The Eight Hundred: A Chinese War Epic | Video Essay
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- Опубліковано 16 жов 2024
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Accented Cinema - Episode 55
The Eight Hundred came out last year in the middle of the pandemic and became the highest-grossing film of 2020. For a couple of months, people talk about this movie non-stop. While most of the discussion focuses on the film's historical accuracy, I want to focus on the film itself, mainly its depiction of heroism.
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Have you seen The Eight Hundred? What's your opinion on this movie?
@@commonprosperity4all675 It is a different breed of war film than what you'd expect from Mainland China. It features the Republic's army instead of the communist party forces. It did not demonize the Japanese army (the same way Dunkirk didn't demonize the Axis power). It focuses on the soldiers instead of leaders. I'd say it has merits and worth a watch.
Great Movie
@@commonprosperity4all675 I think it *is* commissioned by the CCP, but it's unusually good for state-mandated media. Commissioned by the government doesn't necessarily mean bad, it just means there's going to be a lot more government oversight and at least a little bit of propaganda. Even the US does this with some big films - the first Ironman was sponsored by the US military and paid money to depict the military in a good light.
I really liked this film and it was great to see on a big screen (with very few other audience members - it got a large release in the UK for some reason). It moves past being simple propaganda and was very well executed.
@@commonprosperity4all675 I can also confirm that this movie at least is not propaganda from CCP as the movie portray people as all grey, both Chinese and Japanese. Seriously, this is the Chinese movie that not makes the Japanese "a stupid soldier just to be shot on screen"
Six years ago, the apartment I rented overlooked Sihang warehouse from the south side of Suzhou Creek. Like a dummy always wondered why it wasn’t developed despite being such prime real estate. Then I saw the closing scene of this movie and my jaw dropped.
You can actually visit the warehouse. It is a museum now to remember the battle. Another good museum site in Shanghai is the former of home of John Rabe. Humans are indeed strange and we don't fit in a box and are beyond definition. Who would have thought that the word 𝘨𝘰𝘰𝘥 and 𝘕𝘢𝘻𝘪 came together but it did in John Rabe
@@jinngeechia9715 Thanks! And I definitely visited the warehouse first weekend after the movie. Curious, are you Shanghainese?
I lived right across the river in the 90s. I've only been to the warehouse recently after they renovated it as an museum. Back in the day it was just an empty bullet hole ridden building.
@ZenPhilosopher123 Also Karl Rudolph Werner Best
@@jinngeechia9715 Nazi was founded on good intentions. It was the Nazi elite and SS that were the monsters we think of. Sadly, it is eaiser to villainize a country and its symbol, than actually learn the truth of things.
a friend of mine keeps suggesting this movie to me but i am generally not a fan of mainland chinese cinema. you've convinced me to give it a shot.
Oh hey Anton! Did not expect you to see you here! :D
What a bizarrely unexpected crossover
hey ranton what are you reviewing next?
@@richardyang3488
If you thought that was a bizarre crossover, take a look at the Ranton and Vaush convo that happened a while back. Ranton is based and poggers.
Also @Ranton, it was great seeing you in that convo with Vaush. Definitely wasn't expecting it. I'd also like to give a movie recommendation, if you're interested. It's an American movie called "The Farewell" directed by Lulu Wang. Trust me, I think anyone from an Asian immigrant family can relate super hard to. Definitely check it out if you get the chance.
What i like about this movie is so much :
1. The Chinese are speaking Mandarin with their own respective local accent/dialect
2. The IJA troops are depicted in a terrific way, such as the weapons, formation, discipline etc, which are rare in most Chinese WWII film
3. Its not only shown the brutalness of Sino-Japanese war, but also the differences between rich and poor people/class during war time, which are quite interesting
Fun fact the people who plays the Japanese were actually trained by JSDF officer
@@mr.z2269 Prove? lol so you mean JSDF are only on par with their WWII ancestor, which failed
I also noticed the rich/poor split in the people across the river from the warehouse. That's why my favorite scene is when the rich casino worker guy just goes complete beast mode and sacrifices himself to get the cable across the bridge. Definitely challenges the whole `wealthy people are cowardly` trend in movies movies
By Mandarin do you mean Chinese? Mandarin is a dialect itself and not a group of accents/dialects, I think
@@user-ty2fm3ge9m You can literally google the different accents in mandarin. Like Cantonese is not a dialect or accent of Mandarin. Cantonese is a whole separate language (along with Shanghainese). And all these languages are considered Chinese, because they originate in China. I'm pretty sure India has a similar situation of having multiple languages, but much more extreme.
China technically have multiple spoken languages but all have the same written language due to how China got united and have the written language standardized. The reason this written language can do this is because it's not a phonetic language. It's like how the Koreans in history wrote in Chinese, but they spoke in Korean. Now they don't write in Chinese anymore, but it still appears here and there. The Koreans instead made there own phonetic alphabet. Chinese being a non-phonetic language does have it's advantages, but that's a different topic.
But the current china is trying to make everyone use Mandarin and have the same accent.
What also pleased me the most as Malaysian Chinese, is that, there are different dialect of Chinese speaking in the film. Shown that each of them came from different region and getting wound up in this.
I'm so used to the modern chinese accent that I was confused what they were saying.
didn't that dialect technically comes from China lmao? Is just Southern Chinese immigrating there fleeing the KMT, hence why majority of Malaysian Chinese supports mainland China?
@@HEEHEEBOII Well, for one. I don't really support Mainland China, to be specific, PRC and Xi. I like the Chinese culture;
@@ElliFong that's fine you are probably more Malaysian than Chinese anyways. No one says you HAVE to support. But I live in Canada and I find that more Chinese from Indonesia and Malaysia support the motherland as compared to HK/Taiwan. Some Taiwan people I know their grandparents comes from Mainland but they show no love you know what I mean?
@@HEEHEEBOII Yeah, the rest of my family support the mainland. I am the odd one out here lol
"MY NAME IS LIU BEIWU!!!" Damn... I cried at that moment of your review. I'll definitely watch this movie.
