@@PeteMcConvillWatches To each his own but in my opinion, Jack's personality on his "Hey Hodinkee" videos seemed very natural and not out of place at all. Almost reminds me of the Breaking Bad character, Gale, and his nerdy sense of humor he exhibited in a lot of his role. A little awkward (purposefully most likely) but all dad jokes, puns and punchlines usually being secondary to the educational content that he was driving towards.
Don’t agree that Hey Hodinkee was forced. I think it showed a side of him maybe that was more casual and youth friendly. But not forced, quite honest actually.
While I don't know much about Hodinkee B-TC (Before Travel Clock), what I have seen since is that focus on Celebrity, rather than the actual Timepieces. Their message seems to be 'These are cool people that like watches', where as a channel like Watchbox is 'These are cool watches'.
Unfortunately Hodinkee is not what it used to be anymore. The departure of Jack Foster along other key senior editors is going to weight heavily on the overall editorial quality of Hodinkee. I think Watchbox has plenty of room to grow and they can have a massive success working along with Jack Foster. Unfortunately Hodinkee is more an e commerce platform now than an interesting horological publication.
Absolutely agree with the Travel Clock and comments about making Jack F “hip”. From day one I thought that was a terrible move. His whole zen approach was what made him so unique in the industry, even going back to his WatchTime days. I’ll always keep HODINKEE in my wheelhouse, but James Stacey is my last close connection with the brand.
Going back and thinking about the content Im actually clicking on and reading/watching/listening to purely for myself I'd say Fratello is looming larger and larger for me.
Jack is for a very nerd-oriented crowd and Watchbox has that crowd with Tim... but in a less refined way (not that Jack is super elegant but...)... I believe in style... I use my cycling sunglasses while riding and not as a tiara while working. Hodinkee feels different... Ben is now happy collecting cars, let's give him that amazingly earned pleasure.
As a person with an education in journalism and some past as an editor in the late 90-ties, I wish there was a 'positive' answer to your question. But I don't think we live in a day and age of quality journalism anymore. At least not for free. This would have to be paid content. No matter if you look at Hodinkee, Worn&Wound, or any other popular places, you will always notice how they are fed news and sponsored by companies. And they supplement this income with 'shops' which would be a ridiculous idea at any journalism school 25 years ago. But here we are. The real quality opinion still can be found in some smaller YT (yours included!) channels or at WUS if one has the patience to dive into a discussion with people. Lukasz
To be honest I can live with these guys selling product etc. Its 2022 and the world is different. But there are steps people can take to separate editorial from sales, they can be transparent about these controls and still develop trust. My issue is that they dont - places like Hodinkee etc tend to just act like its no big deal and expect us to be fine with whatever they choose to do. I find it particularly hilarious when they then poke at watch companies for not being transparent about things like inhouse movements etc.
@@PeteMcConvillWatches Well, they don't do this (separation) because it hurts the business. What you need as a person selling sponsorships is a direct influence on the editorial side. So selling and reviewing create a conflict.
Very interesting and smart analysis, imho. I fear Mr. Forster will be put in a sales role that's as unsuitable for him as was the performance role, and we'll read less from him. My guess is that Hodinkee is as interested as moving high-end watches as is Watchbox so letting Mr. Forster is a bit of a puzzle. Ben Clymer has always been interested in the "lifestyles of the rich and famous"-type life, so losing Mr. Forster's intellectual gravitas may be a mistake. As an aside, I share your interest in travel watches, and am finding that type of content across many different outlets. I'm finding that Worn and Wound is growing more serious and comprehensive and I enjoy their site quite a bit, more than Hodinkee these days, tbh.
I also thought of Worn and Wound while watching this. They are certainly more interested in the accessible watches, and humbler demographic, that Hodinkee may be leaving behind.
Hay HODINKEE was my favorite show even for my teenager son, couldn’t feel that he was forced to do, it’s a matter of who he was. Look forward to seeing new chapter of HODINKEE and Watch box.
I think the best of Tim is on his Monday live streams. That is where he tends to give his honest opinion about things. Lots of information but he's also more free to be himself. Really hoping Tim and Jack do some content like that together
There's good stuff in those livestreams but I just cant wade through them. Also, I fear his shoutouts and call ups veer a little to close to wealth rather than watch enthusiasm for me.
