Just a note about Jafar and his eyeliner: while yes Disney probably meant it as something else, it's actually quite common for some middle eastern men to wear eyeliner as a cultural thing.
Yea as someone from the middle east its very traditional for people of all the genders to wear it, people from my country call it "kajal" I used to wear it alot as kid
I used it all the time for baseball and football. But you know, ask a pro baseball player and theyll tell you baseball is the most casually gay sport around. Bell bottom spandex pants, baseball bats, balls, and everyone matches right down to the shoes. Super gay and fun to play. Nowadays when i go out as my real self i tend to go back to those looks for inspiration. To a lot of people im obviously... different but also clearly stereotypically manly enough to not be bothered. Its a weird balance but it works. But now im wondering if some of that reaction isnt some post 9/11 fear bs. Curious. I just thought i was scary lol
Make up has been worn by men in many different cultures and during many different times. But Jafar's 'eyeliner' is a character design choice to make his eyes look more deep set and expressive. In general Jafar has a very 'cartoonish' character model. The face is drawn to get maximum expression for those villainous monologues. Jasmin is 'wearing' kajol as well so it would be an indicator of social class for both characters. The Sultan doesn't have the same design element as he's meant to be a comical somewhat inept character.
"You're so undignified you're showing your colours" "I am beautiful! I have a _right_ to show my colour!" I dont think I've ever heard a metaphor get so beautifully ignored. What a stunning moment, what a stunning response.
On top of that metaphor about skin colour, it's even more ironic that it's at a drag event, one of the most literally colourful places around. Even at a place like that, if you 'didn't show your colours' in an acceptable manner, you'd be the bad guy.
The statement made to Crystal is "You're showing your color" insinuating that she was showing her "Blackness" by being overly emotional and temperamental because Black people have no decorum or self control. That's why Crystal was told "Now is not the time to show temperament' when she storms off stage. The person that said that was insulting her race That's why Crystal tells them that she has a right to show her color, not her colors or what you may perceive as them meaning her "true colors". That's not what was being insinuated at all. They were telling her now isn't the time to "act Black"..
@@covertLLC Saying someone is 'showing their true colours' does not imply any specific colour in normal usage. It's not generally used as a racist phrase.
@@donovanlocust1106 "Gay stereotype" as the guy said in the video, and Who know they could be. As you heard in the video is was illegal so even if they were Disney could not said they were.
Another note regarding Prince John regarding his gay coding, they gave him one big feminine trait (or more accurately omitted one major trait) When King Richard shows up, you see that he's a lion with a big full mane, but Prince John isn't given one, making him have physical traits like a lioness.
The reason why i like more the villain than the hero is about the expressivness. The hero make always the good thing without mistakes and if they do a mistake, they do not turn mad like most of the evils do. In that way the villains are more "human"
My money is on the Cheshire Cat. What with all that sassy ass swaying and tail flicking, disappearing and reappearing in different swishy poses each time, the elegant pairing of pale pink and pale purple, the seductive tinny echo of Sterling Holloway's voice, and the whitest teeth you've ever damn seen. Dude looks like he was pulled right out of Paris is Burning.
This is neat because I see a lot of talk about queer coding in reference to gay men, but not so much about lesbian women. It’s interesting to see the slight difference in their presentation
Yeap I see putting Men in " effeminate" roles was used to show kind of corruption.too, Female villains were many times more like divas than butch or something, it is a interesting point.
Yeah, there's a video somewhere about Cruella and ut's funny how they made her seem horrible (puppy coat, like, wow) but everything else was relatable. Nice try, but we love her anyway.
As someone who is gay himself, I feel like this was a really beautiful way to show why I personally love Disney villains, especially Ursula and Scar. They’re fun, they’re over-the-top, they aren’t afraid of people not liking them because people already don’t like them, they’re the outcast, they want the world that shunned them to help them for a change. I never truly knew why I loved the villains more, but not I understand part of my psyche better. Fantastic video and thanks for the realization.
@@ReinersBlauerHoden Is he? I’ve never made that connection and I can’t find anything supporting this claim. Not to discredit or disregard personal experience if you feel this way, but why do you say this?
When I was little I worshipped the Disney female villains. I glorified the Evil Queen, Cruella and Maleficent as if they were my prophets. I would watch their movies non stop, print pictures of them and tape them all around my room and walk around the house wearing a blanket which I would use as either a cape or fur coat.
I definitely felt sympathy for Scar when it comes to how his family treated him. And I don't even have a bad family life, I just feel for people and characters who do! When Zazu says the stuff about making him into a rug I'm like "If Zazu wasn't framed as the comic relief, that's a goddamn villain line", so I always thought it was a bit too harsh.
Also it's a little bit unsettling that Scar's plan was to include a group of people pushed to the margins into society and the movie shows unequivocally that he was wrong and the status quo was the only way to survive
@@xenosauridae Yeah, he might have given hyenas power for his own selfish reasons, but that doesn't make Mufasa and co. look great since the hyenas are shown like an oppressed people and not like an equivalently-powerful enemy. I know that Scar's big problem near the end is not wanting to move to better hunting grounds but the drought also wasn't his fault, and saying that the hyenas over-hunted SO MUCH would be pretty ridiculous. He definitely still was a bad guy, but the movie seems to be aggressively pushing us into thinking he's WORSE.
There's definitely some divine rulership themes. The drought IS his fault, because he was not the rightful king. But ya, when your movie says the mistreated outcast, who uses his kingship to uplift a marginalized population, literally upsets the natural order so much that it causes a drought....I have questions. And Simba, a confused slacker kid who has no idea what real rulership means, brings the rain, just because of birthright. There's some messaging issues in that movie. I still love it for great animation and memorable music and characters. But there's a lot to unpack, and it's pretty close to the surface.
Also it was revealed in the novelization that Scar's birth name was Taka, the Swahili word for trash. His family named him garbage while his brother was named king, of course he was messed up.
Gay people: *exist in media* Will H. Hays: Let's make gay people the villains so people think being gay is bad! Gay people: *love gay villains and embrace them, making them more popular than the heroes* Will H. Hays: You weren't supposed to do that.
Oooh -also: Gays: We're coming out of the closet Straights: let's tar them with a disparaging name to keep them in the closet Gays: love the name queers, embrace it Straights: You weren't supposed to do that.
A thought on camp villians- think of Gaston from beauty and the beast. He is so so so masculine that it is literally laughable. Many of the things he says or does are literally meant for a laugh to the audience. He is also really bombastic and over the top with his manliness. It almost cone across like a drag performance. Like you could totally see a woman dressing up Like a man and "playing" Gaston, the over the top man. Also he is so masculine he almost comes across as gay anyway. He is still portrayed as being vain and concerned about gis appearance, clearly works out a lot and spends long amounts of time with nothing but men either in the military or out hunting. He is also like all the other villains very theatrical and musical theater-ish. He also loves interior decorating. I mean he uses antlers but still. He almost comes across like a deeply closeted gay man who has sex with his friend/admirer/ sidekick but no homo bc Gaston is always Top
Gaston reminds me of the episode of Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt when Mikey is coming out to his extremely Italian Catholic family and his father breaks the tension by pointing to his brother who is so very obviously "straight" due to his athletic body, curious amount of time spent at the gym, and need to insert the word boobs into every conversation 🤣
I love Scar cause I was also the one who grew up in lesser favor to siblings. His sarcasm is so dark and I really feel that. He's so elegantly evil and I'm always here for it. Plus he managed to get his point across like not many others had the chance to.
One time, I was watching Josh Scorcher's Top 10 Villain Songs and I ended up having a dream where he made a list of Top 10 Deleted or Cut Villain Songs. Let's just say the number one deleted or cut song was Ahadi's song. For those who don't know, Ahadi was the father of Mufasa and Taka (or Scar), and let's just say there's a good reason why the song was cut/deleted. Apparently, Taka grew close to a Hyena cub named "Zuberi", and Ahadi physically, emotionally, and mentally abused him because he'd "rather have a king for a son than a fruit for a harvest". Josh mentioned that he's heard the song via the "Wayback website" and the reason why he refuses to even play or show the lyrics was because it made the picketers from the Westboro Baptist Church look like the cast of My Little Pony Friendship is Magic and Steven Universe by comparison...
I'm so glad hbomberguy did this shoutput. I already knew alot of queer creators i'm suprised i didn't know matt baume yet! So far this video is really really cool, i'm looking Forward to seeing more!
@lolno6465 me too! I'm surprised by how many I did/didn't know. I'm working my way through hbomb's playlist to see some new people and some old favourites 😅
@Lala Mi his dead name was Scarlett and he wanted to keep some resemblance of that. So it started off as a gender neutral nickname and then he got it legally changed.
He had a son in the prequels soooo....not everything is and has to be gay. Americans look at childrens movie characters in a way that is so weird now. Creepy.
I never liked Disney heroes/princesses much at all, and I think you've finally helped me understand why. They're usually there to uphold or return the monarchy to its status quo, and that's not something I find very relatable. Ursula and Maleficent are my faves. In addition to all you said, I think there's something especially charming about the villains who are also creatures - in some way less conventionally human than the protagonist. Ursula, being half octopus(?) and Maleficent being a dragon. It's relatable.
I do like Ariel and Elsa, tho, because they buck the status quo and make the world their own at the end. They're the heroes because they stop hiding who they are and own their power. ♥
@@m0L3ify Ah, I haven't seen those yet. I watched all the Disney movies as a kid in the 90s/early 00's but nothing more recent. Admittedly I didn't hate ALL the protags - Mulan was awesome!
according to nick broomfield during his aileen wuornos documentary, gay was born in the boarding schools of europe and was exported to the rest of the world ; )
Yeah, I thought the video was OK but sometimes I feel like it's wrong to put sexuality on fictional characters. Just because a man acts feminine or a woman acts masculine it doesn't make them gay. I feel like some people are afraid to express themselves because of this. Often times I feel that guys and women will stray away from things they naturally enjoy because they're afraid of being called gay when they aren't. Some people just have different personalities.
Absolutely DIVINE topic here. Fun fact, I was almost named Ursula after my great grandmother, but was instead born with very dark hair and was thus named Melanie.
She's technically not a villain, but can we also take a moment to appreciate that really large lady in Aladdin who calls him "rather tasty?" She's an iconic queen in her own right.
Dr Robotnik and Agent Stone from the Sonic movies definitely count under the Disney villain trope. From Robotnik just wilding jamming to "Where Evil Grows" in the goofiest, yet almost charming manner and Agent Stone just having a crush on him and willing to do anything for his approval (also the one scene where Stone's costume ideas for Robotnik is a MAID DRESS).
If Disney Witches have thought us anything it's that purple and black is the best look. Also would love to see that deep dive into camp and queer culture!
