I don't think Ash v Tobias is the worst battle/ loss. Gotta save it for Ash and Cameron's 6v6. Especially since Cameron thought it was a 5v5 and still won.
@@razzdays Well, Black and White isn't a popular region among anime fans. And maybe part of the Cameron hate is that it was the region after Paul and Tobias. But having Ash lose to Cameron, ugh.
@@DrawciaGleam02in terms of ash v cameron yeah maybe, but in the alola league it felt like he shouldve had a full team just narratively. if he was gonna finally win
@@DrawciaGleam02 For Cameron, the trainer with 5 pokemon because it was a 5v5, yes. For Ash, the trainer with a full team of 6 pokemon, no. Also, Cameron has a really bad memory, he's late to things. He was probably the dumbest rival ever in the anime. And Ash lost to him, after being the first person in Sinnoh to defeat Tobias's Darkrai, then also defeating Latios.
The battle with Tobias was really hard to watch back then. Not going to lie, I love Torkoal, but I probably would have chosen either Charizard or Infernape at that point to go up against that Darkrai. The being put to sleep thing and then hit with Dream Eater is annoying as fuck. I know about that after being in my 4th gym battle in my playthrough of Pokemon Crystal. But seeing Ash do what others couldn't do by defeating Darkrai was incredible, despite Ash losing the semi-final. I understand why the writers did that, but it was still a BS move, in my opinion. That being said, the match between Ash and Paul was an epic way to settle the differences between the two of them. It really felt like Paul was trying to get the most out of the pokemon he had for the wrong reasons, while Ash wanted to get the most out of his pokemon but still shows his kindness and support to them. At first, I HATED Paul. Especially after he gave away the Azumarill he had to some kid after it lost to GYM LEADER Roark's Geodude. But after the Sinnoh League and then fast forwarding to "Journeys," I have some respect for him after how at the end of "Diamond and Pearl" Paul finally understood Ash's philosophy about how pokemon should be treated, and how pokemon battles should be won. Sinnoh will always be my favorite Pokemon series for what it delivered.
Not only is Tobias/Takuto a forced loss, it's not there to make him learn any lesson he hasn't learned yet and grow stronger and wiser, it's only there to be a roadblock to prevent him from winning. If he had managed to defeat Latios and could still go on, he would have probably pulled an Arceus! The writers' obsession with making him lose during the tournaments for Pokemon Champion was baffling to say the least, winning the tournament wasn't the end goal, it was to become a Pokemon Master, and becoming the champion was just part of the journey. And after all the legendary Pokemon he's encountered, all the times he helped or single handedly saved a city or the world, all the sidequests he's done and learned about all the creatures he's met along the way, by the time of Sinnoh he had more than earned the win in this tournament! Tobias isn't a character, he has no narrative purpose other than prevent Ash/Satoshi from winning the tournament. He has no presence before this saga and never shows up again after this is done! Darkrai surviving Heracross' Megahorn was also a major bullshit! They really should have let him win this tournament and focus on his journey after the win, showcasing how the title alone isn't enough to make him a Pokemon Master but does put him in a new stage that's closer to his goal. Tobias was just a middle finger to his progress!
The best really had his full aloha team since he has seven Pokémon in aloha. Pikachu, rowlet, Lycanroc,Incineroar, Naganadel The only ultra beast that can evolve, Melmetal his first mythical, and Solgaleo his first legendary. Naganadel, Melmetal, and Solgaleo don't really have a lot of battle experience in the anime since all three of these were babies when he got them.
