Ivan, I'm not a mechanic and I have limited electrical knowledge. You made this easy for me to understand with your white board of knowledge and you excellent explanation. Thank you!!!
Before I start I and many other backyard mechanics would like to thank you for your knowledge and your videos. You explain everything in plain language that everyone can understand. I watch every video of yours THANK YOU AGAIN Bill N
One further benefit of the old school battery load testers versus the new digital ones that simulate a load. The old testers with a heat coil in them would show a bad battery almost immediately. Had this very discussion with a parts store trying to tell me that my battery was fine when it was cooked.
excellant video Ivan. I took AUTO TECH. in high school and college, also worked as a mechanic for many years. The only legit way to test a battery is with a load test. Those electronic battery testers at part stores are NFG. A quick and dirty way to load test. a battery is to hook up a voltmeter, turn on the headlamps for 10 or 15 minutes , if the battery drops below 9.6 volts the battery is bad . THE BATTERY MUST BE FULLY CHARGED BEFORE DOING THIS TEST.
Actually, this is technically more a test of capacity than anything else. LOAD testing is more when there is a high-amp draw over a short period of time, as opposed to a low-amp draw over a long period. Also this video was way long winded, and hard to follow. Nice try though.. Best EASY/Quick way to load test is to watch the voltage during cranking. If it drops below 10volts, then your battery is weak and needs replacing (if all connections are good).
30 years ago another battery test I was told to do was use a big charger set to high and do a 3 minute quick test charge if it went to 15 volts or over that battery was bad, replace it. Stuck with that esp if battery did not have a good crank power.
I just went through this with my truck. At about 6 months old, my battery started dying after sitting for a week. Then it would sometimes die over night. Or a week. Went to an auto parts store and had the battery checked.... Twice. At two different places! They said "Good To Go, Battery is fine". Then twice, after being driven an hour to a horse show it would die while there. I went through the whole under-hood fuse box and the one inside looking for current flow across all the fuses I could find. I just knew there had to be parasitic draw! I did this many times because the problem was so erratic and I didn't know if I was catching it while it was acting up. In the meantime I went so far as to install an on-board batter charger so we could use the truck until I found the problem. I was just about to give up and bring it up to you :) Then I hooked up my volt meter to the battery while tying start it. Voltage dropped to 9 volts as soon as the starter engaged. After it dropped out, the voltage stayed low. Went and got a new battery under warranty. It's been good ever since. This video would have made me think a bit deeper into my problem back then. Thanks for posting these in depth trouble shooting techniques. I know I need a new amp clamp now. One that measures DC.
Great channel and i loved your video with Eric from SMA tracing down that twisted camshaft and chewed bearing with lean condition. Excellent demonstration of real testing on the vehicle to test a battery circuit to see if a battery is actually bad. Can i just add some points. As shown, a multi meter and Amp clamp are vital to do complete checks on a charging system and when you work on electronics as well as i do. One thing that is possible and not shown here, is if the Alternators diodes are shorted- which happens sometimes. If this occurs when the car is off, the amps will flow back towards the Alt and to earth- draining the battery. So if i find a battery overnight drained, i check the voltage to confirm drain, then i replace with good battery, hook a clamp on either battery cable and see if current is flowing. Make sure all doors and inside lights are off and if you still see amps, something is drawing the current. Next step is to put that clamp around the B+ fat charging cable coming from Alt. You should see NO amps. If you see the same amp number it means its flowing back through the alt and you have bad alt. Disconnect that wire and check at battery again and you should see NO drain now. If drain is not coming from alt but from cars circuit, you need to start pulling circuit fuses till you isolate where the juice is going. The Alt diode failure is more likely an overnight dead battery situation and i have had one myself. The reason is that the alt can only drain at a certain rate so with a good 50 amp battery, i hour to drain isnt possible, but 12 hours is easily possible. However If you have a worn really marginal capacity battery, and find it drained after a few hours , then the bad alt is possible as it dosent take much drain to weaken the capacity of a worn battery as shown on this video. A Battery can have volts and amps available or just volts and not much maps under load. So you can charge up and see 12.5 volts and if you hook a little bulb to it, you still see same volts but is you put a bigger load on it, then voltage should only drop to 10.5V and hold there for a bit-say for the starter motor of 100-300 amps. Alt output test to do accurately, you really need a good battery, but with engine running you connect clamp around B+ cable and turns things on. You will see more and more amps output from alt and if regulator is working correctly you will see approx reg voltage say 14V holding ok at lots amps. Those amps are going to power all the things you turn on and a bit left over to charge the battery. If alt was faulty, the voltage would start to crash as you ask for more and amps would stop way short of the Alt rated output of say 80Amps. RMP needs to be well above idle as idle only produces a limited amount of amps. 2000 RMP will be plenty to get at least enough amps for testing of lights and aircon. You dont need to go to max output, half is enough to prove a good alt is working satisfactory. So summary- Possible bad battery?- Check alt output, loose cables to battery clamps and clean, Amps leaving battery when car is Off. Amps leaving Alt when car is off. Then charge battery on charger, conform good voltage then draw Lots current and see if it can hold at least 10V, otherwise the battery is bad- even new batteries can fail early If your battery is 4+ years old then capacity WILL be down so, harder to start is normal and no battery can be "repaired" once that lead is gone of the plates . Its just worn out and needs replacing.
I remember Eric, O did a video using the pico scope and a time base of 1 update per min. and left the lap top run for hours to find a drawal from bad alternator, I love the fact you did this Old school ! Hope the horn did not scare any horse's. I guess this proves you don't always need a 5000 dollar scanner to fix a new car. I am impressed that a DC amp clamp can detect currentflow of such low amounts. Also, love the dash. looks like the star ship enterprise when you turn on the key. Great Job ! I learnso much watching you.
When I was a kid, I put a new generator on a 1954 Buick. You were supposed to polarize the gen with a wire touched to the battery. Mine charged backwards according to the generator gage. I took it to my mechanic and he turned on the headlights to discharge the bat and properly polarized the generator. I learned a lot that day!
We were long overdue for a whiteboard lesson. Great explanation Ivan. I'd like to see you discuss voltage drop testing since overlooking it can get you into a parts cannon situation. Thanks!
Thanks for recording and posting this video. My local mechanics are afraid of electrical problems -- I can't even persuade them to do a parasitic draw test.
This is the best explanation and process to check a battery for a novice, It is easy to understand if you know Ohms Law and electronics, modern cars are full of electronic meaning Computor Busses twisted pairs etc. some of the expensive ones have Fiber optics all this is to cut down on noise interference, signals and waveforms are another area of knowledge needed to explain what happens with coild and releysas they are energized and so on. so bottom line is for people such as you and other who teach electronic can explain some of these funtion. Excllent job Ivan.
Excellent point ( @ 15:40) about the post jump scenario of correct voltage but very low charge current. One symptom of a battery with severely diminished capacity. Easy to overlook . Thanx.
I love your explanations and I am a retired (disabled) electrician. I couldn’t get major auto parts store to understand my methods vs their tester and they won’t warranty their crap batteries.