IRL, Richard the Lionhearted was the gay son, while John Lackland was the straight one. Eleanor did prefer Richard, her gay son. His homosexuality did limit his ability to extend the Angevin Dynasty, which is why John eventually got the throne.
John had a bunch of kids, he has 100 million descendants today. You've got a one in three chance of being descended from him if you're American or English.
@@knighthawk3749 on paper duh... you know the modern concept of national citizenship, not the ethnic history and historical oppression of one group on another. Now you can criticise how citizenship is decided and how institutions set up to do that are harmful but that's not going to happen by you going eeerm actually.
@@ANTSEMUT1What the hell are you talking about? Did you even read the post I am replying to? BIPOC people have 1/3 chance of being descended from King John? Descendents of immigrants from outside Western Europe have 1/3 chance too? US resident is not the only American that exists. Everybody from Mexico and South of it is also an American. You made one of the stupidest most non-sequietur comments I have seen in a while.
@@knighthawk3749 I suspect that most African Americans are descendants of King John since they are about 40-60% European, genetically, and most of that is Anglo Saxon. I myself am part Asian and am a descendant on my WASP father's side. So, like I said, all American people.
Uncle Bruno from Encanto is the fake-out villain, but I'd argue his story is that of a closeted/shunned gay family member. He's a 50 year old bachelor, he's got those "jazz hands", he's into theater, he lives isolated from his family (partially) due to social pressure; he's the outcast and the black sheep of the family, and has a complicated relationship with his mother. (Also, he sees the future, which is typically a female role in societies that practice(d) that!) He's even evil-green colored, and his flamboyant nephew sung a scary campy song about him. Sorry, not the point of the video, but I thought it was fun to point out that they kept up the tradition even now x) I guess what's modern about him, or rather how the view on homosexuality has changed, is that he's not actually a criminal/villain, since one of Encanto's core messages is acceptance. Also I recently rewatched the Lion King for the first time since I was a kid and finally understand why people call Scar the gay uncle. He is amazing.
Fun fact, when Encanto released but I haven't seen it yet, but I have heard and watched some clips of the song without context, I remember one time where I was talking to my friends and I (ironically) said like 'Wait, Bruno is the gay uncle like Scar or what?' and everyone was like, not really, buuuuuuut... Still, since I was a kid I used to kin Scar and, yes, I also kin Bruno. Not that they have to be the gays uncles, but as gay I kinda feel identificated with both of them, not just the mannerism or the camp, queer code, but the family stuff so yeah, even Bruno is kinda queercoded.
This is probably just me wanting my favorite male Disney character to be straight and sexually compatible with me, but... That is really just listing stereotypes, and what is "jazz hands" anyway? And I thought that the cliché (even though I guess that this cliché is less common these days) was that all gay men are overly close to their mothers? But I guess that Bruno's situation (which is being a Mama's boy, who seemed to try but always fail to please his mother) is in the same ballpark. That said, he only was the "black sheep" after he was 40 years old and decided to hide from his family as a sacrifice for his five-year-old niece Mirabel. Until then, he might have had a strained relationship with his mother and Pepa but still was a fully accepted member of his family...
We’re not saying he IS gay. We’re just saying he has traits of queer coded characters. I always saw Bruno as being someone shunned for any number of reasons, but as a family with transphobes, I always resonated with being shunned for being queer which makes him more relatable. If you don’t agree that’s fine. Just let us have our fun. @@Furienna
"I live for furs, I worship furs" Outside of the original context this sounds like it could be said by someone very deep into the weird side of the furry community
Hitchcock was notorious for trolling the Hays Code. You couldn't display undergarments such as pants and panties so he had things like napkins and cardboard cutouts made to resemble them so when the film was inspected he could pull them out to tell them 'They're legal. Technically.'
As a fun fact: Many know where did the inspiration for Ursula in the Lil Mermaid came from, but in the latin spanish dub, there was something else, Javier Pontón, the voice director, just couldn't find an actress that fit what he wanted for Ursula, until he one day saw a performance by an actress and singer, her voice impressed him, it had the evil and androgynous touch he was looking for, and asked her to play the role, to which she didn't accepted initially, until they came to an agreement, that she would be credited with her artistic name, her legal name was Angel Garza, but her artistic name, her real name was Serena Olvido. She would play the character in all official material for 4 years and would eventually complete her transition. She would pass away in 2008 due to problems derived from heart issues
I want a disney movie where the protagonist recognizes the injustices inherent in the system they are trying to restore, and instead sides with the villains to create a better, more inclusive system.
It kind of happens in the Disney Channel Original Movie Series Descendants, where the whole concept is that the heir to the throne decides it's not right to keep children in the villain ghetto created by the "hero" parents and that they should bring in some of the villain kids to the hero kids' school. Although that ends up being more of a parallel to race relations in America.
Frozen 2? (Unfortunately it lacks a good actual antagonist.) Arguably the first Frozen as well, since Elsa was the "villain" if you go by "who's the queer-coded one and has the best song?"
@ㄉㄎㄉ • ꨆꨟꨮꩆ ꨣꨰꨕ In the Loki TV series, there's a TVA file on him and under gender it says 'fluid.' He also comes out as Bi. I hope season 2 explores that.
@ㄉㄎㄉ • ꨆꨟꨮꩆ ꨣꨰꨕ loki in mythology canonically has 3 children, 2 of which he birthed himself. 1. is when he turned into a mare to seduce this giant's horse to hinder his work and no. 2 is when he ate a witch's heart and got pregnant because of it. also he shapeshifts into a girl to pretend to be thor's handmaiden when all of asgard told him (thor) to pretend to be freyja to get his hammer back. loki is canonically the queerest, most iconic, and most spiteful litlle bitch that has ever walked the earth and everyone loves him for it because they should
The villains are just more interesting people than the heroes. Sleeping Beauty is literally just a cipher, and in the Lion King just holds up an unfair system designed to oppress "undesirables". I always found the Nazi correlation of Scar weird, because the system with Mufasa is literally oppression of hyenas and murder of thousands of animals justified by them. I also find it interesting how these villains have body types that are in direct contrast to the cookie cutter, extremely narrow body types accepted by Disney and that their heroes had. Ursula Vs Ariel, Snow White Vs maleficent, Scar Vs Mufasa and later Simba, Jafar Vs Aladdin. Gaston is also an interesting case because by exaggeration of the " desired" male physical traits, they make him undesirable.
I never took Mufasa's justification of eating animals as a justification of murder, because it is clearly part of how nature works in that setting and cannot be avoided - it is framed as part of the importance of respecting nature and acknowledging one's own mortality as part of a greater life, so it doesn't feel like a fake ideology. On the other hand, the emargination of hyenas just because they are scavengers always bugged me (isn't that part of the circle of life, too?), and I sympathised with them. As well as with poor Zazu, so obviously abused.
You are right it is an unfair system in the lion king run by both Mufasa and Scar. Scar himself doesn't mind the monarchy because he wanted to be king himself. He wasn't bothered that hyenas were oppressed. What bothered him is that his brother had a privilege which he misses. For me Scar is still the most interesting character because of his sarcasm and how smart he is. But you can't blame Mufasa for the unfair system when every lion we saw - hell even Simba - supports it
I accidentally hit this button while my phone was in my pocket, but decided that was a sign from the universe that your amazing work needs to get a, unfortunately low--if I get extra money I'll make a better one--monetary thanks for your amazing work!
No one can convince me that Gaston from Beauty and the Beast is NOT a conflicted gay man. His anxiety to marry and be SEEN with the most beautiful girl in town (casually the only one around who doesn't feel sexually attracted to him), his constant bad mood despite having everything, his need to show his masculinity all the time to the others, his worry about how others see him... But, unlike the villains you mentioned, he IS part of the statu quo and wants to reinforce it (he encourages the people to kill the Beast, to lock Belle in, to get rid of everything strange, different and menacing to the closed minds... And they follow him as their leader with no question). That's why he's not likeble. And the two protagonists, in this case, are the ones who oppose the system, who don't fit, who feel excluded and misunderstood... Much more relatable than almost all the other protagonists in Disney movies...
@gaby juen I've been spending the last 10 minutes trying to put this theory of Gaston into words. Someone in the comments said Gaston was " straight "...., but I disagree as he gives the modern day 'incel' vibe to me .. and you verbalized my thoughts to perfection! Thank you
@@cactus3510 Being biphopic means that I feel uncomfortable around bisexual people or that I discriminate them. It's a very harsh accusation and you shouldn't give it so lightly. I just theorized that a FICTIONAL character is a closeted and conflicted gay man (since he doesn't seem to have a real attraction for women though he tries to marry at all costs someone "pretty" who doesn't like him but would make him look "good" in front of the society)
No mention of Gaston? Oh come on, between pretty plainly wanting belle as a status symbol beard, hangs out at a bar and wrestling with men, not even acknowledging the trio of blondes except to talk about himself. Nit to mention Beast as an aids allegory. And let's not forget, the gayest thing ever, "I use antlers in all of my DEEECORAAATING" Hes a DL masc4masc jock bear
Well matt did say he wasnt going to mention every villain that fits the category. But if he did there is also Hades who is literally flaming and lives in the dark, and governor Ratcliff with his pig tails and fabulous garments
@@pearluniverse7878 I can understand that. But given that he shows no actual attraction to others, his gay coding is the only notion of sexuality he has
I think in part it's because we're told for so much of our lives that we're evil threats to the heterosexual norm, that seeing a queercoded character do exactly that and have a great time doing so is hugely cathartic. In a way it's left me feeling mixed about newer heroic gay characters. I'm pleased to see them of course but the narrative accepts them as normal in a way I don't really experience in real life.
@@JenSell1626 My friend did. Probably because his wife would never let him. I would have if he was interested in me but no such luck. He'd probably be more interested in my books and werid trinkets collections.
This is great! This reminds me of a quote from Rick and Morty, "Your Boos Mean Nothing, I've Seen What Makes You Cheer". Before you feel bad about being labeled as bad or wrong, take a good look at the fella with the label maker. Chances are there's not a damn thing wrong with you.
I never picked up on the 'gay aura' of these villains, and despite being straight i've related a lot to them, and I see some of their mannerisms in my own personality. Guess gay vibes are badass, gay or not
this guy is too gay and only thinking of gay 24/7 that's why he see gays in everything...i bet he can even tell 101 facts why a shrimp paste are gay in scientific way
I've heard a great deal about some of the gay-coded villains before, like Scar, Prince John, and Ratigan, but I had never heard such a thorough analysis of the Evil Queen! Super interesting. One of my favorites who didn't get mentioned in this video is Dr. Facilier.
