My Grandfather was issued an Enfield P 17. He really liked that rifle. He trained on both the 1884 Trapdoor Springfield and the 1903 Springfield during his time in the National Guard 1908 to 1917. When he shipped out to France they had only just been issued the new rifles. He found it to be much easier to shoot well. He told me of the difficulty of using the 1903 Springfield. He said the Enfield sights were superior and very easy to use quickly. He was also issued a 1917 S&W revolver. He found it funny as he did not fire either in anger as he was an artillery officer. As always this is a great presentation. Much good information.
Yep, they are good combat sights; 03 has good target sights for young eyes at that. The S&W M1917 is a fun revolver. I prefer it over the Colt subvariant personally.
Misha I can not use standard 1903 sights. I totally agree that the 1917 S&W is a fine revolver. I had a Brazilian version cut down to a snub nosed revolver. It’s a fine carry gun.
The M1917 is still in use today by Sirius Sled Partrol, a tiny 14 man Danish sled dog unit that patrols Greenland all year round. They’re issued Glocks as side arms and the M1917 because it’s accuracy and tolerances remain unaffected by the extreme cold conditions in Greenland, and the 30-06 is big enough to dump the occasional polar bear that might attempt an attack on their sled dogs.
Nice video! I like my 1903 as it feels more "sporty" and is easy to handle. My M1917 is longer and heavier but also has a nice recoil and the sights are much better. The M1917 never got the respect it deserved. The M1917 saw a lot of action early in WW2 in the Philippines I believe. A little oddity; used to be if you walk out the front door of the old O Club at Benning and look down, there was, not unexpectedly, a set of crossed rifles inset into the stone of the porch. They’re were not muskets. They’re were not Springfields. They’re were M1917s. Wonder if their still there.
Another comment. Overall the best compromise of accuracy, workmanship, features could be the 1903 a3. My son and I have the a3 and are so pleased. Thanks for the response and your video that keeps the discussion active. As another note, I worked at the eddystone plant here in Pennsylvania. The munitions factory in eddystone was operated by the Baldwin locomotive company. On another munitions project at eddystone, a large explosion took place. The cause is unknown. Later the Baldwin works was sold to the Boeing company, my employer, where CH 47 helicopters were produced. As a facility engineer at that plant, it was necessary to examine the old records for utilities, foundations, and other old items used in the past. So you see that the m 1917 has a special connection to me.
My great-grandfather carried an M1917 during WW1, he stole the bayonet which we still have. I'd like to pick up an M1917 but they seem to be very rare where I live, I see Springfields regularly but I've never seen an M1917 here.
My great grandfather&his brother Served in the US Army in WW1 and were issued the M1917 i have a news article titled "The Bailey boys get there Huns",one (Grampa Seth) used his 1917 rifle his Brother a demolition charge of some sort maybe a satchel charge? and the M1917 i own is the pride of my bolt gun collection we call her the Bailey special and use it in mil-surp competitions thank you for another great video
I have a Winchester 1917. It’s hands down my favorite. It’s also my first 30-06. My minty VZ24 Romanian contract is an amazing carbine, a true Mauser, fantastically accurate, but i believe that the M1917 Winchester is a superior rifle.
Correct!! The American Enfield always gets grossly overshadowed by the Springfield. We rarely hear much about the Enfield being in US standard issue for a period of time, always defaulting to the 1903 and then we often go directly to the Trench Shotguns or the advent of the Bren and Machineguns. History during this time was a very busy bugger, often shrouding other important/causality of other events/leaps in tech. Such an in depth video, really appreciate the detail and time in explaining. Why have I never seen this channel?? Firearm channels are my focus, yet UA-cam does what they can to bury them... A day truly doesn't start for me until I read the Word, smell some cordite or virtually live vicariously through a channel :) New sub here.
The m1917 looks cool, I like the flip peep ladder rear sight and it’s durable strong action...but at the end of the day, as you say, the length and weight cannot be ignored. I’d go with the m1903
I like both of them but I have to say I prefer my model of 1917. Unrelated to my preference about 2 years after buying the 1917 I was told that it is the model issued to my grandfather in the trenches of France. Growing up I only saw training pictures of him with a Krag. Also he musterd out with a Krag so this surprised me.
Fair assessment. 👏 My grandfather born and raised in England moved to USA ad a young man and went into the French trenches for the US and was shot. But lived for me to tell his story.
I can understand you, but for me I just have this thing for British firearms. They have a 'different' type of beauty. The M1903 is more traditional and objectively nicer looking.