Hello Ivan, when Battery capacity = 65Ah this means that this battery can be discharged during 20 ours with a current of 65 : 20 = 3,25A (at 1,75V per cel at the end of this 20 ours discharge). Greetings from Holland. Nice video again. Greetings Hans
Cheap AC conductance testers that are commonly used by parts stores rely on the battery having a full charge before testing. It sounds like the stores who tested your client's battery got a message from the tester that the battery was undercharged, so they didn't proceed to the next step of actually testing the battery. Their glaring mistake was not to fully charge and retest. Old style testers would put a charge onto the battery while the client waited for an hour or so, and often the battery would clearly fail after that partial charge. If I think a battery is bad, I warm and trickle charge it at home overnight, topping up any cells that are low on electrolyte. After that, it is much easier to condemn a battery that has been given every chance to pass.
I know this is an old comment but I worked for an autozone for a few years, didn't hate it but wasn't a great job. I remember testing probably 50 batteries a day, usually when the battery was too low to test we'd ask the customer if they wanted us to charge it up and test it, which would take 20-45 minutes depending on the battery. The overwhelming majority of them declined and either bought a battery or went home to charge it themselves
Nice video Ivan, one small criticism. I don't think it was clear to less experienced viewers that the main reason you used the DVOM in current mode to check for sleeping parasitic load was the fact that the amp clamp meter is not as accurate in detecting very small current flow as the DVOM as a current meter in series. Also worth a mention that a really cheap DVOM may not have the ability to measure current.
That's a pretty good explanation.... One of the better ones I have seen. Well Done. I might add, just to totally nitpick, the 6 cells in the battery would be around 2.2 volts each, fully charged. Thus, 6*2.2= 13.2 volts, would be a really charged up brand new battery. 12.8, should be commonly seen, on a charged up "good" battery.... Also, I mean, I was told at one time, parasitic draws should be chased, until you get down below 200 milliamps. In the modern day, Many luxury SUV's, Luxury muscle cars, anything heavily optioned, you could well see 500 milliamps, and, that's as low as it gets.... I have seen in some owners manuals, they recommend a new battery every year, presumably because they know the car or truck is always in a state of a mild parasitic draw.... I'm not saying you should blindly accept a draw of 500 milliamps, but before you spend a week chasing that, and driving yourself insane, do some due diligence, and find out, is that normal, or not..... I got a laugh out of your "Battery outlet specialty" store, also.... (I think we know who you were talking about there, heh heh).... Now, I wasn't there, so, take a grain of salt with this, but I'm guessing the meter was telling him "Battery cannot be tested until charged".... So, the employee is not properly trained, and does not understand what the meter is telling him, and he tells the customer "Yeah, it's good, it just needs a charge", which is incorrect, as you showed....
Very nice video would you be able to make a battery-Alternator-draw test on a truck with 2 batteries and test both for me please . And thanks for all you do you are a very talented man. : )
You must do a "Rudimentary Series" This video with your instruction, fills in the gap for those born genius but spent crucial high school years doing bong hits in their friend's mother's basement listening to Led Zeppelin. Thank you Professor Ivan.
Excellent video Ivan! This is a big help to me! Thank you sir for taking the time to teach me and many others! I look forward to more of your teaching videos! Thumbs up as always!
Best explanation of the relationships between charging voltages and currents under different conditions I have seen yet on the internet Ivan! Most tubers don't break out the whiteboard/ visual aid which really helps us understand the interplay between voltage and charging and discharging current. After seeing your video will want to get an amp clamp. Many tubers promote the amp hound but that will not show intermittent draw so like your solution better. Thanks for the good work! Perhaps you will explain how to find faulty components using the voltage drop method. Lots of confusion on that.
Too many places use a resistance type tester to test batteries as they are safe and easy to use. I always back them up with a proper load tester. So many times the resistance tester was wrong you wouldn't believe it.
battery issues with my honda odessy handicapped vmi conversion i get worried being handicapped wih an unreliabe van it s been to both vmi and honda of course honda says its not our problem i have added a voltage gauge so i can check voltage before an after using my van keep up the good work your customers are lucky to have you dale janssen retired in arizona
I have a few tool suggestions for you that are intended for electricians but are adaptable for use in the automotive trade. First is a very small amp clamp that would be real handy then I have included a few tools meant to pull/manipulate wires without marring insulation and keeping hands safe. ▶ Regarding the [need for a smaller] 'amp clamp' I have a recommendation for one that would be just perfect for this application. I have been involved in the commercial and residential electrical trade for several decades and possess quite an inventory of electrical diagnostic pieces. The particular instrument that I am reccomending is: . . . 'Uni-t UT210E' - AC/DC volt & amp; amp ranges of 2, 20, 100 (100A max range covers most sins, and has very excellent low amp resolution in lower ranges); data hold feature; 'zero' button for DCA; clamp is marked for +/- side orientation direction for DCA use; ohm & continuity; very compact unit will easily fit into a shirt pocket and will physically get into spaces under a hood that would prove prohibitive with a larger unit; it also has an excellent 'NCV' that is non-contact voltage feature which is intended for AC (and is very sensitive and works very well), but what I discovered is that the LED visual and audible notification also responds to my phone and tablet charger wires (when plugged in) which are DC, I'm not quite sure why it does that but anyway it detects those voltages (perhaps it will respond to auto system voltage which could come in real handy); it comes with carry case and leads; all of that for under $50; the only thing I wish it would have is a min/max feature however the unit is quite small and possibly prohibitive for another button. ▶ www.knipex.com/index.php?id=1216&L=1&page=group_detail&isMobile=&parentID=2719&groupID=1791 ▪ KNIPEX Tools 98 62 02, Flat Nose Plastic Pliers 1000V Insulated ▪ Knipex Tools 98 62 01 Snipe Nose Plastic Pliers 1000V Insulated ▶ voltclaw.com/ VOLTCLAW COMBO-PACK Nonconductive Electrical Wire Pliers
Thanks for the post and good technical explanation. The only thing I ever understood about electrics is white to white and black to black. You just made it a little easier to wake up some confused brain cells and spark my interest. I've got a car that destroys a battery every 2 years or so and now I feel I can go trouble shoot and hopefully if I have a draw problem I will find it instead of buying a new batt so often. Thanks again.
So let’s say my battery is alwaysssss testing weak on my battery tester(10.5-10.8) but never leaves me stranded or is never “dead”... safe to say my alternator is doing the job and the battery is just slowly starting to croak?? Idk how I found your channel but I sure do appreciate it man. I think watching Eric O sent me this way!!
Thank you for this episode with whiteboard and practical it helped me get my head around amps and current which has always been a mystery to me Thanks for showing us how to use the tools too especially the power of a test light so simple yet powerful
Excellent tutorial Sir Ivan!!! A great teacher makes a complex and difficult subject looks easy and simple !!! Indeed you are a great teacher!! I am one your avid student!!
I always first test the battery with a voltmeter connected to the battery POSTS directly. Apply a load and try to crank it. If the voltage stays relatively high but the starter can't crank, the battery connection is corroded on either negative or positive connector. Just to confirm, I connect the voltmeter to the battery TERMINALS (directly) and do the test again. 90 % of a time, this condition is caused by corroded connection points at the battery. Also, a battery can have a bad internal connection. I have seen this happen a lot. Usually this battery will pass all load tests and fails intermittently. You may also notice unusual idle RPM variations (AC must be off).
Yes- this is similar to "honey, turn the lights on" - then crank the starter, if the lights don't dim- you have high resistance connections to/from the battery... i.e. dirty connectors.
you didn't open the door after shutting the car off, so it stayed "alive" for the "infotainment" system, as you opened the door it went to sleep/power down mode. don't know how many times they've got me that way... I like old school key off draw off, stupendous new junk
Very well explained. I have never heard the term parasitic drain. Basically, it's a drain on the battery when the car is asleep and their shouldn't be one.
