Thank you, Rick. This video comes at an important time for me. I started down the drum path at age 13 in 1961. At the time, traditional grip was what we did because, well, it's what we did. I (and others) looked down on matched grip as amateurish b/c learning traditional grip was a Rite of Passage for serious drummers. That lasted 10 years until 1971 when I got drafted. Somehow, one thing led to another, and I never got back to my previous life. Fifty-plus years later I'm retired and decided to take up the drums again. I've learned that drums and drumming have changed appreciably in the intervening time. One of the challenges I set for myself was to learn matched grip. (Another is to explore heel-up bass drum technique, but that's another story.) I'm struggling to get my weak (left) hand strokes to sound like my strong hand, but think I can get it down by age 80. Wish me luck.
So far I made two long-term switches: Self-studied, I played (mainly pop & rock) matched grip from about 1983 to 2002. When practicing during that time, I also tried out traditional grip now and then. Then one concert night, without thinking or making a conscious decision, I tilted my snare drum and applied traditional grip right from the sound check. I felt completely "at home" with it. The next 20 years I completely ignored matched grip. No dogma or specific reason other than just that it felt better. Until one day when I was practicing at the drum set and tried a few things with matched grip. It felt so ok that I immediately started applying matched grip and stayed with that since then. So I had 20 years matched, 20 years traditional, and now it is matched again. Perhaps I should mix them more. I laugh a lot when hearing/reading endless discussions. The advantages of matched grip have all been said (just not yet by everybody) but if I was asked what is good about traditional grip I would say: (a) An asymmetric use of hands can trigger creativity. (b) Trad. can also support ergonomics: For me it takes only a small rotating move with the left wrist to be on the high tom and the move to the floor tom feels lighter as well. (c) The most important is: No rational needed! If trad. grip feels good and inspiring for the drummer, then it is the right grip. People who have not mastered it should not argue against it. It is arts, not science. No need to proof why one of the two feels better.
Rick been watching you for a while now. I was. Taught traditional and really feel comfortable. However , I have really tried match with no comfort but been playing since early 60s . We have talked many times. I really feel you are a classic and professional drummer by every sense of the word.I still will play traditional but am working hard on both. Excellent video Rick and Thank you.
Been playing for 51 years and have always used both. Played traditional in marching band and matched with my rock band. Playing jazz, I have the feeling that the drum kit is not a symmetrical instrument. Right does its thing, left does its very special thing… that’s how I look at.
I've been a traditional grip drummer for 68 years starting in 1956 being taught right out the J. Burns Moore book. I was never a professional drummer having only played set drumming a few time with a band. But my thought, and I believe other drummers I have known, considered the traditional left hand grip to be a disadvantage. The fact you state about have fewer fingers on the stick being an advantage was considered just the opposite by some on both sides of the discussion, Mitch Marcovitch (sp?) made that opposing argument. I'm not taking sides on this, except that an issue I have developed in my left hand control in my elder years is that when performing double stroke rolls, my left hand begins to buzz or multiple bounce instead of clean two beats. Then if I turn my hand around to a match grip, the rolls cleans up nicely. I still perform generally better traditional grip, but then I am not truly a match grip player (outside of practicing that way). Just a little anecdote. Thanks for this and all your great videos. I wish I had you available in my younger years!
Hi Rick, I'm a big fan of your channel and I think it's the best on UA-cam. I've been playing matched since I was a kid, then some years ago I spent a lot of time studying traditional. One thing that I immediately noticed is that playing traditional also improved my matched: my left hand has strengthened a lot since then. I still play 80% matched, because I feel more comfortable with it, but I totally agree that serious players should study both. Thanks for sharing your immense knowledge with the drum community. Greetings from Italy.
Good words Rick. It took me 52 years to get comfortable with both grips. I too use trad for brushes, jazz & intricate playing, I love the subtleties trad can bring to the music. I can't say I have a definitive preference though unless I am playing (Thanks to my time w/Gary Chester from '83 - '86) left hand lead stuff on the left side of the kit, that necessitates matched. I just would add for the younger student to remember, drumming is a life-long endeavor. It's not like riding a bicycle that you can learn in a day. Drumming takes a lifetime, take your time and explore everything out there to elevate yourself. Ya know who fools alot of dudes with matched grip...Bill Stewart, he plays a light stick but more so he icuts the subtleties with his left hand matched. A great drummer for sure.
Great explanation mr. Dior! I think the main diference in both grips is the position of the hand in relation to the stick. And that's a big diference because the stick rebounds lighter with traditional grip, so when you want emulate certain comp triplets ala Elvin or Philly and certain solo figures, it's a part of the language and phrasing to know. I think that a hard backbeat needs more weight and power and for that reason it's more confortable to play with matched grip. Of course, there are exceptions, but I think that the main reason to choose one grip or another is to express closer to the sound you've got in mind. And of course, there is a lineage that it has to be respected and studied.
Perfectly timed content thanks Rick. I'm really enjoying the rudimental bit of my practice, playing Mr Rudiments comfortably now, looking for the next challenges. I was just starting to wonder if I should learn traditional grip as well and this is a clear yes. I'm really interested in brushes, that quiet sound is very nice for me, and I feel like when I'm playing a ride pattern with my right hand a trad grip for the snare might be easier or more intuitive. I know what we're doing next lesson. I quite like those sticks too with the grain up one side.
