David I have sat my 18th edition back in July last year and came across your video. Just watched out of curiosity and I love your rants and humour. Good work.
Really interesting video Dave, I’m a lapsed electrician having spent the last 22 years working for a rather large telecoms company both as an engineer and manager with huge focus on safety and customer. Still need to earn a crust so I’m going to do my 18th as soon as possible and anything else required for testing. It’s not easy though trying to find out what the best pathway is now though having worked in the trade previously and being a ‘competent person’ already. Any advice on that? Loving the videos, yours and a few others have been great refreshers and are keeping me entertained, keep up the good work.
David what can i say after stopping and starting your 12 points advice and taking notes, I think i could do with that glass of white at the end. I am in he process of taking level 3 17th edition exams soon. And your video has triggered of points that i thought i could never be able to navigate around the "BIG YELLOW BOOK BS7671 17th Edition". but at the point 12 of your tips i am more confident to go through with my exam than i was before i started to watch your 12 tips. Thanks a lot i think you are right in saying you would only cheat your self not any one else if you decide to cheat your exams. Thanks a lot Regards Ismail hopefully a potential honest sparky..
Hi Ismail. Thanks for your comment, I hope it helps! I received my 18th Ed (blue) book yesterday; my exam is booked for August so I'm already going through it with the highlighter and bookmark tabs! It's a useful exercise as it helps to see what's moved or changed since last time. Good luck with it all!
I did my 18th amd 2 this week, it was a challenge with so many random questions about all the new and obscure areas covered. I found i needed the full two hours down the the last ten seconds!
David you said that the electrical safety at work regulations are statutory? At the foot of page 2 (GUIDANCE) I have not written it word for word hear but simply A view words that says this guidance is issued by the health and safety executive , following the guidance is not compulsory, unless specifically stated and you are free to take other action, the it goes on and seems to contradict itself? I have had a read through it and I can’t find any thing about following the manufacturers instructions or the need to use a torque screwdriver . Or have I missed something?. Fantastic video as always mate 👍👍👍❤️ Sorry i’am not trying to correct you or saying your wrong i’am just looking for clarification, as you are the only one that talks any sense, i’am more inclined to listen to you then a lot of other you tube sparks
I am a mechanical engineer who is now going through a fast track electrical apprenticeship and have been told to do my 18th edition. A large amount of knowledge to take on! Any tips on tabbing useful areas? I have just about tabbed all pages in the book 😂
Good advice for most exams there, know the book before you spaff £££ on the exam. Other good ones are... stay off the Gin the night before, go to bed early, don't eat straight before the exam and go to the toilet before it starts. Simple things but they all help.
Just a bit of feedback ref the running order of the exam. I've had well over 100 students take the 18th Ed and 90% found that it threw them around the book rather than running in a logical order - I also found this. My exam started in Part 5, then to 4, then to 7 and then to 1-3. Pain in the backside. I have also had feedback that some questions still have 2 x correct answers. Yes, I agree with you - C&G do this on purpose.
Interesting, my colleague Nigel who took the exam with me back in August also reported that he had to flick around the book to find the answers, but that wasn't my experience of it. I still have (somewhere) the sheet where I noted down the page numbers I found the answers on.
It must be down to pot luck, but I vaguely remember the 17th starting like this too and then running in a logical order. It would help if they all did since the 19th, 20th & 21st Editions will undoubtedly be 2000 pages long of poorly written crap.
@@spcyman7209 They don't even proofread the damn thing. A corrigendum was issued in December, and that had a correction in it that was previously issued in a corrigendum back in January 2016 for the yellow book which they had failed to apply when publishing the blue book!
lol, I know. I have it in front of me right now. It's a pity that the mistakes made from the first issue of the 17th haven't been addressed, but then again what do I know? #peasant
Been told that the OSG is NOT allowed in the exam room; another C&G mis-understanding I suspect. A bit like them classifying dyslexia as a "temporary medical condition". Aiming to get something in writing from C&G before test day.
Well, seven weeks from now 17th Edition will no longer exist, so invest in the new 18th Edition blue book and associated training if you're intent on working in the field. If it ain't blue, it ain't new, and it won't apply from January.
As it's a technical document, it's not very accessible. The On Suite Guide is their attempt to put the common stuff into plain English for us street fellows, but the exam nevertheless requires us to be able to quickly navigate and interpret the big book. All the best with your exam!