@@misha5670 I feel the same way about Russian rifles. Although I only own one Russian designed rifle, the SKS, and even though mine is a Type 56 Chinese, there’s something about the utilitarian simplicity of it that I prefer over better looking battle rifles in it’s class.
I've got a sporterized M1917 that was my grandfathers. Unfortunately my dad left it quite dirty. Though ive cleaned it up ive never fired it for fear that it could be pitted within the barrel.
My Dad bought the 1917 Enfield in the mid-40's & sporterized it .Original price was $7.50 but i noticed you were able to crank the bolt and dry fire the rifle. i'm not able to close the bolt without pushing down on the " follower ?" I'm wondering, did i miss you pushing it down or what ? it's always bugged me a little and also how can i tell if the barrel has been changed out ? Thank you for your time & great vid ! Peace ...
Great video, like the content, keep up the good work. Always wondered which rifle is better for customizing for modern cartridges with higher pressures. My guess is the 1917 is stronger.
I can understand; its lighter and shorter, and for a civilian target shooter it has more finely adjustable sights. Also its a major part of American history.
The 1917 is still used by the Danish Navy Sirius Dog Sled Patrol who operate in north eastern Greenland. The 30 06 cartridge is excellent for fending off aggressive polar bears and musk ox.
It’s such a tough decision in my opinion between the 1903 and 1917. I have both and originally in my opinion the 1903 was the “better” weapon but in all honesty the more I shoot the 1917 the more I like it and closer of a battle between the 2 as far as “better” it becomes. The 1903 has much more technical sights that are superior in a way for target shooting but the 1917 sights are far more practical for actual combat and assuming you have a front sight tool to get your windage squared away it shoots every bit as well as the 1903 as long as you figure out how to get your head up close to that rear peep sight and centered. The sights are much better protected both front and rear by ears. The 1903 wins in the category of weight and portability by a small margin. Both are essentially Mauser actions with an American/British influence on the design. Etc etc it’s a back and forth argument 😆 screw it. Buy them both and enjoy shooting a piece of history is the inevitable outcome.
I have a p-14 made by Remington that has finger grooves. At first i figured it had a 1917 stock but it does have British proof stamps on the buttstock so im guessing its correct?
England received large numbers of M1917s as lend-lease, usually issuing them to the Home Guard since they were in an odd caliber for the UK. Could be your P14 got put in a P17 stock during a rebuild or could be a replacement stock mfg in England during the refurb program in the 1930s. Also could be that late production P14s had the grooves but 'experts' have insisted to me they didn't. So i play it safe. Good rule of thumb is grooves = M1917 though.
@@misha5670 Interesting. I didnt know they had any 1917s in England. It does look like some kind of replacement. It doesn't match the handguards and is really flat looking like it wasnt oiled much. Im going to have to look at it again to try to find a manufacturer stamp. Thanks.
Typically in England, they painted a red stripe on the buttstock of their P17s so there wouldn't be any caliber-confusions. In the late 1930s, a company named MOrris made replacement P14 stocks for the gov't. Not sure if these had the grooves but its entirely possible. An original WWI era P14 stock would have the hole for the front volley sight, where as an M1917 wouldn't.
There are new stocks on eBay for $230 that are really nice but no handguard or metal furniture so you would have to get everything in pieces and put it together.
Both excellent rifles, the o3's are more sexy , sleek , more American lol, have all three 17,03,A3, and the Garand, we have never been outclassed or under gunned, but i hold the K98 in very high regard, fully understand why we modeled after it, excellent rifle
I have an early '03, and USED to have an M1917, which my grandfather carried in the Great War...I got stupid and let the Enfield go--somebody kick me. :p
Honestly? we all make those stupid decisions. Its even more fun when we know even at the time its something we'll regret...and we go on and do it anyway lol.
New popular thing on the rise... 'Omg they should have chosen the M1917 over the M1903! Because rear aperture sight!' No, they should have immediately started swapping rear aperture sights onto them, like they did for the M1903A3. Choosing the M1917 isn't necessary for that. Also, eyes were set on a self-loading rifle after WW1, and the US used those M1917's later on to reequip the British Army after Dunkirk.
The M1903 was America's rifle made at America's classic armory. That said, peep sights were the big thing following WWI for sure. The US was interested in a self-loading rifle sure, just it didn't want to put any money or time into one....at least not for about a decade. Of course when we did finally get serious, we made the best damn semi auto rifle of WWII, and made it early. I am talking of course about the M1941 Johnson lol j/k.