I agree with Rick. If you are teaching a young or new student percussionist, you should give them the opportunity and guidance to learn both grips. If they are to continue their journey in percussion they will need both for the many percussion instruments they will encounter over their lifetime. If you want a deeper dive into the human anatomy, physics of movement, bone and muscle strength required to produce the movement necessary to approach all percussion instruments, ask your orthopedic physician about it. I broke both my wrists 20 yrs ago in an accident. Great information Rick, looking forward to more content!
Hi Rick! I started playing traditional grip around 1997, when I was 21. By 2000 I was able to play traditional in the studio. I started in 86, so I played matched for ten years. I never recommended to my students to learn traditional, but I'd show them. I did however teach the ones going to high school for drum corps traditional. I play in mostly heavy bands. The Regal Tip Groover or 5B W were my sticks of choice. I love the Vic Firth 5A and 5B Doubleglaze, though! The sound they get out of my drums and cymbals is just gorgeous. I'm very happy to be so pleased with such a pedestrian type of stick. I play heavy but I don't hit really hard. Anyways, love the topic, and thank you for the clarification.
Thanks for your excellent videos! I started playing 59 yrs ago doing traditional grip with the Haskell Harr book. I picked up matched for timpani and mallets and then drumset playing in my first rock band in junior high. It just felt right for that style, but traditional has always felt best for jazz. Like you said, some things just work better for each grip. Of course, every jazz drummer switches to matched for Latin grooves. Both grips have a place in the tool box.
Great Video Rick... I play traditional grip and have been for 25 years. However, before College I played matched exclusively. I love traditional grip. The feel is so different.
Love your content,Rick....You are a real guy.In 60+ years of drumming and teachingI studied with Jim Chapin and Ed Shaughnessy,and I play all grips and teach all grips.I play mostly traditional, but most students play matched.several play both.I also show French,all the Moeller,Gruber,Adler,Murray Sivack,just so they know what's out there...Keep on going...I love this stuff.Ay 73,I still teach and play.
Here’s something else you might not have heard (at least, not often). I come from decades of playing the guitar and bass professionally. When I started to learn drumming, the traditional grip came very naturally to me. In retrospect, I think that the upturned fretting hand position that made most sense to me: all I had to do was lower my hands, grab a pair of sticks, and I already had the basics of the traditional grip. That said, I still struggle with the matched grip. I only use it occasionally, when I’m playing cross-stick and need to reach for the toms. This is probably where piano players will have the advantage. (Although, I learned to play the piano years before I learned to play the guitar.)
When I was younger I was bored one day while practicing and decided to try out traditional grip in my DOMINANT / LEADING hand for fun. I started practicing it regularly and eventually caught it up to my non-dominant hand. Pretty useless for drum set but it's fun to bust out every once in a while to boggle other drummers!
Thanks for continuing your great videos - learned early (70') traditional but now have some physical limitations that are resulting in trying matched gip- learning all over! thanks
Thanks for a great video focusing on the grips. I, though slightly older than you, grew up playing traditional for Drum Corp (matched for tenor drum), Jazz, and even rock-n-roll. However, back in the 70s, early 80s I did use matched when playing strong back-beat, with rim shot, for the reason you mentioned. In fact I usually turned the stick over and played matched with the butt end. These days I play almost exclusively traditional, of course with the exception of cross-stick to toms. Now when I play with younger musicians, regardless of the genre, and I use traditional, they say you must be a jazz drummer.😄
Good video. I figured some more benefits of the trad grip i think are quite fundamental. There are also other benefits of playing matched, when you have a huge setup playing a broadway show for example. Btw if you play Burton grip on vibes, the inner mallets are practically played as a traditional grip, at least it’s the same movement, and for me the same feel
I remember articles in Modern Drummer magazine and elsewhere, (in the late 1970s/early 1980s) where some doctors, who also played drums, discussed the idea that matched grip uses about 7 major muscle groups, whereas traditional grip uses about 21 smaller muscle groups. Most agreed that a great player should be able to do both, because it gives you more freedom in creating sounds. (i.e., traditional grip "stick shots") Buddy Rich was notorious for saying something like "You can't play anything with matched grip", and then tearing into an mind-boggling solo section with crossovers, etc., using it. And... Buddy and the other greats you mentioned had no problem playing with great power, using traditional grip. So... As you said, there are valid reasons for using both methods. It's not a contest. :)
Great points. I learned matched for several years and switched to traditional when I got to college. Never looked back personally. It allows me just as much freedom now but a much easier time to get the sound in my head comping in jazz. I do find match grip easier for loud rim shots though
Used Traditional grip from the late 60s to now. You are right, it works great with brushes. However, I’m trying insert more Match grip in my playing. I think it does improve skill.
That's very interesting Rick. I think that traditional grip helps those with a natural disparity in the hands to develop a good technique and sound with both hands. I'm not much of a traditional grip player - I'm a prominently left handed player who has played open handed (on a right handed kit setup) for many years. I learnt right handed initially and I'm pretty much ambidextrous so I don't find traditional grip that useful for me. I certainly see the benefit of learning it however and I've pursued it a little (right hand cross stick) cos I like it for playing jazz. Thanks again Rick and best wishes to all
I took lessons from 2 different teachers in jr and sr high school. One was an orchestral percussionist. Drummers from all over the country would take lessons from him just to strengthen their left hand. The other was a jazz drummer who played open concept, a technique by which either hand could play ride which completely opened up the flow. The point is each technique had its place. Match tends to work best for power. Traditional tends to work best for more intricate applications. However be practical, use what works the best for you.