I really like this watch more than once video. Its all the extra ideas of what to expect from the alternator system. I have also been using a topdon tester for its internal resistance of the battery.
Brilliant video, thanks. One other thing I always look for with a charge fault is battery light operation, obviously it should go off once the engine starts and alternator begins to charge the system, but you can get a flickering light or a very dim batt light. Also, with the draw test, I use a jump cable to extend the cars wiring across negative side, then attach my dvom to batt negative-wire loom negative lock the vehicle, remove one jump clamp so the current runs through meter only, I find this reduces loss of contact with meter, I have replaced a few 2A fuses. 🤬🤬
Worth noting that different vehicles will have different optimal charging voltage ranges. My car for example requires 14.3V-14.7V. Excellent diagnostic work.
Good stuff Ivan. Ive been doing alot off back to basics troubleshooting and this info really helps. Its awesome how much you can troubleshoot with basic tools just by loading the battery and measuring voltage drop. Also measuring alternator charging with the amp clamp to see if the battery is accepting the charge. I bought an Astro amp clamp/mm and a standard multimeter to measure inline amps. They work great and are affordable. Ive learned alot watching your vids and you inspired me to experiment with inexpensive oscilloscopes to up my diagnostics game. I also use an xtool d8 scan tool. Ive become pretty dangerous with your help😂 Thx
i simply do it with a voltmeter, if with the lights and heater fan and you still get more than 14.2v engine running, then its the battery, modern cars the parasitic draw has to be done several times over hours of turning the car off, they often draw power for an hour or so for things.
like other have stated electricity flows from negative to positive but other than that good video.. ive noticed with a voltmeter hooked up and a load applied when you release the load the voltage comes back to a certain point. watch your meter it should continue to creep up in voltage. if it doesnt then the battery is no longer chemically active and able to recover. i've spotted many a battery like this and they all failed shortly after.
"Current" is the word for rate-of-flow of charge, not rate of flow of electrons. In the common case of current in wires, charge movement is due to electrons carrying that negative charge, and will be in the direction from negative battery terminal to positive. This is a negative current from negative to positive which is identical to a positive current from positive to negative.
My battery fully charged is around 12.7xV - leave it overnight goes down to 12.2x so lost .5 of a V over night, checked for draw, car goes to sleep after 5-10 mins and draw moves from 500 mA to 30mA within 10 mins, I have to do one final test, I will lock the doors and latch the hood and activate the alarm and see how much it draws then with the security system on. Here's the kicker though, it still done the same with the battery disconnected so I'm suspecting I have a voltage leak on the battery. The battery is new but was running with a 3AMP draw before it diagnosed for a about a week or so, this may have damaged the new battery but that's what I suspect at the moment, I will test it with the lights on and see how quick it drops, great vid
NAPA Legend, nice. hopefully you got a good one. i got burned by that brand. the battery would take a charge and hold voltage while cranking but would die after a few days. almost replaced the alternator but figured out the battery was internally shorted. it was like having a parasitic draw inside the battery. the damn thing was always slightly warm, even sitting.
you must keep them charged and not leave lights on overnight. in fairness, i don't know the history of my particular battery, just I spent way too much time figuring out it was bad:)
Ivan,i have a very old Christie battery tester that will check alternator output and also put a load on the battery by pushing a button,it works GREAT,and i use a vom to check for parasitic draws,i dont think Christie is around any more!!
The best way I have found to test a battery that is not sealed is with a hydrometer. It looks like an antifreeze tester. I use a temperature compensated handheld refratometer. One bad call will kill a battery because it is always drawing on itself to bring all cells up to an equilibrium.
Great video... what would of been nice is a comparison between new and old battery of the discharge and recovery rate with loads on/off. What I’d like to see if it’s possible to run that old battery completely flat and see if you can reverse charge it turning negative terminal into positive terminal. 👍🏻👍🏻
4:15 12.6 to 10v just by turning the key on = battery shot. 12:50 amp clamp on pos or neg cable. 14:22 get car running with boost, disconnect, then see how long it takes for current to drop to zero/sleep. 19:35 battery drained from 12.x to 9.x in 5 seconds with headlights on, dead. 20:37 alternator good. 22:25 0.2 amp draw is still substantial, but 0.1 amp is not foolproof due to tool's margin of error. 23:22 the only way to know 100% is to hookup multi in series with either terminal without disconnecting the battery/waking car (and risk blowing a fuse on reconnect).
I like your explanation of battery operation it’s simple for any diy guy to get his/her head around each cell in battery is 2.1 volt six cells equals 12.6 volt which is where the base voltage comes from you are also correct in sulfates they insulate a percentage of the conductive plates and even if you have 2.1 volts from the cell contributing to overall voltage output it’s easy to see if you have one cell cooked and conductive plate 50% insulated by sulphate it diminishes current capacity on the one cell by 50% your looking at 10% reduction in current capacity just on one cell an as cells generally insulate the same in each cell just 50% reduction in capacity across six cells means a 500 cca battery is reduced to 250 cca maybe just enough to start a ride on lawn mower asked on the symptoms during your testing I would say you have 65-70% suphate insulation well and truly done that battery is cooked , but I have had some success in rejuvenating less cooked batteries by reversing electron flow in micro bursts if battery too far gone then it doesn’t work but 30% or less it works well
Good discription Ivan. I’ve usually heard you can have a cell or a few go bad and the battery is shot. It only takes a few. Or with a battery that has been discharged for a long time the cells can sulfate. Hard to bring back if it’s been in that state too long. Usually if a battery goes bad it’s one of two things. A parasitic draw or an aged battery that’s worn out.
That car makes your garage look big. That was a great lesson Ivan. I'll be second guessing my battery tester now. Thanks for confusing me. (ha ha) Not really, your explanation coupled with the visuals made perfect sense. The horn scared me but it made me laugh too.
I bought a napa battery to relace a diehard sears battery that was good for 8 years the Napa battery died after leaving the care for 2days unused took it back and they gave me another battery it did the same thing, so I tought that there must be parasitic draw hooded up the amp clamp as your explaination and I did not see any high draw Napa was good to replaced the batterythe second time and it was good but what I did and not take any chance of blowing this battery I bought a trickle charger and hooked up every time I left the car in the garage and so far so good no problem with the battery. I still think there is some kinda draw that I havn't figured out. my car is 1988 Honda accord lxi. thanks Ivan.
Last time I bought a new battery it was for my 2012 Infiniti FX 50S. I checked the manufacturing dates of all available batteries at the shop. The most recent one was manufactured 3 months prior to my purchase, so I bought that one. The original battery lasted about 6 years, and died suddenly without pre-warning after a 15 minutes visit to my local petrol station. So it will be interesting to see how long the new one lasts. My guess is 3-4 years in the climate where I live now. That was the typical battery life when I lived in similar conditions in South Africa. 😊
Awesome. I put a battery saver in my DLC and it give power and ground temporarily till i hook the new battery up. All my ready monitors stay complete as well
Regarding jump starting using battery packs: If you were jump starting a large 6 or V8 engine and the Noko didn’t have enough beans to crank the engine on its own, could you use it together with another cars battery in a piggyback fashion to safely crank the engine?
Nice video. I got a understanding of the concept. Question. Is the voltage test for the alternator sufficient to determine it's health ? Like do we have to measure how many amps it's putting out to the battery, car accessories, etc?