![U.S. Rifle M1917 [Sgt. York's WW1 Medal of Honor Story ] to 500yds: Practical Accuracy](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/OYunBYZyCY8/mqdefault.jpg)
This channel is so under rated. You do a great job.
My Grandfather was issued an Enfield P 17. He really liked that rifle. He trained on both the 1884 Trapdoor Springfield and the 1903 Springfield during his time in the National Guard 1908 to 1917. When he shipped out to France they had only just been issued the new rifles. He found it to be much easier to shoot well. He told me of the difficulty of using the 1903 Springfield. He said the Enfield sights were superior and very easy to use quickly. He was also issued a 1917 S&W revolver. He found it funny as he did not fire either in anger as he was an artillery officer. As always this is a great presentation. Much good information.
Yep, they are good combat sights; 03 has good target sights for young eyes at that. The S&W M1917 is a fun revolver. I prefer it over the Colt subvariant personally.
Misha I can not use standard 1903 sights. I totally agree that the 1917 S&W is a fine revolver. I had a Brazilian version cut down to a snub nosed revolver. It’s a fine carry gun.
The M1917 is still in use today by Sirius Sled Partrol, a tiny 14 man Danish sled dog unit that patrols Greenland all year round. They’re issued Glocks as side arms and the M1917 because it’s accuracy and tolerances remain unaffected by the extreme cold conditions in Greenland, and the 30-06 is big enough to dump the occasional polar bear that might attempt an attack on their sled dogs.
Nice video! I like my 1903 as it feels more "sporty" and is easy to handle. My M1917 is longer and heavier but also has a nice recoil and the sights are much better. The M1917 never got the respect it deserved. The M1917 saw a lot of action early in WW2 in the Philippines I believe. A little oddity; used to be if you walk out the front door of the old O Club at Benning and look down, there was, not unexpectedly, a set of crossed rifles inset into the stone of the porch. They’re were not muskets. They’re were not Springfields. They’re were M1917s. Wonder if their still there.
Yes , they are still there
@@mooremike100 nice
Don't forget the M1917 service with X Force and Denmark, the latter of which still uses it today in Greenland with the Sirius Dog Sled Patrol!
A U.S. general said the p-13 design was the best bolt gun in ww1.
I like both formats. Thanks for the video guys.
Kia Ora from NZ Mishca.
I LOVE your videos.
Tatou VERY much.
I love this channel.
BTW: my rifles do have cleaning rods in their stocks....well cleaning ropes to be exact hehe.
@@misha5670 xD
Another comment. Overall the best compromise of accuracy, workmanship, features could be the 1903 a3. My son and I have the a3 and are so pleased. Thanks for the response and your video that keeps the discussion active. As another note, I worked at the eddystone plant here in Pennsylvania. The munitions factory in eddystone was operated by the Baldwin locomotive company. On another munitions project at eddystone, a large explosion took place. The cause is unknown. Later the Baldwin works was sold to the Boeing company, my employer, where CH 47 helicopters were produced. As a facility engineer at that plant, it was necessary to examine the old records for utilities, foundations, and other old items used in the past. So you see that the m 1917 has a special connection to me.
My great-grandfather carried an M1917 during WW1, he stole the bayonet which we still have. I'd like to pick up an M1917 but they seem to be very rare where I live, I see Springfields regularly but I've never seen an M1917 here.
Please remain at home....agents are on the way to recover that piece of gov't property. Thank you citizen for alerting us.
Kennard - contact me. I have one for sale.
The cmp sells the m1917
My great grandfather&his brother Served in the US Army in WW1 and were issued the M1917 i have a news article titled "The Bailey boys get there Huns",one (Grampa Seth) used his 1917 rifle his Brother a demolition charge of some sort maybe a satchel charge? and the M1917 i own is the pride of my bolt gun collection we call her the Bailey special and use it in mil-surp competitions
thank you for another great video
The Bastard Child, Sgt York showed just how effective the 1917 was. I have one and love it.
I enjoyed this format as I have wondered for quite awhile what the detailed differences were.
Happy you liked it, cheers.
I have a Winchester 1917. It’s hands down my favorite. It’s also my first 30-06. My minty VZ24 Romanian contract is an amazing carbine, a true Mauser, fantastically accurate, but i believe that the M1917 Winchester is a superior rifle.
I inherited a sporterized Eddystone, very nice rifle! I just picked up a 1093/A3 from a pawn shop that is very nice! I’m super happy with both 👍👍
Great stuff
I've always preferred the 1917 over the 1903
Both are nice but I agree with you.
