"you know exactly where I'm going"? No. I have no idea. This was a randomly suggested video on UA-cam. I have no idea what you're talking about but the colors look nice
@@fRiX15 Look at the color bar below that header, it shows what each color means as well as the current max velocity. By the way, the units are mm/second.
They mathematically modeled the wave fronts using analytic formulas and had various high speed camera, albeit with film. Analytical modeling is how von Neumann came up with a solution for the Pu core compression problem.
@@juliane__ and they were hand selected extremely smart, very math savvy people with near unlimited resources, i.e. people, to do the number crunching once the math was established.
@@jimmcneal5292 its also about cost, could you make an incredibly complex HEAT round that could achieve that level of precision? sure, but its probably more sensitive to handling and damage while in storage and the associated cost of both of those things.
@@solus48Not to mention you have to be able to produce a million of these things per year as they are consumable items so the design has to be simple and cheap.
Keep in mind, these designs rely on Overdriven Detonation with layered explosives. Instead of pure HMX, the warhead would be filled with a core of Comp-B for example, with a thin outside layer of HMX or RDX. The RDX/HMX layer is initiated first, which shocks and compresses the Comp-B, putting its detonation velocity well over 10km/s. Jet velocity can very well be above 20km/s.
Can you share more or any sources? My understanding was that overdriven detonation was very short acting. I have seen a sentence or two in various papers about nitromethane compressed then detonated via a starting charge to it but never the results you mentioned. Would love to learn more!!
"Fast Jets from collapsing cylinders" is the title of the paper, the images appear to be from a streak camera, which probably used a spinning mirror to scan a thin line of the image rapidly across a piece of film.
@@razerbrosdynamics3917 Shaped charges don't last very long in the atmosphere. They cool down from their plasticized state and quickly lose speed due to drag. Shaped charges have existed since the 1930s. If they were useful for railguns, they would exist by now.
@@jwstolk It's 100%. Computer chips turn every last joule into heat like a big resistive load. They just happen to use it to flip some transistor gates on its way through.
To achieve ring detonation from usual point detonator, try placing hollow/inert round dosc-like "lens" between point of detonation and cone tip of usual cone-shaped charge. That's one of main directions military shaped charges progress nowadays -- optimizing materials and shape of "lens"/explosive.
keep in mind that using a liner like beryllium can make the velocity of your jet increase because it's a much lighter atom, so it needs less kinectic energy to achieve the same velocity as a heavier atom like copper, so even though it is faster it doesn't necessarily have more kinectic energy, you should check that out because what you really want if the goal is to penetrate as much armour as possible is kinectic energy.
Some of the last designs seem almost like a modernized variant of something like the Panzerfaust, where in the shape was fully utilized instead of merely just the cone in the back of the design. All the same, good video to watch and enjoyable to learn from o7
Never thought you would use DEAF KEV Invincible, but it is a welcome choice nonetheless. Edit September 17, 2024: Bruh you changed the background music
one huge factor to consider with this cylindrical shaped charge is ease of manufacturing. some of these designs boast higher jet velocity, but timing secondary charges like that would require the kind of precision seen in nuclear weapons. having the most advanced weapons in the world means nothing if you cannot produce a large quantity and get it to the front lines
I think you will find that precision timing electronics have gotten smaller since 1945. I have been recently working with a 16GHz clock/timer that costs less than $1 per piece. No joke. (RC delay ring architecture)
Even tho the jet might be very tiny in size and have low mass... At those speeds it will pretty much go straight trough anything i guess. And some MAD dedication you put into this! Really cool stuff!
I think that when trying to get those high speeds the geometry of the warhead, machining and powder consistency must be very precise, otherwise the charge will explode sideways and the jet will not form, as just small deviations will cause what in my field we would call a standing wave. That's probably why they are not used that much.
Hello, and thanks for a great video! Long time ago, I've seen a research paper about novel shaped charges. I don't think I can find it, and I'm sure it even exists in open acess (through if it does I'll post a link). But the design they ended up with, which has supposedly shown 20-50% higher practical penetration values, was as follows (also, english isn't my first language, so forgive me): A regular, non inverted shaped charge cone. Except the walls look "crincled". Cone consists of a small number (6-8) of wall "segments", each of them is a linear shaped charge. Upon detonation, jets from them converge. From top down point of view, the cone looks like a star, and from the side like a cone. Not sure if it's possible to simulate it in 2d, but anyway, thought you might find it interesting.
