Love Recap |
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- Опубліковано 27 бер 2024
- This video is a recap of the two-part series on the band Love. Matt discusses quality compilations on the band and fields a comment by former band member, John Echols, who questions the facts offered in this series.
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Personal recollection are often distorted through time. Your attention to detail has always been impeccable and thorough while keeping it interesting. Great job Matt 👏
Thanks Johny!
Great Recap! John Echols responded very harshly. He should be happy you did a 2 part story on the band. You handled your self well Matt! Keep up the good work you do!
Thank you, Matt. Echols response was over emotional and he then made a blanket statement that was dismissive of the whole series. I do get things wrong from time to time, but I get things right as well and as you alluded to, some of these band members should be glad their band is being talked about at all.
I’ve been a Love fan since ‘85, everything I’ve ever read indicated that Arthur had control of the band, including finances. JE’s response was unnecessarily harsh. If what he said is true, which I still doubt, he could have certainly been nicer about it. I’ve been watching your shows for years now, and the quality is top shelf., it’s one of the best, without question! Thank you, Matt!
@@Mandrake591 I appreciate that. The fact that Echols didn't even acknowledge an invitation to be interviewed to offer more information is all I need to know.
Excellent recap. If we’ve learned anything, it’s that the band members’ memories are far from reliable for accuracy and are usually mixed with emotional baggage.
I shook Arthur's hand and we had some small talk after a gig and he came over as a soft spoken kind hearted man with big hands...seen him twice and I love Love
Thanks for sharing that - much appreciated.
the definitive love book endorsed by Echols is ; My Little Red Book: LOVE Day by Day 1945-1971 by Bruno Ceriotti, endorsed with these (and more) quotes: Johnny Echols: “Bruno is a very good researcher, he found stuff I’d long forgotten. It’s a fun book.”
Michael Stuart-Ware: “Bruno has written a great book that all LOVE fans everywhere will enjoy. It’s all in there.”
The 33 1/3 book on Forever Changes is pretty awesome too
You've taken that response very well, Matt. Very interesting to see differing points of view be the main subject of this recap. Can't wait to watch the next 'history of'!
Thank you - plenty to come!
Wow that was actually the best Love video you've done and most informative.
I appreciate that.
Talk to any member of any band and there’s a different take on what went on. Keep up the good work Matt! I always enjoy your research!
Let's not forget about "Edsel" Records. They were a cottage industry from England that began reissuing many titles that were out of print in the 1980's. I obtained "Copperhead", the band that John Cipollina joined right after he left QMS. I also purchased "Gilded Palace of Sin", several Spirit LP's, Canned Heat and Paul Butterfield Blues Band LPs which became available that hadn't been for years.
Matt, While I would not call this a fun filled episode, I did find it edifying. As the saying goes: the past is a foreign country. And despite Ray Davies claim that memories will always remain, memories have a tendency to morph over time. It's been a long, long time since I have seen it, but Kurosawa's "Rashomon" recalls one incident as told from three different viewpoints, and it made me realize that all truths seem to be filtered through the lens of each observer. I have read and seen interviews with Echols, and I both enjoyed them and learned a lot. So I was surprised how emotional his response was. I have viewed virtually all of your Pop Goes the 60s posts, an d they have all struck as the most even-handed postings on UA-cam. "illegitimi non carborundum. And, in this case, that includes Echols. As you said, it's all about the music, and Love's first three (okay, two and a half) albums continue to delight me. I am sure that I would appreciate the following albums much more if those albums were not judged by what preceded them.
Excellent work! I loved the series. I don't remember if you mentioned "Beatles '66: The Revolutionary Year" by Steve Turner, but I am halfway through it and it has vaulted into my top three books on the Beatles. At least until when and if Lewisohn catches up. I still think that Revolver is the best Beatles album, and this book puts in context with its time. And George Harrison has not sounded grumpy at all!
Hey Wylie! I had offered John Echols the opportunity to appear as a guest on my channel to discuss these points but the offer was not acknowledged. These comments happened a couple of weeks ago so I let it sit for awhile, knowing I would do a recap and address these points with or without him. Obviously, the nuances of presenting the research on these bands can be tricky, but the music is always the focus and from most fan's point of view, these details are inconsequential. It turned out to be a video on my research methods and the pitfalls of dealing with conflicting information form primary sources. Ray Davies WAS wrong! 🙂
It's interesting you bring up Rashomon here. Because that's quite a good point about perception. I started thinking about something else, 2004 Redsox vs Yankees, if you know it? Down 3-0 in games, Boston makes the epic comeback. But who is responsible most in that game 4? The viewer sees the whole thing play out and still its hard to say which piece is most applicable. The HomeRun, the Steal, The basehit? The Moment itself making it grand? Now imagine being a player in the field.
