428 Cobra Jet Mustang vs Ram Air 400 Firebird 1/4 mile Drag Race - Road Test TV ®
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- Опубліковано 26 сер 2024
- www.RoadTestTV.com 1/4 mile drag race between a very rare 1969 428 Cobra Jet Mustang GT Coupe and a rare 1968 Firebird powered by a Ram Air 400. The Firebird has an auto transmission and a 4.10 posi rear. The Cobra Jet Mustang has a atuo transmission and 4.11 posi rear. The Mustang is 1 of 243 428 CJ Mustang Coupe's built in 1969.
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Car and Driver tested 5 cars in an issue back in 1968. The 400 Firebird bested the 390 Javelin, 390 Mustang and Cougar, 340 Barracuda, AND the 396 Camaro. Saying it was in a class by itself.
The Ram air II, is on another level.
John Tempest well said. 👏🏼
No wsy
@@johncronin5311 wsy.
Round port heads baby that and the ram air 4 are the best poncho heads of all time
Nice! I love the Firebird. I had a 68' Firebird with the same setup
In highschool my auto shop teacher was a magician with motors owned a 400 Firebird himself that he used to race. Myself owned a 70 Mustang 302 2 barrel single exhaust and he showed me a bunch of tricks to make it go faster and we tuned it with the oscilloscope. As a testament to this man's knowledge my 302 was keeping up with 13-second cars or beating them. That being said I don't think he lost too many races with that Firebird. 🤔
@Mark rapacki I never ran the card on the track all I said was I raced cars that were known to be 13 second cars and yes it is very possible for a two-barrel carbureted to run 13s. Carburetors can be modified to flow with a lot more CFM.
Damn. 12s and 13s is still respectable to today's standards.
That CJ looked like they fell asleep at the tree.
Neither were stock. No firebird ran in the 12s. And Ford did not offer N auto with a 4.11 great. Fire bird was probably stroked or running nitrous. Mustang probably closer to stock. These races don't reflect how these cars came factory. Ram air 4 was quick but nowhere near that quick.
+428CJ70 not true. if the bird came from the factory with a t56 it would have ran those times from the factory. shed about 700lbs too. 400 ra iv was pushing close. to 470 lb ft torque bone stock
428CJ70 Rick Mahoney's 68 RA II runs low 12's all and all stock!
The Ram Air II though almost identical to the Ram Air IV were a different breed. The Ram Air II was a rare and definitely more potent than the Ram Air IV. Most people including yourself, don't know much about Pontiac power. Nitrous LOL...
You do realize all these cars are inspected thoroughly right...That's what I thought
I cant believe the times these cars are running at this event with the tires they are running! The 400 pontiac seems to embarrass alot of big block mopars and fords even down on cubes as well.
Check that, 1969 Trans Ams.
The 67&68 400 Firebirds were the quickest cars that Pontiac made!
@@williamfluck148 ram air II cars wer fast
Lots of fans of the Muscle Car craze like to tout their 426 Hemi's, 454 LS 5/6, 455 Stage1, 455 Rocket, 428 CJ/SCJ, 440"s, and such but keep forgetting that Pontiac was giving them the runs for their money or kicking their butts with only 400 cubes on a small diameter crank main journals!
Any cars can be fast,when you build the piss out of em. Like these.
looks like the Firebird "rammed more air".
Pontiac Ram Air always outperforms the rest! Above 60mph is where they really cook 😎👍🏼
Those RA Birds were a lot faster than many think they are. My '68 used to eat all of those new Camaros and Mustangs for a quick snack.
I have a 68 ra3 with a bunch of goodies. Murders everything.
1cynik how does it do against modern v8s?
Firebird and camaro same thing
@@thebear6751 Nope, not the same thing. Not even close.
my Dad used to have a 1973 Pontiac trans am with a 455 SD.
Winning is winning but I feel the Cobra Jet fell asleep XD... Love Pontiacs and Fords though.
+Joshua Prieto
The Cobra Jet lost by 5 MPH and 3/4 sec. Slow reaction times don't change the ET and MPH.
@@deorojeu The clock doesn't start until the car breaks the beam at the starting line, dummy.
On January 28, 1968 Hubert Platt introduced the 428 Cobra Jet Mustang to the racing world during the AHRA Winter Nationals held at Lions Drag Strip near Los Angeles. He drove one car in C/Stock and red-lighted a 12.62 run in the first round of Top Stock.