@@dsesuk Hi David , i see you have bookmarks on your book ? I don't have them , are the allowed for exam ? Can you tell me please what is written on your bookmarks ? I might do the same and i could maybe find answer faster , Kind Regards !
@@andrejskurmelovs4838 Hi Andrejs. You are perfectly fine using bookmark tabs to quickly navigate to sections (along the top) and appendices (down the side). I also have a couple of additional tabs for things like the table and figure indexes. You can also highlight passages. The only thing you can't do is add extra pages or make heavy annotations. My bookmark tabs simply say things like "Part 1 Scope", "Part 2 Definitions" etc.
Hi David.... Do you think it would be a good idea for this book to be published like the old style home telephone numbers book (indexed/cut pages) with the chapters, like the letters in the phone books were, highlighted, numerically..... similar to your laballing system...keeps the whole thing tidier.
Yes. In fact the whole thing could be made more accessible in my opinion. Although it's job is to just deliver the facts, it can be difficult to find anything even if you have an idea of what you're searching for and where it might be. It would also be nice if the IET offered an online version, even if it's password protected and subject to a (reasonable) subscription or accessible based on a CPS registration number. That way it would be searchable electronically which would save some page flipping and allow better access out on site!
I'm a gas installer and a fully qualified electrician not just a domestic installer, if you were clever enough to do gas and work in peoples houses and massive boiler rooms in one day maybe you wouldn't say derogetary comments about fellow tradesman....We're all just as clever as each other and trying to earn a living.
Not at all. Minor works are really small jobs such as like-for-like accessory replacements or the addition of a new accessory onto an existing circuit, e.g. a new socket spur adding or an extra luminaire installed on a lighting circuit. Replacing the tails and earthing is only necessary if the tails/earthing cables are themselves damaged, if the consumer unit is being upgraded/relocated and they're no longer long enough or don't follow the correct route, or if they are undersized for the existing or planned demand of the installation and the size of the fuse at the intake; an example of that being where the client wants a new high-load appliance such as a car charger or electric shower but needs their fuse upgrading to accommodate it, and fatter tails/earthing for the size of the new fuse. A minor works on its own isn't likely to require an upgrade at the source of the installation unless you turn up to attend to a minor works job and find the existing installation has already outgrown the source or is in poor condition in which case remedial work may be recommended. Whenever I've upgraded tails/earthing, it's always been as part of a much larger job involving a new CU or circuit(s), so falls under an Electrical Installation Certificate. What scenario do you have at your end, is it a specific job or something theoretical?
David Savery Electrical Services thanks for the reply just theoretical at the moment as you may of guessed I have passed my test and now am learning to drive, so trying to obtain as much information as possible to get the job done correctly. The iet forums are a good read but lots of different answers to questions it’s hard to no who is correct, I have to say the nic helpline are spot on always willing to help.Hope you do not mind another question if you were extending a 2 plate lighting system so lives at switches in double insulated singles and cpc would you use singles to extend from existing switch to a new switch and run a neutral and cpc from light to light or would you use a different approach
Well, it's a rewarding career you're getting into - I love the electrical work itself, albeit not always running the business! I know what you mean about the forums, all too often they end up as a pissing match between two camps arguing over the same point which may be interpreted either way. Many parts of the regs are open to a certain amount of interpretation, and for good reason as each installation is unique and installers/maintainers need certain flexibility to match the clients requirements and budget. Sometimes it can be hard to fully comply, but if you can walk away knowing it's safer than before you started then you'll sleep at night. I'm about to load up the van, but I can give you an example when I'm back later. To go back to your previous question on tails/earthing, I have turned up for minor works jobs before and found the supplier's earth is bad, in which case I've got the DNO in. It's usually a rotting TNS connection that they convert to PME by linking the MET to the neutral. Moving on to your new query, the only time I use singles is when it's single insulated wires in conduit. Singles for house wiring isn't employed any more, although you will come across installations which have it. If I were required to extend such a circuit, I would break into it at the switch position (or above the switch by opening the ceiling or floor above if needed), and I would run a twin & earth feed to where it needs to go. Splitting a line and neutral into double-insulated singles run across different routes wouldn't comply with regulation 444.4.2.1 (part iii). You can still buy double-insulated singles, so maybe some people do still use them, but I've never done so and I haven't seen it in use on installations newer than those built in the Eighties.