@@blurredlenzpictures3251 Yes the 'Rashomon Principal' is something I run into all the time in my work - especially with the Beatles, where we have loads of quotes and interviews to sift through.
It's pretty easy I'd say to see how the albums that followed Forever Changes might not've measured up for listeners already familiar with that masterwork. I came to Love through one of those later albums and was quite struck by Forever Changes when I finally did hear it--not what I expected! No denying its greatness though. Still love the later stuff as well. I just consider it a different band, which of course it was.
@@jonvought700My comment was not meant to be negative, but one of the few good things about being ancient is hearing music from the sixties in chronological order. (And history is my avocation - everything in its place - while I worked in a small independent record store from '72 until '09.)It is almost inevitable that whichever record/version we hear first becomes the 'original template by which everything else is judged.Working in a record store, I sold a lot of vinyl, cassettes, and CDs which I did not care for. But as long as the listener is happy, I won't judge. Particularly as my own guilty pleasures can be hard to defend. The later Love albums were/are better than most of the other stuff that came out.
Thanks for the recap of a very good, but somewhat obscure band. In interviews, Johnny Echols seems like a pretty nice guy, surprised to see him come across so strident.
I've always liked him and I used lots of info he offered in interviews so it was disappointing for him to make sweeping statements that suggest "I hadn't done my homework" or offered an overly negative view of Arthur Lee.
That was a great follow-up Matt. Very interesting and well responded to, with class, by yourself. … And YES, maybe a history of Rhino Records overall would be very welcome and something I would look forward to. :- )
Thanks Mr. J!
Somehow I missed this group! I love Forever Changes. Thank you, Matt!
I have lots of Rhino box sets too, love their anthologies. The CD compilation I have of Love is by Raven Records from Australia called "Love Comes in Colours". It's 24 tracks the last of which is an interview with Arthur Lee.
After watching your video series on the group I made a CD-R to complement those 23 songs, it's all good stuff. Thanks for all you do in your research and presentations.
Thank you, more to come!
I've lost count of how many times I've listened to the album Forever Changes to date. It's already part of my life. Thanks, Matt
On March 5th I messenger Johnny Echos and asked him if he'd seen your page on Love ~ In no time to even watch it he sent me an Angree face meme ~ So now I'm guessing he's seen it ~ I thought it was really informative but I guess it's hard to please everyone ~ Keep up the good work ~ I really enjoy your post ~
Thank you. UA-cam showed Echols as a subscriber of mine - or at least, he was. His accusation of "not doing my homework to get it right" and his refusal to acknowledge my invitation to be interviewed on my channel were both disappointing. But weighing evidence from all sides is desirable and necessary. Echols knows exactly where my information came from and his comments were an attempt to discredit the entirety of my work on the subject - which included quotes and lots of information from Echols himself! I'm glad that this video offered a view of the process of "trying to get it right." Thanks for the support, RockSinger!
I'm not sure why that guy needed to be quite so hostile; maybe just a bad day - you never know do you? I've always found that being constructive in pointing out errors or challenging things leads to something more productive. To be frank any person can be abusive, that really takes little bandwidth. Maybe there was none left for being diplomatic. Anyway, I'm happy that you're on here and providing things of interest.
Thanks George. I can imagine all the wrong information band members must endure, but I was put off by his overall assessment of the series. It's not like I did the history of the band an injustice. But like you say, diplomatic bandwidth may be depleted.
"Love" your work - keep up the great stuff!!!
Thanks, Chris.
I honestly wonder if this is a case like in Almost Famous. "Just make us look cool." Musicians can change when they are not treated exclusively that way. Many musicians feel that if anyone focuses on anything else but their genius talent, or the possibility of being less than business savvy they consider it disrespectful.
It amazes me how many bands have covered Alone Again Or, even UFO. What a cool song.
Great recap on a terrific series. Echols was a little harsh there and kind of condescending also. I find it interesting that The Doors, closely linked to Love, split everything equally. So there was never any problem about money. This was at the suggestion of Morrison himself, who was writing most of the material at that time. Jim had his issues of course, mostly to do with substance abuse, but I don't sense that he was as hard to deal with as Arthur Lee. He sounds like a guy always with his defenses up and ready to do battle. I would like to hear more about how he treated MacLean, which appears to have been mostly with disdain and disrespect.
Thanks for the feedback. From my research, Arthur was at least somewhat threatened by Bryan's abilities. It seems like if you are going be in a band with Lee, you have to take the bad with the good.
My understanding is that while Morrison wrote most of the lyrics, the music generally was written by other band members, usually Krieger and Manzarak
@@danielbaker7608 Morrison apparently came up with the vocal melodies as well as the lyrics for some of his songs, at least some of the earlier material on the first two albums. I'm not sure it he continued to do this at times throughout their career. Krieger wrote both the music and lyrics (sometimes with an assist from Morrison) on a number of their hits (i.e., most of the Light My Fire lyrics and all of the music, Love Her Madly, Love Me Two Times, etc.). While all band members contributed greatly to the arrangements, the primary songwriting partnership was Krieger-Morrison.