Me too
Damn I just got a 1903…. Haven’t shot it yet
Same
Thank you gentlemen for another great review.
cheers
I like both video formats. Great educational video as usual.
Correct!! The American Enfield always gets grossly overshadowed by the Springfield. We rarely hear much about the Enfield being in US standard issue for a period of time, always defaulting to the 1903 and then we often go directly to the Trench Shotguns or the advent of the Bren and Machineguns. History during this time was a very busy bugger, often shrouding other important/causality of other events/leaps in tech. Such an in depth video, really appreciate the detail and time in explaining. Why have I never seen this channel?? Firearm channels are my focus, yet UA-cam does what they can to bury them... A day truly doesn't start for me until I read the Word, smell some cordite or virtually live vicariously through a channel :) New sub here.
This was fascinating!
I enjoyed the side-by-side comparison.
Next up: AK vs. M16. :)
The m1917 looks cool, I like the flip peep ladder rear sight and it’s durable strong action...but at the end of the day, as you say, the length and weight cannot be ignored. I’d go with the m1903
I like both of them but I have to say I prefer my model of 1917. Unrelated to my preference about 2 years after buying the 1917 I was told that it is the model issued to my grandfather in the trenches of France. Growing up I only saw training pictures of him with a Krag. Also he musterd out with a Krag so this surprised me.
Krags were used mostly for training and support troops in WWI, so doesn't surprise me. Frontliners got M1903s and M1917s.
Love this channel, great content, ans easily understandable for french speaking people!
Always loved the P17. Waited too long to get one at a good price, but a least I found one 🙂
Fair assessment. 👏
My grandfather born and raised in England moved to USA ad a young man and went into the French trenches for the US and was shot. But lived for me to tell his story.
We have some pawn shops and there is a clean 1917 on pawn about this same time every year, but it is always picked back up
Those things happen in pawnshops...especially in smaller towns. Money gets tight and guns are valuable.
Springfield 1903 is better looking if you ask me
I can understand you, but for me I just have this thing for British firearms. They have a 'different' type of beauty. The M1903 is more traditional and objectively nicer looking.
@@misha5670 I feel the same way about Russian rifles. Although I only own one Russian designed rifle, the SKS, and even though mine is a Type 56 Chinese, there’s something about the utilitarian simplicity of it that I prefer over better looking battle rifles in it’s class.
I've got a sporterized M1917 that was my grandfathers. Unfortunately my dad left it quite dirty. Though ive cleaned it up ive never fired it for fear that it could be pitted within the barrel.
My Dad bought the 1917 Enfield in the mid-40's & sporterized it .Original price was $7.50 but i noticed you were able to crank the bolt and dry fire the rifle. i'm not able to close the bolt without pushing down on the " follower ?" I'm wondering, did i miss you pushing it down or what ? it's always bugged me a little and also how can i tell if the barrel has been changed out ? Thank you for your time & great vid ! Peace ...
All barrels are marked with year and either W R or E near the front site. I found two Winns and replaced both barrels at the cmp.
I have both and find them to be great shooters. I favor the m 1917. It has less recoil because of the mass. Great video!
If the M1903 Springfield is good enough for the US Marines at Guadalcanal in 1942, it’s good enough for me! 🇺🇸👍👏👌✌️
That's why I love my 1903
Great video, like the content, keep up the good work. Always wondered which rifle is better for customizing for modern cartridges with higher pressures. My guess is the 1917 is stronger.
I've got both and I like the 1903 better.
I can understand; its lighter and shorter, and for a civilian target shooter it has more finely adjustable sights. Also its a major part of American history.
Enfield pattern P17 all day over the '03 Springfield , no comparison,. The Enfield M 1917 was a great battle rifle !
The 1917 is still used by the Danish Navy Sirius Dog Sled Patrol who operate in north eastern Greenland. The 30 06 cartridge is excellent for fending off aggressive polar bears and musk ox.
I don't hear anything about accuracy, how do these compare on accuracy?
It’s such a tough decision in my opinion between the 1903 and 1917. I have both and originally in my opinion the 1903 was the “better” weapon but in all honesty the more I shoot the 1917 the more I like it and closer of a battle between the 2 as far as “better” it becomes. The 1903 has much more technical sights that are superior in a way for target shooting but the 1917 sights are far more practical for actual combat and assuming you have a front sight tool to get your windage squared away it shoots every bit as well as the 1903 as long as you figure out how to get your head up close to that rear peep sight and centered. The sights are much better protected both front and rear by ears. The 1903 wins in the category of weight and portability by a small margin. Both are essentially Mauser actions with an American/British influence on the design. Etc etc it’s a back and forth argument 😆 screw it. Buy them both and enjoy shooting a piece of history is the inevitable outcome.