08:10 That, just that Peter, i don't really care. Your "what/why happened" analysis is right, but the whole matter's ending leaves me cold as ice. Plus, the "feel and think" thing is just another fancy wrapping paper to sell, won't buy unless the product is in my interest, unfortunately (and i say this in despair and sorrow) if it is, it's beyond my (economical) reach. So, i just enjoy the show, no matter who's playing. Cheers mate, another hit on the nail on an(other!) analysis by you, you're damn good at this and you know (it!). Be well.
The most important thing to grey market dealers is faith and trust in the company. They are investing in their brand image. It has a positive effect even if he is completely behind the scenes.
Agree. And if he's really good people might actually forget they are just an another grey market dealer and embrace watchbox as some form of club/community/clique.
After what they did to wathcville I certainly deleted their app, my account with them and canceled them 100% in every possible way. I know people who did the same. Will it kill hodinkee? Probably not. But certainly it wouldn’t help. Watchbox, which previously was ‘tim mosso on youtube’ for me, would probably grow into something bigger and better.
I believe that outside of Ben Clymer, Jack was the only true watch expert at Hodinkee and although their other presenters and authors are creative in their own way, they lack the credibility and authority in terms of expertise to deliver confident verdicts on ultra-important and significant watches and thus most of them are stuck to the affordable segment of the industry with reviews focused on lifestyle relevance of timepieces rather than the in-depth anatomy of the technical prominence of a watch. With Jack gone, they are even more limited in that aspect now and what I have observed for the past couple of months is that their UA-cam content is almost dead and non-existent. I mean we are not here for 1-minute hands-on advertisement styled spec-sheet reviews.
I agree “I don’t really care”. I like Jack’s content. I really like Watch Box’s content. Will the combined content be better - maybe, maybe not. I’ll still be watching. 😁
I read hodinkee from close to day one and I don’t anymore. I can’t relate to it anymore. The nail in the coffin for me was when they absorbed crown and caliber and did away with Nathan’s videos and converted the Hey, how’s that work with Luca into Hey Hodinkee. Hodinkee is overproduced and stuffy and gets away with their content because it’s Hodinkee. Just look how they sell their vintage watches within hours when the watches aren’t really anything special. Their customers buy their watches because it’s for sale one Hodinkee, not because it’s rare, particularly good condition or comes with all the accessories. Hodinkee is no longer for the masses, they cater to an upscale demographic and I’m not feeling it. Monochrome, time and tide and Fratello are my go to sites now and You’re terrific is my favorite YT channel. Good video!
Pete, I think that WatchBox is still evolving. I agree with you that the Forster hiring makes sense in the context of the Uber luxury watch market. WatchBox does at the over $50,000 watch level compete with the major auction houses as a place to buy and sell. The auction catalogue, exhibition and sale process is much too elongated. If WatchBox can establish itself as a world premier sales medium for the best watches in the world, this move makes a great deal of sense as does WatchBox’s international presence. The mass mid tier watch brokerage is akin to selling Cessna 150s and knowing that down the field is an operation where people are selling later generation Gulfstreams. With a global downturn, a pronounced and even definitive move to the high end may make sense for the WatchBox business model.
Something I was thinking also is that in a number of interviews Danny(?) Govberg has remarked that 75ish% of their income comes from 3 brands of watches that trade as commodities - Rolex, Patek, AP. Bringing in Jack would be a smart move in diversifying that sales footprint and walking people with a lot of money but little watch background to other brands - perhaps easing some 'trader' money to actual 'watch' money.
@@PeteMcConvillWatches I just want you to know that I truly value your watch rambles. Perhaps being based in Australia gives you enough distance to see things without the pressures of crowd think.
Actually I'm not that much of a purist - I think the mistake was not releasing the danger of the shop (or realising and responding poorly) and not putting in the right protections (such as chinese walls between editorial and sales).
On the subscribers and likes thing, have you thought about making that suggestion at the top of the video rather than the end. A lot go channels do a "I'm bla bla and I talk about yada yada, if you're into that sort of thing subscribe to the channel and hit the like button so you don't miss out on any similar content. With that said let's get into video..."