@@christopher9152 Yes, Jim and Robby had a pretty amazing musical connection. Robby talks about that in his recent book. He says he never found another writing partner like Morrison.
You should do an interview with Johnny Echols. It would be interesting.
I offered to interview him to give his views but he did not acknowledge the offer.
Maybe he evntually will talk with you . I met him in Minneapolis when they opened for the Zombies (2006?)he seemed like a nice guy and I was surprised at how many people knew who he was as he got quite a big applause. Keep up the good work it's very enjoyable. ..Maybe in the future a story on the group Spirit.@@popgoesthe60s52
Impressive research. This is why I keep coming back.
Plenty to come! Thanks for the support.
It's pretty sad that Johnny was complaining instead of thanking you for such a wonderful tribute. I got into LOVE through an article in an old issue of CREEM MAGAZINE. The album covers alone and the fact they were on Elektra made me go out and seach for their used records in the early 80s.
Way before the internet, CREEM was a godsend.
I can tell that you do alot of research on these groups, they are the best i have seen on the internet. You are always going to have somebody who doesn't agree, I wouldn't take it personally even if it is John Echols. More group biographies please Matt, we love you!
I expect to have a fair amount of push back like Echols did but like I told him I do these band histories in good faith and my research is pretty solid, though I still make mistakes. Thanks for the kind compliment, David!
Great Job and Research
Einarson also wrote a great book on Gene Clark.
All this he said, this and that is starting to sound like Rashomon. Either way, as a long time fan of Love your in depth take on their musical career filled the gaps and even provided clarity in contrast to the information sourced from liner notes and hearsays. I'm curious if you ever want to cover Syd Barrett since there's a lot of romanticizing in regards to his madness that need to be dispelled during his tenure with Pink Floyd and solo work. Or Moby Grape especially that first record what a record that is!
Moby Grape for sure. Pink Floyd would be tougher for me personally since I'm only so-so on understanding their history, though I have researched the romanticizing of Syd Barrett and found it like so many other artists who are canonized.
@@popgoesthe60s52 All the "madcap myths" and romanticizing aside, Barrett was a unique songwriter and creative guitar stylist whose slim body of work stands up quite well today, in my opinion. He was also a tremendous influence on David Bowie, Marc Bolin, Julian Cope, Robyn Hitchcock, and several other British artists over the decades.
First, thank so much for doing this deep dive on Arthur Lee and Love. That’s how I discovered this music! And it’s not just history. The live performances of Arthur Lee, touring Forever Changes in the last years of his life, are actually better than the original performance on vinyl.
I can see why the band member took your depiction of Arthur as an affront, because myself, not knowing anything about the subject at all, also got a negative first impression of the guy. In this regard, this recap is very helpful.
I have since become a huge fan of Arthur Lee, on many levels. The voice, the words, his insistence of performing his work with an orchestra, not only in the studio, but live. Thanks to your channel!
It may be interesting to go deeper on his bio. That he was put in prison for years, for rejecting a plea deal that would have cost him only a few months (insisting on a trial because he assumed he would be proven innocent), is a big part of his story.
Especially tragic, considering his life was cut short by illness after he finally got out, and put that last ensemble of Love together. This guy was really one of the greats. And to think, I just discover him in 2024.
Yes, several viewers mentioned that they are now just discovering Love, which is the goal of this channel - to promote some of the more obscure bands and artists.
Everything to with LOVE and Arthur Lee and band always seemed convoluted and confusing to me…they made some great music though. Great job on your LOVE series.
Hey Matt, great recap. I think videos like these show that you are always aiming to present the most accurate information available about the bands we all love. I hope I speak for most of us that when we tune into your channel we will always be presented with content that is informative and concise and entertaining all at once. Keep up the great work!
Thank you, Tom - I appreciate that.
Bravo, Matt. Seems Echols was, unfortunately, emotionally hijacked by your respectful series, which introduced me to a band of which I was unaware. Love these deep dives.
Great band! It's always great to hear people are still discovering them. These emotional responses are unfortunate because the remove themselves from the discussion they were literally asked to take part in! More to come.
Hi Matt
Nice Conclusion to the LOVE Videos.
I did see an interview with Jac Holzman regarding a $5,000 Payout he gave to Arthur regarding the Band & he promptly went out a bought a New Car & the approximately $500 that was left was distributed to the the rest of the Band.
Jac gave some strong indications that Monies to be Funneled through Arthur on Behalf of the Band.
Whatever Johnny Echols stated was Not Entirely True.
Just adding my 2 Cents Worth.
Continue making Great Videos.
Take Care.
Thank you, Richard. Yes, these stories are not cut and dry we often don't get the absolute truth. But we can get close. Thanks again.
