. Your example is reinforcing what he said. He said if there is no God, we definitely have morals regardless, but they can always change depending on the person and society and it’s impossible for you and me to live life as if morals can always change.
@@tomb816 you don’t have objective morals or values. If there is no moral law giver, there are no objective morals. So if morality is relative you’re going to have to accept the holocaust and feeding the homeless are equally valid actions
He absolutely did. In fact in the very beginning he used her argument against her. He quoted her when he said "you make up God because you're scared to face the meaninglessness of life". By that statement alone, she was admitting that if this life is all there is, that means there is no meaning. If there's no meaning that means there is no such thing as morality. If there is no morality, we are all free to do as we wish. In reality, she's scared of that conclusion because when he pushed back then all of a sudden her tune changed and she said "well I believe my life has meaning" implying that it's not meaningless when it's still, in fact meaningless. He drove the point home when he said that the meaning she gives her life is to help people and expand her mind but the meaning someone else gives is to expand their mind and steal money. Both are equally legitimate. But she fought against that obvious conclusion because she's scared of the consequences of her own worldview because she's chasing feelings and not facts. This was absolutely not one-sided.
By her facial expressions, she knew she was making excuses.
No, she was just thinking how to refute his preachy apologist nonsense.
Excuses... As in explaining why there is absolutely no physical evidence for a magic entity that has no consideration for anything but itself, nor any actual moral base. The declarations are right there in your bible.
Please pray for protection for this street preacher. He not only is well versed, he’s able to remain calm and connect with the crowd.
Praying
Prayers up to you and your family. 🙏
I liked that line that was like “there can only be this morality if there is some mind prior to the human mind that gave us that understanding.” Really good.
There WERE minds that came before and from those minds came "morality". You simply are just ignoring the minds that preceded your mind. Of all the religious claims, assertions and assumptions one rarely hears about the REAL origin of morals. It's quite simple really. All one has to do is LOOK. When you were a child, where did your values come from? Did you honestly get messages in your head out of the clear blue sky? Every single idea you incorporated into your consciousness came from SOMEONE ELSE, like your parents, friends, extended family, etc. To sum that all up your values were inculcated in to your psyche by your environment or in other words SOCIETY and all the "society" that came before you.
Society sets expectations of civility, limitations on individual behavior, establishes laws and imposes punishments. And in case you haven't noticed, each culture or nation sets their own standards. That makes values/morals relativistic debunking the idea there is such a thing as "objective" morality.
Unfortunately, it appears for most people though they prefer the "easy way out" of a dilemma. It's easier and more convenient to jump to a conclusion of god than to accept the realities of the empirical/natural world you were born into. I suspect were you to take that to your grave, will you REALLY find out the truth?
Well, I wouldn't say it's exactly the 'easier' way. The point is that if a society created morality under the influence of an evolutionary drive for survival, it is statistically impossible that it could survive on its own at the dawn of its creation. Also, if that's your claim, then absolutely nothing can be attributed to me if I go to rob a bank now, say, I don't know if you understand me... The point is that if moral laws are the work of human minds they would find a way to function harmoniously in the community for the sake of survival, then we reduce moral laws to simple applications of survival strategies, and in that case, true morality in its essence does not exist, which leaves us with the conclusion that at the end of the day you cannot blame anyone for anything, because anyone can to propose a counterargument and to say that his view of morality is different and that's it.
@@Am3deoAvogadro That shows a certain shallowness to your worldview. Contrary to your [false] conclusion that "it is statistically impossible that it could survive on its own at the dawn of its creation." you have NO evidence whatsoever to support such a claim. In fact... paleontologists, anthropologists and sociologists agree that were it not for SOCIAL COOPERATION, homo sapiens might not have survived this long. Even IF we were to start with the Adam and Eve, those mythical created creatures and no one else, those two would've found it necessary to establish certain behavioral guidelines, division of labor, expectations from the other person, etc. in order to attain and sustain civility. And those guidelines would've been compelled by nothing else but the NATURAL order of things. For example, who was going to go hunting for meat? The obvious choice would be "man" with man's bigger bone and muscle inheritance. Women obviously for child bearing. Etc. So, the evidence IS the beginnings of civilized human social behavior came from People, not some ghost in the sky. What's really troubling though, is the propensity of grown adults to choose an empty theology to live by and not give society [other people] any credit for maintaining order.
Like people invented it. If there is another dimension that has never heard of our version of a god, morality still exists. We only made up the word for it. How moral is sneaking into someone else's home, stealing everything they have worked their life for, then ending their life as they sleep, and then calling it a gift from god. How moral is building a church, forcing your dirt poor followers to make it out of the finest gold and jewels, and then forbid the sick, fatherless children, or those born with defects from entering? Did you sanctify your first child to god like it says you must, including all the firstborn of your livestock as well? Ya, that is some serious morality there....
Not good. Morality does not need "God" to exist.
The question “who defines morality” is a such a good question!
It's a simple answer, We do.
@@BobaDavis Then explain to me who defines morality for the animals?
@samuelnoklang3724 Who said they processed morality - they have a societal function, nothing more. A lioness when having to try and enter into another pride and she has young, what do you think they have to do with the young of the previous male? When wolves/dogs have social packs, why is it that only one male has access to the females when there are enough females to pair off with the other males? Does a snake have morals?.... Do you think that a python as a pet allies itself with the owner because it bonds with them, or is it because the human serves a reliable food source?
You didn't think about that question before you asked it.
@BobaDavis Exactly my friend! This is why you can't define morality yourself as you think! We as humans are made in the image of God according to the Bible, that's the reason why we are instilled within us since the time we are created the morality you think you're able to define on your own which other animals cannot. Jesus Christ is real, do not blaspheme against your Creator!!
@samuelnoklang3724 Negative, we have always determined our own sense of morality, we do it everyday. There are no values instilled in us since our birth - go to China and tell them that... Go to Saudi Arabia and tell them this, lol.
A christian response.
1. If God doesn't exist, the universe wouldn't be immoral because that presupposes a standard of morality.
2. God did not create morality, God is the standard. God's nature is the perfect good or The Good and any act that deviates from The Good is what is evil.
So God created morality
If God created morality then that means morality is relative to God. Which means God can make good evil, and evil good. So that wouldn't make it objective.
@@BerishaFatianNo, it rather means that the God's standard of morality is objective, and If you think per se that something that God thinks is good is in your opinion wrong, then you're wrong.
@@maxleichner9447How so? By your supposition, the creator of morality is still your creator too! Morality will still complement what is created after.
Morality is an inherent characteristic of GOD. GOD is the same yesterday , today and forever, unlike man Who's morality is wholly subjective on their whims.
Your god say taht it's not moraly wrong to own slaves for life, so i guess that the americam revolution to free slaves is the biggest act against the will of god and therefore the biggest act of evil humans have done.
Morality comes from God who is far greater than man. His holiness and righteousness is what gives Him power. It gives God the ability to rule the universe, earth you me and everyone else. Man doesn’t have that power because man is unrighteous. But God through Jesus Christ allows us to tap into His power.” But God demonstrates His own love towards us in that while we were still sinners Christ died for us.” Roman’s 5:8.
That is an assertion and the which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
The "morals" of the Bible are horrifying.
Is slavery immoral
@vitast2000 you just proved you don't know what you're talking about.