"And i fight in the name of benevolence!"
Kind of like that witness me scene from mad max fury road.
@@shazzatulanam6680 There are some differences between them. "Witness me" is meant to show the madness of the Warboys. "My Name is Liu Beiwu" shows that these are people that are more than corpses with explosives strapped to them
@@aphato2770 i always thought witness me meant remember me and my sacrifice.
@@shazzatulanam6680 it's mostly done for their family. In the movie, they sort of gave their items or letter to other soldiers. Shouting their name is just their last hurray before doing the inevitable and giving self-boost. There's nothing heroic or sublime in their act. It's pure anger and despair.
Watched this with my Chinese dad. I actually had to go to a sketchy website for the Chinese subtitles as we both didn’t understand the dialects being spoken. We speak Mandarin, and throughout the movie, they mainly spoke Sichuanese and Shanghainese dialects.
My father was a PLA corporal in the 70s. He told me that back then, they would recruit personnel from the same region/province, as each of them had their own dialects, and it was much easier this way.
Nowadays, the people still speak the dialects, but of course everyone knows Mandarin. Its like speaking Canadian-French in Quebec Canada, but you would know English of course.
Because at that time no one political in the sense of China, the so-called dialect and Finnish, polish, is German, and Latin dialects, geography in China is actually a holy Roman empire, is not a modern national country, communist PRC and roc nationalists, are similar to saddam hussein's Arab imperialists
The PLA are bandits, Taliban terrorists, robbing our family's land and factories, killing private property owners, the SOURCE of the PLA is forced recruitment, and attracting social hooligans
@@joeyjohn2843 Man shut the fuck up we don't want to hear your schizophrenic ramblings
@@dieguito3422 CASTRO TOOK MY FAMILY'S EGG SLAVE MONOPOLY
@@joeyjohn2843 There was a political entity in China as a continuation of the Qing just overthrowing manchu rule. Sun yatsen, the representative of guangdong, chiang kaishek, representative of zhejiang, Mao zedong, representative of hunan, Deng xiaoping, representative of sichuan, all united to continue the political entity of China prior to 1927.
I'll admit, I seriously teared up at the scene of the men jumping with bombs. My entire family is Polish, and I can sympathize with the idea of a futile battle for freedom. The fact that those wars were so pointless really hits me hard, because it makes me realize how lucky I am to not live through something similar. It seems to be a most cruel twist of fate, and nothing more, that my ancestors and the Chinese people had to suffer through such a war.
Yea, the vietnam war is the same either, expecialy from 1945 to 1954. But the soldiers in my country is quite different from this film. I mean i have a old soldier told me stories about the war and he said: Well, we already know that join the war mean we will die for 50%. it just that after experience the pain and suffer of being dominate by outer forces and a rotten royalty who sell their own people, dies for a new gov with liberate and for a future where the kid is no longer get starve, rape, beat, force labor to dead, become meat shield in western war, selling their own Very last dignity for just a little bit of food for the day is a pretty good price for them. That to say the vietnam war is more nationism than communisn. There no need for proganda like chinese since every piece of life around a kid back then was already the greatest proganda ever.
Edit: it 1945-1954 war :v sorry i mistype this :v
The real injustice wasn't the Sino-Japanese war. The real injustice was the Chinese communists who did barely anything the entire war except trying to hinder our efforts. After the war, they used the left-behind Japanese equipment to turn on battle weary troops. We had suffered 12 million casaulties throughout the war and could not fend them off. My great grandparents were murdered by the communist scum who took over China.
@@中华民国万岁-c4g yea, same communism but mine was much more better than china...
@@litznguyen3505 China probably would have gone down the path of Vietnam if we had been oppressed by the west like them in 1911, with only the Soviets to help.
@@litznguyen3505 I'm interested if your family lived in the North or South of Vietnam? My family lived in Huế and had an experience unlike yours. Mine loved the western culture and eventually fled the country "boat people". They also said life was worse under North Vietnam which led them to make a decision to leave.
The anti-glorification of war is something that cinema desperately needs! :(
Just like Saving Private Ryan (1998).Its shame that its did not win Oscar Award.
@@alamalam5594 isn't that fucking Romeo Juliet story won?
@@Snp2024 yess
Movies that look at war from every possible angle, which is interesting.
@@Tethloach1 yeah and that why i like this war film such as Patton,The Hacksaw Ridge,Saving Private Ryan and Stalingrad.Not only its tell story about character,but its Also tell history fact about how war is cruel and how these men sacrifice to protect their country
the men screaming their name and jumping to their death brought tears to my eyes
fuck
same here
a great scene but didn't happen like that in real history
@@dougwong7827 that's a good thing
Only 10 KIA and 37 WIA. However, one Chinese did jump from the roof with live grenades.
why did they have to jump in with the bombs? They couldn't ignite the fuse and drop the bombs?
There's been a theme in Chinese media lately, Operation Red Sea, The Wandering Earth, The 800, all had the least advertising, but they ended up out performing all the other films released in the same time.
Chinese audiences know a good movie when they see one
Well, we've seen too much crap like Wolf Warrior, so we know what a good film is from a bad film pretty well.
Personally nothing compares to old HK wuxia movies
@@SenkoKitsune Wolf Warrior is just a typical Hollywood mainstream movie, just in Chinese perspective. It's not good, also not bad, just don't put bias in it.
Is red sea good it not it just kind of like wolf warrior set in middle east. Kind of like your typical modern military action movie.
You forgot "White Snake" and "Ne Zha"
I wouldn't associate Operation Red Sea with the following two. While it doesn't reach Wolf Warrior type of uber nationalism, it's still there, and is pretty much the Chinese equivalent of Black Hawk Down.
The scene where the soldiers started jumping off the buildings while shouting their names, hometown, and farewell to their parents is very emotional. Damn.
My favourite film of 2020
I cried when I heard and saw it...
