JK-BMS go home! Here comes the new BMS King. Wait.... is this a JBD BMS??? 😱
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- Yes, it is true: this JBD BMS from Muller Energy is indeed a tick better than the good old JK-BMS. At least when we compare the 4s version because this JBD BMS is only available for 12V batteries. For now...
The Muller Energy JBD BMS is massive, has 250A continues current, a 5A active balancer, a displ... wait, did I say 5A active balancer?! Seriously?
Lets put this BMS to the test and see how good the balancer function works. It's hard to top the JK after all...
All info to the Muller Energy JBD BMS. Not an affiliate link, neither am I getting any incentives if you should consider buying this BMS (just to counter some of the comments...) 😏
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Great video, thanks very much Andy! 🐸🐸🐸🐸
It has taken a lot of effort to get the BMS to where it is, so I'm very happy that it was well received.
To be honest, it was actually developed for our next batch of batteries. But then we thought that there might be an interest by the DIY community, so we made it available to the public.
We needed a 250A (to be able to run a 3000VA inverter) Smart BMS and there aren't that many on the market and those out there didn't quite have the features that we were after which is why we created our own.
Some people have mentioned that it's not cheap and of course, I'm not going to argue with that, but I actually think it's quite reasonably priced when you compare it to the locally availble alternatives that are also priced in AUD and come with GST and an Australian warranty. Locally a 250A Daly BMS is around $300 and that's without a screen and only a ~40mA passive balancer.
Also Andy, yes, you're correct, it is a heating connector. Not something commonly used in Australia, but given the very small difference in cost, we chose to include it as it might appeal to some people in Australia and people that live in colder climates.
As for international shipping, we will offer it, but I'm just trying to work out the cheapest and quickest way to facilliate this, please give us a couple of days and we'll have it available (I'll also get back to those of you that enquired via email/message).
Finally, on the 16s version, it's definitely a posibility, I could even envisage a 8s-20s LiFePO4/NMC version. We'll give it a few days to gauge any potential interest in this and then decide whether it's financially viable. This version would obvioulsy also have a CAN BUS connector available.
Thanks for all the comments, even the slightly critical ones, it's always good to get feedback!
Fantastic product and development effort. Is there any thought to including a CAN BUS Sunny SMA output on the 4S so the unit can communicate with Victron and Wakespeed? The RS485 method would be too slow to permit shutdown of an alternator prior to the BMS shutting off charging and risking alternator damage. Thanks
I may be interested in 2 8s for my BYD 24v LFP batteries as they charge to about 3.38v 1-3 cells take a jump to anything from 3.55-3.91v, I’m going to have to limit the charge for the moment until I have a solution. They rest evenly around 3.3x, so odd, these batteries act like adolescent children above 3.38v! Edit, I’m in the USA.
Considering that is a kit and comes with your warranty, it is a fair price, even if it costs double as the Jbd sells.
Adding the heating port to be used in cold climates was also a smart ideea.
If you could ask Jbd to make one model of 300 Ah (or higher) for 8S and 16S, that would be amazing.
You would smash the diy electric boats market with that if you can mantain a decent price (under the Orion Jr 2).
I would buy both models, since I need the 8S for the camper box (8kw inverter on 8x304Ah Eve cells) and the 16S for my future electric boat with a 18kw motor.
Hope you will find a way to ship them internationally (I am from Romania, Eu). If not, I will still buy them trough my brother who lives in Melbourne.
For the heater terminal... Don't sell yourself short. Can you imagine Australian based companies who want to deploy lithium battery based storage in Sub-Zero conditions? Probably a bit of opportunity for Antarctic stations, ships, other sites which experience Sub-Zero weather with administration in Australia.
I have a 24v (in bus) & a 48v (home) system, a 250A version would be nice, but I can see a high want/need for 200A & 300A versions in the 24v & 48v systems too. I see a higher trend towards the 24v & 48v gear now with the DIY solar on/off grid and in the caravan & 4WD communities also. It was a good move to include provisions for heating as many caravaners are likely to encounter very cold climates at some time.
My BMS’s all have heating functionality (just in case) but I have not felt a need to hook this up as I am in a fairly tropic climate. Looks nice, definitely bring on the 24v & 48v gear.
I can see wifes all over the world excited to get a Muller BMS just as much as getting a toothbrush for christmas.
Well, if I now sell a BMS for each toothbrush that husband's would have given to their wife's for Christmas, I might sell an additional 2 or 3 units! 😁
Curling iron and blow dryer 👍
@@mullerenergy so, the big question..., when will the 16S be launched...?
Electric tooth brush with fibrator function??? 🤣😆😁😄😃😀
@@mullerenergy 16s version please :) whooo
I bought the Müller edition. Works great, but I don't seem to have the same XiaoXiang app on my iOS phone. I can't change any settings, and the display looks very different (white background and text in black and light blue. The app ikon is blue with a white elephant. Are there different versions of the app?
Andy, I really like you're unbiased video's and I'm always looking forward to the next. With this video I had a slightly different feeling especially the unbiased part of it. Whether or not one is better than the other I will leave out of the discussion here. To make a good comparison we would need a price comparison and that was lacking here for example. Also the 5% discount seems to suggest ... although I could be completely wrong. Keep up the good work just this one could have been a bit better.