@@squidwardfromua You really couldn't, best you could do is fit like 8 or more blasting caps around the ring, but achieving a perfect spherical Detonation is very difficult unless the explosive is Laser or Electrically Initiated an has a small mass.
Wires of just the right length to delay the signal from the controller to the explosives? So the main detonator sending the signal sends all the signals at the same time, but the length of the wire delays one set of signals by just enough. IIRC, there was one Russian radar system that needed a tenth of a millisecond delay from one circuit to another circuit right next to it. So the Russian system had ten feet of wire to delay the signal by just enough.
interesting work! it seems like there are some step change gains possible for shaped charges just from cunning geometry and timing... cool area of research
-At 4:00 you reseached The Hafthohlladung German, lit. "adhesive hollow charge", hand held, entered sevice in 1942 (germany) -At 4:10 you reseached Panzerfaust. early RPG, entered service in 1943 (germany) Congrats you reproduced the evolution of Chape charge!
At this point you're concentrating so much the implosion that you'll end up with a nuclear fission bomb alike, but with metal lining instead of near critical mass fuel. XD My suggestion would be to try an "egg" shaped lining (a rounded version of your last). 3 detonations like you were doing. Try both sides of the "egg"
I suspect in the real world that the challenge would be to achieve perfectly synchronous initiation of the explosive train from an ANNULAR detonator. 2d sim with perfectly timed starts isn't the same. The reason all current actual designs use a single point of detonation and assume a single expanding spherical wave front seems pretty obvious to me.
Someone else mentioned lenses. Seen plastic one near the base in rpg diagrams. It has to be a significant improvement to remove about a fifth of the warhead's payload.
Implies a perfect HE wih no real world imperfections. IRL there are always higher and lower pressures, which distort the ideal wavefront, what makes these ultra high performance shaped charges nearly impossible.
I’d love to see the inverted shaped charges tested on armor. Even cooler would be if you could reach out to ordnance lab and get them to test them in practice, they’ve been cooking up shapes charges not too long ago
When are we going to see the last design in a simulation? It looked awesome!! Can you tell us more about it? (Yeah I'm a huge nerd lol) Also, what software did you use?
First atom bomb detonated by ramming 2 subcritical rounds together to reach critical mass neutron density. I wonder if shaped charges are used nowadays with an extremely radioactive neutron source injected at 30km/second
İ didn't get the idea. İs that thick casing supposed to direct all of the force from explosion into tiny exit hole? Unlike other conventional shaped charge metal body/casings that gets completely destroyed into shrapnels during detonation, right? Or is it about timing chain detonations to achieve ultra high velocities?
The last frame's max velocity(?) says 1.3167e5 max... That's 131670 in normal notation... Bro just casually published a (simulated) 131km/s shaped charge design.
What simulation package you are using ? If it is reasonably fast you can use some sort of genetic algorithm to make random variations of the shape and detonation initiation points/timing and then select the best ones each round and make new variations of them ... and so on ...
26 km/s? 11.6 km/s is escape velocity. Bro is gonna shoot away like one of them looney toons ahh endings with the little twinkle at the end to show how far he's gone.
Watch a video of someone reinventing the implosive lens from first principles. Nobody ask him what happens if you use weapons grade uranium as a liner...
Are you trying to make time dilation a factor in testing shaped charge performance? Because with those velocities you will be making time dilation a factor in testing shaped charge performance.
no matter how good you make a shaped explosive, the average (depends on what type of average is used) speed will always be lower than what the ideal rocket equation gives.
So... 1/3 the speed of *LIGHT* !? Please don't misunderstand me, I really do appreciate the effort that went into this investigation, and I believe that you've done a great job indeed! However, I'd really like to see a sensitivity study done on this (i.e. By how much do the results change as you double: the mesh resolution, and thus also the total number of elements; as well as halving the minimum time step.). What you want is for these results to be reproducible over a wide range of spatial and temporal resolutions. A good published paper would, at a minimum, show the results to converge over an entire 3x3 matrix of configurations. That is, all combinations of 1x 2x and 4x of the original spatial and temporal resolutions. While this does, unfortunately, increase the computation time to something on the order of (1 + 2 + 4) + 2×(1 + 2 + 4) + 4×(1 + 2 + 4) = 49 times the original, it is important to show that you're not just sampling an artifact. Secondly, while these results may be theoretically possible, they seem to rely on pixel-perfect machining and fabrication of perfectly pure and homogeneous materials. Therefore I also wonder how sensitive the final velocity is to things like: The surface roughness and flatness of the constituent material interfaces; Material constant variations, such as inclusions of different density, strength and stiffness.
