Why everyone is getting this duel wrong
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- Опубліковано 25 сер 2023
- Ahsokas first battle against the Inquisitor Marrok has seen significant criticism from fans, specifically its choreography and cinematagrophy. Today we are going to breakdown this fight frame by frame to determine if this is the worst lightsaber battle we've seen in live action.
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Honestly I though that Marrok lack of mindless aggression and willingness to nope out when things were no long advantageous shows why he is(as far as we know) the only inquisitor to survive.
Vader dead so he knows he won't be unalived on cooldown
I think it's going to be Mara Jade worked into canon as an inquisitor, but one that was trained under Palpatine instead of Vader.
His shipped arrived that's why
@@Notanon Her or(hopefully but also kind of not hopefully?) Starkiller would be cool. The Starkiller theory has some merit if not purely from his name and position as the last disciple of Vader technically speaking. Either of those would be awesome though! Also could be a new character, which I guess I wouldn't mind, but it feels like they're building it up to being someone specific with how Ahsoka seemed weirded out by him. Couldn't be Ezra since Ezra is with Thrawn; couldn't get back to the primary galaxy clearly or else they wouldn't have a reason to be searching for a path there if he could head to them from the given location, so that theory is already blown out of the water.
We have seen ahsoka take down an inquisitor with out light sabers, marrok definitely holds back more allowing him to keep more control. I think this fight clearly shows he understands when to press his advantages and when not to.
That predatory look when she stabbed the droid. That was the moment the inquisitor knew it was time to nope out.
😂 oh please...
Methinks you're reading too much into it, convincing yourself there's more there than there is, to make it seem better in your head than it actually is on screen... why do that to yourself?
@@draconianemanations2785 my man that was a look of sheer "you fked around and now you're about to find out" and he made the right move getting the heck outta there
Totally - she hadn't finished dispatching the droid, but she was already giving a hunting look around its shoulder at her next victim.
@@draconianemanations2785bud it’s ok to admit ya missed something, cause she most definitely gave him that look…
Togrutas tend to be hunters by nature, so you could say Ahsoka’s predatory heritage kicked in while fighting the droid and Inquisitor.
Unlike most of the recent duels we've been getting, this looks more like an actual fight, not some choreographed dance. The stances behind each strike and block are solid and they look like they're actually going for hits instead of touching blades
i think that the footwork tells the story just as much as the blades. they are in for real, yet, know that this isn't THE fight. like in sparring. you show that you have correct technique, but withhold the full power needed to break the bone.
If Troupe Master Grimm taught me anything, artful dances and action-packed battles aren’t as mutually exclusive as you’d think.
Looks like they are wielding clubs, a common problem in Disney starwars.
@@Hnatiuk16 I wonder if it's to give a better effect in the post production, like using something that can be picked up for editing in the computer more efficiently. Not saying I disagree. I mean, they could buy a pair of ultrasabers,or the ilk, for example, and do better maneuvers, etc., but in Ahsoka, it's far superior "clubbing" than the sequels.
@@drakonos79 That is an interesting consideration, but I just really miss the flow of prequel duels. It looks like the sabers are weightless. That would explain why they keep adding in "heavy" lightsabers, like the darksaber and the villian of this tv show.
Marrok changing to double sided saber mode felt really cool,like a game cutscene
Felt like a 2nd health bar power up
@@ffbear8078*Insert Ganondorf meme here*
He kinda looks like a Dark Souls boss so it fits
100% a Fromsoft moment
Boss has entered Phase 2 (of 7)
I thought the fight was cool, and seems like we have some fairly competent villains again finally
It was lame, they could have chopped each other up several times through the openings they both left at several points in the fight. None of the lightsaber fights have been good so far, you just making excuses for bad choreography if you say otherwise imho.
@@draconianemanations2785point out the times. There aren’t any obvious ones, and if there are minor split second decisions that could’ve been made, sure they could’ve but in a fight you can’t always analyze everything at great detail in those precious milliseconds like you can going frame by frame
@@draconianemanations2785why your opinions not seem very humble 🤔
@@draconianemanations2785Literally every lightsaber duel has parts where they could kill each other but don’t. You’re hating for the sake of hating
@@oXRaptorzXo No shot, when she kicks him, center mass it would have been much easier and faster to just poke him with a saber in the same spot. Also when locked with both the droid and the inquisitor she cuts in a crescent pattern with an off saber that id she'd move a few millimeters longer could have cut him across the chest. in the same move. He has to be wearing beskar for this to make sense. Maybe we'll find out he is later on.
In my opinion I not only enjoyed this duel very much but I think it's the first good lightsaber duel we've gotten in a while
Indeed. Tbf I enjoy most of the duels seen in the other shows and what not too, even the more blatantly silly ones. But this one clearly had a lot more thought put into it. The only thing that I really caught which continues to be a bit of a sticking point is Ahsoka's reverse grip, but that is established as kinda her thing and people will expect that.