True. I see Hodinkee moving this way also. The problem for them is that the luxury journalism space is crowded. Not surprising with all those junkets. Robb Report and GQ (to name two) are bigger, more established and have a roster of relatively serious contributors. Hodinkee has been getting lighter and lighter and for a while has been outclassed by smaller operations, eg Fratello. I miss 'The Truth About Watches...' As for Jack - I suspect Mosso lacks the gravitas and people skills needed to tempt the big fish into diversifying their multimillion $$ collections away from the obvious, to the abstruse. If Watchbox can 'do a Journe' with other independents such as De Bethune etc etc (which WB have been stockpiling for months), he will be well worth the investment. That said, how he integrates with Mosso on camera will be interesting. I'd keep them separate (both are awkward and prickly - fine for watch nerds, but not investor bros). But how do you do that without relegating (and potentially losing) Tim?
It will be really interesting to see how the Mosso/Forster team works. I agree, I'd probably only bring them together occasionally and/or in a panel kind of arrangement.
i do hope Hodinkee sticks arounds and thrives. This is only way acceptable and good welcome way to increase new people to the community. Can you imagine you or Paul Pluta or Paul Thorpe being a representative of the watch community to the external world? Jesus!
Im sure Hodinkee will be fine, in fact I suspect it will thrive - it is just likely to do that with a different cohort to that which was with it 'back in the day'. And I agree with you, is Hodinkee perfect? no, is it 1000% better than places like Archie and Nico? Yep.
The monetary component while not wrong however blowing it out of proportion makes you lose a lot of your original audience who came to you for independability as their primary priority. Now I appreciate the balance that both Revolution and Fartello are still maintaining and hope they don't follow in Hodinkee misjudged route.
Unfortunately the business need to sell watches has taken over - think the balance is no longer there. It seems to be the norm for these channels and starting to see similar signs at Worn an Wound - less straight reviews than there used to be. More content directed towards watches within the shop. Not at the level of Hodinkee but can see signs.
Hodinkee's lifestyle aspirations have been obvious for a long time. Their preference for Leica and 911's should have been a clue. If I had to pin the start of their descent I would have said when they first plotted the Hodinkee magazine. But their aspirations were obvious to the observant way before that. I don't think there is any current site that can grow a community in the way Hodinkee did. Certainly there is no amateur watch lover site, channel or podcast with the potential to grow into a community first position. The current sites have all figured out how to turn a hobby into a business and now a hobbyist community builder can't compete. Does the current watch community even need another "origin Hodinkee:? It is a lot bigger and much more tribal now than it was then. There is also a lot less room for outsiders such as yourself. Brands controlling access has always been an issue in any mass market driven industry and is a particular issue with watches now. So Jack Forster moving is pretty irrelevant. I was going to make a TGV joke but you grabbed that opportunity. As far as I'm concerned Mr. FOrster is going to disappear into obscurity and I won't miss him and neither do I think it matters.
With regards to Hodinkee : same as living creatures, companies have a lifecycle . Maybe 10ish years , with the old team headed by Ben Clymer, was it, no more. Hodinkee is dead, long live Hodinkee.
Jack seemed out of place because he was actually knowledgeable. Ben is knowledgeable for sure, but I think he's more interested in the bottom line these days. There's no real art or appreciation for watch history going on at there these days. Case in point they sell an increasingly expanding number of watches but is no effort to curate what's being offered. Anything they can sell for a buck they are
I like TGV from the Urban Gentry. By "like", I guess what I mean is that he seems like a nice guy with some interesting things to say. But I never did understand his collaboration (short lived as it turned out) with Watchbox. TGV's whole thing is affordable watches. How could that possibly marry with Watchbox? I'm not being wise after the event; I can clearly remember thinking to myself: 'Huh? Is Brian Govberg trying to sell more Casios or Seikos? Really??'🤔 Watchbox, it seems to me, is all about the universe above Rolex. Watchbox is about Lange, Journe, Patek...et al. I half wonder whether they expected him to switch his focus to the Über-league? But then again, he probably wouldn't have brought a lot of his fans along. So yeah, it was weird. (This new dude from Hodinkee will give them what they want though, no doubt.)