C is about 300'000 km/s. To get to 1/3 of that you need to reach 100'000 km/s. This is orders of magnitude faster than anything in this video, and in also coincidentally approximately the speed of electrical signals through copper, a limiting factor that must be considered in larger computer chips.
"you know exactly where I'm going"? No. I have no idea. This was a randomly suggested video on UA-cam. I have no idea what you're talking about but the colors look nice
So right, I still haven't understood where he got the speed from, I can just find unit: m/s but not how many
@@fRiX15 Look at the color bar below that header, it shows what each color means as well as the current max velocity. By the way, the units are mm/second.
The color is the speed
I understood some of the words
@@OneGlassNail thanks
The Department of Defense will be calling soon. They want to chat about something.
Probably about that f**cked up music.
Notice how the shape is the standard shape of an rpg
@@raptor_909 in an RPG the front of the cone is hollow, leaving just the standard rear cone.
Imagine how much time and resources this development process would take in 1952 when they had no computer simulation
They just went trial and error on the field and deduct from results.
Bet it was a lot of fun
They mathematically modeled the wave fronts using analytic formulas and had various high speed camera, albeit with film. Analytical modeling is how von Neumann came up with a solution for the Pu core compression problem.
They looked into their books from the 30ies...
@@juliane__ and they were hand selected extremely smart, very math savvy people with near unlimited resources, i.e. people, to do the number crunching once the math was established.
It remains to be seen how many meters of homogeneous armor this explosion penetrates.
*kilometers
It would also rely on how much mass is expelled. Ideally you want the most lining/metal jet as possible as fast as possible.
according to a calculator i found, 10 meters, assuming it has 10 cc of berylium.
Stop pretending to be smart just because you played War Thunder once.
@@murmenaattori6why are you being so needlessly aggressive?
The problem with translating this into the real world is having a mechanism that will trigger the detonations reliably at exactly the right timing.
Works in nuclear weapons
What about tandem charges?
@@jimmcneal5292 its also about cost, could you make an incredibly complex HEAT round that could achieve that level of precision? sure, but its probably more sensitive to handling and damage while in storage and the associated cost of both of those things.
@@solus48Not to mention you have to be able to produce a million of these things per year as they are consumable items so the design has to be simple and cheap.
@@solus48So like, tandem charges?
Keep in mind, these designs rely on Overdriven Detonation with layered explosives. Instead of pure HMX, the warhead would be filled with a core of Comp-B for example, with a thin outside layer of HMX or RDX. The RDX/HMX layer is initiated first, which shocks and compresses the Comp-B, putting its detonation velocity well over 10km/s. Jet velocity can very well be above 20km/s.
Can you share more or any sources? My understanding was that overdriven detonation was very short acting.
I have seen a sentence or two in various papers about nitromethane compressed then detonated via a starting charge to it but never the results you mentioned. Would love to learn more!!
Fascinating
a 131km/s shaped charge sounds pretty scary
If the mass is too small then sure it'll still penetrate anything, but not as deeply or with a smaller hole
Remember guys he’s NOT suicidal and if anything happens to him I blame “big tank”
Don't worry, "big anti-tank" will keep him safe. However, he probably won't get to see the light of day for a while...
90km/s, casual 11 obrital speeds at sea level 😅
Wait, how were they measuring the speed of the jet in the 1950's?
Shutter speed of a camera
High speed photography, open aperture with electrical lighting pulsing at fixed interval based on cycling of AC current.
one way I know is using a very fast spinning mirror and reflect images to multiple high speed cameras
@@kekw9716between you and me, we've just described the two ways to make a stroboscope
"Fast Jets from collapsing cylinders" is the title of the paper, the images appear to be from a streak camera, which probably used a spinning mirror to scan a thin line of the image rapidly across a piece of film.