@dperkins01 there's more evidence for God, than there is for the big bang theory.
When i was an atheist i asked a religious person "what if you die and it turns out that God doesn't exist?" And he calmly said "what if you die and it turns out he does exist?"
That was the moment i had to rethink about my relationship with God.
What if you die and realise you bought into a lie. It's never wise to think you have "found it" or are even on the right path. It's the most dangerous position to be in. I get very suspicious when there are masses going one way and especially when they say "here it is" or "this is how you find it".
@@Jwfghb642CS Lewis said
Christianity if wrong is of no importance…..if true it is of the most importance…. One thing it can not be is moderately important…..
Then again there is the thought of living simply for ourselves rather than experiencing the joy and glory of being Christ which is so much more than being true to our selves.
absolutely ! cuz in this point there is no return!
@@bradleygonzalez1160 CS Lewis was wrong if he viewed a belief in christianity "if wrong" would be of no importance. Because if it is wrong and people still believe it and what it claims about the universe, then those who believe are believing an untrue claim. That might not necessarily be a problem but what happens is people rely upon their beliefs when making "secular" [worldly] decisions. And if their ideas about the real world are wrong then they're going to make wrong decisions that effect other people.
He's is a very gifted and wise man.
Yes, believing old superstition and woo woo is very wise. Pretty much every isolated civilisation on earth has made up its own myths and legends regarding origins and gods. It is human nature to make stuff up when we don't have all the facts and christianity, judaism and islam are no different.
@TheTruthKiwi Not all those paths are wise. That's why those pseudo-religions did not span the globe as Christianity has. Many false religions does not mean the teachings of Christianity are false as well. I implore you to pursue the Bible. It will change your life. God bless!
@@zacharylewis7702 Just because the strongest culture at the time believed christianity and spread it around the world that doesn't mean it is true. I've read the bible and it is clearly a rule-book and possible man-made explanation of the universe. In the 2000+ years since it was written it has been found to be most likely wrong.
@@zacharylewis7702 Just because the strongest culture at the time spread christianity around the world doesn't make it true. I've read the bible and it is obviously a man made law book and possible explanation of the universe. In the 2000+ years since it was written we have found that it is most likely to be false.
If there is no God and morality from God, then nobody can claim what Hitler and his National Socialists did was wrong.
They believed what they did was correct and moral to their views.
We can only righteously judge them for being not only immoral but depraved because we have the right moral standard through God, his words, design and his creation of mankind.
Peoples in thailand almost alll immoral peoples right? They are not a christian country.
_" then nobody can claim what Hitler and his National Socialists did was wrong."_
Humans can because humans have defined what they consider to be good and bad.
_"They believed what they did was correct and moral to their views."_
...and it contradicts thousands of years of morality and ethics. It contradicts what humans overwhelmingly agree on.
Slavery and genocide is something that the god of the bible had no problem with.
Do you really belive that atheist think hitler did good in ww2? Btw, the main kampf is full of rethotic that use god to prove the rightness of their action. So the morality of the nazi is moral for them because god said so. Not very different from your point of view it seems to me.
I can claim he’s wrong, just not on some fundamental principle of the universe or whatnot. Not liking that is due to people giving themselves a privilege, I can talk about what is objectively good, they don’t have a right to.
We most likely naturally developed morals and ethics as instincts as we evolved as a species. No gods needed or shown to be involved whatsoever. 😊
Very good. Could see exact second her brain click that her religious atheism is flawed
Atheism is not a religion. I was raised a Roman Catholic, which is a religion based solely on faith, Atheism, at least for me, is a lack of belief in any gods due to a lack of evidence for their existence. When any god provides me with evidence of their existence then I will change my mind.
I do believe that if a person says you can have object meaning without god, that is a flawed idea. The thing is, religion has this same flaw. There is no objective meaning to life even with a god. Sure, he can tell you what he wants you to do based off his own morals and values (which makes them subjective even if they are supposedly never changing) with your life and you follow it, that’s still you subjectively deciding that is the purpose of your life by agreeing to follow that want. A non religious belief system can also tell you what the meaning of your life is (we all have a moral duty to make the world a better place for example) and it’s up to you to agree with this or not.
@@_SloppyhamUnfortunately for your reply, there is a rule that all should follow: "believe in the guy that rose from the dead, not the guy who stayed dead or will stay dead." The person who believes in Jesus, who conquered death, will have eternal life. If that isn't clearly defining a meaningful life, then who are you to decide what is meaningful outside of Jesus? You're just a dead man walking awaiting the judgment. A man who receives God's goodness every waking moment and doesn't thank Him. A man who receives God's goodness and breaks His divine law by not loving his neighbor selflessly, even when that love is not reciprocated. Why would I want to side with someone like you who is that hopeless person I described? Jesus said, "he who seeks his life will lose it and he who loses his life for My sake shall find it." He also says, "what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul?" May God open your eyes.
@@chrismount5069 Amen 🙏
@@chrismount5069 then your original point is the atheist flaw is not about objective meaning, which is what the video was about, it’s that atheism is false in its claim. Which of course we will agree to disagree about. I will say, power (being all powerful and being able to come back alive) means nothing for a moral argument. Unless you subscribe to “might makes right” in which case that’s all that matters.
You completely changed the topic from what I originally what referring to.
John 6:44 CSB
[44] No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up on the last day.
Its more than just a logical argument......it's a belief that cant attain unless we're drawn by God to be conformed to the image of his son (Romans 8:29)
God bless you all and may we endure till the end (Mathew 24:13)
We see examples of BOTH
God' s election AND free will
Perhaps ,because without faith , it is impossible to please God( Hebrews 11:6 )and there are many who won't believe ....
" Even if a man were raised from the dead"( Luke 16:31)
Free will....
2 Peter 3:9.... God is not willingly that any should perish...
John 3:16.... For God so loved the world that WHOSOEVER believeth.....
Both...
Matthew 23:37 (free will)
(Jesus wept over Jerusalem and said)
" How often I would have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings,
AND YOU WERE NOT WILLING! "
Matthew 23:38-39 ( election / God choosing)
Behold, your house is left to you desolate. For I say unto you, ye shall not seen me henceforth, to ye shall say, Blessed is He that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Seeing that He is Omniscient
Knowing the end from the beginning....
The Lamb of God , slain BEFORE the foundation of them world
Revelation 13:8 + 1 Peter 1:19-20
Hebrew 12:2
Matthew 11:23
And thou, Capernaum,which art exalted unto heaven, shall be brought down to hell ; for if they mighty works which has been done in thee had been done in Sodom, it would have remained unto this day.
Election.....
Romans 9:15( -18)
For He saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion
We don't know
We are commanded to go into all the world and preach the Gospel to every creature....Mark 16:15
One sows another reaps ....John 4 :37
You can shake the dust off your feet...but you can also keep praying for them
There are many that seem hopeless , there have been many that others pray for, for years
Don't give up ,there are many who do finally accept
Romans 10:13-14
For WHOSOEVER shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved
How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?and how shall they hear without a preacher ?
1 Peter 3:15
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts : and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh
you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear
1 Peter 3:16
Having a good conscience; that, whereas, they speak evil of you, as evil doers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ
Free will doesn't exist.....
