The emperor did not want to be a god and yet he paints everything he owns in gold, everything he does glows, and is literally handsome squid ward incarnated. Alrighty big E makes sense.
I believe that it was made so that conquering planets were easier. It made him and his Custodes look more powerful and awe-inspiring. For 5k years mankind suffered, then one day, you see a tall man clad in gold followed by a legion of similarly armored men, would you not join them?
@@abysso5786 oh I would totally join them. The emperors leadership skills were great on paper, in action, and visually. He really knew what he was doing when it came to concurring. But I still find it amusing that In the end he is forced to watch as his greatest fears arise.
i saw some theory saying that the big E knew that one of his sons's would be betray so he picked the weakest one for the perfect position to fall to chaos and so he picked horus to be the warmaster because he would have done the least damage@@grawss
If the Emperor's visions of the future are like a book, i think he just skips to the last chapter, read "and the emperor won", said 'Yup, i'll go with this plan' missing the 10,000 pages where he's screaming in agony for a thousand + years while humanity dies and suffers by the quadrillions.
IKR, or better yet, he read the entire book, saw the part that he became a god, and then after finishing the book, mind wiping that part of the book from his memory and went on his plan.
He's not really screaming in agony, he can talk to people if he really wanted to. Compared to being a servitor it's not the worst fate, and he is gaining immense power from the ordeal. Also he's older than 10K years so the pain hasn't lasted very long for his existence, which could be 1 million years old with the shamans. Assuming 40k actually used the start of human history.
Maybe the Emperor is the last old one and is even more than millions of years old and he created the entire human race from scratch. Not likely since he couldn't access the webway but maybe he was just some drone weak old one and never knew how the old one's created the webway in the first place, or maybe it needed the different technology since the human race wasn't psychic enough to build the webway the way it originally was, or maybe the webway in it's current form could never have existed if they tried to make it now during the time of the Chaos Gods existence and it could only ever have been created long ago before the warp was so malign.
I can’t stop thinking about the conversation between Lorgar and Magnus in The First Heretic “he seen what we were doing. How we worshipped him. How we did everything for him. And only when we didn’t conquer worlds fast enough did he reprimanded us” - something like that. But basically Lorgar admits that Big E seen how the people of his (Lorgar) homeworld worshipped him and said and did nothing. He said “I’m not a god”, but didn’t stop anything Lorgar and his Sons were doing until AFTER Lorgar took forever to conquer worlds
I think the only parts of the future that The Emperor didn't accurately see were the things that Tzeentch Himself had a direct hand in changing. That's why he was so uncharacteristically upset when Magnus astral projected to Terra, because it WASN'T part of the plan and threw everything off. It might have made The Emperor lose His bearings in the timeline.
The priest walking back into the burning church to burn with it is a very telling thing to me. I feel like it illustrates to the audience and perhaps the Emperor the power of faith.
It's a crutch a lot of weak people use because it is easier that way and has a lot of the same effects on the mind as drugs or alcohol do. Wich is also shown plenty in 40k.
@Calen Williams I probably sound more passive aggressive than I intend to, but how does what you wrote have impact on my point. I mean yes of course faith alters your perception of reality. Every kind of faith does that even faith in yourself. And that is not even necessarily a bad thing (you even need confidence to succeed or at least it makes it easier) just like alcohol isn't. The problem is overindulgence. Real religious fanatics aren't fun to be around and react often similar to addicts.
@Calen Williams Not to be pedantic, but certain beliefs can be internally consistent and cross-checked with each other, while others can't. If everything is faith, then nothing is. We tend to use specific words to distinguish things from others. Faith usually implies _total_ confidence in something at the very least, with no possibility of falsification. Even if you get into the whole “problem of induction” thing, when you establish certain axioms or assumptions about the world (to build your operating worldview off of), why would you prefer having to make more unverifiable/unfalsifiable assumptions than less? Some beliefs are going to require fewer assumptions than others, and if they imply anything observable about the world, their implications can be proven as consistent, internally and with each other. The problem is saying it all has to be _equally_ valid or invalid, instead of saying that some beliefs appear to align more with reality and can be deemed superior for most purposes that humans use beliefs for. It's a kind of weird black & white, all-or-nothing thinking. If you can agree on _any_ standard of value from which to judge things, with values meant to guide actions, you have no way of judging any action as better or worse than another unless there's a shared consistent reality. Nobody operates like this, we're inquisitive and try to minimize assumptions when it matters, but we tend to be selective about how we apply inquisitive thinking when it doesn't matter. Instead, we fall back on social conventions or gut feeling. That's fine in practice because most of us do it for most things, but it gets weird when used in an argument with any other person: _“Why are you applying the same standard we both apply to everything, to X, when I don't?”_ The reply to that would probably just be: _“Why not?”_ You could argue that an inclination for minimizing the assumptions needed in pursuit of a consistent worldview with verifiable predictive power, is kind of a starting point for rejecting mysticism and embracing an “orderly” (geddit?) worldview. Also, the 40k humans probably have more reasons than we do to go the orderly route, with Chaos being a thing. Of course… Big E can't just tell people this whole story, and has to play the role of the philosopher king with the noble lie, about the real reasons for the Imperial Truth. There's a recurring theme in 40k about species like the Interex or regular humans being told just enough information about Chaos to be dangerous, or nothing at all, with predictable results. Not sure if they (the Imperium & Big E) ever just gambled with hoping most people would mostly do the right thing most of the time in most situations, when it came to Chaos. Warbands like the Blood Pact and radical inquisitors like Eisenhorn exist that remain loyal despite not only using warp magic, but straight up summoning daemons. It would be a hell of a gamble, kind of like hoping the Emperor would be a perpetual and offing him early. Still, it's not like they got that much to lose, unless you're one of the Imperial elite on Terra or on pleasure worlds… Chaos is just, generally, annoyingly inconsistent in 40k from a writing standpoint. If that's some kind of on-purpose “meta” thing, its primary purpose seems to be making things more boring by giving writers an easy way to shit out deus ex machinas to save the status quo. I need to touch grass more.
Of course it does. People today are just as indoctrinated as in the Warhammer 40k universe. But yeah faith so good. "Im forgiven for all my sins so I can sin again! Who cares about the atrocities my people have committed? We have faith!"
@Calen Williams well yes you got a point but cultural acceptance only goes so far. Take the imperial cult for example. You can accept them however you like they would still purge us if we didn't fall in line.
At the beginning of the Valdor Novel there is a talk between two characters that's both highly ambiguous and revealing. Combining this with a number of other hints, as well as one of the original influences behind the lore, Dune, I think we can pull together something of the basics of the Big E's plan. He is very much against religion, but is not afraid to use its trappings for His own gain. He knew that becoming a God was inevitable (just look at how the Tau's "greater Good" is beginning to manifest in the warp now that it's being accepted by other, more psychic, races) so He set up those traps deliberately. Creating Chaplains within the Astarites for example. I think His plan was to weaken the Chaos Gods, replace them and then "implode" for lack of a better description. He wanted to remove all references to the four, replace them with Himself and then engineer a rebellion against Himself at the same time! In this way His hypocrisy is calculated. His subjective cruelty carefully weighed against His other acts. Ultimately resulting in humanity seeing both Emperors and religion as bad things. In the wake of His plan humanity would turn their backs on both and have the knowledge to move on. Becoming a psychic race on par with, if not greater than, the Elder, but learning from their mistakes rather than compounding them. It was a fine balancing act, one that the Chaos Gods have really thrown through a hoop, but there is still hope it might work and the Emperor becomes both the greatest villain and savour in the history of Humanity. Both hated and revered at the same time and with one resounding lesson. Never to let it happen again.
If we are to take this seriously, the fact that the god emperor always existed in some way in the warp and all of this was his way of making sure that he will exist, then doesn't that mean that the man-emperor, the god emperor mortal form, disgust towards religion is because he saw what his future self was planning and the death and suffering it will bring and decided to undercut it while he still could? Maybe the reason why he was in such a hurry was because he was trying to prevent it all by rushing his webway project and definitely cut off humanity from the warp, and more importantly from the god emperor.
Very cool theory! Like the god emperor was manipulating himself. Mayhaps the Manperor truly believed in what he preached, but didn't realize he was being manipulated by his god self! Full tinfoil hat mode engaged 😂
Ohh this kind of thing would give tzeentch an orgasmic reaction. The true enemy manipulating the emperor is his future more powerful version. Would explain why he sometimes seems like he is in a lucid state . He is being controlled by future him . Horus figured this out and died to a stroke not the emperor obliterating him . Chaos is fighting two similar but different enemies one more powerful and insidious. Makes sense the god emperor would manipulate its way into existence, slaanesh did the same thing by pushing the eldar into more decadence through his dark muses . Lorgar could have figured this out and is probably why he had locked himself up even before corax rolled in ,having a crisis and processing all of this . He denounced his father as his god but his godly future father may have done this intentionally to bring forth his birth so lorgar still served his godly father by betraying and denouncing him . So lorgar and Horus were the god emperor's greatest assets despite being one of the man emperor's greatest liabilities .
If you read the established titles fine print youll discover that no you dont actually own a piece of land and no you cannot legally add lord, laird or lady to your name. That whole thing is a big scam.
Decades worth of lore, written by dozens of different authors. Theories and speculation about the Machiavellian plots of a God-like super-genius with the ability to see possible futures. The prospect of deciphering a single, cohesive narrative is like trying to catch smoke with your hands.
The Emperor's story reminds me a little of Tony Stark from the first Iron Man movie: In his quest to rid the world of weapons, he gave it its greatest one. For the Emperor, in his quest to rid humanity of religion, he ended up giving it its greatest (and most horrific) one.
Some of this is covered in some black library books. The emperors foresight was imperfect. There was a degree of uncertainty. In that light he had to keep shifting plans to make the best of the hands he was dealt. If foresight was perfect than tzeentch would have already won the great game but the idea of the emperor as a warp god in the future influencing the past is genius. Great stuff Wes. Brilliant video.
@@lastraven7205 he literally has a guy who constantly sees the past and the futures… unlike everyone else he can or rather could win the great game if he really wanted to and be successful, however a certain future with one absolute (yourself) wouldn’t be very interesting.
Tzeentch doesn’t *want* to win the great game, I don’t think any of the Chaos Gods do (Khorne doesn’t want an end to violence, Nurgle won’t be able to play with his sibs/make them miserable and test out an awesome new disease he made, and I’m like pretty sure Slaanesh loves the experience of war and battle). Tzeentch foresight is also different, it’s a million different threads that could happen, which makes sense since he’s the god of change
One of my favorite moments is Uriah (The Last Church) arguing, asking if secular governments in the past have never started a war and the Emperor just stayed quiet. And shortly after he began a secular crusade that killed billions maybe trillions in order to destroy superstition, faith or religion or any form of spirituality. The irony is even during the Crusade the people started worshipping him already in the billions even before he became the official God Emperor
i loved the hypothetical conversation TTS did on their podcast episode on the last church when they "brought uriah back from the dead to talk" both argued these points again and while humorous, uriah still makes good points as much as im not a religious person.
