One note: when I say the "x-velocity" of the projectiles, I'm referring to how the x and y directions work in game. (0, 0) is the leftmost corner, x increases towards the northeast, and y increases towards the southeast. Three more corrections: - In the original game the Siege Onager rocks just "exploded" upon hitting the edge, as though they had hit the ground. The "rolling" behavior was introduced at some point in the UserPatch, and interestingly enough still is present in DE. If you shoot the edge in HD, you get the original behavior. - Secondary projectiles can in fact damage units other than the intended target. The real explanation is that missed projectiles do not do a minimum damage of 1 in the case when they don't have an armor class that affects the object they end up hitting. There are cases where missed secondary projectiles can do damage to the objects they hit. - In the RCT example, turns out you get different behavior if you shoot guests off of different sides of the map. Depending on if the x or y coordinate of the side you're launching at is 0 or at the maximum value (999 in OpenRCT2), you can hit the vertical wall. But if there's room for the map to be extended in that direction, the cars have the behavior shown in the video.
next patch: some guy changes one line of code related to monk conversions and now the map ceiling is .5 tiles off the ground causing most projectiles to hit it
@@nathangamble125 And every update also has to fix it. It's Schrödinger's pathfinding: it works _and_ doesn't, until observed. This game will pioneer quantum computing!
Yeah, I saw it recently with scorpion projectiles...when they just reflected and continue to fly, I was impressed by the magic! Looks like developers played with "the beyond" in one of the recent patches.
@@JhoferGamer On the subject of gazing out into the void beyond the map and wondering why things float in space, or bounce off, that's what prompted me to start thinking.
Quite the discovery! I was half-expecting those projectiles to crash against the map boundary rather than roll along the edge. Reminds me of another janky roll-along behaviour from the Age of series: in AoM, projectiles against buildings don't deal damage until they hit the base of said building, and sometimes that projectile will just drop down upon hitting a higher part of that entity to make sure that damage is dealt! It might be easiest to observe by shooting at a gate (like certain campaign examples with a stone exterior wall but wooden gate), or sometimes towers, with a catapult or certain archer variations.
A few months ago i had longbowmen consistently shooting out of the map at x=0 and ymax (South) and the arrows were falling below the map. I just had to target units that were running towards the ymax edge of the map and the movement prediction of the longbowmen was making them shoot further south.
I used CaptureAge to zoom out really far. You can have it running while playing a single-player game. I haven't tried that scenario yet, not sure whether I'll get around to it.
@@T-West 7 I see. You should try it out and make a video of it, as you can hear the whispers of Lord Daut guiding you through the way. Plus the characters are voiced by He himself!
I Distinctly remember from AOE1 that a killed scout with its dramatic death animation does go over the edge of the map? Did DE put up an invisible wall after or was this always in AOK?
Units that die at the edge of the map may have graphics that fall over the edge. The "center" of the unit/graphics will still be on the map. You can place objects that are centered on the map but extend off the edge if you get creative with map scripting too. Some of the fish in an early version of Cross we had used for TTL were like this before I adjusted them---a 2x2 object that was "centered" on a tile adjacent to the edge of the map.
Should have used a unit with a larger hitbox, like some elephant or treb? Or does the hitbox edge decide how close to the wall they can get? Since the circle is bigger, more area should still be closer to the edge than the halbs small one though.
From extensive childhood testing in the editor I can safely say that in AoE3, there is an endless abyss at the edge of the map, and units shot over the edge by artillery, will drop down there. I can not recall how it might work in AoM with the different ways it throws units and projectiles.
About ceiling: Bombard Cannon's shot raise quite high. I once modify its range to 9999...999, and it was able to hit the target on the other side of the map. The projectile initially shoot almost directly upward, but can still able to fall down and hit the target. I don't know how to zoom out that much to see the whole arc though.
The map simpy has a cube collider on it, pretty standard for all kinds of such games like Starcarft, Warcraft, DOTA, ... except some special spagetti ones such as LoL or uniquely coded ones such as the old Roler Coaster Tycoons (Assembler ftw!).