Really admire Jack's watch knowledge but I can do without reading a couple of thousand words on the function of a balance cock or other deeply technical stuff. Hodinkee will be fine.
Despite my incredibly click baity title I agree - they are going to make a tonne more money. Just without a lot of their old audience and with a lot of new people. Thats fine. But they are (largely) dead to me and a bunch of others now.
Hodinkee is alive & well just changing course. When Ben Clymer chashes out & they got a new CEO & forty million investment it was obvious things would change.
@@juniorjohnson5961 that's for sure. They all left for better deal. I don't understand why people act like hodinkee editors should have stayed there forever, not like they had amazing jobs or anything.
Hey Hodinkee was my favorite thing Hodinkee did. I watched if for Jack. He’s so smart without being smug, that’s rare. Talking watches is going down hill, I guess I can unsubscribe now.
Like most higher horology channels they come across as way too pretentious for me. I do watch the odd episode. For the posh stuff I much prefer Marco at Swiss Watch channel or Watchfinder. I'm 50+ so have zero interest in Hodinkee's (or anyone's) lifestyle dross. Cheers 👍🏻👍🏻
WatchBox is grey market dealer that’s all about selling used watches. They only offer info that’s found on brands websites. Tim as pretentious as he is, only tells you what’s on the watch brochure. WatchBox is far from a proper lifestyle channel. I mean would you take advice from a guy who wears 80’s sunglasses upside down on his head. While talking about $100k timepieces
I think I agree - but again watchbox is running away from the idea of being a lifestyle channel as fast as it can. Thats exactly what it doesnt intend to be.
Hodinkee is trying to get younger and hipper. Jack was too much of dorky scientist. I was never a fan of his. He was far too technical to draw any passion. Best Content: 1. Watchfinder period
I think the detailed tech stuff was for people who are passionate about horology already. I agree he was the dorky scientist but some of us don’t mind that and actually like it.
@@PeteMcConvillWatches In WatchBox defense... non-filtered, proper lighting, super ultra HD macro shots make a watch more that it really is. So when Tim features watches for sale. That's as close as looking at a watch in person. When it comes to lifestyle videos. Ultra HD is understandable. I think UA-camrs have come to a point where each watch channel has their own way of recording content. Many channels have improved, but all are different in video quality. For me Watch Finder offers the best HD macro shots on UA-cam. Hodinkee offers the best lifestyle HD video quality.
For me the Hodinkee travel clock 🕰 was the misstep that plunged them off the cliff. Neither WatchBox or Hodinkee matter much to me as I’m probably never going to spend a buttload of money 💰 with them.
“I think the Hodinkee of 2008 would hate the Hodinkee of today.”
-unknown
I was acquainted with Jack way back in college, and the 'Hey Hodinkee' Jack isn't forced -- that's who he really is.
Im not sure if Im more disappointed in him or me in being wrong then.
@@PeteMcConvillWatches To each his own but in my opinion, Jack's personality on his "Hey Hodinkee" videos seemed very natural and not out of place at all. Almost reminds me of the Breaking Bad character, Gale, and his nerdy sense of humor he exhibited in a lot of his role. A little awkward (purposefully most likely) but all dad jokes, puns and punchlines usually being secondary to the educational content that he was driving towards.
Fratello and Monochrome are far more engaging for the enthusiast I think.
Add Worn & Wound and Time+Tide to that list as well. :)
Jack was my favorite person at HODINKEE. I was saddened when Cara and then Steve left. I guess it’s time for me to move on.
When I hear corpo-buzzwords like “storytellers” and “style verticals”, I know it’s not my kind of party.
yeah I think the words "style vertical" were the final nail in the coffin
Don’t agree that Hey Hodinkee was forced. I think it showed a side of him maybe that was more casual and youth friendly. But not forced, quite honest actually.
While I don't know much about Hodinkee B-TC (Before Travel Clock), what I have seen since is that focus on Celebrity, rather than the actual Timepieces. Their message seems to be 'These are cool people that like watches', where as a channel like Watchbox is 'These are cool watches'.
Unfortunately Hodinkee is not what it used to be anymore. The departure of Jack Foster along other key senior editors is going to weight heavily on the overall editorial quality of Hodinkee.
