A couple of other things I love: - In the scene with Robert/Ned when they were talking about "the bastard's mother," Robert was trying to remember the name that Ned had told him (Ned said the woman's name was Wyla...who was actually the wet nurse there when Lyanna had Jon), and the first name Robert said was "Aleena" - Ah-Lee-Na. Love it. - In S7, when Jon and Dany are talking, after Dany tells Jon about her dragons and their names, she mentions something Jon had told Tyrion, and he said something along the lines of "I see you've been talking to Tyrion" and they go on about how he likes to talk and Dany says "We all love doing what we're good at" and Jon says "I don't." Jon, like his dad Rhaegar, is also good at fighting/killing, but he doesn't like it. Again, just love it. :)
Ned didn't want to implicate Cat in this lie because that would've meant that she too had to lie. You never know, that lie might have slipped up somehow, somewhere. Its was much safer for his nephew that NO-ONE knew. Not to mention, (and this sounds harsh) the public hatred that Cat exhibited was very genuinely convincing. People would've never questioned or doubted that Jon wasn't his son.
Yup. Probable deniability. Ned loved his sister and his nephew and he was took NO chances. Of course, Howland Reed knew and im pretty sure BenJen knew as well.
Also he didn't know if he could trust her in the beginning. Hell there were married for a fortnite before he left her, got her pregnant then left for the war
@@cfinley81 Yes, I think Benjen knew, if only based on that vehement 'You're better than NO ONE!" reply when Jon wanted to go with him ranging in Episode 2. I think Ned told Benjen before they parted ways in Episode 1, just in case something happened to any of them.
I don't understand why everyone questions why he didn't tell Cat. If i remember correctly, they were still newly married and she had been set to marry his brother before the Mad King killed him. I don't think that there was a love between them as of yet. But, even if there was a trust, what would people think if Ned's wife easily accepted a bastard into her life and loved him without question? You'd have to think that if Robert or any of the Kings spies had seen Cat being motherly toward Jon, they might wonder why. Her personality is all about loyalty and family, so a constant reminder that her husband was unfaithful would make her jealous and angry. If she was anything other than this, people might get curious. Ned wanted the circle of people that knew the truth to be as small as possible.
@MonsterOfLeon - Ned knows how Cat thinks. He knew that if he ever told Cat the truth, she would eventually UNDERMINE his oath to his sister, by ‘taking matters into her own hands’, without asking for approval (or input) from anyone else. So if Cat knew that King Robert might (literally) kill ALL the Starks... just to kill ONE single baby Targaryen... she DEFINITELY would’ve ‘taken matters into her own hands’ and secretly shipped Jon Snow down to King’s Landing behind Ned’s back... to avoid getting all her other children killed by Robert’s Wrath. We know this is TRUE because Cat did the EXACT same thing to her own son King Robb, when she went behind HIS back to send Jamie to Kings Landing with Lady Brienne... in an attempt to save Arya & Sansa. Cat is way too emotional. She could never be trusted for several YEARS (or possibly DECADES) ... to keep a secret ‘that big’ which might get everyone in her immediate family killed. She would eventually buckle & insist that Ned sacrifice Jon to save her own kids. And if Ned disagreed.... she would go behind his back & do it anyway. (With or without his approval.) Cat is the type to sacrifice one life... to save all the rest. But Ned is the type to ‘protect them all’.... even if it means he has to ‘hide the truth’ from EVERYONE.
The important thing to remember about this video is that it was made after the end of Season 5 - so, BEFORE Jon's parentage was revealed in the show (or in the books for that matter). "R+L=J" was only a theory at the time.
True but the books lay out much better hints and symbolism than the show did. So clever readers have known or at the very least, were pretty sure for awhile
It sucks seeing people who binge the show come back to watch this because it all amounted to basically nothing.. Jon being a Targ held such little relevance to the actual story. He rode a dragon once or twice, thats it
Ned had to wait until Jon was a member of the nights watch to tell him about his parents. That way, since the truth would then be out, Robert wouldn't have been able to do anything to him.
"Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post..." I agree that protecting Jon from Robert was a top priority to Ned. He loved Jon as his own. But a part of me will always wonder if he was also trying to protect the Realm from the chance that Jon or, more importantly, any of his progeny would someday pursue a Targaryen restoration and throw the realm into another civil war. Jon joining the Watch solves everything because he forswears his birthright by taking the Vow at the same time that it removes him from Robert's reach.
@D-Ice's baby brother Lol yeah Ned knew he was a Targaryen. He might not have known that Rhaegar and Lyanna got married, but when he found Lyanna he knew that it was Rhaegar that had "taken" her. She even tells him in the 6x10 reveal, "If Robert finds out, he'll kill him, you know he will" And with Dany, Ned was in the same situation. Be loyal to his best friend who likes killing Targaryen children, or try and protect her the same way he did for Jon, knowing that Jon and Dany were related.
@@MFBloosh I think Ned may have concluded that R and L married when Lyanna told him the baby's name was Aegon Targaryen - I don't think she would have said that if it weren't true.
@@pamenadee9717 Yeah you're right. She never was able to explain the situation, but her saying Jon's real name would've gave it away that Rhaegar and Lyanna were wed.
@D-Ice's baby brother I don't think he was symphathetic to Targaryens' political cause, but I strongly believe he resented and - rightfully - feared Robert's hatred and didn't want to feed into it.
George Lucas actually was on set during filing of episode 1 season 8. Check out the behind the scenes for that. He admires the show and it’s story immensely. Your comparison is actually very accurate.
I think the problem with the binge is that you don't have the time to process the information very well . But I must say you pick some stuff that i pick after watching two or three times. You are really a great reactor
Thank god you guys posted something in the meanwhile. The starvation between episodes is horrible, as much as it is between seasons. Dont leave us without content :(
Ned barely knew Cat when they got married. She was supposed to marry his older brother before the mad king killed him. They got married, had one night together (where she got pregnant with Rob) and then he left for war, literally the next day. So why would he share his sister's last secret with a woman he barely knew. Later when they grew to love each other, people would've asked questions if she'd suddenly started behaving differently to Jon. Catlin Stark was not subtle and she jumped to conclusions and made rash decisions a lot. Ned couldn't take that chance.
Thanks for your explanation. I knew the first part but could never figure out why he wouldn't confide in her later, they were clearly shown as a very loving and trusting couple. But that sort of makes sense too.
It doesn't matter if he 'barely knew her,' Cat is his *wife* and she deserved to not spend her entire life with the embarrassment, anger and hurt over her husband bringing home a bastard kid. This was something that was *rarely* ever done, *especially* raising the kid amongst your trueborn sons. I get *why* Ned felt he had to keep the secret, but I'm tired of Ned's understandable reasons, be also used as a reason why Cat is wrong for feeling the way she did. *Especially* when you consider the fact that Catelyn is a woman. In their society, women don't really get to choose what happens to them, so she is set to marry Ned, she can't just walk away or divorce without losing a great deal for herself and her trueborn child. You expect her to just sit down and eat her food silently, while she is being disrespected in her own home? Would you say the same for any woman today who has to face their husband having cheated on them and brought home the child of that infidelity? No? Then don't act like it's any different here, because it's not.
@@roseofthegarden_ I do see your point, and I've always thought it was a little bit weird. More a "ok, nobody can know and there has to be a reason for Jon to leave the family" thing. But I can understand how Ned would have reasoned it safer not to tell, even after their relationship had evolved. It would have been a hell of a risk to tell anyone, not only for Jon but for them too. And I do understand completely why Cat never accepted Jon and how difficult it was for her. I think Michelle Fairley played it wonderfully, just in the right side of the line, bringing in Cat's complex feelings.
Garden Rose She should have been mad at her husband, not the child. It’s not a child’s fault for being born or brought home. How was she “being disrespected” in her own home? It’s not her home. It’s her Lord husband’s home and his heir after him. She lucky. She could have ended up in a much worse situation.
@Captain Levi's Page GRRM said in his 60 Minutes interview this past Sunday that the major plot points of the final season will match the books. The only difference will be what goes on with the secondary characters. Jon has always been a major character.
Ned didn't tell Cat because Ned's brother Bran was supposed to Marry Cat but died. Ned then married Cat and soon after went of to war. Ned didn't know Cat that well at the time he brought Jon home. Also Cat was so honorable that if she heard anyone say Ned was a cheater, it may have slipped out if she lashed out in defense of Ned's honor.
Twenty years later, Ned still hadn't told her. I think he recognized she didn't have it in her to lie convincingly. As Jaime said, she was an honest woman... so honest she couldn't see past her own honorable intentions, resulting in some really poor judgement calls -- especially when it involved her kids. Two examples: 1) She kidnaps Tyrion and puts him on trial, despite the fact her husband and two girls are in Kings Landing which is controlled by the Lannisters! and 2) She releases Jaime (Robb's prisoner) in the hopes of negotiating for her two daughters, never mind that it weakens their position and creates discord in their camp. All in all, I think, sufficient evidence to show that if Cat had known about Jon's true parentage, she wouldn't have hesitated to try and use it as a bargaining chip with Joffrey/Cersei.
I don't think Cat would have that slip of a tongue. Ned would've told her how imperative it was to keep it a secret and Cat is smart enough to realize the precariousness of the situation. Not to mention her own kids could be in danger with this kind of secret, so she'd never. I just cannot see Cat doing anything to put them in jeopardy.
The best part of this video is it was made before (all of these clips are from the first five seasons) there was any official confirmation of Jon's parents. The hints are more clear in the books, but once you know to look for it, the foreshadowing is amazing. But it's *very* hard to pick up on it during your first watch.