Much appreciated Matt! You are top tier!!
Thanks Rick!
Rhino was great in the 80s, I remember getting More of the Monkees and Headquarters on Rhino. Their reissues of 60s stuff was so cool because they were real deal 60s records and not crap repackaged compilations.
Matt, you have broken the 4th wall and become part of the actual Pop Goes the 60s timeline. 😎
Thank you, David!
Right on, Matt
Matt. I understand your need to set the record straight, but ultimately if there are five people in a room - there will end up being five different opinions and memories.
Don't sweat it. Great job is always. Don't stop.
Mea culpa filed, but unnecessary. ; )
I appreciate that Jim! Thank you.
Matt, I hope you'll profile The Remains soon, as their piano player Bill Briggs just passed away, and bassist Vern Miller has his own medical issues right now.
Yeah, a fantastic band indeed! Good call
Love the Remains. "When I Want to Know" is pure '60s gold.
Hi Matt, I have watched many of your video bios, and found that you do a great job. Always trying to give a balanced view of bands and their members. Keep up the good work! Andrew from Oz.
Thanks Andrew!
Superb job, as always Matt! I always enjoy your well-rounded, informative, fun and entertaining videos! Thanks.
Thank you, Henry.
Respect, Matt. You do a great job researching the Byzantine machinations! ... and yeah, it's the music in the end.
Thank you Bruce, much appreciated!
Great series, Matt: thanks much for your efforts. Would look forward to that Rhino video. John's books are essential reading.
I’m just being honest, here. I’d never even heard of Love until I’d decided to sample some lesser known 60s psychedelic rock a few years ago via a playlist I heard on the now defunct Google Play. It was awesome. “Alone Again, Or…”. I loved it. And all that time before I thought The Damned’s version was the original. I’ve always been known as a rock connoisseur and historian among my friends. I had a lot more to learn, turns out. Still, it strikes me as a bit of a slap when the guitarist from one of the more obscure bands of that era would lash out following a TWO PART series by one of the best channels on UA-cam of its kind.
That’s kind of you to say. It was disappointing that he focused on one thing which seemed to ruin the whole series for him. Maybe it’s time he wrote his own book.
@@popgoesthe60s52 I know, right? But you were really kind to him considering it was backed up with documentation. And there seem to be some other issues seeing that his vitriol was painfully disproportionate. Very nicely handled by you. As always a top-tier show.
Great job of reassessment, Matt. I covered the entertainment industry as a journalist for decades and am well aware of the many pitfalls in the business of show. But as you say, it's the show--the music--that's most important in this case. And Arthur Lee, while he seemed to be troubled, was an artistic genius--a term I don't use freely or lightly. I'm grateful for his work, as I'm sure you are. Apart from largely disregarding most of Arthur's work after the first three Love albums--which you rectified a bit in the recap--I thought your initial Love video was well balanced, and the only thing you could do to fend off some criticisms would be to laboriously cite all of your sources, though that would bog down a video presentation. Anyway, thanks again for your diligence and for bringing Love to people's attention.
Hey Bruce, I appreciate the comments. You are correct, bogging down the story with too much trivia or bibliographies are reasons I am forever condensing my work in order for the story to flow, knowing I can always add to the story with addendums on my website, or in this case, with a recap video.
Btw, Matt, on an unrelated note, are you familiar with '90s Irish band An Emotional Fish? They were seriously good. Not expecting a video on them. Just offering a heads-up. Try Celebrate, Time Is On the Wall or Superman. Awesome songs.@@popgoesthe60s52
Matt: thanks for following up with these details. Thanks also for all your efforts with these cool old bands. I've always been a Love fan and it's so cool to learn more about it. Cheers, Ross
Thank you, Ross!
Echols could have been more polite, IMO. I bought the MOFI 45 RPM pressing of Forever Changes on 180g High Definition vinyl. Since its played at 45 RPM, its a double album, which breaks up the continuity of listening to the record but its recorded from the original master tapes and the quality of sound is astounding. Good wrap up Matt!
Thanks Gene!
I cannot wait for your next featured band ! Your response was very civilized. Congrats.
Thanks for sharing Echol's perspective. He was a key part of the band's sound, and as you noted, he no doubt enjoyed the closest relationship with Lee. This means to me that he knew Lee the best, but also maybe (?) he has the strongest incentive to think and speak positively of him, regardless of the man's faults. And Lee clearly had a reputation of being hard to get along with.
Elektra had a 'Love Revisited' vinyl comp from 1970 that was pretty good. Love also had a complete side of 'Electrock: The Sixties' vinyl box set (1984), celebrating the stewardship of Jac Holzman.