Benefit of traditional I also feel in (advanced) funk. From a snare drum hit to a hi hat hit is just a short, fast and light move of fingers with traditional grip. With matched going from a snare hit to a hi hat hit is a big move with also wrist and underarm involved. In 16th disco however I often use matched grip. In marching band in a long march event we often play the same list of songs very often, so it becomes a routine, and ...without pause. There i learned to switch grips and switch leading hand to relax the muscles. So i can start right with matched grip, Start right with traditional grip, Startt left with matched and traditional grip. We had many long marching events so i also learned to play matched grip in right hand and start left or start right. I also turned the sticks around (play with bud end in stead of play with tip) to get anthoter feel. Did that with 5A, 7A and with big marching sticks.
Thx for the perspective Rick. Your chops, attitude and approach earn all my respect, so I listen. Learned drums as an adult for worship, then rock, never saw the benefit of trad. I have viewed it as a holdover from the compromise of playing a tilted field snare, which it seems like there's some truth to. But I've never heard the benefits spelled out like this before. I will say that I learned to play brushes a while back, primary influences were Ed Soph and Peter Erskin. I decided trad was more conducive so that's what I do. And I have since then noticed that with sticks, even though I don't practice trad, there is a sensitivity and lightness that comes with it for lower volume, reboundywork. I can see that I would benefit from learning trad. This seems exacerbated by the fact that my left hand is literally not as steady as my right; when I try to do small, light, detailed motions it shakes and doesn't work right. Trad might deal better with that.
I use both grips, depending on the playing situation I’m in. If I need a lot of control I tend to use trad, for power I tend to use matched. I’m a big believer in using the right tool for the job, so limiting myself to one grip or another, doesn’t fit with my approach to playing. Thanks for the video and debate.
I adhere to what Chris Lamb said to me . Which was. "I don't care what grip you use, I don't care if you stand on your head and play upside down. All I care about is the expressiveness of your playing. Let's focus on that "
One thing I’ve noticed that you touched on was the wrist flexibility with traditional. Because of the left hand’s flexibility, you can get a higher angle of attack that’s harder to achieve with matched, creating a shorter and lighter sound. This can help with jazz, quieter genres, stick-on-sticks, and getting shorter and tighter buzzes. Also, specifically in DCI/WGI etc. it opens up more stick tricks (but that’s pretty cosmetic w/o too much benefit imo). I believe percussionists should mainly use matched, but I 100% agree that traditional should be taught and used for its practical benefits. Last thing, loved the video and your channel! Please keep posting, you are an amazing drummer and provide insanely important knowledge!
With traditional grip, some appear to use more of the thumb like Buddy Rich or Elvin Jones while another drummer, like Steve Smith (especially during the early 90's) close the hand more around the stick and use more of the first and second fingers to control the stick. This has confused me for a time as to which grip to use so I try to practice both variations. With matched grip, I just try to copy Simon Phillips as best I can as it seems to work perfectly for him.
I took a few lessons when I started out from a traditional jazz drummer. He said "You hold the sticks LIKE THIS" - adding that this was how Buddy Rich and Gene Krupa held them, so that was the end of that. Nearly 50 years later, I still play traditional. I've played for so many years this way that matched just doesn't feel right to me. I think in many ways it makes more sense, but I'm just conditioned now to play trad. Personally I think that the thousands of hours of practice at technique is what matters far more than the way you hold the sticks - I reckon putting your 10 000 hours in with one stick up your left nostril and one wedged in your nether regions and at the end of it you'd swear that was the ideal way to hold them! ;)
I started out traditional grip mainly because my drum teacher wanted me to but switched over to matched later because I was more into rock drumming. He was incredible though and mostly played traditional and had such power and speed, he was a huge influence on me at the time, he could sit down at a drum set and the room would just come alive with an incredible sound. He seemed to get more out of a drum set than just about anyone I've ever heard. I still play matched today and even though I learned traditional it seems very uncomfortable if I try to play that way, it seems like the ligaments and tendons have formed playing matched and I don't have the flexibility to play traditional and it feels very odd if I try and I feel very constrained. I mostly have a rock style and sound to my drumming but I do play a lot of double strokes on the kit and around the toms but they're more open so matched seems to work good for that. Todd Sucherman that plays with Styx comes to mind as a drummer that plays both grips and has a very awesome powerful rock sound, very versatile drummer that can play any style it seems. Thomas Lang is another.
I like to switch back and forth. I think i might take some time and study my own playing to see what makes me feel the need to switch in a particular circumstance.
Great video, Rick, thanks. I also think that the jazz drumming vocabulary, the phrases, were all created by traditional grip players. There is a certain way we “dance” on the instrument when playing traditional grip. Does it make sense to you?… 🤘🏼 best…
I’m a matched grip guy because I find it easier to get a good rebound and I feel I have better control over my left stick. I find that if I use traditional grip, I can’t get proper rebound, and I feel I can’t get a good rimshot on the snare drum.
I love how traditional grip feels but I have to agree with you, the rim shots are not always 100% because every once in awhile I'll miss and it frustrates me to no end, matched grip I'm 100% and I never miss the shot. When I play traditional grip I just play center dot. I love both grips for different reasons and it's a constant struggle.
Great explanation! I've noticed drummers like Thomas Lang, Jack Dejohnette, Vinnie Colaiuta, and Steve Gadd playing more matched grip (or completely switching all together). Are there any issues you've found in the longevity of playing traditional grip, especially in regards to more backbeat oriented music? Thanks!