It’s a Nietzsche nightmare. The one thing he feared was man killing God (as triumphant as some people want to portray it) because when God is dead mankind will replace him and mankind is far more mailable and corruptible than a God. People will fight for separate interpretations of the same God but just as many fight to preserve the actual word of God. Religion is a backdrop and measuring stick for how a person should conduct themselves. If those things don’t exist he calls it “The death of Man” mankind dies when it can no longer reflect on itself, when mankind makes itself god instead it will be a time when worlds suffer and mankind cannot care because mankind believes itself better than the world it lives in.
The difference between religious killings and killings of a secular governments is one: the motivation. Religion is delusion. There is no better way to describe its level of truth. In any religion, it is impossible to prove the existence of a god. Seemingly Statically improbable events were named miracles, even tho in the grand scheme of things this seemingly statically improbable events are not chaotic nor improbable, rather they are orderly and statistically almost guaranteed. Religion arose from our ignorance and need to quench it. We made up stories of mystics, because at the time we couldn’t explain certain events. However this is inherently flawed… because religion doesn’t seek to investigate the truth. It has already established its “truth” and they work backwards from that truth. And since religion is based on nothing but falsehood and belief, it is inherently impossible for it to represent truth. Because there is no evidence for existence of god… there is evidence against it. According to science it is physically impossible for there to be heaven or even god. Why is this relevant? Because religion has never been agreed to by everyone… and people have been forced to abide by arbitrary rules that are different place to place and place in time. Such things only create divide between people who don’t agree with one another. Death? Who cares more will be born. Suffering? That will happen even in perfect utopias… the divide is the problem. Once a country is defeated the logical decision is to bow down and work together with that country to better both parties. However, religion has been used to control people and force them to make illogical decisions. Such as uprisings. Greed for power is always there. Be it religion or government. Religion was used as a tool to achieve that power. That divided between menkind is the truly unforgivable thing. Because that divide insures that there will only be conflict. The emperor rid the galaxy of that divide. He tried to establish logic instead of superstition… without superstition, there would be no culture and without culture humanity would be like minded and logical. A government like our own is filled only by people who care about their personal power. But they are forced by the system that we have created to obey the rules… or others who seek power will capitalize on them breaking this rules. They have no other choice but to do their job and advance in power by bettering lives of their people. It’s a system that cares for it citizens not because it’s kind, but because it has to. Hence any wars this government starts, in the end benefit the nation as a whole. Or it the reason for starting the war. Now imagine that, but with a nation of like minded individuals spanning the entire galaxy. People who only make the logical decisions and people who have been indoctrinated to benefit the imperium and advance technology. Imagine how much progress and unity that would bring.
The emperor is such an interesting part of the lore, I want to see them expand more on him it at the same time the fact we don’t really know him makes him so much cooler for the mystery of it all.
Agreed. I think I'd they ever do, whatever they come up with will never be as cool as it is in the fans speculations. It's a bit like a horror movie, when they finally show the monster (and it's not as cool or scary as you thought).
I’ve known about 40K for years but only recently took an active interest in the series. Besides the space marines, the intergalactic battles, and other cool sci-fi stuff in the story, of course, what also attracted me are the philosophical and social undertones in the series (faith, limits of human progress, science, AI, morality, even the relationship between man and society).
I was always on the thought that Big-E WAS and IS a god but he hated it and never wanted to be a god and WANTED to be Human, so he rejects his own nature, he denies himself but since being stuck on the throne he's been forced to accept his real self and be the god he was always meant to be.
That makes a great theory. This explains why the emperor denied his godhood in 30K this entire time. I believe that the horned rat and the greater good chaos gods are nothing more than shards of the emperor, twisted by superstition and belief.
@@orrorsaness5942 It gets better if you add his Shaman sacrifice origin, they wanted a god to act as Humanities protector so they made one, but Big-E was born a Human and most likely never asked or wanted to be Humanities god and protector, it was forced onto him, he was forced to take up the mantle, so he resents it, hence his hate for his own godhood and gods in general, then lets looks to check on the other gods of the setting and well... yeah they leave a lot to be desired to say the least, so he has an intense hate for all thing 'god' related that includes himself, so no religion allowed, no worship of him, no nothing but then the throne happens and he can't escape, so he's bombarded by prays and cries for help and salvation from the people he's supposed to protect 24/7, he has no choice but to finally accept his true nature and become the god he was always supposed to be.
Define what a god means to you. The emperor of man was a galactic psykic power capable of bending reality with his will. He still needed help and a lab to make the primarchs. The ruinous powers are worshipped and can grant magical powers, but each of them was once just some random unintelligent parasite in the warp. The eldar pantheon are capable of a lot of miraculous powers but they were all constructed by the eldar as weapons to kill other gods. Speaking of the ctan, they were formed as part of the genesis of the material universe and predate the warp entirely. They can manipulate souls without the warp, and killing or shattering them has dramatic effects on the physics and cosmology of the entire universe let alone galaxy. But even they used to be non sentient and none of them are all knowing or even as close to it as the Lord of Change. So in 40k, what really even is a god? There are no beings which exist in that world as powerful as the g_d of abraham, or Thoth, or Shiva. The gods of irl humans are all way more powerful than anything called a "god" in 40k
Perhaps his future self, as a god, was always trying to influence his past self but he didn't want that future and went about trying to accomplish his goals another way... Until Magnus "accidentally" ruined his plan and then he just had to go with the god path? Interesting to think about.
I think how Emps was with Ra Endymion was his truest self, as that is how he is with them. The other bit is Emps like a lot of characters with foresight, also tend yo have this thing called "future instinct", where something strongly nudges them to do x or y in a certain way, and they do not know why or the details. You can actually see an example of that in the conversation Emps had with Cawl(b4 he was Cawl) , where he's like "I don't know why but you will be useful to me Cawl" So the Void Dragon thing and much of what he does is likely to be a instinct thing.
That must also be what stopped Sanguinius from killing Conrad. He knew Conrad wasn't meant to die there, and so he instinctively stopped his blade before it struck.
All this talk brings me back to the beginning chapters of “Imperium Ascendant”. Where the emperor is using parallel universes like iterations of the same line of code, and once his universe is about to be ended, he channels the power he’s amassed through the throne to contact himself (at presumably different times) in the past to warn him. And if THAT Emps can’t win the game, then he repeats the process. And he can make minute adjustments to his account to bolster the strength of his allies. Or make the process simpler. All the different reasons/strats stated in this Vid are given weight. It’s intent and it’s irony.
When Guilliman asked why it would be perilous to see the Emperor revived a Belakor line from Total War Warhammer came to my mind: "Because gods are selfish!!! They will betray you, as they betrayed me!!!" It´s funny just how well that line fits, and how true it is at that. How are you meant to trust a God. If you were an ant, would you trust a human? At best they will keep you as a pet, at worst, you will be nothing to them. We are lucky that, in the universe of 40K, even gods may die.
@@wernerwernerowy8761 well, Slaanesh was created (indirectly) by people, in this case, the Eldar. The opposite might as well be applicable; by suppressing the emotions of an uncountable number of people that fuels each Chaos God, they would probably be, at least, weakened. After all, they feed on those emotions. It's just that it's incredibly difficult
I think yes. But not because he wanted to. It was the best, or perhaps the *only* choice. OR, the part of his soul that he cut off is the seed he has sown for the future!!!! His decaying corpse (and perhaps the imperium itself) is nothing more than the fertilizer for the true essence of the Emperor.
If the "Great" Emperor has been able to pull that kind of Punch, even aside His atrocities, crimes and unjusticed eradications, we should bow to him for having such a clear and crafty mind to orchestrate These Events. Aside of the theory for His true Form been waiting in the Warp or Not, His ambitions have been, as I think, the Peak of being human. Aside all this, the creationals Call Machine's advise is VERY true spoken, wise and motivating to think farther ahead. Something to consider
@@luxj.9451 Thanks, it's from Azur Lane. And, didn't someone once said God is residing in everyone of us? Wise words, the emperor may be one of the possible peaks of that statement
@@luxj.9451 It's Always fun to discuss opinions, quotas Lore so it's rather me who should thank you for your opinion ✌️ And No, Not Borderline Yandere Kitsune Carrier 😂 a Miko, her little Sister's ship is Yamashiro. Good luck Out there, Take Care and maybe get to Share opinions again ✌️ C ya
@@Ibrahim.l20what determines if there a god or not is arbitrary based on if there worshiped just like real life and in 40k they transend there body and become a warp entity
He didn't really orchestrate these events. He forced situations to reach tipping points and then flew by the seat of his pants trying to achieve the best outcome for his interests.
Amazinh video. The last convo about "Troughs leading to actions. Therefore thoughts are perilous." and "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" is a great irony of Lorgar's story.
Wasn’t there an ancient loyalist dreadnought Word bearer, and devout worshipper of the God Emperor, who was able to Smite a band of Traitor Word Bearer Astartes with some type of GodEmperor Holy magic. When the traitors came to capture/kill him in the 41st century? And its theorized that he was soo powerful because he had been devout worshipper of the God-E for like 10,000 years, and collected a huge amount of holy power through that worship? I forget what he was called, but it was a pretty cool concept.
Ancient rylanor was just a chad, had a virus bomb and convinced thousand sons marines to turn loyal once more to help him dunk on fulgrim with said virus bomb
I think the Emperor's plan is to always have a plan, but that doesn't mean any particular plan was the plan all along. The end of Master of Mankind seems to make it clear that his *best* laid plans, the Primarchs, the Webway project, Magnus's specific intent for the Golden Throne, had failed and he didn't know what to do. But that doesn't mean he didn't decide on a next-best plan in the very next moment. He specifically thought the Imperium and humanity was ultimately doomed for certain but it could be the best possible type of doom. And maybe the best possible doom was to create an Inquisition that protects and enforces faith, grow that faith for 10,000 years, transcend to Godhood and usurp the power and influence of the Chaos Gods that would have spelled a worse kind of doom.
I gotta say Wes, you’re by far the best Warhammer 40k Lore channel I’ve seen so far. Your voice is great, you speak with passion, and you clearly put a lot of thought into these videos. Thank you for not only properly introducing me to Warhammer 40k, but for making me absolutely enjoy this Lore without ever having played any Warhammer game at any point even to date.
Idk about "best", but Wes does put out quality content and I am a fan. Some other 40k channels I would recommend would be 40k Theories, Luetin09, and Warrior Tier. I'd say Wes for sure has the best shorts. 40k Theories is good speculative content. Luetin is a lot of lore and information on the tabletop game. Warrior Tier is very cinematic with their videos. Great visuals, music, and voice acting.