I seem to recall from watching one of Erics charging videos about the pcm controlling the charge in some newer cars and in the old days we had a metal box on the firewall called a regulator which sometimes went bad before the batt. How is a pcm different from a reg on an alternator. We'd occasionally take one of the old metal firewall regs apart but it seemed to have some crude electrics a few contact posts and a wire wound resistor of some kind. Never really sure how it sensed a full battery. Actually those firewall regs were back in the day of generators. Great vid! Thanks!!
Some of the PCM-controlled systems will do things like decrease charging while accelerating to remove the load from the engine, and increase charging while decelerating to use some of the vehicle's momentum to charge the battery. All in pursuit of better fuel economy.
as always ,great and helpful video,actually tomorrow i had a case just like your car but i'm pretty sure mine has parasitic draw issue ,because the owner said the battery has been changed 3 times with new one🙂
Those capacitance testers that battery dealers use place a lot of emphasis on the open-circuit voltage of the battery. If the open-circuit voltage is 12.5-12.6, the battery is deemed "good". If the voltage is 12-12.4, it will read "good, recharge". Below 12 volts, and you'll get a "bad" reading. I tested a lot of batteries with 12.6 open-circuit voltage but only 50-100 CCA measured on the tester. The tester said "good, recharge" but my knowledge told me the battery was junk. The carbon pile tester confirmed my diagnosis. I may be old-fashioned, but the best way to test batteries is with a carbon pile load tester, because it tests under real-world conditions. I guess they don't use them much anymore because they require skill to use properly.
Hi Ivan - top notch testing buddy. As a top tech myself :) I have seen 12.6 and its a bad battery . In my experience people never change their battery till it causes a no crank :) Now a computer controlled alternator is something much different and testing is much different with a whole new set of variables - oh I don't like that word it's like a little bit pregnant. Cheers bud and hope alls well .
Hi Steve! Good to hear from you! Hey I'm heading across the border into Canada this week to visit the GM St Catharines engine plant :)And this was a computer-controlled alternator BTW haha
Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics So that would explain it all, I knew there was something going on . Have fun in Canada , if they arrest you at the border give me a call . 😂😂🇨🇦
It's not a Fluke. ;) The only drawback it has for me it's that there's no Min/Max. But we can use the scope for that. It's a great sidekick unit to accompany your main meter. Great for quick stuff, goes up to 200 amps and down to 1 milliamp. Likely not that accurate down there but for parasitic draws it's fine enough. I also use it on 240v for checking on my usage at my panel for my generator (South Florida). The jaws are big enough to close around a 4/0 wire. At that price (if it's still there), everyone should have one.
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics No catch really! I own one of those and they are worth every penny. They are sensitive enough to read earth's magnetic field variations, that is why you should reset clamps in the orientation you will be clamping onto cables. Some people have even tapped into the circuit board to use this clamp as a current clamp for a scope (not really good or worth doing). Perfect tool for any kind of non intrusive circuit check, parasitic draw chasing, etc.
I like your explanation on how the positive charges move to the negative and 6 charges x 2.1vdc = 12.6vdc. However, If 5 charges are gone, how does the battery (at 2.1vdc) charge back up to 12vdc?
I have a strange feeling that vehicle has a power distribution block issue or an ECU issue as the ECU's have a way to control the alternator based off of temps airconditioning load and rpm's because of the facts that all my newer vehicles above 2005 take a long time for the keep alive memory inside the ECU to draindown if I dont turn the key on and try to start the vehicle aswell as hit the brake pedal and turn on the headlight switch to drain off the charge held with-in faster it takes between 15-20 mins to do a regular keep alive memory drainoff down to dead zero at disconnect and when I saw instant drainoff it immediately caught my eye...
Using a Snap-on Bat-Alt-Starter tester, you can load test the charging system, engine running of course, load test the battery, engine off, and watch the charging system with the engine running. You need the DMM for voltage drop checks to make sure the charging system is getting amperage to the battery and no voltage drop is happening. Those capacity battery testers do not load test the battery! A load test is the starter cranking the engine. The Snap-on tester does that. Those parts house testers can't do that.
Ivan can you please do more videos like this for example the basics like how to know when and where you can check amps and reading diagrams to check continuity and just overall basic checks of sensors and wiring ?
That sounds like a series of 10 videos! I was thinking of doing one on cooling system diagnostics and how to pinpoint the possible failures without guessing :)
To do the test your doing you should start with a charged battery in case the modules or other devices dont respond to a low voltage to turn on and draw current.
Thank you so much for the video and drawing it out it was very easy easier to understand the way you just showed it thank you love it please keep it up
This is an excellent video. I'll watch it a bunch of times until I got it all 100%. If cars vary on how long it takes all the modules to "go to sleep" after turning off the engine, how long should we continue to monitor the amperage draw before we can be sure it is a parasitic draw? PS I would love to see a follow-up video to this one!
Ivan, I'm not a mechanic and I have limited electrical knowledge. You made this easy for me to understand with your white board of knowledge and you excellent explanation. Thank you!!!
Love how you take the time to help me visualize what is how the charging system works. Thanks.
Before I start I and many other backyard mechanics would like to thank you for your knowledge and your videos. You explain everything in plain language that everyone can understand. I watch every video of yours THANK YOU AGAIN Bill N
I appreciate the feedback, Bill!
One further benefit of the old school battery load testers versus the new digital ones that simulate a load. The old testers with a heat coil in them would show a bad battery almost immediately. Had this very discussion with a parts store trying to tell me that my battery was fine when it was cooked.
excellant video Ivan.
I took AUTO TECH. in high school and college, also worked as a mechanic for many years.
The only legit way to test a battery is with a load test. Those electronic battery testers at part stores are NFG.
A quick and dirty way to load test. a battery is to hook up a voltmeter, turn on the headlamps for 10 or 15 minutes , if the battery drops below 9.6 volts the battery is bad .
THE BATTERY MUST BE FULLY CHARGED BEFORE DOING THIS TEST.
Yup that is a great load test. Car comes equipped with a built-in load tester!
Actually, this is technically more a test of capacity than anything else. LOAD testing is more when there is a high-amp draw over a short period of time, as opposed to a low-amp draw over a long period. Also this video was way long winded, and hard to follow. Nice try though..
Best EASY/Quick way to load test is to watch the voltage during cranking. If it drops below 10volts, then your battery is weak and needs replacing (if all connections are good).
@@Johnathan_Waters assuming your starter doesn't have an excessive draw when cranking for some reason.
30 years ago another battery test I was told to do was use a big charger set to high and do a 3 minute quick test charge if it went to 15 volts or over that battery was bad, replace it. Stuck with that esp if battery did not have a good crank power.
I just went through this with my truck. At about 6 months old, my battery started dying after sitting for a week. Then it would sometimes die over night. Or a week. Went to an auto parts store and had the battery checked.... Twice. At two different places! They said "Good To Go, Battery is fine". Then twice, after being driven an hour to a horse show it would die while there. I went through the whole under-hood fuse box and the one inside looking for current flow across all the fuses I could find. I just knew there had to be parasitic draw! I did this many times because the problem was so erratic and I didn't know if I was catching it while it was acting up. In the meantime I went so far as to install an on-board batter charger so we could use the truck until I found the problem. I was just about to give up and bring it up to you :) Then I hooked up my volt meter to the battery while tying start it. Voltage dropped to 9 volts as soon as the starter engaged. After it dropped out, the voltage stayed low. Went and got a new battery under warranty. It's been good ever since. This video would have made me think a bit deeper into my problem back then. Thanks for posting these in depth trouble shooting techniques. I know I need a new amp clamp now. One that measures DC.