Funny because I have the complete opposite opinion of you. I prefer the Tobias fight, and it holds an importance to me that I learned as a kid. Even when the odds don't look good, you try your hardest regardless. The fact that Ash took out Darkrai and Latios at all with everything stacked against him is a feat itself and proved he was a competent and strong trainer. It may be more petty why I dislike Ash vs Paul but its because Torterra was sidelined where Infernape gets to have the spotlight. Like literally every fucking time grass types never get to be the so called ace of his team apart from Sceptile who coincidentally finally got recognition in the proceeding battle. It happened again with Rowlett in Sun and Moon but at least he did get a W in Ash vs Kukui, which I still believe is the real best battle ever shown in the anime. It was a team effort where all of his Pokemon contributed. Not to mention Pikachu and Naganadel vs Tapu Koko are two of the best animated fights in the series.(ENGLISH SUBBED THAT IS)
I love Ash’s perseverance, but the fact that Tobias just showed up and we never hear from him again sucks, at least with Alain beating ash we got his mega evolution series. I can’t in good faith say that the Alola league is better than Sinnoh or Kalos even. I’ll have to rewatch all the leagues and make a video about Alola as well
@@razzdays Sometimes in life people will just show up and be instantly better than you, but the importance is in how you respond. Ash has guts for standing up to Tobias as well. Even if it’s not your favorite, I guarantee rewatching Alola League will have you appreciating it more. I think Alola gets character motivation better than pretty much any other series. Try Guzma vs Ash and pay more attention to its story implications. Highly recommend the original Japanese with subtitles.
No, it was hard to stay in the show after that BS. The Darkia movie was terrific, and Tobias felt like an insult to that despite the film not necessarily canon to the show. We have already seen the act of Ash losing and getting close to winning enough times at that point in the show. Many of his prior fights were also excellent. So, it's just a way to dampen the mood after a perfect battle.
yo this was honesty a good video! Its really good editing and good commentary keep it up! Should have way more views
I appreciate that! youre the real one for watching
I don't think Ash v Tobias is the worst battle/ loss. Gotta save it for Ash and Cameron's 6v6. Especially since Cameron thought it was a 5v5 and still won.
Honestly i barely remember anything from the unova season, I’ll have to give all the leagues a rewatch
@@razzdays Well, Black and White isn't a popular region among anime fans. And maybe part of the Cameron hate is that it was the region after Paul and Tobias. But having Ash lose to Cameron, ugh.
Hot take:
Isn't that considered a GOOD thing if you won a battle despite having a smaller team than your opponent????
@@DrawciaGleam02in terms of ash v cameron yeah maybe, but in the alola league it felt like he shouldve had a full team just narratively. if he was gonna finally win
@@DrawciaGleam02 For Cameron, the trainer with 5 pokemon because it was a 5v5, yes. For Ash, the trainer with a full team of 6 pokemon, no. Also, Cameron has a really bad memory, he's late to things. He was probably the dumbest rival ever in the anime. And Ash lost to him, after being the first person in Sinnoh to defeat Tobias's Darkrai, then also defeating Latios.
Remember that Cynthia is still the Champion later on the anime, so she does eventually defeat the hackers team.
the only saving grace
"garchomp, crush its skull."
We don't even know if they ever fought each other.
@@rocky_danger_buff5845I think the structure is they do the league tournament then take on the champion, i could be wrong though
@@RazzYears you do the tournament then you fight the elite four and then the champion
The battle with Tobias was really hard to watch back then. Not going to lie, I love Torkoal, but I probably would have chosen either Charizard or Infernape at that point to go up against that Darkrai. The being put to sleep thing and then hit with Dream Eater is annoying as fuck. I know about that after being in my 4th gym battle in my playthrough of Pokemon Crystal. But seeing Ash do what others couldn't do by defeating Darkrai was incredible, despite Ash losing the semi-final. I understand why the writers did that, but it was still a BS move, in my opinion. That being said, the match between Ash and Paul was an epic way to settle the differences between the two of them. It really felt like Paul was trying to get the most out of the pokemon he had for the wrong reasons, while Ash wanted to get the most out of his pokemon but still shows his kindness and support to them. At first, I HATED Paul. Especially after he gave away the Azumarill he had to some kid after it lost to GYM LEADER Roark's Geodude. But after the Sinnoh League and then fast forwarding to "Journeys," I have some respect for him after how at the end of "Diamond and Pearl" Paul finally understood Ash's philosophy about how pokemon should be treated, and how pokemon battles should be won. Sinnoh will always be my favorite Pokemon series for what it delivered.
ash was too goated they had to kill him with bullshit. if pikachu somehow survived Latios would have fucking sent out Arceus.