I think the Star Wars analogy is excellent. It illustrates the difference and the huge advantage to a story being conceptualized by one creator rather than the story-by-committee method Hollywood seems to employ so often these days.
Just paused really quick to respond to you’re comment on saying that you wish Ned told Cat. Take a few minutes to look at her actions throughout her time on the series. She would’ve quickly given the secret up to protect her own. She made multiple rash decisions and she does have a quick temper (taking Tyrion, letting Jamie go, etc). He was wise not to. I know that he loved her and we love her, but it was best.
@@kmjkmjkmj Jaimie killed two of Rickard Karstark's sons. One at the battle of the Whispering Woods. And the other escaping from his cell. So as much as I don't condone killing the Lannister boys I do understand them wanting to kill the Kingslayer.
@@kmjkmjkmj She did it behind Robb's back, which showed her lack of judgment and lack of insight. Jaime was a valuable hostage. Like Robb said, Jaime played her like a fool. If Jaime had to be protected from angry Karstarks, she could have gone to Robb and ask him to secure his cell.
In season 7 there was a leak of the entire season, which in general turned out to be true. Even the leaks that were left on the cutting room floor, seem to pan out to be the truth. One of these leaks had Beric giving Jon, after he supposedly died again, the "last kiss of R'hllor". Now we know in the book he gave his last kiss to Lady Stoneheart (too long to explain to you Sean you'll have to look this one up). Anyhow in the leak Beric supposedly gave his life for Jon. This had me thinking... Since Beric is already dead in the books, and it's Lady Stoneheart that lives, it would seem like a perfect (yet very sad) full circle ending for her character, if SHE is the one to give Jon the last kiss. Jon finally receiving a mother's love from the only "mother" he knew. :'(
Props to Sean Bean for knowing this in s1 and keeping it quiet. It gets even more interesting because we learn Ned survived the sword fight against Arthur Dayne when Howland Reed stabbed.him in the back. Ned finds Jaime sitting on the throne his sword in the mad kings back and brands him with the Kingslayer title that haunts him and tarnishes him. He hears it and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy as he grows into this guarded shell hiding insecurity behind the narcissistic persona until humbled/inspired through Brienne who reminded him of his ambitions hed had before the night hed saved Kings Landing's millions from burning to death by choosing to do the thing that was hard/right over his honor. When he approaches Ned each time In S1 he only tries to impress him and gain approval of sorts. Ned never sees past it and never really listens I think because it reminded him of his darkest secret on a day he relives in nightmares.
Sean, you haven’t been paying attention close enough. Ned could NEVER tell Cat about John Snow because Ned KNEW ‘how Cat thinks’. He knew that if he ever told Cat the truth about Jon, she would UNDERMINE his lifelong oath to his sister... by ‘taking matters into her own hands’, without asking for his approval (or any input) from anyone else. So if Cat knew that King Robert’s TEMPER might (literally) kill ALL the Starks... just to kill ONE single baby Targaryen... she DEFINITELY would’ve ‘taken matters into her own hands’ and secretly delivered Jon Snow down to King’s Landing behind Ned’s back... to avoid getting all her other children killed by Robert’s Wrath. We know this is TRUE because Cat did the EXACT same thing to her own son King Robb, when she went behind HIS back to send Jamie to Kings Landing with Lady Brienne... in an attempt to save Arya & Sansa. Cat was waaay too emotional. She could never be fully trusted for several YEARS (or DECADES) ... to keep a secret ‘that big’ which might get everyone in her immediate family killed. She would eventually buckle & insist that Ned sacrifice Jon & give him up to King Robert... just to save her own kids. And if Ned disagreed.... she would’ve gone behind his back & did it anyway. (With or without his approval.) Cat is the type to sacrifice one life... to save all the rest. But Ned is the type to ‘protect them all’.... even if it means he has to ‘hide the truth’ from EVERYONE.
Okay, this is *highkey* bs. I *highly* doubt she'd sacrifice the life of a child, who is the *nephew* of her *husband* and the child of his *beloved late sister* like, why the hell *would* she? She'd have kept the secret, period. I mean, if *anything* Ned kept it from her, in order to make it more realistic looking, because he wasn't sure if she could easily pull off looking upset about an infidelity that she *knew* didn't happen. There's literally nothing that tells us she'd sacrifice her own family-in-law's for her trueborn kids. And why the hell would she be unable to keep a secret *that would put her kids in danger in the first place* again? If you really think she's the type who would fight to the death for her kids (and she is), then it's *far* more logical to believe, that she'd be *quite capable* of keeping this secret as long as she needs to, in order to protect her kids, and the life of her husbands nephew, and her nephew-in-law. Cat didn't like Jon, because she thought he was the child of an infidelity. But had she known he was trueborn extended family? The son of Ned's sweet little sister? There's literally *no reason* why she'd scorn him, or want to give up his life, any more than her own kids.
The one thing I've never understood is how this man, Rhaegar, could be this beautiful, noble, honorable, beloved, etc. man, yet publicy humiliate his wife, then leave her and his two very young children basically to the wolves. He could at the very least have privately sent her home to Dorne safe with her family. Perhaps the books will explain thiis better? I don't think the show will address it. Anyone know if there is some History and Lore on this that I am missing?
I haven't read the books, but from what I've seen people explain, Rhaegar was noble and beloved, but also obsessed with the prophecy about "The Prince that was Promised". I won't go into detail, but you can read everything on the wiki pages about Rhaegar if you don't care about potential spoilers, all the info that is given on him in the books is there. It's never stated clearly why he did anything, but you can have some likely guesses at least. And yeah, I don't think the show will get into that whole story at all sadly.
Aerys did forbid Elia and the children to leave (while he did send Dany's pregnant mother and Viserys to Dragonstone when it looked like the war could be lost), to avoid Dorne changing sides and fighting for Robert instead. They were basically wards at that point, like Theon was. As for Rhaegar, we hear very conflicting things on him, on the one side he was that beloved prince who liked singing, on the other side he knew/should have known that running away with Elia would cause a war with Robert who she was betrothed to, and would bring dishonor to his current wife and children. He even left his pregnant "girlfriend" Lyanna behind to fight and kill her betrothed, Robert and obviously his allies such as Lyanna's family. That makes us think he was either dumb and irresponsible, or just an a'hole who didn't care about anything other than f'cking his crush. But there's another side to it. Rhaegar was obsessed with books and prophecy. He thought he was meant to be the prince that was promised, and his children the 3 heads of the dragon. He even just trained at fighting because of something he read, not because he liked it. It is possible that he somehow (visions? books?) knew about the Army of the Dead and running away with Lyanna for him wasn't about love, but about having a third son, the only one capable of defeating them. And that this boy, the son(g) of ice and fire would be Lightbringer, the "weapon" that would save the world. And maybe he thought that the war of Robert's rebellion and even Lyanna's death (maybe even his own) all was worth it. Like in the story where the hero Azor Ahai did kill/sacrifice his wife to create Lightbringer and defeat the Others.
"The dragon has three heads" is referenced over and over in the books. Rhaegar believed he had to have 3 children to defeat the threat beyond the Wall. (Dany even has a vision of this in the House of the Undying in the books.) The books imply that Elia barely survived the birth of their 2nd child. And Rhaegar and Lyanna hid in Dorne of all places. Would he have taken her there if he didn't have at least some Dornish support? But this prophecy is also what made book readers obsessed with who would ride Drogon, Rhaegal, and Viserion. We followed the clues to Jon pretty quickly, but the 3rd dragon rider is what led to all of the crazy theories about Tyrion (or Jaime and Cersei) also being hidden Targs. Now, at least as far as the show goes, we know the 3rd dragon rider is the Night King.
@@EncryptedBear8 To keep Dorne on his side? ...or Rhaegar??? Many of us believe the Tourney at Harrenhal was planned by Rhaegar supporters (with Rhaegar's knowledge) so that Rhaegar could meet with the major lords of the Realm to discuss how to remove his father as King after he came back from his captivity in Duskendale completely mad. I think Aerys kept Elia and the children as hostages to tie Rhaegar's hands behind his back, as well as Dorne.
A tip for you guys since you’re just getting into reactions. Time is of the essence. No ones gonna care about reacting to an episode a week later when they’ve probably already watched at least 5 other reactions.
Love your reactions and enjoyed the binge immensely but I have to agree - you need to get reactions to the new episodes out within a day or 2 tops. The fastest reactors get them out within hours of airing and for watching reactions along with the show, not many will watch episode 1 reactions after episode 2 airs. Personally ive already watched about 15 episode 1 reactions, and after episode 2 will be watching all the episode 2 reactions, not going back to episode 1.
@@sunsetdreamer68 agree with you completely. I really enjoy Sean's insight and perspective. But come next Sunday, all I'm going to be thinking about is episode 2.
Ned did not confide the secret to anyone because he knew that, eventually, someone would use that information, either to harm Jon or to place him on the throne. And that is exactly what happened now. As soon as Bran and Sam knew it, their logic is that it is best to tell the truth. They will not take Jon's wishes into account. And assuming his true identity will put him at the center of the game. Cersei said it already: When you play the game of thrones, you win or die. There are no middle ground.
