Kudos to the the maker of the video, love it. My only comment is that the Klingon's didn't act like Klingons. The second the Shadow Vessel showed up and started firing the other 2 D7's would have immediately returned fire. Cross universe physics and technology is hard to guess at but these Klingons felt like they were more Federation in the response (running, evading, trying to figure out what was happening).
Cowards, the lot of them. They deserve to be on the Barge to Gre'thor for their lack of aggression. After the first ship exploded, the Left Wing ship broke left, and had every opportunity to reverse its turn and start laying into the Shadow ship while it followed the Right Wing ship.
Agreed and those D7's also had decent shields, seriously doubt Shadow weapons would overcome them. Shadow ships were fighting other ships with no shield tech in their universe. Borg cubes would shrug the Shadows off like fleas. They sure wouldn't assimilate them... they would be kinda like the Kazon equivalent to the Borg. ;)
@@Thurgosh_OG I agree....Shadow weapons are seriously powerful, I think the Klingon shields in this video were quite accurate for what would have happened. These D style ships are older than the D7 for sure - (IMHO D7 could withstand a couple of hits but really 24th Century ships are required to have a decent chance )
... and the Shadows didn't act like Shadows. The Shadow vessel would have lined up and "beam straffed" at least 2 of the Klingon ships as soon as they uncloaked. Happened several times in the B5 show. So within 3 seconds of the first shot, it would have went from 3 vs 1 to 1 vs 1 ... and given a photon torpedo (according to the STTNG manual) has a damage output of about 65 megatons (1.5 kg of mater and 1.5kg of anti-mater) and the Vorlon and Shadows shields can withstand up to 2 gigatons of damage, the Stadow would just sit there and laugh at the first 10 or 12 torpedo hits.
If we knew the various ship’s power output and shield strength, a simulation would be possible. That said, beautifully done, looks polished and professional
The shadow vessels have strong armor and no shields and are designed to be dispensable. They are literally dronews controlled by an enslave frontal cortex. The Kling ships have rear mounted torpedos, shields and an aggressive nature. The klingons would shoot first and ask questions later and would win an engagement 3 to 1. Even in the show the vorlon shields were very effective against the shadow beam weapon, but only their largest ships were shielded. Klingon tech is between the mimbari and vorlon. They'd fare much better than we see here.
Yeah, they should have been firing rear torpedoes as soon as the Shadow decloaked. Early D7s did not have cloaking devices, but these did. Why were they flying around uncloaked? Photon torpedoes are supposed to be hard to dodge, they don't move like slow plasma torpedoes, though they got slower between TOS and TNG.
One thing I have seen over and over is the speed difference. Just about every other Sci-Fi has Star Trek beat in the strategic speed, much faster FTL speeds. But they do it in either Hyperspace, Wormholes, or Jump Points. Few can do FTL in normal space. There in normal space Star Trek ships have a huge advantage in they can move at healthy fractions of light speed with Impulse Drives. Or even FTL in normal space. Most other Sci-Fi would not have developed sensors to track FTL craft in real space as they would see it as impossible and therefore impractical as no ship moves faster than light in their universes. Most don't even move at low fractions of light speed. Moving at Impulse Speeds of normal cruise 0.25 to 0.5 (according to Star Trek books) would still blow past most other Sci-Fi craft. Combine this with other Sci-Fi not being able to hit targets that can literally fly faster than their beam weapons can go, means the Star Trek ships could strike with near impunity. And those photon torpedoes can move at FTL speeds as well. What that means in normal space is you would not see the Star Trek ship launch torpedoes until after those torpedoes hit you. According to some of the early Star Trek Next Generation books Warp Factor was the cube root of the multiple of light speed. Meaning Warp 9 was 729 times the speed of light. Moving at that speed even for one second, torpedoes don't carry a lot of fuel, still gives you a range of around 219,000,000 km. Well outside even the Shadow's maximum engagement range. So those remaining two D7's would have hit he engines to gain some distance to assess the threat after the first one was blown up. Seeing the Shadow could not pursue as fast or engage them at range, they would have stood off and blasted it with torpedoes. Or the D7's would of just instantly fired photon torpedo's from there aft torpedo launchers and the shadow vessel would literally be vaporised with a single shot at that range, and I do mean vaporised without shields. Maybe one D7 could of been destroyed taken by surprise but never more than that as the shadows life expectancy would be seconds because of the response of the other two D7's. A Klingon bird of prey with cloaking technology, shields, impulse engines at sub light speeds with sub light targeting sensors to match and photon torpedo's with competent commander could take on unlimited shadow vassals at will and would be an intergalactic turkey shoot. With a Klingon bird of prey and unlimited supply of torpedo's you would rule the B5 universe in the name of the empire with an iron fist. Ands that's not even exploring just beaming warheads and high yield bombs on board enemy ships while cloaked.
The Shadows...a truly undervalued bad-guy in sci-fi. That was awesome though. I loved it and would love a B5 reboot. As for the battle, let's not forget that a small contingent of Shadow ships (3-4 I think it was) destroyed a fleet of Narn warships, a space station and then laid in ambush for Narn reinforcements. The Shadows took no damage. Good battle!
Hey! Remember the Shadows are just misunderstood. Some maintain the Shadows think THEY are the good guys in spite of their deeds. And to some fans that is excuse enough.
@@richardbutton1179 Shadows and Vorlons are overall on the same tier technologically. They both came just after the first ones, Lorien's race, and have been space-fairing species for millions of years. Delenne: "The Shadows were old when even the Ancients were young. They battled each other over and over across a million years." It is difficult to match-up technology between two universes, but we do see some comparisons. The Shadow vessels' control system is basically the perfected technology used in ST:TOS's M5 unit. In that episode, one Constitution class mopped the floor against 4 other Constitutions. Having one central brain control the whole ship does provide a heck of an advantage in response times.
🖖😎👍Very cool and very greatly nicely well done and executed in every detail way shape and form provided on this format and production a very fabulous job indeed Sir!👌.
Until the Klingons show up with their biogenic weapons and pepper the whole system with it, killing any Shadow ships for lightyears that passes through. If Star Trek has taught us anything, it's that the Klingons are a persistent bunch.
It's been too long since I've watched B5 for me to comment on whether or not the Klingons should have fared better, but the cinematography and music are awesome! I loved the Shadows' POV shot. Well done!
The Klingons are peer adversaries to 23rd-24th century humanity - the shadows have MILLIONS of years of technological development beyond. If anything their advantage is being toned down here to provide more drama.
But they do. They're just skin tight - they can be seen when the Vorlon frigates/dds were taking them out, you could see them. Good enough to withstand several seconds of Vorlon weapons fire which is pretty damned good. Again, we are talking technology MILLIONS of years beyond Star Trek. Still, it'd be cool to watch.
I, on the other hand, watch and rewatch B5 and Star Trek all the time. The level of technology represented imagined in Star Trek is far beyond anything imagined in B5, even among the advanced races, such as the Shadows and the Vorlons. Sorry, but that Shadow vessel would have been toast. Unable to penetrate Klingon shielding technology the Shadow vessels possess no such defenses. Klingon disruptors would have chewed them up with the first salvo. B5 developers never imagined any weaponry beyond highly advanced lasers. Disruptor and phaser technology represents weaponry several generations more advanced.
Well done! The music built up the suspense nicely. I thought the cloaking would have kept the Klingon ship safe. Visuals very well done. Nothing was hurried along.
The technology of the Shadows is somewhat higher than the Borg from what can be understood. That said, in no way would the Klingons end without causing some damage. I've read the other comments, and understand where the author of this EXCELLENT work stands. I 👏 seriously great special effects. For lack of neutrality in it, not so much. Star Trek vs Star Wars is another equal battle. The Death Star technology would jump near a Federation world and blow it to hell! Yet I know Starfleet ships otherwise have superior weapons and shields. Tie fighters have no chance against Federation Starships. Same here? No. Shadow vessels would turn ethereal and torpedoes would pass harmlessly. But phasers? Disruptor fire? Those would cause damage. In the end, the Klingon fleet would still be destroyed, but not without giving a bloody nose to the Shadow vessels! IMAO.
Curious where did you get your information that the shadow technology is more advanced then the Borg. I think since they are two different universes with completely different technologies. I find highly unlikely there is Imperial data to back up that statement. At best I think that is just opinion. But it was still entertaining to watch.
The shadows are billions of years old and have guided entire galaxies to grow the way they want them to in conflict with the vorlons....I get star trek fans don't like this fact but shadow technology is so far advanced of anything they see itd be a really one way fight....the issue with star trek is that they always produce one off technologies to win the episode making their tech impossible to measure as they always have the miracle get out of jail clause, whilst b5 is grounded in a world where this kind of thing doesn't happen.
Even if they are different. Different species develop at different rates and levels. So even if the Shadows are millions of years old. That does not make them more technologically advanced by default. You could also argue all species are millions of years old. They developed through evolution. Are you saying that the Shadows have stagnated as a species and are no longer evolving. If so that would mean they are a species in decline or maybe on the verge of going extinct. How old you are as a species has nothing to do with your technological development. Alligators are millions of years old and I don't see them flying around in starships. The dinosaurs lived for 100s of millions of years and I don't see evidence of a dinosaur star empire out their. Nor is their any evidence to support that they were remarkably intelligent.