Casual weapon simulation when drinking coffee in the morning. I love it.
The UA-cam tutorial music hits different when the background is conseptual high power HEAT warhead penetration tests
Legends have it the jet is still penetrating additional meters of homogeneous armor to this very day.
It was written there 131.67 Kilometers per second, what have you done? Are you trying to create a big bang?
That's 0.043% light speed!
@@kahlzun We have a good railgun design in the making here
@@razerbrosdynamics3917 Shaped charges don't last very long in the atmosphere. They cool down from their plasticized state and quickly lose speed due to drag. Shaped charges have existed since the 1930s. If they were useful for railguns, they would exist by now.
@@DoggosGames theyve been around since the early 1900s in industrial applications with the effect being discovered in the 1890s iirc.
That's incredible.
I would've never thought that inverted shaped charges would work
Can you test it against armor with conventional shape charge side to side
Dude, do you own a nasa pc? That was like 20 simulations
I think these are 2D simulations
@@rayhill1 lmao the corner actually tells the date, we see from 10/2023 to 3/2024 lol
@@qumit165 that's pretty cool, didn't even notice that. Some dedication here.
@@qumit165 It's a pretty efficient way to heat a home, about 99.999% of the energy used in the calculation is converted into heat.
@@jwstolk It's 100%. Computer chips turn every last joule into heat like a big resistive load. They just happen to use it to flip some transistor gates on its way through.
To achieve ring detonation from usual point detonator, try placing hollow/inert round dosc-like "lens" between point of detonation and cone tip of usual cone-shaped charge. That's one of main directions military shaped charges progress nowadays -- optimizing materials and shape of "lens"/explosive.
You can see a plastic lens in some rpg cut-away diagrams.
Yooo dude the amount of reserch and simulations is crazy, keep it up. Thanks for the effort.
We need more of that boiz.
Dare: real mango made out of metal with a speed of a soviet mango apfsd shell (or american i dont remember) vs modern bradly side armour
It will pen a real mango out of steel is like a 50-60 mm shell
No the mango made out of metal going the same speed of soviet mango apfsd against modern bradly side armour @@qumit165
@qumit165 Hypersonic 10kg ball of metal vs ifv = One very dead bradley
@@contemptordreadnoughtrealistically, it would lose velocity very fast
@@neurofiedyamato8763 Read the original comment
Oh boy I love the funky sim channel, always a good thing to see the recommendations
keep in mind that using a liner like beryllium can make the velocity of your jet increase because it's a much lighter atom, so it needs less kinectic energy to achieve the same velocity as a heavier atom like copper, so even though it is faster it doesn't necessarily have more kinectic energy, you should check that out because what you really want if the goal is to penetrate as much armour as possible is kinectic energy.
Going to test these real quick
1:11 what material did you test the penetration on?
this is a crazy amount of work, very interesting subject, thank you
2:00 was perfect. Like a drop of water bouncing in a still puddle.
I really wanna see some pen test with this stuff.
Some of the last designs seem almost like a modernized variant of something like the Panzerfaust, where in the shape was fully utilized instead of merely just the cone in the back of the design.
All the same, good video to watch and enjoyable to learn from o7
Aye, that last thing really like Panzerfaust. I hope it can pen 115 mm RHA steel.
The fastest *chemical* shaped charge. Casaba Howitzers and nuclear shaped charges would like to have a word with you.
Never thought you would use DEAF KEV Invincible, but it is a welcome choice nonetheless.
Edit September 17, 2024: Bruh you changed the background music
131,670 m/s is completely insane, if you manage to find a way to keep it from crashing, you've got to show us what that looks like against a building
Holy shit, sufficiently big shaped charge of that type would be able to snipe things in orbit...
WE NEED MORE OF THIS (penetration test and more)
We better see some penetration tests against different armor with that final design
Well, I finally understand how finnicky the conventional charge of an atom bomb is.
one huge factor to consider with this cylindrical shaped charge is ease of manufacturing. some of these designs boast higher jet velocity, but timing secondary charges like that would require the kind of precision seen in nuclear weapons.
having the most advanced weapons in the world means nothing if you cannot produce a large quantity and get it to the front lines
I think you will find that precision timing electronics have gotten smaller since 1945. I have been recently working with a 16GHz clock/timer that costs less than $1 per piece. No joke. (RC delay ring architecture)
That last one was a SPEEDY BOI
god damn, the manhole that we ejected from atmosphere with atomic blast is estimated to travel at 80km/s
Even tho the jet might be very tiny in size and have low mass... At those speeds it will pretty much go straight trough anything i guess.