Da Capo, Forever Changes and Love Four Sail more than stand up to the test of time imho and continue to be inspirational to many. Echols is right to say that Lee was a truly gifted wordsmith and composer - uniquely original on those albums. If it is true that Arthur was on the bi-polar scale then that no doubt explains some of his characteristics. Lets not taint his reputation decades on from when he created these masterpieces.
Two more very good Love compilations are Elektra's Love Revisited which can be found for pretty reasonable prices on Discogs and Rhino's two CD anthology Love Story.
It appears that maybe John should take an Anger management class.
No need to react in that manner. Love your shows!
I had just made some time to watch your Revolution #9 video, which I've been looking forward to, and found this new one, (no notification as usual lately. Weird, because I get them for channels that I don't watch every episode). Rock and popular music history will always be full of stories and opinions, some verifiable and some not. Besides, in years-long careers members go through many moods and treat various people differently. You can't please everyone. I can tell you put a lot of research into your presentations by how thorough they are and the hard facts (pesk chart numbers, release dates, band members, etc. are always correct. Keep them coming.
Plenty to come- thanks John!
John Einarson is a long time online friend of mine. I have a number of his books, among the best written rock bios out there.
Yes, I really appreciate his work and I have just discovered his podcasts!
Knock Knock. Who’s there? John Echols. Who that? John Echols. Who that?!?! I haven’t watched Matt’s Pop Goes the Sixties documentary yet!!! 🤭
Hi Matt, love your work . I did see Love in the Greyhound pub in Croydon, England post Forever Changes. One thing that stood out was that Arthur was holding a bottle of beer on stage and said that if we were all in the bottle this is what he would do. He then turned the bottle upside down and 😂emptied it over the stage. Such a charming man. Great group but led by a strange guy.
Thanks, Bobbie! Yeah Arthur sure seemed like a character!
What a fantastic video have a wonderful happy Easter long weekend Matt ❤❤❤❤❤❤😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
Thank you - Happy Easter to you too!
I was in 6 different rock bands over a span of three decades. If there were 5 members in a group you'd get 5 different recollections of events and the people involved. It's just how things are. Don't let one guy's opinion stop you from presenting the best showcase possible in the time allotted. You do excellent work. Keep it up, bro.
I appreciate that. Because of the nature of telling history from a band member and the biases that come with it, I refrain from speaking to band members prior to doing my band history. That allows me to approach it as evenly as I can. I have gotten things wrong in the past but I will correct the record when needed, like I did here. Thanks for the support!
The one thing that draws me to your videos, Matt, is confidence in your research. Perhaps Mr. Marshall is not aware of what has been written about Arthur Lee in books about Love. Perhaps he is too aware of what was written. He may prefer smaller battles. I do think you proved you do your research Matt. Well done!
Thanks Jacky, I appreciate that. I did invite him on the channel to offer more detail but he didn't acknowledge the invite. Oh well.
Andmoreagain! The 2-CD set is great. I have the Einarson book - totally recommended. Time for another look and more fiery JE response in sour grapes part 2! 😀
Though not a fan of Love I really enjoyed your retrospective as it made me go down the rabbit hole of the Laurel Canyon. You could probably do ten episodes on the neighbourhood.
Check out the Dave McGowan book
Yes, that is something I may do. Laurel Canyon was such an interesting place to be back then.
Unfortunately, through the passage of time band members from notable groups change or re- write history depending on the individual POV. John Lennon added and subtracted many 'truths' after the Beatles. One historian even said since John's death, Paul McCartney rewrites history in his own image. Anyway, great work as always Matt! 😊✌🏾
Sounds like eccles has some confession by projection......
Your videos are for the most part on point.
Yeah, I really have no horse in the race other than to offer the most balanced telling of their history as possible. This is what my viewers expect from me so that's what I will continue to do regardless of the responses of the musicians involved.
just as if there is a vehicle accident in the middle of an intersection, with a witness on each corner, who sees the incident will give you their interpretation on what they saw, will differ from each other.
Have you ever considered writing a book for the On Track series? An Arthur Lee/Love book is sorely missing from the series so far
Matt I always appreciate the interesting and meticulously crafted band histories you do , and the Love Story is no exception. Forever Changes rates in my top five albums of the sixties. I heard John Echols interview with Rick Rubin and thought it was fascinating. That's why it's regrettable he seems to be angry with you , because I would have like'd to see you interview him. These different points of view can produce a " Rashomon effect".
Yes, I run into the Rashomon effect all the time when it comes to the Beatles. I did offer Echols an opportunity to be interviewed on my channel to address his points but the offer was not acknowledged. Thanks for commenting.
I see *Brian Needle Meets Vinyl* is back doing vids after 8 months off. He's very Beatles-savvy, his 20-min vids worth watching, & inviting, too. Brian's the channel who first recommended Pop Goes The 60s to me about 3 years back.
How nice of Brian to mention me. I thought I hadn't seen him around. Thanks 4-D!