I feel the main issue with any verses scenario is we just don't have the information needed to actually do them. Like the mentioned Star Trek vs. Star Wars match ups, depending on who you uses as a source turbolasers have a power out put of way below Star Trek, all the way up to vaporize the Enterprise in a single shot, as we don't have a single cannon source to go by.... As one physicist, who was a Star Wars geek, estimated how much energy it would take to blow up the asteroid in "The Empire Strikes Back" that a Star destroyer blew up, the turbolaser had to have about 6700 terajoules per shot, while in Star Trek TNG's episode "The Survivors" the Enterprise's shield were taking down completely by what Worf said was 400 gigawatts of particle energy. A gigawatt is equal to a gigajoule, and 1 terawatt is 1000 gigawatt, a single turbolaser has 16,750 times the energy it take to break through the shields of the Enterprise... which is insane, but that is why Star Trek is called Science Fiction while Star Wars is a Space Fantasy, one follows science rules and bends them, the other just makes stuff up ie. a fantasy.
As primarily a Trek fan, it always seems in these hybrid-show battles, the Trek technology is always way outclassed by everyone else's slipstream drives, hyperspeed drives, wormholes (all better than warp drive), bigger ships, turbo-weapons, etc. To me, a bigger ship isn't a better ship, a bigger gun isn't necessarily a better gun, etc. I guess it just depends on who's making the video...a Trek fan, a Star Wars fan, a B5 fan, a Stargate fan, etc. Don't get me wrong, I love all these shows. But, I guess, to me, Trek has space technology that is better thought out and a bit more believable than the other show's space technology.
you're right trek has better well rounded ships for example they are more like swiss army knives of sci fi ships. they got tools for every situation and are specialists at nothing. so while other sci fi ships have better engines and stuff. they got crap shields. or other ships have good weapons but they got crap sensors. basically star trek ships and crew can basically use one of their most feared weapons. technobabble jiu jitsu.
@@joeswanson733 One thing I have seen over and over is the speed difference. Just about every other Sci-Fi has Star Trek beat in the strategic speed, much faster FTL speeds. But they do it in either Hyperspace, Wormholes, or Jump Points. Few can do FTL in normal space. There in normal space Star Trek ships have a huge advantage in they can move at healthy fractions of light speed with Impulse Drives. Or even FTL in normal space. Most other Sci-Fi would not have developed sensors to track FTL craft in real space as they would see it as impossible and therefore impractical as no ship moves faster than light in their universes. Most don't even move at low fractions of light speed. Moving at Impulse Speeds of normal cruise 0.25 to 0.5 (according to Star Trek books) would still blow past most other Sci-Fi craft. Combine this with other Sci-Fi not being able to hit targets that can literally fly faster than their beam weapons can go, means the Star Trek ships could strike with near impunity. And those photon torpedoes can move at FTL speeds as well. What that means in normal space is you would not see the Star Trek ship launch torpedoes until after those torpedoes hit you. According to some of the early Star Trek Next Generation books Warp Factor was the cube root of the multiple of light speed. Meaning Warp 9 was 729 times the speed of light. Moving at that speed even for one second, torpedoes don't carry a lot of fuel, still gives you a range of around 219,000,000 km. Well outside even the Shadow's maximum engagement range. So those remaining two D7's would have hit he engines to gain some distance to assess the threat after the first one was blown up. Seeing the Shadow could not pursue as fast or engage them at range, they would have stood off and blasted it with torpedoes.
I'm not to sure about this one, of a couple of Narn ships can damage or destroy a Shadow vessel I doubt a D7 would have much difficulty, the Klingons are way more advanced than the Narn, the Narn don't even have gravity on their ships, or shields, and they use fusion for power, it's highly unlikely that the Narn have weapons that are more powerful than the weapons that the Klingons have.
SpacialKatana has a strong love for all things Shadow and a particular dislike for all things Star Trek and Star Wars. He uses his formidable skills with animation to remind us peasants of this. XD
The shadows are an ancient race who had long since perfected their weaponry. They would be even more powerful than the Borg so it is not hard to imagine them handing the Klingons their posteriors.
@@jamesricker3997 If that was the case, which it isn't, then the instance where two Narn heavy cruisers damaged a Shadow vessel wouldn't have happened.
@@timgreen6072 I think in this case, the Shadow anticipated being fired upon and took evasive action. Love the Klingon ships, but they were no match for the shadow. I'm surprised they didn't warp away.
@@bondgabebond4907 within the universe of Babylon 5 there is the troublesome rule that states that it requires a large amount of energy to make hyperspace jumps, this fact negates any form of being able to make hyperspace jumps in quick succession! Even the Vorlons must adhere to this rule, and the Shadows are not exempt. At no time in B5 was it ever shown that anyone was able to do so. Also, there was never a time when the Shadows ever partially phased into hyperspace to avoid any hostile fire, this is why I used the example of the Narn heavy cruisers managing to severely damage a Shadow vessel.
@@bondgabebond4907 I disagree about the Klingons being outmatched. B5 and Star Trek are two entirely different universes and the results of any encounters between these two civilizations is entirely subjective.
The Shadow's energy beam weapon would rip right through the Klingons shields, but the Klingon's photon torpedoes could cause massive damage to the Shadow vessel. (The battle would probably be a tie, or one Klingon ship surviving.) -- Two of the Klingon ships would immediately cloak after the first one was destroyed. They would then flank the Shadow vessel and uncloak firing their photon torpedoes. The Shadow ship would likely destroy another Klingon ship, leaving the last Klingon ship a clear shot with it's disruptors and more torpedoes.
Shadow ship can sense occupants shield wont cloak that. Shadow ship took direct hits from multiple Narn energy mines - doubtful a torpedo would destroy it. The only thing in b 5 that was observed as to be able to stop the shadow death ray from further slicing was the organic vorlon tentacle from their dreadnought. A shadow vessel could likely intercept the relatively slow moving torpedos with is main ray.
You are assuming that shadows get their scanners from the same outfit that the federation buys from ! Chances are that the Shadows will just say nice visual effect, fire the main guns and hit the their target
One thing I have seen over and over is the speed difference. Just about every other Sci-Fi has Star Trek beat in the strategic speed, much faster FTL speeds. But they do it in either Hyperspace, Wormholes, or Jump Points. Few can do FTL in normal space. There in normal space Star Trek ships have a huge advantage in they can move at healthy fractions of light speed with Impulse Drives. Or even FTL in normal space. Most other Sci-Fi would not have developed sensors to track FTL craft in real space as they would see it as impossible and therefore impractical as no ship moves faster than light in their universes. Most don't even move at low fractions of light speed. Moving at Impulse Speeds of normal cruise 0.25 to 0.5 (according to Star Trek books) would still blow past most other Sci-Fi craft. Combine this with other Sci-Fi not being able to hit targets that can literally fly faster than their beam weapons can go, means the Star Trek ships could strike with near impunity. And those photon torpedoes can move at FTL speeds as well. What that means in normal space is you would not see the Star Trek ship launch torpedoes until after those torpedoes hit you. According to some of the early Star Trek Next Generation books Warp Factor was the cube root of the multiple of light speed. Meaning Warp 9 was 729 times the speed of light. Moving at that speed even for one second, torpedoes don't carry a lot of fuel, still gives you a range of around 219,000,000 km. Well outside even the Shadow's maximum engagement range. So those remaining two D7's would have hit he engines to gain some distance to assess the threat after the first one was blown up. Seeing the Shadow could not pursue as fast or engage them at range, they would have stood off and blasted it with torpedoes.
@@fozzy1004 Star Trek impulse speeds are less "realistic" than other scifi universes. No account for inertia, just wash it all away with inertial damping fields and artificial gravity.
I'd say somebody is a little bias towards the Babylon 5 Universe. Lol One we have no idea how well the Shadow weapon would work against Klingon shields. Nor do we know if they could detect the Klingons while cloaked. Nor do we know how the Shadow ship would hold up against disrupter fire. That being said it was a nice video.
The Shadow ship can be injured, yes, injured as in a living organism. Another Shadow ship will hook up with the injured ship and take it home for healing. Great show Babylon 5 is.
Once again by what technical information do you base this on. I don't know of any information to support that claim. Except that you feel that the beams could penetrate the Klingon shields. That does not make for a legitimate argument. Just because we wish or feel something to be true does not make it so. Show some kind of empirical evidence to support your claim.
@@codysteel8245 I said "I'd say" which is A GUESS. There IS no empirical info we can use otherwise this conversation couldn't exist. But we know that Star Trek vessels can lose their shields with overwhelming batteries and the closest weapon we've seen to a Shadow beam is the Borg beam the Collective used to penetrate the shields and carve out a section of the Enterprise in "Deja Q." So I am GUESSING that Shadow vessels could penetrate the shields LIKE THE Borg beam weapon did after, say, 5-6 seconds of impact just because of how effective they are at delivering high payloads of energy in narrow fields. That would do devastating drainage on shield emitters by concentrating strain in a fixed area instead of distributing across the membrane. I figured you'd remember all these details yourself and figure it out by my description. I'm surprised you needed me to recap it.