I think it just felt so stiff. I know it’s live action but I’m hoping they figure a way to bring more fluidity to Ashoka’s movements
@eireworm at the end of the day you're never going to get Rosario Dawson moving like an animated Ahsoka. But this is an adaptation of that style, just like how Anakin and Obi-Wan in The Clone Wars have an adapted style of their own from their live action counterparts. And ultimately, if nothing else, it should be considered that Ahsoka is simply older than she used to be and has to adapt as she becomes naturally slower and less flexible.
@@eirewormshe's older and it's live action, I doubt they'll make her agile. It will most likely look ridiculous
@paulscott2037 see I think thats an issue to cause Obi and Ana were live action brought to animation and Ahsoka is the reverse. Our expectations were set high to begin with. I agree with your awnser but without the high acrobatics it still feels lacking. Ahsoka aging doesn't seem like that would hinder her all thay much Rosario on the other hand yes
This duel actually feels like a contest between skilled martial artists. They’re not flipping all over the set like in the prequels, but they are fighting deliberately and striking with strength and precision.
I'm genuinely curious to know who is *actually* knocking this fight sequence...
3:25
yea skilled martial artist my ass, she coulda just killed the dude instead of hitting his lightsaber which was already locked with the other blade. Stupid shit like this and Sabine surviving a stab from a lightsaber are why people are giving the show flak. Idk your assessment of "skilled martial artists" makes it seem like you would have identified the prequels as following the "ways of Kendo" or something stupid like that
@@butterhat1938 Safe money is that it's people whose main exposure is through either the Clone Wars show or some of the games, since animated media can do *a lot* more in terms of action scenes than live action.
Personally, I don't see any real difference between this fight and any of the other lightsaber battles we've seen in the movies.
@@butterhat1938 Anyone who slows it down and puts it to even minor scrutiny. This fight is almost as bad as the Sabine/Shin fight and is right on track with the abysmal choreography from the Sequel trilogy. It's clumsy, slow, and full of amateurish swordplay including and ESPECIALLY that overhead block
@@benjaminpeck7200and then people are criticizing prequel duels as overdone... get over yourself
I actually thought the duels have a lot more thought than previously a lot better than in obi wan. This just shows how more intelligent it is though I think it still as not as good as lightsaber combat could be if they added more realistic techniques
To be fair kenobi is a very low bar to clear
@@DatAsuna fair enough but it is not to far off from prequel level
I think it is difficult to use realistic techniques with weightless light swords.
@@goldobisen6234 they don’t treat them like there weightless and many have proven that adding such techniques can make cool lightsaber fights such as corridor digital
Regardless of if they have weight or not, “realistic” is BAD. It is BORING. The must unrealistic stuff in saber fights are what make them cool
Ashoka dodging the lightsaber as it spins back was beautifully done
Ahsoka in animation tends to be much more acrobatic in fights and I wish we did see more jumps or twists in the air
I think it’s pretty realistic for Rosario Dawson’s size and the realization of Ahsoka into a human character. In the animation series, Anakin and the other Jedi were also a lot more stylized and way out of the realms of the real versions we got. I’m thinking specifically about Gendy’s original Clone Wars movies with Mace Windu being an absolute beast.
Everyone in the cartoons fights differently than they do in live action it’s just way more expensive and time consuming to make them fight the same way
Don't forget that this is the oldest and experienced version of Ahsoka we've yet to see. It could be argued that she's less nimble than her younger years. She was already noticeably ''less'' acrobatic in rebels. I'm not saying she can't do acrobacies but with age and experience she isn't in need of the flair she had in her youth.
@@lohengrin5082tell that to Yoda
It's really difficult to make something look believable in life action. It probably would look goofy and jarring to adapt the style 1:1.
To me it's much easier to suspend my disbelief when watching animated media.
I very much enjoyed this duel, personally
No accounting for taste.
@@draconianemanations2785 that was kinda rude
@@macwelch8599 that's okay, I wasn't trying to be nice ✌😜
@@draconianemanations2785 ?
@@draconianemanations2785 Can you just stop hating on every singel comment that says anything good about the scene. Like get a life man. Stop peing so pessimistic
1:03 Taking off capes is always stylish.
I liked the duel I just love the old prequel fx sabers much more. Not complaining tho, as I know the production crew will obviously prefer to use their new lightsaber props that actually give off light. The new effects look arguably better and more realistic but the prequel saber glow just gives a sense of nostalgia. And on the topic of choreography, it was pretty good even if it wasnt nick gillard its still holding up very well in comparison to top tier prequel and ot duels.
Nah it sucked. Several unexploited openings for both combatants, Droid was stupid, so was Ahsoka when she was fighting it and missed several opportunities to dismantle it earlier than she did.
@@draconianemanations2785did you even watch the video?
Just goes to show that most star wars fans will never be satisfied. All fight scenes are going to have "problems". Even the ones that they love but are just blind to.
@@Tiknaps yes.