To add to the earlier comment, if you're on a new build or a full refurbishment then full compliance with the regs is much easier, but it can be difficult to achieve on an existing installation. Take dual-RCD consumer units for example. By design they don't comply with reg 314 (division of installation) as they have a single point of failure which affects multiple circuits - i.e. when an RCD trips it might take out up to six circuits. There was an angry Twitter account recently bashing sparks who were posting pics of their neat new dual RCD boards because they're "non-compliant". That account seems to have gone now, but the point is that in the real world we're competing against cowboys who have lower overheads because they're not insured or accredited and they cut corners, so you can't always put in a higher cost RCBO board if the client is on a budget and isn't interested in the benefit an RCBO board would offer, therefore reg 314 often gets sacrificed for cost. Is that bad? Well, a dual RCD board is a lot safer to have than the BS3036 rewirable fuse box it probably replaced so lets not berate installers who fit them when we don't know what budgetary constraints the client placed upon them! As another example, say you get called to a simple minor works - a new socket spur is needed to eliminate a long trailing extension lead that's a trip hazard. Should be a simple in-and-out job, but reg 132.16 requires you to check existing equipment such as earthing and bonding are adequate before alterations are made, and regs 631.4 and 631.5 require that work to be signed off and certified afterwards so you accept the liability. Say you check and find the circuit CPC and the main earth are okay, but the gas bond is missing, and the gas meter is located some distance from the MET which would result in breaking into final finishes to get a bonding cable installed. You have two choices: tell the client the work cannot be done without the bonding upgrade and walk away if she can't or won't pay for the additional work, or perform the spur installation and advise the client of the bonding problem and what needs to be done. On many forums you'll find people who say they'll walk away because they can't comply with reg 132.16. Personally, I'd do the job and note on the certificate that the gas bond is missing and the client wouldn't authorise me to put it right. I figure that if I don't do the job, she'll find someone who will, perhaps someone who won't do it to the same standard I work to, so there's no point me losing that business. Can I sleep at night knowing regulation 132.16 wasn't satisfied on that job? Well yes, because the installation is safer after as the trip hazard and long-lead extension are gone and the circuit has been tested as being in good condition so I know it should be safe and serviceable. Will someone one day get a shock from the gas pipework? Maybe, but if I've made the client aware of the risk and she hasn't authorised me to remedy it then the liability for that risk passes back to her. I have no power to enforce safety on anyone in their own home, only to ensure the installations and modifications I make are themselves safe. Sometimes running a business gets in the way of abiding by all the regs, but the client is king and they won't always let you do things how you would like. The IET/BSI know this though, that's why the regs are non-statutory and in many cases leave some leeway for the guy-on-the-ground to make the call about how to do the job.
David Savery Electrical Services Thanks for taking the time to reply David the lighting query is now cleared up apart from ,here he goes again ,I'm sure when I asked the nic, the bedroom that needs extending does incorporate the bathroom lighting on the circuit but is not on the rcd side of the board I'm sure he said this is ok though ?useful adding the regs numbers in on your example to reference to are dual rcd boards now none complient ? Are we suppose to fit rcbo boards now as standard, jobs are ultimately guided by the customer requirements but they can soon grow fangs when things go wrong even if they were advised on the correct way to Carry out works
David I have sat my 18th edition back in July last year and came across your video. Just watched out of curiosity and I love your rants and humour. Good work.
Really interesting video Dave, I’m a lapsed electrician having spent the last 22 years working for a rather large telecoms company both as an engineer and manager with huge focus on safety and customer. Still need to earn a crust so I’m going to do my 18th as soon as possible and anything else required for testing. It’s not easy though trying to find out what the best pathway is now though having worked in the trade previously and being a ‘competent person’ already. Any advice on that? Loving the videos, yours and a few others have been great refreshers and are keeping me entertained, keep up the good work.
David what can i say after stopping and starting your 12 points advice and taking notes, I think i could do with that glass of white at the end. I am in he process of taking level 3 17th edition exams soon. And your video has triggered of points that i thought i could never be able to navigate around the "BIG YELLOW BOOK BS7671 17th Edition". but at the point 12 of your tips i am more confident to go through with my exam than i was before i started to watch your 12 tips. Thanks a lot i think you are right in saying you would only cheat your self not any one else if you decide to cheat your exams. Thanks a lot Regards Ismail hopefully a potential honest sparky..