I am inclined to agree with you Cody. I have been a fan of both universes, but come on... 3 Klingon ships can't take down one Shadow vessel? have the Shadows not heard of the Kobiashi Maru?
Oh c'mon now! I can see Kahless spinning in his grave over this insult! Surely the Klingons could have at least scratched the shadow vessel! LOL great vid, very enjoyable.
One thing I have seen over and over is the speed difference. Just about every other Sci-Fi has Star Trek beat in the strategic speed, much faster FTL speeds. But they do it in either Hyperspace, Wormholes, or Jump Points. Few can do FTL in normal space. There in normal space Star Trek ships have a huge advantage in they can move at healthy fractions of light speed with Impulse Drives. Or even FTL in normal space. Most other Sci-Fi would not have developed sensors to track FTL craft in real space as they would see it as impossible and therefore impractical as no ship moves faster than light in their universes. Most don't even move at low fractions of light speed. Moving at Impulse Speeds of normal cruise 0.25 to 0.5 (according to Star Trek books) would still blow past most other Sci-Fi craft. Combine this with other Sci-Fi not being able to hit targets that can literally fly faster than their beam weapons can go, means the Star Trek ships could strike with near impunity. And those photon torpedoes can move at FTL speeds as well. What that means in normal space is you would not see the Star Trek ship launch torpedoes until after those torpedoes hit you. According to some of the early Star Trek Next Generation books Warp Factor was the cube root of the multiple of light speed. Meaning Warp 9 was 729 times the speed of light. Moving at that speed even for one second, torpedoes don't carry a lot of fuel, still gives you a range of around 219,000,000 km. Well outside even the Shadow's maximum engagement range. So those remaining two D7's would have hit he engines to gain some distance to assess the threat after the first one was blown up. Seeing the Shadow could not pursue as fast or engage them at range, they would have stood off and blasted it with torpedoes.
Excellent analysis, spot on, although I doubt photon torpedoes would have any effect on Shadow ships. FWIW, the idea that warp speeds were the cubes of warp numbers was first introduced in the Star Trek Starfleet Technical Manual, by Franz Joseph, published in 1975. Next Gen canon showed that, whatever warp numbers might have meant in TOS, the 24th century was operating at far greater speeds for any given warp number with warp 10 being an unachievable infinite speed.
@@odysseusrex5908 I think the photon torpedoes would. They are anti-matter weapons, each holding an actual amount of anti-matter to annihilate with the matter of the torpedo itself. This causes an incredibly powerful explosion and direct energy release. Even a proximity hit would seriously hurt a Shadow vessel if 2 X-Ray lasers in the low megaton range could kill one with sustained fire of only about 20 seconds.
@@odysseusrex5908 In all good things.... They achieve Warp 13, though there many source that default that from the ST Voy episode where Warp 10 folded space., then developing Slip Stream technology, to move even faster in a fraction of the time.
Actually your right, by jove, b5 they all had to use jump gates and had no FTL, a distinct advantage. Which means they could have pulled a picard maneuver and blew the shadow out of the sky
Why is it in EVERY one of these Shadow vs ST ships the torpedo's ALWAYS miss? They travel at near light speed when launched so there's NO WAY a shadow ship would be able to just simply twerk itself one way and not take a hit plus PTs are self guiding and dont miss unless the object is cloaked or luckily makes a last second course correction. But when launched they attacking vessel is usualy at a close enough range where the later isnt possible. I think this battle would be much closer than the maker made it.
people really fail to understand how insanely powerful star trek universe ships and weapons and shields are. you are correct that photon torpedoes are relativistic weapons with giant warhead yields that can travel 2 light seconds in less than 3 or 4 seconds, so they would essentially hit as soon as they are launched and thus never miss. that doesn't look as cool on screen tho. regardless, those shadow battle crabs would not be able to penetrate shields and would be dispatched effortlessly by even one trek universe vessel. it sucks that star trek has never given us a really great ship battle. crappy writing and lack of imagination and budget limitations suck.
@@lvirag8401 Best ST battle was Yesterdays Enterprise but even it could have and was supposed to be better. It was supposed to be a 2 part show with part 1 showing the battle between the Enterprise C and the Romulan ships before entering the space rift. And a battle between the Enterprise D and Klingon ships at Archer 4 which Riker said "the pasting we gave them." Part 2 would feature the battle betwee the Enterprise D and the 3 Klingon ships and it was supposed to be longer and more intense. But the producers scrapped the idea. Bummer.
Phasers and torpedos MISS. That's just countermeasures, and cannon. The Shadows are King when it comes to that. You don't need shields when they don't know where you are and can't hit you.
@@smileydag as i said, y'all don't have the faintest idea how powerful the fake technology weapons and shields are in st. a single starfleet vessel would be an extinction level event for the shadows with little or no danger from shadow weapons , but it's all dumb tv so believe whatever nonsense you want as your own personal head canon. but phasers and photon torpedoes only miss because writers and sfx people are bad at their jobs and dummies lap it up anyway. anything that can hit a moving target one meter square at a lightsecond distance like st phasers can is not gonna miss. shadows go boom while the sf peesonnel done't even put their coffee down.
@@lvirag8401 Agreed. One thing I have seen over and over is the speed difference. Just about every other Sci-Fi has Star Trek beat in the strategic speed, much faster FTL speeds. But they do it in either Hyperspace, Wormholes, or Jump Points. Few can do FTL in normal space. There in normal space Star Trek ships have a huge advantage in they can move at healthy fractions of light speed with Impulse Drives. Or even FTL in normal space. Most other Sci-Fi would not have developed sensors to track FTL craft in real space as they would see it as impossible and therefore impractical as no ship moves faster than light in their universes. Most don't even move at low fractions of light speed. Moving at Impulse Speeds of normal cruise 0.25 to 0.5 (according to Star Trek books) would still blow past most other Sci-Fi craft. Combine this with other Sci-Fi not being able to hit targets that can literally fly faster than their beam weapons can go, means the Star Trek ships could strike with near impunity. And those photon torpedoes can move at FTL speeds as well. What that means in normal space is you would not see the Star Trek ship launch torpedoes until after those torpedoes hit you. According to some of the early Star Trek Next Generation books Warp Factor was the cube root of the multiple of light speed. Meaning Warp 9 was 729 times the speed of light. Moving at that speed even for one second, torpedoes don't carry a lot of fuel, still gives you a range of around 219,000,000 km. Well outside even the Shadow's maximum engagement range. So those remaining two D7's would have hit he engines to gain some distance to assess the threat after the first one was blown up. Seeing the Shadow could not pursue as fast or engage them at range, they would have stood off and blasted it with torpedoes. Or the D7's would of just instantly fired photon torpedo's from there aft torpedo launchers and the shadow vessel would literally be vaporised with a single shot at that range, and I do mean vaporised without shields. Maybe one D7 could of been destroyed taken by surprise but never more than that as the shadows life expectancy would be seconds because of the response of the other two D7's. A Klingon bird of prey with cloaking technology, shields, impulse engines at sub light speeds with sub light targeting sensors to match and photon torpedo's with competent commander could take on unlimited shadow vassals at will and be an intergalactic turkey shoot. With a Klingon bird of prey and unlimited supply of torpedo's you would rule the B5 universe in the name of the empire with an iron fist. Ands that's not even exploring just beaming warheads and high yield bombs on board ships while clocked.
@@SpacialKatana I'm a big B5 fan too and your animation is top-notch as always. Having said that, I don't see a Shadow vessel being able to take out even one Trek ship, let alone three. LOL
Great animation, but major misunderstanding on how well a Shadow vessel would do against 3 D-7s. Not even a Shadow's beam weapon would penetrate Klingon shields in less than probably 10 shots (Shadow's beam weapon is roughly equivalent to an Ori beam weapon). You're right in saying the Shadow vessel would get the drop on the first D7 and blow it up, but the other 2 D7s would cloak, coordinate their flanking attack and cut loose with their 20-pt KP-6 torpedos, and that would take only 3-4 photon hits to cripple or even destroy the Shadow. Shadow vessels cannot "phase out" to avoid torpedos--that's not possible by B5 canon. Tons of hard work on the illustration and graphics, though--and that by itself was nicely done.
Wrong. A photon torpedo (according to the STTNG manual) has a damage output of about 65 megatons (1.5 kg of mater and 1.5kg of anti-mater) and the Vorlon and Shadows shields can withstand over 2 gigatons of damage, the Shadow would just sit there and laugh at the first 10 or 12 torpedo hits.
While i would agree with the outcome of such an encounter, i somehow doubt those Shadows would attack them, but instead take them in as new client species. After all they have a very similar war philosophy.
Disagree. The Shadows stay hidden and prefer subterfuge, coming out only when a killing blow is needed that their servants cannot handle. The Romulans on the other hand, are far more similar in philosophy.
A Shadow vessel partially phases to avoid a hit from weapons fire? That's new! Only one Klingon used its shields or cloaking device? I doubt it. The Shadow vessel might have won over time against two Klingon ships but not three. Didn't two Narn vessels destroy a Shadow ship? And they didn't have shields!
While I thought the work was good, I seriously doubt the results of this engagement would have been as presented. As Klingons had cloaking devices, they also know how to fight against them. For the Shadow to get away undamaged is hard to believe.