@@jordonphillips9026 all fight scenes have flaws, not all fight scenes suck. There were flaws in the fight with Palpatine, in Revenge of the Sith, but nothing catastrophic. Dooku vs Kenobi & Anakin (II or III) probably had some flaws, so did Dooku vs Yoda. Those flaws didn't stack up to enough to make the duels seem silly in ANY of those cases though. Same can't be said for Disney duels
i actually like how the lightsabers didnt really pop as much in ahsokas duel. it looks alot more realistic when they dont stand out as much in that scene as they would at night like they did in kenobi for example
One valid criticism is that at 4:36 Ahsoka's follow up move could have been a killing blow or at least one that would have ended the fight while the opponent's blade is occupied. At 6:38 the inquisitor could have also tilted his blade upwards both to defend himself as well as dealing a killing upwards blow. Still like the choreography though. Star Wars has always been about the rule of cool first, and in situations when the rule of cool is genuinely cool, it overcomes our suspension of disbelief. The messy battle over Coruscant in Episode 3 proves this.
I noticed this also. Seen enough Shadiversity fight autopsies to spot things like that now! 😆
Eh. I thought about the stave uppercut move as well but a few things came to mind.
1. Most lightsaber battles also include a Force-user element in terms of anticipation. It’s more a chess match than a reflex battle.
2. If Marrok uses the point of contact (the vertex of Ahsoka’s blades) as the fulcrum of his upswing, it’s a great strike against a regular opponent. However, a Jedi might Force jump (I imagine off to one side) to avoid the blow. And the “opening” may be a chess move by his opponent.
3. If she avoids the blow, he gives up his strong guard by sloping his own top blade toward himself. And if her avoidance still keeps her blades in range, then he is vulnerable to a head strike. The weapon design means his recovery lacks the physical control and power of a standard staff grip.
In short, having spent about 5 classes in the dojo practicing staff combat (thus making me an expert) (because reasons), an upswing would seem like the obvious response for a mortal. However, Jedi have abilities some would call unnatural-
Er, Force-users have more moves than muggles, mmm’kay?
I thought this whole sequence was great. Especially when Ahsoka used the droid as a shield then did that spinning move to get out of the way, just perfect timing on that whole section. I feel like the internet has made a lot of people feel like “experts” in certain areas when they really aren’t. Love this breakdown and I really hope you do the rest, it’s nice to see people giving the choreography it’s flowers because this is one of the best sequences we’ve seen in live action in a while. Can’t wait to see what the other fights in the show have in store for us.
Beyond choreography, it's also worth noting, especially in Star Wars, the intent of the characters always bears meaning on what is going on. AKA - Dueling to kill, Jedi-esque style stonewalling and tiring an opponent out to force a surrender, measuring an opponent by holding back, or whatever else.
The same goes for cinema in general. Not every character is right away out to produce bodies if they get into a fight, even if their opponent sure is. Some will actually attempt to avoid killing if they can.
my issue with the choreography here is that Marrok keeps doing excessive wind ups for his swings, he is not only telegraphing his moves but also leaving himself open. Ahsoka does this two but not as often as the other guy.
In the first episode when I saw Sabean doing that I thought "oh, they're showing that she's inexperienced and doesn't know what she's doing, and the sith lady is more experienced, but not enough to take advantage of the skill gap.
Skill wise Shin looks much the same as Sabean. Sabean while rusty still seems somewhat in control of herself and attempting to buy as much time as her skills will allow. Shin while more skilled is also more emotional. In a way toying with her opponent, because she knows she's better. Which leaves her open more.
Marrok is much the same way. While calculated. His strength comes from his emotional investment. His wide swings are both because of his rage but also meant to intimidate his opponents into believing he has more strength than he actually does. Once he realizes that this style won't crack Asoka. He's out.
Marrok was probably used to fighting with a specific fellow Inquisitor whose style balanced his, and against anyone other than a Republic-era Jedi he'd win easily
They've been doing pretty well with the duels lately. First the Obi-Wan vs Vader fight, now this one. I look forward to seeing the other duels in this series.
4:32 I would like to mention that, based on the angle, it looks like she could have gone for a killing blow against the Inquisitors Torso when she blocked his strike with her right lightsaber. It looks to me she was bringing her left saber up and around to deal with the droid and, as she’s doing this, it could have easier passed through the inquisitor before meeting the droid
I get she’s trying to stall for Hera and to figure out the Inquisitors fighting style but it would be easier just to take him completely out of the picture with that move
Or just lop off a leg at that point. thought so too: slash to stomach or take off the right leg.
true but we've seen her spare Inquisitors before for no reason
@@TheMeta141 that’s true
Your choreography analysis was such a beautiful litany of prose. Loved it! I can't claim to be anything close to an expert on this. I enjoyed listening to your description and thought it made sense as I followed along.
This was a great breakdown, you should definitely do one for every duel in the series because I think they are some of the best we’ve had since ROTS
I mean it wasn't terrible but not perfect. For example at 4:33 Ahsoka has perfect opportunity and free hand to slice the inquisitor. But we need the fight to go on. I think it at least works. It's not what I would expect from either of them, but they will get another chance
Exactly what I was thinking
It's still not as bad as the super obvious "i'm swinging at air and you're dodging anyway" in the Phantom Menice. This looks much more like a real fight with two people that have some level of precog ability and a lot of skill. Fans would be complaining if she iced this guy in the first fight, and maybe she knows something we don't even if she doesn't KNOW it yet.