I think Watchbox has plenty of room to grow and they can have a massive success working along with Jack Foster.
Unfortunately Hodinkee is more an e commerce platform now than an interesting horological publication.
Ever since Joe Thompson left Hodinkee, I stopped visiting the site too.
Absolutely agree with the Travel Clock and comments about making Jack F “hip”. From day one I thought that was a terrible move. His whole zen approach was what made him so unique in the industry, even going back to his WatchTime days. I’ll always keep HODINKEE in my wheelhouse, but James Stacey is my last close connection with the brand.
My favourite at the moment is Revolution
I think that fratello watches is taking the place of hodinkee or at least I'm leaning towards them
Going back and thinking about the content Im actually clicking on and reading/watching/listening to purely for myself I'd say Fratello is looming larger and larger for me.
Jack is for a very nerd-oriented crowd and Watchbox has that crowd with Tim... but in a less refined way (not that Jack is super elegant but...)... I believe in style... I use my cycling sunglasses while riding and not as a tiara while working. Hodinkee feels different... Ben is now happy collecting cars, let's give him that amazingly earned pleasure.
I knew something was up when they made that Bambino value proposition article. LOL. That was odd.
As a person with an education in journalism and some past as an editor in the late 90-ties, I wish there was a 'positive' answer to your question. But I don't think we live in a day and age of quality journalism anymore. At least not for free. This would have to be paid content. No matter if you look at Hodinkee, Worn&Wound, or any other popular places, you will always notice how they are fed news and sponsored by companies. And they supplement this income with 'shops' which would be a ridiculous idea at any journalism school 25 years ago. But here we are. The real quality opinion still can be found in some smaller YT (yours included!) channels or at WUS if one has the patience to dive into a discussion with people. Lukasz
"back-in-my-day-everything-was-better" *yawn*.
To be honest I can live with these guys selling product etc. Its 2022 and the world is different. But there are steps people can take to separate editorial from sales, they can be transparent about these controls and still develop trust. My issue is that they dont - places like Hodinkee etc tend to just act like its no big deal and expect us to be fine with whatever they choose to do.
I find it particularly hilarious when they then poke at watch companies for not being transparent about things like inhouse movements etc.
@@PeteMcConvillWatches Well, they don't do this (separation) because it hurts the business. What you need as a person selling sponsorships is a direct influence on the editorial side. So selling and reviewing create a conflict.
Very interesting and smart analysis, imho. I fear Mr. Forster will be put in a sales role that's as unsuitable for him as was the performance role, and we'll read less from him. My guess is that Hodinkee is as interested as moving high-end watches as is Watchbox so letting Mr. Forster is a bit of a puzzle. Ben Clymer has always been interested in the "lifestyles of the rich and famous"-type life, so losing Mr. Forster's intellectual gravitas may be a mistake. As an aside, I share your interest in travel watches, and am finding that type of content across many different outlets. I'm finding that Worn and Wound is growing more serious and comprehensive and I enjoy their site quite a bit, more than Hodinkee these days, tbh.
I'm a fan of Worn & Wound Myself
I also thought of Worn and Wound while watching this. They are certainly more interested in the accessible watches, and humbler demographic, that Hodinkee may be leaving behind.
Hay HODINKEE was my favorite show even for my teenager son, couldn’t feel that he was forced to do, it’s a matter of who he was.
Look forward to seeing new chapter of HODINKEE and Watch box.
I think the best of Tim is on his Monday live streams. That is where he tends to give his honest opinion about things. Lots of information but he's also more free to be himself. Really hoping Tim and Jack do some content like that together
There's good stuff in those livestreams but I just cant wade through them. Also, I fear his shoutouts and call ups veer a little to close to wealth rather than watch enthusiasm for me.
I rather like Jack and I have grown to rather dislike hodinkee, so that is a move I approve of.
08:10 That, just that Peter, i don't really care. Your "what/why happened" analysis is right, but the whole matter's ending leaves me cold as ice. Plus, the "feel and think" thing is just another fancy wrapping paper to sell, won't buy unless the product is in my interest, unfortunately (and i say this in despair and sorrow) if it is, it's beyond my (economical) reach. So, i just enjoy the show, no matter who's playing.