Very well made video! It’s hard to say a “true” victor here. Two different styles of enemies, weapon systems and tactics. Personally, a fan of both, I feel the Klingons would have lost anyway. But, I would have liked to have seen at least one successful strike on the Shadow vessel with a 3:1 ratio. IMO
As we have all seen here and many times before. Shadows can phase partially out of the universe and weapons fly right through without damaging them. That is what makes them so badass.
These productions are so very good they are looking a bit odd to me, I am colour deficient and my colour cones and rods see a set colour differently so as I look at things they can flicker in colour. It means I can see subtle cgi implants in programs and the one thing I've worked out is that if its too clean (ie no blemish at all) and precise in its edges its cgi and most people will instinctively know. I have no idea if its possible but can you make the edges less perfect and the colours less solid to reflect reality a bit more? If not I'll carry on thoroughly enjoying your stuff! I particularly enjoyed the shields working and what looked like a more powerful beam from the shadows for longer as a result. I have also always wondered if the Shadows could phase into hyperspace.
Yes, the Shadows have to jump into hyperspace in order to travel FTL, just like all the other races of B5. But they seem to be able to do that without opening a visible jump gate like all the other races have to do. We've seen Shadow vessles traveling in B5's version of hyperspace in multiple episodes.
Excellent video and music score!! Thanks. The visuals were great. My only criticism would be that the Klingons would be more aggressive. Klingons tend to keep weapons charged and have fast recharge rates. As soon as the Shadow fired the first shot, the Klingons would've opened fire. In the end, I agree a Shadow cruiser would mop the floor with 3 Klingon cruisers.
The interesting thing about he Shadows is that they prefer to work...in the shadows. They try to find power hungry associates who want power and can help them with their agenda. I bet that if they ever had appeared in the Star Trek Universe, they would do great business with the Romulans.
Where to begin with this lets see. One the Shadows never demonstrated that they could use their jump to hyperspace as a tactic to avoid torpedoes. Yes they can jump in and out of regular space at a moments notice but never partial jump to have weapons fire become ineffective. The model for the Klingon ships is a bit of misnomer these looked like D5-D6's at best. Which didn't have cloak or torps firing from the front. I figure you were looking the upgraded D7 to a K'tinga class in reality. All that said the reason why the Shadow weapon works soo well is that in the B5 universe shielding like Trek ships is not there. So those beams slice right through the more primitive ships. Someone mentioned that the shadows are billion of years older and in fact they are but the better tech was still with the Klingons. Now saying all that I do think the Shadows could have won. At the cost of a nearly destroyed ship but yes they could have won. On the other hand the Klingons should have been in the fight much longer if not outright winning. That tactics of the Shadows here are nee ridiculous and the Klingon's were just plain stupid.
Why do futuristic weapons systems always miss? A race devoted to battle and cannot hit a giant ship. See it in most scifi. The only ones who don't miss are the shadows. 🐜
Love the mysterious approach of the Klingon Bird~of~Prey ships entering the planet that guarded by the Shadow Species & the educating us about the Powerful Lasers of the Shadow Ships ... 🌍
Those were not D7s....they looked older...more like 22nd Century Klingon ships. The only problem is the cloaking device which is 2268/9 onwards for the KDF
The only contention I would see is how Shadow weaponry would handle against shield technology, there was hardly any of that in B5 (except for the Thirdspace gate), so I think the battle would have carried on a bit more, at least a few more shots until the Shadow vessel would of course win, but maybe not totally unscathed... ;)
@@TheKingTywinLannister You just judge a culture by your standards that's the justification use to Exterminate real historical society. And if the Klingons were just brutal Neanderthals. They would have not built an empire.
I think the big thing is that the Klingons seemed to have no idea what they were about to encounter. Given the element of surprise I wouldn't blame them for losing. Now if the Klingons were prepared [with psychers especially] and somehow ambushed the Shadow craft then it's a super easy win for the Klingons.
@ Joseph Cope. You might really enjoy the Babylon 5 series (B5). Ever wonder why humans are generally afraid of spiders? Also, for something more "grounded", yet equally far fetched, read "Childhood's End" by Arthur C Clarke.
A warship from a race which was highly advanced and truly ancient well before the Klingon's home star first ignited, vs three ships from what amounts to space vikings... Went about like I would expect.
Nice job on the video. One of the better ones. On a different note, I always get a laugh when people compare fictional universes. Nobody has any idea how these technologies work, so it's hard to say how they might compare
People are going to complain about the tactics and power comparison but plot wise this makes sense. The role of the Klingons is to be scary then get curb stomped, and the Shadows role is to be ridiculously overpowered.
Species 8472 vs The Shadows. Now that would be an interesting match up.
The Shadows would be wiped out within 22 seconds after the encounter. No Chance.
Since species 8472 ships were ripped from the vorlons in would say so.
Fantastic video. Always liked the longer neck versions of Klingons, but the music - a fusion of Klingon themes in a B5 mix is just masterful.
Glad you enjoyed it!
B5?
@@TheLace Babylon 5
Kudos to the the maker of the video, love it. My only comment is that the Klingon's didn't act like Klingons. The second the Shadow Vessel showed up and started firing the other 2 D7's would have immediately returned fire. Cross universe physics and technology is hard to guess at but these Klingons felt like they were more Federation in the response (running, evading, trying to figure out what was happening).
Cowards, the lot of them. They deserve to be on the Barge to Gre'thor for their lack of aggression. After the first ship exploded, the Left Wing ship broke left, and had every opportunity to reverse its turn and start laying into the Shadow ship while it followed the Right Wing ship.
Agreed and those D7's also had decent shields, seriously doubt Shadow weapons would overcome them. Shadow ships were fighting other ships with no shield tech in their universe. Borg cubes would shrug the Shadows off like fleas. They sure wouldn't assimilate them... they would be kinda like the Kazon equivalent to the Borg. ;)
@@AVoiceInTheBush They looked more like D5s, possibly D6s but there was not enough hull structure for them to be D7s/K'tingas.
@@Thurgosh_OG I agree....Shadow weapons are seriously powerful, I think the Klingon shields in this video were quite accurate for what would have happened. These D style ships are older than the D7 for sure - (IMHO D7 could withstand a couple of hits but really 24th Century ships are required to have a decent chance )
... and the Shadows didn't act like Shadows. The Shadow vessel would have lined up and "beam straffed" at least 2 of the Klingon ships as soon as they uncloaked. Happened several times in the B5 show. So within 3 seconds of the first shot, it would have went from 3 vs 1 to 1 vs 1 ... and given a photon torpedo (according to the STTNG manual) has a damage output of about 65 megatons (1.5 kg of mater and 1.5kg of anti-mater) and the Vorlon and Shadows shields can withstand up to 2 gigatons of damage, the Stadow would just sit there and laugh at the first 10 or 12 torpedo hits.
If we knew the various ship’s power output and shield strength, a simulation would be possible. That said, beautifully done, looks polished and professional
I AGREE 💯
buuuuuutttttt, we do Know that.
The shadow vessels have strong armor and no shields and are designed to be dispensable. They are literally dronews controlled by an enslave frontal cortex. The Kling ships have rear mounted torpedos, shields and an aggressive nature. The klingons would shoot first and ask questions later and would win an engagement 3 to 1.
Even in the show the vorlon shields were very effective against the shadow beam weapon, but only their largest ships were shielded. Klingon tech is between the mimbari and vorlon. They'd fare much better than we see here.
Hell, the Klingons would win 1v1.
All ways knew Species 8472 really come from Thirdspace.
@@josephprice6968 No they would not. The shadow race was way to high tech for them. They have no chance.
Yeah, they should have been firing rear torpedoes as soon as the Shadow decloaked. Early D7s did not have cloaking devices, but these did. Why were they flying around uncloaked? Photon torpedoes are supposed to be hard to dodge, they don't move like slow plasma torpedoes, though they got slower between TOS and TNG.
One thing I have seen over and over is the speed difference. Just about every other Sci-Fi has Star Trek beat in the strategic speed, much faster FTL speeds. But they do it in either Hyperspace, Wormholes, or Jump Points. Few can do FTL in normal space. There in normal space Star Trek ships have a huge advantage in they can move at healthy fractions of light speed with Impulse Drives. Or even FTL in normal space. Most other Sci-Fi would not have developed sensors to track FTL craft in real space as they would see it as impossible and therefore impractical as no ship moves faster than light in their universes. Most don't even move at low fractions of light speed.
Moving at Impulse Speeds of normal cruise 0.25 to 0.5 (according to Star Trek books) would still blow past most other Sci-Fi craft. Combine this with other Sci-Fi not being able to hit targets that can literally fly faster than their beam weapons can go, means the Star Trek ships could strike with near impunity. And those photon torpedoes can move at FTL speeds as well. What that means in normal space is you would not see the Star Trek ship launch torpedoes until after those torpedoes hit you. According to some of the early Star Trek Next Generation books Warp Factor was the cube root of the multiple of light speed. Meaning Warp 9 was 729 times the speed of light. Moving at that speed even for one second, torpedoes don't carry a lot of fuel, still gives you a range of around 219,000,000 km. Well outside even the Shadow's maximum engagement range.