@@petehjr1 lol, did you really just say this looks better than fights in Phantom menace? I think this fight is one of the better disney fights, but it falls apart when watching it frame by frame. I actually could enjoy it in normal speed tho.
Just dont compare it to any prequel fight please, otherwise i come to expect excitment again xD
@@dietrichvonaken1222 watch the darthmal fight in slow motion like you did here. It's literally worse in every fashion. They swing at air and dodge for no reason like the whole fight.
The prequel fights often suffer from having the opponents far too far away to actually hit one another. They're just bashing sabres together like two kids fighting with sticks. It's painfully obvious theyre not actually trying to hit one another. This fight in Ahsoka is much better in that regard, they actually look like thier trying to hit.
I would LOVE to see more duel analysis videos. It's easy to miss a lot of the great choreography and I liked your takes on this vid, Eck.
Also it’s worth remembering that, if this series is essentially one long movie, then this is just that first initial encounter where they’re sizing each other up and seeing what the other can do. Plus as mentioned, she’s trying to slow it down and stall in order to buy Here and Chopper time to track the ship.
That is a good point. If Ashoka were to quickly overpower him they would have left sooner and might have risked getting her killed if they chased them down. It would make sense she was stalling .Especially with some of her looks and head twists " Oh, this is new" or " really?"
They need to add back the light trails whenever lightsabers swing around. It adds to the fluidity and can cover up for less than perfect coreography.
They do have them they just made it less apparent
I'm pretty sure they still have that but we can't see it since it was daytime.
I love how “natural” this fight feels. The wide shots, rapid action, and interesting strategy make it seem like this is a real battle, with each side quickly throwing everything they have at the other and desperately trying to avoid the deadly plasma blades and electrostaffs flying at them. It feels like everyone in the fight is actually trying to kill each other - and with how Sabine was stabbed in the last duel, there was real tension.
for some reason the fight felt a little less exciting than it could have been. but clearly a lot of thought went into it. i partially blame editing and the framing of certain shots. overall, it's a fine fight for early in the series.
edit* for clarity: the kick honestly felt weak. that's the main thing for me that made me think "really?" you couldn't have put a bit more "umph" into that? in revenge of the sith, when dooku and anakin and obi are fighting, dooku gives a major kick to anakin while *facing the other direction* and anakin goes flying. there's such a thing as a force kick, so why not use it?
other than that i think the design philosophy of the fight was solid overall.
Why does it being early in the series have anything to do with the quality of the fight? If they're going to have a lightsaber fight, it should be a good one.
@@draconianemanations2785 because there's only so much in time and resources that go into production, and i for one would rather they dedicate more time and resources to later in the show when the stakes are higher and we are closer to the climax, rather than to the appetizers that are earlier on in the course of the story. an example: the fight between qui gon and maul is the desert is pretty unmemorable, but that is because it is building to duel of the fates, one of the best duels in all of star wars.
@@airanderal pretty sure we're talking about a multi-billion-dollar company, and I'm pretty sure they've poured money into several of these shows, including Ahsoka / edit: the first fight with Qui-Gon was not unmemorable, it was short. You're comparing apples and oranges imo
@@draconianemanations2785 to each their own. i won’t judge the whole show off of one scene; i’m obviously optimistically assuming they opted to put more money into later in the show. though, i don’t claim to know if the resources are there or not. just because a company has a lot of money doesn’t mean the money is being allocated properly to allow for the best product. ultimately i judge filmmakers for what they are able to do with what resources they’ve been granted, not for what has been corporately withheld for whatever good or bad reason. of course any star wars fan wants disney to put all their funds in the star wars basket, but i don’t believe they are doing that.
Fr I was hoping the kick would atleast send him flying a few feet back, more force powers should be used in fights
Ahsoka has been amazing so far, and her side lean with out looking when his saber flies in from behind? so dope
I liked this fight, but never realised until now seeing your breakdown of it, how well choreographed it was! I need to rewatch it again. And yes, give us every duel breakdown!
I would love to see you break down more fights like this! Very entertaining
This was a great video, I would love to see more lightsaber battle breakdowns for you
I think the choreography was actually pretty good, what let it down was the directing. I’m still not sure if Filoni is necessarily a great choice for these live action projects. These type of shots would’ve looked good in animation where Ahsoka and her opponent would’ve been moving a lot faster, but Rosario Dawson doesn’t seem to have the most stunt fight training either thus the fight feels slow at some points. I think it’s a major improvement over the intro fight, but if this had been shot more dynamically then it could’ve been great.
Rosario is over 40 years old. And she is moving incredibly fast period,if you have ever been in a fight with anything like this it's usually a lot slower with athletic people. What you want is super human speed. They had to mess with the frame rate in ROTS to get the final duel up to the speed they wanted.
