I agree with you about the Mariko fighting scene being as it was shown. There’s no way a woman could kill a load of men by herself unless she’s Superwoman. This has been such a refreshing series to watch as compared to others that have been filmed in the last 3 or 4 years.
I believe that the Ninja scene is an important scene in the book. And the historical advisor you interviewed showed a slight bit of disappointment of having to do it, so I don’t think there was much they could do, due to its importance in the Book. Is there something they could have done which would have been as cool looking whilst also being accurate to the time? They already did a great Assasin scene earlier on in the show I guess as a way to prove that they can do historically accurate Assassins but they couldn’t change them for that scene.
Man, I just watched ep9 and now I genuinely feel sad. I really hoped she'd make it. Anna Sawai really played it well. As for Blackthorn, I think the lord was letting him go rogue in his own way and hopefully, it would end up helping. Probably why the lord called Blackthorn and the other guy as "predictable"
I actually don’t mind how the show shifts its focus away from Anjin. It gives the story a more balanced feel. Is it a deviation from the book? Sure. But it’s a good one. Aaaand it’s called Shogun, not Blackthorn after all.
@@AntonyCummins but here blackthorne is not the main character as simple as that. We don't want a blackthorne story we wanted a balanced story which thi show provided
I think it was pretty clear they weren't going for historical accuracy for the shinobi attack. Their advisors know what they're doing and have proved it throughout the series. I think they just wanted to go all in on NINJA for this, and i really didn't mind. It was fun
I have to agree , if they were going to do a Shinobi scene ( which I was hoping they would ) this is pretty much how it was always going to be , it was far better than most depictions on screen and I too enjoyed it for the fact that they included it .
+2 And not only that, but it seemed fairly clear to me that they were making the ninja's look reminiscent of the ones from the 1980 miniseries; I'm a sucker for homages, so again... I enjoyed it.
Thank you for no longer incorrectly blaming Yumio Nawa for the association of kusarigama and ninja when all of his books attempted to dispel that myth.
I too got a bit nervous when Marika was handed her bladed staff and when the ninjas appeared, but the story still stayed reasonably grounded. Not to sound gay (not that theres anything wrong with that), but I got a bit emotional when Blackthorn stepped forward to volunteer as Mariko's "second". It was such a powerful loving gesture.
In my opinion, the main issue that prevents Blackthorne from becoming the prominent character in this version is the criticism of “white savior” trope, especially against a movie like Last Samurai. So Blackthorne was diminished so hard that he’s less important than Buntaro, Ochiba or even Lady Gin. And there are some plot points that I don’t understand why did they even add to the story 1. Nagakado killing the messengers which a declaration of war but the plot wants Toranaga to win so the Western Army didn’t attack the East for some reason. 2. Zataki had Toranaga cornered and Nagakado failed attempt (and death) at his assassination should be enough for him and the West to crush the East but nope, they just valued honor that much so they just gave Toranaga the prep time he needed (Also, why would Osaka even let Zataki in charge of the council? He’s also a Minowara which means if they killed off Toranaga, it would make it easier for Zataki to focus all of his energy to usurp the council and make himself a new shogun). 3. Nagakado shouldn’t die at all. Sudara somehow never showed up and Hiromatsu’s seppuku should have turned all the generals in the Eastern camp into Yabushige and collectively betraying Toranaga, or at least building a new faction independent from Toranaga to fight Ishido. 4. I get that they want to make us feel bad for Mariko and hate Buntaro but why did they make Mariko look down on Buntaro and Hiromatsu’s family BEFORE Buntaro even abused her? The whole “I am Akechi Mariko” would have been much more powerful if the sole reason she hates the name “Toda” was because of Buntaro’s abuses but in this version, it was also because he’s from a poor family that’s “beneath” her so even if Buntaro was the most amazing husband in the whole universe, Mariko would still hate him anyway because of his lowborn status. 