Same feeling here.
Totally agree. I tend to filter out the evaluative comments and just focus on the facts/evidence. Then you can make your own determination of which is better.
But I guess some other people want/looking for a recommendation......
Saying the JK has a smaller radiator it’s irelevant as it has enough mosfets that they don’t produce enough heat, also JK can deliver the stated power, etc this literally was the first time where i feel like the comments are not based on actual facts. (The only downside on JK is that it only balances one cell at time).
@@laurentiu1689 when the effectiveness of a system is good enough it will produce less heat. That huge cooling sink needs cooling and thus more space. I find the overall size and extra's a bit overkill. What's next ? A bms that's larger than a 4s battery?
I have no financial gain if someone buys this BMS or not. I was asking them if they want to do a Christmas special with 5% off. I'm not getting any affiliate payment nor other perks, nothing. I've got no interest in supporting this company nor do I know them.
The price is what they charge, not me. I'm not recommending buying this BMS or any other. It's a technical review to show what can be done if working together with the Chinese manufacturer and adding additional function like we always wanted.
A 16s version would be fantastic. Andy, make it happen! You can do it!. lol.
Good afternoon! I am all the same a supporter of JK-BMS 4S-8S. After all, it is for 3 types of batteries, for all voltages up to 8s and a large balancing current. She does not need anything additional to hang for balancing. In this new BMS, it should be noted good threads for screws and a diameter of M8, as well as a beautiful radiator.
I think I would air condition the Off-Grid Garage with an energy efficient 12Kw Mini Split A/C... then I would leave the bay doors open to get rid of all yourextra power....since you have Too Much Power and I'm Canadian and don't like Too Much Heat!!!
A couple points.
1) When the BMS switch is turned on, is there any current limiter that reduces the surge current while the inverter capacitors charge up? If not, how hard is the surge on the internals of the BMS and the capacitors of the inverter? (Some folks claim the surge can damage the caps and the fets).
2) When building a battery, mounting and inclosing the BMS is a PITA. Having a dangling Bluetooth connector makes it worse..... adding an active balancer makes it even more of a pain.... and then there is all the extra wiring. This would be a much more attractive BMS for me if the BT and Active balancer were integrated.
Thanks for the questions.
1) No, there's no current limiting, once discharge is enabled. If this inrush current damages your inverter, it's the inverter that has a design flaw, in my opinion. But I have not heard of this happening at all, neither with a BMS (we sell BMS versions with this functionality) or with any of our batteriers.
As for the MOSFETs, I'm assuming you're talking about the ones on the BMS? The BMS is built to withstand a short circuit. If it can do that, it can handle the inrush current of an inverter as well.
2) I'll take this one onboard for future BMS developments, thanks! The advantage is that this solution is more modular, making it easier to change things in the future. Plus, some people like to extend the Bluetooth cabling and run it outside the battery box, if reception is an issue.
@@mullerenergy Agree 100% re the BT.
I would definitely extend it to have the BT module in a better position.
BT range is very limited when in a metal battery box such as in my caravan.
I can't see any advantage of this bms ...
- Passive balancing .... why ? To waste energy ?
- Having to plug an external active balancer .. why ?
- The size of this thing ... the big radiator ...... not an advantage.
JK BMS is more advanced to me, the construction is better on this JBD, i concede that .. but for everything else .. JK no problem.
And the price of this JBD .. how much ..? !
This is a sponsored video right ..?
These new BMS that you so mentioned are being shipped out defective by the manufacturer. I received two of mine man handled, finger printed, and those finger prints were itched into the copper. Then when I made sure that everything was correct. This alleged brand new bms, didn't detect the voltages of the cells. Since I am a skeptical person and I dont know this brand very well but since it came off this channel, I selected this Muller Energy BMS 250. Well it over charged my cells to 3.7+ swollen the hell out of the battery cells and damaged them in such a very short amount of time. Im scratching my head going how did this happen when the display is showing 13.68 on a 4s BMS. On this display it wasn't showing the input watts/amps coming in from the MPPT but the display showed "Charging". That is when I said I better run an independent cell voltage test. and thats when I screamed. I look down at the cells and two out of 4 were swollen. When I bought these BMS, several months back, as I was building myself a power house and received them in the mail very quickly. I sent out a email notifying them that the bms has dings in their copper, itched finger pints into the copper bus and they said thats the Quality Control nothing to worry. After finally building my power house and deployed that BMS, I was pissed. I now went back to victron. I can't trust any of these companies anymore. All they do is say, you pay for the shipping of the product back which was international for me and would had been costly if not being a wholesale drop shipper. Not economical for a consumer. So I invested that shipping costs and purchased a victron. Warning to anyone, if you need this to be a suitable and reliable system for your home or business do not use Muller Energy products or you will be left with your pants down without any remedy.
JBD looks like a beast. I love the build quality! 16s please!
We are the JBD manufactueres.
Andy, you're jumping the gun to say this JBD is the new king. It's more like a Prince at this time. They need to do a few this to become king. First, they need to make a unit that is 8s-16s capable. Second, their price rage needs to be in line with JK. Don't get me wrong. I'd be interested in an 8s unit myself. It is a well set up unit and the developer was definitely thinking things through. 🤔mind you the price would probably be around $300+ Canadian considering the JK 200amp unit is about $200 on aliexpress. Still a beefy unit though with properly done features. Good on them for doing so!👍👏
Hence i have this little * in the thumbnail, saying it's for the 4s version only 😉
It's a good start, so hopefully we will see more of such developments from JBD and others in the future.