@@imjashingyou3461 well to be fair, it is superhuman’s fighting so… yeah
@@DeeDeeDeeeeebut it’s a older ashoka and a more well trained inquister(i don’t know how to spell there names) plus it’s live action not animated u try moving that fast in real life
@@imjashingyou3461 Ray Park is older and he did the motion capture for the Ahsoka vs Maul duel for S7 of Clone Wars. age is not the problem. i'd argue it's the headpiece. they shortened it for live action because she couldn't fight in it, but even still can't be easy moving in that. as for them messing with the frame rate just watch Ewan and Hayden in the BHS they really did move that fast
@@Quan-gotta_goinquisitor
Still better than the sequel fights.
thats not setting the bar very high.
And the prequel fights.
@@paradoxworkshop4659 Please cope more if you think this is better than the Obi-Wan vs Anakin fight.
@@Hightower66wait you're talking about that epic fight where anakin and obin wan are swinging the lightsaber at each other imitating fans, that all the good scenes are either hard to see or were deleted and that has one of the worst fights conclusions? ... i love that one.
@@Hightower66 the floor is lava fight?
Stylised for Cinema.
It didn't read well in the sense that I never really got the impression Obi Wan was trying to not hurt Anakin, or that Anakin was ever really out of control.
Really, though, it comes down to the same physics that I didn't like about Qui-Gon having his hand so close to molten metal in Ep 1 while cutting through the door. If they were so powerful in the force that they could surf on lava without turning into the famous Jedi named Ch'ar-Kol, then they wouldn't have been in much danger by falling in entirely.
The Maul fight was very stylised as well, and more like the hyper katas seen in competitions than actual fights, which are dirty, confused, messy, and brutal.
Kinda like Tai Chi in the park, vs MMA.
great breakdown would def enjoy more of these for this series
Great breakdown thank you for doing this!
06:23 "This is where the choreography shines imo" as Ahsoka clearly strikes away from Marrok when his back is completely uncovered 😂😂
literally xD
The biggest problem i have with Ahsoka's fights is the lack of her mobility. Live action is the worst medium to portay Togruta and Twilek, as their headgear makes stuntwork immensely more difficult. Everything about her feels sluggish because it is compared to anything seen in clone wars. Also we have 2 scenes of her just normally running, not even slightly enhanced by force speed, which also looks just so slow, especially in her complete attire.
Becuase you're applying animation rules to live-action.
@@sirmarshall9521 Thats why EP1-3 had sluggish fights, right? It is not that it is undoable in live action, it is highly difficult. Especially if you only have limited space because of the Volume, which also reduces the application of rigging to stuntdoubles.
For that to work Lucasfilms had to build massive green/bluescreens with double or thrice the space of the Volume that had to have much of the work done in post production. Something Disney just (mostly) cheaps out on.
Dancing around and using the same move over and over isn't how 'duels' with weapons work. The PT has overly coreographed fights that made literally no sense - and the fights weren't 'sluggish' in Ahsoka.@@toastyrules8221
She is 44 years old too. Plus Ashoka is older as well. She is not as fleet of foot as she once was anyway.
Love the analysis. It only increases my enjoyment and appreciation
Definitely enjoyed the breakdown, looking forward to more.
People are just incredibly jaded at this point when it comes to anything Disney Star Wars. I know because I am... I haven't enjoyed much of the D+ output: Boba Fett, Kenobi, Mando season 3, Bad Batch season 1... But I adored Andor and this Ahsoka show has some promise. Hopefully it delivers. So far I'm the most interested in the former jedi and his apprentice/inquisitor.
My only gripe with Ahsoka's fighting style is that she doesn't seem anywhere near as agile, but I get how that might come off as a bit silly in live action, as opposed to how it looked in TCW and Rebels(i.e. Yoda in Attack of the Clones)
I like Rosario Dawson, she's a great actress, and people have got to give her a break. She's 44 and she's probably not agile enough to play twister with the alien worms in men in black 2 any more 😂
@dan79600 True. I have absolutely nothing against Rosario and think that she respects the legacy of the character a lot-- we see that in some of her mannerisms and, obviously, with some ofnher fighting moves.
My gripe was referring more to using a stunt double or CGi to augment her natural agility up into the strata that we know a cartoon ahsoka would be right now. She was trained by one of the best duelists in the history of the Order and at the peak of its power and influence and we've seen how differently the Jedi from that era fight. Yet her style in the show has more in common with the slower, more methodical style that we see take over in Luke's era.
Rosario just doesn't work for me as Ahsoka. She tries really hard though and it is what it is. Ashley would have been a better choice I think. Anyway I don't let it ruin the show, it's still good.