So my personal theory is that the Emperor didn’t on becoming a god until he was wounded or sometime around then. I think he thought then, of the Last Church, and realized two things. 1) He had been wrong to deny the power of faith. 2) He had been right to deny his own godhood, because as evident by point 1, he was fallible. These two points led him to his current plan, of becoming a god. I can’t really prove any of this, but it’s my head cannon for what big E told Alicia Dominica when she stood before the throne. This is why the Ebon Chalice guards a “hallowed truth”, a secret passed down from this time. They know that their faith is a lie, the Emperor is NOT a god. But they also know that he can be, that he SHOULD be; but that can only happen if they keep the faith in him strong over the centuries. This sacred task, and secret, is their burden to bare until the Emperor finally awakens to his full godhood. At least that’s my fun headcannon. Lol. Honestly, I’d almost prefer never knowing what secret the Sisters actually protect.
@@leonidaspereirafilho499 It's never been specified, not in the slightest. It is one of the wiser 'non answer' bits of lore, as nothing they could write would be as fitting as what each person imagines it to be. Be that "Goge is a heretic." or even "Whack that fool for me!"
@@leonidaspereirafilho499 apparently that's never been revealed. though, "say" might not be fully accurate in the first place to describe how the emperor can communicate with others. iirc luetin recently made a video about that.
I think it is so much simpler. The Emperor can't see into the future, he can only see into the possible futures. He plans the best path he can to get to where he wants but he can't see every possibility or plan for every possibility and so he unfortunately ends up on the throne. From there he is now running a new plan based on this new path that he is on or it could be his back up plan based on a worst case scenario he had planned for.
Also, dude. You're quickly becoming one of my FAVORITE warhammer lore experts. Amazing energy, great story telling and knowledge. I've been listening to Warhammer lore since 2008, and you're doing amazing man. I love your theories, and the amount of effort you put into them, as well as the work into compiling lore across the ages. Love your channel, good sir
Hey man, I just wanted to say, I've been watching your videos for almost 6 months now, started on yt,then tiktok now on UA-cam again. I've been going through such a hard time mentally, wh40k has been my hobby for the past 6 months and it's helped me see some good in life and keep going. Thank you, your videos make a difference ❤
This is your best video I've seen. I like the small form bits of lore you give too, but your method of delivering longform and detailed lore is more digestible and enjoyable than a lot of 40k loretubers. keep it up!
My headcannon: The Emperor saw the "Dark age of technology" as a false peak for humanity, so he conspired with chaos to end it via warp disruption - as while humanity was that strong due to tech, that strength prevented them from evolving further into a true psychic race. The chaos gods gave him the power he asked for and agreed to his plan - malcador was in on this and likely introduced big E to the warp gate Horus found - likely the sigilites came up with the idea to destroy the golden age to enact the current setting to push that very evolution. The sigilites probably did a bunch of f'd up sh*t along the way, like infecting the men of iron with chaos corruption and causing trillions of deaths. His plan was set, rebuild the human Empire, then via the heresy plunge the galaxy into permanent war, empowering chaos and pushing humanity to evolve to the next level. He ends the war by killing both horus and sanguineous then takes his place on the throne to be fed 10,000 psykers each day, slowly augmenting himself into a God. I wonder how much of this is known by the black legion....
Remember Malcador saying that the Emperor wasn't the Emperor until they met? That was when he was introduced to this grand plan and became the public face of everything, agreeing to lead an Empire knowing full well he'd end up stuck in a chair for 1000 years unable to whack off or scratch his balls. Clearing religion was needed to both set up the conflict with Horus, and to pave the way for his own worship, with that worship being a necessary stepping stone between current understanding of the universe and a true understanding of the warp and its mechanics. Chaos gods are babies relatively, being not much older than the big E himself, if they are older at all, there's no reason to believe that in another 50,000 years there won't be an entirely new set of gods reflecting the psychic shadow of intelligent life in the galaxy, whether they are outright replaced or simply evolve with the population. The big E and the Primearchs are set up to be humanity's new pantheon of gods, worshipped for their extremely well known and clear traits, strength, justice, mercy, etc - whether they were already minor warp gods stuffed into superhuman bodies, or something else entirely, their worship as demigods will eventually result in that becoming the reality within the warp - just look at the aspects of Sanguineous and the Big E that show up on battlefields to save the day. If you watch Ghost in the Shell: SAC, there is a similar concept where the major meets her shadow in the internet, generated over time to reflect every aspect of the character - I see the Emperor doing the same, but merging himself with that reflection in the warp to become something entirely new.
So basically big e and Malcador worked together to end the golden age of technology, made a deal with Chaos to provide a galaxy permanently at total war, maximising their power (Chaos "winning" is bad for them as they'd lose many of the very people that fuel their power). This was a "golden path" for 40K, forcing humanity into a hellish galaxy to force their evolution into a true psychic race of the future, eventually reaching a level where even the current Chaos gods can't stand up to their power. The second the crusade started the clock began to count down, meaning big e had to conquer as much as possible as fast as possible, and also set about ensuring the half of the primarks that stayed loyal were the ones he wanted.
@@xsjado_anon well I think you might be onto something. I mean we literally have very little to no knowledge of the Golden age except some implications from factions like the interex, diasporex or the other factions that existed before the imperium. Hell the Eldar doesn't even reference the DAOT. It's just too strange.
@@xsjado_anon The Imperium hates psykers and has the power to turn all of humanity into them but the inquisition adamantly refuses and calls that heresy. There are less psykers in 40k than there were in pre-medieval Terra. No longer do you have entire armies of shaman running around after all.
Honestly that one statement might be one of the most terrifying things about this. "What entered the throne room of the imperial palace may not be what emerges." What exactly has the Emperor become while he sat upon that throne, holding back the Warp and the hunger of dark gods?
A personal theory of mine concerning the theory that the Emperor actually orchestrated the Horus Heresy is that, even though he planned it, what he didn't plan was that Horus would betray him. Angron or Mortarion ? Planned. But Horus? I'm not so sure, as he really bonded with him.
I think from the moment they were stolen away - which seemed a genuine surprise, galvanising him into launching the crusade earlier than planned - the Emperor knew some of his sons would betray him and that it would be a great pivot point but didn't know which ones: so he tried to stack the deck as to which ones would fall when he met them in the hopes this would mean that he'd ultimately win. But he couldn't control where they'd ended up, the order of rediscovery or their formative years, so things like the Night Haunter, Angron and Lorgar going completely off-plan in terms of personality and purpose basically threw in absolute wild cards. I think Horus' betrayal was a genuine shock, as he'd spent the most time 'priming' him.
I also think that it is probably easier to set the seed for a pivot point like the mechanicum thousands of years off than it is to say, set a seed to steer a war. He looks ahead at big scale changes, he works back to see what wrought them and finds the one significant pivot. Then hits that. Can't control all the individual actions that result but you don't need to cos it's all averages adding up to a tide from that point on. ...unless someone else hits a pivot point, like stealing the primarchs right before maturation was complete.
I like the black rage Sanguineous theory but with the twist that it was alway the emperors plan like sang looses himself to the rage kills Horus and attaks him in a way that wouldn’t fully kill him since he’s an injured savage beast. The emporor kills him and uses his remaining physically bound power erases Horus there by keeping his nature as a perpetual stunted long enough to become a god as he slips away at he thinks “just as planned” he created a martyr and became a God in one go while creating an eternal threat that would keep the imperium/humanity United against something forever while in time potentially creating a demon prince of his own (warp entity Sanguineous). The emporor had Sanguineous gift of four sides as well so he must have seen where things were going to go if he didn’t want to “die” he could have given the anti warp energy spear to sang instead of Russ.
Really cool idea. Going further on whether or not it was his plan from the start, a quirk of fate, or a plan b, maybe it was all of them. As in originally the emperor had no intention of becoming a God. But then he ended up one anyway, decided his ascent was inevitable and began influencing his past self to make sure it happened, just with some slight tweaks. Basically his foresight isn't entirely just psychic in nature but his future self giving him knowledge of what will happen to make sure it happens close enough to what he previously experienced to avoid any time paradox shenanigans, but with enough slight differences to tip the balance in his favor. Essentially "well crap, I become a God either way. Might as well make it happen on my terms". Which could hold some implications that the original emperors timeline was so much worse than the current 40k that he felt the need to change it.
It’s pretty clear by the end of the heresy that the emperor was flying by the seat of his pants and had no plan that being said he did absolutely nothing to stop the spread of the imperial cult which was something he absolutely had the power to quash even at the end of the heresy again and again he lets Euphrate keeler and others like her do what they wanted he clearly has every intention of becoming a god at that point he even displays hints of godlike aspirations in the past for instance we learn from Urda that he asked her to worship him
I recently began reading into the lore of the Night Haunter and Night Lords, and his story is quite tragic, but I also found mention that his "crown" actually contains an Eldar spirit stone in it. This means that the setting is open to Curze's resurrection and possibly a Second Founding of the Night Lords as newly-established loyalists. Could you do a video diving into this topic?
New to Warhammer 40k(joined 2021 Oct) This channel has help me understand more and more about the history and lore of the 40k universe. Can’t wait for the day that the God Emperor finally leaves the golden throne.
It's possible that becoming a kind of warp god was always the plan, but I highly doubt the heresy and his "death" were ever part of that plan. Why bother trying to build into the web way if magnus was just going to screw it up?
I agree. When describing the emperor as a warp being in the current time, he has trouble even being coherent. How it takes great willpower to even talk to Roboute. He seems to be barely conscious of his own divinity. Just kinda acting on instinct. So how could he help his part self with a detailed complex plan.
One theory is that the Heresy was quasi-planned. The theory goes that when the Emperor went into the Warp to gather power (and potentially materials) to make the primarchs, he wasn't strong enough to overcome the Chaos gods. So, he made a bargain with them that they'd give him what he needs to make them, and the Chaos gods would get half of them as followers/worshipers. It does partly explain why he's a massive asshole to some and a dedicated father to others. The quasi-planned part comes because the Chaos gods screwed up everything and started the Heresy earlier than the Emperor anticipated.
People always ignore this when they say that everything that happened was according to plan. So many actions make 0 sense of he knew how the heresy would turn out.
When you lay it out like this is seems more likely the Emperor is the puppet of the Emperor. It seems his foresight was just glimpses he needed to see to reach an eventuality. The point where his foresight ends is just before his final fight with Horus and his internment on the throne. Which would lend credibility to that.
Personally, I think becoming a god was a last ditch effort at preserving humanity should all else fail. It was not, by any means, his first option, but his last. It might help explain why he allowed the Mechanicum to worship him as the Omnissiah
Very possible! It's also a common belief that if he did choose this. That if he did want to become a god then it most likely was a plan B after his web-way project was destroyed.