5. Speaking of lowborn status, I know that Ishido was portrayed as a main villain but I always feel bad for him whenever the other characters mocked him for being a peasant-born who had to work his way to the top. First it was Lady Daiyo-in, then it’s one of the council members who also mock Ishido’s peasant friend and then Mariko. Those people are supposed to be seen as good guys but did they forgot that the Taiko Hideyoshi himself was also a peasant who worked his way to the top but somehow Hideyoshi never got the same insults that Ishido got. 6. Blackthorne never apologized to Fuji for making the awful jokes that caused Fuji to kill Uejirou. 7. They somehow made Buntaro putting an effort by himself to make up with Mariko instead of Toranaga putting both of them together with a flimsy hope that they will make up. Aren’t we supposed to hate this guy? And the fact that he paid for his crimes right away by having to second his own dad and being denied death like Mariko just made him even more sympathetic. 8. Now I’m afraid that they are gonna turn Ochiba into just Ishido’s victim in the end. In the historical context, Yodo-Dono pretended to claim herself as Mitsunari’s victim to avoid Ieyasu’s wrath after Sekigahara and save her son. She even married her son to Senhime to maintain peace with Tokugawa. It was when Hideyori grew up that she started to plot a rebellion again, leading to the Osaka campaign. It’s all political moves. Even Ieyasu knew that she’s not the victim but chose to play along with her bs.
That Mariko scene with her fighting the guard was bad ass. She killed a few that were trying go toe to toe. Whether she would have if the guards were able to kill her but the guards do have self preservation mechanisms in their brain and it’s hard to overcome; so we are left to wonder and that is brilliant. Well done Shogun 2024.
Toranaga in this version made all the mistakes that Oda Nobunaga did in real life. The only difference is that Nobunaga has no plot armor. Ieyasu will never do what Toranaga did without actual good reasons.
Isn't the premise of this episode incorrect? As you say, taking hostages was common accepted practice to force others to support you. There would be no need to hide it, as it was overt in the real life events. However, again as in real life, it is the killing of a hostage which can prove counterproductive.
absolutely agree, if they would remove Blackthorne from the 2024 adaptation, we wouldn't even realize it, his character is absolute side-lined by Mariko, Yabushige... everyone else and its dog he cant walk, he dresses like a beggar, nothing hatamoto worthy about him good point about the scene with Mariko fighting... I was worried they made her another supergirl defeating everyone, but fortunately they kept the sanity in the series and portrayed her fight in a very real way
This version successfully managed to make Buntaro more likable than Blackthorne by accident. I’m looking forward to see Buntaro on screen than Blackthorne.
I was waiting for the ninth episode, mostly because of the shinobi scene. :) I was hoping that maybe they would finally show the depiction of the night raid the way it is in historically verifiable documents. Any of could be consulted, from Shoninki, Bansenshukai, Shigenori Chikamatsu's records, etc. Again, on the other hand, I assumed they would still opt for the "classic" approach, a stereotype. The most probable reason why... well, It is too deep in the minds of viewers around the world, they are simply not interested in changing it. Speaking of mask... I admit, myself prefer when the shinobi is depicted with a covering mask, rather than without a mask. :) Although I am aware, if nothing else, then at least of common sense/logic, which says that their masks were simply not necessary. It was very rare possible, for example, in Osaka Castle, at that time, during night attack, someone would recognize a hired shinobi, for example, from the north of Japan. Speaking of proper outlook, as we know from the sources, they could use for example tenugui to cover the head and cheeks. The face, eyes, upper surface of the palms were smeared in dark ink. If the creators were not interested for using ashigaru outlook(kachi karuta tatami yoroi, etc) in episode's shinobi night attack, they could opt for the combination of usual law rankin village samurai's, or even a villager's outlook, plus, tenugui and ink in order of covering the head, cheeks, face(instead of stereotype tozoku/nusubito black masking) . Then of course rokugu, wakizashi, kaginawa. This combo could be chosen as an fair enough accurate shinobi's outlook option in the episode. That could be kind a solomon's solution, I believe. 