I play all the very heavy stuff matched. The intricate softer things are played with traditional. I am in my 60's and my hands are in good shape. If you learn good technique with both grips, there is no reason you can't play well into your 80's.
It sounds like a huge advantage could be gained by playing traditional with BOTH hands. Adjust your drum set up if necessary. Any ideas why this isn’t done more?
You're mentioning there are certain things that you can do better with traditional grip. Does that mean that you do these things better with your left than your right then? I'm just curious, since I am trying to play more stuff with traditional grip.
Doesn’t matter to me what one chooses, but I do both and old enough that I started with traditional. Fast forward to today, nearly 60 years later, it just depends on mood and how the arthritis is doing in the hands.
Hello Rick, I play both matched and traditional grip but find that my left hand finger control is not as good using traditional grip. Can you point me to videos or other instructional materials that explain proper finger control technique using traditional grip, in a way that is easy to understand? Thanks. BTW, I love your channel!
Hi Nick Check out this playlist Rick Dior's Hand Technique Playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PL_c8RjVWL5e9WQBxx6mB8IamuLzy6frnQ.html There are many videos dealing with the topic you are asking about.
Thanks for the video Rick, great as always! Gives me some motivation to work on trad grip some more (though the pros and cons might be different for me, as I am a left handed drummer who plays right handed for convenience reasons). Since you're talking so much about grip, what's your thoughts on index vs middle finger as fulcrum? I saw a Dave Weckl video where he talks (ua-cam.com/video/vdeqV0hz05E/v-deo.html) about how he switch later in life to middle finger fulcrum.
Both great drummers, but the video is not about comparing players who play a certain grip. It's about the importance of learning both grips so you can play anything from rudimental drumming to orchestral drumming to jazz drumming. It's for teachers and students. Thanks
hi Rick. Do you have any views on the angle of the snare drum regarding the 2 different grips. I noticed Buddy Rich would have his snare drum slanted. Does the match grip lend itself better to having the snare drum perfectly level? any thoughts?
I have been playing mostly match grip for 40 years, but, every time I play jazz I automatically want to swap to traditional. It actually limits me playing traditional grip because I am not as technically profitiant as I am with match grip. Sometimes however, I find that I can sound better this way as I am less likely to throw in overly complicated fills or comping. I also find it easy to keep my comping volume level bubbling under the surface in a jazz context with traditional. It also helps separate the feel of my hands so I feel like I can zone in on my cymbal hand, and in general focus more on cymbal time. The thing I can not do with traditional grip is play rim shots or rim shot backbeats. I have tried to watch how Steve Jorden or Vinnie Colauita play traditional grip back beats, but for me it feels so un-natural to pull my upturned forearm, down into a position where I can get a consistent rim shot. It feels like I am going to damage my wrist and arm so I have never perceveired with it.
Nope, don't buy it. The claimed benefits of the traditional grip rely on the premise that with non-dominant hand it's awkward or challenging to do certain stuff. But anatomically both hands are (usually) the same and it's really about the time spent on practicing both hands equally. Not to say I would not like traditional grip. I just think it looks cool, and I believe some people learn it to be cool. But I would not say it has real benefits, it is actually a harder, more injury-prone technique. Still thanks to Rick for his opinion and sharing that!
Hi If you don't play traditional grip your comment is not based on actual experience with both grips. While both hands may be anatomically the same they are certainly not the same as far as strength and dexterity are concerned.
@ hi Rick, but strength and dexterity can be learned right? I don’t think these are a hard limit for which you would need to learn a different technique to compensate.
Once again, there are definitely advantages to playing some things with the traditional grip because of the use of the thumb as well as the first 2 fingers in the non dominant hand. Unless you have mastered the traditional grip, you will never realize this advantage. Something to always ask yourself is the question of " Can I play anything I want and is asked of me at any speed or dynamic with either grip?" That goes for all types of music at any speed and dynamic. Morello and I had this conversation many times since we both also played the matched grip and traditional grip. Many times, the traditional grip was the answer for speed, power, as well as finesse.
@@rickdior thanks, logically thinking that doesn’t make sense, but doesn’t mean I would be right either 😄 I am entertaining the idea that trad grip is best for the weaker hand, I have started learning the technique ”on the side” but can’t really use it yet. I’ll also have to ask around from pop/rock/metal drummers about this. But nice video detailing the technique. Appreciate it!
Whatever allows you to make the kind of music you want to make!
Doing both is a great thing, it’s all about options. By the way, Bill Stewart is a great Jazz player using matched grip.
Thank you, Rick. This video comes at an important time for me. I started down the drum path at age 13 in 1961. At the time, traditional grip was what we did because, well, it's what we did. I (and others) looked down on matched grip as amateurish b/c learning traditional grip was a Rite of Passage for serious drummers. That lasted 10 years until 1971 when I got drafted. Somehow, one thing led to another, and I never got back to my previous life. Fifty-plus years later I'm retired and decided to take up the drums again. I've learned that drums and drumming have changed appreciably in the intervening time. One of the challenges I set for myself was to learn matched grip. (Another is to explore heel-up bass drum technique, but that's another story.) I'm struggling to get my weak (left) hand strokes to sound like my strong hand, but think I can get it down by age 80. Wish me luck.
man props to you. old dogs CAN learn new tricks. wishing you best of luck on your journey with matched grip!!