This was hidden and spaced out to be more Easter Eggish in the show. It was a growing theory in the 90s with s6 vision being partially given *without reveal* in Neds dreams. It grew to be like 90% faithfully accepted amongst book fans before the show was produced and was cannon when the show finally got to prove Lyannas cause of death. There's a more in depth 5-6 minute story called "Knight of the laughing tree that really expands on a much deeper story that compliments all of this. Just a fun suggestion
Thank you for putting in words what I felt amazed me the most about GoT, which I never manged to describe really well. Now I think I can, with reference to what you said. It really is this psychological aspect of a story that is finished in itself - It just adds so much depth and "realism" to it, for me. Or rather, it destroys it otherwise. I do not want a story that is altered after the fact, as a response to feedback of already aired content - I want to believe I am submerged into a carefully crafted world, where there are human relations and events to discover that may have happened well before the story picked up, that one can speculate and theorize about. Learning that a story is modified after the fact just "spoils" that for you, as you can be sure that there is no "hidden" or "deeper" meaning to anything already aired. For example in Breaking Bad - an otherwise still fantastic series. But AFTER I had finished watching it, I learned that they originally had planned to kill of Jessie at the end of Season 1. And even though he turned out to be my favorite character of the show, it still kinda ruined it to me, because suddenly the story lost it's magic to me. Same thing with Stranger Things. On the other hand, you see with Game of Thrones, the story about Jon Snows mother and Hodor - those storylines were embedded into the very first episodes. And it just adds so much more value to a story, especially when you like to really "jump into it".
Catelyn Stark promised the gods that she would be a mother to Jon if he survived his illness. Then she could not keep that promise. Ned could not take any chances that someone else would feel as obligated to keep this secret. He could only trust himself. Even though there is speculation that Benjen knew, and this is why he took the black.
Regarding Ned not telling Catelyn, they were an arranged marriage so there was no real love and loyalty in the beginning of their marriage. She was supposed to marry his older brother who ended up killed by the mad king. The custom was to marry the next brother/heir to Winterfell so that happened. Very soon after they were married Ned went off to fight in the war against the Mad King. Cat was pregnant with Rob while he was gone but Ned and Cat hadn’t really grown in love at that point so when he came back from the war he didn’t know her enough to trust her with that secret. Even when they did bond over time it wasn’t something he felt he could tell her. Maybe because he knew her instincts idk 😐
OMG I've been watching the Game of Thrones reaction videos on this channel, all the new content being uploaded to the official Game of Thrones UA-cam channel, and Star Wars Celebration and everything being uploaded to the official Star Wars UA-cam channel like, EXCLUSIVELY for the past couple weeks! That's so awesome that Sean uses Star Wars to illustrate his analogy here, about the depths of, "R+L=J," in the GOT universe lol that's how you know you're being spoken to in your, "native language,"; (For lack of a better term.) When sentiments, themes, and events from one Universe are used to describe similar motifs in another, both of which happen to be something you can easily identify and understand. Well done, Sean---Sa 🤜💥🤛
Cat would have totally given it away if she would have known. She can’t keep her emotions in check. And people would have totally gotten suspicious if she was all super nice to her husband’s bastard.
12:50 What your editor said. Also - It was an arranged marriage between Ned and Cat. He hardly knew her at the time and probably didn't trust her enough for a secret of that scale..
Im glad you watced this, for those of us who didnt binge these episodes and didnt read the books- we lived with the R+L=J theory for years. There is definitley alot you can miss from watching too fast
They weren't just, "little conversations," weaved throughout, like the R+L=J video suggests, if you remember, (and especially in a second viewing of all the seasons,) the foreshadowing was weaved throughout with some pretty major events in the overall timeline of the story. Like, Ned stepping down as Robert's Hand of the King, when he demanded Ned oversee Daenerys' murder, opening Ned up to getting assaulted by Jaime outside Littlefinger's Brothel, amongst many others. The whole, "R+L=J," thing has literally helped shape some of the more significant story beats this entire time, it's quite impressive writing! But, you're definitely right about one thing lol no QUESTION Ned should have let Catelyn in on the secret, it would have changed the outcome considerably.👍
I don't know if Sean is going to read this but i hope his editors share it with him. The reason Ned didn't tell Catelyn was 2-fold. He didn't know her well enough to trust her with that secret when they got married. It was an arranged marriage that was agreed to in haste after his elder brother died (who was supposed to marry her). He was not about to spill the most significant secret during the time the whole country was in turmoil about the Monarchy. That was just not in any world a possibility. The 2nd thing is that even after they grew to know and love each other the secret and promise he made to his sister always stayed with him. If he were to tell Catelyn and her feelings toward Jon softened it could bring on unwanted attention. Her hatred for Jon made sense in a way; her husband brought home a bastard child he had with another woman to raise. This is just not done. Most other lords keep their bastards at a distance to spare their wife of the shame/embarrassment of the situation. But Ned bringing Jon home was not questioned strongly because in Neds case people knew Ned to be so Honorable that he wouldn't try to "hide" his shame. And in the event the Catelyn showed caring for Jon it would be very discordant and might draw the eye of suspicious minds...Ned couldn't risk that. Her animosity in a way provided an additional shield for Jon.
As someone who read the books long before the show started airing, I was always surprised how few hints the show gave, and even those were very, very subtle. I became convinced that the clues that D&D **did** put in the show (like Ned's facial expressions and camerawork such as focusing on Jon after Aemon's "Targaryen alone in the world" speech) were D&D trolling all the fans who were already in the R+L=J camp rather than laying groundwork for people to come up with the theory from the show alone.
As someone who hadn't read the books prior to the show, I disagree. The hints weren't subtle at all. Or well, they were subtle, but clearly there. Just as hints for so many other things.
The reason he didn’t tell Cat imo is a simple one. He may trust her completely, but the more people that know the truth, the higher the chance of others finding out at the risk of Jon’s life. Keeping this info to himself was the safest option for Jon. Besides, if the rest of the world thought he was a bastard, it would seem pretty odd for Cat to treat him nicely, which she would have done, even if unintentional if she knew the truth. This would only invite more scrutiny and thus lead to more people finding out.
Catelyn Stark was a little bit impulsive. She's not a bad person or disloyal, but as we saw, she sometimes made decisions that she thought were the right course of action disregarding the consequences. As she did with Jaime and even when she left Winterfell leaving Bran in coma alone. Ned knew this about his wife I think... That's why he never told her. And thank god, in my opinion.
Catelyn didn't mean everything was literally happening because she rejected Jon. She meant she was being punished by the gods. Or at least that's how I saw it.
Exactly. Oddly enough, this scene was written for the show and is not in the books. It's heartbreaking, but I never could quite figure out why they put it in...
The show runners had the books. Almost got them to the end, but GRR Martin wrote some amazing fiction. The show runners are still amazing, by taking the source material, focusing it, changing it where needed to fit the narrative and pace. They did write a lot of the show and major plot pieces, but I see it more as a collaboration that worked perfectly.
It’s also worth mentioning that Ned and Cat were still relatively newly married. It’s a pretty massive secret to share with someone at that time. And how could he tell her later that it was all a lie? I doubt that would make things better in Cat’s eyes 👀
Plot twist in season 8: Eddard dropped Lyanna's child down the stair of that tower on accident, he died and Jon is indeed his bastard child. Bran just never look at that happening.
Because if catyln slipped once to save face Jon was going to be put to death I completely understand why Ned didn't but I felt bad for Catlyn that's for sure
Thank you for holding off on the reactions (except the finale) until Sunday. There are a plethora of other reactors that we can see Mon-Wed or so. Waiting makes me look forward to yours more, and like you said allows us a recap before the new one.
Ned promised to protect Jon but he had to protect his own family too. It was just safer for them if they didn't know. Cat would've treated Jon as part of the family and it would have looked suspicious.
I think Ned didn't tell Cat because hiding Jon's heritage from the king was treason, and he didn't want to risk her getting in trouble if the secret came to light. He also probably thought that the fewer people knew the truth, the safer the secret was. I still agree that he should have told her, though, after they'd been married for a few years and he knew he could trust her (They were basically strangers when they first married).
The only way a secret that huge could stay secret is for as few people as possible to know. Jon's life depended on it. Two people definitely knew the truth, Ned Stark and Howland Reed. Benjin Stark may have known as well. Ned was planning on telling him but they never saw each other again. Benjin also told Jon they would talk after he returned but he never did either. Once Jon took the Black and knew who he was, he couldn't do anything with that knowledge.
I think when Ned was writing the succession in Robert's words, then changed "Joffrey" to "rightful heir" that it was beyond the fact that Lord Eddard knew Joffrey was a bastard product of incest, but rather the fact he knew Jon Snow was the true rightful heir, which is why he promised Jon he would tell him about his mother, while hoping he would survive the "Game" in King's Landing.... Ned knew a "Bastard" couldn't necessarily rule, but wanted to check out Gendry to weigh possibilities, as Jon has taken "the Black".... I don't know, just something to think about
Ned only knew Caitlyn for a fortnite, he weded her and bedded her. She got pregnant, and he went off to war. A year (or so later I think 18 months) he returns home, only to bring baby, around the same age as his son, Rob. Caitlyn obviously was jealous, and he didn't know if he could trust her. In the books, hell even in the show, she made rash decisions and was ridden with jealousy. He was afraid, and wanted the past not to haunt him. Leave it alone, and go on with life. I think he should have trusted her years later, but he made a promise to Lyanana not to say anything, and just raise him as his own
Suggestion: would be great to see Sean review movies on this channel, especially with the summer movie coming up. Love his insight even if I do not always agree with him. Keep up the great work!