Just downloaded the xiaoxiang BMS App, with the small elephant symbol, under the download name lghyes as per Muller Energy instructions on my Android.
I have no access to the Parameters.
How do we gain access?
The link to Muller Energy no longer present on the Off-Grid website. The new BMS King no longer King? Is the problem with the temperature connect function the reason? Please Andy give us some explanation.
I still like the jkbms. If we have properly done the top balance initially,then no need of balancing of more than one cell at a time and also more balancing current is not needed.
This has been my experience with my small system as well. My cells appear a bit out of balance but after about an hour after charging everything settles down and they are usually less than 10 mA difference. System only a year old at this point.
@@jws3925 10ma?
@@netrocker9990I would guess he meant 10 mv
@@evil17 yup
That is correct, the JK with its 2A balancer is still sufficient as I can see it doing a great job every single day in my battery shelf.
This video is more to show what can be done in terms of external balancer and how to control them.
I can't see this functionality being useful.... 0 advantage of having an external balancing board. The internal of jkbms do the job perfectly. If you want a more modulable solutions, there are other serialisable single cell bms that exist.
This video is sponsored, this is not turning well.....
JBD BMS from Muller Energy $349 before 5% discount.
JK BMS....Alibaba $90.
Worth the feature differences?
The $90 JK is only a 60A BMS.
which store??
It's AUD
This looks really cool. I'd like to see them offer a 14s version (for lithium ion, etc).
Now it would be fun to buy a Bitcoin miner and USE ALL the surplus Energy ❤ greets from NL
There is quite big price difference... $120 for 4S JK BMS, $350 for JBD, that's a lot
You know tha the Muller Jbd is in Aud, right? 😄
@@silviuflorescu6838 oh, forgot about that, thanks for pointing it out. So, it's only ~ 235 USD, that's better. Anyway, I'm curious about price of 16S version, that does not exist yet :)
@@MiH1IT , considering that a 6-22S of 250A is about usd $ 110 in the Jbd store , the final Muller version should be almost the same price as their 4S Au version.
Hi Andy, great review, can't wait for the 16s varient.
One of my packs has a total cell capacity variation of 8ah ( 105 ah average) I've soldered 2 of the heltect active balancers together (to avoid a messy cabling situation)
I'd recommend stacking the active balancers together on this 4s system for fast effective results.
I've got 2x 4s running with JK 2A balancing bms. It has work the first time the batterys top off. After that it doesn't need a lot of balancing the next top off if any. So 2x a balancer is a bit overkill and waist of resources for me.
@@ToThePointGarfield yes. Correct
The 2A balancer is great so you can reduce the absorption time and get the battery to a lower voltage quickly. The JK also comes with 1A active balancer for whatever reason...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Hello,sir, happy Easter festival. I have JK bms and price is unbeatable. I send from China and u can receive in one week.
Just successfully tested all this running at the same time off my 626Ah 2P4S battery and had 255 Amps running through the BMS. Only for a few minutes as I didn't want to push it so early on:
110 litre compressor fridge (about 5 Amps)
water pump (a few Amps?)
1550 watt air fryer (actually used more like 1700 watts)
750 watt microwave (uses 1200 watts)
Both those through Fchao 3000W inverter.
JkBMS, less cabling less space less fuzz, still the best to me 😊
It absolutely is, the JBD is just another option hew have now...
and third price..
As your comment seems a bit single-sided to me:
Yes I may have also gone for a JK BMS. But I need it for a 12V (4S LiFePO4) system with a 2300W inverter (efficiency ~90%).
Now do the calculation. Only the inverter can now draw up to 213A from the battery and I have even more consumers.
(it is for a caravan).
For sure: 24V is the better choice for large inverters but in my case that would have meant to double the battery cells (8S), double the weight, double the mounting space and including a 24V/12V DC-DC converter or alternatively changing all existing 12V devices (some you might even not get here with 12V - like the tiny water pumps).
So it is not „this BMS is better than that“. It simply depends on your application
And for 4S at hight currents I haven‘t seen any better so far.
(This could also be understood as a challenge for JK to develop a 4S 300A BMS 😁)
For DIY gear, it would be nice to see some more output control interfaces on BMS’s & controllers so you could have maybe 4-6 relay activating/switching outputs for various loads such as generator startup, battery heating, external active balancer, hot water switching at 95%+ SOC, pool pump, aircon, etc, that can all be set within an app to activate when parameters are reached to switch more solar dumping type loads in succession as batteries are near full & take full advantage of any potential excesses of energy you may be able to on a good day.
Yes, that would be great. It could be just a relay module connect to the RS485 port for example and a few additional options in the software to program them.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia 112522/1853 PST 🇺🇸 The same functions are inbuilt in Victron CERBO-GX system. All the above is possible to embed in JBD Müller also (and more) but the question is why not try Victron CERBO-GX,
when every thing one desires is already at your service?
Cost= convenience, viewing PV systems universally.