Either way is better than how the 1st generation C&C games did it, which is to cause a crash (if the projectile was somehow not deleted by then) if the projectile (or unit) exceeds the top or bottom edge of the map (the actual 128x128 map, not the player map bounds that may be smaller). That is because the game will try to determine the cell ID of a location, and extending vertically beyond the 128x128 grid means getting into invalid IDs and bogus data read for them.
I can already imagine the answer but still i have to make this question: Have you tried with ballistic-predicted projectiles? Are arrows as well stopped at the edge of the map? Sometimes those kind of ballistic-predicted projectiles from BBT get bugged into the surface as the elevation also varies so they may bug out when reaching the edge. Also, if it bounces off the edge, it may hit the supposed target without group controlling it?
The Chu Ko Nu example I had in the video used Ballistics, while I was dodging it with the Scout. I think the answer show be, if the Scout were running into the all (instead of along it) and turned, the Ballistics arrows still would "lead" the target and hit the wall. Chakram Thrower discs are another projectile that would be interesting to check.
For my previous comment: As a player of Age of Kings, I would add the trigger as condition-timer-1sec and effect-change diplomacy- player2... & Player1 enemy
Hey, did you test what happens when a ranged unit with ballistics shoots at a target moving towards the edge of the map? Does ballistics take into account the borders of the map or not?
Didn't look for that specifically, but I think it would lead the target and hit the edge of the map if the target were right next to the boundary. A Chu Ko Nu along the edge with a cav unit running directly into the edge would probably be a good way to test that.
No way! I got mandela effect'd and believed there is no projectile boundary for mangonels or even arrows. I always imagine the shot went through and hit the black area as it like hitting the normal ground with dust kicking up. Looking them just bounce back shook my perspective for this game!
Indeed it shocked me too, when I noticed this in one of my games some months ago. Now i doubt this is a new change, I guess it's so unusual that mostly we don't see or notice it. I bet many Amazon tunnel enjoyers have known this for long time 11
C&C maps have a bit of space beyond the visual edge that's still mapped, so it's closer to the Rollercoaster Tycoon result. If your shot passes beyond the actual map boundaries as well (hard 128x128 with an arbitrary up to 64x64 box within it playable in TD and Red Alert, usually a few tiles around the edges in TS/RA2, usually a few dozen feet in Generals/C&C3) it'll just phase out of existence.
I casted a few Coast to Mountain games where Trebs were at the tile on top of the mountain, and the back end of their graphics were extended off of the edge.
@@T-West Mmmh, if it wasn't you i don't know. I remember someone testet shoting with trebs on galleys on the north of the map in editor. Sometimes the treb shot over the edge of the map. Maybe someone else knows what i am talking about.
@@T-West Found it! It wasn't you. It was Poop Lord, and he wasn't shooting over the edge. He was hitting a wall like you did: ua-cam.com/video/3JopLZfuNIc/v-deo.htmlsi=ursiYg3OM39A5gmv&t=317
Hey, i remember your pacifist campaigns where you tried to kill zero units. How about you try the opposite and try to defeat every.other.player other than you, including allies?
One note: when I say the "x-velocity" of the projectiles, I'm referring to how the x and y directions work in game. (0, 0) is the leftmost corner, x increases towards the northeast, and y increases towards the southeast.
Three more corrections:
- In the original game the Siege Onager rocks just "exploded" upon hitting the edge, as though they had hit the ground. The "rolling" behavior was introduced at some point in the UserPatch, and interestingly enough still is present in DE. If you shoot the edge in HD, you get the original behavior.
- Secondary projectiles can in fact damage units other than the intended target. The real explanation is that missed projectiles do not do a minimum damage of 1 in the case when they don't have an armor class that affects the object they end up hitting. There are cases where missed secondary projectiles can do damage to the objects they hit.
- In the RCT example, turns out you get different behavior if you shoot guests off of different sides of the map. Depending on if the x or y coordinate of the side you're launching at is 0 or at the maximum value (999 in OpenRCT2), you can hit the vertical wall. But if there's room for the map to be extended in that direction, the cars have the behavior shown in the video.
Thanks for clarifying, Travis!
This is a niche weird edge-case (ha, literally) and I love it.