@@moabman6803I don’t think Ashley would’ve worked as Ahsoka in LA due to 1.Ahsoka being highly influenced in Natives,and being black coded 2.Ashley is not as tall as Ahsoka should be (neither is rosario to be fair but still rosario is a lot taller and more suitable) 3.Ashley doesn’t look like Ahsoka,I think rosario was the best choice for Ahsoka,as much as I love Ashley I don’t think she would do well as a LA Ahsoka,but both will forever be THE Ahsoka’s
@Itzkyr0 I disagree. Coding means nothing, she was not raised with her people who i guess kind of resemble American Indians. She was raised by Jedi. Ashley is very expressive naturally, and when she has cosplayed Ahsoka she looks like her. Her manuerisms are very close to Ahsoka naturally. Ahsoka is supposed to be very short. Obiwan and Anakin always were much taller.
I just think fights should be faster man. Ahsoka is so fast in clone wars and rebels. Same with the sabine fight. Sabine wielded the darksaber and yet gets beaten so easily.
Ahsoka CANT be as fast as in animation because that’s impossible and Sabine was fighting a force user that was trained by someone as powerful as a Jedi master
@@cael4065 I mean obi wan vs anakin was pretty fast
really loved this analysis Definitely would like to see more 😊
Plz do more breakdowns of duels. This video was great Eck.
This is one of my favorite lightsaber duels in Star Wars I've seen in live productions honestly. It develops on the vibe set by the Mandalorian episode where she fights against the beskar spear, and it had the aesthetics of a Samurai flick. You've taken the time to look at every move and the choreography is certainly made on this idea of Ahsoka not trying to kill Marrok while he himself is (obviously) outclassed and he knows so from the start.
In a way, this feels how a fight should be. With two opponents probing each other, having their sets of preferred defenses or moves that the other must find out. There was a bit of that in Empire Strikes Back and Phantom Menace, albeit shot a lot more grandiosely. But still, here we just have the fighters and I can't say I dislike it. It just makes serialized samurai flick. Plus, it's just episode 2, what's next must certainly be more increasingly better. At least I hope so. It's different, in a good way
That's my take, she wasn't fighting to kill. She wants knowledge, be that his fighting style and who trained him (and who is under the mask, she may know him after all, she knew most of the other Inquisitors in some way from before the fall), or more likely who sent him (just seeing the ship pick him up gives her information). Also from her experience Inquisitors tend to be fairly talky if they gain the upper hand (this might be the 1st lightsaber duel were no one said anything), so by dragging it out there is every chance he might get chatty.
Also by letting him escape, she sets up an internal squabble for the other side. Dark side force users don't like to appear weak, and by losing (he clearly lost) he is likely to be looked down on, and thus take actions to regain his imagined posistion. Those actions are often sloppy and weaken the dark side users hand.
@@cgi2002 That last part about dark side users preying on each other ... is pretty smart, but I don't know if Ahsoka will go about thinking that way. It's more of a Thrawn thing to exploit such stuff. Jedi like Ahsoka, especially Ahsoka, like to fight only in the battlefield instead of using tricks like that.
@@boganbane your forgetting Ashoka gave up been a purely traditional jedi before the war, the war itself added to her differences from their wags.
Consider she had plenty of run in's with maul who will have taught her a thing or 2 about dark siders infighting, not to mention her experienced with the Inquisitors she met. Throw in she spent the entire war basically acting as a spy, she will have learnt her enemies ways and is smart enough to know to use their weaknesses against them.
Basically she while an expert on the battlefield has had to master working behind the scenes to an extent beyond what any Jedi ever would. Hell she had to for most of the war, actively avoid the battlefield as her mere presence would attract inquisitors or Vader, causing more issues to those she wanted to help than any normal imperial presence could.
@@cgi2002 Fair point. It just felt a bit underhanded is all.
However, I'd like to say that while Ahsoka gave up being a part of the complacent Jedi Order, she never stopped being a purely traditional Jedi. She was still wary of forming attachments, still fighting the good fight, and still avoiding killing people except in battle where it's either her or them.
@@boganbane that's fair but I put that down to her upbringing more than been a Jedi (admittedly they go hand in hand).
She was raised to be selfless, which is a difficult trait to break, especially since her limited social contact was all with other selfless people (the clones litterally were designed to be selfless, other jedi were, and her only other "friends" were Padme and a handful of senators who were all fairly selfless themselves. It wasn't until she left the order she encountered normal people who weren't selfless in large numbers, but she had little to no way to really relate to them by that point. She was also actively been hunted and knew forming attachments risked those people (the few times she did, people died).
Fighting the good fight honestly I see this as just "surviving", she had 2 options run & hide, or fight. She was never one for running, too much pride, also running wasn't a solution at the end of the day, she tried that, she got found. After that fighting just became her way of life, even post war she doesn't know how to be a civilian really, she was never raised to be one, all she has known is war.
As for avoiding killing, that's just basic morality, most people avoid killing, even real world soldiers don't like to kill (it takes alot of training to get them to actually aim at people and kill them, most aim to miss, and that training often involves dehumanising the enemy). Her been trained to be moral from a young age, to actively avoid aggression, explains her lack of killing intent. Jedi are trained to take prisoners were possible, hence why it was such a big deal when Anakin killed Dooku as even without his arms, he remained a threat in reality (enemy commander, powerful knowledge of the force, highly manipulative).