So those remaining two D7's would have hit he engines to gain some distance to assess the threat after the first one was blown up. Seeing the Shadow could not pursue as fast or engage them at range, they would have stood off and blasted it with torpedoes.
Or the D7's would of just instantly fired photon torpedo's from there aft torpedo launchers and the shadow vessel would literally be vaporised with a single shot at that range, and I do mean vaporised without shields. Maybe one D7 could of been destroyed taken by surprise but never more than that as the shadows life expectancy would be seconds because of the response of the other two D7's.
A Klingon bird of prey with cloaking technology, shields, impulse engines at sub light speeds with sub light targeting sensors to match and photon torpedo's with competent commander could take on unlimited shadow vassals at will and would be an intergalactic turkey shoot. With a Klingon bird of prey and unlimited supply of torpedo's you would rule the B5 universe in the name of the empire with an iron fist. Ands that's not even exploring just beaming warheads and high yield bombs on board enemy ships while cloaked.
Always nice to see what's possible when the director is on your side :-)
Plot armor is always good.
Awesome! First Person View from Shadow vessel - great idea, tv-series missed that!
2nd time I've done that...;)
@@SpacialKatana really? Sorry, I failed the 1st one)
@@momic1 It's in a Random Render vid I did a while back.
@@SpacialKatana ok, thx a lot!
Beautiful! So well done... thought i was watching it through my window... unbelievable! Perfect!
The Shadows...a truly undervalued bad-guy in sci-fi. That was awesome though. I loved it and would love a B5 reboot. As for the battle, let's not forget that a small contingent of Shadow ships (3-4 I think it was) destroyed a fleet of Narn warships, a space station and then laid in ambush for Narn reinforcements. The Shadows took no damage. Good battle!
Hey! Remember the Shadows are just misunderstood. Some maintain the Shadows think THEY are the good guys in spite of their deeds. And to some fans that is excuse enough.
I have read a reboot is indeed in the works; just not sure when it will hit the networks.
ST ships are way more advanced than about anything in B5 save for Vorlons and Minbari.
@@jameszabinski3558 sadly, it sounds like it will be Woke.
@@richardbutton1179 Shadows and Vorlons are overall on the same tier technologically. They both came just after the first ones, Lorien's race, and have been space-fairing species for millions of years.
Delenne: "The Shadows were old when even the Ancients were young. They battled each other over and over across a million years."
It is difficult to match-up technology between two universes, but we do see some comparisons.
The Shadow vessels' control system is basically the perfected technology used in ST:TOS's M5 unit. In that episode, one Constitution class mopped the floor against 4 other Constitutions. Having one central brain control the whole ship does provide a heck of an advantage in response times.
I loved it. Great mashup between Babylon 5 and Star Trek. I want more.
🖖😎👍Very cool and very greatly nicely well done and executed in every detail way shape and form provided on this format and production a very fabulous job indeed Sir!👌.
And on this day the Klingons learned true fear.
Until the Klingons show up with their biogenic weapons and pepper the whole system with it, killing any Shadow ships for lightyears that passes through.
If Star Trek has taught us anything, it's that the Klingons are a persistent bunch.
How? No survivors to tell what happened, so they learned nothing.
The greatest fear a Klingon warrior has is to die of old age or disease or in surrender...
@@mikearmstrong8483 Jamming subspace is something the Klingons have been known to get around.
How is that, did they look at your face?
It's been too long since I've watched B5 for me to comment on whether or not the Klingons should have fared better, but the cinematography and music are awesome! I loved the Shadows' POV shot. Well done!
The shadows perfected their technology when Klingons were primordial soup. The Klingons didn't have a chance in hell.
The Klingons are peer adversaries to 23rd-24th century humanity - the shadows have MILLIONS of years of technological development beyond. If anything their advantage is being toned down here to provide more drama.
Simple: Klingons have shields. Shadows do not.
But they do. They're just skin tight - they can be seen when the Vorlon frigates/dds were taking them out, you could see them. Good enough to withstand several seconds of Vorlon weapons fire which is pretty damned good.
Again, we are talking technology MILLIONS of years beyond Star Trek. Still, it'd be cool to watch.
I, on the other hand, watch and rewatch B5 and Star Trek all the time. The level of technology represented imagined in Star Trek is far beyond anything imagined in B5, even among the advanced races, such as the Shadows and the Vorlons. Sorry, but that Shadow vessel would have been toast. Unable to penetrate Klingon shielding technology the Shadow vessels possess no such defenses. Klingon disruptors would have chewed them up with the first salvo. B5 developers never imagined any weaponry beyond highly advanced lasers. Disruptor and phaser technology represents weaponry several generations more advanced.
Incredible. Well-done. Glorious battle. They all died with Honor.
It was a good day to die!
They died moving in slow motion. What kind of Klingons fight like this?
Most excellent! Supernice texture. Great diffusion...
Well done! The music built up the suspense nicely. I thought the cloaking would have kept the Klingon ship safe. Visuals very well done. Nothing was hurried along.
The technology of the Shadows is somewhat higher than the Borg from what can be understood. That said, in no way would the Klingons end without causing some damage. I've read the other comments, and understand where the author of this EXCELLENT work stands. I 👏 seriously great special effects. For lack of neutrality in it, not so much. Star Trek vs Star Wars is another equal battle. The Death Star technology would jump near a Federation world and blow it to hell! Yet I know Starfleet ships otherwise have superior weapons and shields. Tie fighters have no chance against Federation Starships.
Same here? No. Shadow vessels would turn ethereal and torpedoes would pass harmlessly. But phasers? Disruptor fire? Those would cause damage. In the end, the Klingon fleet would still be destroyed, but not without giving a bloody nose to the Shadow vessels! IMAO.
Curious where did you get your information that the shadow technology is more advanced then the Borg. I think since they are two different universes with completely different technologies. I find highly unlikely there is Imperial data to back up that statement. At best I think that is just opinion. But it was still entertaining to watch.
The shadows are billions of years old and have guided entire galaxies to grow the way they want them to in conflict with the vorlons....I get star trek fans don't like this fact but shadow technology is so far advanced of anything they see itd be a really one way fight....the issue with star trek is that they always produce one off technologies to win the episode making their tech impossible to measure as they always have the miracle get out of jail clause, whilst b5 is grounded in a world where this kind of thing doesn't happen.
Somewhat? The shadows are millions of years old.
Even if they are different. Different species develop at different rates and levels. So even if the Shadows are millions of years old. That does not make them more technologically advanced by default. You could also argue all species are millions of years old. They developed through evolution. Are you saying that the Shadows have stagnated as a species and are no longer evolving. If so that would mean they are a species in decline or maybe on the verge of going extinct. How old you are as a species has nothing to do with your technological development. Alligators are millions of years old and I don't see them flying around in starships. The dinosaurs lived for 100s of millions of years and I don't see evidence of a dinosaur star empire out their. Nor is their any evidence to support that they were remarkably intelligent.
I feel the main issue with any verses scenario is we just don't have the information needed to actually do them. Like the mentioned Star Trek vs. Star Wars match ups, depending on who you uses as a source turbolasers have a power out put of way below Star Trek, all the way up to vaporize the Enterprise in a single shot, as we don't have a single cannon source to go by.... As one physicist, who was a Star Wars geek, estimated how much energy it would take to blow up the asteroid in "The Empire Strikes Back" that a Star destroyer blew up, the turbolaser had to have about 6700 terajoules per shot, while in Star Trek TNG's episode "The Survivors" the Enterprise's shield were taking down completely by what Worf said was 400 gigawatts of particle energy. A gigawatt is equal to a gigajoule, and 1 terawatt is 1000 gigawatt, a single turbolaser has 16,750 times the energy it take to break through the shields of the Enterprise... which is insane, but that is why Star Trek is called Science Fiction while Star Wars is a Space Fantasy, one follows science rules and bends them, the other just makes stuff up ie. a fantasy.
As primarily a Trek fan, it always seems in these hybrid-show battles, the Trek technology is always way outclassed by everyone else's slipstream drives, hyperspeed drives, wormholes (all better than warp drive), bigger ships, turbo-weapons, etc. To me, a bigger ship isn't a better ship, a bigger gun isn't necessarily a better gun, etc. I guess it just depends on who's making the video...a Trek fan, a Star Wars fan, a B5 fan, a Stargate fan, etc. Don't get me wrong, I love all these shows. But, I guess, to me, Trek has space technology that is better thought out and a bit more believable than the other show's space technology.
you're right trek has better well rounded ships for example they are more like swiss army knives of sci fi ships. they got tools for every situation and are specialists at nothing. so while other sci fi ships have better engines and stuff. they got crap shields. or other ships have good weapons but they got crap sensors. basically star trek ships and crew can basically use one of their most feared weapons. technobabble jiu jitsu.
long as one remembers that 40K always wins because it was made OP to begin with....
Especially when you have Vulcans on your side.
@@joeswanson733 One thing I have seen over and over is the speed difference. Just about every other Sci-Fi has Star Trek beat in the strategic speed, much faster FTL speeds. But they do it in either Hyperspace, Wormholes, or Jump Points. Few can do FTL in normal space. There in normal space Star Trek ships have a huge advantage in they can move at healthy fractions of light speed with Impulse Drives. Or even FTL in normal space. Most other Sci-Fi would not have developed sensors to track FTL craft in real space as they would see it as impossible and therefore impractical as no ship moves faster than light in their universes. Most don't even move at low fractions of light speed.
