Yes, brother, right on. Simple and to the point, elegant. I'm still not sure that "mourn" is the best word there, but it's not a biggie. Yours is very close to Winthrop Sargeant's, and like I said, I think he's the gold standard of Gita translations -- he really did his "OMwork" : )
Thanks for your video! Sri Bhagavan says: "While you speak words of wisdom, you are mourning when you should not mourn. For the wise grieve neither for the living nor the dead." Mourn, Grieve, Lament... They all work and all about the same. Choose whichever you like best. Likewise, yet, while, or although - all of these work well in the translation even though the word in Sanskrit is 'and'. Yet (or one of the alternate words) is needed in the English translation to make for a clear sentence. I don't think it changes the meaning or adds or subtracts from the sloka. However, the main issue that I see in this all-important sloka is that either you translate the Sanskrit word aśhochyā as: “not worthy of grief,” OR: “not to be mourned”. I prefer “(that which) should not to be mourned” or “(that which) should not to be grieved for”. Some commentators use that translation, (you read a couple of them!) although most use another: “(those who are) not worthy of grief" or “(those who should) not be mourned.” My sense is that Bhishma, etc. ARE worthy of grief - in the “worldly” sense. Arjuna is still in the world and still has a worldly mind - just like all the readers of the Gita. Krishna is clearly saying (in the first sentence of the verse) that the reasons that Arjuna outlined at the end of Chapter 1 are correct and are a part of ”wisdom” - in a worldly way. So, Krishna is saying to not mourn ALL of that stuff - ALL of the reasons that Arjuna gave. Arjuna gave many reasons to not fight, and we should look at how this sloka fits with all the reasons that Arjuna gave. Thus, we should not soley focus on only one of them - the killing of his teachers, kinsmen, etc. If you translate as: “those who should not be mourned”, (rather than “that which should not be mourned”), you are signaling out only one of Arjuna’s reasons for not fighting. This, I think is a mistake, although a quite subtle one, and one that my favorite translators and commentators have made. There are two things happening in this very important sloka. One is that on a worldly level - the level in which every reader of the Gita is living in - it is wise not to do action (karma) that will cause unnecessary suffering, such as: the breakdown of the family system, the downfall of society, the killing of kith and kin, mixing of casts, and the stoppage of ancestor worship, etc. We need to recognize this as Krishna clearly does. This is worldly wisdom. The wisdom of (and within) duality. It is not wrong wisdom, but it is limited. It is simply not the end of the story, or not the full story. And only the truly wise will be able to see the full story. The second sentence is the clincher. Krishna now tells us how the truly wise view it all. The “wise” referred to here are the enlightened ones. The ones who have already completely renounced the world and know (and live) the difference between the real and the unreal. Thus the second sentence is the wisdom of non-duality. “For the wise grieve neither for the living nor the dead.” This does not make sense in the world of duality. It only makes sense to the wise (who are non-dual). Thus, as Krishna speaks elsewhere, it is a secret for the ears of only those who are worthy. It is very deep. Few will understand it.
Brilliant!!! Thank you, brah. I particularly appreciate your changing "those" to "that" -- you're right on about that. It actually does not say "those" anyway. Very well-thought out and written! Hari OM TAT SAT : )
You are mourning that which you should not mourn, yet you speak words of wisdom. For the wise grieve neither for the living nor the dead.
Yes, brother, right on. Simple and to the point, elegant. I'm still not sure that "mourn" is the best word there, but it's not a biggie. Yours is very close to Winthrop Sargeant's, and like I said, I think he's the gold standard of Gita translations -- he really did his "OMwork" : )
Thanks for your video!
Sri Bhagavan says: "While you speak words of wisdom, you are mourning when you should not mourn. For the wise grieve neither for the living nor the dead."
Mourn, Grieve, Lament... They all work and all about the same. Choose whichever you like best. Likewise, yet, while, or although - all of these work well in the translation even though the word in Sanskrit is 'and'. Yet (or one of the alternate words) is needed in the English translation to make for a clear sentence. I don't think it changes the meaning or adds or subtracts from the sloka.
However, the main issue that I see in this all-important sloka is that either you translate the Sanskrit word aśhochyā as: “not worthy of grief,” OR: “not to be mourned”. I prefer “(that which) should not to be mourned” or “(that which) should not to be grieved for”. Some commentators use that translation, (you read a couple of them!) although most use another: “(those who are) not worthy of grief" or “(those who should) not be mourned.”
My sense is that Bhishma, etc. ARE worthy of grief - in the “worldly” sense. Arjuna is still in the world and still has a worldly mind - just like all the readers of the Gita. Krishna is clearly saying (in the first sentence of the verse) that the reasons that Arjuna outlined at the end of Chapter 1 are correct and are a part of ”wisdom” - in a worldly way. So, Krishna is saying to not mourn ALL of that stuff - ALL of the reasons that Arjuna gave. Arjuna gave many reasons to not fight, and we should look at how this sloka fits with all the reasons that Arjuna gave.
Thus, we should not soley focus on only one of them - the killing of his teachers, kinsmen, etc. If you translate as: “those who should not be mourned”, (rather than “that which should not be mourned”), you are signaling out only one of Arjuna’s reasons for not fighting. This, I think is a mistake, although a quite subtle one, and one that my favorite translators and commentators have made.
There are two things happening in this very important sloka. One is that on a worldly level - the level in which every reader of the Gita is living in - it is wise not to do action (karma) that will cause unnecessary suffering, such as: the breakdown of the family system, the downfall of society, the killing of kith and kin, mixing of casts, and the stoppage of ancestor worship, etc. We need to recognize this as Krishna clearly does. This is worldly wisdom. The wisdom of (and within) duality. It is not wrong wisdom, but it is limited. It is simply not the end of the story, or not the full story. And only the truly wise will be able to see the full story.
The second sentence is the clincher. Krishna now tells us how the truly wise view it all. The “wise” referred to here are the enlightened ones. The ones who have already completely renounced the world and know (and live) the difference between the real and the unreal. Thus the second sentence is the wisdom of non-duality. “For the wise grieve neither for the living nor the dead.” This does not make sense in the world of duality. It only makes sense to the wise (who are non-dual). Thus, as Krishna speaks elsewhere, it is a secret for the ears of only those who are worthy. It is very deep. Few will understand it.
Brilliant!!! Thank you, brah. I particularly appreciate your changing "those" to "that" -- you're right on about that. It actually does not say "those" anyway. Very well-thought out and written! Hari OM TAT SAT : )