Who the heck is mad about this fight I thought it was great
It’s mostly Twitter. It’s the same group of people who believe TLJ is the best piece of SW content ever made
@dantes9792 Literally the exact opposite lmao, the only people who don't like this are the people who unironically say the sequels ruined star wars for them and hate anything disney and kathleen kennedy touches
@@genericgamer2836 Wut? I really enjoyed this duel, and episodes 7, 8 and 9 did ruin Star Wars, KK did ruin everything she touched, including Star Wars, she single handedly almost destroyed Star Wars AND Indiana Jones.... well she might have actually destroyed Indiana Jones.
There is a reason KK is no longer involved in Star Wars, and a reason why we don't see episode 7, 8 or 9 droid heads and helmets during the intros of Star Wars shows now.
But, I really did enjoy the fight. Overall though it felt like the first two episodes Dave feloni was kinda playing it safe, I hope he breaks out of playing it safe and just goes for it and gives us something even better than Andor.
This is star wars. There’s an entire media ecosystem about complaining over everything.
Love this analysis of the fight.
Very nice redux! Thank-you. This was obviously thought through carefully by the fight coordinator/choreographer.
i ignore most of the ‘fight break downs’ that i see by people who’ve literally never fought with a sword in their life.
Not saying this is or isnt bad, but I hate seeing neckbeards yelling about movement when they’ve never fucking tried it. Most of the time ‘moving slow’ is just… how fast a person moves when they’re swinging around a meter of metal (or celophane wrapped sticks)
Agreed and most especially when said 300lbs neckbeards haven't even left their "throne" in the basement for decades. Like. . .you're criticizing someone's athletic ability when the most exercise you've had is reaching for your cheesypoofs? Really? How bout ya get up off yer throne and do a few laps around the block first Derp Lord Neckbeardius Maximus? 🙄
I say all this as someone who was once a massive lardass growing up. Before I lost that weight and have since taken care not to put it on again.
Yeah... But this arent (in the show) normal People but jedi and a combate droid... By eddition of the scene in post production they should have made it faster
A light saber is weightless tho
Neckbeard give his unqualified opinion, while complaining about other neckbeards giving their unqualified opinions...hilarious but not unexpected.
@@joma-lt2nk swords arent that heavy... Even long sword are meant and build to be usted is prolonged fights....
THIS is the content that Star Wars community needs, pick up perky details to appreciate the amount of detail and dedication behind the series. Thank you Ecks
This breakdown is amazing. Thank you.
Love the in depth duel analysis
If people are complaining about the choreography in this fight, then feloni and his team have done an incredible job.
Agreed.
The Phantom Menace fights looked VERY choreographed.
Wait...why does people complaining about the choreography of this fight mean Feloni has done a good job? 🤔
Personally, I thought the fight was awesome. But then, I don't really care about analyzing it to death, I just think it looks cool. 🤷🏻♂️
@@Theosake as an old guy who watched the first movie in the theater in 1977, I prefer the gritty realism of trilogy #1, and therefore Andor was amazing to these poor old eyes. The prequels looked like plastic, and the sequels just lacked story.
That said, I like all the content, but I don't read fiction, comics, or watch cartoons, so I rely on this and other channels, and commenters to get what Paul Harvey would call, "the rest of the story."
I swear to God this entire series better not let me down.
come on what do you expect😭
I think it already is a let down lmao.
Not looking good
I think it's great so far
Since this is a rebels sequel.. and rebels being my favorite animated star wars series. I agree with you.
Thanks sm for this breakdown!
Very nice breakdown!
What about the nukes the Droid assassins used as a self-destruct feature against Ahsoka?
That would just kill Marok in this case.
It was just an overall boring fight. I didn't feel threatened by the inquisitor and his droid, nor did I feel like Ahsoka was really trying. This was a problem back with The Mandalorian S2 as well, but Rosario fighting as Ahsoka seems very fluid and slow if that makes any sense. Like every clash or swing must be done at a certain snippet of time, rather than as an instinct.
An Inquisitor is not a threat to Ahsoka. But she has to capture this one if possible.
Amazing video! Of how you break down the fight and slow down the footage. Great work 🔥🔥
Very interesting video, thanks!
Always want more saber duel breakdowns
I'm not a huge Star Wars fan (got burnt by the prequels), but I loved Andor, and am looking forward to this. Ahsoka is a character that seems interesting, and the clips I've seen make it feel like the show is exploring the world, not just the same old stuff
Prequels or sequels?
Yeah the fact that they’re exploring Dathomirian witches, new sith-like jedi, possible a new Galaxy?? I mean idk im a Rebels fan so i like it a lot but besides that it has plenty to offer for others, just sucks the pacing is a bit meh
I feel like if they had this fight take place at night or dawn, it would’ve looked much more visually stunning.
It would, but the story needed it to happen just broad daylight as they’re touring the facility. Great for the story, but bad for Epic Lighting and choreo.