So far I made two long-term switches: Self-studied, I played (mainly pop & rock) matched grip from about 1983 to 2002. When practicing during that time, I also tried out traditional grip now and then. Then one concert night, without thinking or making a conscious decision, I tilted my snare drum and applied traditional grip right from the sound check. I felt completely "at home" with it. The next 20 years I completely ignored matched grip. No dogma or specific reason other than just that it felt better. Until one day when I was practicing at the drum set and tried a few things with matched grip. It felt so ok that I immediately started applying matched grip and stayed with that since then. So I had 20 years matched, 20 years traditional, and now it is matched again. Perhaps I should mix them more. I laugh a lot when hearing/reading endless discussions. The advantages of matched grip have all been said (just not yet by everybody) but if I was asked what is good about traditional grip I would say: (a) An asymmetric use of hands can trigger creativity. (b) Trad. can also support ergonomics: For me it takes only a small rotating move with the left wrist to be on the high tom and the move to the floor tom feels lighter as well. (c) The most important is: No rational needed! If trad. grip feels good and inspiring for the drummer, then it is the right grip. People who have not mastered it should not argue against it. It is arts, not science. No need to proof why one of the two feels better.
Rick been watching you for a while now. I was. Taught traditional and really feel comfortable. However , I have really tried match with no comfort but been playing since early 60s . We have talked many times. I really feel you are a classic and professional drummer by every sense of the word.I still will play traditional but am working hard on both. Excellent video Rick and Thank you.
SO impressed with your brush playing, especially using the traditional grip. Excellent fantastic video.
Been playing for 51 years and have always used both. Played traditional in marching band and matched with my rock band. Playing jazz, I have the feeling that the drum kit is not a symmetrical instrument. Right does its thing, left does its very special thing… that’s how I look at.
I've been a traditional grip drummer for 68 years starting in 1956 being taught right out the J. Burns Moore book. I was never a professional drummer having only played set drumming a few time with a band. But my thought, and I believe other drummers I have known, considered the traditional left hand grip to be a disadvantage. The fact you state about have fewer fingers on the stick being an advantage was considered just the opposite by some on both sides of the discussion, Mitch Marcovitch (sp?) made that opposing argument. I'm not taking sides on this, except that an issue I have developed in my left hand control in my elder years is that when performing double stroke rolls, my left hand begins to buzz or multiple bounce instead of clean two beats. Then if I turn my hand around to a match grip, the rolls cleans up nicely. I still perform generally better traditional grip, but then I am not truly a match grip player (outside of practicing that way). Just a little anecdote. Thanks for this and all your great videos. I wish I had you available in my younger years!
I started playing traditional grip one year ago. I will never go back to matched… except of course timpani or mallets, but drums are traditional only!
Why?
Hi Rick, I'm a big fan of your channel and I think it's the best on UA-cam. I've been playing matched since I was a kid, then some years ago I spent a lot of time studying traditional. One thing that I immediately noticed is that playing traditional also improved my matched: my left hand has strengthened a lot since then. I still play 80% matched, because I feel more comfortable with it, but I totally agree that serious players should study both. Thanks for sharing your immense knowledge with the drum community. Greetings from Italy.
That is definitely true about the strength aspect. Using both grips with your left hand makes it much more dexterous and powerful. Thanks
Good words Rick. It took me 52 years to get comfortable with both grips. I too use trad for brushes, jazz & intricate playing, I love the subtleties trad can bring to the music. I can't say I have a definitive preference though unless I am playing (Thanks to my time w/Gary Chester from '83 - '86) left hand lead stuff on the left side of the kit, that necessitates matched. I just would add for the younger student to remember, drumming is a life-long endeavor. It's not like riding a bicycle that you can learn in a day. Drumming takes a lifetime, take your time and explore everything out there to elevate yourself. Ya know who fools alot of dudes with matched grip...Bill Stewart, he plays a light stick but more so he icuts the subtleties with his left hand matched. A great drummer for sure.
Great explanation mr. Dior!
I think the main diference in both grips is the position of the hand in relation to the stick. And that's a big diference because the stick rebounds lighter with traditional grip, so when you want emulate certain comp triplets ala Elvin or Philly and certain solo figures, it's a part of the language and phrasing to know. I think that a hard backbeat needs more weight and power and for that reason it's more confortable to play with matched grip. Of course, there are exceptions, but I think that the main reason to choose one grip or another is to express closer to the sound you've got in mind. And of course, there is a lineage that it has to be respected and studied.
That's what I think too
Perfectly timed content thanks Rick. I'm really enjoying the rudimental bit of my practice, playing Mr Rudiments comfortably now, looking for the next challenges. I was just starting to wonder if I should learn traditional grip as well and this is a clear yes. I'm really interested in brushes, that quiet sound is very nice for me, and I feel like when I'm playing a ride pattern with my right hand a trad grip for the snare might be easier or more intuitive. I know what we're doing next lesson.
I quite like those sticks too with the grain up one side.
I agree with Rick. If you are teaching a young or new student percussionist, you should give them the opportunity and guidance to learn both grips. If they are to continue their journey in percussion they will need both for the many percussion instruments they will encounter over their lifetime. If you want a deeper dive into the human anatomy, physics of movement, bone and muscle strength required to produce the movement necessary to approach all percussion instruments, ask your orthopedic physician about it. I broke both my wrists 20 yrs ago in an accident. Great information Rick, looking forward to more content!
Hi Rick!
I started playing traditional grip around 1997, when I was 21. By 2000 I was able to play traditional in the studio.