@@weshammer Isn't one of the most recent Black Library author interview cited of how The Emperor slowly and reluctantly to accepting his role as a deity of humanity and eventually gets to play along after suffering through the millennias? He's like a neglective parent that tried to come to terms at becoming a guardian of humanity through the method of warp-powered religiosity that he once hated so much, whereas he's aware that humanity probably might not be able to built their own Webway constructs except with chains of miracles that it's happening Besides his interventions relies mostly of The Warp's powers channeling from Immaterium which he really had issues with despite he's also having problems with usage of A.I on the other extremes of Materium, it's like he can't decides between the best two options that can accelerate the advancement and regrowing of Humanity despite he supposedly had powers to subjugate A.I and machinery to his will, his powers might had a lot of limits to a planet or even, if high-balled, up to solar system before he inferred into Golden Throne and became a galactic-scale after multiple Millennia of daily Psykers-devouring
When you think of the Void Dragon, Simion, and the Emperor of Mankind. What this reminds me in his insight and foresight, reminds me of Paul and Leto Atredes from the Dune Saga. It begs the question just how much did Dune influence Warhammer 40k.
Theory: How would Emperor would've reacted to Tau, would he destroy them or would he try ally with them, since they have highly advanced technology and they have no religions or gods
The Emperor reminded me of Morty putting on the death crystal and letting out wails that people lead to forgive him for his crimes. He even tries to wait in the desert for decades with life support from the nanobots.
Thank you for reigniting my interest in 40k. Is there a possibility of creating a video about the Space Marine chapters with their Powers and weaknesses?
This theory sounds like it's making the Emperor into a being of similar power upon the Warhammer Universe as the real world writers, effectively making him a writer/"narrator" of the franchise to explain a myriad of unexplained, unexplainable or outright incoherent details spread across the whole franchise. Still pretty EPIC !
I absolutely love hearing other people's thoughts and opinions and what they believe. I love individual thoughts! You have me as a subscriber and absolutely loved this video! Hope to hear more like this if you have anymore thoughts or your own thoughts like this in the video on any other parts of 40K Lore. Keep on Truckin brothaa😎🤘🇨🇦 Again epic video and I love how you think, it has given me a new kinda outside "Outlook" and something to do my own kill time looking up other stuff as well 👽🤘😎
Consider this: Slaanesh ate most of a species at once to be born, but the emperor has been eating nothing but psyker souls for like ten thousand years; I’ve always thought he was drip feeding godhood to himself
Do any of the books actually tell the tale from the emperors perspective (like we can hear his thoughts) or as one of the main charachters or are they all just stories we hear?
the fact you are putting a disclaimer on this is hilarious to me. Of course its meant to be all in good fun. As fanatical as 40k fans can be, and trust me I am a 40k fan boy, this is all just fiction. Love the videos dude. You and Majorkill are the best 40k UA-camrs in my opinion.
@@argeltalthecustodiankiller6552 he lived LONG before the dark age of technologie. It is stated that during the dark age of technologie that it is when he started to work on to create his genetic engineering soldiers. The custodies were created at that time
@@argeltalthecustodiankiller6552 the emperor is *MUCH* older than that. He possibly was even born at the inception of the human species. It is said that he was even Jesus as he took on important roles to lead humanity in specific ways.
Now granted I’m pretty new to 40k but I have to be honest the Emperor always confused me. From what little I have read so far he is a pretty staunch atheist. But he definitely knows multiple gods exist, for someone who tends towards logic and reason (or claims to because he seems to lean away from that a lot also) how can he remain so vehemently atheist when he knows gods exist? It paints him in my mind simply as a contrarian more than anything at least when it comes to religion
The way I view it is someone on the level of a god, who doesn't think he is a god, wouldn't think other gods are gods...if that makes sense? If they are his equals and he isn't a god, than neither are they. Fabius bile believes they are nothing more than a cluster of warp energy that has gained sentience, I feel like the emperor might think something similar.
@@weshammer It definitely makes sense and seems pretty on brand for Big E to think that way. But it sort of just make it seem like he is in denial at that point
@@Mizuna752 he was not real Atheist. Only reason why he created Imperial Truth was to starve out Chaos Gods. Emperor beleived religions keep spawning entities in warp and of everyone stop worship it would weaken chaos gods. Same reason why he was kiling pshychcers. He was created to deal with Chaos God to begin with. But he later realised that strategy didnt work. Cause people always need some absolute they can follow. Later seems he just decided become god himself. My Theory is I think he can wipe Chaos Gods. Lorw wise if one Chaos God would defeat all others Warp would reset itself. And few milion years there wont be any demon untill next time. So if Emperor would full ascend to godhood he would be able wipe all warp and make it safe for few milion years. Problem is if he would do it he would be wiped aswell along with Chaos Gods. And than humanity would decline cause all sspace traveling based on him. That why he was draging situation on one hand he can deal with Chaos but it would cost of humanity. Cause after Empeoror disaper mostlikely Tau would take over weaken and decline Empire which would go into endless civil wars for remnants of Empire. He seems was just draging thing constantly trieng find solution where both Chaos would be defeated and humanity would prevail.
@@weshammerThese discussions are kinda pointless unless we define what it means to be a god. I think Slanesh’s birth pretty much confirms that Chaos Gods are basically just collections of warp entities that formed consciousness, but does that mean they aren’t actual gods? Like, what does it take to be a legitimate god? Is it just a question of power? Can someone even be considered an atheist if they acknowledge that there are immortal entities who are empowered by worship that exist beyond our physical universe? Basically everyone who knows of the Chaos Gods could agree that they match that description.
Can't wait for tell it all final novel from emperor perspective- where we learn that he was winging it the whole time and everything was just a happy coincidence that it all worked out
Just a heads-up about the sponsor: It's a scam. Buying land through them doesn't award any actual title or designation or ownership of any kind. There are some shady aspects surrounding the charity part of it, too. Legal Eagle does a good breakdown of it all.
Hey, I’m new to WH40K and I’m taking in so much lore and these videos help so much. With that said, can it stand to reason that when the God Emperor ascended to god-hood that his existence kind of “stretched”? Like he used to not exist everywhere all the time all at once but when he became a god he can now influence himself becoming a god in the past…. Like…. Becoming a god THE ONE TIME made him a god THE WHOLE TIME? I’ve made my own head hurt lmao
Bro, I love those videos you do. Me and my brother talk about them alot. I enjoy what you're doing. I hope to see more come out. Be safe brother. For the god emperor!
I like the idea that Big E is becoming a god that eventually he will go fully into the warp and make the universe a little less awful (I have always hated the grim dark horror of 40k) I also think it fits for the emperor to have denied his divinity and that denial cost immeasurable suffering to humanity for 10k years that little scrap of horror should be used as a olive branch to the grim dark lovers that want everything to suck and be miserable
I imagine _"Welcome Back"_ by Mase would begin playing everywhere in the Imperium mysteriously when the Big Chair Skeleton resurrects with the Golden Throne empty and no one saw Him leave...
One thing I think about Lorgar-Monarchia and how this all leads to the Horus Heresy - the most fervent faith is only manifested when there's an external, very much real threat to your faith's existence. So the Horus Heresy was needed for the formation of the inquisition etc, to create the febrile atmosphere and utter devotion that elevates the God-Emperor from just a minor power like the Greater Good, to an actual warp entity that directly rivals the Ruinous Powers
I love your channel my brother. I stumbled upon it and I instantly liked and subscribed. I’m a fan of yours for life brother! Keep up the good work! 👍🏾
The emperor did not want to be a god and yet he paints everything he owns in gold, everything he does glows, and is literally handsome squid ward incarnated. Alrighty big E makes sense.
I believe that it was made so that conquering planets were easier. It made him and his Custodes look more powerful and awe-inspiring. For 5k years mankind suffered, then one day, you see a tall man clad in gold followed by a legion of similarly armored men, would you not join them?
@@abysso5786 oh I would totally join them. The emperors leadership skills were great on paper, in action, and visually. He really knew what he was doing when it came to concurring. But I still find it amusing that In the end he is forced to watch as his greatest fears arise.
Or he was actively denying his own nature? The whole is a god due to warp spagehtti but attempting to act human in certain points in time?
@@Amatsaru29 the emperor was in denial? Interesting
@@biglad7849 can see it being possible.
Malador himself stated that he and the Emperor knew Horus was going to betray them, but it seemed to be sooner than expected.
@@royaltyfree9607I’m not a 40k expert by any means but I think he got in trouble because he kinda broke EVERYTHING.
Did they know it was going to be Horus? I thought they just knew it would be someone.
i saw some theory saying that the big E knew that one of his sons's would be betray so he picked the weakest one for the perfect position to fall to chaos and so he picked horus to be the warmaster because he would have done the least damage@@grawss
I imagine what absolutely screwed everything the emperor had planned was magnus destroying the webway.
@@Gang_Stalker_Shadow_Gov This seems to be unlikely based on what he says to The chaos gods in Book 5 of Siege of Terra.
If the Emperor's visions of the future are like a book, i think he just skips to the last chapter, read "and the emperor won", said 'Yup, i'll go with this plan' missing the 10,000 pages where he's screaming in agony for a thousand + years while humanity dies and suffers by the quadrillions.
IKR, or better yet, he read the entire book, saw the part that he became a god, and then after finishing the book, mind wiping that part of the book from his memory and went on his plan.
Lol
He's not really screaming in agony, he can talk to people if he really wanted to. Compared to being a servitor it's not the worst fate, and he is gaining immense power from the ordeal. Also he's older than 10K years so the pain hasn't lasted very long for his existence, which could be 1 million years old with the shamans. Assuming 40k actually used the start of human history.
If thats so why didn't he help avert the rise of the men of iron or keep better tabs on horus?
Maybe the Emperor is the last old one and is even more than millions of years old and he created the entire human race from scratch. Not likely since he couldn't access the webway but maybe he was just some drone weak old one and never knew how the old one's created the webway in the first place, or maybe it needed the different technology since the human race wasn't psychic enough to build the webway the way it originally was, or maybe the webway in it's current form could never have existed if they tried to make it now during the time of the Chaos Gods existence and it could only ever have been created long ago before the warp was so malign.
The dialogue between Guilliman and the Inferior was absolutely amazing and makes me want to listen to this audiobook so badly.
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Which book is that armor of fate?
I can’t stop thinking about the conversation between Lorgar and Magnus in The First Heretic “he seen what we were doing. How we worshipped him. How we did everything for him. And only when we didn’t conquer worlds fast enough did he reprimanded us” - something like that. But basically Lorgar admits that Big E seen how the people of his (Lorgar) homeworld worshipped him and said and did nothing. He said “I’m not a god”, but didn’t stop anything Lorgar and his Sons were doing until AFTER Lorgar took forever to conquer worlds
@Mike finally it's here!
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@Mike is here, finally
Goddamn bots are a fucking plague
I think the only parts of the future that The Emperor didn't accurately see were the things that Tzeentch Himself had a direct hand in changing. That's why he was so uncharacteristically upset when Magnus astral projected to Terra, because it WASN'T part of the plan and threw everything off. It might have made The Emperor lose His bearings in the timeline.
Yep. The inflaction point.
Makes a lot of sence
The priest walking back into the burning church to burn with it is a very telling thing to me. I feel like it illustrates to the audience and perhaps the Emperor the power of faith.
It's a crutch a lot of weak people use because it is easier that way and has a lot of the same effects on the mind as drugs or alcohol do. Wich is also shown plenty in 40k.