To me, a key moment is with Littlefinger and Sansa talking in the crypt. Sansa mentions kidnapping and rape. Littlefinger clearly reacts as if he knew the truth. This leads me to believe Littlefinger spread the kidnap/rape rumor to start the entire Baratheon rebellion. Convenient that the outcome places Littlefinger in a much higher position in life at the small council for the King. I've not read the books yet, but this seems like something Littlefinger would have done. Also, at the time of Jon's birth - Ned and Cat really did not know each other. It was later that they grew to love each other. I think Uncle Ben also knew the truth and was helping to protect Jon. Ned and Uncle Ben knew Jon would be safe from King Robert's wrath once Jon became part of the Night's Watch. That was why Ned promised Jon to reveal the truth about his mother the next time he saw Jon. That was why Ned raised Jon to believe the best thing to do was to join the Night's Watch.
Hey Sean. You seemed kind of interested in the Faceless Men during Arya's time at the House Of Black and White. There's a lore video on UA-cam somwhere that will shed some light. Cheers.
I think we might all be mind blown by the end of this season. I’m sure there will be flash backs. What will we see when young Robert Baratheon’s layers are peeled away?
You should react to some fan edits like 'Jaime Lannister - Oathbreaker/Oathkeeper', 'Jorah Mormont - Here I Stand' and 'Jon Snow - The Targaryen Wolf'.
Even the cast did. Alfie Allen said in an interview in Vulture in 2012 that GRRM is a big fan of his sister Lily Allen. And in exchange for something to do with Lily, Alfie asked who Jon Snow's parents really were: "You know, I asked him about who Jon Snow’s real parents were, and he told me. I can’t say who, but I can tell you that it involves a bit of a Luke Skywalker situation. It will all come to fruition eventually. The whole thing with all the fight over proper succession is partly inspired by the War of the Roses in the late 1400s, and back then, to ensure pedigree, the monarchies were kind of inbred. It’s definitely fucked up, but it definitely happened back then, so that’s why there’s incest with the Targaryen line. It’s toned down, though."
Cartelyn Stark sold it perfectly that Jon Snow was the bastard child of Ned Stark while he was away at war. Catelyn would do anything to protect her children, including trading away the child of Rhaegar Targaryen. The honorable Ned Stark made a promise to his sister on her death bed.
Ned did right not telling Cat. She would have had something else to use as a bargaining chip if the need arose. Look how she betrayed Robb and let Jaime go (although for a good reason). Ned gave full protection and bore the weight of his decision. Cat didn’t have to “love” Jon but wishing death on the baby and always showing such contempt was her undoing.
She betrayed Robb? Cat had just learned that her two sons were *burned alive* by Theon Greyjoy. You know, the *same boy* that Cat *begged* Rob *not* to trust to send to his father and he did anyway? Cat sets Jaime free because she was trying to save her children. Robb was in a war and he could die too, but also, Sansa and Arya are her *only* remaining kids besides Robb and they were (as far as she knew) at the mercy of their enemies, and Robb *refused* to trade for them. As a mother who'd lost so much in such a short span of time, I find it remarkable how callous fans can be regarding her choices. She'd *just* lost her husband, and now her two younger sons. She didn't want to lose anyone else for godsake.
I've never read the books so I didn't have any reference going into this show. I pretty much guessed that John Snow's lineage was significant because in season one John is heading off to the wall. He's basically a man and in all those years...he's never once had a discussion with Ned Stark about his mother? The fact that Ned would still not tell John about his mother even though he was heading off to the Night's Watch meant to me that there was something more to John. Because if his mother was just tavern wench or brothel whore why would that knowledge be kept away from John? I'd never heard of the R+L=J theory so my first theory was that Ned Stark had fallen for someone during the war and that someone was a member of the Targaryen family. Perhaps an as yet to be introduced character at that point. Later I of course began to hear about other theories including R+L=J
In the books, Jon is only just 14 years old at the start, so it wasn't necessarily his age that made me suspicious, but simply that I found the tight-lipped secrecy odd. The book tries to throw you off with rumors that his mother could be Ashara Dayne (Arthur Dayne's sister), who infamously committed suicide after the Rebellion. There are stories that Ned was completely enamored with her at the Tourney at Harrenhal and that Brandon asked her to dance with Ned. Most in the North suspect Ashara (including, it seems, Cat) and believe her death is just one more thing from the Rebellion that Ned finds too difficult to speak of. But to me, even that never seemed like a good enough explanation for never confiding in Cat with as close as they had become in their marriage. Couple together this strange secrecy with the repeated emphasis on Jon being the only stain on Ned's honorable character, it's easy to realize something significant was being concealed. Hiding Rhaegar's last biological son is the only thing that makes sense. It's the only thing I could see Ned hiding from Cat (and Jon). Then, once you start looking in the books, you notice Ned always refers to Jon as his "blood" rather than his son. He also tends to forget Jon when he lists his children, despite how much we know he loves him. Furthermore, he always tends to think of the three of them (Jon, Lyanna, and Rhaegar) in some sequence or combination - especially when he is hallucinating from his broken leg and having fever dreams while imprisoned - even though the thoughts could appear unrelated if you aren't specifically looking for a connection... There are no huge clues in the books, but nothing else makes sense.
One question. Aren't you glad that when these guys are done with Game of Thrones they're taking over Star Wars? I can only wait to see how the new stories will be told
The Real reason that Ned never told Cat has nothing to do with what these people are commenting... All the hints are there - it was a matter of timing: When Ned brought Jon home his marriage to Catelyn was still new. Catelyn herself was recently married to Ned after her marriage to his deceased brother Brandon (whom Catelyn loved dearly). Cat said it herself that her marriage to Ned “was built over time and not love at first sight” (paraphrased). All this means that at the time Ned brought Jon home he couldn’t trust Catelyn enough to share the secret. Once their love was built that may have changed, but by then it was too late. Catelyn has (as the editor pointed out) a tendency to overreact and the combination of the News about Jon + Cat’s guilt over wishing Jon dead + Ned lying to her = the potential for things to turn south very quickly. TL;DR - It was a combination of things that made Ned keep the secret from Cat, but the root of it was simply the Time at which it happened.
And the srangest fact of all is that only 5 of the 7 books were written when Thrones first started. The end was not known (unless GRRM told the showrunners all the details). But, if that's what happened, why did they change so many details (as far as we know) from the GRRM story? Which came first...?
They've consulted with George about a lot of stuff that comes in the last 2 books (for example, the origins of "Hodor" came straight from George) and I believe they also know generally how he planned for the story to end, as of when they wrote the scripts for the last 3 seasons. George can always change that when he actually finishes the last 2 books, but B&W have gotten a lot of info from him, I think. Most of the changes to the plot for the series I think were to keep production affordable, and narrow the narrative focus more for the filming version.
The books are too sprawling for a TV show. They would only have time to cycle through the characters every 2-3 episodes if they kept completely true to the books. Still, I'm surprised by their versions of the Dornish and Greyjoy storylines, as well as the Golden company. I assume they reached a point where they cut out everything they didn't need to get to the ending George gave them. And George confirmed on 60 Minutes just this past Sunday that the major plot points of the books will match the show; it's only the secondary storylines that will take different paths to reach the end. Also, director Alan Taylor, who directed S7E6 and other episodes as far back as Season 1, said in an interview last year that during the filming of Season 1 that George spoke freely of the ending back then. I'd post the quote from his interview in Time Magazine from 2017, but it's really spoilerish.
For season 8 reactions I think the editors should be in it as well assuming thats a possibility. They obviously watch it and have some knowledge of the show. It would probably be better if you had someone to talk about it with after the episode instead of just you.
Star Wars awkwardly retconning things later on is basically a tradition. Not necessarily a proud one... I mean, it's clear from watching A New Hope that they hadn't yet decided that Luke & Leia were siblings or that Darth Vader is their father. The only time GoT can be accused of something similar is their hamfisted handling of the entire Dorne storyline -- I like that storyline in the books but for the show I wish they'd just not done it at all rather than doing it badly and then hastily handwaving it all away later on.
A couple of other things I love:
- In the scene with Robert/Ned when they were talking about "the bastard's mother," Robert was trying to remember the name that Ned had told him (Ned said the woman's name was Wyla...who was actually the wet nurse there when Lyanna had Jon), and the first name Robert said was "Aleena" - Ah-Lee-Na. Love it.
- In S7, when Jon and Dany are talking, after Dany tells Jon about her dragons and their names, she mentions something Jon had told Tyrion, and he said something along the lines of "I see you've been talking to Tyrion" and they go on about how he likes to talk and Dany says "We all love doing what we're good at" and Jon says "I don't." Jon, like his dad Rhaegar, is also good at fighting/killing, but he doesn't like it. Again, just love it. :)
Ned didn't want to implicate Cat in this lie because that would've meant that she too had to lie. You never know, that lie might have slipped up somehow, somewhere. Its was much safer for his nephew that NO-ONE knew. Not to mention, (and this sounds harsh) the public hatred that Cat exhibited was very genuinely convincing. People would've never questioned or doubted that Jon wasn't his son.
Yup. Probable deniability. Ned loved his sister and his nephew and he was took NO chances. Of course, Howland Reed knew and im pretty sure BenJen knew as well.
Also he didn't know if he could trust her in the beginning. Hell there were married for a fortnite before he left her, got her pregnant then left for the war
@@cfinley81 Yes, I think Benjen knew, if only based on that vehement 'You're better than NO ONE!" reply when Jon wanted to go with him ranging in Episode 2. I think Ned told Benjen before they parted ways in Episode 1, just in case something happened to any of them.
That scene between Catelyn and Talisa is one of my favorite scenes out of the whole series.
Tear up every time
@MrImATool Arya and Yoren talking before they were taken captive when he's talking about Willem.
I don't understand why everyone questions why he didn't tell Cat. If i remember correctly, they were still newly married and she had been set to marry his brother before the Mad King killed him. I don't think that there was a love between them as of yet.