Hi Ismail. Thanks for your comment, I hope it helps! I received my 18th Ed (blue) book yesterday; my exam is booked for August so I'm already going through it with the highlighter and bookmark tabs! It's a useful exercise as it helps to see what's moved or changed since last time. Good luck with it all!
That regs book is in the same condition as a copy of razzle I had as a teen ! Good tips David
Haha! I don't lIke the regs book *that* much! The On-Site Guide however, well that has colour pictures and everything....
Razzle , escort , fiesta , the good old days
Mmmmm Razzle 💦
I did my 18th amd 2 this week, it was a challenge with so many random questions about all the new and obscure areas covered. I found i needed the full two hours down the the last ten seconds!
David you said that the electrical safety at work regulations are statutory?
At the foot of page 2 (GUIDANCE) I have not written it word for word hear but simply
A view words that says this guidance is issued by the health and safety executive , following the guidance is not compulsory, unless specifically stated and you are free to take other action, the it goes on and seems to contradict itself?
I have had a read through it and I can’t find any thing about following the manufacturers instructions or the need to use a torque screwdriver . Or have I missed something?. Fantastic video as always mate 👍👍👍❤️
Sorry i’am not trying to correct you or saying your wrong i’am just looking for clarification, as you are the only one that talks any sense, i’am more inclined to listen to you then a lot of other you tube sparks
I am a mechanical engineer who is now going through a fast track electrical apprenticeship and have been told to do my 18th edition. A large amount of knowledge to take on! Any tips on tabbing useful areas? I have just about tabbed all pages in the book 😂
A shit read with no heros no murders no plot twists or princesses...... ha ha ha quality Dave !!!!
Good advice for most exams there, know the book before you spaff £££ on the exam.
Other good ones are... stay off the Gin the night before, go to bed early, don't eat straight before the exam and go to the toilet before it starts. Simple things but they all help.
Fantastic, informative and funny. Thanks
Some good tips. Thanks David
Wow I've never heard David speak so eloquently
A good video and tips. However, contrary to what is said in the video the On-site guide is not allowed to be taken into an 18th Edition exam.
Yes, this is true, sorry for the error! The description mentions this point. Thanks for watching!
Can you post a link for them tabs plz...
Just a bit of feedback ref the running order of the exam. I've had well over 100 students take the 18th Ed and 90% found that it threw them around the book rather than running in a logical order - I also found this. My exam started in Part 5, then to 4, then to 7 and then to 1-3. Pain in the backside. I have also had feedback that some questions still have 2 x correct answers. Yes, I agree with you - C&G do this on purpose.
Interesting, my colleague Nigel who took the exam with me back in August also reported that he had to flick around the book to find the answers, but that wasn't my experience of it. I still have (somewhere) the sheet where I noted down the page numbers I found the answers on.
It must be down to pot luck, but I vaguely remember the 17th starting like this too and then running in a logical order. It would help if they all did since the 19th, 20th & 21st Editions will undoubtedly be 2000 pages long of poorly written crap.
@@spcyman7209 They don't even proofread the damn thing. A corrigendum was issued in December, and that had a correction in it that was previously issued in a corrigendum back in January 2016 for the yellow book which they had failed to apply when publishing the blue book!
lol, I know. I have it in front of me right now. It's a pity that the mistakes made from the first issue of the 17th haven't been addressed, but then again what do I know? #peasant
Been told that the OSG is NOT allowed in the exam room; another C&G mis-understanding I suspect. A bit like them classifying dyslexia as a "temporary medical condition". Aiming to get something in writing from C&G before test day.
Yes, I found that when taking the 18th, although I'm sure on a past one it was permitted!
@@dsesuk Still a really valuable video - thank you
I want to get 17th edition regs book to prepare for 17th edition exam which amendment or version should i get ?
Well, seven weeks from now 17th Edition will no longer exist, so invest in the new 18th Edition blue book and associated training if you're intent on working in the field. If it ain't blue, it ain't new, and it won't apply from January.
@@dsesuk thank you for your reply it is helpful. Anybody who has completed 18th edition test wants to give away books or materiel ?