He does exist, I was into the New Age jazz doing tarot readings and Manifestation,meditation, my ex turned out to be a witch that tried to kill me. I've seen stuff its real, but its not from God, but from the other dude. Luckily God pulled me out of the situation or I was on my way to hell and deservingly so. Sometimes you are blind until you start dreaming about demons every night and your dog starts chasing them around the apartment. The other dude can also send people into your life to maybe tell you about Christ Consciousness or how special you are. Its so tricky really. Until you open the Bible and learn you are detestable infront of a Holy God ( not your sin, you yourself) because of the stuff you have practiced.
you can call him the Devil a lowlife scumbag who has no power unless we give it to him. I hate him.
God bless you, you are a testimony to His greatness. I pray that our Lord Jesus uses you as an example, as a testimony, of His MIGHTY works. Please always remember who the Som sets free, is free indeed.
John 8:36
36 So if the Son sets you free, you are truly free.
And that you are a new creation through Christ Jesus, your old does not define you.
2 Corinthians 5:17
“17This means that anyone who belongs to Christ has become a new person. The old life is gone; a new life has begun!”
The enemy no longer has grip over you, remain constant and consistent in God’s word, I know He is going to use your mightily.
Praying for your brother. Jesus loves you. 🤍✝️
Yes, I agree with you Cliffe, and I think you're very wise.. However I am a white South African, and trying to be the best Christian that I can.. A lot of us white South Africans are doing the best we can down here to follow Jesus and serve him, despite receiving mass amounts of attacks and oppression from all sides.. Just be a bit careful, not sure how white South Africans are being portrayed out there, but we're not all terrible 🥺
Us atheists really need a logical religious person to keep us consistent
Here’s the real issue if your worldview doesn’t square with reality shouldn’t you go back and question your worldview and look for a worldview that does square up with reality Like objective morals like objective meaning of life
@@bigtxsdude You pose some excellent questions. I do believe my world view does square up with reality, and here's why.
I like Cliffe's content because he keeps atheists from being ignorant and inconsistent about their own worldview. On the topic of objective meaning of life, most atheists (like the one being interviewed) are unwilling to accept that their lives are meaningless, despite their atheist views. I, in contrast, accept the ultimate atheist conclusion: that my own life is meaningless, and the only purpose I have in life is the purpose I choose for myself. So I would argue my logic is consistent on the meaning of life.
As for objective morality, I love that you asked that, and I think it's a fascinating question. The atheist conclusion must also be that no objective morality exists, and the question this begs is, as Cliffe asks, "Where, then, does morality come from? Who defines morality?" The answer is the winners of history.
A tv series called "The Man in the High Castle" describes a world where the axis powers (Germany, Japan, and Italy) have won world war 2. On this version of earth, everyone wakes up and hails hitler as their rightful ruler. In this world, Jews are a plague that must be eradicated. And these are morally correct things to think. So how do we know that our morals are better than the seemingly twisted moral systems of this world we look at? The answer is, because we won. The axis powers were defeated, therefore their ethical systems did not live on to the present day. And you may say, "just because you lose a fight doesn't mean you are wrong". And I agree. I don't think their ethical system is any more right or wrong than ours is. But it is weaker. Their ethical system didn't survive into the next phase of history because it was weaker than the other systems. This is the first example of why I believe that societies, as a whole, undergo evolutionary processes that affect their moral systems. That is where morality comes from, and I'll give another example to make it more clear, because I know it’s a little confusing.
The Aztec empire is an example of weak moral ideas. Their religion taught them that many must sacrifice themselves to the gods for the greater good of their civilization. But this is a weak Idea because while their population was wasting useful manpower, the christians who put a high value on life were taking over most of europe. The christians, having more manpower and as a result more technology, easily wiped out the Aztecs when they fought. The Christian god is no more valid than the gods the Aztecs worshipped, but the christians prevail today because their value of life created a stronger society than the Aztec value of sacrifice did.
This even explains why religion pops up in the first place. In the agrarian era, when nobody knows how to work together, everyone is selfish, and little progress is made. However, a group of people bonded by a religion are given values that make them work together as a group, and over the years, as their group becomes more numerous, they outcompete and dominate those that continue to live without religious beliefs, who have less friends.
So essentially, I believe that morals are created through centuries of societal evolution, and as time goes on, the morals that survive through time are the ones that serve to build a stronger society. If you see any flaws in my logic, please tell me. My beliefs are as nuanced as they are because I try to have people disprove me as often as possible, and when they succeed, I know I have work to do.
@@bigtxsdude You pose some excellent questions. I do believe my world view does square up with reality, and here's why.
I like Cliffe's content because he keeps atheists from being ignorant and inconsistent about their own worldview. On the topic of objective meaning of life, most atheists (like the one being interviewed) are unwilling to accept that their lives are meaningless, despite their atheist views. I, in contrast, accept the ultimate atheist conclusion: that my own life is meaningless, and the only purpose I have in life is the purpose I choose for myself. So I would argue my logic is consistent on the meaning of life.
As for objective morality, I love that you asked that, and I think it's a fascinating question. The atheist conclusion must also be that no objective morality exists, and the question this begs is, as Cliffe asks, "Where, then, does morality come from? Who defines morality?" The answer is the winners of history.
A tv series called "The Man in the High Castle" describes a world where the axis powers (Germany, Japan, and Italy) have won world war 2. On this version of earth, everyone wakes up and hails hitler as their rightful ruler. In this world, Jews are a plague that must be eradicated. And these are morally correct things to think. So how do we know that our morals are better than the seemingly twisted moral systems of this world we look at? The answer is, because we won. The axis powers were defeated, therefore their ethical systems did not live on to the present day. And you may say, "just because you lose a fight doesn't mean you are wrong". And I agree. I don't think their ethical system is any more right or wrong than ours is. But it is weaker. Their ethical system didn't survive into the next phase of history because it was weaker than the other systems. This is the first example of why I believe that societies, as a whole, undergo evolutionary processes that affect their moral systems. That is where morality comes from, and I'll give another example to make it more clear, because I know it’s a little confusing.
The Aztec empire is an example of weak moral ideas. Their religion taught them that many must sacrifice themselves to the gods for the greater good of their civilization. But this is a weak Idea because while their population was wasting useful manpower, the christians who put a high value on life were taking over most of europe. The christians, having more manpower and as a result more technology, easily wiped out the Aztecs when they fought. The Christian god is no more valid than the gods the Aztecs worshipped, but the christians prevail today because their value of life created a stronger society than the Aztec value of sacrifice did.
This even explains why religion pops up in the first place. In the agrarian era, when nobody knows how to work together, everyone is selfish, and little progress is made. However, a group of people bonded by a religion are given values that make them work together as a group, and over the years, as their group becomes more numerous, they outcompete and dominate those that continue to live without religious beliefs, who have less friends.
So essentially, I believe that morals are created through centuries of societal evolution, and as time goes on, the morals that survive through time are the ones that serve to build a strong society. If you see any flaws in my logic, please tell me. My beliefs are as nuanced as they are because I try to have people disprove me as often as possible, and when they succeed, I know I have work to do.
To those who claim my worldview is inconsistent, you pose some excellent questions. I believe my world view does square up with reality, and here's why.
