I owned both a 1917 Eddystone Enfield and a 1903-A3 Springfield some 45 years ago. I preferred the 1917 Enfield over the 1903 Springfield at that time. I sold both of these rifles many years ago . However, I recently picked up another 1917 Eddystone Enfield for Military Rifle Competition at the Range. Regards, Gungineer, Mike Piekarski
Battle sight on the M1903 was set to 547 yards from the factory. You should of just held center mass and fired. Assuming your windage is correct you’d been on. I understand the fog didn’t help anything though.
The 1917 front sights are the best sights. For leading a moving target zig zagging along and for windage adjustment. Between the two wings and the post a target can be quickly placed. There was and still maybe a UK WW 2 training film that goes into this for the P14.
If I'm not mistaken, you don't need to manually remove the stripper clip. The bridge is designed to eject the clip on closing. It's also this way for the Enfield No.1 mkIII
My local VFW uses Enfield M1917s for honor guards, 21 gun salutes, etc. At our last 4th of July celebration, they had one on display. Some kids says "Oh look, an '03 Springfield!" From 25 feet away, I pointed out the difference in the sight location, and the "belly" in the stock, explaining it was an Enfield M1917. He had never even heard of that rifle. I know it's heavier, but if I had my choice, I'd take the M1917 for the extra magazine capacity and the sights. I'm a big guy, who deer hunts with a 10 gauge double barrel, so I don't think the weight would deter me.
There is one seemingly little, but actually pretty big thing that seems to keep getting overlooked in the P14/M1917 design. The cock on closing action, safety placement and bolt handle placement just over the trigger are Lee-Enfield inspired. The bolt and extractor are Mauser copies, but the P14 and by extension, the M1917 achieved their primary extraction with a cam lug on the bolt in line with the bolt handle. A feature that was copied from the M1903. That little lug makes a world of difference when extracting stuck cases.
I loved the balance and feel of the M1903, and I could shoot it really well, prone, with the ladder up and wrapped up in the sling. Otherwise, it was almost unusable. Length of pull was about right for a guy 4’ 10” tall. I read somewhere, that they wanted to shorten the overall length for cavalry use, but didn’t want to take anymore off the barrel, so they shortened the butt. My Winchester M-1917 was superior in every way but weight. The windage adjustment, or lack thereof, is neither here nor there. In combat, nobody really had time to be twisting a windage knob. The so called “mad minute” technique is actually a technique that was developed about mid way through WW2, it was only for CQB where you needed to shoot fast, but accuracy wasn’t important. Otherwise, it was heavily stressed that the proper shooting grip be taken for each shot. I too shoot from the left shoulder, I can pretty much keep up with all but the best right handers. The key is keeping the rifle in the shoulder, the left thumb lifts the bolt handle, two fingers pull it back, and the thumb pushes the bolt home and turns it down. Using this technique, you can easily keep up with the righties.
As usual I’m late to the party but at least I found ya. Great video for so many reasons. I collect and live in the C&R world and it’s great to see these great old service rifles out in the muck doing exactly what they were designed to do. Collectors all to often treat their guns like. Holy relics. Running them in the rain and dropping them in the mud illustrates just how rugged they were built - even if the ‘03 went down. If you were in harms way and had to return fire, you could still get her to function. Btw. The Enfield will eject the charger when you run the bolt home. Efficiency in movement. No need to strip it out like the ‘03.
I know I’m late to the party, but great video! I have a 1917 made 7/18 and I love it. As for the mud, these rifles are no stranger to it. Granted it isn’t French mud, but all the same, I’m sure it remembered those conditions well.
Nice to see them run side by side. As for the 1903 not catching the firing pin. Had that with a Mauser, bolt worn and replaced. When closing bolt pushing down on the rear of the bolt engages the firing pin. Lifting the bolt when charging firing pin is over run due to wear.
Seems like the trigger mechanism isn’t holding the firing pin back when you push the bolt forward. Better fix that problem. That’s not safe at all. Could go bang before you get the bolt all the way forward and down.
Great video! As an Enfield fanboy I really enjoyed watching that M1917 power through like the champ it is! What was the problem with the Springfield? Did you ever find out?