Cheers mate, another hit on the nail on an(other!) analysis by you, you're damn good at this and you know (it!). Be well.
Again, really thoughtful content Pete. I’m mulling over the implications of it all.
The most important thing to grey market dealers is faith and trust in the company. They are investing in their brand image. It has a positive effect even if he is completely behind the scenes.
Agree. And if he's really good people might actually forget they are just an another grey market dealer and embrace watchbox as some form of club/community/clique.
After what they did to wathcville I certainly deleted their app, my account with them and canceled them 100% in every possible way. I know people who did the same. Will it kill hodinkee? Probably not. But certainly it wouldn’t help. Watchbox, which previously was ‘tim mosso on youtube’ for me, would probably grow into something bigger and better.
I believe that outside of Ben Clymer, Jack was the only true watch expert at Hodinkee and although their other presenters and authors are creative in their own way, they lack the credibility and authority in terms of expertise to deliver confident verdicts on ultra-important and significant watches and thus most of them are stuck to the affordable segment of the industry with reviews focused on lifestyle relevance of timepieces rather than the in-depth anatomy of the technical prominence of a watch. With Jack gone, they are even more limited in that aspect now and what I have observed for the past couple of months is that their UA-cam content is almost dead and non-existent. I mean we are not here for 1-minute hands-on advertisement styled spec-sheet reviews.
We don't hear from Pulvirent anymore also.
T Mosso and Jack Forster on the same video? Man, I’m really looking forward to that
I agree “I don’t really care”. I like Jack’s content. I really like Watch Box’s content. Will the combined content be better - maybe, maybe not. I’ll still be watching. 😁
Hodinkee seem to have lost it, the market has changed.
Agree with everything you said. Have been down to Revolution more recently but I think they may head in the same direction as Hodinkee. Hope not.
I read hodinkee from close to day one and I don’t anymore. I can’t relate to it anymore. The nail in the coffin for me was when they absorbed crown and caliber and did away with Nathan’s videos and converted the Hey, how’s that work with Luca into Hey Hodinkee. Hodinkee is overproduced and stuffy and gets away with their content because it’s Hodinkee. Just look how they sell their vintage watches within hours when the watches aren’t really anything special. Their customers buy their watches because it’s for sale one Hodinkee, not because it’s rare, particularly good condition or comes with all the accessories.
Hodinkee is no longer for the masses, they cater to an upscale demographic and I’m not feeling it.
Monochrome, time and tide and Fratello are my go to sites now and You’re terrific is my favorite YT channel.
Good video!
Pete, I think that WatchBox is still evolving. I agree with you that the Forster hiring makes sense in the context of the Uber luxury watch market. WatchBox does at the over $50,000 watch level compete with the major auction houses as a place to buy and sell. The auction catalogue, exhibition and sale process is much too elongated. If WatchBox can establish itself as a world premier sales medium for the best watches in the world, this move makes a great deal of sense as does WatchBox’s international presence. The mass mid tier watch brokerage is akin to selling Cessna 150s and knowing that down the field is an operation where people are selling later generation Gulfstreams. With a global downturn, a pronounced and even definitive move to the high end may make sense for the WatchBox business model.
Something I was thinking also is that in a number of interviews Danny(?) Govberg has remarked that 75ish% of their income comes from 3 brands of watches that trade as commodities - Rolex, Patek, AP. Bringing in Jack would be a smart move in diversifying that sales footprint and walking people with a lot of money but little watch background to other brands - perhaps easing some 'trader' money to actual 'watch' money.
@@PeteMcConvillWatches I just want you to know that I truly value your watch rambles. Perhaps being based in Australia gives you enough distance to see things without the pressures of crowd think.
You nailed it, I think Hodinkees ultimate bad turn was the hodinkee shop which blew up and took over the companies priorities
Actually I'm not that much of a purist - I think the mistake was not releasing the danger of the shop (or realising and responding poorly) and not putting in the right protections (such as chinese walls between editorial and sales).
On the subscribers and likes thing, have you thought about making that suggestion at the top of the video rather than the end. A lot go channels do a "I'm bla bla and I talk about yada yada, if you're into that sort of thing subscribe to the channel and hit the like button so you don't miss out on any similar content. With that said let's get into video..."