At the end Matt it all comes down to the music, You'll always hear All these stories about Lennon, Elvis, James Brown and Jim Morrison... -But what matters is their creative and artististic musical work they left behind. I still dont understand what Mr Echols is all upset about??? As far as Im concerned your videos Matt are done respectfully with great detail and in good taste, I have Never had the impression that your videos are misleading or done with malevolence. That is one of the reasons why I love Pop Goes The 60's and why Im a big fan of your work 👍✌️
For whatever reason, the money issue in the band triggered him and he decided to take it out on me, knowing full well about the information in the 2 books I cited. I'll keep producing in the same way I've been doing, and this outburst wasn't as surprising as it was disappointing.
A fine recap, Matt. Seems to me Mr. Echols overreacted somewhat. I've always found your excellent videos accurately researched and of the highest quality, work you should be duly proud of. By the way, I read somewhere that the Best of Love lp from 1980 was the first product ever released by Rhino records, which is kinda cool.
Thank you, Rick - I appreciate the support. I am proud of the work I'm doing on this channel and I suppose some over emotional reactions are to be expected. I do have one Rhino release - a picture disc of the Turtles that was 1978, but I think the Love Best of may be the next one? I will have to look into that.
If I were cussed out by one of those sixties heroes like that, I’d be overjoyed that I at least got their attention. Love the channel as always.
Thanks Scott! I appreciate it.
I’m curious why you didn’t mention Jim Hobson? He was on that Blue Thumb double album. I worked with him (he was the arranger) on an album in 1976 and the only thing I knew him for was his work with Love.
He only played on one track (as did Paul Martin) and I often skip over some of the fringe players who I don't have much info on.
great wrap up video. i still have a few Rhino compilation albums from the 80's. they used to be such a great reissue label. Would you ever consider a Blue Cheer history?
Yes I plan on a Blur Cheer history, but I am still collecting research, so it won’t be out too soon.
Has there ever been a happy band member in YT comments? You did great, especially in your response here. Most hosts would get defensive, and then it devolves.
I appreciate the comment!
Well, you set the scene.
The business issues, song publishing, and the conflicting views of individual members, as well as substance abuse were just some of the myriad reasons the original Love disbanded after Forever Changes. This Love story ending has happened with so many other great bands.
You're right, just about every band crashes and burns in spectacular fashion, but not before creating some great music. 🙂
Thanks, Matt. That was balanced. My impression of Arthur Lee is generally a not-very-nice dude.
Many thanks again for your excellent research on Love, Matt🎉 As in almost every group biography there will be differences of opinions about what really went on. Sometimes diverse facts will be proclaimed that will clash violently with interviews by another member.😅
Even a group as exceptionally well researched as the Beatles with straight companions like George Martin, journalist/friend Hunter Davies almost from the beginning still poses problems on certain issues about what really happened and why on a specific day etc...
Concerning Johnny Echols: is there an album that you may recommend? Songs that he wrote?
Yes, when doing these histories, finding absolute truth across the entire board is futile. Getting close by being fair and balanced is my goal. Echols became a session player and did some work with Miles Davis but I don't think he released any solo material.
@@popgoesthe60s52 on what Miles Album may be found any contributions by Johnny Echols???
Kind regards
@@popgoesthe60s52 the reason I am asking about an Johnny Echols material/Songs is that on the original double album "Forever changes" Echols was supposed to have a whole side for his own compositions as we'll as Bryan McLean Whatever happened to these Songs???
@@dreammachine2013 Those were never recorded. I don't have much info on these tracks, like the number of tracks he had written, but so far as I know none were ever recorded. Bryan MacLean certainly had enough songs for a single side and demos were recorded but I don't know if Echols recorded demos. It would be cool to hear them if he had.
@@dreammachine2013 That's a good question. I did a quick scan of the musicians on every Mile album from Bitches Brew to 1992's Do Bop and didn't see his name in the credits. Maybe he just jammed with him, I don't know for sure. But obviously, Davis is an impressive name to have on the resume!
Great recap, Matt. I love the band, but after Blue Thumb, the stuff is pretty dire. I have the "Black Beauty" Cd, which is mediocre. The "Love Lost" sessions for Columbia are pretty bad too.
Watched both of your Love videos, and this one as well. Didn't comment, because I don't know much about the group. Just have one compilation CD (Most of the songs on it I think are from their first album). Decided to check them out years ago, because everyone seemed to have a high opinion of them. Personally, think they are a bit overrated. Have you done anything on the group the Rising Sons (Which had Ry Cooder in it)? Also, maybe you know about this, but was able to find some more photos taken at Eric Clapton and Pattie Boyd's 1979 wedding ceremony, which showed Paul and George together on a makeshift stage. Have you seen these photos?
I have seen a couple of photos on facebook I believe and didn't know what they were from but the wedding makes sense. I do have the Rising Sons on my very long list. They are a great example of the diverse music in LA in the mid 60s.