When the casino worker ran across the bridge and sacrificed himself. He was a civilian but a complete badass, one of the best scenes I think
@@geechyguy3441 This may not have been obvious to non-Chinese, but the civilians volunteering to run the phone cable across the bridge (including the casino dude) were gangsters. Shanghai was basically run by the powerful triads at the time, so there were a lot of them in the city.
Films like this shows the growing maturity of Chinese films.
As much as I want to think you are right, the current political climate in the mainland won’t help with the growth. I foresee these movies got banned and censored, and more movie like Wolf Worrier or XiaoShiDai type will be the future mainstream of the next decade. There is something funny about the history, it always repeat, and putting them on the screen foreshadow the future. For a country trying close out the information flow from the rest of the world, they will not appreciate a diverse voice in their narrative
@Eric Tian I admire your optimism, however, from my understanding, the people of mainland China have no control on the domestic market, what can be played or even wrote is only up to the CCP. I never watched Jin Gang Shan, however, I understand Jin Gang Shan is a CCP story, of course it being promoted. With the death of subtitles group and following censorship policies, Chinese citizens access to other culture have been gradually lost since 2014, and gradually, people’s taste in art will change, which mean censored movie will change along with their taste as well. It’s just a downward spiral from here. Remember, only 10% of the Chinese have a passport, 90% of them can’t afford to leave
@@kevinw4267 Things don't change overnight. Surely I still dislike most of the film and TV shows in China due to their nationalistic sentiments, but I do recognize how much they have changed with respect to time. I remember when I was little (only about 15 years ago), the KMT characters were almost always depicted as evil, stupid, and/or insane. Today you can even see humane depictions of the Japanese these days, which is unimaginable back then. When I first heard that China had no laws other than the constitution and the marriage law in 1980, I could not imagine the scope of things. Of course, it is bad in recent years, and it would be worse in the years ahead, but it will get better eventually. Like other countries, it will make it over the reactionary backlash today. Maybe it will take 20, 30, 40 years, who knows, but it will get better.
@@kevinw4267 from what i can gather from what you are saying, your understanding of mainland china and ccp are actually lacking. its too complicated to simply explain in the comment section but the key points are although individual citizen by themselves dont really have enough influence on the censorship and such, but film makers and publishing companies certainly will have. it ultimately comes down to social skill and negotiation skill as well as dont be edgy and touch on too much taboo, like excessive gore and sex. the current censorship's main goal is to suppressing controversy to maintain stability, and that means any controversy, good or bad. that also means audience's reaction will influence the strictness of censorship and how far film maker willing to push it.
as for death of subtitle groups, thats part of the push for enforcing copyright law by requests from foreign companies. in all seriousness they are in the right in this case, if you have a problem with that, its the fault of copyright. i was with the sub group that did both stargate and starwars the clone wars, every one of us knows we are helping piracy grow and many of us are more than willing to quit if official subs becomes a thing. it was the common knowledge at least within my group that we are doing sub and pirating these movies and tv shows not because ccp is censoring it but rather western entertainment companies back then dont see chinese market as profitable and dont bother with it at all. we sub because we are fan of the movie or the show we subing, so we are more than happy if they can make official chinese release and make money out of it without our group doing volunteer works that contribute to the reasons why they dont want to make official releases in the first place.
as for the 10% have passport thing, i have absolutely no idea how you got that number, but getting passport is easy and traveling to southeast asia country for vacation is very popular in recent years because the currency exchange rate made it so you can have a luxuries experience with very little money compare to traveling to country like US where you have to live on a tight budget and still cost you a fortune. let alone all the international students going out to study. if the number you provided is indeed real, my best guess is that people simply prefer to not travel out of the country because language barrier and budget. china is a big place, plenty of places to go without the need of a passport.
Eric is very much right in his assumption that the chinese entertainment industry will get better going forward. both the production side and the audience side are maturing, and this movie just open the flood gate for more mature war movies. because it would be used as a benchmark for how far you can push without problem from both the government and the audience.
@@nonameisbetter3298 yeah, I skimmed through your comment after you accused me lack of knowledge in the country I used to live in. So let me simplify my idea for you. Paraphrasing from one of my favorite show Silicon Valley, “punk rock band is pretty cool, but if you put “Christian” before it, it’s not cool anymore”. IMO, art can’t grow under strong censorship, if you are trying to debate me otherwise, enjoy your Christian Punk Rock Band, leave South Park and Dave Chapelle to the rest of us who don’t want to live under gunpoint.
I was a part of subgroup as well, my motive were simple, A. I love the show, B. It’s my way to rebel against CCP since they don’t allow the average citizen access to some TV show. The subgroup should have die down after the launch of Netflix, however, it’s not the case, the CCP doesn’t allow their citizens get access to Netflix with simplified Chinese subtitle. Again, if you don’t agree, try to defend the CCP, enjoy your Christian punk rock band.
It seems like you are type of the person who defend CCP, so one last thing to trigger you before I leave “光复香港 时代革命” （Liberate Hong Kong, the revolution of our times）
I haven't seen this movie but I've heard a lot about it, and I respect your opinion very much.
Seeing your name reminded me of the great late Art Bell. I miss this sweet gentle soul.
If survival is a part of the message, then i understand why it resonates.
Anyone who survives the nightmare is a hero, wether they survive a war , this pandemic, or anything horrific can be a hero.
This movie resonates with me because it's a tragedy. My great grandparents fought in the war against Japan and you know how they were rewarded? They were executed by the Communist Chinese that sat in the mountains the entire war and did almost nothing to help even though Japan largely left the northern border lightly defended. Their children were brainwashed by the communist party after the war to believe that Japan had killed their parents and that they should continue to hold hatred for Japan rather than them.
@@中华民国万岁-c4g Never hate your own blood. be it the communist but never do it, it never ends well if you hate your own.
@@conveniencestorebanana9648 when your people becomes genocidal brainwashed maniacs, come back to me.
@@中华民国万岁-c4g Person behind this account is a political extremist
@@conveniencestorebanana9648 good fun man. Its hanjian like you who call the jews extremists for speaking about the Halocaust and against the nazi government. Good fun wumao.