I like Cliffe's content because he keeps atheists from being ignorant and inconsistent about their own worldview. On the topic of objective meaning of life, most atheists (like the one being interviewed) are unwilling to accept that their lives are meaningless, despite their atheist views. I, in contrast, accept the ultimate atheist conclusion: that my own life is meaningless, and the only purpose I have in life is the purpose I choose for myself. So I would argue my logic is consistent on the meaning of life.
As for objective morality, I love that you asked that, and I think it's a fascinating question. The atheist conclusion must also be that no objective morality exists, and the question this begs is, as Cliffe asks, "Where, then, does morality come from? Who defines morality?" The answer is the winners of history.
A tv series called "The Man in the High Castle" describes a world where the axis powers (Germany, Japan, and Italy) have won world war 2. On this version of earth, everyone wakes up and hails hitler as their rightful ruler. In this world, Jews are a plague that must be eradicated. And these are morally correct things to think. So how do we know that our morals are better than the seemingly twisted moral systems of this world we look at? The answer is, because we won. The axis powers were defeated, therefore their ethical systems did not live on to the present day. And you may say, "just because you lose a fight doesn't mean you are wrong". And I agree. I don't think their ethical system is any more right or wrong than ours is. But it is weaker. Their ethical system didn't survive into the next phase of history because it was weaker than the other systems. This is the first example of why I believe that societies, as a whole, undergo evolutionary processes that affect their moral systems. That is where morality comes from, and I'll give another example to make it more clear, because I know it’s a little confusing.
The Aztec empire is an example of weak moral ideas. Their religion taught them that many must sacrifice themselves to the gods for the greater good of their civilization. But this is a weak Idea because while their population was wasting useful manpower, the christians who put a high value on life were taking over most of europe. The christians, having more manpower and as a result more technology, easily wiped out the Aztecs when they fought. The Christian god is no more valid than the gods the Aztecs worshipped, but the christians prevail today because their value of life created a stronger society than the Aztec value of sacrifice did.
This even explains why religion pops up in the first place. In the agrarian era, when nobody knows how to work together, everyone is selfish, and little progress is made. However, a group of people bonded by a religion are given values that make them work together as a group, and over the years, as their group becomes more numerous, they outcompete and dominate those that continue to live without religious beliefs, who have less friends.
So essentially, I believe that morals are created through centuries of societal evolution, and as time goes on, the morals that survive through time are the ones that serve to build a strong society. If you see any flaws in my logic, please tell me. My beliefs are as nuanced as they are because I try to have people disprove me as often as possible, and when they succeed, I know I have work to do.
Religion and Atheism are the same thing.....
A belief in nothingness!
The bible(and every other ancient Mystical Manuscript) has been hijacked by the carnal minds/human minds ignorance of the belief in a life separate and apart from Omnipresence(God....Oneness), yet, if Spiritually Discerned as it's meant to be, shows us how to walk out of the appearance of matter, out of the shadow of the Acceptance of birth and death(Atheism), and into the Immortal State of Our Being that is Spirit/Immortality/Incorporeality/Consciousness As the Only Presence.
The Bible reveals the Unreality of the Material Dream of the Mind, and the Reality of Spirit/God as the Only Presence, not a religious teaching!!!
The Truth and Untruth are placed next to each other in the Bible to show us Immortal Spirit as Reality, and the Mental Distortion we call Finite Form that we Entertain as Reality....
What we believe we are experiencing as a mortal being is actually the Binding/Imprisoning of Spiritual Immortality as the Truth of the Activity of Our Consciousness into a Mortal and Material Sense of Awareneness.
The message of the bible(and all true Spiritual teachings) is not for the timid, it is for those who are willing to walk the Earth in Proportion to their Receptivity of Spiritual Immortality as Jesus, Buddha, Lao Tzu, Shankara, and many others have(THE STRAIT GATE)!
Through the Realization and Acceptance of Spirit as the Only Presence Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, and many others became Interpreters and Demonstrators(as you will ultimately be)for the language of the Realization of Spirit/God as the Only Presence. Thereby Demonstrating the Unreality of the Material World, Human Mind, and the 5 Senses.
Everything of the Senses is Perishable because it is not of Spirit, and therefore, not a Reality.
Everything of Spirit is Imperishable, and your Divine Infinite Being, that which Jesus called The Father Within, the Buddha called the Buddha Mind, and Lao Tzu called the Tao, is Immortal, Omnipresent Spirit.
Jesus was saying what all Illumined beings said before and after him, which is:
Realize your own Divine, Immortal Nature within, and it will lead you out of the Veiled Dream of Time and Space. Out of the Karmic Cycle of Birth and Death.
Follow me I, the Spirit of your being across the Mystical Ocean of Time where you don't walk in the world of matter, form, physicality, iniquity, mortality.....
The Immortal Spirit(aka Christ, just a name used to identify a State of Consciousness) we are walks in the Kingdom of Heaven right here, where no mortal being or carnal mind can reach it!!
The Christ we are is Untouchable, and only sees that which is the Kingdom of Spirit/God!!
Where everything appears to be, only Spirit/God is....
The Cornerstone of the Christ(God/Spiritual Consciousness Realized)Teaching is that Spirit/God is the Only Presence, not to worship Jesus the illusory form that is nothing and can do nothing of itself....(with Spirit being the only Presence, to worship anything of an illusory material nature, such as a human form, is to worship a graven image, as all matter is a graven image).
GOD/SPIRIT IS OMNIPRESENT!
(God/Spirit is the Only Presence)
Therefore, to Be Reborn is to Overcome the Belief of a Human Birth, and Accept Spirit as the Only Presence!
What is not of Spirit is not a reality.
Every Temptation of this World is Meaningless when you know the Truth of Your Immortal Christ/God/Spiritual Being!! The Matter/Error/Evil is not there, ONLY THE TEMPTATION TO ACCEPT IT AS REALITY IS!!
This doesn't mean you can't experience the things of this world, it simply means to keep yourself from believing any of it is real! Think of it as an interactive movie in which you are able to Impersonalize it and just enjoy the experience as a Spiritually Divine Being!
Peace Be Unto You!!
The New Message from God has been gifted to us all to spare us of ambiguity.
Cliff God bless u...... wonderful words❤
MANY Unbelievers are gonna have a Rude Awakening Upon the day of the return of The Son Of Man... When EVERY Knee Will Bow And EVERY Tongue Will Confess That JESUS Christ (Yeshua) The Messiah Is LORD!
Yaaaawn.
How many times do jesus need to come to earth to fix things? For a an all powerlfull god it's really strange to me that the first time was so unsuccessful that people think he needs to come back.
@@bibleburner8426 LMAO! 😂
Yeah, You Keep Sleeping! 😅
You will have your Rude Awakening upon the day of the return of The Son Of Man... When EVERY Knee Will Bow And EVERY Tongue Will Confess That JESUS Christ (Yeshua) The Messiah Is LORD!
@@samaxechuckfinley3593 Blah blah blah
🤡👉@@bibleburner8426
Preach it brother!!! ❤
This guy has is on fire❤
My parents put it to me like this, they told me that I am only good because there was a standard put in place by them, when I stepped out of line my parents corrected it, sometimes that correction was quite harsh but it taught me a lesson that will never forget. That standard was taught to them by their parents and so on. But when and where and why and who and what started that standard. My parents told me that God started it. Maybe that’s true maybe that not but I understand both sides of the arguement.