GOOD crit. I tell ya A.C. if you wanna see a very good depiction of Ninja during the Sengoku period in movies, check out the movie "Sekigahara (2017)." I think its the best depiction of ninja presented in film along the lines of what your research has disccovered about them. There role during the Battle of Sekigahara was very complex especially in all the events they were involved in leading up to the Battle. Their dress, their function, their influence etc. Its really good in my view. No black mask, no black anywhere. The film is historical fiction. Shows how Ninja were used by Tokugawa and Mitsunari. Well done in my view.
We don’t know for a fact that Shinobi wouldn’t have worn masks, that is only your (current) theory. The Shoninki does say the tenugui can be used to cover your face, but does not specify how. It further explains that the skills of the Shinobi are the same as nusibito, just used morally. From my understanding, ink on the skin was used to change skin tone for yonin type disguise, not as a military style face paint. I’m surprised you didn’t mention the timing that they chose for the Shinobi raid. It was done during a celebration when everyone’s guard was down just as it’s taught in the scrolls. I don’t know enough about the historical use of kusarigama. Maybe you could do a video about that sometime in the future?
A new book? Wuhu!!!!!!! I am looking forward to the release and the reason why you are publishing it by yourself (publishers guidlines about violence and politics, carried out by foreign nations maybe?).
Were the armoured samurai suits based off Stormtrooper Armour. Armoured vs un armoured should have been a clear win for the armoured. Also cue a new Ninja Boom..... A bet the Bujinkan were having a proper fap at that scene.
Just finished watching episode 9 and came straight here right after. Gotta say, the Shinobi attack scene was bit of a disappointment. Comepared to the 80’s version, Tom Cruise’s Last Samurai, Keanu Reeves’s 47 Ronin night raid, or even Christopher Lambert’s The Hunted (the train massacre scene), this Ninja mission lacked excitement and urgency!
Hi Anthony, i have a question, what do you think about Kawakami Jinichi? And do you know also the relationship between him and Masaaki Hatsumi? Thank you in advance. 😀👍
Morals of this story (at least this version) are 1. Buntaro is a true hero who did nothing wrong. If I was in his position, I would beat the crap out of Mariko as well. 2. Yabushige is the greatest victim of the story. Why won’t I betray a crazy old man who forced his best friend to commit seppuku? I know that the plot armor will force that crazy old man to win but in practical sense, anyone with the right mind would betray him. That’s why in every other version, Hiromatsu is still alive and well because killing him off doesn’t make sense.
@@Amatsuichi and it’s 99% thanks to the actor Tadanobu Asano. His charisma made Yabushige a fan favorite. I don’t think anyone else could charm the audience like him.
the script writers said they adapted the book to "be more relevant to a modern audience" and they gave the script to asian american women writers for their opinion. It pretty much confirms that the script is american race feminism bs.
Before I watch this breakdown, Antony C, don’tchu ruin that ninja scene for me!!! 😂 I love that scene, we KNOW it’s not up to par with the sickle and chain shit. We know. We know. But dont you ruin this. They gave us ninjas 🥷🏾 FINALLY!!! Don’t you ruin this for us!!! 😂😂🤣🤣
I agree with you about the Mariko fighting scene being as it was shown. There’s no way a woman could kill a load of men by herself unless she’s Superwoman. This has been such a refreshing series to watch as compared to others that have been filmed in the last 3 or 4 years.
I believe that the Ninja scene is an important scene in the book. And the historical advisor you interviewed showed a slight bit of disappointment of having to do it, so I don’t think there was much they could do, due to its importance in the Book. Is there something they could have done which would have been as cool looking whilst also being accurate to the time? They already did a great Assasin scene earlier on in the show I guess as a way to prove that they can do historically accurate Assassins but they couldn’t change them for that scene.
She said "wait until I have fallen".....because "A flower is not a flower until it has fallen"
Was waiting to hear your thoughts on the ninja scene! haha
My internet was down Nick. I might have to do a full ninja scene review. Oh god it was bad.
😂
Ahhhh....now, we know you're the ninja guy...... but those were SHINOBI.....