As a nonbinary asexual person, I realize I tended to see myself in any character that was seen not actively pursuing a love interest (like most of the protagonists were) or who defied gender stereotypes. It's interesting to me to realize how I projected onto these characters as a kid despite how they were meant to be coded. I had no idea who I was back then but I knew damn well I related way more to the villains (and the "comic relief" characters) than to the protagonists. Who wants cookie cutter love when you can have power and express yourself genuinely?
Would infinitely prefer love to power. 😄And most of the protagonists aren't actually actively pursuing, but just sort of fall into having love interests. But I see what you mean. For someone whom love holds no sway the villains are going to be more relatable.
"I like the Evil Queen's scenes better than Snow White's." Well yeah, White has... no personality. She is the silent, characterless protagonist in a video game you're supposed to project yourself onto. And sadly this makes her the LEAST interesting of all Disney mains.
She's the kind of character that's great when she is a video game protagonist because you can look through their eyes and nearly terrible any other time when we have to watch them react to the world around them.
@@scaper8 It's why to me, if they want to make a good Hitman movie they need to NOT focus on 47. Have him in the background, the story is ABOUT him, but we follow the cop who's AFTER him. Of course they team up at the end for the big Hitman end level shootout, but til then only have 47 in the background in various disguises (NEVER have the camera make it obvious, it's only if you're paying attention) with the cop following clues while on 47's trail. You only show what 47 did in flashbacks. And of course it's later revealed that the cop's the one who's been feeding the ICA 47's missions, all in an attempt to stop some bio weapons deal of clones... or something.
I really hope you can talk about Judge Claude Frollo, his character's impact on people like me who were gay and raised religiously and dealt with alot of guilt because of our experiences in religion. He's my favorite villain and does a great job at exposing how damaging a strict religious upbringing can be.
Most Disney villains love themselves. They feel good in their skins and enjoy their plans and show it. Not like Disney heroes. Could you imagine a hero behaves like Ursula does? The heroes only get this love from others not from themselves. For example everyone says Snow White is the most beautiful woman there. Everyone else is allowed to think or say that. But how dare Snow White viewing herself as beautiful. Somehow the message is always "be humble, modest and polite. Wait for others to tell you you're beautiful, but don't you dare say it yourself". Therefore there's, as well, the message "selflove is bad / evil". Hero: external love Villain: selflove
One of the things about watching Snow White is how you realize it's very much the Evil Queen's movie. Snow White doesn't actually do much....sings to some wild animals, runs away, shacks up with seven men, then eats an apple and falls into a coma. Her entire story is reactive. Other than the song "Someday, my prince will come", I have no idea what she wants. And even that is a passive desire. She's not trying to find her prince. She's waiting for him. The Evil Queen, on the other hand, has a goal that she's proactive about carrying out. It's not a very nice or moral goal, but at least it's a goal.
Absolutely! People apparently loved the 7 Dwarves schtick back then but I do find her scenes with them a bit ... unexciting. The only scene with her that I really enjoy is when he's running through the forest screaming at every tree she sees!
@@MattBaume It's actually something I've noticed about a lot of the old Disney princesses. If you look at Sleeping Beauty and Cinderella, it's the same thing. The villains get to do stuff (Cinderella's stepmother and stepsisters, Maleficent), and the sidekick characters get to be entertaining (the mice and maybe the Fairy Godmother for Cinderella, the good fairies for Sleeping Beauty), but the main characters get to sit around being virtuous and waiting. Cinderella doesn't even get to save herself, like she does in a lot of the other versions. She's locked in the cellar and the mice have to steal the key. (In the Grimm story, she seduces the Prince like 3 times before he shows up with the slipper, managing to evade her (living) father, and in the Rogers and Hammerstein musical, she hides in the garden when the Prince comes with the slipper, and then after the stepsisters have failed to make it fit, barges in, and demands she be allowed to try, presenting the other slipper as well. I don't know if it was just because Walt Disney Studios was a pretty conservative place and Disney had some pretty old fashioned values, and he didn't want his heroines to be too assertive, but it's really something that you notice if you look at the early female protagonists, especially if you compare them to the male ones....Pinocchio, Bambi, Dumbo, even the little kid in Song of the South, all get to be active and move the plot forward. The only female protagonist before Mary Poppins in 1964 who actually gets to do anything interesting is Alice in Alice in Wonderland.
I do like them more as I get older, the characters having fun just being themselves. Kind of makes me think of how I grew into a teenager I became increasingly sarcastic, my humour based a lot on exaggeration to point out how ridiculous something is, which I never thought about as connected to camp. It is also a whole granted thing that I was in denial to myself until I was a good deal older, but I do think that I adopted some parts.
@kelp7060 Hasan allows anyone to repost his content. Hell, he's made a community out of it. Wtf are you talking about? Lol. If Hasan wants to give his own content away, then he's free to do so. What are you alluding that hbomberguy has to do with it, exactly?
@@PoeInTheDitch My comment isn't exactly hard to figure out, mate. hasan steals content all the time and hbomb treats it like that's fine, which is hypocritical. Go watch hasan debate ethan on this. It's very clear hasan believes that everyone's stuff should be up for grabs. hasan has also said horrible things and lies constantly.
"but no villain does camp like a disney villain" i was just about to mention Chancellor palpatine from the star wars prequels... but star wars is disney owned now, so that theory still holds true.
The muscle? Daddy issues? They are always more interesting? Or perhaps because they have reasons such as getting bullied and left out, and we relate ✨💅🏻
For me, it's a combo of more interesting and the fact that you can tell the actors are just having SO MUCH FUN in the roles! That translates into a GREAT performance and it makes us enjoy them all the more :)
Leaving a comment to say thank you for this video. Hbomberguy helped me see it among your videos and I never got to watch it, but I was subscribed to you already. I am now interested in seeing Robin Hood in particular. Keep up your great work! 😊
Well, I must admit that Evil Queen was always a cartoon crush. When it comes to European Cinema there are some really great old films including homosexuality not in a villainous way and actually with very nice, interesting and classy characters.
I'm the worst at picking up coding. All these villains that were apparently just screaming gay never once put the thought into my head that they were gay. I had to learn about character coding in my late 20s before I noticed it. Their sexualities never even cropped up in my mind.
Matt, I think Lady Dimitrescu from Resident Evil 8 can be read as a house mother. She has traditionally masculine qualities like height and strength with exaggerated female garb and is the matronly figure in charge of three 'daughters'
@@ANTSEMUT1 Why are you saying masculine women are a bad thing? This is an inclusive environment where we accept all forms of gender expression, including women with traditionally masculine qualities.
I'm not queer but what I love the most about Disney villains is they have this "fuck everyone" attitude. I strive to be as savage as they are when responding to stupid annoying people. Their confidence is also really admirable. The villains are usually witty and has a great sense of depressing humor too which I really love. They rarely gets angry, they're basically unbothered. Who won't love a badass, fancy, powerful, witty and funny character? They're basically the embodiment of things that people strive to be but can't because of different reasons.
I started watching this out of curiosity and ended with a tear in my eye. I'm pretty far off from what one would call normal where I'm from, so hearing about Crystal and the bar story and just all that is so inspiring and wonderful to hear. I've been struggling all my life with striving to be loved and i guess to be "perfect" and honestly i think this has given me the push i needed. Thank you soooo much for this video and for sharing those important stories that should definitely be taught about more❤️
The comments about the defying of the status quo reminded me of the hunchback. I don’t think we necessarily dislike Judge Frollo but we acknowledge him many times as being one, if not, the most evil villain. Yes! He does have a deep voice but he is a man, he lusts over a woman and is actually trying to keep the status quo, which is based in discrimination and hatred of a minority. I love Hellfire but the vibe it gives is so different than any other villain song.
This is why Disney movies beginning with Frozen seem so lacking nowadays - no campy villain. And no campy villain to means unmemorable movie. Almost. I mean I love Zootopia. Someone put gays in charge of the animation department so we can have fun villains again, please.
Also make villains evil for evil sake. Sure a little sympathy isn't bad but come on, not every villain has to have a tragic past. Give us vilians who love being evil cuz it's fun for them, make them steal the show not just the thrown
I really enjoyed Raya and I love Zootopia, but yeah I totally agree with this and the first reply. We can definitely use some new snazzy villains outside the cartoon shows (Magica De Spell for example is fabulous and she was pretty recent on Disney XD)
Well... going by the first Frozen (since I haven't seen II) Elsa, originally was supposed to be the villain. Again, an unmarried woman in a position of power (and no romantic interest), she had to hide who she was (until bursting forth with Let It Go, which wound up being too good to be a villain song). Possible doubling up with Hans pretending to be interested in Anna (and the latter eventually decking him....)
When I was a little child I was obsessed with Simba, but as I grew older I started liking Scar more and more, I really saw myself in him, even if I didn't understand that at the time
I think the ironic thing about camp is that, even though it's based on artifice, can be a method of self-expression. There are drag performers who have used the art form to explore their own identity through a character. I believe camp appeals to the queer community because it allows a historically repressed group of people to express themselves freely and openly.
Also as a “falsetto child” I often felt the need to defend my obsession with the Disney villain. Chalking it up to “they always had more fun & flair + there would be no movie without them.”
Lady Tremaine and mother Gothel are my favorites but their kind of tame. Their goals aren't to gain power to rule over anyone just gain a personal advantage like wealth or youthfulness. They both gate-keep and gaslight emotionally without magic powers ( except for Cinderella 3 and rapunzels hair ( or the rapunzel series)) their victims.
I think when you're a child, you like the princess, but when you grow up you identify more with the villains because you understand why they’re so pissed
i preferred the villains even as a child. Ursula reminded me of my grandma and i wanted to cuddle her. today she's still my favourite for different reasons, but, aside from Djinnie and some other sidekicks (especially the grumpy ones), none of the "good" characters ever appealed to me.
I prefered the villains because they were more fun haha. Scar was my weird childhood crush for the sheer amount of sarcastic comments. He got away with saying shit i was always too shy for
Nah, I have to say that I prefer the leads (no matter if they are princesses or not) even as a grown-up. Belle, Jane Porter, Madellaine and Mirabel in particular are my home girls, and I just adore some male characters like Quasimodo and Bruno as well. What about the villains though, you ask. Well, they do play an important role in the story, and it can be fun to watch them sometimes, but I can't sympathize with them...
Being bisexual with a lot of friends who are either bisexual or straight up homosexual, let me say you did an amazing analysis of this. Honestly, i had some feeling watching these movies I had a feeling, BUT never truly thought much about this until this video......great job. Keep up the great work.
@@hassanalkhalaf1115 Well I did say without the fratricidal tendencies so no, but also because I don't have a brother and I'm the oldest siblings. I'm also the weird uncle that all the kids love.
I’m thinking about it now, and I think an important element of camp is that it’s performative, but performative in a way that emphasizes personal enjoyment. It’s doing something socially transgressive because you like it, and for no other reason. And the transgression can be either big or small, it just has to be visible and fun.