Free the Uyghurs
Free Tibet.
Liberate China 🇹🇼
Liberate Nanjing.
Zhong Hua Minguo!
The Sihang warehouse is preserved as a Museum, next time you're in Shanghai, go have a look.
Can you do an essay or analysis on the longest day in Chang'an? that show is fucking gorgeous and covers such an amazing period in Chinese history.
Oooooo I Second this
The best C-drama in a very long time. I'd want him to do multiparter tbh.
Oh yes yes yes
YESS I've been saying this
@@Dragons_Armory YOoooo didnt expect to see you here!!! I love your blog so much
Honestly this was the film I thought Fury was going to be, especially in terms of the cruelty and unfairness of war and how the people who end up fighting them aren't poster children whether by choice or the environment they have to now survive....up until the last holdout scene where Brad Pitt eats a fucking panzerfaust and can still man an M2 and our MC survives cuz he meets a super friendly German soldier who was part of the group trying their hardest to completely murder him and his friends just a moment ago.
Honestly it's hard to describe the 800 because it seems to be so different from the usual war film we've all come to be familiar with especially American audiences but you did a great job pointing out these key points that make it different. The big thing that stuck out to me was the big retreat at the end, and I know that is something that will not play well to American audiences, who are big believers in having a last stand even if each and every single person dies, under the assumption that a last stand is neccesary and will play some key role in the larger scheme of things. Imo that was the biggest deglorification of war, alongside the anonymous narrative and seemingly important characters eating a bullet and staying dead. Most people who are war hungry and want to enlist after watching prior films always think they are the MC and that they individually will play some pivotal role and each of those things just attacks their ego.
There a way to get an even deeper analysis of this film?
Your last part reminded me of those 3 school boys who crossed over because they wanted to be a part of the fight. Then during their first taste of battle they realize they were way in over the heads and get killed because of it.
I will say that your interpretation of American audiences always wanting a last stand or “oooorahhh” moment is a fair assessment but I’d make that argument that maybe the new generation of movie goers will be more accepting of an ending that isn’t a “glorious death”
@@SMERSH_BERSH im not so sure. We said the same things many times before, but each new generation can be duped into a conflict they later regret. The thing is when you are like those school age kids, you think you are invincible and also that you got something to prove and often times military service seems appealing to accomplish that.
I also recommend "Assembly", "Devils on the Doorstep", and "Purple Sunset". They are really good Chinese war movies from the perspective of the average peasant or soldier.
Fury's final act was absolutely terrible. It went against the entire tone of the movie. What was a story set during the closing days of the war about fighting a all but defeated enemy who was derived of manpower and equipment becomes an absurd story about an entire full strength SS battalion rushing one American tank because...I don't know. One of the least effective tonal shifts I've seen in a movie.
@@redsgrave2003 Yup, I'm pretty sure studio interference was why that whole sequence got put in because they didn't want to take the risk of having a truly depressing ending that they'd just die, and another tank crew or infantry would drive by unknowing of who they were, and just see them as bodies.
The craftmanship in this film is utterly impressive and puts many american contemporaries to shame imo
They just need to work on the color grading and it will be perfect.
@@akwasiasiamah7542 I think it sets the mood quite well, but it’s just a tiny bit too faded.
Agreed but they got the filming 10/10. Beautiful use of long takes
I really liked how they portrayed that war is cruel, it’s good and realistic storytelling to show characters easily dying because that is the reality of it
Just watched it. One of the finest war movies ever made. It rivals on terms of quality and production values with every Hollywood effort. Respect from Pakistan
This is based on a true story, incredible bravery, I didn’t know what the movie was called at first until now, really good movie.
@@Amoore-vv9wx Bruh, my name has Pinyin not Kanji
@@W11-o2y Sakura is pinyin? Excuse me?
@@liu3gz Wake up and look at the Chinese at the beginning of my name
@@W11-o2y LOL ONLY BRAINWASHED COMMIE CHINESE USING PINYIN
@@juanlu3958 …
Thank you for always taking the time to put captions/subtitles
The scene with the soldiers jumping out of the building to bomb the japanese soldiers, may seem unrealistic but history is often times more insane than fantasy. This event actually happened and the director depicted the scene as close as possible to how it was recorded.
that's such a badass scene! Do you have the source describing that it actually happened in real life? I been searching all over but couldn't find it.
@@alexren2434
Because in history there’s only one soldier who jumped, not multiple.
His name was Chen Shu Sheng.
But hey! It’s a movie not a documentary, doesn’t have to be historically accurate.
@@alexren2434in the Chinese museum of Sihang warehouse nowadays there is a reproduction of this scene
Couldn’t they have just like, thrown the bombs out? Or did they want to heroic sacrifice bc they were surrounded? Because I don’t think having a person falling with the bombs will help control it at all like a kamikaze 🤔
Just watched it and I admire the sacrifice but the same thing could have been achieved by tying it to sacks of potatoes, less epic though I guess
This film was powerful. I wish my memory was wiped so I could experience it for the first time again.
It was released on Malaysia in a middle of pandemic before cinema was shut down, I randomly bumped into this film's poster on Facebook and immediately asked my friends (who loves ww2 films) to watch together. It was the first China film I've ever watched in theater with low expectations since China films were alright.
There were only less than 20 people in that hall including me & my friends as almost no one knew about this film's existence here.
But boy, little did I know the movie's cinematography and anxiety-inducing sound effects of this movie on the start of the film instantly made me think "This is the only China film where it finally surpasses Hollywood standard".
I don't remember crying this much from watching a war film and this film has the least amount of forced propaganda for a China film but still can't avoid the fact that almost every China war films will always have a person mention how hard their country being looked down and their future generations will finally be able to break that cycle haha
As you mentioned in your video, this movie is spread via the mouths of audiences only it became successful. Many of my friends were skeptical about this film until they all watched this film themselves too.
I'm glad you wrote Video Essay for this film as I knew you will eventually as one of the most realistic potrayal of war in movie industry :3
Aaaaaaaaand now this movie is suddenly at the very top of my to-watch list. Thank you for this!