I've just bought an AC/DC Amp clamp from eBay for just under 19 quid. Can't wait to get it and run through this whole routine.
Thanks for this tip!
The same thing happened to me tonight. Guy, at the autoparts, said there is no way I have a bad battery.
Great channel and i loved your video with Eric from SMA tracing down that twisted camshaft and chewed bearing with lean condition.
Excellent demonstration of real testing on the vehicle to test a battery circuit to see if a battery is actually bad.
Can i just add some points. As shown, a multi meter and Amp clamp are vital to do complete checks on a charging system and when you work on electronics as well as i do.
One thing that is possible and not shown here, is if the Alternators diodes are shorted- which happens sometimes. If this occurs when the car is off, the amps will flow back towards the Alt and to earth- draining the battery. So if i find a battery overnight drained, i check the voltage to confirm drain, then i replace with good battery, hook a clamp on either battery cable and see if current is flowing. Make sure all doors and inside lights are off and if you still see amps, something is drawing the current. Next step is to put that clamp around the B+ fat charging cable coming from Alt. You should see NO amps. If you see the same amp number it means its flowing back through the alt and you have bad alt. Disconnect that wire and check at battery again and you should see NO drain now. If drain is not coming from alt but from cars circuit, you need to start pulling circuit fuses till you isolate where the juice is going.
The Alt diode failure is more likely an overnight dead battery situation and i have had one myself. The reason is that the alt can only drain at a certain rate so with a good 50 amp battery, i hour to drain isnt possible, but 12 hours is easily possible. However If you have a worn really marginal capacity battery, and find it drained after a few hours , then the bad alt is possible as it dosent take much drain to weaken the capacity of a worn battery as shown on this video.
A Battery can have volts and amps available or just volts and not much maps under load. So you can charge up and see 12.5 volts and if you hook a little bulb to it, you still see same volts but is you put a bigger load on it, then voltage should only drop to 10.5V and hold there for a bit-say for the starter motor of 100-300 amps.
Alt output test to do accurately, you really need a good battery, but with engine running you connect clamp around B+ cable and turns things on. You will see more and more amps output from alt and if regulator is working correctly you will see approx reg voltage say 14V holding ok at lots amps. Those amps are going to power all the things you turn on and a bit left over to charge the battery. If alt was faulty, the voltage would start to crash as you ask for more and amps would stop way short of the Alt rated output of say 80Amps. RMP needs to be well above idle as idle only produces a limited amount of amps. 2000 RMP will be plenty to get at least enough amps for testing of lights and aircon. You dont need to go to max output, half is enough to prove a good alt is working satisfactory.
So summary- Possible bad battery?- Check alt output, loose cables to battery clamps and clean, Amps leaving battery when car is Off. Amps leaving Alt when car is off. Then charge battery on charger, conform good voltage then draw Lots current and see if it can hold at least 10V, otherwise the battery is bad- even new batteries can fail early
If your battery is 4+ years old then capacity WILL be down so, harder to start is normal and no battery can be "repaired" once that lead is gone of the plates . Its just worn out and needs replacing.
I remember Eric, O did a video using the pico scope and a time base of 1 update per min. and left the lap top run for hours to find a drawal from bad alternator, I love the fact you did this Old school ! Hope the horn did not scare any horse's. I guess this proves you don't always need a 5000 dollar scanner to fix a new car. I am impressed that a DC amp clamp can detect currentflow of such low amounts. Also, love the dash. looks like the star ship enterprise when you turn on the key. Great Job ! I learnso much watching you.
I'll LL LL
When I was a kid, I put a new generator on a 1954 Buick. You were supposed to polarize the gen with a wire touched to the battery. Mine charged backwards according to the generator gage. I took it to my mechanic and he turned on the headlights to discharge the bat and properly polarized the generator. I learned a lot that day!
Cool!
We were long overdue for a whiteboard lesson. Great explanation Ivan. I'd like to see you discuss voltage drop testing since overlooking it can get you into a parts cannon situation. Thanks!
Thanks for recording and posting this video.
My local mechanics are afraid of electrical problems -- I can't even persuade them to do a parasitic draw test.
Run away from them. They are not mechanics but parts changers.
Have them watch this video!
It seems like in my area all we have are parts changers! It’s so sad.
Yes over here in the UK there called fitters, cause that's all they can do fit new parts.
This is the best explanation and process to check a battery for a novice, It is easy to understand if you know Ohms Law and electronics, modern cars are full of electronic meaning Computor Busses twisted pairs etc. some of the expensive ones have Fiber optics all this is to cut down on noise interference, signals and waveforms are another area of knowledge needed to explain what happens with coild and releysas they are energized and so on. so bottom line is for people such as you and other who teach electronic can explain some of these funtion. Excllent job Ivan.
Excellent point ( @ 15:40) about the post jump scenario of correct voltage but very low charge current. One symptom of a battery with severely diminished capacity. Easy to overlook . Thanx.
Those simple old hand held load testers never let me down.
I love your explanations and I am a retired (disabled) electrician. I couldn’t get major auto parts store to understand my methods vs their tester and they won’t warranty their crap batteries.
Hello Ivan, when Battery capacity = 65Ah this means that this battery can be discharged during 20 ours with a current of 65 : 20 = 3,25A (at 1,75V per cel at the end of this 20 ours discharge). Greetings from Holland. Nice video again. Greetings Hans
I did not know that! The nugget at the end where you get the total load and the charging currents is excellent. THANK YOU!
Cheap AC conductance testers that are commonly used by parts stores rely on the battery having a full charge before testing. It sounds like the stores who tested your client's battery got a message from the tester that the battery was undercharged, so they didn't proceed to the next step of actually testing the battery. Their glaring mistake was not to fully charge and retest. Old style testers would put a charge onto the battery while the client waited for an hour or so, and often the battery would clearly fail after that partial charge. If I think a battery is bad, I warm and trickle charge it at home overnight, topping up any cells that are low on electrolyte. After that, it is much easier to condemn a battery that has been given every chance to pass.
I know this is an old comment but I worked for an autozone for a few years, didn't hate it but wasn't a great job. I remember testing probably 50 batteries a day, usually when the battery was too low to test we'd ask the customer if they wanted us to charge it up and test it, which would take 20-45 minutes depending on the battery. The overwhelming majority of them declined and either bought a battery or went home to charge it themselves
Nice video Ivan, one small criticism. I don't think it was clear to less experienced viewers that the main reason you used the DVOM in current mode to check for sleeping parasitic load was the fact that the amp clamp meter is not as accurate in detecting very small current flow as the DVOM as a current meter in series. Also worth a mention that a really cheap DVOM may not have the ability to measure current.
With you and South Main Auto online we will not need a mechanic shop anymore lol great job and thanks
Am sitting in the toilet watching the white board of knowledge, like a good student that I am !!! Thank Ivan for sharing .
TMI
That's a pretty good explanation.... One of the better ones I have seen. Well Done.
I might add, just to totally nitpick, the 6 cells in the battery would be around 2.2 volts each, fully charged. Thus, 6*2.2= 13.2 volts, would be a really charged up brand new battery. 12.8, should be commonly seen, on a charged up "good" battery....