Moving at Impulse Speeds of normal cruise 0.25 to 0.5 (according to Star Trek books) would still blow past most other Sci-Fi craft. Combine this with other Sci-Fi not being able to hit targets that can literally fly faster than their beam weapons can go, means the Star Trek ships could strike with near impunity. And those photon torpedoes can move at FTL speeds as well. What that means in normal space is you would not see the Star Trek ship launch torpedoes until after those torpedoes hit you. According to some of the early Star Trek Next Generation books Warp Factor was the cube root of the multiple of light speed. Meaning Warp 9 was 729 times the speed of light. Moving at that speed even for one second, torpedoes don't carry a lot of fuel, still gives you a range of around 219,000,000 km. Well outside even the Shadow's maximum engagement range.
So those remaining two D7's would have hit he engines to gain some distance to assess the threat after the first one was blown up. Seeing the Shadow could not pursue as fast or engage them at range, they would have stood off and blasted it with torpedoes.
@@fozzy1004 Picard maneuver would essentially pwn most of these other sci Fi ships if they're playing somekind of war game where they record tag hits
Some of my best friends are Klingons. One sleeps in my shed and helps me cut the grass.
Superb animation and music. Very improbable plot.
The Klingons died in glorious battle and so died with great honour.
Probably the best point of all lol
Yup That about it !! 😆 A great video well done
Thanks;)
Love the stellar background with nebula. This video has a Space: 1999 vibes.
Gravitonic gear and beam launchers are really fantastic.
I'm not to sure about this one, of a couple of Narn ships can damage or destroy a Shadow vessel I doubt a D7 would have much difficulty, the Klingons are way more advanced than the Narn, the Narn don't even have gravity on their ships, or shields, and they use fusion for power, it's highly unlikely that the Narn have weapons that are more powerful than the weapons that the Klingons have.
SpacialKatana has a strong love for all things Shadow and a particular dislike for all things Star Trek and Star Wars. He uses his formidable skills with animation to remind us peasants of this. XD
Any faction like the Klingons ,Federation or Romulans would be at worst near pear to the shadows at best would kick the crap out of the shadows .
I doubt the Klingons would have a chance not even close
The shadows are an ancient race who had long since perfected their weaponry. They would be even more powerful than the Borg so it is not hard to imagine them handing the Klingons their posteriors.
If you guys don't like the way these turn out don't watch.
Since when can the shadow vessels go immaterial and have matter pass through them? I thought that effect only happened when they pass into hyperspace.
Because they did pass into hyperspace for a brief moment they literally were in another dimension when the weapons fire hit
@@jamesricker3997 If that was the case, which it isn't, then the instance where two Narn heavy cruisers damaged a Shadow vessel wouldn't have happened.
@@timgreen6072 I think in this case, the Shadow anticipated being fired upon and took evasive action. Love the Klingon ships, but they were no match for the shadow. I'm surprised they didn't warp away.
@@bondgabebond4907 within the universe of Babylon 5 there is the troublesome rule that states that it requires a large amount of energy to make hyperspace jumps, this fact negates any form of being able to make hyperspace jumps in quick succession! Even the Vorlons must adhere to this rule, and the Shadows are not exempt. At no time in B5 was it ever shown that anyone was able to do so. Also, there was never a time when the Shadows ever partially phased into hyperspace to avoid any hostile fire, this is why I used the example of the Narn heavy cruisers managing to severely damage a Shadow vessel.
@@bondgabebond4907 I disagree about the Klingons being outmatched. B5 and Star Trek are two entirely different universes and the results of any encounters between these two civilizations is entirely subjective.
Excellent video! Thank you for making and sharing!
Very cool! Definitely has the B5 cinematic vibe.
The Shadow's energy beam weapon would rip right through the Klingons shields, but the Klingon's photon torpedoes could cause massive damage to the Shadow vessel. (The battle would probably be a tie, or one Klingon ship surviving.) -- Two of the Klingon ships would immediately cloak after the first one was destroyed. They would then flank the Shadow vessel and uncloak firing their photon torpedoes. The Shadow ship would likely destroy another Klingon ship, leaving the last Klingon ship a clear shot with it's disruptors and more torpedoes.
also, 4 or so disrupter banks as well and aft torps. but I liked the animation and work! well done SpacialKatana.
Shadow ship can sense occupants shield wont cloak that. Shadow ship took direct hits from multiple Narn energy mines - doubtful a torpedo would destroy it. The only thing in b 5 that was observed as to be able to stop the shadow death ray from further slicing was the organic vorlon tentacle from their dreadnought. A shadow vessel could likely intercept the relatively slow moving torpedos with is main ray.
You are assuming that shadows get their scanners from the same outfit that the federation buys from ! Chances are that the Shadows will just say nice visual effect, fire the main guns and hit the their target
One thing I have seen over and over is the speed difference. Just about every other Sci-Fi has Star Trek beat in the strategic speed, much faster FTL speeds. But they do it in either Hyperspace, Wormholes, or Jump Points. Few can do FTL in normal space. There in normal space Star Trek ships have a huge advantage in they can move at healthy fractions of light speed with Impulse Drives. Or even FTL in normal space. Most other Sci-Fi would not have developed sensors to track FTL craft in real space as they would see it as impossible and therefore impractical as no ship moves faster than light in their universes. Most don't even move at low fractions of light speed.
Moving at Impulse Speeds of normal cruise 0.25 to 0.5 (according to Star Trek books) would still blow past most other Sci-Fi craft. Combine this with other Sci-Fi not being able to hit targets that can literally fly faster than their beam weapons can go, means the Star Trek ships could strike with near impunity. And those photon torpedoes can move at FTL speeds as well. What that means in normal space is you would not see the Star Trek ship launch torpedoes until after those torpedoes hit you. According to some of the early Star Trek Next Generation books Warp Factor was the cube root of the multiple of light speed. Meaning Warp 9 was 729 times the speed of light. Moving at that speed even for one second, torpedoes don't carry a lot of fuel, still gives you a range of around 219,000,000 km. Well outside even the Shadow's maximum engagement range.
So those remaining two D7's would have hit he engines to gain some distance to assess the threat after the first one was blown up. Seeing the Shadow could not pursue as fast or engage them at range, they would have stood off and blasted it with torpedoes.
@@fozzy1004 Star Trek impulse speeds are less "realistic" than other scifi universes. No account for inertia, just wash it all away with inertial damping fields and artificial gravity.
I'd say somebody is a little bias towards the Babylon 5 Universe. Lol One we have no idea how well the Shadow weapon would work against Klingon shields. Nor do we know if they could detect the Klingons while cloaked. Nor do we know how the Shadow ship would hold up against disrupter fire. That being said it was a nice video.
The Shadow ship can be injured, yes, injured as in a living organism. Another Shadow ship will hook up with the injured ship and take it home for healing. Great show Babylon 5 is.
I'd say Shadow beams could probably bust through the shield after about 5-6 seconds of contact. After that, it'd be like carving BBQ pork.
Once again by what technical information do you base this on. I don't know of any information to support that claim. Except that you feel that the beams could penetrate the Klingon shields. That does not make for a legitimate argument. Just because we wish or feel something to be true does not make it so. Show some kind of empirical evidence to support your claim.
@@codysteel8245 I said "I'd say" which is A GUESS. There IS no empirical info we can use otherwise this conversation couldn't exist. But we know that Star Trek vessels can lose their shields with overwhelming batteries and the closest weapon we've seen to a Shadow beam is the Borg beam the Collective used to penetrate the shields and carve out a section of the Enterprise in "Deja Q."
So I am GUESSING that Shadow vessels could penetrate the shields LIKE THE Borg beam weapon did after, say, 5-6 seconds of impact just because of how effective they are at delivering high payloads of energy in narrow fields. That would do devastating drainage on shield emitters by concentrating strain in a fixed area instead of distributing across the membrane.
I figured you'd remember all these details yourself and figure it out by my description. I'm surprised you needed me to recap it.
I am inclined to agree with you Cody. I have been a fan of both universes, but come on... 3 Klingon ships can't take down one Shadow vessel? have the Shadows not heard of the Kobiashi Maru?
I like how the damage is consistent with where the shadow's lasers lands. Nice slice and dice!
Oh c'mon now! I can see Kahless spinning in his grave over this insult! Surely the Klingons could have at least scratched the shadow vessel! LOL great vid, very enjoyable.
One thing I have seen over and over is the speed difference. Just about every other Sci-Fi has Star Trek beat in the strategic speed, much faster FTL speeds. But they do it in either Hyperspace, Wormholes, or Jump Points. Few can do FTL in normal space. There in normal space Star Trek ships have a huge advantage in they can move at healthy fractions of light speed with Impulse Drives. Or even FTL in normal space. Most other Sci-Fi would not have developed sensors to track FTL craft in real space as they would see it as impossible and therefore impractical as no ship moves faster than light in their universes. Most don't even move at low fractions of light speed.