True, showing up at dawn and waking up the necessary people would have really added to the urgency of their inquiries as well.
Would be great to see more breakdowns, especially coming from you
To me it felt like they were dancing, instead of fighting for their lives… I know the VFX guys sometimes bring fight choreographers to analyze fighting scenes and I’d really like to know what they think about it. They analyzed the last Jedi final battle when Kylo Ren and Rey fight together… I really liked the slomo and the fact they were actually struggling but when they pointed out how many times Daisy screwed up and when the red guys waited for their turn to strike, I could definitely see how wrong I was. I believe that for a fighting scene to be good needs a combination of good choreography and a good director…
that't he prequel duels, man. that shit looked ridiculous.
Rosario Dawson is AMAZING as Ahsoka. So glad that Filoni found her and she agreed to play the part. She completely embodies who Asoka is, especially at this stage of her life.
Enjoyed the breakdown!
Couldn't agree more with your break down. Keep up the great work my man.
It’s so good to see a well choreographed fight for once… yes it’s not exactly the prequals but it’s a huge step in the right direction in my opinion.
Please do analyze the light saber combat scenes it would be fun, also I actually really like that fight and Marook did better than 5th brother and 7th sister did against Asoka
I would love to see more duel breakdowns. I have a really slow brain and this helps me understand the fights so much more.
Very good breakdown. 👍
It's so amazing to see Ahsoka's version of Shien (the other version of Form V) in live action. She is so bloody deadly.
I think the kick was effective because Marrok was probably going to string a counterattack or so. I don't know what Form he's using (Juyo? He IS an Inquisitor, and they favor the saberstaff) but he's aggressive and loves going on the offensive.
He was probably committing to an attack and when you get met halfway through that by something - Ahsoka's foot in this case - you tend to lose your balance a bit.
This duel feels very much a happy medium between the artistry of the prequels and the practicality of the classics.
More of this please.
I LOVED THIS VIDEO PLEASE DO MORE !!!
Really liked this fight, it wasn't just a lightsaber duel but a fight where both sides were stalling for time - Winning would be nice but it was all about the hyperdrive
It's miles ahead of anything we got in Kenobi, both in shooting and choreography. Rosario is rocking these fights!
Something tells me Marrok will end up being a more threatening villain than both Shin and Baylan
I don't actually. The idea here is to sell the villains as competent so when she fights Baylan it can appear to be harder than it would have if she had wiped out Marrok on their first fight.
I thought it was great! Loved your breakdown
Awesome analysis!
I enjoyed it. Ahsoka has been just plain better than any inquisitor she's fought so she seems to not be too aggressive about ending it, almost as if she's enjoying the practice until they pull something that forces her to get more serious or they light the second blade. They think it's going to intimidate her and she just find that annoying and insulting. That's when she goes to work.
Fans watching this show are at this point expecting to be let down and are looking for ways to do so. This is not the show that will let us down judging by the first two episodes.
Eck,
Thanks for your analysis that articulated why the duel was so great.
I know having a lightsaber duel in the day is a sore point for some fans. But I thought the scene worked well and fits with the story being told.
I look forward to your analysis of future duels on Ahsoka.
you clearly do a great job of breaking down the fight from a technical standpoint, i would just add from a sort of behind the scenes vantage that it take a long time to not just choreograph these fights but for the actors to become proficient in lightsaber combat. as this was only episode two and could easily have been the first fight they filmed it's easy to imagine that this one was only dialed up to 4 or 5. i expect later episodes to have stronger and more dynamic fight sequences as the actors and crew get up to speed.
The droid is armed with a _spear._ THRUST, DAMMIT! Not one thrust; all of them are swings and slashes, which is fine when you're doing Wushu-style dance choreography but not when you're trying to kill someone with it. If you think the criticisms of this fight are mean now, wait until Corridor gets their swordmaster pal back on.
It is not really a spear but more like a halberd. It has a blade and if your enemy has 2 and you have an ally, thrusts are easily countered and you risk skewering your ally. The sweeps limit counters and keeps your enemy farther away. It also keeps your enemy in a more controlled space for your ally to also attack within.
She almost age 50, & moves better then a 25 year old 🔥
loved the fight. loved this break down.
I'd love to see more of these.
He wasn't there to defeat her ..he was there to stall her and test the water
“She shifts her strength to the much weaker droid”
4:24 (Marrok is a droid)
Would love to get more duel analyses!
Love the break down.
Thanks so much for the breakdown of this battle. The fight was believable and entertaining to watch.
Thank you so much for breaking this down. So many people are complaining about this dual, totally overlooking that it’s meticulous.
I loved the spinning saber throw at the end. Closest we'll get to Disney giving us a new tron movie
We need more eck saber fight breakdowns
This added to my enjoyment of the duel. If you haven’t already, can you do a breakdown of the duel between Sabine and Shin?
This is why I love star wars and this channel
Beautiful thank you very much bro
This was a great fight and well analysed, there are a couple of iffy moments in there but it was really well done for the most part.
Great breakdown