@Calen Williams I probably sound more passive aggressive than I intend to, but how does what you wrote have impact on my point. I mean yes of course faith alters your perception of reality. Every kind of faith does that even faith in yourself. And that is not even necessarily a bad thing (you even need confidence to succeed or at least it makes it easier) just like alcohol isn't. The problem is overindulgence. Real religious fanatics aren't fun to be around and react often similar to addicts.
@Calen Williams Not to be pedantic, but certain beliefs can be internally consistent and cross-checked with each other, while others can't.
If everything is faith, then nothing is.
We tend to use specific words to distinguish things from others.
Faith usually implies _total_ confidence in something at the very least, with no possibility of falsification.
Even if you get into the whole “problem of induction” thing, when you establish certain axioms or assumptions about the world (to build your operating worldview off of), why would you prefer having to make more unverifiable/unfalsifiable assumptions than less?
Some beliefs are going to require fewer assumptions than others, and if they imply anything observable about the world, their implications can be proven as consistent, internally and with each other.
The problem is saying it all has to be _equally_ valid or invalid, instead of saying that some beliefs appear to align more with reality and can be deemed superior for most purposes that humans use beliefs for.
It's a kind of weird black & white, all-or-nothing thinking.
If you can agree on _any_ standard of value from which to judge things, with values meant to guide actions, you have no way of judging any action as better or worse than another unless there's a shared consistent reality.
Nobody operates like this, we're inquisitive and try to minimize assumptions when it matters, but we tend to be selective about how we apply inquisitive thinking when it doesn't matter.
Instead, we fall back on social conventions or gut feeling.
That's fine in practice because most of us do it for most things, but it gets weird when used in an argument with any other person:
_“Why are you applying the same standard we both apply to everything, to X, when I don't?”_
The reply to that would probably just be:
_“Why not?”_
You could argue that an inclination for minimizing the assumptions needed in pursuit of a consistent worldview with verifiable predictive power, is kind of a starting point for rejecting mysticism and embracing an “orderly” (geddit?) worldview.
Also, the 40k humans probably have more reasons than we do to go the orderly route, with Chaos being a thing.
Of course… Big E can't just tell people this whole story, and has to play the role of the philosopher king with the noble lie, about the real reasons for the Imperial Truth.
There's a recurring theme in 40k about species like the Interex or regular humans being told just enough information about Chaos to be dangerous, or nothing at all, with predictable results.
Not sure if they (the Imperium & Big E) ever just gambled with hoping most people would mostly do the right thing most of the time in most situations, when it came to Chaos.
Warbands like the Blood Pact and radical inquisitors like Eisenhorn exist that remain loyal despite not only using warp magic, but straight up summoning daemons.
It would be a hell of a gamble, kind of like hoping the Emperor would be a perpetual and offing him early.
Still, it's not like they got that much to lose, unless you're one of the Imperial elite on Terra or on pleasure worlds…
Chaos is just, generally, annoyingly inconsistent in 40k from a writing standpoint.
If that's some kind of on-purpose “meta” thing, its primary purpose seems to be making things more boring by giving writers an easy way to shit out deus ex machinas to save the status quo.
I need to touch grass more.
Of course it does. People today are just as indoctrinated as in the Warhammer 40k universe. But yeah faith so good. "Im forgiven for all my sins so I can sin again! Who cares about the atrocities my people have committed? We have faith!"
@Calen Williams well yes you got a point but cultural acceptance only goes so far. Take the imperial cult for example. You can accept them however you like they would still purge us if we didn't fall in line.
At the beginning of the Valdor Novel there is a talk between two characters that's both highly ambiguous and revealing.
Combining this with a number of other hints, as well as one of the original influences behind the lore, Dune, I think we can pull together something of the basics of the Big E's plan. He is very much against religion, but is not afraid to use its trappings for His own gain. He knew that becoming a God was inevitable (just look at how the Tau's "greater Good" is beginning to manifest in the warp now that it's being accepted by other, more psychic, races) so He set up those traps deliberately. Creating Chaplains within the Astarites for example.
I think His plan was to weaken the Chaos Gods, replace them and then "implode" for lack of a better description. He wanted to remove all references to the four, replace them with Himself and then engineer a rebellion against Himself at the same time! In this way His hypocrisy is calculated. His subjective cruelty carefully weighed against His other acts. Ultimately resulting in humanity seeing both Emperors and religion as bad things. In the wake of His plan humanity would turn their backs on both and have the knowledge to move on. Becoming a psychic race on par with, if not greater than, the Elder, but learning from their mistakes rather than compounding them.
It was a fine balancing act, one that the Chaos Gods have really thrown through a hoop, but there is still hope it might work and the Emperor becomes both the greatest villain and savour in the history of Humanity. Both hated and revered at the same time and with one resounding lesson.
Never to let it happen again.
I to wszystko jest częścią planu Tzeencha
If we are to take this seriously, the fact that the god emperor always existed in some way in the warp and all of this was his way of making sure that he will exist, then doesn't that mean that the man-emperor, the god emperor mortal form, disgust towards religion is because he saw what his future self was planning and the death and suffering it will bring and decided to undercut it while he still could?
Maybe the reason why he was in such a hurry was because he was trying to prevent it all by rushing his webway project and definitely cut off humanity from the warp, and more importantly from the god emperor.
Very cool theory! Like the god emperor was manipulating himself. Mayhaps the Manperor truly believed in what he preached, but didn't realize he was being manipulated by his god self! Full tinfoil hat mode engaged 😂
That is some tasty speculation
Ohh this kind of thing would give tzeentch an orgasmic reaction. The true enemy manipulating the emperor is his future more powerful version.
Would explain why he sometimes seems like he is in a lucid state . He is being controlled by future him . Horus figured this out and died to a stroke not the emperor obliterating him .
Chaos is fighting two similar but different enemies one more powerful and insidious. Makes sense the god emperor would manipulate its way into existence, slaanesh did the same thing by pushing the eldar into more decadence through his dark muses .
Lorgar could have figured this out and is probably why he had locked himself up even before corax rolled in ,having a crisis and processing all of this . He denounced his father as his god but his godly future father may have done this intentionally to bring forth his birth so lorgar still served his godly father by betraying and denouncing him .
So lorgar and Horus were the god emperor's greatest assets despite being one of the man emperor's greatest liabilities .
So the Emperor was rebelling against God, who was also himself? That's the ind of crazy things that I like XD
Holy fuck, I love that theory!
If you read the established titles fine print youll discover that no you dont actually own a piece of land and no you cannot legally add lord, laird or lady to your name. That whole thing is a big scam.
And if you would have read the age of the video... I bet he knows it by now.
Raid too and still
Decades worth of lore, written by dozens of different authors.
Theories and speculation about the Machiavellian plots of a God-like super-genius with the ability to see possible futures.
The prospect of deciphering a single, cohesive narrative is like trying to catch smoke with your hands.
Hey, comic books exist and some of those characters have existed for twice as long as 40K.
@@Kainpound ...and?
But it's fun to try
@@aguywithalotofopinions412 best
@Chainsaw Subtlety gotta say, you speaking some philosophical stuff here my guy
The Emperor's story reminds me a little of Tony Stark from the first Iron Man movie: In his quest to rid the world of weapons, he gave it its greatest one. For the Emperor, in his quest to rid humanity of religion, he ended up giving it its greatest (and most horrific) one.
Some of this is covered in some black library books. The emperors foresight was imperfect. There was a degree of uncertainty. In that light he had to keep shifting plans to make the best of the hands he was dealt. If foresight was perfect than tzeentch would have already won the great game but the idea of the emperor as a warp god in the future influencing the past is genius. Great stuff Wes. Brilliant video.
Tzeentch had already won the great game once... tho he thought that it would be boring without the other gods so he started it all over again
@@SamienBB this
@@SamienBB really?
@@lastraven7205 he literally has a guy who constantly sees the past and the futures… unlike everyone else he can or rather could win the great game if he really wanted to and be successful, however a certain future with one absolute (yourself) wouldn’t be very interesting.
Tzeentch doesn’t *want* to win the great game, I don’t think any of the Chaos Gods do (Khorne doesn’t want an end to violence, Nurgle won’t be able to play with his sibs/make them miserable and test out an awesome new disease he made, and I’m like pretty sure Slaanesh loves the experience of war and battle). Tzeentch foresight is also different, it’s a million different threads that could happen, which makes sense since he’s the god of change
started watching this before realizing was 9 months old, before the established titles debacle.
and still the ad bit is still there, good job
One of my favorite moments is Uriah (The Last Church) arguing, asking if secular governments in the past have never started a war and the Emperor just stayed quiet. And shortly after he began a secular crusade that killed billions maybe trillions in order to destroy superstition, faith or religion or any form of spirituality. The irony is even during the Crusade the people started worshipping him already in the billions even before he became the official God Emperor
i loved the hypothetical conversation TTS did on their podcast episode on the last church when they "brought uriah back from the dead to talk" both argued these points again and while humorous, uriah still makes good points as much as im not a religious person.
Ironic
It’s a Nietzsche nightmare. The one thing he feared was man killing God (as triumphant as some people want to portray it) because when God is dead mankind will replace him and mankind is far more mailable and corruptible than a God. People will fight for separate interpretations of the same God but just as many fight to preserve the actual word of God. Religion is a backdrop and measuring stick for how a person should conduct themselves. If those things don’t exist he calls it “The death of Man” mankind dies when it can no longer reflect on itself, when mankind makes itself god instead it will be a time when worlds suffer and mankind cannot care because mankind believes itself better than the world it lives in.
@@Broomer52 this
The difference between religious killings and killings of a secular governments is one: the motivation.
Religion is delusion. There is no better way to describe its level of truth. In any religion, it is impossible to prove the existence of a god. Seemingly Statically improbable events were named miracles, even tho in the grand scheme of things this seemingly statically improbable events are not chaotic nor improbable, rather they are orderly and statistically almost guaranteed.
Religion arose from our ignorance and need to quench it. We made up stories of mystics, because at the time we couldn’t explain certain events. However this is inherently flawed… because religion doesn’t seek to investigate the truth. It has already established its “truth” and they work backwards from that truth.
And since religion is based on nothing but falsehood and belief, it is inherently impossible for it to represent truth. Because there is no evidence for existence of god… there is evidence against it. According to science it is physically impossible for there to be heaven or even god.
Why is this relevant? Because religion has never been agreed to by everyone… and people have been forced to abide by arbitrary rules that are different place to place and place in time.
Such things only create divide between people who don’t agree with one another.
Death? Who cares more will be born. Suffering? That will happen even in perfect utopias… the divide is the problem. Once a country is defeated the logical decision is to bow down and work together with that country to better both parties. However, religion has been used to control people and force them to make illogical decisions. Such as uprisings.
Greed for power is always there. Be it religion or government. Religion was used as a tool to achieve that power.
That divided between menkind is the truly unforgivable thing. Because that divide insures that there will only be conflict.
