Jodorowsy & Moebius - THE INCAL - Review/Analysis
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- Опубліковано 8 січ 2022
- / livingtheline
Sean is introduced to the greatest European comic of all time, The Incal, and immediately realizes where everything he knows came from.
The Incal
www.amazon.com/Incal-Omnibus-...
Strange Death of Alex Raymond
www.amazon.com/Strange-Death-...
Carson Grubaugh
carsongruba...
Sean Robinson/Living The Line
www.livingtheline.com/
Living The Line intro animation produced by Matt Battaglia
mattjbatt?...
So much to unpack in this one and another excellent vid. I agree with most of the criticisms with how the visuals and story shifted between the first chapter and the last. As Moebius turned down working on the next Incal volume and that Jodorowsky was very displeased with the work Moebius did on what was to be the final 3rd volume - After the Incal, which was never finished and reworked into Final Incal - it was clear Moebius had mentally moved on well before he was done with the project. I find it more interesting when creators are able to stay so consistent over the course of a multi-year project; consider that Akira started in 1982 and ended in 1990 and compare it to The Incal which ran between 1981 and 1987, albeit much less consistently. However, I do think some of this is due to Moebius' general influences and his amalgamation of styles across such a varied body of work.
A huge part of understanding Moebius is to look at the work of JIJÉ (Joseph Gillain) and the works printed in the Franco-Belgian magazine Spirou, a comic anthology that was started in the late 30s due to the success of Tintin and the French weekly comics magazine Le Journal de Mickey. JIJÉ was a force in the Franco-Belgian cartoonist movement, starting comedy-themed strips in the tradition of Tintin in the pages of Spirou and the first widely known European Western strip, Jerry Spring, from which you can plot a direct line to Blueberry. JIJÉ was also unique as he was one of the first Franco-Belgian cartoonists who were producing work in both the Ligne Claire style, like Tintin, and in a more realistic style, seen in Jerry Spring; he even went on to create a unique blending of styles and set up a studio and pseudo-school where he mentored other cartoonists, one of his later students being Moebius.
Another interesting connection here is that this style JIJÉ created had a revival in the 80s and one of the artists at the forefront of this movement was Yves Chaland, the credited colorist on The Incal and consistent contributor to Spirou magazine during the time of JIJÉ. He was also a student of JIJÉ.
With Moebius, I think it's hard to pin down a direct point of influence beyond exposure to various Franco-Belgian comics solely due to his ability to visualize unique, fantastical worlds and translate those internal images to the page. But it is clear that he did embrace the ideology of JIJÉ and the blending of "simple line" cartooning and the more rigorous pursuit of realism in pen and ink. It's clearly seen in his depiction of hard surface structures and technology designs compared to the designs of Anima and Deepo, and then the mix present in the design of DiFool and The Metabaron. It's hard to definitively call out direct influences without the commentary of the artists; look at the early Tif & Tondu strips by Fernand Dineur done in the late 30s in Spirou magazine and you will see a clean-line version of R. Crumb, panel after panel. I have no idea if that similarity is actual influence or simple coincidence.
I have seen that aborted Final Incal and remember thinking it was alright. Jose Ladronn's work on the reworked version is amazing, though, so no complaints there!
The Jije influence IS Blueberry in the beginning, 100% I haven't seen Jije's non-western works but the mix of realism and clear-line makes sense. That also connects the dot on the Milt Caniff lineage that Sean picked up on, Jije looking like a slightly more realistic Caniff, to my eyes.
Chaland is a badass all in his own right. Didn't know he was the colorist here. He deserves a load of the credit for how amazing this book is.
"This is where plot-wise I thought the thing gets kinda weird" -- lmao
I mean, overall I think it is pretty straight forward. But it enters self-cancelling territory at the end.
@@clubgrubbug I mean-- the plot's wrap-up is right up there with love being the answer in the 5th element
Have you read "Edena"? Not that knowing the ending really kills anything, but it has that loop as well. It's IMHO a much more beautiful book too.