Ford's 428 Cobra Jet engine made its "en masse" drag racing debut at the eighth annual National Hot Rod Association (NHRA) Winternationals held from February 2 - 4, 1968, at the Los Angeles County Fairgrounds in Pomona, California. Ford Motor Company sponsored five drivers (Gas Ronda, Jerry Harvey, Hubert Platt, Don Nicholson, and Al Joniec) to race six 428 CJ-equipped Mustangs. The Mustangs raced in the C Stock Automatic (C/SA, 9.00 - 9.49 lbs. per advertised horsepower), Super Stock E, and Super Stock E Automatic (SS/E manual transmission, SS/EA automatic transmission, 8.70 - 9.49 lbs. per advertised horsepower) classes. The engine lived up to expectations as four of the cars made it to their respective class finals. Al Joniec won both his class (defeating Hubert Platt in an all-CJ final) and the overall Super Stock Eliminator (defeating Dave Wren) title.
Just when did Pontiac win with a 400 ci engine an event of this magnitude. These cars running are not stock. A stock factory showroom L88 Vette wasn't running 12's, neither was a Hemi Road Runner.
ronald brignoni Why are fords so ugly? Was there a competition for ugliness? Were they jealous of mopar's ugliness?
Tim Reichert it’s the better looking car!
Road runner and L88 corvette with today's tires on today's tracks can and will run 12s buddy sorry to say so but facts are facts.
@@timreichert9982 Opinions are like rectums. Some more full of crap than others. Yours is obviously over-full.
Gotta do your homework. This isn't your basic firebird. The 68 RA II bird is an advantageous platform for the pure stock drags, which is what you are watching here. It's a round port headed motor with a lot of camshaft (230/240 @ .050), so they make a bit more HP up top as you can see with the trap speed which is an advantage when running stock tire classes like this where traction is tricky, they also have a pretty decent set of factory exhaust manifolds that work well, and 68 birds are one of the lightest F-bodies. They have a lot going for them in a class like this where they have typically run low 12's on a good day. Round port 400 Pontiacs from 68-70 will typically trap 112 to 115 mph using the pure stock rules. SCJ's run good, I have one as well, but in stock form they aren't as advantageous. They don't have a lot of cam for their displacement, the exhaust manifold design is horrible and really hurts flow. They make a lot of grunt down low so they can be tricky to launch, not as much steam made up top though. Some of the better running CJ's can trap in the 110-112 mph range, and Steve's car here appears to be down on power a bit, I've seen the car go high 12's at 110 mph. However it may not have made a difference in this case.
firebirdjone Not to mention the weight difference in motors. Ford big blocks are heavy, some of the weighter motors out there.
Yes, I have a 69 SCJ. Very nose heavy car and not much tail overhang. They don't transfer weight as easily and can be a challenge to hook at the track when running factory polyglas tires.
Yeah, but you know this is very miss leading. I know they have their rules for their class. I’ve not got a problem with that, but they shouldn’t be allowed to call it pure stock. Both words meaning,not modified. I loved these cars back in the day, but they were no where near 12 second cars.
@@lewisshepard9239 These cars are about as stock as you're going to get 50+ years after the fact. Unfortunately with age and mileage, these drivetrains need to be rebuilt, so there are allowances in the rules for that purpose. So they are as close to stock as one can make it with the exception of overbores and a few modern parts that have changed design in the last half century. The days of driving a brand new one off the show room floor are long gone. If you want to see classic cars run the way they were meant to be, in a class that's as close to stock as you'll find, there is no better form of racing out there that demonstrates that. If you want to see these cars modified heavily, but still called stock, check out NHRA Stock Eliminator. It couldn't be further from the word stock.
firebirdjone I understand what you’re saying,but their allowing more than a few modern parts. And that’s fine,but don’t call them “pure stock”
The firebird has an extremely light weight body and matched with the 400 engine (big block) the firebird is a serious contender for any big block muscle car.
Bob More Pontiac doesn’t make a big block!!
Bob More it’s not a big block. The 326 uses the exact same block.
Yep!
Those big block Pontiacs can hang with the big block Fords like this one.
Bob More a duster 340 is known as the big block killer.