Moving at Impulse Speeds of normal cruise 0.25 to 0.5 (according to Star Trek books) would still blow past most other Sci-Fi craft. Combine this with other Sci-Fi not being able to hit targets that can literally fly faster than their beam weapons can go, means the Star Trek ships could strike with near impunity. And those photon torpedoes can move at FTL speeds as well. What that means in normal space is you would not see the Star Trek ship launch torpedoes until after those torpedoes hit you. According to some of the early Star Trek Next Generation books Warp Factor was the cube root of the multiple of light speed. Meaning Warp 9 was 729 times the speed of light. Moving at that speed even for one second, torpedoes don't carry a lot of fuel, still gives you a range of around 219,000,000 km. Well outside even the Shadow's maximum engagement range.
So those remaining two D7's would have hit he engines to gain some distance to assess the threat after the first one was blown up. Seeing the Shadow could not pursue as fast or engage them at range, they would have stood off and blasted it with torpedoes.
Excellent analysis, spot on, although I doubt photon torpedoes would have any effect on Shadow ships. FWIW, the idea that warp speeds were the cubes of warp numbers was first introduced in the Star Trek Starfleet Technical Manual, by Franz Joseph, published in 1975. Next Gen canon showed that, whatever warp numbers might have meant in TOS, the 24th century was operating at far greater speeds for any given warp number with warp 10 being an unachievable infinite speed.
@@odysseusrex5908 I think the photon torpedoes would. They are anti-matter weapons, each holding an actual amount of anti-matter to annihilate with the matter of the torpedo itself. This causes an incredibly powerful explosion and direct energy release. Even a proximity hit would seriously hurt a Shadow vessel if 2 X-Ray lasers in the low megaton range could kill one with sustained fire of only about 20 seconds.
@@odysseusrex5908 In all good things....
They achieve Warp 13, though there many source that default that from the ST Voy episode where Warp 10 folded space., then developing Slip Stream technology, to move even faster in a fraction of the time.
Actually your right, by jove, b5 they all had to use jump gates and had no FTL, a distinct advantage. Which means they could have pulled a picard maneuver and blew the shadow out of the sky
Why is it in EVERY one of these Shadow vs ST ships the torpedo's ALWAYS miss? They travel at near light speed when launched so there's NO WAY a shadow ship would be able to just simply twerk itself one way and not take a hit plus PTs are self guiding and dont miss unless the object is cloaked or luckily makes a last second course correction. But when launched they attacking vessel is usualy at a close enough range where the later isnt possible. I think this battle would be much closer than the maker made it.
people really fail to understand how insanely powerful star trek universe ships and weapons and shields are. you are correct that photon torpedoes are relativistic weapons with giant warhead yields that can travel 2 light seconds in less than 3 or 4 seconds, so they would essentially hit as soon as they are launched and thus never miss.
that doesn't look as cool on screen tho.
regardless, those shadow battle crabs would not be able to penetrate shields and would be dispatched effortlessly by even one trek universe vessel.
it sucks that star trek has never given us a really great ship battle. crappy writing and lack of imagination and budget limitations suck.
@@lvirag8401 Best ST battle was Yesterdays Enterprise but even it could have and was supposed to be better. It was supposed to be a 2 part show with part 1 showing the battle between the Enterprise C and the Romulan ships before entering the space rift. And a battle between the Enterprise D and Klingon ships at Archer 4 which Riker said "the pasting we gave them." Part 2 would feature the battle betwee the Enterprise D and the 3 Klingon ships and it was supposed to be longer and more intense. But the producers scrapped the idea. Bummer.
Phasers and torpedos MISS. That's just countermeasures, and cannon. The Shadows are King when it comes to that. You don't need shields when they don't know where you are and can't hit you.
@@smileydag as i said, y'all don't have the faintest idea how powerful the fake technology weapons and shields are in st. a single starfleet vessel would be an extinction level event for the shadows with little or no danger from shadow weapons , but it's all dumb tv so believe whatever nonsense you want as your own personal head canon.
but phasers and photon torpedoes only miss because writers and sfx people are bad at their jobs and dummies lap it up anyway.
anything that can hit a moving target one meter square at a lightsecond distance like st phasers can is not gonna miss. shadows go boom while the sf peesonnel done't even put their coffee down.
@@lvirag8401 Agreed. One thing I have seen over and over is the speed difference. Just about every other Sci-Fi has Star Trek beat in the strategic speed, much faster FTL speeds. But they do it in either Hyperspace, Wormholes, or Jump Points. Few can do FTL in normal space. There in normal space Star Trek ships have a huge advantage in they can move at healthy fractions of light speed with Impulse Drives. Or even FTL in normal space. Most other Sci-Fi would not have developed sensors to track FTL craft in real space as they would see it as impossible and therefore impractical as no ship moves faster than light in their universes. Most don't even move at low fractions of light speed.
Moving at Impulse Speeds of normal cruise 0.25 to 0.5 (according to Star Trek books) would still blow past most other Sci-Fi craft. Combine this with other Sci-Fi not being able to hit targets that can literally fly faster than their beam weapons can go, means the Star Trek ships could strike with near impunity. And those photon torpedoes can move at FTL speeds as well. What that means in normal space is you would not see the Star Trek ship launch torpedoes until after those torpedoes hit you. According to some of the early Star Trek Next Generation books Warp Factor was the cube root of the multiple of light speed. Meaning Warp 9 was 729 times the speed of light. Moving at that speed even for one second, torpedoes don't carry a lot of fuel, still gives you a range of around 219,000,000 km. Well outside even the Shadow's maximum engagement range.
So those remaining two D7's would have hit he engines to gain some distance to assess the threat after the first one was blown up. Seeing the Shadow could not pursue as fast or engage them at range, they would have stood off and blasted it with torpedoes.
Or the D7's would of just instantly fired photon torpedo's from there aft torpedo launchers and the shadow vessel would literally be vaporised with a single shot at that range, and I do mean vaporised without shields. Maybe one D7 could of been destroyed taken by surprise but never more than that as the shadows life expectancy would be seconds because of the response of the other two D7's.
A Klingon bird of prey with cloaking technology, shields, impulse engines at sub light speeds with sub light targeting sensors to match and photon torpedo's with competent commander could take on unlimited shadow vassals at will and be an intergalactic turkey shoot. With a Klingon bird of prey and unlimited supply of torpedo's you would rule the B5 universe in the name of the empire with an iron fist. Ands that's not even exploring just beaming warheads and high yield bombs on board ships while clocked.
Ominous music with a splash of tension. Suits the predatory aspect of the Klingon ships to a T. Well done.
A Klingon cloaking device..... how cute. I sincerely hope all crew members have good life insurance,
Sorry, that wasn't really a fair fight. But the animation is always spot on and very cool. Thanks for sharing. Have a Geek-tastic day. 👽🤓👍
Thanks for watching!
@@SpacialKatana Thank you for creating 😁👍👽🤓
@@michaelhearson yw:)
Looks like someone is a fan of Babylon 5 !
No shit Skylock.
You Betcha
@@SpacialKatana I'm a big B5 fan too and your animation is top-notch as always. Having said that, I don't see a Shadow vessel being able to take out even one Trek ship, let alone three. LOL
Great backgrounds!!!
Love the crossover! More please!
I think its a toss up whether the Klingons would view the Shadows as worthy opponents...or dinner.
Then again, with Klingons, you can easily be both.
Yep, that's pretty much exactly how I pictured the encounter. Great vid! Thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great special effects but looks like the shadows love the back door😂
Speaking of the back door... ua-cam.com/video/xj7lxlB8pXY/v-deo.html
Swell video and music as well!
Great animation, but major misunderstanding on how well a Shadow vessel would do against 3 D-7s.
Not even a Shadow's beam weapon would penetrate Klingon shields in less than probably 10 shots (Shadow's beam weapon is roughly equivalent to an Ori beam weapon). You're right in saying the Shadow vessel would get the drop on the first D7 and blow it up, but the other 2 D7s would cloak, coordinate their flanking attack and cut loose with their 20-pt KP-6 torpedos, and that would take only 3-4 photon hits to cripple or even destroy the Shadow.
Shadow vessels cannot "phase out" to avoid torpedos--that's not possible by B5 canon.
Tons of hard work on the illustration and graphics, though--and that by itself was nicely done.
Wrong. A photon torpedo (according to the STTNG manual) has a damage output of about 65 megatons (1.5 kg of mater and 1.5kg of anti-mater) and the Vorlon and Shadows shields can withstand over 2 gigatons of damage, the Shadow would just sit there and laugh at the first 10 or 12 torpedo hits.
Finally, an accurate space battle, silent because the lack of air but a grand score with full 20th century orchestra
Seriously?! I do not think that a Shadow vessel main laser can cut through Klingon deflector shields.
The battle btween the Klingon and the shadows ships is so real. Great CGI well done.
That was so cheesy and so was my smile that lasted the entire video 😅
Wow! Great video. This is pretty much exactly how it would go too.
Nicely done!
Cool, thanks!
While i would agree with the outcome of such an encounter, i somehow doubt those Shadows would attack them, but instead take them in as new client species. After all they have a very similar war philosophy.
Disagree. The Shadows stay hidden and prefer subterfuge, coming out only when a killing blow is needed that their servants cannot handle. The Romulans on the other hand, are far more similar in philosophy.