Ever since I watched Dunkirk, I imagined what a Chinese version would look like, with different points of view that expand upon the formula that Dunkirk has of the Mole, air and land, with a patriot, civilian, foreigner, soldier, and the enemy. Although it's not the same idea, I am so glad people put the effort to portray this part of history in film a reality. Your review was really impactful it got me crying at moments on how no matter how many people try to humanize war through laws and propaganda, war itself is immoral. I think it's also important that, although after Dunkirk, people praised the soldiers for their bravery in their escape, the Chinese soldiers who escaped the many battles during the war had to pay in their portrayal by international media as cowards, despite the fact none of those journalists have any idea the hell they went through to decide that a dead man means nothing to a cause if there are so few of them left.
I'm glad I was able to find this movie through you, the movie was amazing. It's great that people like you share and spread movie masterpieces like these. I would not have been able to find this movie without you.
polar opposite to wolf warrior, im glad Chinese history can finally get some representation in a good film without it being made to inflate nationalism
I wish more nations would do this.
wolf warrior by itself is not a bad action movie, let's not be mistaken about that. it is that it promotes nationalism when geopolitical tension is high between the west and the east that makes moderate people uncomfortable, also it is because it became so successful in the box office that hating on it became kinda trendy and hip.
@@Xind0898 it made success because it's like so bad people go and watch it. Still a very bad movie from top to bottom. Even worse than 80's and 90's blatant us nationalism in Hollywood
@@tryomama so to be successful, you need to be so bad right?
war films in general really. even dunkirk still focuses on heroism
When this movie was aired in China, it brought up comparison between it and My Chief and My Regiment, a Chinese war drama filmed in 2008 with a current score of 9.8 on bilibili and 9.5 on douban. It's often called the pinnacle of this genre. I highly suggest you folks to check it out. It's about the Chinese expeditionary force that was sent Myanmar to protect the only ground supply route that connected China to the outside world during WWII. It was made from some of the big name actors that are present in 800 before they were famous such as Zhang Yi, Li Cheng. Duan Yi Hong, who's the current best actor in Chinese cinema, was also in this drama. Everything that 800 lacks such as proper character development, in-depth moral questioning, technical weapon handling and etc, this drama has it. It's a classic now.
Thanks!! Gonna check it out~
In the ending, when the final row of soldiers get ready to cross the bridge, when they stand up row by row with the single drum beat going on one by one gave me goosebumps.
tbh that scene cringed me out a bit.
just seeing this one and thinking back how every single war, this is usually the hard reality of ppl who got enlisted fighting a war someone else started.
I was just watching this movie today and my favorite channel ever ( you) made a vid on it, happy day
I’m a Taiwanese, and I loved this movie
Great video as usual!!
This movie went so viral when it was pulled from the Shanghai Film Festival (it was the opener) in the last minute, a lot of my friends worked on that film.
Of course, everybody was curious to watch it, it's natural, something get banned, you just got curious and want watch it!
i did watch it in IMAX, sometimes you can some cropping here and there to avoid the Close up of the flag, but nothing that can denaturalize the film.
and agree with everything you said, good job!
The dude jumping out of the building with grenades is actually true albeit most likely in small numbers
It was just one person in real life but nevertheless, it was a good scene
@@scrasms7987 that's such a badass scene! Do you have the source describing that it actually happened in real life? I been searching all over but couldn't find it.
@@alexren2434 Lol the Wikipedia article for Sihang Warehouse. You can read further into it by looking at the footnotes linked in the article.
@@scrasms7987 Thanks!
This video brought me to tears. Great job as always, I always look forward to your analysis.
YESS!
As one of the people who have been requesting this video for a long time, i want to say thank you for making this
*"SPOILERS AHEAD"*
_I shall return_
Lol same
Wrong battles
SPOILER !
Japan gets nuked
The music you used in this review is something else,like there isn't any corners cut in your videos everything is 💯
This was another beautiful video essay.
Thank you for all your great work. :)
Oh my, I've been waiting so long for you to do a video on this movie. Excellent work.
There is a mature progression of movies like this compared to~ say
The jingoist campy cringe garbage that is "Wolf Warrior"
I actually found the Eight Hundred to be quite moving, if anything it serves as a good tangential learning tool for me to dig deeper into the historic background
I'm glad I could build a lot of bridges with friends in Taiwan because of our mutual appreciation of this movie.
All films have their artistic raison d'être. Some artworks you may find too cringy, or obscene still have their audience, and that's taste. Otherwise we'd all have the dictate of the single mainstream opinion.
Even Operation Red Sea is better than Wolf Warrior.
@@nickyliu8762 My own interpretation of Wolf Warrior's purpose is to tell a story of the resurrected might of China following the Century of Humiliation and to provide a counter to seemingly omnipresent narrative (at least coming from outside) of the US and sometimes Europe being the bastions of peace and salvation worldwide. And honestly, that's not a bad story to tell.
Where I think Wolf Warrior 2 (because that's the one I watched) becomes cringy is twofold: its unapologetic pro-Chinese and implicit anti-American perspective that it uses to tell this story, which basically simplifies China into a global defender of the innocent, helpless, and all that against the forces of greed, lawlessness, and brutality, while simplifying the US into a paper tiger that is more interested in saving its own ass than stepping up as a force for order. That's not a necessary thing to tell a story of China's resurrection as a global superpower, and basically panders to nationalist sentiment. In that it's my opinion that Wolf Warrior (2) appeals to bad taste. The second reason is that the film tells this story by equating China's might with its military strength and implicitly, the state, which I feel is an oversimplification. Technological advancement, diplomatic ability, economic influence, etc., are all indicators of Chinese strength, but most of these are ignored or handwaved in favor of flashy boom and beating up the evil Westerner. Again, I feel it panders to nationalist, but now also militant, sentiment, which I feel again is bad taste.
Sorry for the long post.