Some very valid points made. Hodinkee hasn’t been my cup of tea for a while which is a shame. I miss the old one.
True. I see Hodinkee moving this way also. The problem for them is that the luxury journalism space is crowded. Not surprising with all those junkets. Robb Report and GQ (to name two) are bigger, more established and have a roster of relatively serious contributors. Hodinkee has been getting lighter and lighter and for a while has been outclassed by smaller operations, eg Fratello. I miss 'The Truth About Watches...' As for Jack - I suspect Mosso lacks the gravitas and people skills needed to tempt the big fish into diversifying their multimillion $$ collections away from the obvious, to the abstruse. If Watchbox can 'do a Journe' with other independents such as De Bethune etc etc (which WB have been stockpiling for months), he will be well worth the investment. That said, how he integrates with Mosso on camera will be interesting. I'd keep them separate (both are awkward and prickly - fine for watch nerds, but not investor bros). But how do you do that without relegating (and potentially losing) Tim?
It will be really interesting to see how the Mosso/Forster team works. I agree, I'd probably only bring them together occasionally and/or in a panel kind of arrangement.
Love the industry & product analysis Pete, you're one of the few youtubers covering this
thanks
More like Hoodwinki - hyping then selling
i do hope Hodinkee sticks arounds and thrives. This is only way acceptable and good welcome way to increase new people to the community. Can you imagine you or Paul Pluta or Paul Thorpe being a representative of the watch community to the external world? Jesus!
Im sure Hodinkee will be fine, in fact I suspect it will thrive - it is just likely to do that with a different cohort to that which was with it 'back in the day'. And I agree with you, is Hodinkee perfect? no, is it 1000% better than places like Archie and Nico? Yep.
The monetary component while not wrong however blowing it out of proportion makes you lose a lot of your original audience who came to you for independability as their primary priority.
Now I appreciate the balance that both Revolution and Fartello are still maintaining and hope they don't follow in Hodinkee misjudged route.
Will Jack's arrival be the excuse Tim Mosso needs to quit? He's talked about it, after all.
Unfortunately the business need to sell watches has taken over - think the balance is no longer there. It seems to be the norm for these channels and starting to see similar signs at Worn an Wound - less straight reviews than there used to be. More content directed towards watches within the shop. Not at the level of Hodinkee but can see signs.
Let's hope Jack doesn't come near to Tim. Tim is just fine as is.
Hodinkee's lifestyle aspirations have been obvious for a long time. Their preference for Leica and 911's should have been a clue. If I had to pin the start of their descent I would have said when they first plotted the Hodinkee magazine. But their aspirations were obvious to the observant way before that.
I don't think there is any current site that can grow a community in the way Hodinkee did. Certainly there is no amateur watch lover site, channel or podcast with the potential to grow into a community first position. The current sites have all figured out how to turn a hobby into a business and now a hobbyist community builder can't compete.
Does the current watch community even need another "origin Hodinkee:? It is a lot bigger and much more tribal now than it was then. There is also a lot less room for outsiders such as yourself. Brands controlling access has always been an issue in any mass market driven industry and is a particular issue with watches now.
So Jack Forster moving is pretty irrelevant. I was going to make a TGV joke but you grabbed that opportunity. As far as I'm concerned Mr. FOrster is going to disappear into obscurity and I won't miss him and neither do I think it matters.
I used to date Jack, we had our ups and downs, but he was never into watches, so I think his career is very disingenuous.
With regards to Hodinkee : same as living creatures, companies have a lifecycle . Maybe 10ish years , with the old team headed by Ben Clymer, was it, no more. Hodinkee is dead, long live Hodinkee.
Jack seemed out of place because he was actually knowledgeable. Ben is knowledgeable for sure, but I think he's more interested in the bottom line these days. There's no real art or appreciation for watch history going on at there these days. Case in point they sell an increasingly expanding number of watches but is no effort to curate what's being offered. Anything they can sell for a buck they are
I like TGV from the Urban Gentry. By "like", I guess what I mean is that he seems like a nice guy with some interesting things to say. But I never did understand his collaboration (short lived as it turned out) with Watchbox. TGV's whole thing is affordable watches. How could that possibly marry with Watchbox? I'm not being wise after the event; I can clearly remember thinking to myself: 'Huh? Is Brian Govberg trying to sell more Casios or Seikos? Really??'🤔 Watchbox, it seems to me, is all about the universe above Rolex. Watchbox is about Lange, Journe, Patek...et al.