I was curious about influences on Moebius, so I posted in a FB discussion group. A lot of the members are French or French speakers, so they have a lot of insights that we miss or are limited from in the English speaking sphere. Moebius did a long interview with Numa Sadoul (this has been announced to be published by Dark Horse as a part of the Moebius Library, but it has been delayed numerous times). Anyway, apparently Moebius mentioned in that interview several artists as influences/inspirations: Virgil Finlay, Hogarth, Will Elder, Hal Foster, Chester Gould, and Schultz (this, honestly, was one of the most suprising ones to me. I just don't see it?).
One poster wrote: "Doré, Remington, Joseph Gillain (his mentor) were the most famous ones. He loved historical illustrators that proliferated in the pages of publications from Hachette in France, in the '40s and '50s. Someone mentioned Virgil Finlay --true. He cited several Orientalists as well; the usual suspects. He loved Mad Magazine, especially was influenced by those cartoonists when he drew for Hara Kiri. He loved R. Crumb."
And the cherry on top? Two of the French speakers mentioned Moebius specifically mentioned Milton Caniff, particularly for his Blueberry work.
Sean, you are so damned good!
Crumb makes a lot of sense, but I never would have gone there just because of the sci-fi.
Thank you for sharing this. Sorry your interview has yet to be printed, it sounds great. Do you know all what they plan to publish with that library? It seemed to stall out after Edena and Inside Moebius.
@@clubgrubbug At first I thought I didn't hit enter to finish the reply to this earlier but now I wonder if the link is having it hit as "spam" by YT since a second attempt at posting it has vanished. It's not my interview, it was done in the 1970s and onward, I think. I'd post the link to the Dark Horse website (it's revised to be expected July or August 2022 from a previous delay to December 2021). But, posting the link seems to make an algorithm unhappy.
I think the delay on this book is supply chain related issues. But, regarding the stall out, there are many rumors that the Moebius estate is difficult to deal with. I have no personal knowledge if that is true, but DH's Moebius Library hasn't lived up to what many hoped (yet! crossing fingers!). I also suspect the lack of reprints has to do with rights issues among many creators - the bane of so many reprints. But, Moebius's work seems readily available in the French market. It is unfortunate, most everything he worked on is out of print now and is absurd on the collector market.
@@bwinzer1 YT alwaya deletes links to anything outside of YT.
It is a real shame. I would fork over good money for a complete Moebius library and a complete Blueberry.
Hey Bryan! Thanks for the incredible comment and all of the great info. And thank you VERY much for digging up these relationships, including what at the time I thought was a left-field instinctual reaction (the Caniff observation). As we've struggled with on a lot of these videos, sometimes something is a clear influence, other times it's just an interesting example of similar solutions being derived from the same problems, independent from each other. But in the case of Caniff, I see a lot of Moebius' European peers who seem to have derived DIFFERENT but equally strong Caniff influences, so that seemed an easier connection to make.
Fun but a little scary to go into a discussion like this "cold", without any research of background knowledge. I never know how that will read to someone more schooled in that particular book or artist. But very gratified that you enjoyed this video. Wondering which Moebius or Jodorosky work we'll hit next...
BTW the Moebius estate has allegedly asked for very high advances on royalties, which is apparently what has kept books trickling out at the rate that they have. At least, that was the case a decade or so ago. They (quite rightly) see him as a genius and visionary, a rockstar cartoonist, and want to be compensated accordingly, despite the small size of the US market.
If you watch videos, or look at pictures of Moebius' drawing space? You will see that he uses Magic Color acyrlic dyes/paints. They are inexpensive to buy online, and they really give you that Moebius-quality to your colouring.
Do you have any video recommendations? We would love to do an LTL Reacts to some Moebius drawing!
Great insight in all your read-thrus :)
Thank you, Joe!
Very cool video, very interesting to see you analyzing the art of Moebius.
In terms of influences he looked into many artists.
Mainly, for his Blueberry works he was influenced by Jijè, which as well was heavily influenced in his realistic work, by Caniff.
As time progressed, even in Blueberry, Giraud got more and more interest in realism, so, anatomies evolved to being more well proportioned, and so on, while volumes became more and more stressed through hatching (especially after he became Moebius) another hige influence is clearly Jack Davis. In his early works before Blueberry. there is a more humor cartooning style where you can see how he was influenced by the Mad magazine artists like Davis, Elder, so on.
Also great american illustrators were an influennce, like Remington and other western illustrators, Rockwell...