The emperor rid the galaxy of that divide. He tried to establish logic instead of superstition… without superstition, there would be no culture and without culture humanity would be like minded and logical.
A government like our own is filled only by people who care about their personal power. But they are forced by the system that we have created to obey the rules… or others who seek power will capitalize on them breaking this rules. They have no other choice but to do their job and advance in power by bettering lives of their people.
It’s a system that cares for it citizens not because it’s kind, but because it has to. Hence any wars this government starts, in the end benefit the nation as a whole. Or it the reason for starting the war.
Now imagine that, but with a nation of like minded individuals spanning the entire galaxy. People who only make the logical decisions and people who have been indoctrinated to benefit the imperium and advance technology. Imagine how much progress and unity that would bring.
The emperor is such an interesting part of the lore, I want to see them expand more on him it at the same time the fact we don’t really know him makes him so much cooler for the mystery of it all.
Agreed. I think I'd they ever do, whatever they come up with will never be as cool as it is in the fans speculations. It's a bit like a horror movie, when they finally show the monster (and it's not as cool or scary as you thought).
They should do a book on The Emperor's greatest xenos battles and he learned or saw how orks and chaos will become one to paint everything green
they have expanded on him a bit.
@@tomagandhi603 once you know everything about the monster not scary anymore
@@TheDragonfridayonce i foubd out mire of this emperor i lost interest in the series
I’ve known about 40K for years but only recently took an active interest in the series. Besides the space marines, the intergalactic battles, and other cool sci-fi stuff in the story, of course, what also attracted me are the philosophical and social undertones in the series (faith, limits of human progress, science, AI, morality, even the relationship between man and society).
Isn't it mostly intra-galactic battles?
@@eboyarskiread any black library book. And it will assure you that it is not all 'Inter-galactic' battles....
I was always on the thought that Big-E WAS and IS a god but he hated it and never wanted to be a god and WANTED to be Human, so he rejects his own nature, he denies himself but since being stuck on the throne he's been forced to accept his real self and be the god he was always meant to be.
That makes a great theory. This explains why the emperor denied his godhood in 30K this entire time.
I believe that the horned rat and the greater good chaos gods are nothing more than shards of the emperor, twisted by superstition and belief.
@@orrorsaness5942 It gets better if you add his Shaman sacrifice origin, they wanted a god to act as Humanities protector so they made one, but Big-E was born a Human and most likely never asked or wanted to be Humanities god and protector, it was forced onto him, he was forced to take up the mantle, so he resents it, hence his hate for his own godhood and gods in general, then lets looks to check on the other gods of the setting and well... yeah they leave a lot to be desired to say the least, so he has an intense hate for all thing 'god' related that includes himself, so no religion allowed, no worship of him, no nothing but then the throne happens and he can't escape, so he's bombarded by prays and cries for help and salvation from the people he's supposed to protect 24/7, he has no choice but to finally accept his true nature and become the god he was always supposed to be.
@@Rubicon373 Indeed a tragic and ironic fate for a visionary that is Big E.
@@orrorsaness5942 what you expect from Warhammer
Define what a god means to you. The emperor of man was a galactic psykic power capable of bending reality with his will. He still needed help and a lab to make the primarchs. The ruinous powers are worshipped and can grant magical powers, but each of them was once just some random unintelligent parasite in the warp. The eldar pantheon are capable of a lot of miraculous powers but they were all constructed by the eldar as weapons to kill other gods. Speaking of the ctan, they were formed as part of the genesis of the material universe and predate the warp entirely. They can manipulate souls without the warp, and killing or shattering them has dramatic effects on the physics and cosmology of the entire universe let alone galaxy. But even they used to be non sentient and none of them are all knowing or even as close to it as the Lord of Change. So in 40k, what really even is a god? There are no beings which exist in that world as powerful as the g_d of abraham, or Thoth, or Shiva. The gods of irl humans are all way more powerful than anything called a "god" in 40k
Perhaps his future self, as a god, was always trying to influence his past self but he didn't want that future and went about trying to accomplish his goals another way... Until Magnus "accidentally" ruined his plan and then he just had to go with the god path? Interesting to think about.
I think how Emps was with Ra Endymion was his truest self, as that is how he is with them. The other bit is Emps like a lot of characters with foresight, also tend yo have this thing called "future instinct", where something strongly nudges them to do x or y in a certain way, and they do not know why or the details. You can actually see an example of that in the conversation Emps had with Cawl(b4 he was Cawl) , where he's like "I don't know why but you will be useful to me Cawl"
So the Void Dragon thing and much of what he does is likely to be a instinct thing.
That must also be what stopped Sanguinius from killing Conrad. He knew Conrad wasn't meant to die there, and so he instinctively stopped his blade before it struck.
All this talk brings me back to the beginning chapters of “Imperium Ascendant”. Where the emperor is using parallel universes like iterations of the same line of code, and once his universe is about to be ended, he channels the power he’s amassed through the throne to contact himself (at presumably different times) in the past to warn him. And if THAT Emps can’t win the game, then he repeats the process. And he can make minute adjustments to his account to bolster the strength of his allies. Or make the process simpler.
All the different reasons/strats stated in this Vid are given weight. It’s intent and it’s irony.
So he’s like Rick from Rick & Monty without the nihilism?
@@doug3318 we reset the Grimdark until it just Dark.
So kinda.
The main Big E of the story still has to pivot cursing sudden bouts of chaos foolery
When Guilliman asked why it would be perilous to see the Emperor revived a Belakor line from Total War Warhammer came to my mind:
"Because gods are selfish!!! They will betray you, as they betrayed me!!!" It´s funny just how well that line fits, and how true it is at that. How are you meant to trust a God. If you were an ant, would you trust a human? At best they will keep you as a pet, at worst, you will be nothing to them.
We are lucky that, in the universe of 40K, even gods may die.
Precisely. And that is why everyone who has seen the true form of the emperor was always deeply disturbed.
That's a very anthrocentric view point to be fair. Fear-based decision making.
Nie nie mogą jedyne co można zrobić to ich uśpić. ( Wybijając całe życie w galaktyce)
@@wernerwernerowy8761 well, Slaanesh was created (indirectly) by people, in this case, the Eldar. The opposite might as well be applicable; by suppressing the emotions of an uncountable number of people that fuels each Chaos God, they would probably be, at least, weakened. After all, they feed on those emotions. It's just that it's incredibly difficult
Mate I'm a massive 40k lore nerd and I can genuinely say this is the best and most interesting 40k lore video I've ever seen. Brilliant man.
I think yes. But not because he wanted to. It was the best, or perhaps the *only* choice. OR, the part of his soul that he cut off is the seed he has sown for the future!!!! His decaying corpse (and perhaps the imperium itself) is nothing more than the fertilizer for the true essence of the Emperor.
The Emperor was savescumming, like a true gamer.
If the "Great" Emperor has been able to pull that kind of Punch, even aside His atrocities, crimes and unjusticed eradications, we should bow to him for having such a clear and crafty mind to orchestrate These Events. Aside of the theory for His true Form been waiting in the Warp or Not, His ambitions have been, as I think, the Peak of being human.
Aside all this, the creationals Call Machine's advise is VERY true spoken, wise and motivating to think farther ahead. Something to consider
@@luxj.9451 Thanks, it's from Azur Lane. And, didn't someone once said God is residing in everyone of us? Wise words, the emperor may be one of the possible peaks of that statement
@@luxj.9451 It's Always fun to discuss opinions, quotas Lore so it's rather me who should thank you for your opinion ✌️
And No, Not Borderline Yandere Kitsune Carrier 😂 a Miko, her little Sister's ship is Yamashiro.
Good luck Out there, Take Care and maybe get to Share opinions again ✌️
C ya
@@luxj.9451 how can a God be born
@@Ibrahim.l20what determines if there a god or not is arbitrary based on if there worshiped just like real life and in 40k they transend there body and become a warp entity
He didn't really orchestrate these events. He forced situations to reach tipping points and then flew by the seat of his pants trying to achieve the best outcome for his interests.
Amazinh video.
The last convo about "Troughs leading to actions. Therefore thoughts are perilous." and "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" is a great irony of Lorgar's story.
Wasn’t there an ancient loyalist dreadnought Word bearer, and devout worshipper of the God Emperor, who was able to Smite a band of Traitor Word Bearer Astartes with some type of GodEmperor Holy magic. When the traitors came to capture/kill him in the 41st century?
And its theorized that he was soo powerful because he had been devout worshipper of the God-E for like 10,000 years, and collected a huge amount of holy power through that worship?
I forget what he was called, but it was a pretty cool concept.
Ancient rylanor was just a chad, had a virus bomb and convinced thousand sons marines to turn loyal once more to help him dunk on fulgrim with said virus bomb
Established titles is a known scam you shouldn’t be doing ads for
What are you talking about?
@@soulblackgamer1999look it up lil bro that title stuff is a waste of time
@@soulblackgamer1999bros right it's a scam
Don't worry. He used Betterhelp now. 😂
Behold the horror of video on demand
A video of 2 years ago
I think the Emperor's plan is to always have a plan, but that doesn't mean any particular plan was the plan all along. The end of Master of Mankind seems to make it clear that his *best* laid plans, the Primarchs, the Webway project, Magnus's specific intent for the Golden Throne, had failed and he didn't know what to do. But that doesn't mean he didn't decide on a next-best plan in the very next moment. He specifically thought the Imperium and humanity was ultimately doomed for certain but it could be the best possible type of doom. And maybe the best possible doom was to create an Inquisition that protects and enforces faith, grow that faith for 10,000 years, transcend to Godhood and usurp the power and influence of the Chaos Gods that would have spelled a worse kind of doom.
Or perhaps a "if I can't save humanity at least I can kill of those four giant reality tumors" sorta plan
I gotta say Wes, you’re by far the best Warhammer 40k Lore channel I’ve seen so far. Your voice is great, you speak with passion, and you clearly put a lot of thought into these videos.
Thank you for not only properly introducing me to Warhammer 40k, but for making me absolutely enjoy this Lore without ever having played any Warhammer game at any point even to date.
Idk about "best", but Wes does put out quality content and I am a fan. Some other 40k channels I would recommend would be 40k Theories, Luetin09, and Warrior Tier. I'd say Wes for sure has the best shorts. 40k Theories is good speculative content. Luetin is a lot of lore and information on the tabletop game. Warrior Tier is very cinematic with their videos. Great visuals, music, and voice acting.
@@kjsilvey486 I’ve come to really like Leutin and also Baldemort. His Kronan series is incredible lol
So my personal theory is that the Emperor didn’t on becoming a god until he was wounded or sometime around then. I think he thought then, of the Last Church, and realized two things. 1) He had been wrong to deny the power of faith. 2) He had been right to deny his own godhood, because as evident by point 1, he was fallible. These two points led him to his current plan, of becoming a god.