@@popgoesthe60s52One thing in your Love videos which I enjoyed hearing was when you told about Arthur getting P.O.d at Jim Morrison, who went swimming in Arthur's swimming pool naked, LOL! Maybe he was mad because of what usually happens when people go swimming, let's call it "Kidney release." Somebody should put a book together of instances of Rock musicians eccentric behaviors. I'm sure Morrison would be in that. Would be nice if a recording of the performance at the Clapton wedding would surface. Denny Laine, who was also at the wedding, had said the quality of what was performed was terrible (but he was a fellow musician) and it was a good thing it wasn't taped. Seems like another good topic for you and John Heaton to discuss.
Please do an Ultimate Spinach video and cover the Skunk Baxter / Steely connection.
Maybe a 10 Years After.
I have such a long list and I hope to cover them at some point. I'm a big Skunk fan - especially his work with Steely Dan.
Our memories are fluid. How many times have you been able to vividly remember something from your past that later turned out to be completely wrong? The truth about Arthur Lee is probably somewhere in the middle, just as you said. You and Johnny Echols definitely pushed each other’s buttons this time. But please don’t let it stop you from telling the truth as you find it, even if it’s uncomfortable. And of course, musicians are notoriously prickly about their legacy
I expect to get this kind of reaction from band members, which is normal. But it's too bad he wouldn't take me up on my offer to appear on my channel to discuss some of these points. I won't change the way I do these videos because they are done in good faith and plenty of effort goes into giving a straight account of events. I appreciate the comment, Rick.
@@popgoesthe60s52 I know it can be difficult because of other people's egos. And as I said, our memories are so fluid and change so much during our lifetimes that it's hard to decide exactly who's right and who's wrong. I'm sure he's a perfectly reasonable person otherwise, but like I said, performers can be prickly when it comes to their legacy. Just keep doing what you do, it's appreciated by music fans...
You mentioned at the end that you have a few other band histories in the works. If you haven't already done these groups I'd love to see ones on The Kinks, Jefferson Airplane and Hendrix.
I've got a 3-parter on the Airplane: ua-cam.com/video/tzSQctOHHnc/v-deo.html
The others are on my very long list!
Thanks Matt.
Matt,
You gave Echols his say, which was fair of you. Echols was there and those 2 writers were not. The truth is rarely pure and never simple. You did the best work you could do with the info you had. And to be fair, Echols did give you a back handed compliment - take it for what it is. You have nothing to be ashamed of.
Thanks Edward, I appreciate it.
Wb Matt ! Amped as always to see your new uploads. And if you get time I truly am curious about what you thought about the reunited Zombies - especially the state of Blunstones voice and if they’re making any new music worth hearing. The Band and Monkees pulled it off so why not ?
It must be nerve wracking to know that members of the band you’re covering might be watching. Be warned - Micky Dolenz is notoriously litigious. The upside is if/when you do the heartbreaking story of Badfinger (ok not the 60s but let’s not quibble) you’re only in danger of being watched by Joey Molland. Congrats on the verbal ass-kicking from an actual member of Love !!
It’s true. At no point did you suggest that Lee was a thief though I admit I came away with the impression that he was an extremely hard to work with egomaniac. That was MY impression. You never said it. And going back to a convo we had a long time ago, I wonder if the confounded jug player of the Thirteenth Floor Elevators will try and deny he went on to become an outspoken white supremacist a-hole. If you need citations I can give you plenty from the book ‘Eye of the Pyramid’. Still it’s quite an achievement . First ruin the sound of a great band with relentless jug tooting and go on to make people around you miserable with your rabid racism. A life of accomplishment! 👍
I actually don't think about the musicians watching, though I am flattered when they do. The Zombies were excellent and I've seen them 4 times from about 2003-2019. Blunstone's voice still has power and they did a new album about 7 years ago that was surprisingly good.
Matt, is this a first that an actual band member has reached out/complained about your videos? Wild...
The first complaint, yes. He should be glad his band is being talked about at all.
The door 🚪 is a jar 🫙 😳 😂😂😂😂
Arthur 😂😂😂
Matt l'm curious, have any other band members or associates ever contacted you regarding your videos?
Gene Cornish of the Rascals and the Flirtations contacted me with favorable feedback, but those are the only two up til now.
I have an idea. You should Pop Goes The 70s, that will be great.
This channel may take a couple of 'field trips' into the 70s in 2024 🙂
I foresee the Heart story as one of the features...
You did your do diligence as far as research goes, and provided proof of such. It comes down to what is the number of books and/or sources does it take to write something truthful? And no it's not a riddle. Bottom line is, you weren't there to see or hear what went on. That's no a fault, but reality. As a storyteller, you need to rely on information that has been written for you. It seems you take your time, and your thorough with the research you are able to obtain. Keep up the good work!