Let’s go! Quite the battle
Not only is Tobias/Takuto a forced loss, it's not there to make him learn any lesson he hasn't learned yet and grow stronger and wiser, it's only there to be a roadblock to prevent him from winning. If he had managed to defeat Latios and could still go on, he would have probably pulled an Arceus!
The writers' obsession with making him lose during the tournaments for Pokemon Champion was baffling to say the least, winning the tournament wasn't the end goal, it was to become a Pokemon Master, and becoming the champion was just part of the journey. And after all the legendary Pokemon he's encountered, all the times he helped or single handedly saved a city or the world, all the sidequests he's done and learned about all the creatures he's met along the way, by the time of Sinnoh he had more than earned the win in this tournament!
Tobias isn't a character, he has no narrative purpose other than prevent Ash/Satoshi from winning the tournament. He has no presence before this saga and never shows up again after this is done! Darkrai surviving Heracross' Megahorn was also a major bullshit!
They really should have let him win this tournament and focus on his journey after the win, showcasing how the title alone isn't enough to make him a Pokemon Master but does put him in a new stage that's closer to his goal. Tobias was just a middle finger to his progress!
Staraptor shouldnt have been hit by the mud being a flying type
Love Pokémon!
Satoshi:Sinnoh boku no yume doko ka
The best really had his full aloha team since he has seven Pokémon in aloha. Pikachu, rowlet, Lycanroc,Incineroar, Naganadel The only ultra beast that can evolve, Melmetal his first mythical, and Solgaleo his first legendary. Naganadel, Melmetal, and Solgaleo don't really have a lot of battle experience in the anime since all three of these were babies when he got them.
naganadel only came back for the championship match though, not the whole league so thats why i said the team of 5
Battle Frontier overall, imo had the best battles
Funny because I have the complete opposite opinion of you. I prefer the Tobias fight, and it holds an importance to me that I learned as a kid. Even when the odds don't look good, you try your hardest regardless. The fact that Ash took out Darkrai and Latios at all with everything stacked against him is a feat itself and proved he was a competent and strong trainer.
It may be more petty why I dislike Ash vs Paul but its because Torterra was sidelined where Infernape gets to have the spotlight. Like literally every fucking time grass types never get to be the so called ace of his team apart from Sceptile who coincidentally finally got recognition in the proceeding battle.
It happened again with Rowlett in Sun and Moon but at least he did get a W in Ash vs Kukui, which I still believe is the real best battle ever shown in the anime. It was a team effort where all of his Pokemon contributed. Not to mention Pikachu and Naganadel vs Tapu Koko are two of the best animated fights in the series.(ENGLISH SUBBED THAT IS)
I love Ash’s perseverance, but the fact that Tobias just showed up and we never hear from him again sucks, at least with Alain beating ash we got his mega evolution series.
I can’t in good faith say that the Alola league is better than Sinnoh or Kalos even. I’ll have to rewatch all the leagues and make a video about Alola as well
@@razzdays Sometimes in life people will just show up and be instantly better than you, but the importance is in how you respond. Ash has guts for standing up to Tobias as well.
Even if it’s not your favorite, I guarantee rewatching Alola League will have you appreciating it more. I think Alola gets character motivation better than pretty much any other series. Try Guzma vs Ash and pay more attention to its story implications. Highly recommend the original Japanese with subtitles.
@@razzdaysye Alola league is way better. Kalos league is a bunch of nothing. Sinnoh is good, but can't compete with peak
No, it was hard to stay in the show after that BS. The Darkia movie was terrific, and Tobias felt like an insult to that despite the film not necessarily canon to the show. We have already seen the act of Ash losing and getting close to winning enough times at that point in the show. Many of his prior fights were also excellent. So, it's just a way to dampen the mood after a perfect battle.