I can’t really prove any of this, but it’s my head cannon for what big E told Alicia Dominica when she stood before the throne. This is why the Ebon Chalice guards a “hallowed truth”, a secret passed down from this time. They know that their faith is a lie, the Emperor is NOT a god. But they also know that he can be, that he SHOULD be; but that can only happen if they keep the faith in him strong over the centuries. This sacred task, and secret, is their burden to bare until the Emperor finally awakens to his full godhood.
At least that’s my fun headcannon. Lol. Honestly, I’d almost prefer never knowing what secret the Sisters actually protect.
It's a good headcanon
What dod ghe Emperor say to alicia dominica?
@@leonidaspereirafilho499 I don't think that's been revealed.
@@leonidaspereirafilho499 It's never been specified, not in the slightest. It is one of the wiser 'non answer' bits of lore, as nothing they could write would be as fitting as what each person imagines it to be. Be that "Goge is a heretic." or even "Whack that fool for me!"
@@leonidaspereirafilho499 apparently that's never been revealed. though, "say" might not be fully accurate in the first place to describe how the emperor can communicate with others. iirc luetin recently made a video about that.
I think it is so much simpler. The Emperor can't see into the future, he can only see into the possible futures. He plans the best path he can to get to where he wants but he can't see every possibility or plan for every possibility and so he unfortunately ends up on the throne. From there he is now running a new plan based on this new path that he is on or it could be his back up plan based on a worst case scenario he had planned for.
Also, dude. You're quickly becoming one of my FAVORITE warhammer lore experts. Amazing energy, great story telling and knowledge. I've been listening to Warhammer lore since 2008, and you're doing amazing man. I love your theories, and the amount of effort you put into them, as well as the work into compiling lore across the ages.
Love your channel, good sir
Hey man, I just wanted to say, I've been watching your videos for almost 6 months now, started on yt,then tiktok now on UA-cam again. I've been going through such a hard time mentally, wh40k has been my hobby for the past 6 months and it's helped me see some good in life and keep going. Thank you, your videos make a difference ❤
Hey dude I really appreciate that and I hope things get better for ya. Glad to have you in the 40k community my friend :)
As someone new to Warhammer 40K I have to say your videos are a great gateway to the lore.
This is your best video I've seen. I like the small form bits of lore you give too, but your method of delivering longform and detailed lore is more digestible and enjoyable than a lot of 40k loretubers. keep it up!
Congratulations once again you have been selected among the shortlisted winner's for the ongoing Ps5 giveaway, telegram the Name above 👆❤️;.
My headcannon:
The Emperor saw the "Dark age of technology" as a false peak for humanity, so he conspired with chaos to end it via warp disruption - as while humanity was that strong due to tech, that strength prevented them from evolving further into a true psychic race.
The chaos gods gave him the power he asked for and agreed to his plan - malcador was in on this and likely introduced big E to the warp gate Horus found - likely the sigilites came up with the idea to destroy the golden age to enact the current setting to push that very evolution.
The sigilites probably did a bunch of f'd up sh*t along the way, like infecting the men of iron with chaos corruption and causing trillions of deaths.
His plan was set, rebuild the human Empire, then via the heresy plunge the galaxy into permanent war, empowering chaos and pushing humanity to evolve to the next level.
He ends the war by killing both horus and sanguineous then takes his place on the throne to be fed 10,000 psykers each day, slowly augmenting himself into a God.
I wonder how much of this is known by the black legion....
Remember Malcador saying that the Emperor wasn't the Emperor until they met? That was when he was introduced to this grand plan and became the public face of everything, agreeing to lead an Empire knowing full well he'd end up stuck in a chair for 1000 years unable to whack off or scratch his balls.
Clearing religion was needed to both set up the conflict with Horus, and to pave the way for his own worship, with that worship being a necessary stepping stone between current understanding of the universe and a true understanding of the warp and its mechanics.
Chaos gods are babies relatively, being not much older than the big E himself, if they are older at all, there's no reason to believe that in another 50,000 years there won't be an entirely new set of gods reflecting the psychic shadow of intelligent life in the galaxy, whether they are outright replaced or simply evolve with the population.
The big E and the Primearchs are set up to be humanity's new pantheon of gods, worshipped for their extremely well known and clear traits, strength, justice, mercy, etc - whether they were already minor warp gods stuffed into superhuman bodies, or something else entirely, their worship as demigods will eventually result in that becoming the reality within the warp - just look at the aspects of Sanguineous and the Big E that show up on battlefields to save the day.
If you watch Ghost in the Shell: SAC, there is a similar concept where the major meets her shadow in the internet, generated over time to reflect every aspect of the character - I see the Emperor doing the same, but merging himself with that reflection in the warp to become something entirely new.
So basically big e and Malcador worked together to end the golden age of technology, made a deal with Chaos to provide a galaxy permanently at total war, maximising their power (Chaos "winning" is bad for them as they'd lose many of the very people that fuel their power).
This was a "golden path" for 40K, forcing humanity into a hellish galaxy to force their evolution into a true psychic race of the future, eventually reaching a level where even the current Chaos gods can't stand up to their power.
The second the crusade started the clock began to count down, meaning big e had to conquer as much as possible as fast as possible, and also set about ensuring the half of the primarks that stayed loyal were the ones he wanted.
@@xsjado_anon well I think you might be onto something. I mean we literally have very little to no knowledge of the Golden age except some implications from factions like the interex, diasporex or the other factions that existed before the imperium. Hell the Eldar doesn't even reference the DAOT. It's just too strange.
except the age of technology was caused by tzeentch winning the great game it ended because according to some sources he got bored
@@xsjado_anon The Imperium hates psykers and has the power to turn all of humanity into them but the inquisition adamantly refuses and calls that heresy. There are less psykers in 40k than there were in pre-medieval Terra. No longer do you have entire armies of shaman running around after all.
Honestly that one statement might be one of the most terrifying things about this. "What entered the throne room of the imperial palace may not be what emerges." What exactly has the Emperor become while he sat upon that throne, holding back the Warp and the hunger of dark gods?
A personal theory of mine concerning the theory that the Emperor actually orchestrated the Horus Heresy is that, even though he planned it, what he didn't plan was that Horus would betray him. Angron or Mortarion ? Planned. But Horus? I'm not so sure, as he really bonded with him.
I think from the moment they were stolen away - which seemed a genuine surprise, galvanising him into launching the crusade earlier than planned - the Emperor knew some of his sons would betray him and that it would be a great pivot point but didn't know which ones: so he tried to stack the deck as to which ones would fall when he met them in the hopes this would mean that he'd ultimately win.
But he couldn't control where they'd ended up, the order of rediscovery or their formative years, so things like the Night Haunter, Angron and Lorgar going completely off-plan in terms of personality and purpose basically threw in absolute wild cards. I think Horus' betrayal was a genuine shock, as he'd spent the most time 'priming' him.
I also think that it is probably easier to set the seed for a pivot point like the mechanicum thousands of years off than it is to say, set a seed to steer a war.
He looks ahead at big scale changes, he works back to see what wrought them and finds the one significant pivot. Then hits that. Can't control all the individual actions that result but you don't need to cos it's all averages adding up to a tide from that point on.
...unless someone else hits a pivot point, like stealing the primarchs right before maturation was complete.
I like the black rage Sanguineous theory but with the twist that it was alway the emperors plan like sang looses himself to the rage kills Horus and attaks him in a way that wouldn’t fully kill him since he’s an injured savage beast. The emporor kills him and uses his remaining physically bound power erases Horus there by keeping his nature as a perpetual stunted long enough to become a god as he slips away at he thinks “just as planned” he created a martyr and became a God in one go while creating an eternal threat that would keep the imperium/humanity United against something forever while in time potentially creating a demon prince of his own (warp entity Sanguineous). The emporor had Sanguineous gift of four sides as well so he must have seen where things were going to go if he didn’t want to “die” he could have given the anti warp energy spear to sang instead of Russ.
Horus was an egyptian god whose soul was shattered. After which his beloved gathered 13 shards of his soul to ressurect him
I think that’s the best format out of all your vids. Well done
Avatar of science and reason?
Science maby, Reason…. He made 20 Gianormous guys with Mental problems
Seems reasonable to me
@@weshammer Yea, don’t know what I was even going on about (*Inquisitor, about to kick in the door, sighs*)
20 ginormous demi gods.
Really cool idea. Going further on whether or not it was his plan from the start, a quirk of fate, or a plan b, maybe it was all of them. As in originally the emperor had no intention of becoming a God. But then he ended up one anyway, decided his ascent was inevitable and began influencing his past self to make sure it happened, just with some slight tweaks. Basically his foresight isn't entirely just psychic in nature but his future self giving him knowledge of what will happen to make sure it happens close enough to what he previously experienced to avoid any time paradox shenanigans, but with enough slight differences to tip the balance in his favor. Essentially "well crap, I become a God either way. Might as well make it happen on my terms". Which could hold some implications that the original emperors timeline was so much worse than the current 40k that he felt the need to change it.
Yes. If we assume the value of prophecy then we must assume the Emperor's state is like the Golden Path in Dune
I think its a direct rip from dune
That conversation at the end gave me Goosebumps, amazing.
It’s pretty clear by the end of the heresy that the emperor was flying by the seat of his pants and had no plan that being said he did absolutely nothing to stop the spread of the imperial cult which was something he absolutely had the power to quash even at the end of the heresy again and again he lets Euphrate keeler and others like her do what they wanted he clearly has every intention of becoming a god at that point he even displays hints of godlike aspirations in the past for instance we learn from Urda that he asked her to worship him
The very end of this story is so good! The dialogue actually had my skin crawling with the thought!
I recently began reading into the lore of the Night Haunter and Night Lords, and his story is quite tragic, but I also found mention that his "crown" actually contains an Eldar spirit stone in it. This means that the setting is open to Curze's resurrection and possibly a Second Founding of the Night Lords as newly-established loyalists. Could you do a video diving into this topic?
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Can’t wait for the day that the God Emperor finally leaves the golden throne.
It's possible that becoming a kind of warp god was always the plan, but I highly doubt the heresy and his "death" were ever part of that plan. Why bother trying to build into the web way if magnus was just going to screw it up?
I agree. When describing the emperor as a warp being in the current time, he has trouble even being coherent. How it takes great willpower to even talk to Roboute. He seems to be barely conscious of his own divinity. Just kinda acting on instinct. So how could he help his part self with a detailed complex plan.
One theory is that the Heresy was quasi-planned. The theory goes that when the Emperor went into the Warp to gather power (and potentially materials) to make the primarchs, he wasn't strong enough to overcome the Chaos gods. So, he made a bargain with them that they'd give him what he needs to make them, and the Chaos gods would get half of them as followers/worshipers. It does partly explain why he's a massive asshole to some and a dedicated father to others.
The quasi-planned part comes because the Chaos gods screwed up everything and started the Heresy earlier than the Emperor anticipated.
People always ignore this when they say that everything that happened was according to plan. So many actions make 0 sense of he knew how the heresy would turn out.
I’m not going to lie Wes, leaving this video to end on the note it did…talk about chills. Awesome work!!!