Thanks. This video ended up being a quasi behind the scenes look at how I create these, a topic some viewers have been asking for. Guess I will have to comply!
Excellent follow up Matt. My question is this really Johnny Echols e-mailing you?? He sounds like some clown just trying to insult your work.
It is him because the information he gave about their management and representation was very detailed. He has given many interviews on his history - many of which I used in my research, so it was disappointing that my offer to appear on my channel went unacknowledged.
Hey Matt! What's going on?
Swell
The worst thing for a band is to get that close to making real money but stubbing their toes.
Wait until you do a recap on the group Oasis, I bet you the stories about those two brothers would make Arthur Lee look like Harry Chapin
Luckily this isn't Pop Goes the 90s. 🙂
I'm perhaps confused about this matter of Arthur selling a publisher, along with his own songs, four Brian MacLean songs. I gather it is unclear whether he did so wittingly or unwittingly? But that, either way, his doing so burneded the MacLean estate with having to extricate the four songs at issue? And finally I'm confused as to whether you raised the issue in the two-part series, or just here as an example of something you decided to omit as you felt it would bog down the series - but wanted to raise here as an example of something arguably unflattering to Arthur that you omitted, in order to demonstrate you had not approached the series with some kind of ax to grind against him, or looking to throw the book at him.
Hey Ben. Grass Roots Music was the band's publishing company. Lee sold the entire catalog, but other band members had some of that publishing as co-writers or in MacLean's case, a the sole writer. So I don't know how he handled paying out the other members, but he did not execute any pay out of MacLean's songs. That was done after the fact and legal action was threatened against the new owners to make that happen.
The issue of omitting material in the case of the Love video was a decision made to shorten the video. There was way more negative comments about Lee than I needed so I left many out. As I said, I could do an entire video and list them, which would be entertaining, but would take the focus off the music. I had shot the entire series before I received Echols' comments, so his sensitivity to my comments made about Lee’s character and his response needed addressing. I offered as balanced of a telling as I could and to “say only nice things about Arthur” would be horribly out of balance. The recap, which I probably never would have done if not for Echols’ comments, gave me the opportunity to show the process of historiography, my research methods, and that I have no problem correcting the record if need be.
It was also a good example of how “doing one’s homework” to try and “get it right” often times transcends band members own telling of their history which come with inherent biases.
Hi Matt. I believe that Arthur Lee was the best thing about Love. I also believe he was the worst thing about Love. I sometimes wonder how different the history of the group would've been if (amongst other scenarios) Arthur had agreed to play Monterey and allowed more Bryan MacLean songs onto Love's albums.
Yes, there were several missed opportunities that are easy to see now. I appreciate the comments, Robert!
Terrific talent, difficult personality is the distinct impression I'm getting. This of course could be said of other artists whose work I love, including David Crosby, Bob Dylan, and of course Randy California of Spirit.
They would have been much bigger commercially, I think. Arthur Lee was the center of the band but he was also what held them back, it seems to me.
You're welcome Matt.
Deleted my comment?? Guess I won’t be checking out anymore videos. And I’ll take my “like” back too. 🤷♂
No deletion on my end. Why don't you repost so I can see what your beef is. Sometimes youtube holds comments for review if there is profanity or links.
@@popgoesthe60s52 No profanity, no links. I said roughly ~Mr Echols seems to be taking himself a little too seriously and something like ~he should be glad you did anything at all about Love. 🤷♂
Sorry Matt, but one more thought. Love never had the press of the Beatles or other less well known groups. But your band histories invariably seem to draw comments that one listener or another was unfamiliar with the band, but after your history, someone will say that they will try their music. Even bad press is good news for 'unknown' artists, and it is glaringly obvious that you Love the group. Probably not as much as Nick Drake, but Love's record sales have grown over time. Echols must be daft not to see that you have expanded Love's fan base.
People from bands as obscure as Echols former band should be glad anyone is talking about them at all. His over emotional response was disappointing because he couldn’t see what my base audience sees - a band history done with loving care and in good faith.
@@popgoesthe60s52My thoughts exactly. Sad to his his response, but your two part history and your response were a joy to see.
What a prick! He should be happy anyone still remembers them or gives them recognition. I have the best of love on cd. Had it for years. They did not last the test of time like their contemporaries like the doors etc. Very dated. A few songs i recognized being covered by others artists. Love just did not do it for me and for john eichols to be such a jerk to you. Your videos on jefferson airplane and the rascals turned me onto those bands big time btw. But if anything john eichols could have at least given yoy constructive criticism instead of being a full blown jerk.
Why he was unable to recognize that my 1-hour video series was honoring his band (warts and all) is a shame. Like you said, these guys should be happy they are being talked about at all!
@popgoesthe60s52 you got felix Cavallari. Thumbs up there. But he loves talking to you tubers and just about anyone.