I think having their faces covered was more for the audience's benefit, so they don't assume these are Toranaga's men for example.
For the sake of sensationalism, I think that the shinobi were awesome. I had a bit of the 1980's sho kosugi nostalgia. 😅
Mariko sama is a women every strong man wish and need. I enjoy very much to observe her. I Love this series.
Man, I just watched ep9 and now I genuinely feel sad.
I really hoped she'd make it. Anna Sawai really played it well.
As for Blackthorn, I think the lord was letting him go rogue in his own way and hopefully, it would end up helping.
Probably why the lord called Blackthorn and the other guy as "predictable"
I actually don’t mind how the show shifts its focus away from Anjin. It gives the story a more balanced feel. Is it a deviation from the book? Sure. But it’s a good one. Aaaand it’s called Shogun, not Blackthorn after all.
Yes but lord of the rings is called that but Frodo is the main character?
@@AntonyCumminsHa, touché! Well played Sir.
@@AntonyCummins but here blackthorne is not the main character as simple as that. We don't want a blackthorne story we wanted a balanced story which thi show provided
Episode 9: enter the ninja 😂
I think it was pretty clear they weren't going for historical accuracy for the shinobi attack. Their advisors know what they're doing and have proved it throughout the series. I think they just wanted to go all in on NINJA for this, and i really didn't mind. It was fun
I have to agree , if they were going to do a Shinobi scene ( which I was hoping they would ) this is pretty much how it was always going to be , it was far better than most depictions on screen and I too enjoyed it for the fact that they included it .
+2 And not only that, but it seemed fairly clear to me that they were making the ninja's look reminiscent of the ones from the 1980 miniseries; I'm a sucker for homages, so again... I enjoyed it.
Thank you for no longer incorrectly blaming Yumio Nawa for the association of kusarigama and ninja when all of his books attempted to dispel that myth.
I will still make a video on that
@@AntonyCummins I can’t wait.
I too got a bit nervous when Marika was handed her bladed staff and when the ninjas appeared, but the story still stayed reasonably grounded.
Not to sound gay (not that theres anything wrong with that), but I got a bit emotional when Blackthorn stepped forward to volunteer as Mariko's "second". It was such a powerful loving gesture.
In my opinion, the main issue that prevents Blackthorne from becoming the prominent character in this version is the criticism of “white savior” trope, especially against a movie like Last Samurai. So Blackthorne was diminished so hard that he’s less important than Buntaro, Ochiba or even Lady Gin.
And there are some plot points that I don’t understand why did they even add to the story
1. Nagakado killing the messengers which a declaration of war but the plot wants Toranaga to win so the Western Army didn’t attack the East for some reason.
2. Zataki had Toranaga cornered and Nagakado failed attempt (and death) at his assassination should be enough for him and the West to crush the East but nope, they just valued honor that much so they just gave Toranaga the prep time he needed (Also, why would Osaka even let Zataki in charge of the council? He’s also a Minowara which means if they killed off Toranaga, it would make it easier for Zataki to focus all of his energy to usurp the council and make himself a new shogun).
3. Nagakado shouldn’t die at all. Sudara somehow never showed up and Hiromatsu’s seppuku should have turned all the generals in the Eastern camp into Yabushige and collectively betraying Toranaga, or at least building a new faction independent from Toranaga to fight Ishido.
4. I get that they want to make us feel bad for Mariko and hate Buntaro but why did they make Mariko look down on Buntaro and Hiromatsu’s family BEFORE Buntaro even abused her? The whole “I am Akechi Mariko” would have been much more powerful if the sole reason she hates the name “Toda” was because of Buntaro’s abuses but in this version, it was also because he’s from a poor family that’s “beneath” her so even if Buntaro was the most amazing husband in the whole universe, Mariko would still hate him anyway because of his lowborn status.