And some MAD dedication you put into this! Really cool stuff!
this shit can even penetrate challenger 3’s turret front
I think that when trying to get those high speeds the geometry of the warhead, machining and powder consistency must be very precise, otherwise the charge will explode sideways and the jet will not form, as just small deviations will cause what in my field we would call a standing wave. That's probably why they are not used that much.
thats about 0.3% the speed of light, so this bullet became the fastest man made object... at 324000kmph...
Imagine volunteering to see how it looks from the inside of a test tank...
Looks like modern panzerfaust
Hello, and thanks for a great video! Long time ago, I've seen a research paper about novel shaped charges. I don't think I can find it, and I'm sure it even exists in open acess (through if it does I'll post a link). But the design they ended up with, which has supposedly shown 20-50% higher practical penetration values, was as follows (also, english isn't my first language, so forgive me):
A regular, non inverted shaped charge cone. Except the walls look "crincled". Cone consists of a small number (6-8) of wall "segments", each of them is a linear shaped charge. Upon detonation, jets from them converge. From top down point of view, the cone looks like a star, and from the side like a cone.
Not sure if it's possible to simulate it in 2d, but anyway, thought you might find it interesting.
In the last test are those 3 or 5 detonations? Is it 2d or really 3d?
2 detonations, 1 in a ring, one at the back
How do you even detonate the whole ring simultaneously irl?
@@squidwardfromua You really couldn't, best you could do is fit like 8 or more blasting caps around the ring, but achieving a perfect spherical Detonation is very difficult unless the explosive is Laser or Electrically Initiated an has a small mass.
Interesting design, although I think It would be tricky to detonate the second explosion wave at just the right time
Wires of just the right length to delay the signal from the controller to the explosives? So the main detonator sending the signal sends all the signals at the same time, but the length of the wire delays one set of signals by just enough.
IIRC, there was one Russian radar system that needed a tenth of a millisecond delay from one circuit to another circuit right next to it. So the Russian system had ten feet of wire to delay the signal by just enough.
@@toddkes5890exactly.. lol even simple CPU can delay those perfectly..
interesting work! it seems like there are some step change gains possible for shaped charges just from cunning geometry and timing... cool area of research
-At 4:00 you reseached The Hafthohlladung
German, lit. "adhesive hollow charge", hand held, entered sevice in 1942 (germany)
-At 4:10 you reseached Panzerfaust.
early RPG, entered service in 1943 (germany)
Congrats you reproduced the evolution of Chape charge!
At this point you're concentrating so much the implosion that you'll end up with a nuclear fission bomb alike, but with metal lining instead of near critical mass fuel. XD
My suggestion would be to try an "egg" shaped lining (a rounded version of your last). 3 detonations like you were doing. Try both sides of the "egg"
Soon, he'll have rebuild the trinity device with one hexagon and the core missing.
I suspect in the real world that the challenge would be to achieve perfectly synchronous initiation of the explosive train from an ANNULAR detonator. 2d sim with perfectly timed starts isn't the same. The reason all current actual designs use a single point of detonation and assume a single expanding spherical wave front seems pretty obvious to me.
This is so much greater than excape velocity.
40 Km/s is 144k Km/h and 90 Km/s is 324k Km/h. Its insanely fast.
Ordnance lab would like this video
Someone else mentioned lenses. Seen plastic one near the base in rpg diagrams. It has to be a significant improvement to remove about a fifth of the warhead's payload.
We need to see the other end of those simulations
epic experimentation
SHAPED CHAAAARGES
Surprising
mfw I put NFC music on a video about ammunition designed to return you home in form of swiss cheese
Implies a perfect HE wih no real world imperfections.
IRL there are always higher and lower pressures, which distort the ideal wavefront, what makes these ultra high performance shaped charges nearly impossible.
You gotta do a penetration test of the 6 point detonation charge!
Would be cool to see some explosive lens simulations.