That’s for watching! And yes. At some point, a bubba got a hold of it and more than likely filed down the sear surface on the striker to have a “trigger job” done on it. A new striker unit fixed the problem.
i bought my first remington m 1917 rifle about 30 plus years ago i named it the ugly it looks like it has been beating rocks its whole life the barrel date is 1-18 i created a shoot at my club for military original bolt action rifles , bench rest 10 inch plates at 250 yards. the ugly is well known at my club it has many wins in competition and not with just me i have loaned it to other club members for this competition always 1st and 2nd place wins i have put over 6000 rounds through the ugly and it still shoots like a national match rifle which it is not, it is all pitted on the receiver it really is ugly but all original but it shoots like it has eyes i have other m1917 rifles, but none shoot as good as the ugly thank you for your video, it brought back good memory's
Gotta love how sometimes a beat up old rifle can shoot like a champ. I've seen some pristine looking rifles shoot like garbage because the bore looked like a sewer pipe, likely from lack of cleaning after shooting corrosive ammo. The M1917 has a reputation for being a 1.5 MOA gun with 150 grain ammo because it used a 5 groove 1 in 10 Left-Hand twist. The P14 shot 174 grain 303 british and has a fantastic accuracy reputation, likely due to the heavier bullet. My own P14 gets consistent half inch groups with PPU brass and basic Hornady 174 grain FMJ-BT bullets.
I really enjoyed this video. Made my first trip to the CMP this week to get a Garand, and already trying to figure out which bolt gun to get on the next trip. One question though, where did you get your replica M1907 slings? Want one for the Garand.
Honestly, I don’t remember where I got the sling! I’m sure a quick google search will bring you some results. And for the next bolt gun, I vote M1917. But if you go with a 1903 you are still getting an awesome rifle! Good luck.
American Olympic rifle team won aggregate gold w/ Springfield Amory M1903 RIFLES w/ Lyman receiver sights, just following ww1. I am blessed w/ 1ea. Versions of
The spring for the piece that is between the trigger and the firing pin. Spring should be pushing up to engage the firing pin. Or the sear is worn and needs replacing.
Hey man I am also a left hander how did you run the 1917 so smooth I have trouble getting it to close smoothly when I use that method you used ,because of the cock on close.
Random thoughts. I hope you do your own laundry! :-D Spit, or cleaning with a non abrasive soap on your eye pro will help keep them from fogging so badly! If any of your viewers wonder how loud a .223 is with a can, they can hear it at the beginning of the video. Probably about 80 yards, with barriers between the rifle and your phone, and it was pretty darned loud! Your spotter/cameraman not only did a fine job, but he's very good looking for an old goat! ;-) If you ever get the time, do the "Mad Minute" at the club. They set aside a day in the Fall for old rifles like yours, but the rest of the time you can use a semi-auto, if you like. Or, just use one of your oldies! Lots of fun! Did you get the "Reluctant Rifle" to the smith yet? If so, what's the deal? Finally, nice job, young man!
Just bought a very tastefully sporterized Winchester 1917. It’s minty fresh as far as everything. I’m against sporterizing but the way it was done makes it superior to the original. Bunny ears machined off but sights left intact. The wood is immaculate, and the receiver and barrel are beautifully blued and look brand new inside and out. The rifling is immaculate.
You never really see the ears chopped with the sights left intact. Every 1917 sporter I've seen was fully chopped to attach scope rings and if an iron sight was there, it was usually a cheap flip up notch and blade sight with a chopped barrel.
So has anyone noticed that a large amount of gun UA-camrs-"gun tubers" are left handed. ( im right handed btw) but...Maybe because alot of leftys are individualist and go off of logic and facts rather than popular opinions. Thus causing them to make their own personal decisions upon their own life experiences. Idk but if any one has to to a project piece for their major involving psychology or sociology it might be a interesting route to go on.
Back after WWI. Sgt York , when asked which rifle he preferred. His answer was the " 03". Not sure, if he used the 17 when he earned his medal of honor
![U.S. Rifle M1917 [Sgt. York's WW1 Medal of Honor Story ] to 500yds: Practical Accuracy](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/OYunBYZyCY8/mqdefault.jpg)
I owned both a 1917 Eddystone Enfield and a 1903-A3 Springfield some 45 years ago. I preferred the 1917 Enfield over the 1903 Springfield at that time. I sold both of these rifles many years ago . However, I recently picked up another 1917 Eddystone Enfield for Military Rifle Competition at the Range.
Regards,
Gungineer,
Mike Piekarski
Battle sight on the M1903 was set to 547 yards from the factory. You should of just held center mass and fired. Assuming your windage is correct you’d been on. I understand the fog didn’t help anything though.
The 1917 front sights are the best sights. For leading a moving target zig zagging along and for windage adjustment. Between the two wings and the post a target can be quickly placed. There was and still maybe a UK WW 2 training film that goes into this for the P14.