I started in 86, so I played matched for ten years.
I never recommended to my students to learn traditional, but I'd show them. I did however teach the ones going to high school for drum corps traditional.
I play in mostly heavy bands. The Regal Tip Groover or 5B W were my sticks of choice. I love the Vic Firth 5A and 5B Doubleglaze, though! The sound they get out of my drums and cymbals is just gorgeous. I'm very happy to be so pleased with such a pedestrian type of stick. I play heavy but I don't hit really hard.
Anyways, love the topic, and thank you for the clarification.
Thanks for your excellent videos! I started playing 59 yrs ago doing traditional grip with the Haskell Harr book. I picked up matched for timpani and mallets and then drumset playing in my first rock band in junior high. It just felt right for that style, but traditional has always felt best for jazz. Like you said, some things just work better for each grip. Of course, every jazz drummer switches to matched for Latin grooves. Both grips have a place in the tool box.
Great Video Rick...
I play traditional grip and have been for 25 years. However, before College I played matched exclusively. I love traditional grip. The feel is so different.
Love your content,Rick....You are a real guy.In 60+ years of drumming and teachingI studied with Jim Chapin and Ed Shaughnessy,and I play all grips and teach all grips.I play mostly traditional, but most students play matched.several play both.I also show French,all the Moeller,Gruber,Adler,Murray Sivack,just so they know what's out there...Keep on going...I love this stuff.Ay 73,I still teach and play.
Here’s something else you might not have heard (at least, not often). I come from decades of playing the guitar and bass professionally. When I started to learn drumming, the traditional grip came very naturally to me. In retrospect, I think that the upturned fretting hand position that made most sense to me: all I had to do was lower my hands, grab a pair of sticks, and I already had the basics of the traditional grip.
That said, I still struggle with the matched grip. I only use it occasionally, when I’m playing cross-stick and need to reach for the toms. This is probably where piano players will have the advantage. (Although, I learned to play the piano years before I learned to play the guitar.)
When I was younger I was bored one day while practicing and decided to try out traditional grip in my DOMINANT / LEADING hand for fun. I started practicing it regularly and eventually caught it up to my non-dominant hand. Pretty useless for drum set but it's fun to bust out every once in a while to boggle other drummers!
Thanks for continuing your great videos - learned early (70') traditional but now have some physical limitations that are resulting in trying matched gip- learning all over! thanks
Thanks for a great video focusing on the grips. I, though slightly older than you, grew up playing traditional for Drum Corp (matched for tenor drum), Jazz, and even rock-n-roll. However, back in the 70s, early 80s I did use matched when playing strong back-beat, with rim shot, for the reason you mentioned. In fact I usually turned the stick over and played matched with the butt end. These days I play almost exclusively traditional, of course with the exception of cross-stick to toms. Now when I play with younger musicians, regardless of the genre, and I use traditional, they say you must be a jazz drummer.😄
Good video.
I figured some more benefits of the trad grip i think are quite fundamental.
There are also other benefits of playing matched, when you have a huge setup playing a broadway show for example.
Btw if you play Burton grip on vibes, the inner mallets are practically played as a traditional grip, at least it’s the same movement, and for me the same feel
I remember articles in Modern Drummer magazine and elsewhere, (in the late 1970s/early 1980s) where some doctors, who also played drums, discussed the idea that matched grip uses about 7 major muscle groups, whereas traditional grip uses about 21 smaller muscle groups. Most agreed that a great player should be able to do both, because it gives you more freedom in creating sounds. (i.e., traditional grip "stick shots") Buddy Rich was notorious for saying something like "You can't play anything with matched grip", and then tearing into an mind-boggling solo section with crossovers, etc., using it. And... Buddy and the other greats you mentioned had no problem playing with great power, using traditional grip. So... As you said, there are valid reasons for using both methods. It's not a contest. :)
Great points. I learned matched for several years and switched to traditional when I got to college. Never looked back personally. It allows me just as much freedom now but a much easier time to get the sound in my head comping in jazz. I do find match grip easier for loud rim shots though
Also, traditional looks very cool.
Used Traditional grip from the late 60s to now. You are right, it works great with brushes. However, I’m trying insert more Match grip in my playing. I think it does improve skill.
That's very interesting Rick. I think that traditional grip helps those with a natural disparity in the hands to develop a good technique and sound with both hands. I'm not much of a traditional grip player - I'm a prominently left handed player who has played open handed (on a right handed kit setup) for many years. I learnt right handed initially and I'm pretty much ambidextrous so I don't find traditional grip that useful for me. I certainly see the benefit of learning it however and I've pursued it a little (right hand cross stick) cos I like it for playing jazz. Thanks again Rick and best wishes to all
I took lessons from 2 different teachers in jr and sr high school.
One was an orchestral percussionist. Drummers from all over the country would take lessons from him just to strengthen their left hand.
The other was a jazz drummer who played open concept, a technique by which either hand could play ride which completely opened up the flow.
The point is each technique had
its place. Match tends to work best for power. Traditional tends to work best for more intricate applications. However be practical, use what works the best for you.
Benefit of traditional I also feel in (advanced) funk. From a snare drum hit to a hi hat hit is just a short, fast and light move of fingers with traditional grip. With matched going from a snare hit to a hi hat hit is a big move with also wrist and underarm involved. In 16th disco however I often use matched grip. In marching band in a long march event we often play the same list of songs very often, so it becomes a routine, and ...without pause. There i learned to switch grips and switch leading hand to relax the muscles. So i can start right with matched grip, Start right with traditional grip, Startt left with matched and traditional grip. We had many long marching events so i also learned to play matched grip in right hand and start left or start right. I also turned the sticks around (play with bud end in stead of play with tip) to get anthoter feel. Did that with 5A, 7A and with big marching sticks.