Несмотря на ряд логических нестыковок, сделано красиво.
Wonderful special effects
A Shadow vessel partially phases to avoid a hit from weapons fire? That's new! Only one Klingon used its shields or cloaking device? I doubt it. The Shadow vessel might have won over time against two Klingon ships but not three. Didn't two Narn vessels destroy a Shadow ship? And they didn't have shields!
They used telepaths which the Shadows are very vulnerable to!
@@Tonydjjokerit Narns didn't have telepaths.
@@fearlessfreap8093 They weren't Narn as far as I know!
Watch the Battle of Gorash VII, they used the phase shift to avoid energy mines. Get your elbows in before talking nonsense here buddy.
@@SpacialKatana thought i remembered that small insignificant detail.
While I thought the work was good, I seriously doubt the results of this engagement would have been as presented. As Klingons had cloaking devices, they also know how to fight against them. For the Shadow to get away undamaged is hard to believe.
I disagree! The Shadows are masters of the "sneak and strike". Not even the Borg or Dominion would stand a chance let alone the Klingons!
Nice background music. Kaplah!
Pretty cool animation. As a fan of both Star Trek and Babylon 5, that is quite an interesting confrontation.
Almost like 1979 but Batlecrab instead of V`ger👌
Yep 😉
Very well made video! It’s hard to say a “true” victor here. Two different styles of enemies, weapon systems and tactics.
Personally, a fan of both, I feel the Klingons would have lost anyway. But, I would have liked to have seen at least one successful strike on the Shadow vessel with a 3:1 ratio. IMO
As we have all seen here and many times before. Shadows can phase partially out of the universe and weapons fly right through without damaging them. That is what makes them so badass.
@@SIXPACFISH And yet they never did that when fighting the Youger Races in a direct battle
Great work really impressive stuff
That red ray was hard to argue with.
These productions are so very good they are looking a bit odd to me, I am colour deficient and my colour cones and rods see a set colour differently so as I look at things they can flicker in colour. It means I can see subtle cgi implants in programs and the one thing I've worked out is that if its too clean (ie no blemish at all) and precise in its edges its cgi and most people will instinctively know. I have no idea if its possible but can you make the edges less perfect and the colours less solid to reflect reality a bit more?
If not I'll carry on thoroughly enjoying your stuff! I particularly enjoyed the shields working and what looked like a more powerful beam from the shadows for longer as a result. I have also always wondered if the Shadows could phase into hyperspace.
Yes, the Shadows have to jump into hyperspace in order to travel FTL, just like all the other races of B5. But they seem to be able to do that without opening a visible jump gate like all the other races have to do. We've seen Shadow vessles traveling in B5's version of hyperspace in multiple episodes.
This is pretty accurate & very well done. ps.: Thinking of B5, the Narn somewhat remind at the Klingons and the Centauri at the Romulans ^^
Glad you liked it :)
Nicely done!
Thanks!
Excellent video and music score!! Thanks. The visuals were great. My only criticism would be that the Klingons would be more aggressive. Klingons tend to keep weapons charged and have fast recharge rates. As soon as the Shadow fired the first shot, the Klingons would've opened fire. In the end, I agree a Shadow cruiser would mop the floor with 3 Klingon cruisers.
The Klingons might have fired first, with a larger aggressive vessel 'decloaking' behind them.
Id say the Klingons and the shadows would get along. Like the centari
The Shadows would use the Klingons to "turn over the ant hills" and create chaos. The Klingons would be all too happy to play along.
@@benitosalazar3749 agreed benito . They would.
I don't think the Klingons are into subservience tbo....
@@SpacialKatana Maybe if they let them be but gave them cool toys to play with. How about Bird of Prey with a Shadow hull?
Actually that might be a safe assumption
2:24 Just like a scene and camera angel from B5, I love it :)
Excellent video.
Thnks
The interesting thing about he Shadows is that they prefer to work...in the shadows. They try to find power hungry associates who want power and can help them with their agenda. I bet that if they ever had appeared in the Star Trek Universe, they would do great business with the Romulans.
Aint that the truth lol
Yup. That's about how it would go.
I just love Klingon D6 & D7 Battle Cruisers ❤
Yeah they're a cool design, liked them since a kid ;-)
@@SpacialKatana Seeing two or three of these approaching & that Mongolian Battle Theme playing in the background... AWESOME!!!!
Wow!!! Awesome guys!
Just me, and thanks:)
Where to begin with this lets see. One the Shadows never demonstrated that they could use their jump to hyperspace as a tactic to avoid torpedoes. Yes they can jump in and out of regular space at a moments notice but never partial jump to have weapons fire become ineffective. The model for the Klingon ships is a bit of misnomer these looked like D5-D6's at best. Which didn't have cloak or torps firing from the front. I figure you were looking the upgraded D7 to a K'tinga class in reality. All that said the reason why the Shadow weapon works soo well is that in the B5 universe shielding like Trek ships is not there. So those beams slice right through the more primitive ships. Someone mentioned that the shadows are billion of years older and in fact they are but the better tech was still with the Klingons. Now saying all that I do think the Shadows could have won. At the cost of a nearly destroyed ship but yes they could have won. On the other hand the Klingons should have been in the fight much longer if not outright winning. That tactics of the Shadows here are nee ridiculous and the Klingon's were just plain stupid.
They were billions of years older than the Alliance Races as well but they managed to kill off a number of Shadow vessels.
Picard Maneuver in the Star Trek universe. I give him it on that presidence.
Why do futuristic weapons systems always miss?
A race devoted to battle and cannot hit a giant ship.
See it in most scifi. The only ones who don't miss are the shadows. 🐜
Drama, otherwise scene/story very short. Obvious really :)
Shadows hardly miss
@@SFRMAINE They NEVER miss ! (Unless it's a Whitestar with plot armour).
Because futuristic defense systems are well developed also .
Shadow ship faded to hyperspace for a second. That’s why they missed.
Love the mysterious approach of the Klingon Bird~of~Prey ships entering the planet that guarded by the Shadow Species & the educating us about the Powerful Lasers of the Shadow Ships ... 🌍
Those aren't BoP's.
Dang space spider. 😳
What they got a stormtrooper manning that tactical console?
I really don't think that a shadow vessel could really defeat the Klingons D7 Battle ships all by itself 🤔????
Those were not D7s....they looked older...more like 22nd Century Klingon ships. The only problem is the cloaking device which is 2268/9 onwards for the KDF
Shadows were one of the first races in universe Klingon neanthertals would not have a change.
I gotta stop doing Star Trek renders, too many uptight weirdos....
@@SpacialKatana I would love to see some Stargate renders against Babylon5.
The only contention I would see is how Shadow weaponry would handle against shield technology, there was hardly any of that in B5 (except for the Thirdspace gate), so I think the battle would have carried on a bit more, at least a few more shots until the Shadow vessel would of course win, but maybe not totally unscathed... ;)
loved the way you made this video..
Thanks a lot 😊
Great work... The Shadow vessel looks like the one from Babylon 5.
I believe that the klingons would have done a better account than potraded.
'portrayed' Chubby fingers too big for little phone? 🤣
Klingons are basically just brutal neanthertals. How they are portrayed as space faring race with cloaking technology is beyond me.
@@TheKingTywinLannister
You just judge a culture by your standards that's the justification use to Exterminate real historical society. And if the Klingons were just brutal Neanderthals. They would have not built an empire.
I think the big thing is that the Klingons seemed to have no idea what they were about to encounter. Given the element of surprise I wouldn't blame them for losing. Now if the Klingons were prepared [with psychers especially] and somehow ambushed the Shadow craft then it's a super easy win for the Klingons.
If I knew what “potraded” meant I might possibly agree with you!🧐🙈
Extremely well done! The alien ship looks like a menacing spider!
@ Joseph Cope. You might really enjoy the Babylon 5 series (B5). Ever wonder why humans are generally afraid of spiders? Also, for something more "grounded", yet equally far fetched, read "Childhood's End" by Arthur C Clarke.
Those Klingon Men of War were pretty easy pickings for that Shadow vessel. Wow!
A warship from a race which was highly advanced and truly ancient well before the Klingon's home star first ignited, vs three ships from what amounts to space vikings... Went about like I would expect.
Samurai bikers.
From an artistic standpoint nicely done. :) I won't address the X vs. Y debate, I left my firesuit at the office.
Nice video, thanks
Thoroughly enjoyed that. 😍👍👽
Oh my fluffy bottom. WELL done. I felt a chill run down my spine watching this. Thank you!
Job done, then;)
Brilliant, but brutal. Great work!
Thanks a lot!
Well done!
I love the background music!
Ace bro - you rock!
Those Shadow vessels must be the deadliest things in sci-fi...
Very good!
Funny looking Narn.
🤣
Awesome
Nice job on the video. One of the better ones. On a different note, I always get a laugh when people compare fictional universes. Nobody has any idea how these technologies work, so it's hard to say how they might compare
Excellent. These are Enterprise era D7s.
Awesome!
People are going to complain about the tactics and power comparison but plot wise this makes sense. The role of the Klingons is to be scary then get curb stomped, and the Shadows role is to be ridiculously overpowered.
Good job, guys.