Also, I mean, I was told at one time, parasitic draws should be chased, until you get down below 200 milliamps. In the modern day, Many luxury SUV's, Luxury muscle cars, anything heavily optioned, you could well see 500 milliamps, and, that's as low as it gets.... I have seen in some owners manuals, they recommend a new battery every year, presumably because they know the car or truck is always in a state of a mild parasitic draw....
I'm not saying you should blindly accept a draw of 500 milliamps, but before you spend a week chasing that, and driving yourself insane, do some due diligence, and find out, is that normal, or not.....
I got a laugh out of your "Battery outlet specialty" store, also.... (I think we know who you were talking about there, heh heh).... Now, I wasn't there, so, take a grain of salt with this, but I'm guessing the meter was telling him "Battery cannot be tested until charged".... So, the employee is not properly trained, and does not understand what the meter is telling him, and he tells the customer "Yeah, it's good, it just needs a charge", which is incorrect, as you showed....
2.1v per cell x 6 = 12.6v
Ivan NEED MORE VIDEOS LIKE THIS very well presented you should in the future show how to diagnose other systems in detail like this one 5 STARTS
Very nice video would you be able to make a battery-Alternator-draw test on a truck with 2 batteries and test both for me please . And thanks for all you do you are a very talented man. : )
You must do a "Rudimentary Series" This video with your instruction, fills in the gap for those born genius but spent crucial high school years doing bong hits in their friend's mother's basement listening to Led Zeppelin.
Thank you Professor Ivan.
Excellent video Ivan! This is a big help to me! Thank you sir for taking the time to teach me and many others! I look forward to more of your teaching videos! Thumbs up as always!
If I ever have a problem on my car I can’t figure out I will drive two hours to come see you Gladly, great video great diagnosis
Best explanation of the relationships between charging voltages and currents under different conditions I have seen yet on the internet Ivan!
Most tubers don't break out the whiteboard/ visual aid which really helps us understand the interplay between voltage and charging and discharging current. After seeing your video will want to get an amp clamp.
Many tubers promote the amp hound but that will not show intermittent draw so like your solution better. Thanks for the good work!
Perhaps you will explain how to find faulty components using the voltage drop method. Lots of confusion on that.
Outstanding job Ivan! I’ve always personally been a fan of your attention to detail in your content you are an awesome teacher!
Your comment made my day Tracy!
Too many places use a resistance type tester to test batteries as they are safe and easy to use. I always back them up with a proper load tester. So many times the resistance tester was wrong you wouldn't believe it.
The ED 18 by midtronics sucks balls, I swear internal resistance type testers are solely designed to sell people batteries.
battery issues with my honda odessy handicapped vmi conversion i get worried being handicapped wih an unreliabe van it s been to both vmi and honda of course honda says its not our problem i have added a voltage gauge so i can check voltage before an after using my van keep up the good work your customers are lucky to have you dale janssen retired in arizona
I realize this is about a year late, but great job as always, Ivan. Thanks.
I have a few tool suggestions for you that are intended for electricians but are adaptable for use in the automotive trade. First is a very small amp clamp that would be real handy then I have included a few tools meant to pull/manipulate wires without marring insulation and keeping hands safe.
▶ Regarding the [need for a smaller] 'amp clamp' I have a recommendation for one that would be just perfect for this application. I have been involved in the commercial and residential electrical trade for several decades and possess quite an inventory of electrical diagnostic pieces. The particular instrument that I am reccomending is:
. . . 'Uni-t UT210E' - AC/DC volt & amp; amp ranges of 2, 20, 100 (100A max range covers most sins, and has very excellent low amp resolution in lower ranges); data hold feature; 'zero' button for DCA; clamp is marked for +/- side orientation direction for DCA use; ohm & continuity; very compact unit will easily fit into a shirt pocket and will physically get into spaces under a hood that would prove prohibitive with a larger unit; it also has an excellent 'NCV' that is non-contact voltage feature which is intended for AC (and is very sensitive and works very well), but what I discovered is that the LED visual and audible notification also responds to my phone and tablet charger wires (when plugged in) which are DC, I'm not quite sure why it does that but anyway it detects those voltages (perhaps it will respond to auto system voltage which could come in real handy); it comes with carry case and leads; all of that for under $50; the only thing I wish it would have is a min/max feature however the unit is quite small and possibly prohibitive for another button.
▶
www.knipex.com/index.php?id=1216&L=1&page=group_detail&isMobile=&parentID=2719&groupID=1791
▪ KNIPEX Tools 98 62 02, Flat Nose Plastic Pliers 1000V Insulated
▪ Knipex Tools 98 62 01 Snipe Nose Plastic Pliers 1000V Insulated
▶
voltclaw.com/
VOLTCLAW COMBO-PACK Nonconductive Electrical Wire Pliers
You have the UNI-T UT213C with MIN/MAX and the UNI-T UT216D model
And the UNI-T UT216D has even INRUSH measuring
Thanks for the post and good technical explanation. The only thing I ever understood about electrics is white to white and black to black. You just made it a little easier to wake up some confused brain cells and spark my interest. I've got a car that destroys a battery every 2 years or so and now I feel I can go trouble shoot and hopefully if I have a draw problem I will find it instead of buying a new batt so often. Thanks again.
Fantastic, 'old school' video Ivan. Incredibly well done.
So let’s say my battery is alwaysssss testing weak on my battery tester(10.5-10.8) but never leaves me stranded or is never “dead”... safe to say my alternator is doing the job and the battery is just slowly starting to croak??
Idk how I found your channel but I sure do appreciate it man. I think watching Eric O sent me this way!!
Thank you for this episode with whiteboard and practical it helped me get my head around amps and current which has always been a mystery to me
Thanks for showing us how to use the tools too especially the power of a test light so simple yet powerful
Excellent tutorial Sir Ivan!!! A great teacher makes a complex and difficult subject looks easy and simple !!! Indeed you are a great teacher!! I am one your avid student!!
I always first test the battery with a voltmeter connected to the battery POSTS directly. Apply a load and try to crank it. If the voltage stays relatively high but the starter can't crank, the battery connection is corroded on either negative or positive connector. Just to confirm, I connect the voltmeter to the battery TERMINALS (directly) and do the test again.
90 % of a time, this condition is caused by corroded connection points at the battery.
Also, a battery can have a bad internal connection. I have seen this happen a lot. Usually this battery will pass all load tests and fails intermittently. You may also notice unusual idle RPM variations (AC must be off).
I like that idea. Thank you.
Yes- this is similar to "honey, turn the lights on" - then crank the starter, if the lights don't dim- you have high resistance connections to/from the battery... i.e. dirty connectors.
Very good breakdown! Keeping it simple... you brought it down to the basics! Nice!
you didn't open the door after shutting the car off, so it stayed "alive" for the "infotainment" system, as you opened the door it went to sleep/power down mode. don't know how many times they've got me that way... I like old school key off draw off, stupendous new junk
I love me a good refresher on the basics Ivan; keeps me sharp! 😁
Very well explained. I have never heard the term parasitic drain. Basically, it's a drain on the battery when the car is asleep and their shouldn't be one.
Thank you! Yup some cars have insomnia haha
Great video. I blew my fuse only to now find your video on how to do this correctly.
I really like this watch more than once video. Its all the extra ideas of what to expect from the alternator system. I have also been using a topdon tester for its internal resistance of the battery.
Awesome awesome knowledge sharing in a way that everyone can understand.
Brilliant video, thanks.
One other thing I always look for with a charge fault is battery light operation, obviously it should go off once the engine starts and alternator begins to charge the system, but you can get a flickering light or a very dim batt light.