Thx for the perspective Rick. Your chops, attitude and approach earn all my respect, so I listen.
Learned drums as an adult for worship, then rock, never saw the benefit of trad. I have viewed it as a holdover from the compromise of playing a tilted field snare, which it seems like there's some truth to. But I've never heard the benefits spelled out like this before.
I will say that I learned to play brushes a while back, primary influences were Ed Soph and Peter Erskin. I decided trad was more conducive so that's what I do. And I have since then noticed that with sticks, even though I don't practice trad, there is a sensitivity and lightness that comes with it for lower volume, reboundywork. I can see that I would benefit from learning trad. This seems exacerbated by the fact that my left hand is literally not as steady as my right; when I try to do small, light, detailed motions it shakes and doesn't work right. Trad might deal better with that.
I use both grips, depending on the playing situation I’m in. If I need a lot of control I tend to use trad, for power I tend to use matched. I’m a big believer in using the right tool for the job, so limiting myself to one grip or another, doesn’t fit with my approach to playing. Thanks for the video and debate.
I adhere to what Chris Lamb said to me . Which was. "I don't care what grip you use, I don't care if you stand on your head and play upside down. All I care about is the expressiveness of your playing. Let's focus on that "
One thing I’ve noticed that you touched on was the wrist flexibility with traditional. Because of the left hand’s flexibility, you can get a higher angle of attack that’s harder to achieve with matched, creating a shorter and lighter sound. This can help with jazz, quieter genres, stick-on-sticks, and getting shorter and tighter buzzes.
Also, specifically in DCI/WGI etc. it opens up more stick tricks (but that’s pretty cosmetic w/o too much benefit imo). I believe percussionists should mainly use matched, but I 100% agree that traditional should be taught and used for its practical benefits.
Last thing, loved the video and your channel! Please keep posting, you are an amazing drummer and provide insanely important knowledge!
Traditional grip is amazing
With traditional grip, some appear to use more of the thumb like Buddy Rich or Elvin Jones while another drummer, like Steve Smith (especially during the early 90's) close the hand more around the stick and use more of the first and second fingers to control the stick. This has confused me for a time as to which grip to use so I try to practice both variations. With matched grip, I just try to copy Simon Phillips as best I can as it seems to work perfectly for him.
While Buddy Rich and Mel Lewis publicly trashed matched grip in interviews, but both used it from time to time.
I also like to switch and use both.
98% ,trad ,2% match, was taught both,drummer since the mid 50’s.
I took a few lessons when I started out from a traditional jazz drummer. He said "You hold the sticks LIKE THIS" - adding that this was how Buddy Rich and Gene Krupa held them, so that was the end of that. Nearly 50 years later, I still play traditional. I've played for so many years this way that matched just doesn't feel right to me. I think in many ways it makes more sense, but I'm just conditioned now to play trad. Personally I think that the thousands of hours of practice at technique is what matters far more than the way you hold the sticks - I reckon putting your 10 000 hours in with one stick up your left nostril and one wedged in your nether regions and at the end of it you'd swear that was the ideal way to hold them! ;)
UK jazz drummers Ginger Baker, Phil Seaman and Ronnie Stevenson played matched.
I started out traditional grip mainly because my drum teacher wanted me to but switched over to matched later because I was more into rock drumming. He was incredible though and mostly played traditional and had such power and speed, he was a huge influence on me at the time, he could sit down at a drum set and the room would just come alive with an incredible sound. He seemed to get more out of a drum set than just about anyone I've ever heard. I still play matched today and even though I learned traditional it seems very uncomfortable if I try to play that way, it seems like the ligaments and tendons have formed playing matched and I don't have the flexibility to play traditional and it feels very odd if I try and I feel very constrained. I mostly have a rock style and sound to my drumming but I do play a lot of double strokes on the kit and around the toms but they're more open so matched seems to work good for that. Todd Sucherman that plays with Styx comes to mind as a drummer that plays both grips and has a very awesome powerful rock sound, very versatile drummer that can play any style it seems. Thomas Lang is another.
I like to switch back and forth. I think i might take some time and study my own playing to see what makes me feel the need to switch in a particular circumstance.
Great video - thank you !!
Great video, Rick, thanks. I also think that the jazz drumming vocabulary, the phrases, were all created by traditional grip players. There is a certain way we “dance” on the instrument when playing traditional grip. Does it make sense to you?… 🤘🏼 best…
More inspiration with traditionnal grip in jazz. Don't know why.
Different feel for sure
I’m a matched grip guy because I find it easier to get a good rebound and I feel I have better control over my left stick. I find that if I use traditional grip, I can’t get proper rebound, and I feel I can’t get a good rimshot on the snare drum.
I love how traditional grip feels but I have to agree with you, the rim shots are not always 100% because every once in awhile I'll miss and it frustrates me to no end, matched grip I'm 100% and I never miss the shot. When I play traditional grip I just play center dot. I love both grips for different reasons and it's a constant struggle.
Thx Rick
Great tutorial!!!
Great explanation! I've noticed drummers like Thomas Lang, Jack Dejohnette, Vinnie Colaiuta, and Steve Gadd playing more matched grip (or completely switching all together). Are there any issues you've found in the longevity of playing traditional grip, especially in regards to more backbeat oriented music? Thanks!