@@vinzers1311 No as it is a working Book.So if you are serious Buy your own copy.🤔
Worst written book in existence. Test in 2 weeks and takes me 10 mins to answer 1 question.
As it's a technical document, it's not very accessible. The On Suite Guide is their attempt to put the common stuff into plain English for us street fellows, but the exam nevertheless requires us to be able to quickly navigate and interpret the big book. All the best with your exam!
@@dsesuk Hi David , i see you have bookmarks on your book ? I don't have them , are the allowed for exam ? Can you tell me please what is written on your bookmarks ? I might do the same and i could maybe find answer faster , Kind Regards !
@@andrejskurmelovs4838 Hi Andrejs. You are perfectly fine using bookmark tabs to quickly navigate to sections (along the top) and appendices (down the side). I also have a couple of additional tabs for things like the table and figure indexes. You can also highlight passages. The only thing you can't do is add extra pages or make heavy annotations. My bookmark tabs simply say things like "Part 1 Scope", "Part 2 Definitions" etc.
Hi David.... Do you think it would be a good idea for this book to be published like the old style home telephone numbers book (indexed/cut pages) with the chapters, like the letters in the phone books were, highlighted, numerically..... similar to your laballing system...keeps the whole thing tidier.
Yes. In fact the whole thing could be made more accessible in my opinion. Although it's job is to just deliver the facts, it can be difficult to find anything even if you have an idea of what you're searching for and where it might be. It would also be nice if the IET offered an online version, even if it's password protected and subject to a (reasonable) subscription or accessible based on a CPS registration number. That way it would be searchable electronically which would save some page flipping and allow better access out on site!
It must be good to confess?
Thanks
Evidently water and paper do not mix either. :)
I'm a gas installer and a fully qualified electrician not just a domestic installer, if you were clever enough to do gas and work in peoples houses and massive boiler rooms in one day maybe you wouldn't say derogetary comments about fellow tradesman....We're all just as clever as each other and trying to earn a living.
It's just 'bants' between trades Mark.
Hi David I was trying to establish what minor works would require earthing and meter tails to be upgraded hope You do not mind the ask
Not at all. Minor works are really small jobs such as like-for-like accessory replacements or the addition of a new accessory onto an existing circuit, e.g. a new socket spur adding or an extra luminaire installed on a lighting circuit. Replacing the tails and earthing is only necessary if the tails/earthing cables are themselves damaged, if the consumer unit is being upgraded/relocated and they're no longer long enough or don't follow the correct route, or if they are undersized for the existing or planned demand of the installation and the size of the fuse at the intake; an example of that being where the client wants a new high-load appliance such as a car charger or electric shower but needs their fuse upgrading to accommodate it, and fatter tails/earthing for the size of the new fuse. A minor works on its own isn't likely to require an upgrade at the source of the installation unless you turn up to attend to a minor works job and find the existing installation has already outgrown the source or is in poor condition in which case remedial work may be recommended. Whenever I've upgraded tails/earthing, it's always been as part of a much larger job involving a new CU or circuit(s), so falls under an Electrical Installation Certificate. What scenario do you have at your end, is it a specific job or something theoretical?
David Savery Electrical Services thanks for the reply just theoretical at the moment as you may of guessed I have passed my test and now am learning to drive, so trying to obtain as much information as possible to get the job done correctly. The iet forums are a good read but lots of different answers to questions it’s hard to no who is correct, I have to say the nic helpline are spot on always willing to help.Hope you do not mind another question if you were extending a 2 plate lighting system so lives at switches in double insulated singles and cpc would you use singles to extend from existing switch to a new switch and run a neutral and cpc from light to light or would you use a different approach
Well, it's a rewarding career you're getting into - I love the electrical work itself, albeit not always running the business! I know what you mean about the forums, all too often they end up as a pissing match between two camps arguing over the same point which may be interpreted either way. Many parts of the regs are open to a certain amount of interpretation, and for good reason as each installation is unique and installers/maintainers need certain flexibility to match the clients requirements and budget. Sometimes it can be hard to fully comply, but if you can walk away knowing it's safer than before you started then you'll sleep at night. I'm about to load up the van, but I can give you an example when I'm back later. To go back to your previous question on tails/earthing, I have turned up for minor works jobs before and found the supplier's earth is bad, in which case I've got the DNO in. It's usually a rotting TNS connection that they convert to PME by linking the MET to the neutral. Moving on to your new query, the only time I use singles is when it's single insulated wires in conduit. Singles for house wiring isn't employed any more, although you will come across installations which have it. If I were required to extend such a circuit, I would break into it at the switch position (or above the switch by opening the ceiling or floor above if needed), and I would run a twin & earth feed to where it needs to go. Splitting a line and neutral into double-insulated singles run across different routes wouldn't comply with regulation 444.4.2.1 (part iii). You can still buy double-insulated singles, so maybe some people do still use them, but I've never done so and I haven't seen it in use on installations newer than those built in the Eighties.