Also, with the draw test, I use a jump cable to extend the cars wiring across negative side, then attach my dvom to batt negative-wire loom negative lock the vehicle, remove one jump clamp so the current runs through meter only, I find this reduces loss of contact with meter, I have replaced a few 2A fuses. 🤬🤬
Great video and explanation. That finger erase on the whiteboard pissed me off though 🤣
Worth noting that different vehicles will have different optimal charging voltage ranges. My car for example requires 14.3V-14.7V. Excellent diagnostic work.
Good stuff Ivan. Ive been doing alot off back to basics troubleshooting and this info really helps. Its awesome how much you can troubleshoot with basic tools just by loading the battery and measuring voltage drop. Also measuring alternator charging with the amp clamp to see if the battery is accepting the charge. I bought an Astro amp clamp/mm and a standard multimeter to measure inline amps. They work great and are affordable. Ive learned alot watching your vids and you inspired me to experiment with inexpensive oscilloscopes to up my diagnostics game. I also use an xtool d8 scan tool. Ive become pretty dangerous with your help😂 Thx
i simply do it with a voltmeter, if with the lights and heater fan and you still get more than 14.2v engine running, then its the battery, modern cars the parasitic draw has to be done several times over hours of turning the car off, they often draw power for an hour or so for things.
high beams, blower on high, A/C on so cooling fans run, want more load add in a cheapo "100amp load tester"
like other have stated electricity flows from negative to positive but other than that good video.. ive noticed with a voltmeter hooked up and a load applied when you release the load the voltage comes back to a certain point. watch your meter it should continue to creep up in voltage. if it doesnt then the battery is no longer chemically active and able to recover. i've spotted many a battery like this and they all failed shortly after.
"Current" is the word for rate-of-flow of charge, not rate of flow of electrons. In the common case of current in wires, charge movement is due to electrons carrying that negative charge, and will be in the direction from negative battery terminal to positive. This is a negative current from negative to positive which is identical to a positive current from positive to negative.
My battery fully charged is around 12.7xV - leave it overnight goes down to 12.2x so lost .5 of a V over night, checked for draw, car goes to sleep after 5-10 mins and draw moves from 500 mA to 30mA within 10 mins, I have to do one final test, I will lock the doors and latch the hood and activate the alarm and see how much it draws then with the security system on. Here's the kicker though, it still done the same with the battery disconnected so I'm suspecting I have a voltage leak on the battery. The battery is new but was running with a 3AMP draw before it diagnosed for a about a week or so, this may have damaged the new battery but that's what I suspect at the moment, I will test it with the lights on and see how quick it drops, great vid
NAPA Legend, nice. hopefully you got a good one. i got burned by that brand.
the battery would take a charge and hold voltage while cranking but would die after a few days.
almost replaced the alternator but figured out the battery was internally shorted. it was like having a parasitic draw inside the battery. the damn thing was always slightly warm, even sitting.
I've had good luck with Napa batteries. They have lasted at least 8 years each on my own vehicles :)
you must keep them charged and not leave lights on overnight.
in fairness, i don't know the history of my particular battery, just I spent way too much time figuring out it was bad:)
Great video, I learn something new every time I watch your troubleshooting videos!!!
Ivan,i have a very old Christie battery tester that will check alternator output and also put a load on the battery by pushing a button,it works GREAT,and i use a vom to check for parasitic draws,i dont think Christie is around any more!!
The best way I have found to test a battery that is not sealed is with a hydrometer. It looks like an antifreeze tester. I use a temperature compensated handheld refratometer. One bad call will kill a battery because it is always drawing on itself to bring all cells up to an equilibrium.
Great video... what would of been nice is a comparison between new and old battery of the discharge and recovery rate with loads on/off. What I’d like to see if it’s possible to run that old battery completely flat and see if you can reverse charge it turning negative terminal into positive terminal. 👍🏻👍🏻
Just measured my Opel insignias battery with 5 years old battery, CCA 723, original 800. That is actually really good.
4:15 12.6 to 10v just by turning the key on = battery shot.
12:50 amp clamp on pos or neg cable. 14:22 get car running with boost, disconnect, then see how long it takes for current to drop to zero/sleep. 19:35 battery drained from 12.x to 9.x in 5 seconds with headlights on, dead. 20:37 alternator good.
22:25 0.2 amp draw is still substantial, but 0.1 amp is not foolproof due to tool's margin of error. 23:22 the only way to know 100% is to hookup multi in series with either terminal without disconnecting the battery/waking car (and risk blowing a fuse on reconnect).
I like your explanation of battery operation it’s simple for any diy guy to get his/her head around each cell in battery is 2.1 volt six cells equals 12.6 volt which is where the base voltage comes from you are also correct in sulfates they insulate a percentage of the conductive plates and even if you have 2.1 volts from the cell contributing to overall voltage output it’s easy to see if you have one cell cooked and conductive plate 50% insulated by sulphate it diminishes current capacity on the one cell by 50% your looking at 10% reduction in current capacity just on one cell an as cells generally insulate the same in each cell just 50% reduction in capacity across six cells means a 500 cca battery is reduced to 250 cca maybe just enough to start a ride on lawn mower asked on the symptoms during your testing I would say you have 65-70% suphate insulation well and truly done that battery is cooked , but I have had some success in rejuvenating less cooked batteries by reversing electron flow in micro bursts if battery too far gone then it doesn’t work but 30% or less it works well
Good discription Ivan. I’ve usually heard you can have a cell or a few go bad and the battery is shot. It only takes a few. Or with a battery that has been discharged for a long time the cells can sulfate. Hard to bring back if it’s been in that state too long. Usually if a battery goes bad it’s one of two things. A parasitic draw or an aged battery that’s worn out.
That car makes your garage look big. That was a great lesson Ivan. I'll be second guessing my battery tester now. Thanks for confusing me. (ha ha) Not really, your explanation coupled with the visuals made perfect sense. The horn scared me but it made me laugh too.
thanx for breaking this down. Its nice to see the electrical physics theory applied to a case.
I bought a napa battery to relace a diehard sears battery that was good for 8 years the Napa battery died after leaving the care for 2days unused took it back and they gave me another battery it did the same thing, so I tought that there must be parasitic draw hooded up the amp clamp as your explaination and I did not see any high draw Napa was good to replaced the batterythe second time and it was good but what I did and not take any chance of blowing this battery I bought a trickle charger and hooked up every time I left the car in the garage and so far so good no problem with the battery. I still think there is some kinda draw that I havn't figured out. my car is 1988 Honda accord lxi. thanks Ivan.
Last time I bought a new battery it was for my 2012 Infiniti FX 50S. I checked the manufacturing dates of all available batteries at the shop. The most recent one was manufactured 3 months prior to my purchase, so I bought that one. The original battery lasted about 6 years, and died suddenly without pre-warning after a 15 minutes visit to my local petrol station. So it will be interesting to see how long the new one lasts. My guess is 3-4 years in the climate where I live now. That was the typical battery life when I lived in similar conditions in South Africa. 😊
Awesome. I put a battery saver in my DLC and it give power and ground temporarily till i hook the new battery up. All my ready monitors stay complete as well
AWESOME info Ivan, thanks for what you do by showing us the correct way to look in charging system. cheeeeers
Great class! Better than my electrical class at UTI.
And free of charge 👌😁
I actually really like this video. Great teacher moment. You did it in a simple way for me to understand. Thanks
Cool! Glad you enjoyed it Jesse!