It's true Pontiac blocks 326-455 were the same size externally. 326-400 engines had smaller crankshaft journals than the 428-455.
People get butt hurt when they get beat by Pontiac's at pure stock drags all the time. Everyone thinks there Mopar or Big Block Chevy should beat a Pontiac every time. I have a 1970 Pontiac Grand Prix 455 that runs 13:40's all day long. The car has ac , pwr windows , pwr door locks and weighs much more than all the competition. It has 3:73 gears and all factory components internally. It even has log style exhaust manifolds and a quadrajet carb. I have it tuned by working on distributor curve and the carb is always tuned that day ( track day ) for temp , and barometric pressure by myself. My trap speeds are low but the car will hook up good and make 2.1 and sometimes even 1.9 60 foot times. Most of my races are won by cutting a good light and launching better. My 455 makes around 500 ft lbs of torque down low. The hp is around 370.
What tires are you running. A big reason magazine tests were so much lower is that the tested the cars with the terrible tires that came on the car from the dealer.
Horsepower sells engines, torque wins races. At least in a straight line for short distances. Stock BOP usually had the edge. You know.
The reason they get butt hurt is because these “pure stock”are not no where stock. Back in the day a 428 cobra jet mustang would out run a 400 firebird.
I wish the plate i am eating off was as clean as that Firebird engine compartment
Lol
The body style of the 1969 Firebird is one of my all time favorites.
Yes, it looks roughly like the Camaro, but the front overhang is reminiscent of something like a super bee. It's just a great and so far underrated muscle car.
@@manofweed1 Pony cars are NOT muscle cars.
lol 😂
All these comments about these cars being modified the Ram 1V came out of factory stock at 400hp!
Love that 68 but, prefer a 67 cause of the small window. Kinda works like a/c lol…
Looks like an even start, the Firebird just had more grunt.
I love how many commenters make broad, sweeping conclusions from one race. It's very easy (well, it is if you know what you're doing) to make a car a lot faster without any obvious visible changes. Not to take anything away from this Firebird, but no showroom stock 400 Firebird would run twelves. As for the Mustang, this one is really pretty quick. I remember bracket racing my daily driver 340 Barracuda at the drag strip back in the mid-70s, saw a 428 Cobra Jet Torino run low 16's. Was that typical? Hell, no. But I did laugh.
Lol my cousin had a 67 chevelle s.s. L78 4 speed, his favorite car to jump on was torino cj's they just couldn't understand how that 396 would beat them every time I guess they should have checked that code to find out theL78 was a vette motor.
Pure stock makes allowances for 50+ year engines, starting with them being bored over, upping a point in compression, slightly different heads, etc. No, they weren't that fast stock back then, but they do what they can within reason which is pretty close actually. Hell, you're not even allowed to have headers in pure stock.
MUCH rarer to see the coupe body with the 428 !!
We have some video coming of an original paint, low mileage R code 68.5 Mustang GT Coupe ! Thanks for watching !
Not surprised. The '68 Firebird Ram Air ll barely lost against a '69 Ram Air IV GTO Judge. Put a 428 Pontiac against a 428 Ford. The 428 Pontiac would shame it. I know from experience with the 428 in my '70 GTO.
Kevin Manning, no GTO ever came stock with a 428 from the factory.
@@sergeantmasson3669 I know, what a shame. Royal Bobcat was putting 421's and 428's into GTO's.
@@kevinmanning4880 I know all that. I've owned a classic/vintage vehicles restoration business for almost 36 years. Our specialty is high-performance vehicles.
I love Pontiac and Ford but when the two meet at the strip I'm rooting for pontiac.
The old" lead sled" but set up right they were pretty quick they really didn't deserve that nickname
Pontiac all day every day!