@@ReviveHF Operation Red Sea has it's moments but the ending is so bad. It literally promotes colonialism. That is such a horrible message to show to an audience.
To me it feels like Wolf Warrior and Red Sea are China's way of saying "we can make shitty propaganda too" to Hollywood. But alas, there are bad movies from every country. I just hope Chinese people stop buying tickets to such movies and show support for the likes of 800.
@@andro7862 how does Operation Red Sea's ending promote colonialism???
Oh my god I just watched it and this popped up on my recommendations. I've basically been binging videos of yours and I'm a big fan. I wasn't aware because I recognized the movie by its Chinese name which didn't happen to be in the title but OMG THIS MOVIE IS SO GOOD EVERYONE SHOULD WATCH IT
It looks good, but I don't know if i can handle it. I got choked up just from this review.
I'm glad I get to see some really amazing and moving films because of this channel.
The camera did not focused on the RoC's flag is likely because this is a story about ordinary people, not geopolitical stuff. Focusing on the people who hold the flag, rather than the flag itself, gives me a greater shock.
That is a good interpretation.
In the same scene, the flags of Britain, America, etc even in the background is much more clearer than the Blue Sky, White Sun flag. Let’s remember that this film was originally suppose to be released a year before it was pulled for “over-glorifying” Kuomintang troops. Yes the film indeed wants to focus on the ordinary soldiers/folks but let’s not sugar-coat the censorship.
@@rayray6490 honestly, if Chinese censorship is like this from now on, I'd take it.
@@AccentedCinema 很乐观吧 哈哈哈哈
@@rayray6490 In that scene though, I think that's the point. Ultimately the sacrifices of the soldiers are a political move to attract attention, and so it's important that the symbols of the outside world are clearly visible hanging in the background.
A lot of crying happened when watching this film.
Fun fact: Modern China war films such as Wolf Warriors are always full of heroism and nationalism. But the director of this film is called Guan Hu. He is full of controversy in China and always goes against the mainstream ideology promoted by the party media. The Eight Hundred was originally scheduled to be released in 2019, but because the movie was full of ROC flags and scenes that satirized China's National Socialism, the authorities removed it for so-called "technical reasons" ,until lot of shots of the ROC flag and shots that satirize nationalism were deleted.
Seriously. Well shit, that sucks.
if you see the whole movie，you will find that you are wrong！
@@yin3331 If I haven't watched this movie(twice), and didn't search for the story behind it, and didn't chat with my Chinese movie enthusiast friend, why would I leave this comment?
管虎去见了孙元良的后代秦汉，这就是这部片推迟的最大的原因。Guan Hu went to see Sun Yuanliang's descendant Qin Han, which was the biggest reason for the film's delay.
Watched the movie, the flag scenes are still in there
Thank you for the perspective, AC.
Could you do a video essay on Zhang Yimou's "Huozhe (To Live)", Derek Tsang's "Shao Nian de Ni (Better Days)", and Gu Xiaogang's "Dwelling in the Fuchun Mountains"?
Not to cast any kind of shade on the other two, but Better Days was absolutely incredible. Watched it a few weeks ago. Just brilliant in every aspect.
What I like about this movie is that although there are certain things that are romanticized, it's still feels real. Also, the impersonal presentation is important = war is not about a single hero, it's about the collective struggles of many
Possibly my favorite Mainland Chinese film. Sure its a bit exaggerated in some scenes, but I can tell the historical research was extensive for this movie, which is great.
I haven't seen this, I'll seek it out now, thank you for bringing it to my attention!
I've been revisiting Chinese cinema since I've been watching your channel. I grew up on the 80s and 90s movies but stopped by the early 2000s simply because many movies are simply not good. Thank you for these videos!
I don't think I can watch this movie.
The flag falling scene alone, makes me burst into tears.
As an oversea Chinese hearing how our grandparents were treated by the Japanese, I cried multiple times to this, feeling their sacrfice runs through our blood because without them, there wouldn't them.
These men had no descendant today, but every one of them live in us now.
I found out how my great-grandparents really died just recently. They fought for the entirety of WW2 against Japan defending China and were executed by the Chinese Communist Party after the war. My grandparents were brainwashed into believing their parents had died in WW2 on Japan's hands for decades. They were but children but were sent into a reeducation camp. Mao thanked Japan after WW2 for invading china in 1937.
@@中华民国万岁-c4g Mao pretty much destroyed China with the Cultural Revolution and The great Leap Forward. A lot people died of hunger and others got killed because they were the intellectuals in the society, that is why there is the so called "lost generation in China", others died during the Tian An Men event in 1989. The true father of China is Dr. Sun Yat Sen, who wanted a democracy. The Ccp is a party not fit to rule the chinese people.
@@hubertsang7418 I know that already but thanks.
@@中华民国万岁-c4g i am from overseas too, in my childhood, the chinese embassy in my country sported the red and blue flag with the white sun, until it was replaced by the red flag of the PRC using its checkbook diplomacy. The ccp might end up destroying the world because of their predatory ships overfishing in every part of the world illegally. The ccp will destroy the environment.
@@中华民国万岁-c4g I’m older so it’s my grand father (from poor family) that fought well (artillery I heard) in Shanghai and survived. Eventually rose high enough to make it to be at the China Embassy in France during at least part of the China civil war. I heard after KMT defeat the CCP of course replaced the embassy with their own people but sweet talked almost all of the people working there to come back to China where they will get new government positions (of course it was a lie and most and their families then suffered greatly), of course most went to join the CCP China also since the KMT in Taiwan seemed like a lost cause. My Grandfather though had loyalty to the KMT and knew many of the leaders so luckily went to Taiwan along with his family. I have very limited info since I was born and grew up in the USA.
I’m so excited! Thank you for yet another great video ^-^
A great video with valuable reflections! It'd be really interesting to see your take on City of Life and Death (2009), maybe even compared to Eight Hundred. I started watching it but couldn't finish it because it was just too much, though I do intend to come back to it at some point.
Oh that scene of them jumping to their deaths left me shocked and speechless.