When you lay it out like this is seems more likely the Emperor is the puppet of the Emperor. It seems his foresight was just glimpses he needed to see to reach an eventuality. The point where his foresight ends is just before his final fight with Horus and his internment on the throne. Which would lend credibility to that.
Like when Rose became a timegod in dr. Who. She sends messages back in time to lead her to this moment.
Thanks!
Personally, I think becoming a god was a last ditch effort at preserving humanity should all else fail. It was not, by any means, his first option, but his last. It might help explain why he allowed the Mechanicum to worship him as the Omnissiah
Very possible! It's also a common belief that if he did choose this. That if he did want to become a god then it most likely was a plan B after his web-way project was destroyed.
@@weshammer Isn't one of the most recent Black Library author interview cited of how The Emperor slowly and reluctantly to accepting his role as a deity of humanity and eventually gets to play along after suffering through the millennias? He's like a neglective parent that tried to come to terms at becoming a guardian of humanity through the method of warp-powered religiosity that he once hated so much, whereas he's aware that humanity probably might not be able to built their own Webway constructs except with chains of miracles that it's happening
Besides his interventions relies mostly of The Warp's powers channeling from Immaterium which he really had issues with despite he's also having problems with usage of A.I on the other extremes of Materium, it's like he can't decides between the best two options that can accelerate the advancement and regrowing of Humanity despite he supposedly had powers to subjugate A.I and machinery to his will, his powers might had a lot of limits to a planet or even, if high-balled, up to solar system before he inferred into Golden Throne and became a galactic-scale after multiple Millennia of daily Psykers-devouring
@@ohamatchhams I think the emperor could use AI without issues but the ignorant and AI should never mix.
Always pay for insurance even if you plan never using it?
When you think of the Void Dragon, Simion, and the Emperor of Mankind. What this reminds me in his insight and foresight, reminds me of Paul and Leto Atredes from the Dune Saga. It begs the question just how much did Dune influence Warhammer 40k.
A lot.
a crap ton
Theory: How would Emperor would've reacted to Tau, would he destroy them or would he try ally with them, since they have highly advanced technology and they have no religions or gods
He was all about advancing humanity and eliminating any competitors.
@@inthefade but he wanted to avoid violence
The Emperor reminded me of Morty putting on the death crystal and letting out wails that people lead to forgive him for his crimes. He even tries to wait in the desert for decades with life support from the nanobots.
Thank you for reigniting my interest in 40k. Is there a possibility of creating a video about the Space Marine chapters with their Powers and weaknesses?
Best WesHammer video yet. You should Guest host on Adeptus Ridiculous, that would be cool to hear you talk with Bricky and DK.
This theory sounds like it's making the Emperor into a being of similar power upon the Warhammer Universe as the real world writers, effectively making him a writer/"narrator" of the franchise to explain a myriad of unexplained, unexplainable or outright incoherent details spread across the whole franchise. Still pretty EPIC !
What if the Emperor actually started Games Workshop and made all of this 40k stuff as like a way to hint that it is all true?
That last idea was haunting.... great video!
I absolutely love hearing other people's thoughts and opinions and what they believe.
I love individual thoughts! You have me as a subscriber and absolutely loved this video! Hope to hear more like this if you have anymore thoughts or your own thoughts like this in the video on any other parts of 40K Lore.
Keep on Truckin brothaa😎🤘🇨🇦
Again epic video and I love how you think, it has given me a new kinda outside "Outlook" and something to do my own kill time looking up other stuff as well 👽🤘😎
Been watching you since your days on TikTok and I have to say I love that you're on UA-cam with longer vids. I need more Weshammer in my life
Consider this: Slaanesh ate most of a species at once to be born, but the emperor has been eating nothing but psyker souls for like ten thousand years; I’ve always thought he was drip feeding godhood to himself
You made me put down what I was doing and listen closely with your reading at the end. That was a great choice of excerpt.
Do any of the books actually tell the tale from the emperors perspective (like we can hear his thoughts) or as one of the main charachters or are they all just stories we hear?
the fact you are putting a disclaimer on this is hilarious to me. Of course its meant to be all in good fun. As fanatical as 40k fans can be, and trust me I am a 40k fan boy, this is all just fiction. Love the videos dude. You and Majorkill are the best 40k UA-camrs in my opinion.
So what if the emperor was the mastermind behind the collapse of humanity during the gold/dark age of technology?
No because he wasn't born that time 🤣
@@argeltalthecustodiankiller6552 wtf he is really old
@@ΘΑΝΟΣΠΑΠΑΣΩΤΗΡΑΚΟΠΟΥΛΟΣ he old but he wasn't around dark age technology
@@argeltalthecustodiankiller6552 he lived LONG before the dark age of technologie. It is stated that during the dark age of technologie that it is when he started to work on to create his genetic engineering soldiers. The custodies were created at that time
@@argeltalthecustodiankiller6552 the emperor is *MUCH* older than that. He possibly was even born at the inception of the human species. It is said that he was even Jesus as he took on important roles to lead humanity in specific ways.
Thank you for uploading my lord
Now granted I’m pretty new to 40k but I have to be honest the Emperor always confused me. From what little I have read so far he is a pretty staunch atheist. But he definitely knows multiple gods exist, for someone who tends towards logic and reason (or claims to because he seems to lean away from that a lot also) how can he remain so vehemently atheist when he knows gods exist? It paints him in my mind simply as a contrarian more than anything at least when it comes to religion
The way I view it is someone on the level of a god, who doesn't think he is a god, wouldn't think other gods are gods...if that makes sense?
If they are his equals and he isn't a god, than neither are they.
Fabius bile believes they are nothing more than a cluster of warp energy that has gained sentience, I feel like the emperor might think something similar.
@@weshammer It definitely makes sense and seems pretty on brand for Big E to think that way. But it sort of just make it seem like he is in denial at that point
@@Mizuna752 he was not real Atheist. Only reason why he created Imperial Truth was to starve out Chaos Gods. Emperor beleived religions keep spawning entities in warp and of everyone stop worship it would weaken chaos gods. Same reason why he was kiling pshychcers. He was created to deal with Chaos God to begin with.
But he later realised that strategy didnt work. Cause people always need some absolute they can follow. Later seems he just decided become god himself.
My Theory is I think he can wipe Chaos Gods. Lorw wise if one Chaos God would defeat all others Warp would reset itself. And few milion years there wont be any demon untill next time.
So if Emperor would full ascend to godhood he would be able wipe all warp and make it safe for few milion years. Problem is if he would do it he would be wiped aswell along with Chaos Gods. And than humanity would decline cause all sspace traveling based on him.
That why he was draging situation on one hand he can deal with Chaos but it would cost of humanity. Cause after Empeoror disaper mostlikely Tau would take over weaken and decline Empire which would go into endless civil wars for remnants of Empire. He seems was just draging thing constantly trieng find solution where both Chaos would be defeated and humanity would prevail.
@@weshammerThese discussions are kinda pointless unless we define what it means to be a god. I think Slanesh’s birth pretty much confirms that Chaos Gods are basically just collections of warp entities that formed consciousness, but does that mean they aren’t actual gods? Like, what does it take to be a legitimate god? Is it just a question of power? Can someone even be considered an atheist if they acknowledge that there are immortal entities who are empowered by worship that exist beyond our physical universe? Basically everyone who knows of the Chaos Gods could agree that they match that description.
Can't wait for tell it all final novel from emperor perspective- where we learn that he was winging it the whole time and everything was just a happy coincidence that it all worked out
Established titles is kinda scammy. It's a gag gift and you don't own the land.
"Take everything said in this video with a grain of salt"
*just before an ad read for Established Titles*
Lol clever, very clever.
Just a heads-up about the sponsor: It's a scam. Buying land through them doesn't award any actual title or designation or ownership of any kind. There are some shady aspects surrounding the charity part of it, too. Legal Eagle does a good breakdown of it all.
Hey, I’m new to WH40K and I’m taking in so much lore and these videos help so much.
With that said, can it stand to reason that when the God Emperor ascended to god-hood that his existence kind of “stretched”? Like he used to not exist everywhere all the time all at once but when he became a god he can now influence himself becoming a god in the past…. Like…. Becoming a god THE ONE TIME made him a god THE WHOLE TIME?
I’ve made my own head hurt lmao
“I’ve recently become a lord” boy that didn’t age well.
Was it a scam
*Radio crackles* This is Inquisitor Daniel, I'm going to need more Bolter rounds for this much Herecy!
This is a scam, do not respond.
Man, that intro sponsorship aged HORRIBLY.
Bro, I love those videos you do. Me and my brother talk about them alot. I enjoy what you're doing. I hope to see more come out. Be safe brother.
For the god emperor!
I love your content! Anyone that says otherwise is a heretic.
I have a theory that Big E, The laughing God, and tzeentch all know so some extent that warhammer is a fictional universe.
I like the idea that Big E is becoming a god that eventually he will go fully into the warp and make the universe a little less awful (I have always hated the grim dark horror of 40k) I also think it fits for the emperor to have denied his divinity and that denial cost immeasurable suffering to humanity for 10k years that little scrap of horror should be used as a olive branch to the grim dark lovers that want everything to suck and be miserable
'Come with me and let's talk the emperors divinity' sounds like hersey to me 😶
Respect the grind but vet your sponsors, establish titles and better help are complete scams.
It wasn't known at the time. Check your hindsight bias.
really loved that last part w/ guilliman and caul inferior, keep up the good work!
2:55 ET has been outed as a scam it’s morally okay to skip the ad now
Also "Established Titles is a Scam" company is based out of Hong Kong. Plus you can't be a lord like that lol.
I imagine _"Welcome Back"_ by Mase would begin playing everywhere in the Imperium mysteriously when the Big Chair Skeleton resurrects with the Golden Throne empty and no one saw Him leave...
Established Titles is a joke and always has been. They aren't actually selling titles.
fucckk dude that intro credit and titel was clean as hell lmao i really liked it
Ah yes. That ad aged like fine milk.
One thing I think about Lorgar-Monarchia and how this all leads to the Horus Heresy - the most fervent faith is only manifested when there's an external, very much real threat to your faith's existence.
So the Horus Heresy was needed for the formation of the inquisition etc, to create the febrile atmosphere and utter devotion that elevates the God-Emperor from just a minor power like the Greater Good, to an actual warp entity that directly rivals the Ruinous Powers
Ad didn't age well
I love your channel my brother. I stumbled upon it and I instantly liked and subscribed. I’m a fan of yours for life brother! Keep up the good work! 👍🏾
established titles is a scam, and has been exposed hope the moneys worth it
What are you going on about? Lol
What I want to see most is the Emperor going all Dragon ball Z on the inevitable Chaos invasion that will if he returns
Just so you know Established titles is a scam.
Facts
not sure wtf you would pay for it anyway its literally just a 4 letter title
@@boxoid5230 For vanity.
Love how the last 3 books of the horus heresy are fleshing out so so so many things. Like the Dark King.. Yellow King etc.