First Levels in Speedrunning Suck
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- Опубліковано 18 жов 2020
- ► Become a Patron! - / tharixer
My video on speedrunning early games and why they suck.
Special thanks to all the streamers, for the footage to allow content like this to be possible.
Soundtrack: pastebin.com/hB3gkA5h
My Info:
► Twitch: / tharixer
► Twitter: / tharixer
► Discord: / discord
► UA-cam Alt: / @tharixersspeedarchive...
► Speedruns: www.speedrun.com/user/Ricky - Ігри
Sunny Flight ftw lol
That makes me hurt, or constantly hearing glimmers music
LOL
That part reminded me of how Plup acts when he starts getting frustrated with Puff in Melee. Pretty similar feeling at the core
i need that clip anyone got it? :O
Punyr I could listen to Glimmer all day long~~~Even after hearing it hundreds of times in runs...
When you're the best around not even sunny flight can keep you down
As a former Spyro speedrunner that Sunny Flight clip hit so close to home hahaha
It's like when you're in the high school orchestra and someone makes a mistake near the end, so the director tells you to play the whole song over again. For the fifth time that hour.
Based
"Not quite my tempo"
@Tom Ffrench I mean.... it kinda depends? Many (probably most?) forms of orchestral music has exactly zero room for improvisation, and for good reason! It's only more modern stuff like jazz blues, rock, and hip hop that value improv, which personally I think is insanely cool, but I can't imagine that working with a full orchestra lol. Imagine the chaos of 9 people improvising at once and the rest of them trying to back that haha
I mean, dick move by the director but a mistake is a mistake. And if it's not addressed it's going to become a habit to play it at that bar at that beat wrongly, but you wouldn't have the whole orchestra play one players mistake. That's just cruel and unusual.
11:00 if you need to use a spoon in your speedrun, shouldn't that be considered a tool-assisted run? Kappa
spoon-assisted speedrun
why wouldn't that be a tas? honest question, I had that same thought.
I remember the same quedtion popping up vack when SMW Ace started having Tape abn clips on controllers. It boiled down to not being tool in the sense that people want tool to only mean savestates, slowdown and the like. So if someone doesn't correct me, I believe my Answer is correct
@@DialektLp ah I see, thanks for letting me know!
@@ketrub Spoos
BACK TO HOMER one
wifiB
A failed Lakitu Skip is so fun to watch as a viewer, I can't imagine the joy it brings to speedrunners.
Reply
I honestly feel like you should be allowed to load a save file and start after the cutscene in sm64 and then start timer at like a minute or what ever. SOOO much less waisted time
agreed, piss piss piss piss piss piss piss piss piss piss
@@izzyhope58 THANK YOU
My favourite is that one "new" GTA San Andreas strat that requires you to perform several seemingly random, frame-perfect actions, which are easy to mess up, and where you have no way of knowing if you even got them right until you're right at the end. But if you do it right, you can skip straight to the final mission in just 15 minutes.
Sounds like rng manip
Dayo’s bit on sunny flight killed me 😂😂😂
Also I had no idea God of War had that wild of an early game 🤔🤔
It killed you did it? Immature, unfunny and terrible acting.
Bidoof's Wish has 12 minutes of unskippable cutscenes before going into any gameplay. I piss away an hour of my life just to do 5 attempts.
lol ive never seen a PMD speedrun before and given how much i love the game, that feels like a sin
even as a casual player that Special Episode stretched way tf too long. I can't help but worry how speedrunners feel of speedrunning the main game, that beginning is so atrociously bad >_
@@bramble553 idk If wish is nessary thogh. Pmd is for people who can stream for 10-20 hours for a run
@@R8Spike I actually meant for the actual start of the base game all the way up to when Dusknoir reaches the present time. As much as I love PMD2's story, the beginning of the game is so atrociously bogged down and slow.
Interesting that you brought up OoT's 4 minutes of cutscenes, and not Majora's Mask 20 minutes of first cycle, the ultimate hell
I play ffx. 5.5 hrs of cutscenes :)
Speaking of bad early games, we can't forget Majora's Mask 1st Cycle, or getting a good starter in any Pokémon game
1st Cycle in mm is bad even for casuals
And GF have made it worse in later games like a deliberate fuck you. In Gen 1-4, you can generally save, click the bag or table to pick your starter, then can either check stats in battle or from the main menu very quickly. In Gen 6-7 you've got several minutes of cutscenes to go through (6 also includes some bullshit of having to pick your own nickname in the same cutscene, but IIRC is at least shorter otherwise)
@@nlb137 why would one wanna speed run gen 7 anyway. The massive amount of cutscenes slowing down the game is annoying when you wanna go fast.
@@ultimaterecoil1136 It's not about speedrunning, it's about resetting for a decent starter for a semi-casual playthrough. Oh, you want a decent nature and 20+ IVs in couple critical stats? That'll take an hour of resetting.