If I'm not mistaken, you don't need to manually remove the stripper clip. The bridge is designed to eject the clip on closing. It's also this way for the Enfield No.1 mkIII
My local VFW uses Enfield M1917s for honor guards, 21 gun salutes, etc. At our last 4th of July celebration, they had one on display. Some kids says "Oh look, an '03 Springfield!" From 25 feet away, I pointed out the difference in the sight location, and the "belly" in the stock, explaining it was an Enfield M1917. He had never even heard of that rifle. I know it's heavier, but if I had my choice, I'd take the M1917 for the extra magazine capacity and the sights. I'm a big guy, who deer hunts with a 10 gauge double barrel, so I don't think the weight would deter me.
I owned both of these rifles. The Springfield 1903a3 only had sights graduated to 800 yards.
The P17 ladder sights were good for over a mile.
There is one seemingly little, but actually pretty big thing that seems to keep getting overlooked in the P14/M1917 design. The cock on closing action, safety placement and bolt handle placement just over the trigger are Lee-Enfield inspired. The bolt and extractor are Mauser copies, but the P14 and by extension, the M1917 achieved their primary extraction with a cam lug on the bolt in line with the bolt handle. A feature that was copied from the M1903. That little lug makes a world of difference when extracting stuck cases.
I loved the balance and feel of the M1903, and I could shoot it really well, prone, with the ladder up and wrapped up in the sling. Otherwise, it was almost unusable. Length of pull was about right for a guy 4’ 10” tall. I read somewhere, that they wanted to shorten the overall length for cavalry use, but didn’t want to take anymore off the barrel, so they shortened the butt. My Winchester M-1917 was superior in every way but weight. The windage adjustment, or lack thereof, is neither here nor there. In combat, nobody really had time to be twisting a windage knob. The so called “mad minute” technique is actually a technique that was developed about mid way through WW2, it was only for CQB where you needed to shoot fast, but accuracy wasn’t important. Otherwise, it was heavily stressed that the proper shooting grip be taken for each shot. I too shoot from the left shoulder, I can pretty much keep up with all but the best right handers. The key is keeping the rifle in the shoulder, the left thumb lifts the bolt handle, two fingers pull it back, and the thumb pushes the bolt home and turns it down. Using this technique, you can easily keep up with the righties.
As usual I’m late to the party but at least I found ya. Great video for so many reasons. I collect and live in the C&R world and it’s great to see these great old service rifles out in the muck doing exactly what they were designed to do. Collectors all to often treat their guns like. Holy relics.
Running them in the rain and dropping them in the mud illustrates just how rugged they were built - even if the ‘03 went down. If you were in harms way and had to return fire, you could still get her to function.
Btw. The Enfield will eject the charger when you run the bolt home. Efficiency in movement. No need to strip it out like the ‘03.
The mad minute was only used with the Lee action not the Mauser. The 1914 303 were used mainly for sniping not in the trenches as a fighting rifle.
I know I’m late to the party, but great video! I have a 1917 made 7/18 and I love it. As for the mud, these rifles are no stranger to it. Granted it isn’t French mud, but all the same, I’m sure it remembered those conditions well.
Awesome video. I'd love to have a 1917, I do have a 1903 a3 and it's my pride and joy
I'd take the 1917 Enfield over the 03 any day.
You're welcome
Enjoyed the vid, just what I was looking for!
@ 4:00 With the Model 1903A3 Springfield, the rifles were now equiped with rear mounted Aperture Sights.
Yeh, for that reason the A3 & the 17 make the best comparison
NOW THATS HOW YOU TRAIN. Good job dude
💪🏽
Came for the comparison. Subbed for being a left handed shooter
Nice to see them run side by side. As for the 1903 not catching the firing pin. Had that with a Mauser, bolt worn and replaced. When closing bolt pushing down on the rear of the bolt engages the firing pin. Lifting the bolt when charging firing pin is over run due to wear.
Seems like the trigger mechanism isn’t holding the firing pin back when you push the bolt forward. Better fix that problem. That’s not safe at all. Could go bang before you get the bolt all the way forward and down.
I heard over 1400 yards the 1903 sights are off.
great video hey do a update on the cz p10c because i am thinking about buying one
@@GunsStuff glocks are good
Great video! As an Enfield fanboy I really enjoyed watching that M1917 power through like the champ it is!
What was the problem with the Springfield? Did you ever find out?
That’s for watching! And yes. At some point, a bubba got a hold of it and more than likely filed down the sear surface on the striker to have a “trigger job” done on it. A new striker unit fixed the problem.
Weak spring to cock the action?