But, even if there was a trust, what would people think if Ned's wife easily accepted a bastard into her life and loved him without question? You'd have to think that if Robert or any of the Kings spies had seen Cat being motherly toward Jon, they might wonder why. Her personality is all about loyalty and family, so a constant reminder that her husband was unfaithful would make her jealous and angry. If she was anything other than this, people might get curious.
Ned wanted the circle of people that knew the truth to be as small as possible.
@MonsterOfLeon - Ned knows how Cat thinks. He knew that if he ever told Cat the truth, she would eventually UNDERMINE his oath to his sister, by ‘taking matters into her own hands’, without asking for approval (or input) from anyone else.
So if Cat knew that King Robert might (literally) kill ALL the Starks... just to kill ONE single baby Targaryen... she DEFINITELY would’ve ‘taken matters into her own hands’ and secretly shipped Jon Snow down to King’s Landing behind Ned’s back... to avoid getting all her other children killed by Robert’s Wrath.
We know this is TRUE because Cat did the EXACT same thing to her own son King Robb, when she went behind HIS back to send Jamie to Kings Landing with Lady Brienne... in an attempt to save Arya & Sansa.
Cat is way too emotional. She could never be trusted for several YEARS (or possibly DECADES) ... to keep a secret ‘that big’ which might get everyone in her immediate family killed. She would eventually buckle & insist that Ned sacrifice Jon to save her own kids. And if Ned disagreed.... she would go behind his back & do it anyway. (With or without his approval.)
Cat is the type to sacrifice one life... to save all the rest. But Ned is the type to ‘protect them all’.... even if it means he has to ‘hide the truth’ from EVERYONE.
Lolol “she clearly can’t keep shit to herself!” Too funny
Do Honest Trailers and Cold play Musical PLEASE!!!
The important thing to remember about this video is that it was made after the end of Season 5 - so, BEFORE Jon's parentage was revealed in the show (or in the books for that matter). "R+L=J" was only a theory at the time.
True but the books lay out much better hints and symbolism than the show did. So clever readers have known or at the very least, were pretty sure for awhile
It sucks seeing people who binge the show come back to watch this because it all amounted to basically nothing.. Jon being a Targ held such little relevance to the actual story. He rode a dragon once or twice, thats it
Ned had to wait until Jon was a member of the nights watch to tell him about his parents. That way, since the truth would then be out, Robert wouldn't have been able to do anything to him.
"Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post..."
I agree that protecting Jon from Robert was a top priority to Ned. He loved Jon as his own. But a part of me will always wonder if he was also trying to protect the Realm from the chance that Jon or, more importantly, any of his progeny would someday pursue a Targaryen restoration and throw the realm into another civil war. Jon joining the Watch solves everything because he forswears his birthright by taking the Vow at the same time that it removes him from Robert's reach.
@D-Ice's baby brother Lol yeah Ned knew he was a Targaryen. He might not have known that Rhaegar and Lyanna got married, but when he found Lyanna he knew that it was Rhaegar that had "taken" her. She even tells him in the 6x10 reveal, "If Robert finds out, he'll kill him, you know he will" And with Dany, Ned was in the same situation. Be loyal to his best friend who likes killing Targaryen children, or try and protect her the same way he did for Jon, knowing that Jon and Dany were related.
@@MFBloosh I think Ned may have concluded that R and L married when Lyanna told him the baby's name was Aegon Targaryen - I don't think she would have said that if it weren't true.
@@pamenadee9717 Yeah you're right. She never was able to explain the situation, but her saying Jon's real name would've gave it away that Rhaegar and Lyanna were wed.
@D-Ice's baby brother I don't think he was symphathetic to Targaryens' political cause, but I strongly believe he resented and - rightfully - feared Robert's hatred and didn't want to feed into it.
Throughout the first book Ned kept hearing “Promise me Ned”
George Lucas actually was on set during filing of episode 1 season 8. Check out the behind the scenes for that. He admires the show and it’s story immensely. Your comparison is actually very accurate.
I think the problem with the binge is that you don't have the time to process the information very well . But I must say you pick some stuff that i pick after watching two or three times. You are really a great reactor
Thank god you guys posted something in the meanwhile. The starvation between episodes is horrible, as much as it is between seasons. Dont leave us without content :(
“Little finger I hope you don’t R.I.P” Hahahahahahahaha
Ned barely knew Cat when they got married. She was supposed to marry his older brother before the mad king killed him. They got married, had one night together (where she got pregnant with Rob) and then he left for war, literally the next day. So why would he share his sister's last secret with a woman he barely knew. Later when they grew to love each other, people would've asked questions if she'd suddenly started behaving differently to Jon. Catlin Stark was not subtle and she jumped to conclusions and made rash decisions a lot. Ned couldn't take that chance.
Thanks for your explanation. I knew the first part but could never figure out why he wouldn't confide in her later, they were clearly shown as a very loving and trusting couple. But that sort of makes sense too.
It doesn't matter if he 'barely knew her,' Cat is his *wife* and she deserved to not spend her entire life with the embarrassment, anger and hurt over her husband bringing home a bastard kid. This was something that was *rarely* ever done, *especially* raising the kid amongst your trueborn sons. I get *why* Ned felt he had to keep the secret, but I'm tired of Ned's understandable reasons, be also used as a reason why Cat is wrong for feeling the way she did. *Especially* when you consider the fact that Catelyn is a woman. In their society, women don't really get to choose what happens to them, so she is set to marry Ned, she can't just walk away or divorce without losing a great deal for herself and her trueborn child. You expect her to just sit down and eat her food silently, while she is being disrespected in her own home? Would you say the same for any woman today who has to face their husband having cheated on them and brought home the child of that infidelity? No? Then don't act like it's any different here, because it's not.
@@roseofthegarden_ I do see your point, and I've always thought it was a little bit weird. More a "ok, nobody can know and there has to be a reason for Jon to leave the family" thing.
But I can understand how Ned would have reasoned it safer not to tell, even after their relationship had evolved. It would have been a hell of a risk to tell anyone, not only for Jon but for them too.
And I do understand completely why Cat never accepted Jon and how difficult it was for her. I think Michelle Fairley played it wonderfully, just in the right side of the line, bringing in Cat's complex feelings.
Garden Rose She should have been mad at her husband, not the child. It’s not a child’s fault for being born or brought home. How was she “being disrespected” in her own home? It’s not her home. It’s her Lord husband’s home and his heir after him. She lucky. She could have ended up in a much worse situation.
Book readers had been speculating R+L=J since the first book in the series. Excellent sleuthing on their part :)
@Captain Levi's Page GRRM said in his 60 Minutes interview this past Sunday that the major plot points of the final season will match the books. The only difference will be what goes on with the secondary characters. Jon has always been a major character.
Ned didn't tell Cat because Ned's brother Bran was supposed to Marry Cat but died. Ned then married Cat and soon after went of to war. Ned didn't know Cat that well at the time he brought Jon home. Also Cat was so honorable that if she heard anyone say Ned was a cheater, it may have slipped out if she lashed out in defense of Ned's honor.
Twenty years later, Ned still hadn't told her. I think he recognized she didn't have it in her to lie convincingly. As Jaime said, she was an honest woman... so honest she couldn't see past her own honorable intentions, resulting in some really poor judgement calls -- especially when it involved her kids. Two examples: 1) She kidnaps Tyrion and puts him on trial, despite the fact her husband and two girls are in Kings Landing which is controlled by the Lannisters! and 2) She releases Jaime (Robb's prisoner) in the hopes of negotiating for her two daughters, never mind that it weakens their position and creates discord in their camp. All in all, I think, sufficient evidence to show that if Cat had known about Jon's true parentage, she wouldn't have hesitated to try and use it as a bargaining chip with Joffrey/Cersei.
I don't think Cat would have that slip of a tongue. Ned would've told her how imperative it was to keep it a secret and Cat is smart enough to realize the precariousness of the situation. Not to mention her own kids could be in danger with this kind of secret, so she'd never. I just cannot see Cat doing anything to put them in jeopardy.
I have watch every season at least 5 times, and I catch something everytime
The best part of this video is it was made before (all of these clips are from the first five seasons) there was any official confirmation of Jon's parents. The hints are more clear in the books, but once you know to look for it, the foreshadowing is amazing. But it's *very* hard to pick up on it during your first watch.
I think the Star Wars analogy is excellent. It illustrates the difference and the huge advantage to a story being conceptualized by one creator rather than the story-by-committee method Hollywood seems to employ so often these days.
Sean, omg that shirt!! You need to watch Westerosi Rhapsody!!!
Just paused really quick to respond to you’re comment on saying that you wish Ned told Cat. Take a few minutes to look at her actions throughout her time on the series. She would’ve quickly given the secret up to protect her own. She made multiple rash decisions and she does have a quick temper (taking Tyrion, letting Jamie go, etc). He was wise not to. I know that he loved her and we love her, but it was best.
My thoughts exactly, Ned definitely knew how to keep a secret
Protect her own from who or what?
@@kmjkmjkmj Jaimie killed two of Rickard Karstark's sons. One at the battle of the Whispering Woods. And the other escaping from his cell. So as much as I don't condone killing the Lannister boys I do understand them wanting to kill the Kingslayer.
@@kmjkmjkmj She did it behind Robb's back, which showed her lack of judgment and lack of insight. Jaime was a valuable hostage. Like Robb said, Jaime played her like a fool. If Jaime had to be protected from angry Karstarks, she could have gone to Robb and ask him to secure his cell.