Thank you for yet another fascinating video. By a strange coincidence I've recently been researching the Chinese actress/writer/director and animator, Chen Bo'er, who starred in the original '800 Heroes' (Ba bai zhuang shi) made in 1938. She was a remarkable woman who sadly died at the age of 41, from a late diagnosed cancer. She once worked with the legendary Japanese stop motion animator, Tadahito Mochinaga, on China's first stop motion film, 'The Emporer's Dream.' Anyway, thanks for your recommendation for 'The Eight Hundred,' I'll definintely watch it.
Thanks for another upload. Definitly on my top 10 favorit creators out there. Good mix between a review and often somewhat philosophical topics and the likea
This was a fantastic film, watching the suicidal grenade scene where soldiers jumped into the crowd of Japanese soldiers definitely was something that was sad and traumatic, knowing that lots of these soldiers were like you and me, yet still making the decision to sacrifice themselves for the good of their comrades. I like to think of it as each falling soldier passing a torch to the next, trying to continue their overall goal.
I have not watched the film but you movie essay got me crying
The slow-mo action do feel unecessary.
This movie looks amazing, I'll definitely check it out so thank you for such a great video essay :D
Realistic Chinese war movies are the only movies that can bring tears to my eyes, it’s so painful that the sacrifices of our people are never taught in foreign countries
By far one of the best war movies I’ve seen.
I loved your conclusion! Everything was very well established, you’re a really skilled essay writer! Might I ask if you studied something like this to become so good?
I found a picture of an asian army wearing a German helmet, did some research about the 88th Division, and Bam! Suddenly a chinese film about them is filmed.
On my research, I concluded that the story of them wont be filmed because of their KMT background, but they did. I'm very impressed, they are doing it while COVID-19 is going on.
[Spoilers for Fury] Remember that scene in Fury when Norman was hiding under the tank near the end of the movie, and a Nazi found him underneath and didn't rat him out? That hit hard.
Wow your movie explanation is really good and has an objective opinion, will keep on supporting this channel, keeps the good work coming.
Your essay is so perfectly made. I personally am not very fond of war movies. They are much harder to watch compared to any other genre. I didn't know the movie existed and even if I did, I know I won't watch it- because of the effect it will have on me! You can try watching the Korean movie - Swing Kids. I watched it by mistake and well, it has a similar feel.
I can't stop revisiting this video and movie.
Another fact by this movie is the reason they are wearing German Uniforms is because they were trained by German Army personnel during the international occupation
5:55 I agree. I mean a story with a single character makes them like some sort of super-human with plot armor. They like get everything while the poor guys die easily.
the spectator aspect of this battle was really the most disturbing aspect of it when I the film, the British and other Western press covering it was one thing but all the blimps and balconies had people just watching the Chinese company getting slaughtered.
Wow, bit pissed I missed this gem last year. Compared the other garbage, this actually looks worth my time. Thanks for covering it.
"300,00 soldiers were killed out there! Now you are telling me they are all flesh and blood. They have families?" - Bruh that actually hit hard. The further you are from the battlefield, the more reality is replaced by bureaucracy 😔
The politician was right too.the ideal heros glory means nothing to the common soldier.
Fuck man, the scene of the soldiers shouting their names as they plunged to their deaths broke me. I just started crying outta nowhere while trying to wash the dishes
I celebrate this being the first non Hollywood film being the highest grossing film of the year I hope this shakes the film industry to take more risks
Spartans: We have 300.
Chinese: That's cute.
Search "City of Life and Death" if you want another Chinese made Sino japanese war master piece similar to this.
One thing I like to add about this movie in terms of realistic expectations is that none of the military characters killed an excessive number of enemy soldiers like typical action movies which is pretty refreshing. Other than one scene that involve explosives. But there are other scenes that are rather unrealistic like the chairman running a contest to have men going one by one to run a phone line across the bridge only to be picked off one by one by a Japanese sniper (rather than say sending a bunch of them at a time to retrieve the phone line)
ah a fresh and new video~
Thank you. I just finished watching it. I thought it was fantastic. Going in my list of best war movies.
Finally, China stops following Americanisms in their war epics. I hope the "Wolf Warrior" (2017) is really the last of them, and no more political historical fantasy like "Railroad Tigers" (2016) or obvious propaganda like "1911" (2011). Really impressed to be able to see such mature theme coming from Mainland China in 2021.
I mean people has been dubbing "Saving Private Ryan" (1998) an anti-war movie, yet it jump started many successful World War 2-themed films and series (e.g. Band of Brothers, The Thin Red Line, Wind Talkers, Pearl Harbor, and so on), and many successful video games (e.g. Medal of Honor and the first Call of Duty series). Its gory Omaha beach depiction pales when compared to the glorification and portrayal World War 2 fights as "cool" action flick. I don't know, but mangled soldier holding their guts while caling their mother or another one looking for their missing arm, feels like a minor part of the movie, when we have Tom Hanks wiping off every German outposts along the way to Ramelle-Neuville while looking cool, or when Pvt Jackson duelled the German sniper and shot him through the scope. Then we have "Full Metal Jacket" (1987), also often dubbed as such anti-war, but seriously, this only inspires a lot of drill sergeant wannabes for typical high school hazing orientation rituals out here at least in Indonesia. It does a really pathetic job at scaring people from going to war or signing up to go to war in another country, but it is so cool that I became an instant fan of Ronald Lee Ermey at that time.
I suggest people look to Europe if they want real anti-war films. The Russian epic "Come and See" (1985) is made as a horrific thriller, the Finnish "The Unknown Soldier" (2017) and its gritty and desperate atmosphere feels totally different from American military glorification, since it kind of questions Finland's alliance with Nazi Germany. The experience of most people, having to desperately murder another human being in their own backyard, having their own house destroyed, their cities bombed to ruins, or family member murdered is all too real for every world war 2 participants, except for people across the Ocean, whose "homefront" is relatively untouched.