In older games you can do it much faster because there isn't a godawful cutscene in the way.
@@nlb137 or you can just not use the starter. Heck it’s arguably optimal to abandon the starter midway in some games. Tepig is great early on in black and white but emboar becomes outclassed by darmanitan. Snivy is outclassed by every non maractus grass type and oshawot can’t really compete with some of the water types gotten after surf like jellicent.
When the runner begin to sarcastically simp for a video game level, you know the insanity has already set in.
I’m starting to think that Dayoman really likes sunny flight.
The start of Batman: Arkham Asylum is basically 5 unskippable minutes of walking, and on most speedruns, the next 10-15 minutes is the rest of the damn game 😅
Roguelike speedruns are on another level of reset hell, because you have to reset for good item RNG, which is 100% out of your control. It also has an impact on the entire run, because getting good items at the start saves time everywhere.
:(
The airstrip in mario sunshine is what hell would look like for me
The first level of Turok: Dinosaur Hunter has so many precise tricks and RNG situations that, for a top-level runner, more than half their runs die right then and there. "Level 1 Streams" are real.
The sunny flight thing felt like egoraptor was the runner 😂
can't forget crash twinsanity jungle bungle, the only level in the game!
This is one of the reasons why I like Factorio so much. You're just playing immediately and at a similar difficulty as the rest of the run
Damn, I didn't know God of War had such a horrid opening. That's just awful. Great video!
Never going back haha. Thanks hum
Nice short, simple, and funny video Ricky. It's really interesting to see you continue to experiment with video editing and try to figure out what direction you want to go in terms of a "theme/format" for your content. At first, I felt like some of the included clips were a bit too long but realized they were there to enforce a statement you made in the video. And as a long time viewer, yeah, early game sucks, but it's worth it to finally see the speedrunner overcome it and get the run they've been waiting for 🙂
yeah this pretty much sums up my thoughts aswell
The main reason is that Devs put so much effort or too much simplicity into the first few levels. Also item glitches seem to be the most persistent ones and that means you need to get to a certain point to abuse it; the first level is the furthest from that point.
Resetting something like Final Fantasy 9 has to be a kick in the nuts of unprecedented proportions
Most Kirby games, specifically the GBA/DS ones, have a 4 frame trick anywhere from 8 seconds to 1:30 into the run, some only saving 10 seconds while some save literal minutes. The trick has no visual cues or anything, just straight timing, and is incredibly frustrating at a top level.
1:35 "everytime i think of sunny flight i just wanna uuuuuunnngggghhhhhh!!!" Fucking has me diying sounds like a dk sound effect
Absolutely losing my shit and Dayo going off on Sunny Flight I'm wheezing
"let's go sunny fLIGHt"
It's like when you hunt for shiny legendary Pokemon. You have to hear the legendary's cry, wait for the screen to transition then actually see it and decide if you need to reset.
Casual players: The later levels are so hard
Speed runners: The early levels are so hard
It’s the best feeling in the world when you start getting consistent at the early game hell
So in Poképark 2, the any% category has a 20-minute segment at the beginning that is basically just dialogue and cutscenes with a small amount of gameplay sprinkled in. There are like 3 fights in that timespan and you can learn the strats for them pretty fast, and even failing them only loses a small amount of time usually. Then, within the next minute of the run, you have what boils down to a 1/4 chance for a rainbow pearl collectable to be in any given run. This item skips so much time that you basically need it for a decent chance of WR unless you get a different RNG-based backup that still wastes a decent amount of time all things considered.
I found your channel recently and I gotta say this content is amazing, glad I found a new channel to binge.
Subscribed in a heart beat.
Dude I died at the sunny flight part KEKW
I can't believe you made this topic actually incredibly interesting with a very well structured video.. good work!
Love the direction this channel is going keep up the great videos👍
I swear to god I can recite every cutscene in fallen order.
dayoman's monologue is such a schmood
Pain.
Pain
There's a bit of Sunny Flight inside all of us
this was an awesome watch man, thanks for the great content, keep it up!
Aranos 1 instaclip 😩
I'm not being paid, not improving and I'm not even having fun, what is my life?🙃
First level thoughts
I'm surprised you mentioned Ocarina of Time's intro when it seems infinitely more generous than Majora's Mask's intro combined with its first three-day cycle.
Not a speedrunner myself, but perhaps considering more runs practice runs rather than record attempts might help. Because you wouldn't reset, you'd develop a more intuitive feeling for what missing a jump at the beginning of your run does to your total time, and you'll be get your practice spread out over the game better. And if you're making a really good time, you can always decide to turn it into a record attempt after all midway through...
I'm glad my game of choice is based off score attack rather than time attack. Makes it a lot easier to keep runs going.