When ever I beat someone with my 68 GTO street racing ,they always said I had NOS. I'd pop the hood and no NOS, they said it was in the roll bar, Motor was 455, with Ram Air IV, #614, 520 lift solid cam Single plan warrior 850 and headers. 3800LB car with 456 gear, ran 11.17 ET 121 mph with mufflers shifting @ 5500, Auto with Art Carr stall of 2500.Ford ,Chevy, Mopar always get but hurt when ya Drag their ass and they "AWAYS" have an excuse. And if the Ford would have RED lite he would still LOSE!!! I've been beat plenty of times, but I never whined about it , IT'S just a race ,besides all drag racers are liars except me and you, and I ain't sure about you
@@dennistaylor5052 those cars were beast back in the day and they'd beat almost anything except for the big block LS6 cars
@@jonathanlawson4667 Ever who left 1st would win... 1970 LS6 (454cu in) 13.44 1970 Hot Rod Mag...1970 GTO (400cu in)13.37 1970 Hot Rod Mag
@@dennistaylor5052 well we aren't talking about perfect conditions here and driver and weight tires etc etc play a factor in those times just because a article says that doesn't mean it's true
@@dennistaylor5052 what facts?? You obviously don't race buddy where's your facts?? What I just stated is facts
I'll take either one ☺️
Pontiac does it again!
No way the firebird is stock,I know the cobra jet was sleeping at the tree but something is wrong here,I've literally seen these two race before with far different results.love both of them!
In the 90s I had a 67 Firebird 400....all original but no ram air....at same time I had a 69 Charger RT with 440...the Charger felt faster after 40mpg.....Firebird faster from the dig....both beautiful all originals...sold them each for $8000....uggg
Too bad the Mustang driver didn't have an alarm clock to WAKE HIM UP so he could make it to the race!
Good race, but makes me wonder why they discontinued Pontiac? Thumb up.
"Stock" classic muscle cars tend to run quicker today than they did back when they were new. Probably because it's pretty impossible to find a truly stock one that's not in a museum. At the very minimum their engines are balanced and blueprinted.
My favorite car of all time, the 1967 Pontiac Firebird 400.
The mustang reaction time was lethargic!! Driver mod needed.
loved this RT/TV..wasn't this the SCJ RAM AIR 428..was an option i believe..awesome firebird..can watch your video's all day.
Just a note : In 1968 -1969 the Cobra Jet Mustangs won just about everything that could be won in the world of drag racing.
112 in the quarter that bird was tuned as well as it could be and probably reworked the carb a bit. That is about as good as it gets.
NONE of the cars competing in this so-called "pure stock class" are "factory stock". But don't take my word for it, you can look up the rules & see I am correct. They really should re-name it the "mod/stock class". And anyone who knows can tell you, if you enter this class running a purely stock engine just the way it left the factory.......you're gonna lose. So most of these guys take every advantage they can, according to the rules.
Pontiacs rule. Like my 66 tempest. Pulled the stock 326 and replaced it with a all aluminum 482 with KRE warp 6 heads. I love smoking hellcats.
Kukamunga Phobia, doubtful that you could beat a 2018 Demon Hellcat. Those cars could run 9's right out of the showroom.
Firebird wins by 0.66 sec's, but the Mustang was notably slow off the start, maybe 0.15-0.2 secs. I thought it would have been closer although I did like the Firebird engine. Someone posted its body was alot lighter, I would have guessed the Mustang to be a bit lighter at least in the production build, but this is why I love drag racing, you never know. Great racing to both cool cars!
That looked like a Ram Air 2 400 in the Firebird. An Air-2 (only available for a couple months beginning late March 1968) will easily trailer an Air-3 and will give an Air-4 a close race.
Yes indeed. A RA II was a potent engine and became the RA IV. Both had round port heads and the advertised HP was much lower than the actual HP. Sleeper City!
Vacuum advance on the CJ appeared to not be connected. Strange.
Jesus christ that firebird rippled the tarmac
Vaya el Firebird Pontiac de 1968 Bro
But mine was a Mach one mustang I love the Pontiac
1 of only 243 built,pretty rare CJ !!!!
You gots to learn how to holeshot if your gonna race fellas!
Probably not stock
That wasn't just "any" RA firebird, it was a RAII. Very rare, and tuned well. (Missing the 3rd pedal tho). :)
WOW, my 2020 Tesla Model Y LR AWD with the Performance Boost upgrade runs a 12.4x.
Neither factory stock I lived those days way back.
Plymouth roadrunner hahahahhahaha NOPAR LOSER
THE TROLL Bet you ate frogs when your mom let you.