I play all the very heavy stuff matched.
The intricate softer things are played with traditional.
I am in my 60's and my hands are in good shape. If you learn good technique with both grips, there is no reason you can't play well into your 80's.
@@rickdior Makes sense! Thanks again for sharing!
It sounds like a huge advantage could be gained by playing traditional with BOTH hands. Adjust your drum set up if necessary.
Any ideas why this isn’t done more?
You're mentioning there are certain things that you can do better with traditional grip. Does that mean that you do these things better with your left than your right then?
I'm just curious, since I am trying to play more stuff with traditional grip.
Doesn’t matter to me what one chooses, but I do both and old enough that I started with traditional. Fast forward to today, nearly 60 years later, it just depends on mood and how the arthritis is doing in the hands.
Hello Rick, I play both matched and traditional grip but find that my left hand finger control is not as good using traditional grip. Can you point me to videos or other instructional materials that explain proper finger control technique using traditional grip, in a way that is easy to understand? Thanks. BTW, I love your channel!
Hi Nick
Check out this playlist Rick Dior's Hand Technique Playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PL_c8RjVWL5e9WQBxx6mB8IamuLzy6frnQ.html
There are many videos dealing with the topic you are asking about.
@@rickdior Thanks!
Great video!
Thanks for the video Rick, great as always! Gives me some motivation to work on trad grip some more (though the pros and cons might be different for me, as I am a left handed drummer who plays right handed for convenience reasons).
Since you're talking so much about grip, what's your thoughts on index vs middle finger as fulcrum? I saw a Dave Weckl video where he talks (ua-cam.com/video/vdeqV0hz05E/v-deo.html) about how he switch later in life to middle finger fulcrum.
Hi
I don't use that grip.
For all the different types of playing I do it does not work for me.
Thanks
If you drive a car, should you have pedals OR should you have a steering wheel?
Traditional grip, thank you kindly 🥁👌
Back in the Day if you used matched others assumed you couldn’t read music and if you used traditional you could. LOL
bill stewart, ari hoenig.
Both great drummers, but the video is not about comparing players who play a certain grip. It's about the importance of learning both grips so you can play anything from rudimental drumming to orchestral drumming to jazz drumming. It's for teachers and students.
Thanks
Bottom line you should be able to do both .
In other words
“It depends”
Check out "Traditional Grip - the movie" by Steve Holmes. Hilarious!
hi Rick. Do you have any views on the angle of the snare drum regarding the 2 different grips. I noticed Buddy Rich would have his snare drum slanted. Does the match grip lend itself better to having the snare drum perfectly level? any thoughts?
Hi
This should help.... an entire video on that topic.
ua-cam.com/video/CZ5mTR8F674/v-deo.html
Thanks!
I have been playing mostly match grip for 40 years, but, every time I play jazz I automatically want to swap to traditional.
It actually limits me playing traditional grip because I am not as technically profitiant as I am with match grip. Sometimes however, I find that I can sound better this way as I am less likely to throw in overly complicated fills or comping. I also find it easy to keep my comping volume level bubbling under the surface in a jazz context with traditional.
It also helps separate the feel of my hands so I feel like I can zone in on my cymbal hand, and in general focus more on cymbal time.
The thing I can not do with traditional grip is play rim shots or rim shot backbeats.
I have tried to watch how Steve Jorden or Vinnie Colauita play traditional grip back beats, but for me it feels so un-natural to pull my upturned forearm, down into a position where I can get a consistent rim shot. It feels like I am going to damage my wrist and arm so I have never perceveired with it.
UNPOPULAR TRUTH: regardless of which grip you use, you're probably still just an average player.
Nope, don't buy it. The claimed benefits of the traditional grip rely on the premise that with non-dominant hand it's awkward or challenging to do certain stuff. But anatomically both hands are (usually) the same and it's really about the time spent on practicing both hands equally.
Not to say I would not like traditional grip. I just think it looks cool, and I believe some people learn it to be cool.
But I would not say it has real benefits, it is actually a harder, more injury-prone technique.
Still thanks to Rick for his opinion and sharing that!
Hi
If you don't play traditional grip your comment is not based on actual experience with both grips.
While both hands may be anatomically the same they are certainly not the same as far as strength and dexterity are concerned.
@ hi Rick, but strength and dexterity can be learned right? I don’t think these are a hard limit for which you would need to learn a different technique to compensate.
Once again, there are definitely advantages to playing some things with the traditional grip because of the use of the thumb as well as the first 2 fingers in the non dominant hand. Unless you have mastered the traditional grip, you will never realize this advantage. Something to always ask yourself is the question of " Can I play anything I want and is asked of me at any speed or dynamic with either grip?" That goes for all types of music at any speed and dynamic. Morello and I had this conversation many times since we both also played the matched grip and traditional grip.
Many times, the traditional grip was the answer for speed, power, as well as finesse.
@@rickdior thanks, logically thinking that doesn’t make sense, but doesn’t mean I would be right either 😄 I am entertaining the idea that trad grip is best for the weaker hand, I have started learning the technique ”on the side” but can’t really use it yet. I’ll also have to ask around from pop/rock/metal drummers about this. But nice video detailing the technique. Appreciate it!
Excellent video. Rick, please check your email (spam folder?) re: ACDHP book!
Nothing in my email
Rickdior@gmail.com