The problem with many American war movies is that, they have main characters, and they are heroes. In Fury, Brad Pitt got all the best stuff in war: his Easy Eight Sherman tank, the unconditional love of random German woman, and the German StG-44 gun as sidearms. In real anti-war movies, the main characters are usually helpless victims. The "Come and See" doesn't exactly celebrate the retaliatory murder of German soldiers with telegraphic glorifying music or anything justifying the war crime, rather the same mundane emptiness, kind of like humans doing senseless killing of another human being. Contrast that with the "cool" montage in Saving Private Ryan, where Pvt Jackson's did all that arse-kicking sniper action (despite being killed in the end). Yes, I get it, these American war movies are often made to sell movie tickets and break box office records, and that's why I think, war movies are better sponsored by neutral and non-profit oriented organisations.
The best war films are usually made by the loosers. They have to endure defeat and the narrative thus changes. It is less about jingoistic protagonist fights on the battlefield for this country and more about a protagonist who is forced into an unwinnable situation. Just comparing the usually bad german movie industry to american WW2 movies proves that.
@@Weltenbastler2000 Das boot, generation war, and Stalingrad (1993) are some of the best war movies made by the Germans. And they lose 2 world wars
Eyy +62
Hear! Hear!
And pardon, are you the lad on Quora?
@@lunaticmelon2691 Yep, same different me.
You did a great job! Nicely done!
Note: This is one of the few movies/shows where the Nationalist army are not shown as the bad guys
pretty much all the shows involve fightings Japanese, Nationalist army are not bad guys.(they will probably be shown as weak and incapable compare to japanese army)
@@临高 well in Chinese mainland ww2 series they will be shown as allies who eventually backstab the Communist army . I watch some of these series so that s what I can tell for my experience
@@versnagt1995I imagine u r probably right, I never finish watching anyone myself(gotta admit most of em are pretty bad, except 亮剑)
@@versnagt1995 Because of the fact that the two sides could not reach an agreement on how to manage the country together, the civil war was restarted.
And so far, the two sides have not signed a peace treaty, so you can assume that Taiwan and the mainland are still in an unfinished civil war. You heard that right. Even in 2020, it is still not over yet.
So technically, we are still at war, but the two sides have not fired a bullet for decades.
@@frankwu3466 I believe Taiwan plans to reunify under the PRC
I love this video! Inspired me to check out the film which I hadn't previously heard about. I appreciate your stance on overblown "glory in war" spotlights and agree that sometimes war has to be observed from an objective standpoint so that heroism is brought to a human level instead of an abstract GOOD v EVIL spin.
cant agree more on the point that the film doesnt glorify war, it lays bare all its brutality and how fragile individuals have to abandon all hope in order to survive it. but to say this film is only about exposing the sufferings of war is borderlining on historical nihilism, when the desperate soldiers straped bombs onto their bodies to stop the wall breach, they didnt do it out of political fervor or any indoctrination or brainwashing, they apologized to their parents in distant hometowns for not being able to fulfill their filial duties, they yell out their names so their souls may be remembered and return home. the witnesses acrossed the river were not just horrified, they were profoundly moved by their ultimate sacrifice, they were inspired by their fearlessness in the face of death, and solemnly emboldened by their courage to fight the japaness invaders. it is interesting how the director breifly dipicted the foreign observers in the same shot, in contrast to the different impact it has to the chinese ppl. i guess u have to be chinese to understand the national psychy in that particular time and space. there is glory in war when you are laying down your life for your homeland and loved ones even when your human instincts tell u to do otherwise.
Absolutely, this wasn't WW1 winter armistice hippie shit. The Japanese were convinced of the inferiority of the Chinese, Vietnamese, Koreans, etc. It was a war of self-defense because the Japanese were never going to allow them to live if they surrendered anyways because of their DNA, not their allegiance to X or Y.
By far this movie is my top 3 best war movies
One aspect you forgot (and for a good reason, because people will criticize you for it) is the acknowledgement of the kuo ming tang in this war. Taiwan's flag can be seen in this movie during the assault and they even mention chiang kai shek giving orders to retreat.
In the ending, the local chinese citizens finally break their apathy, having lived prosperous and happy behind the international lines as if the war never existed. Having witness many deaths and violent fights, it finally changed their vision. They are shocked, traumatized and want to support the troops going back to their home, while being sniped by japanese soldiers (who are breaking the non-agression pact during the chinese soldiers retreat). The last scene is a soldier's hand reaching for a citizen hand as a symbol for a reunion. Like asking chinese and taiwanese to reconcile together, having fought the same battle before being divided by politics.
I think it's very important because this movie is a metaphor of China's history : being united we will be stronger, divided, we will become weaker. People tend to forget as an example that kuo ming tang was chinese before battling against mao.
OH YEAH. I knew you would make a video on this~!
As an asian who's country was also invaded by the japanese, I was really moved by this story. But the over dramatic ending kinda killed the movie for me. But still I'm thankful that it brought the tragic story of this 400 brave souls to my attention.
800*
For the fallen.
I can watch this over and over again ....
The Eight hundred's story after the battle is more pathetic than the battle itself.
During the combat, about 30 soldiers sacrificed and they killed about 200 enemies. However, their sacrifice didn't achieve the goal of "make western countries intervene in the war". After they retreated to the British settlement, they were disarmed and house arrested by British in Shanghai until Shanghai finally fell to the Japanese after the attack on Pearl Harbor. Then these heroes were tortured, abused, and forced to do heavy labor in the prisoner-of-war camp on the Pacific. When it came to 1945, WW2 finally ended, but only about 100 soldiers survived.
Chills. Beautiful analysis.
I Love Chinese Oriental Movies, Happy Chinese New Year 😍😍😍 Gong Xi Fa Cai! 🎈🎆🎇🎉🎊🎈 我也祝您春节快乐，并希望您今年过得愉快。从此以后快乐地生活着 🙌🙌🙌
It pains me so much that I can't see movies such as these since we have slow internet and don't have the budget to buy subscriptions for online streaming sites. Thankyou for sharing I will definitely find a way to watch this one.