Then as Moebius he was influenced by art in general, especially Dorè, and i noticed influenced even from engravings from 1400 Netherland artists then as for comics a huge influences are Windsor Mc Cay, Crumb, Hergè, Finlays illustrations, some Corben, and yes, also his friends Drullet and Mezieres.
Another important thing to notice is that while his Blueberry style referenced onto Jijè and traditional France BD, his Moebius style referenced also in fine art drawing, too, so it's not unusual to say he looke also into Raffaello, Leonardo and other classic Renaissance artists, Preraphaelites, Dorè as well as some modern artists and Japanese art too.
In terms of drawings, Moebius varies alot his style from period to period and from work to work too.
In the Incal, he shows mainly a more cartoon style.
It's like a sort of "commercial Moebius style" a bit like the Gir style was his more commercial (but very accomplished and complex) style for France comics, before becoming Moebius.
At the start its more elaborated style with hatching then as story progresses becomes more and more polished. You reference Miller and Simonson and that's it, in that part of the volume he goes for an even more simplified - american comic book style and page layout.
In the initial part of his Moebius career (Arzack, Airtight Garage, other short stories) tough you can notice how he was more realistic in anatomies and proportions with lots of hatching and details. Sometimes he went into grotesque sometimes cartoon. Then, after some year he simplified alot, became sometimes more cartoonish, sometimes more Hergè, made less use of hatching, going for a clean style more and more except for some smaller works.
I always enjoyed ticky, hatchey Moebius and Gir the best. Later Buleberry and early Moebius are my faves.
Moebius' short story work even arzach predates ronin by quite a bit. Also im pretty sure he's callled out virgil finlay at some point
The Incal does as well, but that very peculiar way of drawing technology isn't in Incal until later. Definitely no tech in Arzach. I am curious if someone can peg a particular source.
Or, did Miller take the Moebius thing, exaggerate it in Ronin, and then Moebius stole the exaggertaion back in the later Incal stuff?
@@clubgrubbug I was thinking of that one arzach where you only see him at the end on a monitor but on closer inspection it wasnt what you were talking about. The earliest i can find moebius using the technique besides here is on " upon a star" from epic from '87. you might be onto something, unless they both saw something else of course.
He may have even seen it while he was doing a stint in hollywood in between tron and he-man
@@naterhodes6211 I am also on board for it coming from somehwere else, too. Just surprised by the dates
26:20 do you think Moebius is tapping into his friend Druillet with the spider page
Yes and I can't believe we made ittl through the whole thing without a name check! Criminal
@@LivingtheLine Yes and I wonder if Druillet was where some of that tech look came from?
@@LivingtheLine just means you'll have to do a Druillet video or two to make up for it. Titan are reprinting his work, though with some flaws. At risk of a scolding from yourselves I'd take flawed reprints (Druillet) over no reprints in the foreseeable future (Moebius)
@@liamschulzrules Any reprints are better, for sure. I will keep an eye out for those reprints. My memory of Druillet is that I kind of enjoyed the art, but really did not enjoy the stories, so a second look is definitely in order.
I thought I saw Druillet's spirit in some of this as well.
Regarding the color - this Humanoids edition has three colorists involved: Yves Chaland, Isabelle Beaumeney-Joannet, and Zoran Janjetov. That might help explain some of the later color choice shifting? I'm in a reading group where we are reading and discussing The Incal, and Janjetov chimed in on working the color (I believe he worked on books 5 and 6, so the end of the book) - he is very insistent that the original Marvel/Epic printing is the best coloring. Here are his words: "The first version was much more lively, with the little guys in glaring primary colors, but then Moeb walked in and insisted on harmony, and I killed the saturation. Then Jean Perre Dionnet (the founder of Metal Hurlant) saw it and said it was sad..."
Still, the colors look the best in the old Marvel/Epic softcovers, no earlier or later edition, from any country can match their print job (I've got dozens, from all over the planet...)"
Also, we were just wrapping up discussing the Incal when your video came out (and was posted there). I didn't realize you guys had done so much with the channel post SDOAR KS! I've got so much to dive into! Exciting!
So Moebius was against the initial colors? That is sad. They are amazing. He is a fantastic colorist himself.