Yet another reason we need to make segmented runs a thing again
At least segmented opening areas. But I guess then stage 2 becomes the reset hellzone...
That was indeed relatable.
The "early game hell" also happens in very short games as well (in the range of 1-5 minutes).
I ran some skill-based games which are usually a collection of 15 levels, each one takes a few seconds at most.
Because of how optimal some of those games were, it came to a point that even a mistake of 0.1-0.3 second might cause a reset.
This makes you run the early levels over and over again, and when you finally make it to the later levels you are out of practice.
That's why I always enjoyed playing Mario Kart Wii and DS speed runs. No worrying about cutscenes and resetting is pretty quick.
Thankfully I’m a mid-level Celeste runner, so resetting my runs isn’t too common. I’ve only really reset runs if I died twice in the prologue, or lost enough time during the early levels to the point where it feels disgusting. The most recent one I can think of is getting a 1:40 in the second level, Forsaken City. With my best being a 1:20 and I usually get below 1:30, getting a 1:40 just feels bad. Even though I’m more likely to lose a minute to the final level anyway.
0:58 "till you start asking yourself.... is it really worth it?"
That sunny flights clip is me in the Triton Flats in borderlands presequel
I loved that dayoman clip haha
I love how you and Karl post on the same days. Can't wait to binge these two videos later today.
If I had a penny for every time liquidwifi popped up in a video from another speedrunner I watched, I'd have three pennies. Which isn't a lot, but it's really weird that it happened three whole times already.
Right in the nostalgia
Here come the Homer ones
Good video man.
I can only relate to a sm64 romhack where I need to pull off 4 firsties to skip a section.
Mad respect to runners that put up with actual cancer early games and first splits
1:01 Sunny Flight 😎
I actually have an Uncontested WR in a game where, thanks to a number of sequence breaks I've discovered, around half of the run is the first level. In the ~28 minute record, I didn't finish the first level until ~15 minutes in (and add another ~40 seconds for leaving the level).
The spoon trick... I always wondered if that was acceptable in speedruns...
I only ever had to use it in Metal Gear Solid PS1, during the torture scene, where you button mask through electricity.
My 11 yr old thumbs couldn’t handle that speed, so I had to grind a spoon against my controller, and would beat it every time.
9:17 That's where I gave up on God of War when I tried playing it. The arrows kept blowing up my crate so eventually after about 10 tries, I quit forever.
throughout this video I was constantly thinking about that clip where a runner groundpounds at the start of a Mario 64 run and immediately resets
the fact your pic is big fish theory and you do speedrun content makes me think your the kid from the end of vince staples 'FUN!' music video LOL u got a new sub from this vid mane, love this content
Some "unskippable cutscenes" have secrets to skipping them. For instance, on the PS2 version of GTA: Vice City, the opening Rockstar logo video is "unskippable" as pressing any of the face buttons, start button, or anything of the sort doesnt skip the cutscene. However, if you press L1,L2,R1,R2 at the same time, it DOES skip. Its all about trial and error finding methods around certain unskippable scenes.
with how often people have comebacks and pull good times with bad early splits - with how often they set PBs and new records - it makes me wonder if continuing when you have the mentality of 'oh this run is garbage' takes some stress out of it.
PTSD from the time where I speedran NFSC, the first 8 minutes of the game were the prologue, tutorial and escape, if you didn't got a specific truck at escape you could just reset because you would lose a shit ton of time.
And everytime you made past tutorial you still had the chance to throw away 8 minutes of your life because of RNG.
I'm surprised you didn't mention SA2 Dark Side story. Iron Gate is a lot of waiting around for lifts, Dry Lagoon is infamous for being insanely RNG dependent. So much so that a streamer I watch that runs the category modded the game and replaced the level theme with actual fucking circus music. And Sand Ocean is one of the most mechanically intense levels in the game.
City Escape in Sonic Adventure 2 is an terrible starting stage for speed running. Not only are you forced to nail and very precise skip that saves around 30 seconds, but after every reset you are forced to listen to “Escape From the City” melting your eardrums more and more each time.
I larned the DK skip as a kid by mistake but never able to do it when my friends were around. I never look into it but this video reminded me.
i love seeing the shar run. great bit
And here's me that runs jrpgs. Where the first fight after waiting scenes in my main game is 11 minutes in and over 10 hrs long. And hearing "1 min unskippable scenes makes me LUL . But that's not me laughing at people running but literally because its all perspective
Great video Ricky, you need to post more content on here.
My first thought went literally straight to the docks in Metal Gear Solid then I see my boy Plywood getting rep at 2:03 LUL
Awesome video Ricky!!
Just wanted to give Nier Automata a shout out with a 1:35 intro cutscene, boring ass shmup, crane skip, bridge skip, a very specific laser in silo, and an autoscroller boss. Such a chore to reset it hahaha.