Okay, so I'm a descendant of King John of England (the evil prince from Robin Hood) and I find it unimaginably HILARIOUS that they queercoded wicked Grandpa King John, when Uncle Richard (King Richard the Lion Heart, who was away in the crusades for most of the film) was as gay as gay can be. Uncle Richard and the King of France were... VERY close.
What fascinates me is the way that pretty much every modern (heck anything post the late 1500s) Robin Hood story associates him with King Ricard and Prince John, and portrays the return of Richard the Lionheart as the happy ending..... but historically that happened in 1194 and then Richard died 5 years later and John because King anyways. So in the context of the story the 'Happily Ever After' is actually 'Happy for about 5 year tops, maybe 6 at a push'.
Those Crusaders "were inflamed with the fires of Sodom." At least that's what some of the contemporary bishops said. No wonder the crusades were so popular. And hello cousin. Grandpa John was fertile.
hey i came here from hbomberguy and i didnt expect to be so moved by a video essay tonight, youre truly insightful and i appreciate that a lot. ive also found the queer history to be very interesting and emotional, i nearly cried
This is one of the best videos that I've seen on queer coding. I've heard this topic discussed before, but I learned a lot and I really appreciated the new insights you have.
I recall reading something in one of my sociology classes about how the "Disney Theme" often incorporated a female trifecta of the young, vulnerable protagonist the salacious or provocative "femme fatale" villain and the wise grandmother figure who was herself sexually unthreatening. I'd argue that Disney started to stray from this formula around "Pocahontas" when they have a male villain but there were some decidedly queer or effeminate things about him if you take any time to look so it's interesting.
As a straight, I didn't really understand queercoding (have only heard the term), so this was really fascinating to watch. There's always room to learn!
Same here. I did know that Ursula's looks were based on a drag queen and that some male villains were a bit effeminate, but I thought that people still were exaggerating. However, this video has managed to finally explain it to me. So I'm sure that some Disney villains (Horned King, Lady Tremaine, Bill Sykes, Shan Yu, McLeach, Mother Gothel, King Candy, Prince Hans) don't fit into this. But now I at least get what people are talking about...
Matt, I think your channel has the distinction of reliably having the best, most positive and enthusiastic comment section on youtube. What a joy to watch and then read everyone having a good time.
Three things, I think John Waters should direct an Ursula prequel. Elenore of Aquitaine is known to be a Queen of Shade, and Prince John's tantrum reminded me of the saying "Anyone who has to tell people they are the king is not a king, if you are the king people know."
Villains are often also shown as the ones not feeling romantic/sexual love towards anyone and that's where aromantic and asexual people find their lacking representation
OMW. Thank you. I had no idea why I loved villains growing up, but now I get. As a girl raised in a very traditional and religious environment, I did not appreciate the status quo. But now that you explain it, it makes sense. I wanted to tear it down, so that's why i could relate to villains.
Being punished by the end of the movie for perceived sinfulness is called "compensatory morality." Thank you one film unit I had in English 101. I love villains too, they flout social conventions and frankly know how to have a good time.
McCarthy and Cohn caused more damage than the Hays code ever did and they were both closeted gay men. If anyone ever deserved to die from AIDS, it was Roy Cohn.
I agree, but mostly disagree. Cinema and comics (visual narrative) would have lost so much sophistication that it cultivated in getting around the codes. Restriction breeds creativity and authenticity.
@@Elvenboyslut If by 'sophistication' you mean using marginalized people (people of colour, LGBTQ+ people, disabled people) as lazy code for villains, sure we got that. We also lost decades of progress in LGBTQ+ representation and BIPOC representation. But I'm sure that we marginalized people were a reasonable sacrifice for some tropes to be born.
I like how you mentioned how much fun these villains are having as they go bigger, bolder, and more aggressively against the mainstream. Even though they all end up dieing or getting trapped in the end, they had the *most* fun doing it. If I end up going out against my will, I hope I go out with as big of a bang as these villains do. (I don't mean to sound overtly aggressive or scary with that last sentence, I just mean that I would want to go out fighting for reform with as much drama and freedom to show who I am as thr villains do)
I still don't understand how The Haunting got away with having a pretty openly bisexual woman whom nothing bad really happens to. It came out only at the very beginning of the end of the code.
Every other villain: *laughs*
Scar: proceeds to show his intellectual superiority
Still laughed though
Scar is clearly watches Rick and Morty
@@ashkitt7719 He is the large IQ
And later acts like a bratty child.
@@BlackCover95 And is an extremely inconsistent person who keeps on making dumb decision after dumb decision in which he shoots himself in the foot.
To be fair, who doesn't sympathize with Scar when he says, "I'm surrounded by idiots"?
School in a nutshell.
Me, with savant syndrome due to autism:
Me when my sister and cousin are being dumb in a game
Yeah yeah we get it, you have superiority complex and think that you are better than everybody else, now please go to bed little tommy
My henchmen are idiots, too. 😂😂😂
I basically am attracted to their confidence in the way they carry themselves. They don't hold back from showing all of themselves.
The same could be said of flashers.
@@wabbajack2No, not really
@@wabbajack2 The difference? One is sexual harassment :D
Yes! That's what it is FOR SURE, for me at least. Thanks for saying this, the video just barely helped me answer the question for myself)
@@wabbajack2You mean straight dudes?
The three fairies talk about Maleficent like she a salty ex girlfriend
I love that backstory, like they all belonged to the same lesbian commune in their 20s
@@MattBaume then each one of the fairies dated Maleficent all of which ended badly and that’s why they all talk shit about her
God, you know SOME kind of Dram went down!
3 women co-habiting? I guess they're 'Just Friends" TM
@@CharlotteWV01 Oh my God they were *roommates*
Just a note about Jafar and his eyeliner: while yes Disney probably meant it as something else, it's actually quite common for some middle eastern men to wear eyeliner as a cultural thing.
Yea as someone from the middle east its very traditional for people of all the genders to wear it, people from my country call it "kajal" I used to wear it alot as kid
Not just in the Middle East. Kajal is popular in parts African and South Asia too
his eyeliner was literally fire tho
I used it all the time for baseball and football.
But you know, ask a pro baseball player and theyll tell you baseball is the most casually gay sport around. Bell bottom spandex pants, baseball bats, balls, and everyone matches right down to the shoes.
Super gay and fun to play.
Nowadays when i go out as my real self i tend to go back to those looks for inspiration. To a lot of people im obviously... different but also clearly stereotypically manly enough to not be bothered. Its a weird balance but it works.
But now im wondering if some of that reaction isnt some post 9/11 fear bs. Curious. I just thought i was scary lol
Make up has been worn by men in many different cultures and during many different times.
But Jafar's 'eyeliner' is a character design choice to make his eyes look more deep set and expressive. In general Jafar has a very 'cartoonish' character model. The face is drawn to get maximum expression for those villainous monologues.
Jasmin is 'wearing' kajol as well so it would be an indicator of social class for both characters. The Sultan doesn't have the same design element as he's meant to be a comical somewhat inept character.
"You're so undignified you're showing your colours"
"I am beautiful! I have a _right_ to show my colour!"
I dont think I've ever heard a metaphor get so beautifully ignored. What a stunning moment, what a stunning response.
On top of that metaphor about skin colour, it's even more ironic that it's at a drag event, one of the most literally colourful places around. Even at a place like that, if you 'didn't show your colours' in an acceptable manner, you'd be the bad guy.
Please, shut up.
Stop perpetuating a stereotype.
The statement made to Crystal is "You're showing your color" insinuating that she was showing her "Blackness" by being overly emotional and temperamental because Black people have no decorum or self control. That's why Crystal was told "Now is not the time to show temperament' when she storms off stage. The person that said that was insulting her race That's why Crystal tells them that she has a right to show her color, not her colors or what you may perceive as them meaning her "true colors". That's not what was being insinuated at all. They were telling her now isn't the time to "act Black"..
@@covertLLC Saying someone is 'showing their true colours' does not imply any specific colour in normal usage. It's not generally used as a racist phrase.
@@4dragons632 you don't read or comprehend well.. 😆
Disney villains really did say “be gay, do crimes”
They're not gay!
From what is your avi?
@@donovanlocust1106 "Gay stereotype" as the guy said in the video, and Who know they could be. As you heard in the video is was illegal so even if they were Disney could not said they were.
@@alexl6459 I never saw them as stereotypes of gay until now, interesting take, on another note I really like the scene of Philip fighting goblins
@@alexl6459 I never saw them as stereotypes of gay until now, interesting take, on another note I really like the scene of Philip fighting goblins
Missed Hades. He´s so extra and proud of himself, you just gotta love him.
He acts pretty gay for Hercules
I know
@@nineinchthreadthey’re related but it’s greek mythology so I guess lmao
Zeus and Hera = siblings
@@nineinchthread Hades was originally going to be played by Jack Nickel-son but Disney found him unreasonable.
Im here to watch a NON plagarised video about gay Disney villains.
Yep! Thanks Hbomb
Same!
This is plagiarized? From where?
@@Sun-nn no no! Someone stole this video word for word. This is the non plagerised one
@@Bionicbutter43 Who did?
I'm surprised there was no mention of Yzma. Voiced by, and basically drawn to look like, the magnificent gay icon Eartha Kitt.
I was thinking the same thing.
Oh I should have given her a shoutout. At least there's a brief appearance by fellow Catwoman Julie Newmar!
@@MattBaume Yzma is my favorite and it doesn't get much gayer than her catch phase "Pull the lever!". 😃
Ugh she’s my favorite. Her and Kronk’s dynamic is ICONIC
She's also voiced by her
Another note regarding Prince John regarding his gay coding, they gave him one big feminine trait (or more accurately omitted one major trait) When King Richard shows up, you see that he's a lion with a big full mane, but Prince John isn't given one, making him have physical traits like a lioness.
Prince John is trans now
He's trans and i love him for it now
@@DeathnoteBB i cant find anything official about it but that is my reality now
I noticed that too! Ha!
He has too much fluffyness on his head. Reminds me of younger males
The reason why i like more the villain than the hero is about the expressivness. The hero make always the good thing without mistakes and if they do a mistake, they do not turn mad like most of the evils do. In that way the villains are more "human"
The gayest character is actually a villain sidekick and it's Smee, Captain Hooks sidekick and I absolutely love that character. He's so adorable
This really.changes my opinion of Hook as well. Wonder if what's his name realized it.
My money is on the Cheshire Cat. What with all that sassy ass swaying and tail flicking, disappearing and reappearing in different swishy poses each time, the elegant pairing of pale pink and pale purple, the seductive tinny echo of Sterling Holloway's voice, and the whitest teeth you've ever damn seen. Dude looks like he was pulled right out of Paris is Burning.