5. Speaking of lowborn status, I know that Ishido was portrayed as a main villain but I always feel bad for him whenever the other characters mocked him for being a peasant-born who had to work his way to the top. First it was Lady Daiyo-in, then it’s one of the council members who also mock Ishido’s peasant friend and then Mariko. Those people are supposed to be seen as good guys but did they forgot that the Taiko Hideyoshi himself was also a peasant who worked his way to the top but somehow Hideyoshi never got the same insults that Ishido got.
6. Blackthorne never apologized to Fuji for making the awful jokes that caused Fuji to kill Uejirou.
7. They somehow made Buntaro putting an effort by himself to make up with Mariko instead of Toranaga putting both of them together with a flimsy hope that they will make up. Aren’t we supposed to hate this guy? And the fact that he paid for his crimes right away by having to second his own dad and being denied death like Mariko just made him even more sympathetic.
8. Now I’m afraid that they are gonna turn Ochiba into just Ishido’s victim in the end. In the historical context, Yodo-Dono pretended to claim herself as Mitsunari’s victim to avoid Ieyasu’s wrath after Sekigahara and save her son. She even married her son to Senhime to maintain peace with Tokugawa. It was when Hideyori grew up that she started to plot a rebellion again, leading to the Osaka campaign. It’s all political moves. Even Ieyasu knew that she’s not the victim but chose to play along with her bs.
Is it called SEPUKU when a woman does it? I think there's another word.....
That Mariko scene with her fighting the guard was bad ass. She killed a few that were trying go toe to toe. Whether she would have if the guards were able to kill her but the guards do have self preservation mechanisms in their brain and it’s hard to overcome; so we are left to wonder and that is brilliant.
Well done Shogun 2024.
Toranaga in this version made all the mistakes that Oda Nobunaga did in real life. The only difference is that Nobunaga has no plot armor.
Ieyasu will never do what Toranaga did without actual good reasons.
Isn't the premise of this episode incorrect? As you say, taking hostages was common accepted practice to force others to support you. There would be no need to hide it, as it was overt in the real life events. However, again as in real life, it is the killing of a hostage which can prove counterproductive.
Yes, we really need more shows like this and about the Shinobis of Iga.
absolutely agree, if they would remove Blackthorne from the 2024 adaptation, we wouldn't even realize it, his character is absolute side-lined by Mariko, Yabushige... everyone else and its dog
he cant walk, he dresses like a beggar, nothing hatamoto worthy about him
good point about the scene with Mariko fighting... I was worried they made her another supergirl defeating everyone, but fortunately they kept the sanity in the series and portrayed her fight in a very real way
This version successfully managed to make Buntaro more likable than Blackthorne by accident.
I’m looking forward to see Buntaro on screen than Blackthorne.
I agree with you that we need shows of this quality.
I was waiting for the ninth episode, mostly because of the shinobi scene. :) I was hoping that maybe they would finally show the depiction of the night raid the way it is in historically verifiable documents. Any of could be consulted, from Shoninki, Bansenshukai, Shigenori Chikamatsu's records, etc. Again, on the other hand, I assumed they would still opt for the "classic" approach, a stereotype. The most probable reason why... well, It is too deep in the minds of viewers around the world, they are simply not interested in changing it. Speaking of mask... I admit, myself prefer when the shinobi is depicted with a covering mask, rather than without a mask. :) Although I am aware, if nothing else, then at least of common sense/logic, which says that their masks were simply not necessary. It was very rare possible, for example, in Osaka Castle, at that time, during night attack, someone would recognize a hired shinobi, for example, from the north of Japan. Speaking of proper outlook, as we know from the sources, they could use for example tenugui to cover the head and cheeks. The face, eyes, upper surface of the palms were smeared in dark ink. If the creators were not interested for using ashigaru outlook(kachi karuta tatami yoroi, etc) in episode's shinobi night attack, they could opt for the combination of usual law rankin village samurai's, or even a villager's outlook, plus, tenugui and ink in order of covering the head, cheeks, face(instead of stereotype tozoku/nusubito black masking) . Then of course rokugu, wakizashi, kaginawa. This combo could be chosen as an fair enough accurate shinobi's outlook option in the episode. That could be kind a solomon's solution, I believe.