Who is taught a lesson when a baby is born with cancer or horrendous deformities?
“Truth is not determined by a majority vote.”
- Pope Benedict XVI
We are flawed because we sin. God is perfection in His Glory ,Mercy, Love ,and Grace! Please don't try to out think God. He created us and loves us. Accept His plan for your life today. ❤
Creator or not if you have a brain and eyes there's something beautiful and meaningful in it. And it's obvious making story's is a decent bit of our meaning,and too be what you your sould deep down wants to do or be. This planet regardless is a learning ground and story maker. And it's all for a higher purpose we'll never understand in our flesh vessels. And people who can't grasp that we can't know it all lose faith or get upset. We'll never truly know,and that's okay. Live and enjoy existence
I'm a Christian, but please, calm it down with the swelling music - it adds nothing to the moment
If your biggest issue with this video is the music, then it was an outstanding success.
@@landen99 Pretty easy (and convenient) to deem the video an "outstanding success" when your only metric is the assumption that 1) the issue raised didn't significantly detract from the video, and 2) there were no other issues besides the one raised
makes sense
Dude, this is a snippet...if you wanna watch the original without music go to AskClyffe, his channel...
This is beautifully done, and the musical accompaniment is adding to it, like music does to lyrics, makes them hit harder. I really don't know what you're on about, but it does give it a level of somberness and sweetness...
@@angru_arches Well, your opinion is the exact opposite of mine, and that's fine 😉
At least that girl is thinking
You could see it in her face
and here's her thought
HE MAYBE RIGHT
But the dude she was talking to never once allowed that SHE might be right, because his mind is closed and hers is not.
@@williamgreenfield9991His mind is not closed He just has his own beliefs.
@@Vegetaisbetter Having your own beliefs and never thinking that you could be wrong is the very definition of a closed mind.
@williamgreenfield9991 he does consider what they say. I watched a video about a woman that said, "what if this is all a game to God? What if they ate up there laughing?'he said, "maybe your right" but then proceeded to tell her why he doesn't believe that.
@@Vegetaisbetter Why does GOD save
anyone Romans says for his good pleasure
The Bible is not the only source of morality. Nor is religion.
Neither is university. We need to dig deeper into this existence. The Bible is an amazing book and a great way to do just that.
Amen
"Your god sounds like a fantasy."
"Maybe you're right, to say that my God is a fantasy I use so that I don't--"
"No, I said nothing about your motive."
7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.
The universe is under no obligation to make sense for you, period!
It's like saying believe in God is under no obligation to make sense to you lol
@@DontOpenThisChannel ha, more likely Mother Nature is under no obligation to make sense for all of us.
@@coopernickerson7470 who is this mother nature? When does she begin to exist and why? What is the empirical evidence for mother nature?
@@DontOpenThisChannel do you poop? Do you piss? Does your body decompose when you die? Cremate into ash? Where does your body go? Never mind soul as there isn’t an empirical evidence to show too.
@@DontOpenThisChannelThe universe is empirical evidence of nature. If it didn't exist we simply wouldn't be here to experience it.
Pretty much every isolated civilisation on earth has made up its own myths and legends regarding origins and gods. It is human nature to make things up when we don't have all the facts and christianity, judaism and islam are no different.
All the evidence shows that we exist in a natural universe and not a magical one. 😊
I have died and I can tell you that heaven is real and it was angels who guided and guarded me back to put me back in my body. It's REAL and so is hell girl. Believe that.
Did you wake up straight after you were clinically dead?
Jesus was dead for three days straight.
@@NewyorkRicanSoulPodcast But he was a god apparently so it doesn't count.
@TheTruthKiwi oh no. I am in no way saying anything like that. I am speaking on my experience. I LOVE Jesus, and my experience was one of forgiveness, guidance, and love. I just want people to know that there is more to us and our lives than we know and there is nothing worse than dying in sin and regret. Get right with Jesus and stay right.
@@evelynbare1975 Why do you need a magical entity from another dimension to be happy? Do you think you're immortal?
Ah, but we don't WANT to believe in God, because if there is one Creator God, then we are accountable...
Nope, that is the worst apologist argument ever. The most rational and reasonable position is to withhold belief until sufficient evidence is found and proven right?
@@TheTruthKiwi That wasn't al apologist argument at all, but a valid point. Mostly we believe what we want to believe.
As for real arguments, "sufficient evidence" is what is at issue here. There are different kinds of evidence, and different standards for what constitutes "proof", depending on the type of evidence involved. And some people have VERY different standards for what constitutes "sufficient evidence". Modern flat earth arguments, the "Space is Fake" arguments, and the "The Apollo Moon Landings Are fake" arguments all point to some strange forms of "sufficiency" when it comes to "proving things right". Can you "prove beyond all shadow of doubt" that George Washington was the first president of the United States, for example? In that case the best we can do is look into the various historical records and surviving documents. Was GW even a real person, or a made-up fable designed to create a certain national narrative? No eye witnesses survive, but we can draw from multiple sources, and put together a historical narrative, such that we can reasonably conclude that GW was indeed the first president. When it comes to much of the Bible, the evidence is of very much the same kind, and so now, Mr. Truth Kiwi, how far are you willing to dig?
And do you WANT to dig for evidence at all (which was my original point)? Because if you go all-in, trying to "prove that it can't be proven" you are likely to end up like Lee Strobel, a very reluctant (at first) convert! Check out his story. So it comes down to your personal incentive structure, which, again, was my original point. If you REALLY want to get to the bottom of the issue, so to speak, there is a LOT to discover (and more physical and historical evidence is being unearthed all the time [i.e. the "rocks are crying out"]), but it will require commitment and work. It's far easier, and often fun, to sit back and mock, but in that case you're missing out on tons of fascinating new information.
God wrote it on our hearts
Love u Cliffe !
We (humans) define morality. That's why it's SO important we get it right! This argument is polite, just not complete...
Yup, we most likely naturally developed morals and ethics as instincts as we evolved as a species. No gods needed or shown to be involved whatsoever.
The logical conclusion of atheism is truly bleak. If there's no Creator, there's NO purpose to anything. It's really too bad so many people fell for the globe lie. When people know it's flat they naturally conclude there's a creator that placed us here. Maranatha!
If an omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenevolent entity in another dimension actually existed he would send our souls straight to heaven or hell.
911. Never forget. Never forgive.
Mike drop! Amen 🙏
If Jesus was in that man cliff would he try to convince her with words or show her by action...like stand up and walk.
Exactly.
I wish UA-cam would not have put a commercial w sexual content before this video.
Cliff referring to other believers JUST LIKE HIM so convinced of their moral superiority BASED ON GOD they would sacrifice the lives of many. And STILL convinced morality comes from God. Mind blowing reasoning. Accepting 180 degree different outcomes from same reasoning and defending that with 'but I know what is right and they do not' like they do. With a book of God in their hands. Fairytales. Morality is in your heart, your genes and imorinted after millions of years of trial and error. Which for instance learns us that stealing will not work very well in the long run. People don't like it. Thus will do something against it.
And indeed there IS NO meaning to live. Not the slightest. We are there so better make the best of it and in that we we indeed can create purpose if we want. For ourselves, for our group.