Really good video Ivan. Enjoyed.
Regarding jump starting using battery packs: If you were jump starting a large 6 or V8 engine and the Noko didn’t have enough beans to crank the engine on its own, could you use it together with another cars battery in a piggyback fashion to safely crank the engine?
As long as all the batteries are connected in PARALLEL you should be OK. I have had to resort to that trick more than once!
Well I learned a heck of a lot today. I'm quite sure I can find what is draining my battery (brand new) now. Thanks for a great video.
29:37 it probably sounded loud because of the huge 20 bay garage you have. Great stuff
Thanks Ivan. Just in time before cold weather sets in too!
I bought a battery disconnect tool from Walmart that makes the parasitic draw test easier.
Nice video. I got a understanding of the concept.
Question. Is the voltage test for the alternator sufficient to determine it's health ? Like do we have to measure how many amps it's putting out to the battery, car accessories, etc?
I wish I were as smart as you Ivan. Way to go. Super excellent amazing job man.
Tanks Jeremy, always appreciate your positive comments :)
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics your welcome. You deserve it
Ha ha you said it would only take 5 minutes😂😂 Great video! Whiteboard of knowledge!💪
"learning" always takes longer than "doing" ;)
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Ha ha i know😉
you have to make reference to your " AMAZING ARTISTIC SKILLS" before using the white board of knowledge
I seem to recall from watching one of Erics charging videos about the pcm controlling the charge in some newer cars and in the old days we had a metal box on the firewall called a regulator which sometimes went bad before the batt. How is a pcm different from a reg on an alternator. We'd occasionally take one of the old metal firewall regs apart but it seemed to have some crude electrics a few contact posts and a wire wound resistor of some kind. Never really sure how it sensed a full battery. Actually those firewall regs were back in the day of generators. Great vid! Thanks!!
Some of the PCM-controlled systems will do things like decrease charging while accelerating to remove the load from the engine, and increase charging while decelerating to use some of the vehicle's momentum to charge the battery. All in pursuit of better fuel economy.
Back in the day the first thing to check was if the battery had enough water. Still a valid thing to check on most batteries.
as always ,great and helpful video,actually tomorrow i had a case just like your car but i'm pretty sure mine has parasitic draw issue ,because the owner said the battery has been changed 3 times with new one🙂
Will be using this class today my wife’s truck does the same thing as this car thank you so much
Those capacitance testers that battery dealers use place a lot of emphasis on the open-circuit voltage of the battery. If the open-circuit voltage is 12.5-12.6, the battery is deemed "good". If the voltage is 12-12.4, it will read "good, recharge". Below 12 volts, and you'll get a "bad" reading. I tested a lot of batteries with 12.6 open-circuit voltage but only 50-100 CCA measured on the tester. The tester said "good, recharge" but my knowledge told me the battery was junk. The carbon pile tester confirmed my diagnosis. I may be old-fashioned, but the best way to test batteries is with a carbon pile load tester, because it tests under real-world conditions. I guess they don't use them much anymore because they require skill to use properly.
Hi Ivan - top notch testing buddy. As a top tech myself :) I have seen 12.6 and its a bad battery . In my experience people never change their battery till it causes a no crank :) Now a computer controlled alternator is something much different and testing is much different with a whole new set of variables - oh I don't like that word it's like a little bit pregnant. Cheers bud and hope alls well .
Computer controlled alternator diagnosis would be interesting video.
A little bit pregnant lmao!
Hi Steve! Good to hear from you! Hey I'm heading across the border into Canada this week to visit the GM St Catharines engine plant :)And this was a computer-controlled alternator BTW haha
Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics So that would explain it all, I knew there was something going on . Have fun in Canada , if they arrest you at the border give me a call . 😂😂🇨🇦
I use UNI-T UT210E True RMS Mini-Clamp Meter(VoltCraft VC-330), they have tested accuracy of 0,010 A.Great tool to parasitic draws finding.
I was just going to mention this. I just got one of these, and at $45 it's a no brainer to have in your toolbox.
Wow 45 bucks? What's the catch?
It's not a Fluke. ;) The only drawback it has for me it's that there's no Min/Max. But we can use the scope for that. It's a great sidekick unit to accompany your main meter. Great for quick stuff, goes up to 200 amps and down to 1 milliamp. Likely not that accurate down there but for parasitic draws it's fine enough. I also use it on 240v for checking on my usage at my panel for my generator (South Florida). The jaws are big enough to close around a 4/0 wire. At that price (if it's still there), everyone should have one.
You'll have a heart attack with the cost of my Fluke 325 :D but I love and trust it more than the normal retail shite you can buy.
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics No catch really! I own one of those and they are worth every penny. They are sensitive enough to read earth's magnetic field variations, that is why you should reset clamps in the orientation you will be clamping onto cables. Some people have even tapped into the circuit board to use this clamp as a current clamp for a scope (not really good or worth doing). Perfect tool for any kind of non intrusive circuit check, parasitic draw chasing, etc.
I like your explanation on how the positive charges move to the negative and 6 charges x 2.1vdc = 12.6vdc. However, If 5 charges are gone, how does the battery (at 2.1vdc) charge back up to 12vdc?
I am envious of your math skills, amazing
I have a strange feeling that vehicle has a power distribution block issue or an ECU issue as the ECU's have a way to control the alternator based off of temps airconditioning load and rpm's because of the facts that all my newer vehicles above 2005 take a long time for the keep alive memory inside the ECU to draindown if I dont turn the key on and try to start the vehicle aswell as hit the brake pedal and turn on the headlight switch to drain off the charge held with-in faster it takes between 15-20 mins to do a regular keep alive memory drainoff down to dead zero at disconnect and when I saw instant drainoff it immediately caught my eye...
Excellent tutorial, very well explained and extremely informative 👏 keep up the good work.
Nice job Ivan
Man that white board makes me feel like I am watching one of Matt's videos. Except you draw neater!
haha wonder what Matt is up to these days...
Using a Snap-on Bat-Alt-Starter tester, you can load test the charging system, engine running of course, load test the battery, engine off, and watch the charging system with the engine running. You need the DMM for voltage drop checks to make sure the charging system is getting amperage to the battery and no voltage drop is happening.
Those capacity battery testers do not load test the battery! A load test is the starter cranking the engine. The Snap-on tester does that. Those parts house testers can't do that.
Or you can just turn on the headlights for a few minutes... Don't tell Snap on I said that haha
Ivan can you please do more videos like this for example the basics like how to know when and where you can check amps and reading diagrams to check continuity and just overall basic checks of sensors and wiring ?
That sounds like a series of 10 videos! I was thinking of doing one on cooling system diagnostics and how to pinpoint the possible failures without guessing :)
“This 1.2 liter fire breather” I died hahaha
How do you check if the parasite is the alternator
To do the test your doing you should start with a charged battery in case the modules or other devices dont respond to a low voltage to turn on and draw current.
May still experience a slight current draw on the DVOM due to remote entry running in standby for key fob remote response on some vehicles.
Thank you so much for the video and drawing it out it was very easy easier to understand the way you just showed it thank you love it please keep it up
This is an excellent video. I'll watch it a bunch of times until I got it all 100%. If cars vary on how long it takes all the modules to "go to sleep" after turning off the engine, how long should we continue to monitor the amperage draw before we can be sure it is a parasitic draw? PS I would love to see a follow-up video to this one!
Wait at least an hour. Sometimes new EVAP systems can run test for many hours!