Congratulations to Müller Australia 🇦🇺 for incorporating AB and Touch Screen to JBD Müller. Danke Scheon, Andy and Müller 🇦🇺. 73s...
tons of old laptops out there
i have 50 to 100 i5 4 and 8 gig ram ones just setting getting dusty
I have used a JBD Bms (with a contactor version) and faced problems. When any of the cells exceed the preset voltage level, the BMS would disconnect permanently. I had to disconnect the balance wires and reconnect them to have it work again.
I had similar issues with the QUCC BMS and contactor. I think they are the same BMS actually. Not a big fan of these relay BMSes to be honest. It was always a bit hit and mis if it turned off the battery and on again.
Andy, great video.
A couple of comments:
First, I found if you lower the charge voltage to 13.8V or so, you will decrease the number of HV disconnects required to achieve balance - it will achieve balance with a slightly lower average peak voltage on the over voltage cell. I know that you like to use that per cell voltage level on you main banks anyhow.
Second, I have been looking now for a while for a balancer like that HELTEC (or whatever the brand your's is) that simply turns on when the **first** cell hits 3.45V or so (automatically, low cost, simple). No go. I was sure I could find one. I modified one of my heltecs to a 3.4V threshold (from the 2.7V threshold) by changing out the voltage detector to see if I could create one. Now it turns on when all cells are above 3.4V - which does not work properly since a low cell will prevent activation. It needs slightly more than a simple parts change.
It requires a circuit re-design so it turns on when the fist cell crosses the threshold. Not difficult, just needs a re-design. Maybe you can convince Muller to produce such a modified device - it looks like they managed to add a connector? That way all you would need to do is connect the new balancers to your other banks instead of replacing the whole BMS.
I think the problem is that almost all lower cost balancers available are re-tasked from other chemistries - without re-design. A simple circuit change on Heltec would provide a universal LIFEPO4 balancer that would allow everyone with a weak balancer (like the Daly's you demoed) to solve the LIFEPO4 balance problem once and for all without throwing out the BMS with the weak balancer.
yea that would be neat. Also the connector is literally soldered and glued onto the original unmodified PCB from Heltec. You could do the same thing to any existing balancers with a run switch.
I have actually such a balancer incoming which you mentioned in your second paragraph. We will test it soon on the channel.
I'm sure Heltec would be able to change these circuits accordingly to make the perfect balancer for us. But just for us... there might be other cases where this is not desired, and the balancer should just work as it is right now (using Li-ion cells for example).
I'm sure the one I will receive soon will just work even all the cells need to be over 3.4V to start it. It just requires one first top balance of the cells to get started.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia That would be useful, one set that starts when *one* cell gets to 3.4v and a different type that starts when one cell gets to 3.8v for Li-ion.
Andy, We have sold over 1100 of the little 4s balancers, no returns over 1 year (except in situations where they were wired incorrectly). In regards to your concern about them always balance, the balancers stop working after 2.9v there is no more balancing function. On grade A/EV grade cells this is a non issue, as the balancer never even turn on because the voltage delta in these devices is 0.1v before they are triggered on. We use them to assist in top balancing the pack when it is being fully charged.
Muller has created a beast BMS, we will need to contact them and see about making a plate that can fit our v4 Kit!
Thanks, the balancer cause imbalance when going into the flat area of the curve with LiFePO4 cells. I have a few videos here on the channel showing that. It should not be turn on below 3.4V therefor.
2.9V is certainly far too low and only the low voltage disconnect for the balancer but the 'damage' is then already done.
Yeah, you will need a new plate for your batteries for that BMS. It's huge but 250A💪
A 16-22S version with CAN would be a win I think. Why 22S ? - LTO if one wants a 48vnom LTO bank. 17S for LiFePo4 would be nice as well - as one commenter here stated - most inverters can accept the higher battery voltage of the extra cell (ie, 17S instead of 16S) and this allows a little more stored energy in the system and gives an extra cell that could be used to make a 16S system if one cell goes bad and needs to be removed from a 17S system - before you poo-poo this idea think about it - to have 17 cells in series to make a 48vnom battery means ALL cells are the same age and have the same (more or less) wear - if you have a 16S system and need to replace one cell, a replacement cell introduced to the battery will have very different characteristics to the other 15 cells in that 16S battery. It would be nice to have one spare cell in the system (ie, a17S battery) that is actually being used at the same time as the other 16 cells......so when you have to remove one faulty cell the other cells are all the same age etc in the now 16S battery. Makes sense if you think about it - I wonder why this is not more prevalent in DIY Solar ?
Not a happy camper Andy, not a happy camper. I have 16 batteries 304 amp hour. You told me JK was the way to go. Now you're telling me something else? What's really going on dude.
Oh heck, technology continues to progress. Not your fault dude!
Keep the JK, definitely! The JBD is just an alternative and only for 12V batteries so far...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia 👍
I want a 16s version
For my electrical vehicle with heating pads.
Its freezing here
With can function of possible?!
56 volts
Hi. You can add active balancers (1 or more) to all brands of BMS s. I stick to JK 👍
Not like this. We have seen what happens when you leave them connected...
Finally the option is available! To bad not a 16s...... yet!!
Yea, working on it. A 16S version would be great. Lots of interest here...