Yup, can't argue with that. It's sickening seeing this guy going around misleading and indoctrinating young minds. We exist in a natural universe, not a magical one.
He is convinced that we are not the product of a big bang. That’s all. Take a look at the human eye and then contemplate how intricate it is designed. Just like the rest of the world around us is. Dig deeper. Critical thinking skills.
@@NewyorkRicanSoulPodcast Maybe study evolutionary biology and see how the eve has evolved over hundreds of thousands of generations.
Who defines yellow? Cliffe could be convinced to the root of his being and be dead wrong.
Exactly
Yeah cliff no joke but do u like law on tekken 8?
Uff Tekken 8. My goodness
@@jmanuel722 yeah it’s a really cool game espy if you like Marshall law
@@ultimit_taijutso I’m an Asuka Kazama guy. Law is cool though
Are you spending $8 for Eddie Gordo? I think I will even though I’m a Marshall Law man.
@@NewyorkRicanSoulPodcast naw I can’t
Someone badly needs to understand what a false dichotomy is.
Testament means Covenant or agreement only parts of the old apply we know which by adhering to the new make sure if somebody comes to you and says there's nothing worth fighting for that you do not believe before they say that doesn't require a fight and if somebody says nothing's better than mashed potatoes that if they like to play empty rather than mashed potatoes or they like mashed potatoes then all other options that you understood what they meant when they said it.
If you said in the 1950s it's chill that means it's cold outside in the it means a mood.
James 3:16 for where envy and strife is there's confusion in every kind of evil work. every sin after the New Testament always requires a little bit of uncaring selfishness out that a God or to your fellow people and the Gratitude you're willing to offer to either will give me tools to predict how your behave note when somebody asks for forgiveness truly sincerely in the heart I know they wish they did nothing wrong in the past and I can set a stage before you get to a play.
Cliff is confused on a couple of things here. Lets look at the first problem. I only got halfway too.
It's an almost nihilistic argument to say that you have no meaning without a magical man in the sky. It's actually quite sad if you believe this. I have 2 daughters that are everything to me. You're telling me that they have no meaning? You're telling me that it's meaningless because it only matters to me?
That is the argument.
You're saying that the only way your life can have meaning is when there is a magical being looking down on us. That's an unsupported and somewhat depressing argument.
What a shame you’re using TicToc. I try not to view ANYTHING on that platform.
😂. There is actually some content out there that cause us to think critically about life and our purpose here.
No God. No meaning. Simples...😊
full video?
The apologist has a channel, it's called AskClyffe
What a terrible argument..... embarrassing
I suppose you can do better with the Big Bang.
@NewyorkRicanSoulPodcast the big bang is physics. Which has nothing to do with Atheism. Millions of Christians support the big bang. So don't start there.....
And seriously? You don't understand the meaning and value of life without religion?
You don't understand morality without a violent book?
cliffe: well, who says u about morality if not god? me: the society. the HUMAN society.
There is a higher power. The same power that inspired the Bible. Try reading it and get a glimpse into human society.
@@NewyorkRicanSoulPodcast religious rambling which makes no sense
Bro put the music louder I can't hear it
Before the bible and Jesus were ever known there was human conscience, which is innate. No one needs religion or religious texts because anything that violates conscience should be ignored. Anything in congruence with conscience is already informed by conscience. In peaceful societies never aware of the great religions, which exist even to this day, the degree of their interpersonal success is directly related to how closely conscience is followed. Scientists have studied these cultures' demographics for generations, documenting their success compared to modern first world societies of scale. While not perfect, the demographic results are better than nearly every metric of those measured in modern first world societies.
Good to see there are some rational people out there. Thank you. 😊
Peaceful societies?? Where? So I can move there.
@@NewyorkRicanSoulPodcast Sweden, France, Germany, Switzerland Australia, New Zealand to name a few. But Europe is now being corrupted by Islam
Easy , evolution of the human experience...
There's proof of it that predates Christianity.
I respect th guy but this I don't agree with. She's not sitting her saying that she thinks life is meaningless.
He's assuming.
But this whole thing of without God there is no reason to be moral, I have always disagreed with. For that to be true then anyone that's not Christian or Atheist would ALL be absolutely immoral monster.
Which just isn't the case.
Alot of why one acts morally is out o the awful feeling we get when we do something we know in our hearts to be wrong. That feeling is independent of the belief in any type of God.
Very good ideas but if you dig a little deeper you will find the meaning and purpose of life when you read the Bible. It’s an incredible read. It is like looking into a mirror and seeing you from the inside but also the outside as God sees us. Can I suggest you start with the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John? You will see that the Old Testament predicted Jesus’s coming and death to atone for our sins. God knows in a personal level what loss is. He gave us his only son.
@@NewyorkRicanSoulPodcast I have read the Bible. I've read a lot of religious texts.
Hmm
The music is distracting
I have left many comments on this section and they all get deleted. The owner of this channel is stealing my right to argue with people and i find it immoral personally. I would like to debete with people who have different view of mine even if we disagree with each other.
So have I and I wouldn't be surprised if they all disappear. To be fair the UA-cam comments platform is glitchy af but I'm sure the channel owners go through and delete all the rational comments as well.
This is my first time seeing your comment. So your issue had nothing to do with me. I hope that you get the kind of arguments that you’re looking for but as for me personally I’m not trying to argue about anything. Cliffe is merely reasoning with people to get them to think critically about their world view. He is not pushing religion or Christianity. Just Jesus. He also encourages everyone to do their own research. Simple.
@@NewyorkRicanSoulPodcast How exactly is blindly believing the bible "thinking critically?"
The logical explanation of atheism 😂😂😂
You mean atheism, which you need to have way more faith to believe in?
😂😂😂😂
The most rational and reasonable position is to withhold belief until sufficient evidence is found and proven right?
@TheTruthKiwi like a big bang? Everything came from nothing?
Order came from chaos?
Life came from non life?
We all came from single cell organisms?
Evolution?
Yea, you definitely need more faith to be an atheist than to believe in intelligent design
@@bradalanmusic808 How do you know that the universe isn't in an eternal natural loop? Perhaps as the last universe expanded and reached maximum entropy it then collapsed into a singularity and when the singularity reached maximum density it expanded again into our, and the cycle continues..
That is infinitely more likely than an omnipotent entity from another dimension magically poofing everything into existence from nothing.
The bottom line is that we just don't know so no absolute claims can be made. If you claim to know exactly what existed or occurred prior to the Big Bang, or the Planck Epoch to be more specific, then you are deluded or are being dishonest, probably both.
@@bradalanmusic808 How do you know that the universe isn't in an eternal natural loop? Perhaps as the last universe expanded and reached maximum entropy it then collapsed into a singularity and when the singularity reached maximum density it expanded again into our universe, and the cycle continues...
The bottom line is that we just don't know so no absolute claims can be made. If you claim to know exactly what existed or occurred prior to the Big Bang, or the Planck Epoch to be more specific, then you are deluded or are being dishonest, probably both.
@@bradalanmusic808 How do you know that the universe isn't in an eternal natural loop? Perhaps as the last universe expanded and reached maximum entropy it then collapsed into a singularity and when the singularity reached maximum density it expanded again into our universe, and the cycle continues...