In season 7 there was a leak of the entire season, which in general turned out to be true. Even the leaks that were left on the cutting room floor, seem to pan out to be the truth. One of these leaks had Beric giving Jon, after he supposedly died again, the "last kiss of R'hllor". Now we know in the book he gave his last kiss to Lady Stoneheart (too long to explain to you Sean you'll have to look this one up). Anyhow in the leak Beric supposedly gave his life for Jon.
This had me thinking...
Since Beric is already dead in the books, and it's Lady Stoneheart that lives, it would seem like a perfect (yet very sad) full circle ending for her character, if SHE is the one to give Jon the last kiss.
Jon finally receiving a mother's love from the only "mother" he knew. :'(
That's what I've always suspected would happen since I first read the books over a decade ago.
Props to Sean Bean for knowing this in s1 and keeping it quiet. It gets even more interesting because we learn Ned survived the sword fight against Arthur Dayne when Howland Reed stabbed.him in the back. Ned finds Jaime sitting on the throne his sword in the mad kings back and brands him with the Kingslayer title that haunts him and tarnishes him. He hears it and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy as he grows into this guarded shell hiding insecurity behind the narcissistic persona until humbled/inspired through Brienne who reminded him of his ambitions hed had before the night hed saved Kings Landing's millions from burning to death by choosing to do the thing that was hard/right over his honor. When he approaches Ned each time In S1 he only tries to impress him and gain approval of sorts.
Ned never sees past it and never really listens I think because it reminded him of his darkest secret on a day he relives in nightmares.
Sean, you haven’t been paying attention close enough. Ned could NEVER tell Cat about John Snow because Ned KNEW ‘how Cat thinks’. He knew that if he ever told Cat the truth about Jon, she would UNDERMINE his lifelong oath to his sister... by ‘taking matters into her own hands’, without asking for his approval (or any input) from anyone else.
So if Cat knew that King Robert’s TEMPER might (literally) kill ALL the Starks... just to kill ONE single baby Targaryen... she DEFINITELY would’ve ‘taken matters into her own hands’ and secretly delivered Jon Snow down to King’s Landing behind Ned’s back... to avoid getting all her other children killed by Robert’s Wrath.
We know this is TRUE because Cat did the EXACT same thing to her own son King Robb, when she went behind HIS back to send Jamie to Kings Landing with Lady Brienne... in an attempt to save Arya & Sansa.
Cat was waaay too emotional. She could never be fully trusted for several YEARS (or DECADES) ... to keep a secret ‘that big’ which might get everyone in her immediate family killed.
She would eventually buckle & insist that Ned sacrifice Jon & give him up to King Robert... just to save her own kids. And if Ned disagreed.... she would’ve gone behind his back & did it anyway. (With or without his approval.)
Cat is the type to sacrifice one life... to save all the rest. But Ned is the type to ‘protect them all’.... even if it means he has to ‘hide the truth’ from EVERYONE.
Okay, this is *highkey* bs. I *highly* doubt she'd sacrifice the life of a child, who is the *nephew* of her *husband* and the child of his *beloved late sister* like, why the hell *would* she? She'd have kept the secret, period.
I mean, if *anything* Ned kept it from her, in order to make it more realistic looking, because he wasn't sure if she could easily pull off looking upset about an infidelity that she *knew* didn't happen. There's literally nothing that tells us she'd sacrifice her own family-in-law's for her trueborn kids. And why the hell would she be unable to keep a secret *that would put her kids in danger in the first place* again? If you really think she's the type who would fight to the death for her kids (and she is), then it's *far* more logical to believe, that she'd be *quite capable* of keeping this secret as long as she needs to, in order to protect her kids, and the life of her husbands nephew, and her nephew-in-law.
Cat didn't like Jon, because she thought he was the child of an infidelity. But had she known he was trueborn extended family? The son of Ned's sweet little sister? There's literally *no reason* why she'd scorn him, or want to give up his life, any more than her own kids.
The one thing I've never understood is how this man, Rhaegar, could be this beautiful, noble, honorable, beloved, etc. man, yet publicy humiliate his wife, then leave her and his two very young children basically to the wolves. He could at the very least have privately sent her home to Dorne safe with her family. Perhaps the books will explain thiis better? I don't think the show will address it. Anyone know if there is some History and Lore on this that I am missing?
I haven't read the books, but from what I've seen people explain, Rhaegar was noble and beloved, but also obsessed with the prophecy about "The Prince that was Promised". I won't go into detail, but you can read everything on the wiki pages about Rhaegar if you don't care about potential spoilers, all the info that is given on him in the books is there. It's never stated clearly why he did anything, but you can have some likely guesses at least. And yeah, I don't think the show will get into that whole story at all sadly.
Aerys did forbid Elia and the children to leave (while he did send Dany's pregnant mother and Viserys to Dragonstone when it looked like the war could be lost), to avoid Dorne changing sides and fighting for Robert instead. They were basically wards at that point, like Theon was.
As for Rhaegar, we hear very conflicting things on him, on the one side he was that beloved prince who liked singing, on the other side he knew/should have known that running away with Elia would cause a war with Robert who she was betrothed to, and would bring dishonor to his current wife and children. He even left his pregnant "girlfriend" Lyanna behind to fight and kill her betrothed, Robert and obviously his allies such as Lyanna's family.
That makes us think he was either dumb and irresponsible, or just an a'hole who didn't care about anything other than f'cking his crush.
But there's another side to it. Rhaegar was obsessed with books and prophecy. He thought he was meant to be the prince that was promised, and his children the 3 heads of the dragon. He even just trained at fighting because of something he read, not because he liked it. It is possible that he somehow (visions? books?) knew about the Army of the Dead and running away with Lyanna for him wasn't about love, but about having a third son, the only one capable of defeating them. And that this boy, the son(g) of ice and fire would be Lightbringer, the "weapon" that would save the world. And maybe he thought that the war of Robert's rebellion and even Lyanna's death (maybe even his own) all was worth it. Like in the story where the hero Azor Ahai did kill/sacrifice his wife to create Lightbringer and defeat the Others.
Ahh, thank you guys, those are good explaiinations!
"The dragon has three heads" is referenced over and over in the books. Rhaegar believed he had to have 3 children to defeat the threat beyond the Wall. (Dany even has a vision of this in the House of the Undying in the books.)
The books imply that Elia barely survived the birth of their 2nd child. And Rhaegar and Lyanna hid in Dorne of all places. Would he have taken her there if he didn't have at least some Dornish support?
But this prophecy is also what made book readers obsessed with who would ride Drogon, Rhaegal, and Viserion. We followed the clues to Jon pretty quickly, but the 3rd dragon rider is what led to all of the crazy theories about Tyrion (or Jaime and Cersei) also being hidden Targs.
Now, at least as far as the show goes, we know the 3rd dragon rider is the Night King.
@@EncryptedBear8 To keep Dorne on his side? ...or Rhaegar??? Many of us believe the Tourney at Harrenhal was planned by Rhaegar supporters (with Rhaegar's knowledge) so that Rhaegar could meet with the major lords of the Realm to discuss how to remove his father as King after he came back from his captivity in Duskendale completely mad. I think Aerys kept Elia and the children as hostages to tie Rhaegar's hands behind his back, as well as Dorne.
A tip for you guys since you’re just getting into reactions. Time is of the essence. No ones gonna care about reacting to an episode a week later when they’ve probably already watched at least 5 other reactions.
Love your reactions and enjoyed the binge immensely but I have to agree - you need to get reactions to the new episodes out within a day or 2 tops. The fastest reactors get them out within hours of airing and for watching reactions along with the show, not many will watch episode 1 reactions after episode 2 airs. Personally ive already watched about 15 episode 1 reactions, and after episode 2 will be watching all the episode 2 reactions, not going back to episode 1.
@@sunsetdreamer68 agree with you completely. I really enjoy Sean's insight and perspective. But come next Sunday, all I'm going to be thinking about is episode 2.
One of the best GoT compilation videos out there. And this is only footage from the first 5 seasons.
Ned did not confide the secret to anyone because he knew that, eventually, someone would use that information, either to harm Jon or to place him on the throne. And that is exactly what happened now. As soon as Bran and Sam knew it, their logic is that it is best to tell the truth.
They will not take Jon's wishes into account. And assuming his true identity will put him at the center of the game.
Cersei said it already: When you play the game of thrones, you win or die. There are no middle ground.
This was hidden and spaced out to be more Easter Eggish in the show. It was a growing theory in the 90s with s6 vision being partially given *without reveal* in Neds dreams. It grew to be like 90% faithfully accepted amongst book fans before the show was produced and was cannon when the show finally got to prove Lyannas cause of death. There's a more in depth 5-6 minute story called "Knight of the laughing tree that really expands on a much deeper story that compliments all of this. Just a fun suggestion
Thank you for putting in words what I felt amazed me the most about GoT, which I never manged to describe really well. Now I think I can, with reference to what you said. It really is this psychological aspect of a story that is finished in itself - It just adds so much depth and "realism" to it, for me. Or rather, it destroys it otherwise. I do not want a story that is altered after the fact, as a response to feedback of already aired content - I want to believe I am submerged into a carefully crafted world, where there are human relations and events to discover that may have happened well before the story picked up, that one can speculate and theorize about. Learning that a story is modified after the fact just "spoils" that for you, as you can be sure that there is no "hidden" or "deeper" meaning to anything already aired. For example in Breaking Bad - an otherwise still fantastic series. But AFTER I had finished watching it, I learned that they originally had planned to kill of Jessie at the end of Season 1. And even though he turned out to be my favorite character of the show, it still kinda ruined it to me, because suddenly the story lost it's magic to me. Same thing with Stranger Things. On the other hand, you see with Game of Thrones, the story about Jon Snows mother and Hodor - those storylines were embedded into the very first episodes. And it just adds so much more value to a story, especially when you like to really "jump into it".