Plymouth roadrunner You correct in part. Those cars had that much potential in those days but how often did you find a flow bench at an engine builder? Chassis dyno? Computer aided engine dyno? Just to find an exhaust analyzer in those days was huge and if anyone could use it. Notice the Mustang has no hose on the vacuum advance. How many guys in 1969 knew about that? How many guys went to the trouble of sorting the suspension out, doing things like grinding the teeth off the inner bushings and leaving the bolts loose but lock tightened in so they have no resistance to movement but is still safe at speed? Notice the Mustang front shock mounts flipped upside down for more travel? Tires have come a looong ways. So yes, I believe these cars are quite capable of these times in stock form. The potential was always there, how far did you go with your ride in those days?
So did I.....and you're DEAD WRONG. These times are incredibly TYPICAL for both cars. Nothing more than sticky rubber required to get these times vs the magazine article times taken on skinny bias ply. This series allows for better rubber even as it stops short of allowing over sized slicks.
You are thinking 60s tires and track......Not the case today
Yep, just what I thought.
Does the term "wipeout" ring a bell?🏁
Ah…..the Firebird red lighted. NHRA stock eliminator this is no contest. And it ain’t the Firebird winning. This is nothing but nostalgic fun.
Great video..thank you..2thumbs up ..
I cannot believe that 400 beat that 428
That poncho was ready to go- the pony horse wanted to graze on the car show grass.
In racing the fastest car doesn't always win 🤔
Pontiac has never had high lift cams, 412, 413 with 1.5 R.R., 520lift with the 1.62, or 1.65 R.R.,, the fully machined combustion chamber,, designed for torque, and a cam with some duration was the top end torque pulling!! even it out,, Camaro 11:1 427ci. put a stock 390hp. 428 HO,, Now line them up!!! TORQUE RULES!!!
Firebird had to have nitrous. No 400 bird ever ran like that.
@freddyfuqward Never say his comment. I talk as a former owner 68 🔥 bird, M-22, 70 455, 4.56, that ran low 12's.
@@nickdulak1837 My old '57 Ford 2 dr Custom sedan would put that '68 turd back on the trailer. Low 10's all day long and sometimes a few high 9's. De-stroked Ford 427 engine. NHRA record holder 3 times.
A scj mustang/cougar will mop the floor with any firebird all day, every day. What class is this, pure stock or super stock?
This is pure stock or sometimes called factory stock. They are allowed a .070 overbore, a 1.5 compression bump over stock advertised, and a 2 1/2" exhaust upgrade. Other than that, all stock components, casting numbers, must be used, no porting allowed, and they must run on stock size OEM tires. Just good engine assembly, a lot of tuning, and practice driving is what you are seeing. See my explanation above as to why the SCJ's aren't quite as advantageous as other platforms in this class of racing. I own both a RA bird and an SCJ mustang and I can honestly say from experience, given the rules, the SCJ's are at somewhat of a disadvantage. Ford dropped the ball on these engines when it cam to camshaft selection (too small for the displacement, basically just used the 390 cams) and the exhaust manifolds are very restrictive, a far cry from the earlier manifolds used on 406/427 FE's from the early 60's. Not to mention in this particular example the RA bird is likely a tad lighter than the FE ford.
Anthony Tomaro That's what a 'FART' engine would be good for, a power mop Lmao!
Knew the Pontiac would smoke it..and how much Collier it looks engine included
To those new to Drag racing, the comments below is what's known as Bench Racing. To be more precise, it's genuine full blown Piss'n contest, it's what Men have done since we stood up right and discovered we could Run Who's Faster!!! Nothin' better than Pee'n on some tires. It's almost as fun as Racing, ALMOST
When they opened the hood on that 'FART' it kinda looked like a stack of junk in the corner of someone's garage Lmao!
Another GM pole Smoker!!
Tim Reichert, I have a shaker hood ram-air system on my Mustang. Bring on the best pure stock Chevturd that you own, and I'll put it back on the trailer.
I’m 74 and bone stock 428 mustangs did not run 12:60s back in the day period!
Mustang driver sleeping at the light no doubt about it if they would have both left at the same time the mustang would have beaten the Pontiac!!! #Blue Oval Nation
You don’t know much about drag racing. The clock starts when the car starts moving. The Mustang was clocked and it was significantly slower than the Firebird. If they left at exactly the same time the Pontiac would’ve won by 7 car lengths and 5 MPH.
Those "ram air" can't possibly add any manifold pressure.
Any air going in the scoop will just exist the usual aircleaner intake.