This Müller BMS looks 'OK' to me. Look at its size! And look at the length of the wiring loom. Who uses a 4S battery for an home setup? 4S is mostly used for trolling motors, campers, caravans (ok, the long cable might come in use there.) On the other hand.... they rather use 24 volts, right? This BMS is *HUGE*
That's why I said, the BMS is made for THEIR 12V batteries used in RVs, boats and cabins.
great video! can you recommend a BMS that can communicate with voltronic inverters? (eg easun SV4 / infinisolar s4). They seem to communicate fine with Ampleness batteries - but i dont know what kind of BMS is inside of them.
The Seplos BMS can definitely communicate with Voltronic Inverters. It's on their list of supported inverters. off-grid-garage.com/battery-management-systems-bms/
waiting now for the 16s model with CAN and then an all in one unit with everything on board
JBD already launched models with at least bluetooth onboard... ...works fine ;-)
Cool indeed! A very cool mod to that BMS. Wait, are those harddrive servo magnets screwed to the work bench?
Yes, the magnets are holding my tools.
If a good night I would like you to do video on how to connect a 12 volt dally BMS step by step I am a new person willing to try to do it myself thank you in advance
Welcome to the channel. I think I have shown this many times in my videos.
Here is the one with the Daly: ua-cam.com/video/02qFIjCI820/v-deo.html
And the step-by-step video with all the details. You should be able to follow that and connect your Daly BMS to a 12V battery: ua-cam.com/video/R71ct2bY-aA/v-deo.html
Andy, any update on the 16S upgrade?
The king is dead, long live the king! I use the active balancer since more than a year in a similar way together wit a JK BMS: my CerboGX switches the relay once the SOC is 99% and this connects the un-soldered on pads on the active balancer. So every time my battery hits the fully charging it is perfectly balanced! Of course, the copper bars etc are impressive, but throwing away what works is not affordable for everybody! But as usual, great video, great presentation of details, go on with your excellent channel!
Yep, the GX devices and also larger MPPTs from Victron have a relay which can be used for that purpose. That is a great solution.
There is no need for upgrading any BMS with the JBD. I was just showing what they have developed.
I'd be intereste in a 16s version. Good video Andy
Sadly 12v pretty much useless for anything other than Vanlife. A 48V version will be nice though!
That's effectively what it was designed for as it will be going into our own batteries and we specialise in 12V batteries for caravans, camper vans and 4WDs.
But it's great to see the interest in a 48V!
Andy Put me down for 2 of the 16S units if you can make it happen. like you i have a mixture of BMSes.
Yeah, we have to see how many we can get together...
I'll probably talk to JBD as well at some stage and see if they can modify all their BMS with this extra balancer switch. Would make sense for them either.
Thanks Andy for this review. Really great BMS. What I would consider great bms is with heating option and actual heating pads. So far we have JK and Daly that officialy offer heating function, buy without heating element itself. So customer needs to buy something and solder heating element elswhere.
I know that heating option is not needed for you, but wher I live we have already -10 celsius and winter has not even started.
So I would be really glad if you would test heating for this JBD when it will have 250A 16s with heater. Till then I will try to add heating element to JK and Daly. This is a must have feature for lot of people all arround the world I think.
Thanks Andy.
Have a goof day.
Thank you, I'll see what I can dig out and get done in this perspective. I have the SunFunKits case with heating pads but only tried it once to heat the cells for testing.
😮 Oh Nooooooooo. You’ve just ruined my day Andy, and possibly cost me even more money. 😢
Now I have to decide if I need one of these for my caravan, or just “make do” with the JK.
(To be totally honest I think I’ll stick with the JK, does the job admirably, and 200A is enough, … though admittedly not by a huge margin. I’m also tight for space in the battery compartment.)
Anyway, as always, thanks, great stuff. 👍
Yeah, stick with the JK. It still a great BMS and works well. Just for your next upgrade... maybe go with the JBD.
Tu es un super testeur. Merci beaucoup, j'attends le même model en 8S avec prise RJ pour interconnecter plusieurs BMS et une prise CAN pour utiliser sur Victron GX !!! Let's go Muller energy, vos prix sont en plus bien positionnés !!!
I only need 16s to be happy 🙂 and communicate with the victron Cerbo GX
But what if you have more than one battery? How would coms work then?
Andy, cool video.
Looks like we are almost there.
This balancer is similar to what I tried. The problem is, as you point out, that it only turns on when all cells are high.
I am looking for a balancer that works for a reasonably worst case. i.e. if you have a system where one or more of your cells is consistently low.
For a test I top balance the battery, then remove 2AH off one cell and see if the balancer can fix the problem....
And, unfortunately, the low cell will prevent the balancer from turning on. So not quite yet.
Note 1: A normal Heltec can easily fix that that imbalance (couple of hours @ 13.8V, but always on, so no go for me).
Note 2: I actually found a balancer, that could do the trick, but it is passive and bit tricky to use and generates heat so people hate it and it makes it not useable for my application.
And, apparently no one wants to sell it - difficult to search for (spec below). Good luck. You will find everything except that balancer.
To use: attach balancer to battery (in addition to BMS) and apply 3.45V*4 = 13.8V charger (
Nice one Andy. As you said too bad they have it only for 4S config. But i'm a bit sceptical for 16S version.. if costs is too much it is no sense version. For that we have to wait and compare both BMS. So far it looks ok for both.