The bottom line is that we just don't know so no absolute claims can be made. If you claim to know exactly what existed or occurred prior to the Big Bang, or the Planck Epoch to be more specific, then you are deluded or are being dishonest, probably both.
Your creating a fantasy by believing that nothing created everything
A painting and a building are made out of natural materials right? How exactly do you know that matter and energy hasn't always existed in some natural form?
She shows him for what he is. Atheists actually have more meaning in their life, probably. They appreciate this one life more, as they wouldn't just wait around in subservience for the second life that doesn't exist.
You nailed it. Life is much more precious if you think that this is it. Anyone who thinks this life is just brief prelude to eternity can't possibly love THIS WORLD like I do.
Exactly 😊
Those who love their life will lose it. Those who give up their life for God will inherit eternal life. Life is a vapor. Find out its meaning and your purpose in it and you will find a peace that is beyond human understanding. I pray that you seek greater understanding of God and of yourself. It’s in the Bible if you read it.
@@NewyorkRicanSoulPodcast No matter how much you want it to be true we are most likely not immortal.
@@NewyorkRicanSoulPodcast Don't waste your only life, yearning for some utopian fictional afterlife, I urge you.
Your chosen god in your scripture committed multiple genocides and creates people sinful so he can punish them. He sounds truly awful, by any human standards of the past, let alone our more evolved and empathetic times.
no. if there is no god the morality doesnt change a bit.
The human conscience defines right and wrong.
Well that's not true because i was raised in an addict family and I thought that's what life was all about drugs and my conscience never defined it as wrong because I thought it was right
@@ChristopherMack-h5d sorry to hear of your unfortunate environment. But it must be noted that not everyone has a conscience. And that's a huge problem in every society. Psychologists define such individuals as psychopathic or sociopathic. They represent less than one percent of the population and gravitate towards positions of power control and authority, we then elect as politicians. But conscience is not instinct. It does not force, but only guides unharmful behavior. conscience can be over written by environment. Exposure to drugs is an example of environmental conditioning that can overwrite the promptings of conscience. Abuse and abandonment are others. The vast majority are not so afflicted and therefore, have retained a sufficient sensitivity to conscience, otherwise everyone would be psychopaths. This allows for a more consistent degree of constructive interpersonal outcomes. So what we as a society have a responsibility to do is teach people, especially our youths, to adhere to principles of behavior that do not over write or desensitize conscience but increase its sensitivity. The whole concept of universal law is an outflow of adherence to conscience and when followed, mirror the teachings of yeshua who took that innate adherence to a whole new metaphysical level called love, which is a natural evolution of conscience.
@@ChristopherMack-h5dAnd now your conscience has found that it was wrong so he's right. 😊
@@TheTruthKiwi yeah after training my mind to think differently your conscience goes off of feelings if it feels right most of the time your conscience is going to tell you that its right whether its wrong or right
@@ChristopherMack-h5d So, we're all in agreement then. Op was right. 😊
The music is too much and loses the message
Man.
Sigh....U need to Fantasize of something to be a good guy
Father almost kill his son because of God. Is that Justice? Huh?
God already knew how much he love god but still test him anyway.
COMMON SENSE defines morality.
If you dont know what morality looks like, you likely dont believe in much common sense either.
We have humanism that which came before religion
First, if the Bible is true then Humanism did not come before GOD, but also you cant justify humanism without GOD
@@dreaddshortsPresup nonsense. Prove your god even exists first.
The universe has a start therefore it requires a cause, GOD is the uncaused causer. ☦@@TheTruthKiwi
@@TheTruthKiwiHe created the universe, if nothing creates the universe it cannot be created, big bang says int he beginning was nothing then BOOM. There has to be something outside the material world for that boom to happen, it cannot be cause by nothing, that's impossible.
@@dreaddshorts How do you know that matter and energy hasn't always existed in some natural form?
How do you know that the universe isn't in an eternal natural loop? Perhaps as the last universe expanded and reached maximum entropy it then collapsed into a singularity and when the singularity reached maximum density it expanded again into our universe, and the cycle continues...
Isn't that infinitely more likely than an omnipotent entity from another dimension magically poofing everything into existence from nothing?
The bottom line is that we just don't know so no absolute claims can be made. From what we know and have observed though, we exist in a natural universe and not a magical one.
I didn't get it, don't society created morality? And isn't that why different cultures have different laws
It's interesting how the most rational comments have been downvoted into oblivion.
i like how he brings up 911. which was 1000% done by our own government and not any religious extremists.
I find this line of reasoning to be seriously flawed and I wish believers would stop using it. There is no reason why millions of years of evolution couldn't instill in humans the ideas of morality and justice. These are beneficial to communities and those who didn't have a sense of morality and justice would be at an evolutionary disadvantage. An atheist and a theistic evolutionist could agree on this as fact.
Yes but that's rational and reasonable. Cliff has to reject rationality and reason to keep the magical entity in his mind alive. 😊
@@TheTruthKiwiI'm not sure why this line of reasoning continues to be used. I've seen it over the years and it is so easily shown to be flawed. I don't make any judgement as to why it is used; I just point out the flaw when I see it.
@@mikesarno7973 They have use flawed reasoning otherwise they'd have to use known facts and known facts would mean bye bye to the magical entity in another dimension. It is also a psychological manipulation technique to make the other person feel meaningless and guilty for not having a moral "foundation". It's a very dishonest and dirty tactic by apologists.
Life isn't meaningless even from an atheist perspective. The meaningfulness is just drastically different between the Christian and the non-Christian.
Great point. 😊
You’ll find the Bible accurately describing the human condition. Reading it will be like looking in a mirror. Before I read it I was doing pretty good according to atheist standards. Got lots of money and plenty of pleasure but as the Bible says it’s all like a vapor. Here today and gone tomorrow. Cliffe is causing those people to think critically about their lives and its meaning.
@@NewyorkRicanSoulPodcast Why do you need a magical entity from another dimension to give your life purpose?
@@NewyorkRicanSoulPodcastagreed.
This is what I don’t like about Cliffe’s interaction with pagan unbelievers, is that he gives their judgement about God too much credence, as if their view of God is valid-when it’s NOT. Cliffe, tell them they’re on their way to Hell because they broke God’s laws and if they never reconcile with Him through the life and death of the Son (Jesus Christ), then it will be too late for repentance once their soul leaves their bodies.
You are really trying to get everyone who doesn’t think like you to hate your beliefs by doing this
@@Blarvee515 How? Why? Because I say it plainly?
I’m just saying telling people that they’re stupid for not believing something you can’t prove to them isn’t going to convert anyone to your religion. Even if you are right, we don’t necessarily believe you, and getting us to understand your way of thinking when we disagree takes patience and logical analysis, which is exactly what Cliffe is trying to do.
If your goal is to make sure no atheists ever accept god, then telling them they’re stupid without displaying any reasoning is a great idea
@@Blarvee515 The Holy Bible calls them: "Fools", because they reject the obvious. BigBang idea is dumb. You don't get ORDER, COMPLEXITY, and BEAUTY out of chaos. It doesn't happen. And Christians don't have to prove anything. It's the atheists that have to prove their dumb claim that there is no god. We, nor God is on trial. It is you fools that are, and God will hold each person accountable on Judgement Day. Culture at this moment (as well as many Christians) have it backwards. If you want to go to Hell, that's your deal. God will allow it. But I hope you humble your heart and consider taking the focus off your sins (self-pleasing lifestyle) and put it on Jesus. Listen to his words. Have you ever read the Holy Bible? Most critiques of the Bible never read it.