I am pretty happy with the Humanoids version I have. I would have to see the old Marvel ones in person to see the difference. Anything but those godawful early 2000's recolors.
@@bwinzer1 Glad you are enjoying what you are finding. We have been having a lot of fun and are being honored with a lot of really cool guests and new friends.
Okay Carson has to do a comic strip now called Doofy Dutch Guy lol #cancelled
Also, i think the real thing about this story is, more than being about the duality of good and evil/ dark and light, its about the sacred and the profane, and how they are interconnected-as revealed in the act of procreation-which, while sustaining the good in humanity over generations, also tempts humanity towards self-destructive behavior, when lust is expressed in an inverted or socially destructive way (re:SDOAR lol)
Also I kinda feel like, more than checking out, the narrative required an intensifying simplicity. The point veing the visual expression of abstract concepts , and the rhythm of time and space changing, coming to a still point. I think, being that his style is in its very essence understated, he probably made an artistic decision to rudimentarize (?) things. Idunno, almost suspect the final pages had some layout input by Jodo himself? To ensure the concepts were expressed properly? I found it effective, anyway. (I literally just finished reading it for the first time just before you uploaded this!)
@@abuharam Cool that you just read it. I think a lot of my gripes with the art is more how the coloring ruins the simplicity than the simplicity itself. If it had been colored like some of the other earlier diagrammatic pages it probably would have worked better.
And, I still find the big golden godhead a bit of a visual cop out. I do suspect that was Jodo rather than Moebius. Moebius seems more inventive than that.
Procreation definitely makes sense. Jodorowsky is obsessed with that in all of his works. I still struggle with the battling-the-darkness-with-the-light and then having the androgyne be the balance of the two. If the star-child had been totally white before, consumed the darkness, and become the half-and-half that would have made more sense to me.
I have a big enough nose myself that I can poke fun. Hahaha.
@@clubgrubbug yeah after my most recent comment in this thread it occured to me that Difool is baited on at every turn into right action by his lust for Animah (the anima, i suppose). Hes led by his cock all the way to redemption! Lol...
@@abuharam The Horny Goof🤣😂🤣
Great book, I don't own a copy but I'm planning on blowing a bunch of money on the delux black and white version coming out at the end of the money.
As much as I love black and white books I would seriously consider a colored version. As Sean says, the colors are absolutely gorgeous.
Last time I tried reading The Incal I really couldn't make heads or tails of the story, so, Carson, some of your comments regarding the themes of the story help. Of course it's been a while since I've actually read it, I mostly pull it out to flip through for the art. I did enjoy Sean's realtime reaction to the awful recolor job on it. I wonder how much of the Moebius losing interest towards the end was Moebius working on his own projects, you'd have to look at the timelines but so much of the work collected in those EPIC collections and now in the Dark Horse ones likely were happening concurrently. I also have to imagine that working from a Jodorowsky script for as long as Moebius did for the Incal must have been exhausting.
One of those things that I feel is always missing from translated works of Moebius' is the lettering - I think one of the few examples where we're getting his lettering in English is the Silver Surfer story he did with Stan Lee, the copy I have has a pretty fair amount of backmatter from Moebius detailing his process, which may be interesting to look at sometime, as he seems to consider the lettering to be integral to the page.
It seems weird to me that people find it so baffling. Maybe because they careen from one weird adventure to the next? The general thrust always seemed straight forward to me.
My understanding is that Jodo was more likely to tell the story verbally than he was to write a script? Maybe that changed later on?
I was just looking at that lettering a week ago, while working on Grantman WTF. It is very strange but also so lined up with the art. It is a shame they didn't at least make a digitized version. He does have a problem of letting letters collide that makes it a little hard to look at, in my opinion.
@@clubgrubbug I want to say the only time I read it all the way through I was a senior in college and I likely didn't give that close of a reading, so my impressions on the story are faint recollections from 10 years ago. I have to give it a re-read sometime soon, but I think the trippy-sexual-fantastical element in it that doesn't work for me. At the time I also hadn't read any other European comics, and so maybe my brain wasn't particularly primed for the storytelling style.
@@mattjbatt I can definitely see it being a rough first exposure. Had I read it too young I probably would have WTFed it into the waste bin of my mind.