I love seeing you here my fellow citizen.
imagine this collab haha
When worlds collide
you'll laugh so hard you'll swear you've died
when worlds collide
T-West really is the Marcel Vos of AoE
Immediately thought "I wonder if Marcel saw this" when he opened rct2
what it means is, that all aoe units live a depressing life inside a snow globe, waiting for us to shake it so they can move and kill each other off.
That halberdier surely avoided a terrible fate
next patch: some guy changes one line of code related to monk conversions and now the map ceiling is .5 tiles off the ground causing most projectiles to hit it
And then somehow brake the pathfinding
@@alanbareiro6806 Well, that goes without saying. Every update has to break pathfinding in some way, it's the law!
@@nathangamble125 And every update also has to fix it. It's Schrödinger's pathfinding: it works _and_ doesn't, until observed. This game will pioneer quantum computing!
5:10 I wanna see neutral towers like these in the next dave's funhouse.
I wish BBTs had this 0 accuracy gatling sprinkler tech
10/10 OP Sprinkling Bombard Towers confirmed
I was gonna say the same thing, lmfao. It's like the prison sentry guns in Idiocracy
Siege Onager discovers the edge of his world and realizes he’s in a Matrix.
Yeah, I saw it recently with scorpion projectiles...when they just reflected and continue to fly, I was impressed by the magic! Looks like developers played with "the beyond" in one of the recent patches.
Unbelievable
T-West uploading 3 vids within 2 weeks
I remember this in Aoe1 with unit corpses (especially the calvary riders go flying) going off the map and seeing them on the same plane.
that's just because of the fact that it uses fixed sprites for animation
@@JhoferGamer On the subject of gazing out into the void beyond the map and wondering why things float in space, or bounce off, that's what prompted me to start thinking.
Kinda scary how excited this makes you.
Even scarier that I actually watched the whole thing on a sturday night!
Quite the discovery! I was half-expecting those projectiles to crash against the map boundary rather than roll along the edge.
Reminds me of another janky roll-along behaviour from the Age of series: in AoM, projectiles against buildings don't deal damage until they hit the base of said building, and sometimes that projectile will just drop down upon hitting a higher part of that entity to make sure that damage is dealt! It might be easiest to observe by shooting at a gate (like certain campaign examples with a stone exterior wall but wooden gate), or sometimes towers, with a catapult or certain archer variations.
A few months ago i had longbowmen consistently shooting out of the map at x=0 and ymax (South) and the arrows were falling below the map.
I just had to target units that were running towards the ymax edge of the map and the movement prediction of the longbowmen was making them shoot further south.
If ever there is a map where the bottom of the map is some place relevant, that could be a trick pros could use
That bombard tower at the end seems to have eaten some objectionable food
It was probably hunted from a tree.
2:15 how were you able to zoom out that much. By the way, are you going to create a video/playthrough on the "Merchantilism" scenario T west?
I used CaptureAge to zoom out really far. You can have it running while playing a single-player game.
I haven't tried that scenario yet, not sure whether I'll get around to it.
@@T-West 7 I see. You should try it out and make a video of it, as you can hear the whispers of Lord Daut guiding you through the way. Plus the characters are voiced by He himself!
This might be the most edgy video you've ever made
Flat Earth (Dome) confirmed
This is indeed better than the "crop shot"
4:00 although have vertical walls in 2 of the 4 edges
That 0 accuracy bombard tower is hilariously satisfying to watch!😁
I Distinctly remember from AOE1 that a killed scout with its dramatic death animation does go over the edge of the map? Did DE put up an invisible wall after or was this always in AOK?
Units that die at the edge of the map may have graphics that fall over the edge. The "center" of the unit/graphics will still be on the map. You can place objects that are centered on the map but extend off the edge if you get creative with map scripting too. Some of the fish in an early version of Cross we had used for TTL were like this before I adjusted them---a 2x2 object that was "centered" on a tile adjacent to the edge of the map.
Should have used a unit with a larger hitbox, like some elephant or treb? Or does the hitbox edge decide how close to the wall they can get?
Since the circle is bigger, more area should still be closer to the edge than the halbs small one though.