The JBD seems a lot beefier then the JK, so I would actually prefer the JBD in this case. I don't trust the JK to come close to 200A.
Andy. Love your channel/reviews. With all the added functions to the BMSs (JK, Muller, Dally) like active balancing, bluetooth, and other functions, why do you think they have not added features like wifi and a shunt? It would be great to see an all in one unit for battery management to enhance the all in one inverters. I recently purchased a sun gold all in one inverter which only track battery usage in my remote cabin through wifi on the load side and does not track ideal usage, and my JK BMS is wifi only capable which does not have the accuracy of a shunt or wifi capability. This leaves me and a lot of other DIy’rs to only see half our system or we have to purchase a Victron GX system or something similar.
:-). We are pioneers, that's why 😂
The batteries didn't have laser welded studs, now they do. Bms where dumb, now smart(er) and start communicating.. strangely most Chinese think we(rest of the world) doesn't like wifi.
As soon as anyone invent BT to wifi (with the software that makes your BT app think it does connect to the BT device)...
They will include this!
Just wait an other year and you are able to buy at our beloved china tech prices.
Or don't wait and buy $$$ victron..
A BMS for my girlfriend for Christmas?? Not a bad suggestion Andy. Not bad at all...
-Except I already got her a nice Hydraulic Crimper! -She will be so thrilled, I can't wait to see her face when so opens up such wonderful present.
Hahaha, she will love the crimper. Makes such a great present 😄
@@OffGridGarageAustralia I especially got it in yellow - such a wonderful contrast to the red bow around... NOW she will know how much I love her. I'm sure my mother in-law gets excited too! -Thanks Andy for guiding me to better my relationships. This Channel just doesn't stop giving! 😁
A 8s-16s version would be very nice.
Saying the JK has a smaller radiator it’s irelevant as it has enough mosfets that they don’t produce enough heat, also JK can deliver the stated power, etc this literally was the first time where i feel like the comments are not based on actual facts. (The only downside on JK is that it only balances one cell at time).
The JK gets hot when going over 150A. We have tested that her eon the channel. So I would not trust this with actual 200A but 150A should be OK. The JBD looks far better from that perspective.
My experience has also clearly verified that simply connecting an active balancer, and leaving it constantly "on", only makes the cell imbalance worse when you are working with other than brand new, A grade cells. It becomes glaringly apparent as the cells approach the top of the charge curve. The Heltec active balancers are very good at what they do, but they must be manually switched on to be most effective, and only near the top of the charge curve. Then they must be manually turned off. The Muller energy BMS auto on/off parameter for the active balancer is a big improvement and a welcome function for DIY battery management.
My jkbms balancer is always on (well... At 3.25V) and my cells are perfectly balanced... And.. I've never top balanced this pack.
Good to see you back with the better BMS Andy. I use the JBD in my professional installations. Despite the new addition of an active balancer, I will not be using this model as top balancing is not necessary after it has been done the first time a battery pack is created(with quality cells). I have yet to see in any of my installations a passive balancer that didn't keep the cells perfectly balanced between 1 to 2 millivolts even though I set the balance threshold to 10 millivolts. It's not worth spending the extra money for my business, but I can see the appeal for the DIY crowd who might not have the same quality of cells.
Curious what size cells you are using ? 300 ah cells need more balancing power than 100 ah of course .
@@onthelake9554 a very good question. The majority of my installations are with 300AH+ cells for the ship's house system. I only use 100AH on ships 30 to 80 feet long, that I have designed a separate marine electronics(radios, gps, ais, radar, sounder) battery system for. In larger ships, I use 300AH for the separate electronics system too. Active balancing is only needed when a battery pack is first made for 300AH+(quality cells).
Yes, if you use high quality cells, the balancing argument goes away quickly. Most people in the DIY scene don't use these cells but 'A-Grade' cells as we know them. They need a bit of balancing here and there...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Lots of quality cells out there that aren't "automotive grade". Those are for making high voltage battery banks, 400 to 800 VDC. My comments are about low voltage storage grade batteries. I realize that unfortunately many of the people that are not professionals, end up getting stuck with not-so-great-cells because a distributer is going to keep their long term business partners happy and send a 1 time buyer any lesser cells that they have. This looks like a great BMS for dealing with those lesser quality cells that don't like to stay balanced.
@@boatelectricaldiy Good comments, so generally what BMS do you use on A grade cells?
to many parts for one functional 4s BMS. If they build one with all functions inside one unit, they win. But for me, they loose for now. I stick with my beautiful perfect awesome JK BMS. ☺
No need to upgrade if you have a working BMS already. The JK is certainly great for what it is.
Nice review. Are you sure you just don't like the name better, heir Muller? LOL Thanks for sharing
That’s real step forward as far as balancing goes - plus anything that stops huge sparks is brilliant. But that’s a whole lotta hardware for someone who lives on a boat where nothing like 250A is going to be used. Will this new stuff me available in a physically smaller version for maybe 120A peak? Not an issue for house installations with panels everywhere, but the new functionality has wider applications than this for better looking after batteries
This BMS is the first of its kind, so I'm sure there will be different versions in the future. It was specifically made for Muller to suit their 12V batteries, hence the 250A version.