Catelyn Stark promised the gods that she would be a mother to Jon if he survived his illness. Then she could not keep that promise. Ned could not take any chances that someone else would feel as obligated to keep this secret. He could only trust himself. Even though there is speculation that Benjen knew, and this is why he took the black.
Regarding Ned not telling Catelyn, they were an arranged marriage so there was no real love and loyalty in the beginning of their marriage. She was supposed to marry his older brother who ended up killed by the mad king. The custom was to marry the next brother/heir to Winterfell so that happened. Very soon after they were married Ned went off to fight in the war against the Mad King. Cat was pregnant with Rob while he was gone but Ned and Cat hadn’t really grown in love at that point so when he came back from the war he didn’t know her enough to trust her with that secret. Even when they did bond over time it wasn’t something he felt he could tell her. Maybe because he knew her instincts idk 😐
OMG I've been watching the Game of Thrones reaction videos on this channel, all the new content being uploaded to the official Game of Thrones UA-cam channel, and Star Wars Celebration and everything being uploaded to the official Star Wars UA-cam channel like, EXCLUSIVELY for the past couple weeks!
That's so awesome that Sean uses Star Wars to illustrate his analogy here, about the depths of, "R+L=J," in the GOT universe lol that's how you know you're being spoken to in your, "native language,";
(For lack of a better term.)
When sentiments, themes, and events from one Universe are used to describe similar motifs in another, both of which happen to be something you can easily identify and understand.
Well done, Sean---Sa
🤜💥🤛
Cat would have totally given it away if she would have known. She can’t keep her emotions in check. And people would have totally gotten suspicious if she was all super nice to her husband’s bastard.
“There see? Ned knew!” “Duh”
😂😂😂
Loved it! 👏🏻👏🏻
Also, this video came out before season 6. The R + L = J theory has been around since the release of the first book in the early 90s.
Ned knew that Cat can not lie, and in time everyone would know that he is not Ned's son.
12:50 What your editor said. Also - It was an arranged marriage between Ned and Cat. He hardly knew her at the time and probably didn't trust her enough for a secret of that scale..
Im glad you watced this, for those of us who didnt binge these episodes and didnt read the books- we lived with the R+L=J theory for years. There is definitley alot you can miss from watching too fast
That scene where Sansa says Lyanna was raped and little finger just looks at her and smirks gives it away that, well that did not happen
They weren't just, "little conversations," weaved throughout, like the R+L=J video suggests, if you remember, (and especially in a second viewing of all the seasons,) the foreshadowing was weaved throughout with some pretty major events in the overall timeline of the story.
Like, Ned stepping down as Robert's Hand of the King, when he demanded Ned oversee Daenerys' murder, opening Ned up to getting assaulted by Jaime outside Littlefinger's Brothel, amongst many others.
The whole, "R+L=J," thing has literally helped shape some of the more significant story beats this entire time, it's quite impressive writing!
But, you're definitely right about one thing lol no QUESTION Ned should have let Catelyn in on the secret, it would have changed the outcome considerably.👍
I don't know if Sean is going to read this but i hope his editors share it with him. The reason Ned didn't tell Catelyn was 2-fold. He didn't know her well enough to trust her with that secret when they got married. It was an arranged marriage that was agreed to in haste after his elder brother died (who was supposed to marry her). He was not about to spill the most significant secret during the time the whole country was in turmoil about the Monarchy. That was just not in any world a possibility. The 2nd thing is that even after they grew to know and love each other the secret and promise he made to his sister always stayed with him. If he were to tell Catelyn and her feelings toward Jon softened it could bring on unwanted attention. Her hatred for Jon made sense in a way; her husband brought home a bastard child he had with another woman to raise. This is just not done. Most other lords keep their bastards at a distance to spare their wife of the shame/embarrassment of the situation. But Ned bringing Jon home was not questioned strongly because in Neds case people knew Ned to be so Honorable that he wouldn't try to "hide" his shame. And in the event the Catelyn showed caring for Jon it would be very discordant and might draw the eye of suspicious minds...Ned couldn't risk that. Her animosity in a way provided an additional shield for Jon.
As someone who read the books long before the show started airing, I was always surprised how few hints the show gave, and even those were very, very subtle. I became convinced that the clues that D&D **did** put in the show (like Ned's facial expressions and camerawork such as focusing on Jon after Aemon's "Targaryen alone in the world" speech) were D&D trolling all the fans who were already in the R+L=J camp rather than laying groundwork for people to come up with the theory from the show alone.
As someone who hadn't read the books prior to the show, I disagree. The hints weren't subtle at all. Or well, they were subtle, but clearly there. Just as hints for so many other things.
The reason he didn’t tell Cat imo is a simple one. He may trust her completely, but the more people that know the truth, the higher the chance of others finding out at the risk of Jon’s life. Keeping this info to himself was the safest option for Jon. Besides, if the rest of the world thought he was a bastard, it would seem pretty odd for Cat to treat him nicely, which she would have done, even if unintentional if she knew the truth. This would only invite more scrutiny and thus lead to more people finding out.
telling Cat would have been big mistake, Ned told her: "he is my blood, that's all you need to know"
So glad you reacted to this!
Awwww. I've missed you! And i wanted to see this video also. Let's do this Sean-sa!
Catelyn Stark was a little bit impulsive. She's not a bad person or disloyal, but as we saw, she sometimes made decisions that she thought were the right course of action disregarding the consequences. As she did with Jaime and even when she left Winterfell leaving Bran in coma alone. Ned knew this about his wife I think... That's why he never told her. And thank god, in my opinion.
Catelyn didn't mean everything was literally happening because she rejected Jon. She meant she was being punished by the gods. Or at least that's how I saw it.
Exactly.
Oddly enough, this scene was written for the show and is not in the books. It's heartbreaking, but I never could quite figure out why they put it in...
The show runners had the books. Almost got them to the end, but GRR Martin wrote some amazing fiction. The show runners are still amazing, by taking the source material, focusing it, changing it where needed to fit the narrative and pace. They did write a lot of the show and major plot pieces, but I see it more as a collaboration that worked perfectly.
You're back!!! YAYYYYY
It’s also worth mentioning that Ned and Cat were still relatively newly married. It’s a pretty massive secret to share with someone at that time. And how could he tell her later that it was all a lie? I doubt that would make things better in Cat’s eyes 👀
Plot twist in season 8:
Eddard dropped Lyanna's child down the stair of that tower on accident, he died and Jon is indeed his bastard child. Bran just never look at that happening.
Because if catyln slipped once to save face Jon was going to be put to death I completely understand why Ned didn't but I felt bad for Catlyn that's for sure
Thank you for holding off on the reactions (except the finale) until Sunday. There are a plethora of other reactors that we can see Mon-Wed or so. Waiting makes me look forward to yours more, and like you said allows us a recap before the new one.
Ned promised to protect Jon but he had to protect his own family too. It was just safer for them if they didn't know. Cat would've treated Jon as part of the family and it would have looked suspicious.
Sean, I missed you! I used to see you at least twice a day. I hope we'll get more videos untill sunday.
I think Ned didn't tell Cat because hiding Jon's heritage from the king was treason, and he didn't want to risk her getting in trouble if the secret came to light. He also probably thought that the fewer people knew the truth, the safer the secret was. I still agree that he should have told her, though, after they'd been married for a few years and he knew he could trust her (They were basically strangers when they first married).
The only way a secret that huge could stay secret is for as few people as possible to know. Jon's life depended on it. Two people definitely knew the truth, Ned Stark and Howland Reed. Benjin Stark may have known as well. Ned was planning on telling him but they never saw each other again. Benjin also told Jon they would talk after he returned but he never did either. Once Jon took the Black and knew who he was, he couldn't do anything with that knowledge.
I think when Ned was writing the succession in Robert's words, then changed "Joffrey" to "rightful heir" that it was beyond the fact that Lord Eddard knew Joffrey was a bastard product of incest, but rather the fact he knew Jon Snow was the true rightful heir, which is why he promised Jon he would tell him about his mother, while hoping he would survive the "Game" in King's Landing.... Ned knew a "Bastard" couldn't necessarily rule, but wanted to check out Gendry to weigh possibilities, as Jon has taken "the Black".... I don't know, just something to think about
Jon had taken the Night's Watch vows, and we're talking about "Honorable Ned" here. Do you really think he had intentions for Jon to break those vows?
Medievalland Fun Time World!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've just realized that Ned had an obligation to launch a rebellion against Robert to put his nephew, the rightful heir, on the throne.
Are the Honest Trailers on the agenda?
OK Bastard I second these!
Ok, bastard.
Ned only knew Caitlyn for a fortnite, he weded her and bedded her. She got pregnant, and he went off to war. A year (or so later I think 18 months) he returns home, only to bring baby, around the same age as his son, Rob. Caitlyn obviously was jealous, and he didn't know if he could trust her.
In the books, hell even in the show, she made rash decisions and was ridden with jealousy. He was afraid, and wanted the past not to haunt him. Leave it alone, and go on with life.
I think he should have trusted her years later, but he made a promise to Lyanana not to say anything, and just raise him as his own
It always makes me cry very much like your team edit was perfect!!!!
This show, even with its flaws, is a masterpiece, as is the story behind it.
Suggestion: would be great to see Sean review movies on this channel, especially with the summer movie coming up. Love his insight even if I do not always agree with him. Keep up the great work!