To add to the earlier comment, if you're on a new build or a full refurbishment then full compliance with the regs is much easier, but it can be difficult to achieve on an existing installation. Take dual-RCD consumer units for example. By design they don't comply with reg 314 (division of installation) as they have a single point of failure which affects multiple circuits - i.e. when an RCD trips it might take out up to six circuits. There was an angry Twitter account recently bashing sparks who were posting pics of their neat new dual RCD boards because they're "non-compliant". That account seems to have gone now, but the point is that in the real world we're competing against cowboys who have lower overheads because they're not insured or accredited and they cut corners, so you can't always put in a higher cost RCBO board if the client is on a budget and isn't interested in the benefit an RCBO board would offer, therefore reg 314 often gets sacrificed for cost. Is that bad? Well, a dual RCD board is a lot safer to have than the BS3036 rewirable fuse box it probably replaced so lets not berate installers who fit them when we don't know what budgetary constraints the client placed upon them! As another example, say you get called to a simple minor works - a new socket spur is needed to eliminate a long trailing extension lead that's a trip hazard. Should be a simple in-and-out job, but reg 132.16 requires you to check existing equipment such as earthing and bonding are adequate before alterations are made, and regs 631.4 and 631.5 require that work to be signed off and certified afterwards so you accept the liability. Say you check and find the circuit CPC and the main earth are okay, but the gas bond is missing, and the gas meter is located some distance from the MET which would result in breaking into final finishes to get a bonding cable installed. You have two choices: tell the client the work cannot be done without the bonding upgrade and walk away if she can't or won't pay for the additional work, or perform the spur installation and advise the client of the bonding problem and what needs to be done. On many forums you'll find people who say they'll walk away because they can't comply with reg 132.16. Personally, I'd do the job and note on the certificate that the gas bond is missing and the client wouldn't authorise me to put it right. I figure that if I don't do the job, she'll find someone who will, perhaps someone who won't do it to the same standard I work to, so there's no point me losing that business. Can I sleep at night knowing regulation 132.16 wasn't satisfied on that job? Well yes, because the installation is safer after as the trip hazard and long-lead extension are gone and the circuit has been tested as being in good condition so I know it should be safe and serviceable. Will someone one day get a shock from the gas pipework? Maybe, but if I've made the client aware of the risk and she hasn't authorised me to remedy it then the liability for that risk passes back to her. I have no power to enforce safety on anyone in their own home, only to ensure the installations and modifications I make are themselves safe. Sometimes running a business gets in the way of abiding by all the regs, but the client is king and they won't always let you do things how you would like. The IET/BSI know this though, that's why the regs are non-statutory and in many cases leave some leeway for the guy-on-the-ground to make the call about how to do the job.
David Savery Electrical Services Thanks for taking the time to reply David the lighting query is now cleared up apart from ,here he goes again ,I'm sure when I asked the nic, the bedroom that needs extending does incorporate the bathroom lighting on the circuit but is not on the rcd side of the board I'm sure he said this is ok though ?useful adding the regs numbers in on your example to reference to are dual rcd boards now none complient ? Are we suppose to fit rcbo boards now as standard, jobs are ultimately guided by the customer requirements but they can soon grow fangs when things go wrong even if they were advised on the correct way to Carry out works
your voice sounds like Ian Dale of LBC
Haha, that's so true.
That’s the 16th 17th is green !
must have got your 17th off Ebay!!
17th is a sort of cheap mustard colour.
My 16th was Red
@@floatybyboaty my sixteenth was brown
i hate this book so much
Zs times?
You're slakin Davy boy