Sorry cliff , but flying planes into buildings does not prove your subjective opinion is correct that the deity you subjectively worship has objective morality
Yup 💯
That student was a good sport but she lacked the ability to push back. The issue with Cliff's logic is that at the root of his rationale, he suggests that a God must be the root. Nothing that he spoke to validates the existence of a God.
Totally agree with you 👍
Let’s hear you try to validate a Big Bang. The order of the world. The sky’s the moon the stars. Trees birds dogs plants people all intelligently designed. It’s impossible for something to come out of nothing. That points to an intelligent creator and designer. He is outside of time. He also sustains us in his omnipotence. Read his book (The Bible)and take a look at the history behind the world we know.
@@NewyorkRicanSoulPodcast I don't have to try and validate it - science is at least trying, religious people would rather just make shit up. You sure as hell don't place your hands in God when you drive your car.....you trust in the safety systems of your vehicle. Anyway, back to the actual topic - just because he stumped a group of students doesn't make him right, it just means that he knows how to choose his prey.
@@NewyorkRicanSoulPodcast Always with the tired argument from ignorance and incredulity. "I don't know how the universe could've originated naturally therefore gods"
He actually says that the WTC bombers thought they were doing something good, as an argument against atheism! Lol. They were religious, and did that utterly awful thing precisely because of a god belief. He undermines his whole argument. She is calm and honest. He is uptight and grifting using strawman arguments.
The human condition is wretched. Hitler wasn’t religious. Neither was Charles Manson. He is causing people to think critically about what their purpose in this life is. It isn’t some constantly evolving moral process that occurred after a Big Bang, that’s for sure.
@@NewyorkRicanSoulPodcast The current evidence points exactly to that. I realise your cognitive dissonance and desire for a god, outweighs evidence in your mind. But there are facts out there if you look truthfully.
Problem 2. Morality can't exist without a magical being. Why not? Humans have defined morality based on what they overwhelmingly agree that they want.
"who defines morality if there is no god?" - Humans enviously.
Theists really struggle with this. If the answer is more complicated than 'god says so' they unravel.
Why would humans have morality. It is a weakness.
So if humans define what is moral, then what Hitler did was moral based on your definition. The vast majority of the people in Germany voted for him and supported what he did. They waved flags and hailed him. They thought what they were doing was in the best interest of their country.
If humans just "decide" what is moral by majority rule, then morality is not fixed and it can change based on the whims of humans.
And without God, why does being moral even matter. Wouldn't natural selection and survival of the fittest make more sense? Everything in life is temporary. Why should morality matter in a world without God? What purpose does morality serve?
Humans can’t agree what is right and wrong.
Some can’t even tell you what a woman is now.
@@Sandyo-wy7nk everybody with a thinking brain that doesn’t have mental illness thinks that murder is wrong.
@@poatoman3376
_"Why would humans have morality."_
Humans want to live in moral societies. It benefits them to do so.
It's "sickening" how Cliffe in the first 30 seconds characterizes "life" as Meaningless. That may have been his motivation for becoming a Christian, but that meaninglessness applies ONLY to HIM. I almost feel sorry for anyone that can't find meaning in life for they are the TRULY Lost. Because there is meaning in every aspect of life. It is a desertion of life to seek meaning in the supernatural. Secondly, he describes Atheism as meaningless and that's either ignorance or a lie. He may have chosen a worldview in which he fails to comprehend how being firmly grounded in the REAL natural universe can bring meaning to life but that narrow and baseless notion is his own failure and need not be anyone else's failure.
There can be [personal] meaning in the wondrousness of the external natural world, in human relationships, the deeds we perform as a member of a social groups, in the responsibility we accept to sustain the natural habitat we evolved in for the future of our species, in the good things we do for others, in our personal sacrifices we accept for the welfare of others, in the physical comfort we can give others, even acknowledging the "gift" of having been born such that we can experience "life".
Don't accept Cliffe's notion of life being meaningless. YOU make life meaningful. And if you fail to do so blame YOURSELF not a godless world.
Couldn't agree more dude.
Bunch of hallucinated people here
Just people using the brain that God gave them. It’s called critical thinking. Dig deeper into your purpose and the reason why you are here.
Human beings define morality, just like human beings. Look at characters from books and then use their subjective opinions to claim that character from a book has objective morality in my subjective opinion.
Exactly 😊
Instead of debating with a kid, why not take someone your size like Aaron Ra? We are all born with a very strong sense of right and wrong. Our power of reason can also define goodness and morality not necessarily reliant on a higher being. Pope Francis told atheists that as long as they dont lose their conscience they will also become successful in the afterlife, go and read that. Tell me, with the extreme hypocrisy, corruption and injustice that pervades the religious world, where is the goodness and morality? And where does evil come from?
Misleading and indoctrinating young minds is much more profitable.
@@TheTruthKiwi I believe such discussions should take place between leading men of intellect between different ideologies while young people watch and decide for themselves. This is utter self ridicule.
@@user-it2ni7ik4t 100% man. Indoctrination is what this is.
First of all Cliffe is not speaking about religion or Christianity. He is speaking about Jesus. Secondly the Bible is more trustworthy than any individual or intellectual. Try reading it and you just might find the answers to your questions.
@@NewyorkRicanSoulPodcast How exactly do you know that any supernatural claims made in the bible are true?
His arguments are so one-sided. He's defining everything based on his own beliefs. He never once took hers nor mine into the equation.
No he agreed that her belief holds water. And then made her look at her belief so she could see that his belief stood the test better .
@@tomlord4469 No. He compared everything to HIS religion. He said the universe is amoral, w/o religion. Not all religions teach the same morals and not all religions preach nonviolence. I have values and morals, but do not believe in the existence of a (or any) deity.
The Aztecs killed people as sacrifices to their God Quetzalcoatl . So, sacrificing children is moral? Or, it's not because YOUR God says otherwise?
@@tomb816 that’s not what he said at all. Your example is reinforcing what he said. He said if there is no God, we definitely have morals regardless, but they can always change depending on the person and society and it’s impossible for you and me to live life as if morals can always change.
@@tomb816 you don’t have objective morals or values. If there is no moral law giver, there are no objective morals. So if morality is relative you’re going to have to accept the holocaust and feeding the homeless are equally valid actions
He absolutely did. In fact in the very beginning he used her argument against her. He quoted her when he said "you make up God because you're scared to face the meaninglessness of life". By that statement alone, she was admitting that if this life is all there is, that means there is no meaning. If there's no meaning that means there is no such thing as morality. If there is no morality, we are all free to do as we wish.
In reality, she's scared of that conclusion because when he pushed back then all of a sudden her tune changed and she said "well I believe my life has meaning" implying that it's not meaningless when it's still, in fact meaningless. He drove the point home when he said that the meaning she gives her life is to help people and expand her mind but the meaning someone else gives is to expand their mind and steal money. Both are equally legitimate. But she fought against that obvious conclusion because she's scared of the consequences of her own worldview because she's chasing feelings and not facts.
This was absolutely not one-sided.