To me, a key moment is with Littlefinger and Sansa talking in the crypt. Sansa mentions kidnapping and rape. Littlefinger clearly reacts as if he knew the truth. This leads me to believe Littlefinger spread the kidnap/rape rumor to start the entire Baratheon rebellion. Convenient that the outcome places Littlefinger in a much higher position in life at the small council for the King. I've not read the books yet, but this seems like something Littlefinger would have done. Also, at the time of Jon's birth - Ned and Cat really did not know each other. It was later that they grew to love each other. I think Uncle Ben also knew the truth and was helping to protect Jon. Ned and Uncle Ben knew Jon would be safe from King Robert's wrath once Jon became part of the Night's Watch. That was why Ned promised Jon to reveal the truth about his mother the next time he saw Jon. That was why Ned raised Jon to believe the best thing to do was to join the Night's Watch.
please react Westerosi Rhapsody it is hilarious.
Thank you much love
Well done Sean! 🙂 Looking forward to OUR next episode reaction! Thanks !🤗
Hey Sean. You seemed kind of interested in the Faceless Men during Arya's time at the House Of Black and White. There's a lore video on UA-cam somwhere that will shed some light. Cheers.
Alt Shift X, bridge4, and whycreate are imo the best GOT Theory and information channels. I would suggest watching their videos
I agree. Also, 'In Deep Geek' is another excellent source. Lots of history.
Cat would totally have told Robert!!
I think we might all be mind blown by the end of this season. I’m sure there will be flash backs. What will we see when young Robert Baratheon’s layers are peeled away?
Sean, I need to see your reaction to season 8 episode 1 *NOW!!!!!* 👑
Thank you, Sean and Faceless Editors.
You should react to some fan edits like 'Jaime Lannister - Oathbreaker/Oathkeeper', 'Jorah Mormont - Here I Stand' and 'Jon Snow - The Targaryen Wolf'.
God...watching this just makes me love & respect Ned Stark even more...
Been making a similar SW and GoT comparison for a few years.
Even the cast did. Alfie Allen said in an interview in Vulture in 2012 that GRRM is a big fan of his sister Lily Allen. And in exchange for something to do with Lily, Alfie asked who Jon Snow's parents really were:
"You know, I asked him about who Jon Snow’s real parents were, and he told me. I can’t say who, but I can tell you that it involves a bit of a Luke Skywalker situation. It will all come to fruition eventually. The whole thing with all the fight over proper succession is partly inspired by the War of the Roses in the late 1400s, and back then, to ensure pedigree, the monarchies were kind of inbred. It’s definitely fucked up, but it definitely happened back then, so that’s why there’s incest with the Targaryen line. It’s toned down, though."
welcome back ! :)
Cartelyn Stark sold it perfectly that Jon Snow was the bastard child of Ned Stark while he was away at war. Catelyn would do anything to protect her children, including trading away the child of Rhaegar Targaryen. The honorable Ned Stark made a promise to his sister on her death bed.
omg i didnt think we would get this!!
I always thought that it has to been that way, so different if Cat had know
Now go rewatch the whole series :D
Ned did right not telling Cat. She would have had something else to use as a bargaining chip if the need arose. Look how she betrayed Robb and let Jaime go (although for a good reason). Ned gave full protection and bore the weight of his decision. Cat didn’t have to “love” Jon but wishing death on the baby and always showing such contempt was her undoing.
She betrayed Robb? Cat had just learned that her two sons were *burned alive* by Theon Greyjoy. You know, the *same boy* that Cat *begged* Rob *not* to trust to send to his father and he did anyway? Cat sets Jaime free because she was trying to save her children. Robb was in a war and he could die too, but also, Sansa and Arya are her *only* remaining kids besides Robb and they were (as far as she knew) at the mercy of their enemies, and Robb *refused* to trade for them. As a mother who'd lost so much in such a short span of time, I find it remarkable how callous fans can be regarding her choices. She'd *just* lost her husband, and now her two younger sons. She didn't want to lose anyone else for godsake.
I've never read the books so I didn't have any reference going into this show. I pretty much guessed that John Snow's lineage was significant because in season one John is heading off to the wall. He's basically a man and in all those years...he's never once had a discussion with Ned Stark about his mother? The fact that Ned would still not tell John about his mother even though he was heading off to the Night's Watch meant to me that there was something more to John. Because if his mother was just tavern wench or brothel whore why would that knowledge be kept away from John?
I'd never heard of the R+L=J theory so my first theory was that Ned Stark had fallen for someone during the war and that someone was a member of the Targaryen family. Perhaps an as yet to be introduced character at that point. Later I of course began to hear about other theories including R+L=J
In the books, Jon is only just 14 years old at the start, so it wasn't necessarily his age that made me suspicious, but simply that I found the tight-lipped secrecy odd.
The book tries to throw you off with rumors that his mother could be Ashara Dayne (Arthur Dayne's sister), who infamously committed suicide after the Rebellion. There are stories that Ned was completely enamored with her at the Tourney at Harrenhal and that Brandon asked her to dance with Ned. Most in the North suspect Ashara (including, it seems, Cat) and believe her death is just one more thing from the Rebellion that Ned finds too difficult to speak of. But to me, even that never seemed like a good enough explanation for never confiding in Cat with as close as they had become in their marriage.
Couple together this strange secrecy with the repeated emphasis on Jon being the only stain on Ned's honorable character, it's easy to realize something significant was being concealed. Hiding Rhaegar's last biological son is the only thing that makes sense. It's the only thing I could see Ned hiding from Cat (and Jon).
Then, once you start looking in the books, you notice Ned always refers to Jon as his "blood" rather than his son. He also tends to forget Jon when he lists his children, despite how much we know he loves him. Furthermore, he always tends to think of the three of them (Jon, Lyanna, and Rhaegar) in some sequence or combination - especially when he is hallucinating from his broken leg and having fever dreams while imprisoned - even though the thoughts could appear unrelated if you aren't specifically looking for a connection...
There are no huge clues in the books, but nothing else makes sense.
Jon was not a "lovechild" which implies illegitimacy
One question. Aren't you glad that when these guys are done with Game of Thrones they're taking over Star Wars? I can only wait to see how the new stories will be told
I'd be legit excited if GRRM was taking over Star Wars.
Love the shirt, Sean! 👍👏❤
I think ned didnt tell cat because if it came down too it she would have given up Jon snow for her own children.
I screamed 😂
The Real reason that Ned never told Cat has nothing to do with what these people are commenting... All the hints are there - it was a matter of timing:
When Ned brought Jon home his marriage to Catelyn was still new. Catelyn herself was recently married to Ned after her marriage to his deceased brother Brandon (whom Catelyn loved dearly). Cat said it herself that her marriage to Ned “was built over time and not love at first sight” (paraphrased). All this means that at the time Ned brought Jon home he couldn’t trust Catelyn enough to share the secret. Once their love was built that may have changed, but by then it was too late. Catelyn has (as the editor pointed out) a tendency to overreact and the combination of the News about Jon + Cat’s guilt over wishing Jon dead + Ned lying to her = the potential for things to turn south very quickly.
TL;DR - It was a combination of things that made Ned keep the secret from Cat, but the root of it was simply the Time at which it happened.
Catelyn would have traded Jon for Arya & Sansa if she had known.
Yea coldplay got musical is hilarious
I already commented but... React Jon Snow|targaryen wolf and Jaime Lanister|Oathbreaker and jaime|Oathkeeper...plz love you all (editors and Sean)
Wow finally ur reaction !!!
And the srangest fact of all is that only 5 of the 7 books were written when Thrones first started. The end was not known (unless GRRM told the showrunners all the details). But, if that's what happened, why did they change so many details (as far as we know) from the GRRM story? Which came first...?
They've consulted with George about a lot of stuff that comes in the last 2 books (for example, the origins of "Hodor" came straight from George) and I believe they also know generally how he planned for the story to end, as of when they wrote the scripts for the last 3 seasons. George can always change that when he actually finishes the last 2 books, but B&W have gotten a lot of info from him, I think. Most of the changes to the plot for the series I think were to keep production affordable, and narrow the narrative focus more for the filming version.
The books are too sprawling for a TV show. They would only have time to cycle through the characters every 2-3 episodes if they kept completely true to the books. Still, I'm surprised by their versions of the Dornish and Greyjoy storylines, as well as the Golden company. I assume they reached a point where they cut out everything they didn't need to get to the ending George gave them. And George confirmed on 60 Minutes just this past Sunday that the major plot points of the books will match the show; it's only the secondary storylines that will take different paths to reach the end.
Also, director Alan Taylor, who directed S7E6 and other episodes as far back as Season 1, said in an interview last year that during the filming of Season 1 that George spoke freely of the ending back then. I'd post the quote from his interview in Time Magazine from 2017, but it's really spoilerish.
For season 8 reactions I think the editors should be in it as well assuming thats a possibility. They obviously watch it and have some knowledge of the show. It would probably be better if you had someone to talk about it with after the episode instead of just you.
You're assuming that they want to get together late on a Sunday night - outside of work hours - to watch it together ;-)
Star Wars awkwardly retconning things later on is basically a tradition. Not necessarily a proud one...
I mean, it's clear from watching A New Hope that they hadn't yet decided that Luke & Leia were siblings or that Darth Vader is their father. The only time GoT can be accused of something similar is their hamfisted handling of the entire Dorne storyline -- I like that storyline in the books but for the show I wish they'd just not done it at all rather than doing it badly and then hastily handwaving it all away later on.
where is episode 1 season 8 where is it