The film Hook took the gay subtext between Captain Hook and Shmee to another level.
@@melissaharris3389 Didn't the actors went full gay while playing in the movie ? I came across an article saying this two days ago.
My school just put on Peter Pan junior….. and I played smee….. and I’m a lesbian…..
This is neat because I see a lot of talk about queer coding in reference to gay men, but not so much about lesbian women. It’s interesting to see the slight difference in their presentation
Yeap I see putting Men in " effeminate" roles was used to show kind of corruption.too,
Female villains were many times more like divas than butch or something, it is a interesting point.
Gay coding is tied into traditional gender roles.
Another queer coded female villain I recall is Madame Medusa from "the Rescuers" (1977) tbh she scared me so much when I was a child lol.
Yeah, there's a video somewhere about Cruella and ut's funny how they made her seem horrible (puppy coat, like, wow) but everything else was relatable. Nice try, but we love her anyway.
As someone who is gay himself, I feel like this was a really beautiful way to show why I personally love Disney villains, especially Ursula and Scar.
They’re fun, they’re over-the-top, they aren’t afraid of people not liking them because people already don’t like them, they’re the outcast, they want the world that shunned them to help them for a change.
I never truly knew why I loved the villains more, but not I understand part of my psyche better.
Fantastic video and thanks for the realization.
@@ReinersBlauerHoden Is he? I’ve never made that connection and I can’t find anything supporting this claim.
Not to discredit or disregard personal experience if you feel this way, but why do you say this?
When I was little I worshipped the Disney female villains. I glorified the Evil Queen, Cruella and Maleficent as if they were my prophets. I would watch their movies non stop, print pictures of them and tape them all around my room and walk around the house wearing a blanket which I would use as either a cape or fur coat.
Yikes!!
@@JamesChessman Oh, shut up! You are just jealous of the fabulousness.
@@MarianaSilva-kh4io well everyone is entitled to their own fabulousness!! :)
@@JamesChessman 🤨
BLASPHEMOUS!!!!! (not referred to opinions)
I definitely felt sympathy for Scar when it comes to how his family treated him. And I don't even have a bad family life, I just feel for people and characters who do! When Zazu says the stuff about making him into a rug I'm like "If Zazu wasn't framed as the comic relief, that's a goddamn villain line", so I always thought it was a bit too harsh.
Also it's a little bit unsettling that Scar's plan was to include a group of people pushed to the margins into society and the movie shows unequivocally that he was wrong and the status quo was the only way to survive
@@xenosauridae
Yeah, he might have given hyenas power for his own selfish reasons, but that doesn't make Mufasa and co. look great since the hyenas are shown like an oppressed people and not like an equivalently-powerful enemy.
I know that Scar's big problem near the end is not wanting to move to better hunting grounds but the drought also wasn't his fault, and saying that the hyenas over-hunted SO MUCH would be pretty ridiculous. He definitely still was a bad guy, but the movie seems to be aggressively pushing us into thinking he's WORSE.
There's definitely some divine rulership themes. The drought IS his fault, because he was not the rightful king. But ya, when your movie says the mistreated outcast, who uses his kingship to uplift a marginalized population, literally upsets the natural order so much that it causes a drought....I have questions. And Simba, a confused slacker kid who has no idea what real rulership means, brings the rain, just because of birthright. There's some messaging issues in that movie. I still love it for great animation and memorable music and characters. But there's a lot to unpack, and it's pretty close to the surface.
And remember that Easter egg in Hercules where Scar skin is a "rug".
Also it was revealed in the novelization that Scar's birth name was Taka, the Swahili word for trash. His family named him garbage while his brother was named king, of course he was messed up.
Gay people: *exist in media*
Will H. Hays: Let's make gay people the villains so people think being gay is bad!
Gay people: *love gay villains and embrace them, making them more popular than the heroes*
Will H. Hays: You weren't supposed to do that.
Oooh -also:
Gays: We're coming out of the closet
Straights: let's tar them with a disparaging name to keep them in the closet
Gays: love the name queers, embrace it
Straights: You weren't supposed to do that.
@@flimsyjimnz I thought Queer Use to mean happy?
gay used to and still does mean happy as well as homosexual. queer means strange and simultaneously non-cishet. @@HannibalTorrance
i have used gay in writing to describe someone being happy
@@flimsyjimnz”That’s _our_ word for making fun of _you!”_
-Homer J. Simpson
A thought on camp villians- think of Gaston from beauty and the beast. He is so so so masculine that it is literally laughable. Many of the things he says or does are literally meant for a laugh to the audience. He is also really bombastic and over the top with his manliness. It almost cone across like a drag performance. Like you could totally see a woman dressing up Like a man and "playing" Gaston, the over the top man.
Also he is so masculine he almost comes across as gay anyway. He is still portrayed as being vain and concerned about gis appearance, clearly works out a lot and spends long amounts of time with nothing but men either in the military or out hunting. He is also like all the other villains very theatrical and musical theater-ish. He also loves interior decorating. I mean he uses antlers but still. He almost comes across like a deeply closeted gay man who has sex with his friend/admirer/ sidekick but no homo bc Gaston is always Top
eggs
It's not gay if you have socks on
He's so toxicly masculine he's gay, ngl that's fucking funny.
@Watermelon Ice no it isn't but it tips further toward the stereotype than not doing so
Gaston reminds me of the episode of Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt when Mikey is coming out to his extremely Italian Catholic family and his father breaks the tension by pointing to his brother who is so very obviously "straight" due to his athletic body, curious amount of time spent at the gym, and need to insert the word boobs into every conversation 🤣
I love Scar cause I was also the one who grew up in lesser favor to siblings. His sarcasm is so dark and I really feel that. He's so elegantly evil and I'm always here for it. Plus he managed to get his point across like not many others had the chance to.
One time, I was watching Josh Scorcher's Top 10 Villain Songs and I ended up having a dream where he made a list of Top 10 Deleted or Cut Villain Songs. Let's just say the number one deleted or cut song was Ahadi's song.
For those who don't know, Ahadi was the father of Mufasa and Taka (or Scar), and let's just say there's a good reason why the song was cut/deleted. Apparently, Taka grew close to a Hyena cub named "Zuberi", and Ahadi physically, emotionally, and mentally abused him because he'd "rather have a king for a son than a fruit for a harvest". Josh mentioned that he's heard the song via the "Wayback website" and the reason why he refuses to even play or show the lyrics was because it made the picketers from the Westboro Baptist Church look like the cast of My Little Pony Friendship is Magic and Steven Universe by comparison...
And he actually succeeded with his plan and had the best Disney villain song.
Fair warning, you might be about to experience a viewership bump. I wouldnt worry about it.
I've been watching hbomb for years, but only started watching Matt within a year or so, so the shout-out was quite cool.
I'm so glad hbomberguy did this shoutput. I already knew alot of queer creators i'm suprised i didn't know matt baume yet! So far this video is really really cool, i'm looking Forward to seeing more!
@lolno6465 me too! I'm surprised by how many I did/didn't know. I'm working my way through hbomb's playlist to see some new people and some old favourites 😅
genuinely thank you hbomb. I needed to see this video, it cleaned up the narrative around my childhood.
Scar is literally the gay uncle. We can’t not like him
LOL I'm the gay uncle 😂
I literally have a trans uncle names scar. Coincidence?
Yeah. It is.
@Lala Mi his dead name was Scarlett and he wanted to keep some resemblance of that. So it started off as a gender neutral nickname and then he got it legally changed.
@Lala Mi no problem, my dad already died recently because of mysterious causes.
Oh shit.
He had a son in the prequels soooo....not everything is and has to be gay. Americans look at childrens movie characters in a way that is so weird now. Creepy.
I never liked Disney heroes/princesses much at all, and I think you've finally helped me understand why. They're usually there to uphold or return the monarchy to its status quo, and that's not something I find very relatable. Ursula and Maleficent are my faves. In addition to all you said, I think there's something especially charming about the villains who are also creatures - in some way less conventionally human than the protagonist. Ursula, being half octopus(?) and Maleficent being a dragon. It's relatable.
I do like Ariel and Elsa, tho, because they buck the status quo and make the world their own at the end. They're the heroes because they stop hiding who they are and own their power. ♥
@@m0L3ify Ah, I haven't seen those yet. I watched all the Disney movies as a kid in the 90s/early 00's but nothing more recent. Admittedly I didn't hate ALL the protags - Mulan was awesome!
@@m0L3ify well said plus Ariel was probably the most attractive character ever!! You know?
down with the monarchy!
@@JamesChessman As a gay girl, I ain't gonna argue with you there! 🥰
I'm here (once again) because of hbomberguy. Matt deserves all the praise for his hooks and style! His stuff is always fun.
when i saw matt get mentioned i was estatic because his work is hella polished and well-written, glad he's getting introduced to more people!
Aw thanks so much and welcome! Glad to have you here. :)
They aren't gay, they are just magnificently and unabashedly European.
according to nick broomfield during his aileen wuornos documentary, gay was born in the boarding schools of europe and was exported to the rest of the world ; )
@@k.morningstar7983 lol. it definitely wasn't but that is kinda funny
Yeah, I thought the video was OK but sometimes I feel like it's wrong to put sexuality on fictional characters. Just because a man acts feminine or a woman acts masculine it doesn't make them gay. I feel like some people are afraid to express themselves because of this. Often times I feel that guys and women will stray away from things they naturally enjoy because they're afraid of being called gay when they aren't. Some people just have different personalities.
This comment needs more likes.
@@totallynotsummermorrison33 queercoded, you can't make a direct gay character so you do it more subtly
Absolutely DIVINE topic here. Fun fact, I was almost named Ursula after my great grandmother, but was instead born with very dark hair and was thus named Melanie.
And like any good villain you're out there laying waste to puppets. Good work, muppetslayer
@@apollofell3925 thank you kindly for the recognition, most don’t care to understand the nature of my work.
That's quite the villain origin story.
BLASPHEMOUS!!!!! (not referred to opinions)
It's impossible not to love Scar. He was so charismatic.
She's technically not a villain, but can we also take a moment to appreciate that really large lady in Aladdin who calls him "rather tasty?" She's an iconic queen in her own right.
YES
OMG YES!!
She was hilarious. She can't ever be forgotten when that song comes to mind.
Yasssss
Impossible to sing One Jump Ahead without doing that line in her voice.
"Stiiiiiillllll awye theeenk 'eeezz RATHA TAYSTYEEE!!!"
“prince john and his skinny legend boyfriend”
☠️
@@guntherhasregrets1954 your pfp is very attractive
@@deludedpup mmmmmmm
Dr Robotnik and Agent Stone from the Sonic movies definitely count under the Disney villain trope.