Thank you for this. Just got a original 03 haven’t shot yet. Looks like I’ll have to try a 17 as well one day
1903 Springfield nice target rifle , 5 rds
1917 Enfield great battle rifle , 6 rds
Choose your flavor , both great rifles 👍
I have a p-14 made by Remington that has finger grooves. At first i figured it had a 1917 stock but it does have British proof stamps on the buttstock so im guessing its correct?
England received large numbers of M1917s as lend-lease, usually issuing them to the Home Guard since they were in an odd caliber for the UK. Could be your P14 got put in a P17 stock during a rebuild or could be a replacement stock mfg in England during the refurb program in the 1930s. Also could be that late production P14s had the grooves but 'experts' have insisted to me they didn't. So i play it safe. Good rule of thumb is grooves = M1917 though.
@@misha5670 Interesting. I didnt know they had any 1917s in England. It does look like some kind of replacement. It doesn't match the handguards and is really flat looking like it wasnt oiled much. Im going to have to look at it again to try to find a manufacturer stamp. Thanks.
Typically in England, they painted a red stripe on the buttstock of their P17s so there wouldn't be any caliber-confusions. In the late 1930s, a company named MOrris made replacement P14 stocks for the gov't. Not sure if these had the grooves but its entirely possible.
An original WWI era P14 stock would have the hole for the front volley sight, where as an M1917 wouldn't.
Owned 17s and 03s. Always thought 17s were better
ANOTHER awesome video !!! I’m looking for an original replacement stock for my 1903A3. Any help would be much appreciated
Sorry, can't help there but if you ever need an orig M1903 buttplate in NOS condition, i have a stack of those.
There are new stocks on eBay for $230 that are really nice but no handguard or metal furniture so you would have to get everything in pieces and put it together.
I like the 03 much better. It carries easier and has a smoother/quick action. The 17 is overbuilt and too heavy, but it has better sights.
I like the P17 better
Ingeneral, me too.
My grandpa has his dads m1917 from WW1 still. I'll eventually inherit it. Will look nice next to my M1
No way it was US property... it probably was similar to his gun but you didn’t just walkoff with US Government property
Pretty much the older brother and the younger brother.
Nice compare / contrast. The M1917 to me has better lines.
Id rather have the 17 in ww1 mainly due to better sights especially in low light
Both excellent rifles, the o3's are more sexy , sleek , more American lol, have all three 17,03,A3, and the Garand, we have never been outclassed or under gunned, but i hold the K98 in very high regard, fully understand why we modeled after it, excellent rifle
I prefer the model of 1917… the fragile front sight on the Springfield let me down once.
i own a sporterized m1917 eddystone
I have an early '03, and USED to have an M1917, which my grandfather carried in the Great War...I got stupid and let the Enfield go--somebody kick me. :p
Honestly? we all make those stupid decisions. Its even more fun when we know even at the time its something we'll regret...and we go on and do it anyway lol.
LOL!Feel yourself kicked!
Ha! Thanks
Was it drug addiction or did you have a moment of poverty to sell it?
I really appreciate the 1917. It is a sweet shooter.
I don't know why the british didn't just contract out smle. Its much better.
Yada is the ancient Hebrew word for knew. As in Adam knew eve and cain was born. Yadi yada yada is 3 F bombs
1917 is my favorite!
New popular thing on the rise... 'Omg they should have chosen the M1917 over the M1903! Because rear aperture sight!'
No, they should have immediately started swapping rear aperture sights onto them, like they did for the M1903A3. Choosing the M1917 isn't necessary for that. Also, eyes were set on a self-loading rifle after WW1, and the US used those M1917's later on to reequip the British Army after Dunkirk.
The M1903 was America's rifle made at America's classic armory. That said, peep sights were the big thing following WWI for sure. The US was interested in a self-loading rifle sure, just it didn't want to put any money or time into one....at least not for about a decade. Of course when we did finally get serious, we made the best damn semi auto rifle of WWII, and made it early. I am talking of course about the M1941 Johnson lol j/k.
First!
Which favor of cookie you want? Me? I like peanut butter best! Thanks much for watching and early watching at that, cheers.
M1903 is better in my opinion but the m1917 seen more action
i love the 1917 . i would take it over the 1903 hands down
Photophobia??? 😅
I prefer the model of 1917… the fragile front sight on the Springfield let me down once.