From extensive childhood testing in the editor I can safely say that in AoE3, there is an endless abyss at the edge of the map, and units shot over the edge by artillery, will drop down there. I can not recall how it might work in AoM with the different ways it throws units and projectiles.
It's the very small things like this video that make life worth living.
About ceiling:
Bombard Cannon's shot raise quite high. I once modify its range to 9999...999, and it was able to hit the target on the other side of the map.
The projectile initially shoot almost directly upward, but can still able to fall down and hit the target. I don't know how to zoom out that much to see the whole arc though.
CaptureAge would be the best bet. Otherwise we might be able to analyze the rec to get height stats.
Had the safest park achievement in roller coaster tycoon while launching guests in all directions to their deaths lol
The map simpy has a cube collider on it, pretty standard for all kinds of such games like Starcarft, Warcraft, DOTA, ... except some special spagetti ones such as LoL or uniquely coded ones such as the old Roler Coaster Tycoons (Assembler ftw!).
Either way is better than how the 1st generation C&C games did it, which is to cause a crash (if the projectile was somehow not deleted by then) if the projectile (or unit) exceeds the top or bottom edge of the map (the actual 128x128 map, not the player map bounds that may be smaller).
That is because the game will try to determine the cell ID of a location, and extending vertically beyond the 128x128 grid means getting into invalid IDs and bogus data read for them.
I guess if there's not a solid wall our pathing would sure make units fall into or get through that void
Indeed good contents man
I can already imagine the answer but still i have to make this question:
Have you tried with ballistic-predicted projectiles? Are arrows as well stopped at the edge of the map?
Sometimes those kind of ballistic-predicted projectiles from BBT get bugged into the surface as the elevation also varies so they may bug out when reaching the edge.
Also, if it bounces off the edge, it may hit the supposed target without group controlling it?
The Chu Ko Nu example I had in the video used Ballistics, while I was dodging it with the Scout. I think the answer show be, if the Scout were running into the all (instead of along it) and turned, the Ballistics arrows still would "lead" the target and hit the wall. Chakram Thrower discs are another projectile that would be interesting to check.
That’s the kind of information I absorb to the fullest. Don’t ask me anything I only saw once in college.
Omg it's Mike Empires, I'm a big fan. Like a mill in feudal age
For my previous comment:
As a player of Age of Kings, I would add the trigger as condition-timer-1sec and effect-change diplomacy- player2... & Player1 enemy
"Everyone Lives"
"Safest park award"
Thx Travis I've always dying to find out ❤
RCT and AOE2 in one video is automatic S-Tier quality
I've noticed this behavior with missed treb shots when attacking a building on the edge of the map. Definitely caused a doubletake.
Hey, did you test what happens when a ranged unit with ballistics shoots at a target moving towards the edge of the map? Does ballistics take into account the borders of the map or not?
Didn't look for that specifically, but I think it would lead the target and hit the edge of the map if the target were right next to the boundary. A Chu Ko Nu along the edge with a cav unit running directly into the edge would probably be a good way to test that.
This video is what I expect from this channel XD
I think in AoE 1, stuff just exploded or stopped when it reached the edge of the map horizontally.
5:00 lol at that bbt :D
5:02 man i really wish this was how BBT always performed!
OK new bug: An visible wall with perfectly inelastic collision. Physics is out of the window.
This is SO exciting
this is where all the cpu cycles are going that could be used for pathing
No way! I got mandela effect'd and believed there is no projectile boundary for mangonels or even arrows. I always imagine the shot went through and hit the black area as it like hitting the normal ground with dust kicking up.
Looking them just bounce back shook my perspective for this game!
Indeed it shocked me too, when I noticed this in one of my games some months ago. Now i doubt this is a new change, I guess it's so unusual that mostly we don't see or notice it. I bet many Amazon tunnel enjoyers have known this for long time 11
It doesn't matter, but yet we watch it
King along the edge of the map is the best/most useful situation I can think of.
Oh boi, if there's ever a regicide game ended with a King getting sniped by a Treb shot rolling along the edge of the map, that would be epic.
@@T-West In my mind it's the mediaeval equivalent of 'Q Sending you to the Big Bang in Startrek'.
That was actually really cool.