From Robotnik just wilding jamming to "Where Evil Grows" in the goofiest, yet almost charming manner and Agent Stone just having a crush on him and willing to do anything for his approval (also the one scene where Stone's costume ideas for Robotnik is a MAID DRESS).
If Disney Witches have thought us anything it's that purple and black is the best look.
Also would love to see that deep dive into camp and queer culture!
Disney Witches🤝Asexuals🤝The SS
Black, white, and purple are a killer color scheme
@@ironicdivinemandatestan4262 wait which SS
In 2021 and Disney Witches are still going strong.
@@ironicdivinemandatestan4262 Anarcha-feminists
Don't forget poison green
IRL, Richard the Lionhearted was the gay son, while John Lackland was the straight one. Eleanor did prefer Richard, her gay son. His homosexuality did limit his ability to extend the Angevin Dynasty, which is why John eventually got the throne.
John had a bunch of kids, he has 100 million descendants today. You've got a one in three chance of being descended from him if you're American or English.
@@sleekoduck American? Really? Don't you mean white Anglo-Saxon? And white British? Real Americans have near 0% chance of being his descendants.
@@knighthawk3749 on paper duh... you know the modern concept of national citizenship, not the ethnic history and historical oppression of one group on another. Now you can criticise how citizenship is decided and how institutions set up to do that are harmful but that's not going to happen by you going eeerm actually.
@@ANTSEMUT1What the hell are you talking about? Did you even read the post I am replying to? BIPOC people have 1/3 chance of being descended from King John? Descendents of immigrants from outside Western Europe have 1/3 chance too? US resident is not the only American that exists. Everybody from Mexico and South of it is also an American. You made one of the stupidest most non-sequietur comments I have seen in a while.
@@knighthawk3749 I suspect that most African Americans are descendants of King John since they are about 40-60% European, genetically, and most of that is Anglo Saxon. I myself am part Asian and am a descendant on my WASP father's side. So, like I said, all American people.
Uncle Bruno from Encanto is the fake-out villain, but I'd argue his story is that of a closeted/shunned gay family member. He's a 50 year old bachelor, he's got those "jazz hands", he's into theater, he lives isolated from his family (partially) due to social pressure; he's the outcast and the black sheep of the family, and has a complicated relationship with his mother. (Also, he sees the future, which is typically a female role in societies that practice(d) that!) He's even evil-green colored, and his flamboyant nephew sung a scary campy song about him. Sorry, not the point of the video, but I thought it was fun to point out that they kept up the tradition even now x) I guess what's modern about him, or rather how the view on homosexuality has changed, is that he's not actually a criminal/villain, since one of Encanto's core messages is acceptance.
Also I recently rewatched the Lion King for the first time since I was a kid and finally understand why people call Scar the gay uncle. He is amazing.
That’s… a really good point. Right down to having the most memorable song in the movie.
I never noticed that before!
Fun fact, when Encanto released but I haven't seen it yet, but I have heard and watched some clips of the song without context, I remember one time where I was talking to my friends and I (ironically) said like 'Wait, Bruno is the gay uncle like Scar or what?' and everyone was like, not really, buuuuuuut...
Still, since I was a kid I used to kin Scar and, yes, I also kin Bruno.
Not that they have to be the gays uncles, but as gay I kinda feel identificated with both of them, not just the mannerism or the camp, queer code, but the family stuff so yeah, even Bruno is kinda queercoded.
This is probably just me wanting my favorite male Disney character to be straight and sexually compatible with me, but...
That is really just listing stereotypes, and what is "jazz hands" anyway?
And I thought that the cliché (even though I guess that this cliché is less common these days) was that all gay men are overly close to their mothers?
But I guess that Bruno's situation (which is being a Mama's boy, who seemed to try but always fail to please his mother) is in the same ballpark.
That said, he only was the "black sheep" after he was 40 years old and decided to hide from his family as a sacrifice for his five-year-old niece Mirabel.
Until then, he might have had a strained relationship with his mother and Pepa but still was a fully accepted member of his family...
@@daelen.cclarkBruno has no song, what you're thinking of is a song about how other people slander him...
We’re not saying he IS gay. We’re just saying he has traits of queer coded characters. I always saw Bruno as being someone shunned for any number of reasons, but as a family with transphobes, I always resonated with being shunned for being queer which makes him more relatable. If you don’t agree that’s fine. Just let us have our fun. @@Furienna
"I live for furs, I worship furs"
Outside of the original context this sounds like it could be said by someone very deep into the weird side of the furry community
Imagine all of the stories that could have been told if the Hays Code hadn't existed.
I fully believe the Hayes Code is a big reason why we think “the past” was so chaste and innocent
@@DeathnoteBB sure but also maybe the world has also become more filthy too? lol
Hitchcock was notorious for trolling the Hays Code. You couldn't display undergarments such as pants and panties so he had things like napkins and cardboard cutouts made to resemble them so when the film was inspected he could pull them out to tell them 'They're legal. Technically.'
I think of that quite often
@@JamesChessman no no no do NOT use lol as a cover up
tell me what you mean by filthy i wish to know
As a fun fact: Many know where did the inspiration for Ursula in the Lil Mermaid came from, but in the latin spanish dub, there was something else, Javier Pontón, the voice director, just couldn't find an actress that fit what he wanted for Ursula, until he one day saw a performance by an actress and singer, her voice impressed him, it had the evil and androgynous touch he was looking for, and asked her to play the role, to which she didn't accepted initially, until they came to an agreement, that she would be credited with her artistic name, her legal name was Angel Garza, but her artistic name, her real name was Serena Olvido.
She would play the character in all official material for 4 years and would eventually complete her transition. She would pass away in 2008 due to problems derived from heart issues
I see what you and she did there. Olvido is Spanish for "I forget".
I want a disney movie where the protagonist recognizes the injustices inherent in the system they are trying to restore, and instead sides with the villains to create a better, more inclusive system.
It kind of happens in the Disney Channel Original Movie Series Descendants, where the whole concept is that the heir to the throne decides it's not right to keep children in the villain ghetto created by the "hero" parents and that they should bring in some of the villain kids to the hero kids' school. Although that ends up being more of a parallel to race relations in America.
@@sutarikun
Can we agree that we would like a GOOD Disney movie that does it, then?
@@mastermarkus5307 😅ouch
Zootopia?
Frozen 2? (Unfortunately it lacks a good actual antagonist.)
Arguably the first Frozen as well, since Elsa was the "villain" if you go by "who's the queer-coded one and has the best song?"
I would have liked to see Loki in this video; he's a Disney property, charismatic, flamboyant, gender fluid, resents his jock brother Thor.
YESSSSSSS
YESSSSS
@ㄉㄎㄉ • ꨆꨟꨮꩆ ꨣꨰꨕ In the Loki TV series, there's a TVA file on him and under gender it says 'fluid.' He also comes out as Bi. I hope season 2 explores that.
@ㄉㄎㄉ • ꨆꨟꨮꩆ ꨣꨰꨕ loki in mythology canonically has 3 children, 2 of which he birthed himself. 1. is when he turned into a mare to seduce this giant's horse to hinder his work and no. 2 is when he ate a witch's heart and got pregnant because of it.
also he shapeshifts into a girl to pretend to be thor's handmaiden when all of asgard told him (thor) to pretend to be freyja to get his hammer back.
loki is canonically the queerest, most iconic, and most spiteful litlle bitch that has ever walked the earth and everyone loves him for it because they should
Loki is a classic example of not straight characters in many mythologies. (Hint there's a lot)
Loki even gave birth to a snake.
My first role after coming out as non-binary was Captain Hook, and I’ve never had more fun
I played him as a disgraced, gay former Shakespearean actor
GOALS
Icon.
The villains are just more interesting people than the heroes. Sleeping Beauty is literally just a cipher, and in the Lion King just holds up an unfair system designed to oppress "undesirables". I always found the Nazi correlation of Scar weird, because the system with Mufasa is literally oppression of hyenas and murder of thousands of animals justified by them. I also find it interesting how these villains have body types that are in direct contrast to the cookie cutter, extremely narrow body types accepted by Disney and that their heroes had. Ursula Vs Ariel, Snow White Vs maleficent, Scar Vs Mufasa and later Simba, Jafar Vs Aladdin. Gaston is also an interesting case because by exaggeration of the " desired" male physical traits, they make him undesirable.
I never took Mufasa's justification of eating animals as a justification of murder, because it is clearly part of how nature works in that setting and cannot be avoided - it is framed as part of the importance of respecting nature and acknowledging one's own mortality as part of a greater life, so it doesn't feel like a fake ideology.
On the other hand, the emargination of hyenas just because they are scavengers always bugged me (isn't that part of the circle of life, too?), and I sympathised with them. As well as with poor Zazu, so obviously abused.
You are right it is an unfair system in the lion king run by both Mufasa and Scar. Scar himself doesn't mind the monarchy because he wanted to be king himself. He wasn't bothered that hyenas were oppressed. What bothered him is that his brother had a privilege which he misses.
For me Scar is still the most interesting character because of his sarcasm and how smart he is. But you can't blame Mufasa for the unfair system when every lion we saw - hell even Simba - supports it
@@jacobodom8401 Yeah, I suppose it does. It just feels weird they had to choose a whole race of animals that's against the Circle of Life.
@@andreab380 hyenas kill lions in real life that's the reason for everything it's not that deep
@@adolfhipsteryolocaust3443 Yeah okay! It's just a bit (only a bit!) jarring, with the whole "life and death cycle, we all eat and get eaten" ideal.
I've long thought that Scar and Shere Kahn would have made a fabulous couple.
That will burn down the world during the break up.
"Everyone runs from Shere Kahn"
I absolutely love this idea
I just want an ASMR of them talking dirty to each other
I ship them for so looooooooooooooong
I accidentally hit this button while my phone was in my pocket, but decided that was a sign from the universe that your amazing work needs to get a, unfortunately low--if I get extra money I'll make a better one--monetary thanks for your amazing work!
Haha I'll take it, thank you for helping to make my videos possible!
No one can convince me that Gaston from Beauty and the Beast is NOT a conflicted gay man. His anxiety to marry and be SEEN with the most beautiful girl in town (casually the only one around who doesn't feel sexually attracted to him), his constant bad mood despite having everything, his need to show his masculinity all the time to the others, his worry about how others see him...
But, unlike the villains you mentioned, he IS part of the statu quo and wants to reinforce it (he encourages the people to kill the Beast, to lock Belle in, to get rid of everything strange, different and menacing to the closed minds... And they follow him as their leader with no question). That's why he's not likeble.
And the two protagonists, in this case, are the ones who oppose the system, who don't fit, who feel excluded and misunderstood... Much more relatable than almost all the other protagonists in Disney movies...