Pretty interesting video! Very good work !
I swear Ricky, your videos have such a good flow to them. Everytime I watch one, I always find myself getting so immersed into them. I think it's the way you narrate these stories that makes the videos this good. You really manage to keep the viewer engaged until the very end, even in the longer videos. This is something that many other creators fail to do in my opinion, but damn, you always nail it!
Damn i need to do more no reset runs great video Ricky
Man I have a really crazy urge to play sunny flight.
This is why I believe that modded or pre-made save files (or even entire games) should be much more common in the speedrunning community. It's not fun for either the runners or the viewers.
Reminds me of Sea of Trees in my speedrun. but usually doing a few no resets to get your sanity in check is always good my advice: if you cannot stand resets try to make it a goal to try and finish one run of your speedgame once per day at least then try twice just to get hang of the late game. sometimes not resetting can help you when you are on that chance of getting a Record to have the practice and composer needed to finish and possibly snag the WR maybe. it also will help you keep your cool as well. and remember this: it can always be worse: i'm prepared for the worst possible case to the best of my ability.
Mario Galaxy's Gateway -> 5 Minute unskippable cutscene (if playing as mario) followed by catching 3 of the worst bunnies known to mankind. Then later in the level there's a 4 frame trick to skip a 10 second cutscene. No wonder 75%+ of runs die there...
I think the thing about not resetting every time when you are behind first level ist really usefull to know.
Would the spoon be considered a performance enhancing tool 😂
Ocarina of Time: Child 1 Stream
Majora's Mask: Cycle 1 Mood
godddd that Mirror's Edge kickglitch chain is so damn hard man
Wow Karl Jobst and Ricky vid on the same day, nice!
And just to give onother example for "fun" start in Jazz Jackrabbit 2 there is one RNG heavy bossfight on the second level of the 24 levels. You can manipulate RNG but you have to enter the boss area on a specific frame which is pretty difficult for newer players. :)
Heeey that's Jak X soundtrack at 5:42. Awesome
Good video man, waiting on what you'll do next.
Gigantic Honorable mention to Majora's Mask's first cycle. Brutal.
Really good examples and personal experiences. Good video
Thanks!!
I don't speedrun but I play shoot 'em ups and can relate to speedrunners on so many levels. The first stage is the worst. You restart so many times and have to play through this so many times. While they generally give the least score, they are often also the easiest. Since they are easy, you are hard-pressed to score this stage optimally. I mean, it's the first stage; if you fail you might as well restart again... and again... and again. Still I think speedrunners have it harder since time spent at the start has the same value as time spent at the end (eg 1 second). Shmups, you can mess up the first stage and miss maybe 10% of high score.
a game that i run called chulip has a 15 minute intro segment with no skippable textboxes, no music, and no glitches. while it is 100% consistent with no luck at all, that only makes it more boring. then, there's another 15 minute segment called prologue 2 right afterwards that DOES have rng, which if you get bad rng for it you have to reset the run entirely. the rest of the game is fun tho lol
i used to speed run sr4 and that start level is obnoxious unskipable dialogue, forced slow movement, qte's, and invisible borders that cause time loss
Average person: (‘speeds’ through first level in 10 minutes)
Speedrunners: (spend several days trying to be 0.01 seconds quicker on the first level.
Yeah...Zelda 2 in a nutshell. The whole run is kind of set upon your success in that first palace where you are holding onto minimum life and magic levels to boost your attack levels.
I feel this one. I speedrun Tony Hawks American Wasteland. On Sick it's an hour and a half long. There's really hard tricks and tough money management throughout the whole game (even missions that will just randomly fail at the end costing 40+ seconds). But you bet your ass I'll reset the first 15 minutes of tutorials if I mess up one of them
I wish I would have known this in my first year of speedrun. I spent so much time trying to optimize movement, learning advanced techniques and cleaning up. If i messed up on the tiniest tech i would reset. I would reset so much that i didnt realize i was only playing the first few mins of the stage.
I got burnt out and now i don't play the game anymore :(
screw unskippable cutscenes
great video ricky!
thanks chloe!
Sunny Flight is an absolute masterpiece.
It sucks when you've practiced a level for hours, doing pretty well... Then when you do runs you just can't do it. I so wanna get good at speedrunning, but I get frustrated too quickly.
BTW, I play Super Mario 64.
6:23 thas still so goated bruh OMGGGGGGGGGG
In SSBB Subspace Emissary, the first level Midair Stadium is practically 95% rng having to wait for mario to run into Kirby's mouth to SD with, one of the few large fights in the game which is awful, and petey who's attacks are random and can really suck at times after getting a good large fight from before. Losing more than 5 seconds versus practically a 1/1000 attempt gold is very hard to decide to continue on. This has haunted me for years now.