GOOD crit. I tell ya A.C. if you wanna see a very good depiction of Ninja during the Sengoku period in movies, check out the movie "Sekigahara (2017)." I think its the best depiction of ninja presented in film along the lines of what your research has disccovered about them. There role during the Battle of Sekigahara was very complex especially in all the events they were involved in leading up to the Battle. Their dress, their function, their influence etc. Its really good in my view. No black mask, no black anywhere. The film is historical fiction. Shows how Ninja were used by Tokugawa and Mitsunari. Well done in my view.
We don’t know for a fact that Shinobi wouldn’t have worn masks, that is only your (current) theory. The Shoninki does say the tenugui can be used to cover your face, but does not specify how. It further explains that the skills of the Shinobi are the same as nusibito, just used morally. From my understanding, ink on the skin was used to change skin tone for yonin type disguise, not as a military style face paint.
I’m surprised you didn’t mention the timing that they chose for the Shinobi raid. It was done during a celebration when everyone’s guard was down just as it’s taught in the scrolls.
I don’t know enough about the historical use of kusarigama. Maybe you could do a video about that sometime in the future?
We do know how they covered thier heads. It was over the top under the chin.
@@AntonyCumminsWhere is that confirmed for Shinobi specifically?
I can't wait until it's over so I can binge watch all of it
A new book? Wuhu!!!!!!! I am looking forward to the release and the reason why you are publishing it by yourself (publishers guidlines about violence and politics, carried out by foreign nations maybe?).
Yes dead right.
Always just gets better and better
Very nice review. Katajikenou gozarimasuru. : )
Were the armoured samurai suits based off Stormtrooper Armour. Armoured vs un armoured should have been a clear win for the armoured.
Also cue a new Ninja Boom..... A bet the Bujinkan were having a proper fap at that scene.
Just finished watching episode 9 and came straight here right after. Gotta say, the Shinobi attack scene was bit of a disappointment. Comepared to the 80’s version, Tom Cruise’s Last Samurai, Keanu Reeves’s 47 Ronin night raid, or even Christopher Lambert’s The Hunted (the train massacre scene), this Ninja mission lacked excitement and urgency!
Thank you very much.
Hi Anthony, i have a question, what do you think about Kawakami Jinichi? And do you know also the relationship between him and Masaaki Hatsumi? Thank you in advance. 😀👍
He is a good researcher. He knows a lot of ninjutsu. I do not know if he has any relation with Hatsumi
@@AntonyCummins
Thank you for the info. 🙏
What are your pronouns? 😂
Morals of this story (at least this version) are
1. Buntaro is a true hero who did nothing wrong. If I was in his position, I would beat the crap out of Mariko as well.
2. Yabushige is the greatest victim of the story. Why won’t I betray a crazy old man who forced his best friend to commit seppuku? I know that the plot armor will force that crazy old man to win but in practical sense, anyone with the right mind would betray him. That’s why in every other version, Hiromatsu is still alive and well because killing him off doesn’t make sense.
I just realized, they made even Toranaga unlikable... Yabushige seems to be one of the best characters in the series
@@Amatsuichi and it’s 99% thanks to the actor Tadanobu Asano. His charisma made Yabushige a fan favorite. I don’t think anyone else could charm the audience like him.
This is clearly a feminist version of the book. I was hoping at the beginning of the series we would get a Japanese version, but nope.
I’m wondering if they did this to attract female viewers? I haven’t read the book so can’t compare the series with the book.
the script writers said they adapted the book to "be more relevant to a modern audience" and they gave the script to asian american women writers for their opinion. It pretty much confirms that the script is american race feminism bs.
Before I watch this breakdown, Antony C, don’tchu ruin that ninja scene for me!!! 😂 I love that scene, we KNOW it’s not up to par with the sickle and chain shit. We know. We know. But dont you ruin this. They gave us ninjas 🥷🏾 FINALLY!!! Don’t you ruin this for us!!! 😂😂🤣🤣
Ruined!