@gaby juen I've been spending the last 10 minutes trying to put this theory of Gaston into words. Someone in the comments said Gaston was " straight "....,
but I disagree as he gives the modern day 'incel' vibe to me .. and you verbalized my thoughts to perfection! Thank you
Yikes. Don't be biphobic.
@@cactus3510 Being biphopic means that I feel uncomfortable around bisexual people or that I discriminate them. It's a very harsh accusation and you shouldn't give it so lightly.
I just theorized that a FICTIONAL character is a closeted and conflicted gay man (since he doesn't seem to have a real attraction for women though he tries to marry at all costs someone "pretty" who doesn't like him but would make him look "good" in front of the society)
@@gabyjuen I meant the person above me, sorry. Guess I misclicked.
@@gabyjuen For the record, I agree with your original comment. It's a good take on the character.
No mention of Gaston?
Oh come on, between pretty plainly wanting belle as a status symbol beard, hangs out at a bar and wrestling with men, not even acknowledging the trio of blondes except to talk about himself. Nit to mention Beast as an aids allegory.
And let's not forget, the gayest thing ever, "I use antlers in all of my DEEECORAAATING"
Hes a DL masc4masc jock bear
See now Gaston I 100% buy as gay!
Well matt did say he wasnt going to mention every villain that fits the category. But if he did there is also Hades who is literally flaming and lives in the dark, and governor Ratcliff with his pig tails and fabulous garments
And what exactly was Gaston spitting?
I think he was simply a narcissist
@@pearluniverse7878 I can understand that. But given that he shows no actual attraction to others, his gay coding is the only notion of sexuality he has
I love villains, so happy this channel and video were recommended! Subscribed immediately.
Aw yay thanks! Long live villains!
@@MattBaumeHaha that works on a few levels 😂
I think in part it's because we're told for so much of our lives that we're evil threats to the heterosexual norm, that seeing a queercoded character do exactly that and have a great time doing so is hugely cathartic.
In a way it's left me feeling mixed about newer heroic gay characters. I'm pleased to see them of course but the narrative accepts them as normal in a way I don't really experience in real life.
John Waters is a legend. We got to meet him in the 1990s. He went to our college for a talk and showing of the lesser classic Polyester.
Wow. That's pretty sweet. I'd love to meet John Waters.
I live in Baltimore, he’s a regular sight in certain neighbourhoods here
I got to meet him too! He made fun of my outfit and let me hug him and sit next to him while he signed my book! He is one of my favorite people ever!
Love him and his work also. A friend of mine was hit on by him at a signing and was so excited about it. He felt so honored by it but he wasn't gay.
@@JenSell1626 My friend did. Probably because his wife would never let him. I would have if he was interested in me but no such luck. He'd probably be more interested in my books and werid trinkets collections.
as a lesbian i can confirm that villain characters are genuinely the best characters
Yas
"She has one emotion: pissed" I died lol
Same!
Omg the Robin Hood fanfic that everyone could hear, that story kills me
There were so many stories about the adventures of Skippy the rabbit
This is great! This reminds me of a quote from Rick and Morty, "Your Boos Mean Nothing, I've Seen What Makes You Cheer".
Before you feel bad about being labeled as bad or wrong, take a good look at the fella with the label maker. Chances are there's not a damn thing wrong with you.
I've quoted that before, I LOVE IT!!!
I never picked up on the 'gay aura' of these villains, and despite being straight i've related a lot to them, and I see some of their mannerisms in my own personality. Guess gay vibes are badass, gay or not
Some of them are just european, not gay.
It's not necessary for them to be gay anyone can act however they want
But back in the day yk the stereotypes
this guy is too gay and only thinking of gay 24/7 that's why he see gays in everything...i bet he can even tell 101 facts why a shrimp paste are gay in scientific way
"Gay vibes are badass, gay or not."
FACTS.
@@syntheticsilkwood2206 Just because people are £ucking a$$holes.
I've heard a great deal about some of the gay-coded villains before, like Scar, Prince John, and Ratigan, but I had never heard such a thorough analysis of the Evil Queen! Super interesting. One of my favorites who didn't get mentioned in this video is Dr. Facilier.
Pretty sure Dr Facilier has John Waters mustashe
As a nonbinary asexual person, I realize I tended to see myself in any character that was seen not actively pursuing a love interest (like most of the protagonists were) or who defied gender stereotypes. It's interesting to me to realize how I projected onto these characters as a kid despite how they were meant to be coded. I had no idea who I was back then but I knew damn well I related way more to the villains (and the "comic relief" characters) than to the protagonists. Who wants cookie cutter love when you can have power and express yourself genuinely?
100% agree
You scared me for a moment after "Who wants cookie cutter love when you can have POWER"!
Would infinitely prefer love to power. 😄And most of the protagonists aren't actually actively pursuing, but just sort of fall into having love interests. But I see what you mean. For someone whom love holds no sway the villains are going to be more relatable.
@@mcshadowj you should be scared
Big same here, I also loved and still love the villains and funny guys way more than supposed to, for the same reasons you do.
"I like the Evil Queen's scenes better than Snow White's." Well yeah, White has... no personality. She is the silent, characterless protagonist in a video game you're supposed to project yourself onto. And sadly this makes her the LEAST interesting of all Disney mains.
She's the kind of character that's great when she is a video game protagonist because you can look through their eyes and nearly terrible any other time when we have to watch them react to the world around them.
@@scaper8 It's why to me, if they want to make a good Hitman movie they need to NOT focus on 47. Have him in the background, the story is ABOUT him, but we follow the cop who's AFTER him. Of course they team up at the end for the big Hitman end level shootout, but til then only have 47 in the background in various disguises (NEVER have the camera make it obvious, it's only if you're paying attention) with the cop following clues while on 47's trail. You only show what 47 did in flashbacks. And of course it's later revealed that the cop's the one who's been feeding the ICA 47's missions, all in an attempt to stop some bio weapons deal of clones... or something.
@@JamesChessman You kidding, or serious? It's hard to tell just through text.
@@tyrongkojy They have a point. She has a very mild personality, but a personality nontheless
@@tyrongkojy I wasn’t really serious lol, but shy / quiet characters do get judged pretty bad like Bella in twilight, but I like the type of person...
I really hope you can talk about Judge Claude Frollo, his character's impact on people like me who were gay and raised religiously and dealt with alot of guilt because of our experiences in religion. He's my favorite villain and does a great job at exposing how damaging a strict religious upbringing can be.
his lust for Esmeralda was so cringy.
I love him more than the life itself
Idk he seems pretty genuine in his beliefs he's like the least gay out of all of the disney villains he's so obssessed with Esmeralda it's creepy
The weird thing is in the original novel he was actually a decent guy
@@chadfalardeau5396 Yeah, it's very tragic when you think about how far he falls into darkness in the end, that book was dark as hell 😅
Most Disney villains love themselves. They feel good in their skins and enjoy their plans and show it. Not like Disney heroes. Could you imagine a hero behaves like Ursula does? The heroes only get this love from others not from themselves. For example everyone says Snow White is the most beautiful woman there. Everyone else is allowed to think or say that. But how dare Snow White viewing herself as beautiful. Somehow the message is always "be humble, modest and polite. Wait for others to tell you you're beautiful, but don't you dare say it yourself". Therefore there's, as well, the message "selflove is bad / evil".
Hero: external love
Villain: selflove
One of the things about watching Snow White is how you realize it's very much the Evil Queen's movie. Snow White doesn't actually do much....sings to some wild animals, runs away, shacks up with seven men, then eats an apple and falls into a coma. Her entire story is reactive. Other than the song "Someday, my prince will come", I have no idea what she wants. And even that is a passive desire. She's not trying to find her prince. She's waiting for him. The Evil Queen, on the other hand, has a goal that she's proactive about carrying out. It's not a very nice or moral goal, but at least it's a goal.
Absolutely! People apparently loved the 7 Dwarves schtick back then but I do find her scenes with them a bit ... unexciting. The only scene with her that I really enjoy is when he's running through the forest screaming at every tree she sees!
@@MattBaume It's actually something I've noticed about a lot of the old Disney princesses. If you look at Sleeping Beauty and Cinderella, it's the same thing. The villains get to do stuff (Cinderella's stepmother and stepsisters, Maleficent), and the sidekick characters get to be entertaining (the mice and maybe the Fairy Godmother for Cinderella, the good fairies for Sleeping Beauty), but the main characters get to sit around being virtuous and waiting.
Cinderella doesn't even get to save herself, like she does in a lot of the other versions. She's locked in the cellar and the mice have to steal the key. (In the Grimm story, she seduces the Prince like 3 times before he shows up with the slipper, managing to evade her (living) father, and in the Rogers and Hammerstein musical, she hides in the garden when the Prince comes with the slipper, and then after the stepsisters have failed to make it fit, barges in, and demands she be allowed to try, presenting the other slipper as well.
I don't know if it was just because Walt Disney Studios was a pretty conservative place and Disney had some pretty old fashioned values, and he didn't want his heroines to be too assertive, but it's really something that you notice if you look at the early female protagonists, especially if you compare them to the male ones....Pinocchio, Bambi, Dumbo, even the little kid in Song of the South, all get to be active and move the plot forward. The only female protagonist before Mary Poppins in 1964 who actually gets to do anything interesting is Alice in Alice in Wonderland.
I do like them more as I get older, the characters having fun just being themselves. Kind of makes me think of how I grew into a teenager I became increasingly sarcastic, my humour based a lot on exaggeration to point out how ridiculous something is, which I never thought about as connected to camp.
It is also a whole granted thing that I was in denial to myself until I was a good deal older, but I do think that I adopted some parts.
Hbomberguy sent me. Subbed. Looking forward to binging your work.
Oh my god, you’re not gonna be disappointed!!
@renharris283 I have no doubt! I love discovering a great channel with tons of content to binge.
Oh yeah, that clown that's ok with content theft if it's hasan.
@kelp7060 Hasan allows anyone to repost his content. Hell, he's made a community out of it. Wtf are you talking about? Lol. If Hasan wants to give his own content away, then he's free to do so. What are you alluding that hbomberguy has to do with it, exactly?
@@PoeInTheDitch My comment isn't exactly hard to figure out, mate. hasan steals content all the time and hbomb treats it like that's fine, which is hypocritical. Go watch hasan debate ethan on this. It's very clear hasan believes that everyone's stuff should be up for grabs. hasan has also said horrible things and lies constantly.
"but no villain does camp like a disney villain" i was just about to mention Chancellor palpatine from the star wars prequels... but star wars is disney owned now, so that theory still holds true.
The muscle? Daddy issues? They are always more interesting? Or perhaps because they have reasons such as getting bullied and left out, and we relate ✨💅🏻
For me, it's a combo of more interesting and the fact that you can tell the actors are just having SO MUCH FUN in the roles! That translates into a GREAT performance and it makes us enjoy them all the more :)
Daddy/mommy issue is cringe
villains are so interesting 🤔 i love hearing their back stories
@@lilacghoste8366 Ah yes, a parental figure causing someone a lasting emotional damage is so cringe, amirite
@@jagodadelega8130 no , the term or slang is cringe.