It was really just for cold air induction.
@@barcrrt850 right, a better source, non-heated air. RA engine had more important things going for it.
No damn way is that Fireturd stock.
Pontiac #1
It was definatly the mustng drivers fault here , should have a spanked the bird
Not a stock motor in the Firebird. The intake and carburetor for one. The Mustang looked bone stock. lm not a Ford guy but keep it fair.
The Pontiac was definitely not stock , the 400 ram air was a great engine to be sure , but the cobra jet would eat it alive in a true stock vs stock race.
Wrong. The 1968 Ram Air 2 Firebird was about 2 tenths quicker than a 428 CJ Mustang. You need to learn the difference between the 3 different Ram Air options.
@@timsharpe3498 Yeah Tim!
Right on !
I only both of them cars back in the '70s and the mustang was much faster just saying
Not really a surprise.
Firebird- stock- ha . Throw enough money at it, anything can be made run. A 12.6 stock Firebird- not happening.
Dang! That firebird's top end--112 MPH; that Ram Air motor is breathing well.....I thought the 428 would overtake him...
Mega Spoiler on the video's picture
mustang distributor advance disconnected out of timing ,trans downshift linkage probably adjusted wrong bogging engine ,needs setup right
Vacuum advance doesn’t do anything at wide open throttle. It’s useless in a race.
PONCHO POWER!!!
Firebird was a beast Mustang was a pig🤣
A little longer and the 428 runs him down. But, in the 1/4, the 400 wins all day long.
Sherry Setliff A little longer and that ugly stack of odds and ends that make up the 428 gets blown through the oil pan and all over the strip.
Still take the 428
B00steDevil Yeah looks don't matter, you have a kind soul.
Firebird jumped the light lol
Are you saying the Firebird "red lighted"? Nope. Just a better reaction time.
Lol I know I was just joking.
Michael Johnson No prob, Michael. Have a great Thursday!
Cobra got murdered.
hashhashim2211, NOT a Cobra Mustang, dummy.
No 400 ran 12,s without a lot of work.Also Ford used the 4:10 and chevy and Pontiac used 4:11
+Kate Savers No Firebirds run 11's in Pure Stock class, but they do in F.A.S.T.
Rick Mahoney's Blue RA II Firebird does - Pure stock > Best of 11.18 @ 122 mph- his White RA II Runs low 10's in F.A.S.T. :)
I can assure you that none of them cars ran 11's in pure stock form I no there is lots of videos that say pure stock drag races watch the muscle car shoot out on here they the top cars from the era in pure stock form and only a couple hit in the mid to high 13's
In 86-87 Jim Mino's Stock Stroke 68 RA II 400 Firebird ran mid 12's @ 109 mph @ The Supercar Showdown - check out the videos on UA-cam :)
have any of you yet to check out dream car garage muscle car shoot out ?
Not everyone knows how to drag race lol
Look close, firebird left when light wasn't green yet.
Jeff Rogers IT WAS STILL FASTER................DIPSHIT
THE TROLL I'M.... SO SORRY.....WILL.... YOU.... EVER FORGIVE.... ME?......
THYE TROLL never forgives. hahhahahahahahaha
Lol
He didn't "red light". Just based upon the timing lights and speed, he was going to win no matter what.
No way would the Firebird beat that Mustang!! Ameteur driver!!
Ram Air II was one of the fastest cars offered that year. Round port head motor. Lotta power...
Will Butter look att the time and speed....asswipe lol
No way...LOL
Altimgamr, do you even own a car? All I seen on your page is you liking everyone else shit.
I think he has an altima, which is kind of ironic that he's talking trash on 300hp+ stock cars in a car that barely manages 100hp.
@@briand2195 Try again. Nissan Alima 3.5 V6 is no slouch.
Fords and Slopars always get their ass beat by Ponitac's!!!
Another dreamer!!
RealRavenCorps, you delusional much?
ford looses again. is there a video of a ford winning on this site? answer is no. well yes when 2 shit fords are racing.
tamapalagi your evidently dilusional or drunk. 427 sideoiler, boss 429, 427 cammer. poncho never had anything that would touch one of these. your only watching your fanboy GM videos.
Mike Burks fords are junk, how many different engines do they need? That 428 looked like a stack of garbage with the hood open.