I half wonder whether they expected him to switch his focus to the Über-league? But then again, he probably wouldn't have brought a lot of his fans along. So yeah, it was weird. (This new dude from Hodinkee will give them what they want though, no doubt.)
Bringing TGV to Watchbox was simply a move to bring the former's viewership over to the latter, at least in my opinion.
I totally agree - go to a site like social blade and look at watchbox studios results when TGV joined - they absolutely skyrocketed.
Really admire Jack's watch knowledge but I can do without reading a couple of thousand words on the function of a balance cock or other deeply technical stuff. Hodinkee will be fine.
Despite my incredibly click baity title I agree - they are going to make a tonne more money. Just without a lot of their old audience and with a lot of new people. Thats fine. But they are (largely) dead to me and a bunch of others now.
Yep, another astute and apposite overview.
Hodinkee is alive & well
just changing course. When Ben Clymer chashes out & they got a new CEO & forty million investment it was obvious things would change.
I'm thinking Jack also got more money & a better contract
@@juniorjohnson5961 that's for sure. They all left for better deal. I don't understand why people act like hodinkee editors should have stayed there forever, not like they had amazing jobs or anything.
Watchbox reviews are excruciatingly dull. I can read a spec sheet myself.
Hey Hodinkee was my favorite thing Hodinkee did. I watched if for Jack. He’s so smart without being smug, that’s rare. Talking watches is going down hill, I guess I can unsubscribe now.
I was hit and miss with hey hodinkee - for me it worked about 50% of the time.
Like most higher horology channels they come across as way too pretentious for me. I do watch the odd episode. For the posh stuff I much prefer Marco at Swiss Watch channel or Watchfinder. I'm 50+ so have zero interest in Hodinkee's (or anyone's) lifestyle dross.
Cheers 👍🏻👍🏻
Im a watch collector but give zero fuk about Hodinkee & WB!
good for you
WatchBox is grey market dealer that’s all about selling used watches. They only offer info that’s found on brands websites. Tim as pretentious as he is, only tells you what’s on the watch brochure. WatchBox is far from a proper lifestyle channel. I mean would you take advice from a guy who wears 80’s sunglasses upside down on his head. While talking about $100k timepieces
I think I agree - but again watchbox is running away from the idea of being a lifestyle channel as fast as it can. Thats exactly what it doesnt intend to be.
Super rich want to buy their 3 hand tourbillion from a youtube celebrity
yep, they'll love the personal treatment at the watchbox corp box in dubai
wise content
Talk about click bait!
unashameably so
I concur
Hodinkee is trying to get younger and hipper. Jack was too much of dorky scientist. I was never a fan of his. He was far too technical to draw any passion.
Best Content:
1. Watchfinder period
I think the detailed tech stuff was for people who are passionate about horology already. I agree he was the dorky scientist but some of us don’t mind that and actually like it.
😒 ƤＲＯ𝓂Ｏ𝕤ᗰ
Video quality at WatchBox is crap. Amateur studio set up.
totally agree - but I suspect thats not an accident.
@@PeteMcConvillWatches In WatchBox defense... non-filtered, proper lighting, super ultra HD macro shots make a watch more that it really is. So when Tim features watches for sale. That's as close as looking at a watch in person. When it comes to lifestyle videos. Ultra HD is understandable. I think UA-camrs have come to a point where each watch channel has their own way of recording content. Many channels have improved, but all are different in video quality. For me Watch Finder offers the best HD macro shots on UA-cam. Hodinkee offers the best lifestyle HD video quality.
Hodinkee has been unwatchable to me for years now. Treacly, fawning segments over an over...lacking in substance and authenticity.
For me the Hodinkee travel clock 🕰 was the misstep that plunged them off the cliff. Neither WatchBox or Hodinkee matter much to me as I’m probably never going to spend a buttload of money 💰 with them.