Classic T-West. Thanks s2
Someone fire a mini nuke off the edge of the map in C&C Generals to see what happens there
C&C maps have a bit of space beyond the visual edge that's still mapped, so it's closer to the Rollercoaster Tycoon result. If your shot passes beyond the actual map boundaries as well (hard 128x128 with an arbitrary up to 64x64 box within it playable in TD and Red Alert, usually a few tiles around the edges in TS/RA2, usually a few dozen feet in Generals/C&C3) it'll just phase out of existence.
Skirmishers missed shots bounce around if you shoot targets at the border
3:08 - when the teacher gives the whole group a bag of balls on physical education
When I saw RCT, I only went to the comments to see if Marcel Vos had commented on the video.
4:20 the ride never ends
do you think theyll ever add skeleton remainings to dead units
Probably not, but I'd like to mod them in some day.
Someone knows how to have fun!
* Weird knowledge increased* + cat picture
Didn't you make a video some time ago where a treb shot over the edge of the map?
I casted a few Coast to Mountain games where Trebs were at the tile on top of the mountain, and the back end of their graphics were extended off of the edge.
@@T-West Mmmh, if it wasn't you i don't know. I remember someone testet shoting with trebs on galleys on the north of the map in editor. Sometimes the treb shot over the edge of the map.
Maybe someone else knows what i am talking about.
@@T-West Found it! It wasn't you. It was Poop Lord, and he wasn't shooting over the edge. He was hitting a wall like you did:
ua-cam.com/video/3JopLZfuNIc/v-deo.htmlsi=ursiYg3OM39A5gmv&t=317
@@T-West Found a comment in the video i linked where someone saw this in a game: ua-cam.com/users/liveUeNdB5VOLQw?si=wcYFouKeGDgicXyU&t=23835
Last 5 seconds are me sending wyd at 3am
I would say this is how the game ensures conservation of mass, but then where does the infinite gold from trade and relics come from?
To test the ceiling of the map, a longbow or maybe treb would have shot way higher in the air, than the bbt
I might have to run it again and mod the projectile arc of a unit to be even higher.
Is it possible that by using triggers, instead of you killing others, you could make every ally against you tho
?
Not sure exactly what you mean by this? Editing the scenarios to make all players enemies?
Yeah, just making every player, including allies to set their diplomacy enemy to you.
"Safest Park Award"
clearly the best solution would be to have walls that bounce the projectiles off for massive damage
Would definitely be fun if you could attack ground the walls and have the rocks reflect off.
I noticed this in a viper video a few years back! I could go find the comment but, eh
I think this video could be posted on October 12th...
Dude.., Siege Perfect!👌
RIP camel 😢
Next video - Did invisible wall exist in HD and CD version of the game?
Yes it did.
@@T-West Oh wow. I thought it was a DE addition along with all the 100 projectile behaviour changes.
1:58 lol
This is a good reference for flat-earthers! lol
dude that's a cruise missile in AoE 2:12
Hey, i remember your pacifist campaigns where you tried to kill zero units. How about you try the opposite and try to defeat every.other.player other than you, including allies?
Hmm not sure how interesting that would be, lots of just changing diplomacy or attack grounding with Mangonels. Might get pretty repetitive.
yea, might get repetitive
Oh yea you're right...
Welp
@@T-West Is there any campaign map where you're supposed to play defensively without allies? That could be a fun place to try it.
@@danieltoth9742 The lion and the demon is already an example of this, and T-west had beat it, but not sure about other scenarios tho
Someone, some day will hit a king in the head with this trick on regicide.
Always Happy when TWest post something new. But I hope someday for new pacifist campaign
I wish that projectiles and units could fall off the map instead
Ahhhh, good ol' pacifist cheering in Rollercoaster Tychoon
flat earthers enter the chat
Marcel Vos call he want you out of is lane
me as a kid in editor:
I've never been so early
Go look at the map edge on world of tanks...
I mean obviously, we all know the earth is flat.
sik af
Comment for the algorithm
This must be proof of flat earth theory.
Proof the world in AoE is flat
Flat earth confirmed
Flat Earthers watching this 😮
stop talkin like that