You say to turn off charge balancing, but what if your battery is always in use? the JBD BMS will only balance when charging or in standby. That's my dilemma.
Yeah, that is a problem. In this case leave it on. I doubt the balance will have much effect anyway you you use the battery constantly.
You could also plan in some maintenance time twice a year or so when you let the balancer work without the battery being in use, if this is an option.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia That's a good idea, just set up a set schedule to make sure its all good.
NOMAL
Andy, add me to your list - 16S
Hmm nice! But I still think I prefer the JK BMS, it is maller, has built in 2A active balancing AND it´s cost is only 25% of the price of the Müller JBD BMS... So I can get 4 JK BMS for 1 Müller JBD BMS.
Hi Andy. Sorry if this was already asked in one of the previous feeds. If a person wasn’t going to go with this new Muller JBD BMS what would be the next best choice for a 280ah 4S build? And do you have any recommendations for where to purchase the JK BMS?
Hi Mike, I would definitely recommend the JK-BMS. I've got some links where to buy on my website: off-grid-garage.com/battery-management-systems-bms/
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Hi Andy. I ended up purchasing the JK-BMS and so far so good compared to my previous build using the Overkill 4S (JBD). I am a little concerned as I just set up the BMS on my new 4S system using the EVE 304ah cells and I have one cell that is not balancing. I set up the balancer to start balancing at 3.45 V (13.8V) and set my charger to 14.2 Volts and when I came home from work noticed 3 cells are balanced at 3.618V, 3.620V 3.621V and and one cell was at 3.389V. I disconnected the small 10A bench charger and the 3 higher cells started to discharge attempting to balance with the lower cell. I know you take your chances when buying these cells from Ali, but just wanted your opinion on if you feel this one cell will be a write-off or if there is a strategy I should be using. I would imagine the internal resistance is different on this once cell compared to the other 3 cells which seem to take the charge consistently.
@@mikechristian77 Thanks Mike. Set your power supply to 13.8V and let is sit there for a while with 3.45V as your balance start voltage. I think 4.2V is a bit too high and will cause single cells to go over 3.65V and he BMS will shut down. Start with a more moderate voltage first and then slowly increase once they are balanced to 14V and 14.2V
With these 300Ah cells, even the JK is struggling and need some time. I don't think you have a bad cell here. Just take it slowly and wait for them to balance before increasing the voltage.
What you did will work with the capacitive balancers as they can shuffle up to 5A with multiple cells at the same time. The JK does only one cell at a time so needs a lot longer with these high capacity cells.
Thank you so much Andy. I did that exact approach before I left for work this morning so hopefully things look better when I get home. I really appreciate you taking the time to provide the feedback as I was stewing about the anguish with having to get another cell….feeling more optimistic now!! Please let me know where I can donate to the work you do as I have learned so much from your videos. Thanks again.
@@mikechristian77 That's all good Mike. Thanks for your kind words. I hope it all goes well once your pack has top balanced.
There is a link under all of my videos if you want to donate. But you don't need to... I'm happy to help!
Great show Andy🙂 @Muller Energy 8-16s Version would be nice and I‘ll would by. 👍🏻
@off-grid garage,
The link for this product is now dead. I have looked all over for this device.
Can this replace the bms in the licitti 2nd generation 2000w battery box? The box has a 4s 200a bms inside now.
I wanted the convenience of the extra applied accessories that come with this package you show at the end of the video.
But do they have 24s?
And I can't find any that support LTO chemistry.
I can't see any advantages over JKBMS.
Hello dear sir, I have purchased a JK BMS model JK B2A24S15P. I am facing some problems like CAN Communication protocell to read the BMS Data. So kindly help me Pls.
New to DIY LiFePO4. Setting this up with 8 x 304Ah cells in a 2P4S configuration (which I hope is OK) and I'll have a Fchao 3000W inverter to (possibly) run up to 2400 watts of stuff (240 volt).
One thing I don't like are the small mounting holes right on the corner of the PCB.Something a little more robust like on the JK would be nice.
Always great videos, a curiosity !! With the solar system running, could your system work without a battery? what would be the minimum battery for solar operation in production? Greetings from your Italian fan
Thank you. This is an off-grid system, so depends on the battery. Of course, you could go with a very small battery but it would shut down quickly after the sun has set.
Very interesting video and interesting BMS. The downside is, that it's limited to 4S and the main downside is, that it's only a local modification of BMS. If it would grow to 8S and 16S capabilities and be globally available = then it would be an awesome BMS and other BMS manufacturers would hopefully also respond in the market with similar improved BMSs.
But similar functionality could be achieved with any BMS with passive balancing together with a Neey 4th generation active balancer, or am I wrong?
They send worldwide either from AU or China directly.
It's especially made for their batteries but I found the function great and wanted to share this.
Yes, the NEEY would achieve the same but you would need to program tow device individually.
Andy, I've got a 2P4S (ETC-LFP240AH) setup on my sailing yacht, and I've installed the Daly Smart Balancer with a connection to my Victron system. However, I've been experiencing occasional connection issues with Victron. Do you think it might be worth considering replacing it with this BMS instead?
Looks very good, but still no cover to protect at least the hot side of the device! how hard is it to make a plastic cover to protect the terminals!!