I love both rifles but prefer the 1917
The M1917 is the truth! Shot mine out to 1000 yards with ease. Crazy!
i bought my first remington m 1917 rifle about 30 plus years ago i named it the ugly it looks like it has been beating rocks its whole life the barrel date is 1-18 i created a shoot at my club for military original bolt action rifles , bench rest 10 inch plates at 250 yards. the ugly is well known at my club it has many wins in competition and not with just me i have loaned it to other club members for this competition always 1st and 2nd place wins i have put over 6000 rounds through the ugly and it still shoots like a national match rifle which it is not, it is all pitted on the receiver it really is ugly but all original but it shoots like it has eyes i have other m1917 rifles, but none shoot as good as the ugly thank you for your video, it brought back good memory's
Gotta love how sometimes a beat up old rifle can shoot like a champ. I've seen some pristine looking rifles shoot like garbage because the bore looked like a sewer pipe, likely from lack of cleaning after shooting corrosive ammo. The M1917 has a reputation for being a 1.5 MOA gun with 150 grain ammo because it used a 5 groove 1 in 10 Left-Hand twist. The P14 shot 174 grain 303 british and has a fantastic accuracy reputation, likely due to the heavier bullet. My own P14 gets consistent half inch groups with PPU brass and basic Hornady 174 grain FMJ-BT bullets.
Great video, what I saw overtime was fatigue, still a great vid.
What happened with bolt on 1903? Was lip on the bottom of firing pin shaft slipping?
I really enjoyed this video. Made my first trip to the CMP this week to get a Garand, and already trying to figure out which bolt gun to get on the next trip. One question though, where did you get your replica M1907 slings? Want one for the Garand.
Honestly, I don’t remember where I got the sling! I’m sure a quick google search will bring you some results. And for the next bolt gun, I vote M1917. But if you go with a 1903 you are still getting an awesome rifle! Good luck.
No rifle from around 1905 is going to be tactile until 1920s with experimental stuff at best.
American Olympic rifle team won aggregate gold w/ Springfield Amory M1903 RIFLES w/ Lyman receiver sights, just following ww1. I am blessed w/ 1ea. Versions of
they would have done bette with 1917s
The spring for the piece that is between the trigger and the firing pin. Spring should be pushing up to engage the firing pin. Or the sear is worn and needs replacing.
Hey man I am also a left hander how did you run the 1917 so smooth I have trouble getting it to close smoothly when I use that method you used ,because of the cock on close.
72GMC don’t be afraid to slam the bolt when chambering a new cartridge. Your not gonna hurt the rifle!
I have a 1917
Worn Cocking Pawl Perhaps?
Random thoughts. I hope you do your own laundry! :-D
Spit, or cleaning with a non abrasive soap on your eye pro will help keep them from fogging so badly!
If any of your viewers wonder how loud a .223 is with a can, they can hear it at the beginning of the video. Probably about 80 yards, with barriers between the rifle and your phone, and it was pretty darned loud!
Your spotter/cameraman not only did a fine job, but he's very good looking for an old goat! ;-)
If you ever get the time, do the "Mad Minute" at the club. They set aside a day in the Fall for old rifles like yours, but the rest of the time you can use a semi-auto, if you like. Or, just use one of your oldies! Lots of fun!
Did you get the "Reluctant Rifle" to the smith yet? If so, what's the deal?
Finally, nice job, young man!
Cool, but who did your laundry? 😆😆😆
Just bought a very tastefully sporterized Winchester 1917. It’s minty fresh as far as everything. I’m against sporterizing but the way it was done makes it superior to the original. Bunny ears machined off but sights left intact. The wood is immaculate, and the receiver and barrel are beautifully blued and look brand new inside and out. The rifling is immaculate.
You never really see the ears chopped with the sights left intact. Every 1917 sporter I've seen was fully chopped to attach scope rings and if an iron sight was there, it was usually a cheap flip up notch and blade sight with a chopped barrel.
Too bad they didn’t make left handed rifles fo most models. Doesn’t really help lefties at all.
Slamfiring 1903 springfield.... get it looked at by a gunsmith my dude.
So has anyone noticed that a large amount of gun UA-camrs-"gun tubers" are left handed. ( im right handed btw) but...Maybe because alot of leftys are individualist and go off of logic and facts rather than popular opinions. Thus causing them to make their own personal decisions upon their own life experiences. Idk but if any one has to to a project piece for their major involving psychology or sociology it might be a interesting route to go on.
M1903 is a target rifle.
Back after WWI. Sgt York , when asked which rifle he preferred. His answer was the " 03". Not sure, if he used the 17 when he earned his medal of honor
No offense but you are a mirror image 9f Donald Sutherland, ODD BALL ..."Kelly's Heroes"..Great video!!
1967....Had a chance to buy a " 17" caked real thick with preservative for two dollars and fifty cents.....lol....
SUBSCRIBED..Love ya !!! GREAT JOB!!!
You must be fr9m Pennsylvania, we boys from New York Luv ya!! Not NYC,ALBANY, SYRACUSE, or any commuist city 8n NY..