I’d love to see the inverted shaped charges tested on armor. Even cooler would be if you could reach out to ordnance lab and get them to test them in practice, they’ve been cooking up shapes charges not too long ago
imagine this is the water when pooping
let bro cook
Its neat but you can do many analog waveform amplifiers in a row and reach much higher speeds effectively creating a material laser. They are neat.
I loved this video. Please keep making more. Also, how many mm of solid metal can you penetrate with this?
You end up with an RPG 7 projectile.
banger music choice
When are we going to see the last design in a simulation? It looked awesome!!
Can you tell us more about it? (Yeah I'm a huge nerd lol)
Also, what software did you use?
First atom bomb detonated by ramming 2 subcritical rounds together to reach critical mass neutron density. I wonder if shaped charges are used nowadays with an extremely radioactive neutron source injected at 30km/second
İ didn't get the idea. İs that thick casing supposed to direct all of the force from explosion into tiny exit hole? Unlike other conventional shaped charge metal body/casings that gets completely destroyed into shrapnels during detonation, right? Or is it about timing chain detonations to achieve ultra high velocities?
The last frame's max velocity(?) says 1.3167e5 max... That's 131670 in normal notation... Bro just casually published a (simulated) 131km/s shaped charge design.
What software are you using? Looks very interesting
There is good reason why cylindrical charges didnt catch on.
What simulation package you are using ? If it is reasonably fast you can use some sort of genetic algorithm to make random variations of the shape and detonation initiation points/timing and then select the best ones each round and make new variations of them ... and so on ...
That will take months of computing time... Which is faster than if we were to do this physically
26 km/s?
11.6 km/s is escape velocity.
Bro is gonna shoot away like one of them looney toons ahh endings with the little twinkle at the end to show how far he's gone.
nice
Watch a video of someone reinventing the implosive lens from first principles.
Nobody ask him what happens if you use weapons grade uranium as a liner...
Are you trying to make time dilation a factor in testing shaped charge performance? Because with those velocities you will be making time dilation a factor in testing shaped charge performance.
I wonder how they designed these things before proper computers. Lots and lots of trial and error?
banging music
nice video and fucking fire music 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
What if you just made that first cylinder one really really long
Bro, I dodnt even know why i am here
Nuclear shaped charge when
So... Real test next! :D
Are you using ansys? There might be a way to do geometric optimization, and even add in some genetic algorithms!
Hi, what software do you use for simulation? Ansys?
I think you need to call the SloMo Guys and have your designs tested... 😊
What software are you using?
Ls dyna?
no matter how good you make a shaped explosive, the average (depends on what type of average is used) speed will always be lower than what the ideal rocket equation gives.
I think to increase speed you'd want to use explosive lenses to get more simultaneous detonation.
So... 1/3 the speed of *LIGHT* !?
Please don't misunderstand me, I really do appreciate the effort that went into this investigation, and I believe that you've done a great job indeed!
However, I'd really like to see a sensitivity study done on this (i.e. By how much do the results change as you double: the mesh resolution, and thus also the total number of elements; as well as halving the minimum time step.).
What you want is for these results to be reproducible over a wide range of spatial and temporal resolutions. A good published paper would, at a minimum, show the results to converge over an entire 3x3 matrix of configurations. That is, all combinations of 1x 2x and 4x of the original spatial and temporal resolutions.
While this does, unfortunately, increase the computation time to something on the order of (1 + 2 + 4) + 2×(1 + 2 + 4) + 4×(1 + 2 + 4) = 49 times the original, it is important to show that you're not just sampling an artifact.
Secondly, while these results may be theoretically possible, they seem to rely on pixel-perfect machining and fabrication of perfectly pure and homogeneous materials.
Therefore I also wonder how sensitive the final velocity is to things like: The surface roughness and flatness of the constituent material interfaces; Material constant variations, such as inclusions of different density, strength and stiffness.
Speed of light is 300 000 km/s not 300 000m/s
C is about 300'000 km/s. To get to 1/3 of that you need to reach 100'000 km/s. This is orders of magnitude faster than anything in this video, and in also coincidentally approximately the speed of electrical signals through copper, a limiting factor that must be considered in larger computer chips.
With calculus you could find the optimal design
this isn't supercharge truck mania,where am I?......
Can you align them around a central point and have the force of each act equally on said central point? Asking for a friend.
Escape velocity from earth is 11.2km/s...
Wow, what sowfware do you use?