Thanks very much for the suggestion, I'll include it on the "ideas list" for version 2.0!
Yes, I agree, regardless of price it could look a lot more professional, clean, safe and finished with a nice plastic cover of sorts.
Im definitely interested in a 16S version
Ummmmm, the prices I'm seeing are 3.5x the JKBMS and consider the JK is 200 Amp but up to 8S, which means with a 24V battery, can handle a lot more POWER when voltage is considered. I could use a 250A BMS though... but there's entire 12V LFP batteries with BMS inside for what this costs.
To be fair this is manipulated a little. I was a big fan of JBD till I had to borrow JK bms from my friend. I have used 4S only 8S only and 16S from 20S and 8S from 20S JBD, it is working fine if you have brand new and all same batteries. But 8S half good and half bad batteries JBD is not working well at all, even with active balancer. But JK is still well balancing same 8S from 20S JK w/o active balancer. Only good point JBD has very long range Bluetooth capabilities, but paid app, and no internal resistance of batteries on JBd yet, just fancy looking JBD. Here after JK is king for me, period.
As a matter of fact JK have BMSes with up to 10A balancing and 1000A charge/discharge current. However the 10A equalizer is just that, I think there is no charge protection. The 1k charge/discharge unit can balance with just 2A, the 5A balancer can handle 500A current.
Yes, but those type are working with relays wich consumes a lot of power.
I used to use the QUCC BMS with relay, The power consumption for that was very low, minimal I would say. The relay uses a bit more power when switching on but after that they use a so called economiser which reduces the current to a minimum to still hold the relay in the on position safely but with far less power.
@Off-Grid Garage , Andy, so would you recommend also the Jk bms 500A or 1000A ? Both use relays..
I would need one for a 18kw motor on my electric boat with 16S Eve 304, but I was scared about the relay's consumption.
Could be the type/brand of relay a factor for lower consumptions or are all those the same?
@@silviuflorescu6838 In this high amp class, yes, I would use a BMS with Relay instead of MOSFETs. That's exactly what these BMSes are designed for.
The relay consumption is very very low if they use the economiser. Even without, you have such a large battery, it would nto matter.
Excellent review I thank you. Great BMS too. But, it costs more than 100AH battery itself in my case. It better last.
Hello! You don't know how to connect 32 LiFePo4 cells to create a 48V power bank to work with a 5.5kW inverter? Would this be a 16S2P setup and do you need two BMSs for that? Thanks!
Davis Brenda Clark Robert Moore Charles
Great! is the BMS meanwhile available for 16S ?
Hello from France Andy, have you seen that HELTEC markets a BMS similar to the JK B2A8S20P? Any opinion on this one?
E started following your channel. A word of warning to others. I have used the active capacitor balancers for several years now and have had capacitor failures. I had 10A rated unit.
I have ran x2 jbd bms (video on my profile) for 2 years on a 12 volt system!!!! On my whole house ac squirrel cage daily for heating and cooling . 2200 square foot home. NM
If they do not make a JDB 14S similar to the Muller 12V 250A BMS do you recommend the JK for lion 14S?
Hi Andy, big fan of your channel from the Philippines, can you sell me your used JK BMS? Im starting a little DIY offgrid setup and you are my inspiration, you are fun to watch, educational and I can easily relate to your video. you always makes my day.
Rodriguez Kimberly Jones Sandra Lopez Melissa
Recently purchased but cant find the app for android that allows me to adjust the parameters :(
That balancer is a failed product, imho.
Active balancer should draw the current from the charge source, instead of the cell, if the charger is active (please, correct me if I didn't see it quite right), it is a HUGE mistake in design for "elite" product.
Another point is: what is the actual price per components + software design ?
Hall Elizabeth Brown Paul Thompson George
I see no JBD/Muller BMS in your description or on your web page. Have your views changed?
09:30 I'm very sad to see they didn't fix the "NOMAL" spelling mistake. Such a stupid mistake, makes the product look stupid.
Hi Andy, The middle contact of the BMS busbar is shorter than 2 others, that means less resistance and higher current flows there. Why it's not important in this case?
Because the three terminals of the BMS are connected on the PCB again. So, these copper busbars are really only a sturdy mount for your cables and proved the best connection to the BMS. These short runs won't make any difference.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Thanks!
Hmm $349 for 4S - you kept a bit shtumb about that Andy, naughty little liebe kuchen
New KAISER, not king.
Not sure for a 12V battery with 200A continues current. Would the JK survive over time?
My $20 hobby charger can do 300mA (5W on 6s) Ballance, my 306b can do 80W Ballance on 6S (it's a 30A rc charger). Why so wimpy on a top of the line bms?
What if your batteries freeze. Will your active balancer damage your batteries?
Heya, oh yes a 16s JBD BMS would be great I would order 3 of them
Hi - is the standard 300A BMS OK? Does it also have a slot for a active balanceer / voltage controller? Id love the Muller but is over my budg6😪
I can’t find exactly same bms to buy or even to review 😭
Links are in the video description and on my website.
off-grid-garage.com/battery-management-systems-bms/
Nice! Thanks!
Any idea how to wire up the 20S in a 16S configuration? Instructions are pretty weak.
Williams Gary Thompson Brian Perez Michael