Leaving a comment to say thank you for this video. Hbomberguy helped me see it among your videos and I never got to watch it, but I was subscribed to you already. I am now interested in seeing Robin Hood in particular. Keep up your great work! 😊
The villains are often the only characters with self determination.
Well, I must admit that Evil Queen was always a cartoon crush.
When it comes to European Cinema there are some really great old films including homosexuality not in a villainous way and actually with very nice, interesting and classy characters.
I'm the worst at picking up coding. All these villains that were apparently just screaming gay never once put the thought into my head that they were gay. I had to learn about character coding in my late 20s before I noticed it. Their sexualities never even cropped up in my mind.
Matt, I think Lady Dimitrescu from Resident Evil 8 can be read as a house mother. She has traditionally masculine qualities like height and strength with exaggerated female garb and is the matronly figure in charge of three 'daughters'
Dude I have no idea what ur talking about and I’m glad that I don’t know lol
Ahhh!!! I haven’t played that yet, but I’ve seen pics and reviews, and from what I’ve seen you’re RIGHT
And the internet is head over sharp heels for her. :D
Tall girls rejoicing at being represented in media as a sexy character and this person has to steal their thunder by calling Lady D DL masculine.
@@ANTSEMUT1 Why are you saying masculine women are a bad thing? This is an inclusive environment where we accept all forms of gender expression, including women with traditionally masculine qualities.
I'm not queer but what I love the most about Disney villains is they have this "fuck everyone" attitude.
I strive to be as savage as they are when responding to stupid annoying people.
Their confidence is also really admirable.
The villains are usually witty and has a great sense of depressing humor too which I really love.
They rarely gets angry, they're basically unbothered.
Who won't love a badass, fancy, powerful, witty and funny character?
They're basically the embodiment of things that people strive to be but can't because of different reasons.
Love it
only thing i disagree with is they often are very bothered and angry, but that's not always a bad thing. they are most definitely iconic and badass
I started watching this out of curiosity and ended with a tear in my eye.
I'm pretty far off from what one would call normal where I'm from, so hearing about Crystal and the bar story and just all that is so inspiring and wonderful to hear. I've been struggling all my life with striving to be loved and i guess to be "perfect" and honestly i think this has given me the push i needed.
Thank you soooo much for this video and for sharing those important stories that should definitely be taught about more❤️
The comments about the defying of the status quo reminded me of the hunchback. I don’t think we necessarily dislike Judge Frollo but we acknowledge him many times as being one, if not, the most evil villain. Yes! He does have a deep voice but he is a man, he lusts over a woman and is actually trying to keep the status quo, which is based in discrimination and hatred of a minority. I love Hellfire but the vibe it gives is so different than any other villain song.
This is why Disney movies beginning with Frozen seem so lacking nowadays - no campy villain. And no campy villain to means unmemorable movie. Almost. I mean I love Zootopia. Someone put gays in charge of the animation department so we can have fun villains again, please.
Also make villains evil for evil sake. Sure a little sympathy isn't bad but come on, not every villain has to have a tragic past. Give us vilians who love being evil cuz it's fun for them, make them steal the show not just the thrown
I really enjoyed Raya and I love Zootopia, but yeah I totally agree with this and the first reply. We can definitely use some new snazzy villains outside the cartoon shows (Magica De Spell for example is fabulous and she was pretty recent on Disney XD)
There hasn't been an iconic level Disney villain since Hades, with the exception of Dr. Facilier.
Well... going by the first Frozen (since I haven't seen II) Elsa, originally was supposed to be the villain. Again, an unmarried woman in a position of power (and no romantic interest), she had to hide who she was (until bursting forth with Let It Go, which wound up being too good to be a villain song). Possible doubling up with Hans pretending to be interested in Anna (and the latter eventually decking him....)
Zootopia was made by gays tho ... gay furries
Here from Hbguy. Im so excited. Thank you for the wonderful content
“Yes, you and everyone else on FA” just killed me. 🤣
I was looking for this comment, I feel attacked, seen, judged, ridiculed and called out hahaahaha
@@kitsunefire1 same
I feel called out :P
Attacked honestly
Yup, same
When I was a little child I was obsessed with Simba, but as I grew older I started liking Scar more and more, I really saw myself in him, even if I didn't understand that at the time
Hallo from Hbomberguy, great video and looking forward to seeing more of your content
I think the ironic thing about camp is that, even though it's based on artifice, can be a method of self-expression. There are drag performers who have used the art form to explore their own identity through a character. I believe camp appeals to the queer community because it allows a historically repressed group of people to express themselves freely and openly.
It's always struck me as funny that Prince John was queercoated when the real Richard the Lionhearted was gay.
I'm so glad Harry sent me here. Great video!
Also as a “falsetto child” I often felt the need to defend my obsession with the Disney villain. Chalking it up to “they always had more fun & flair + there would be no movie without them.”
Lady Tremaine and mother Gothel are my favorites but their kind of tame. Their goals aren't to gain power to rule over anyone just gain a personal advantage like wealth or youthfulness. They both gate-keep and gaslight emotionally without magic powers ( except for Cinderella 3 and rapunzels hair ( or the rapunzel series)) their victims.
I think when you're a child, you like the princess, but when you grow up you identify more with the villains because you understand why they’re so pissed
i preferred the villains even as a child. Ursula reminded me of my grandma and i wanted to cuddle her.
today she's still my favourite for different reasons, but, aside from Djinnie and some other sidekicks (especially the grumpy ones), none of the "good" characters ever appealed to me.
I prefered the villains because they were more fun haha. Scar was my weird childhood crush for the sheer amount of sarcastic comments. He got away with saying shit i was always too shy for
Nah, I have to say that I prefer the leads (no matter if they are princesses or not) even as a grown-up.
Belle, Jane Porter, Madellaine and Mirabel in particular are my home girls, and I just adore some male characters like Quasimodo and Bruno as well.
What about the villains though, you ask.
Well, they do play an important role in the story, and it can be fun to watch them sometimes, but I can't sympathize with them...
Being bisexual with a lot of friends who are either bisexual or straight up homosexual, let me say you did an amazing analysis of this. Honestly, i had some feeling watching these movies I had a feeling, BUT never truly thought much about this until this video......great job. Keep up the great work.
Same I'm bisexual
Bi Culture
That moment when you realize you grew up to uncle Scar... sans the fratricidal tendencies.
Well, nobody's perfect. /s
Are you already planning to kill your Brother?
@@hassanalkhalaf1115 Well I did say without the fratricidal tendencies so no, but also because I don't have a brother and I'm the oldest siblings.
I'm also the weird uncle that all the kids love.
I’m thinking about it now, and I think an important element of camp is that it’s performative, but performative in a way that emphasizes personal enjoyment. It’s doing something socially transgressive because you like it, and for no other reason. And the transgression can be either big or small, it just has to be visible and fun.
Okay, so I'm a descendant of King John of England (the evil prince from Robin Hood) and I find it unimaginably HILARIOUS that they queercoded wicked Grandpa King John, when Uncle Richard (King Richard the Lion Heart, who was away in the crusades for most of the film) was as gay as gay can be. Uncle Richard and the King of France were... VERY close.
Daaaammmmnnnnn that's some interesting info
What fascinates me is the way that pretty much every modern (heck anything post the late 1500s) Robin Hood story associates him with King Ricard and Prince John, and portrays the return of Richard the Lionheart as the happy ending..... but historically that happened in 1194 and then Richard died 5 years later and John because King anyways. So in the context of the story the 'Happily Ever After' is actually 'Happy for about 5 year tops, maybe 6 at a push'.
Those Crusaders "were inflamed with the fires of Sodom." At least that's what some of the contemporary bishops said. No wonder the crusades were so popular. And hello cousin. Grandpa John was fertile.
Love how you refer to historical figures as grandpa and uncle /gen
@@sleekoduck whazzup cuz!
Ursula will always be my Queen. She’s such an Iconic character.
Same
Yess she’s so interesting and the “poor unfortunate souls” song was absolutely and fitting for her
Facts
hey i came here from hbomberguy and i didnt expect to be so moved by a video essay tonight, youre truly insightful and i appreciate that a lot. ive also found the queer history to be very interesting and emotional, i nearly cried
Same here. I also showed my sister Matt's stuff and now she loves him.
This is one of the best videos that I've seen on queer coding. I've heard this topic discussed before, but I learned a lot and I really appreciated the new insights you have.
I recall reading something in one of my sociology classes about how the "Disney Theme" often incorporated a female trifecta of the young, vulnerable protagonist the salacious or provocative "femme fatale" villain and the wise grandmother figure who was herself sexually unthreatening. I'd argue that Disney started to stray from this formula around "Pocahontas" when they have a male villain but there were some decidedly queer or effeminate things about him if you take any time to look so it's interesting.
As a straight, I didn't really understand queercoding (have only heard the term), so this was really fascinating to watch. There's always room to learn!
Same here.
I did know that Ursula's looks were based on a drag queen and that some male villains were a bit effeminate, but I thought that people still were exaggerating.
However, this video has managed to finally explain it to me.
So I'm sure that some Disney villains (Horned King, Lady Tremaine, Bill Sykes, Shan Yu, McLeach, Mother Gothel, King Candy, Prince Hans) don't fit into this.
But now I at least get what people are talking about...
@Furienna yes exactly! I knew about Ursula too, but the concept of making a female antagonist "butch" to seem more threatening never crossed my mind.
Matt, I think your channel has the distinction of reliably having the best, most positive and enthusiastic comment section on youtube. What a joy to watch and then read everyone having a good time.
Three things, I think John Waters should direct an Ursula prequel. Elenore of Aquitaine is known to be a Queen of Shade, and Prince John's tantrum reminded me of the saying "Anyone who has to tell people they are the king is not a king, if you are the king people know."
Sleeping Beauty was new. All the little girls in our neighborhood demanded I make masks (I was the artsy one). We all ran around roaring as DRAGONS.
The man eating plant Audrey 2 in Little Shop of Horrors, he literally eats men.
So do I, baby!!
I just find the men EDIBLE. :)
And...women.
bi and nonbinary icon
Same.
Spoilers: She also eats Audrey 1 then takes over the Earth😈
Villains are often also shown as the ones not feeling romantic/sexual love towards anyone and that's where aromantic and asexual people find their lacking representation
Exactly
OMW. Thank you. I had no idea why I loved villains growing up, but now I get.
As a girl raised in a very traditional and religious environment, I did not appreciate the status quo. But now that you explain it, it makes sense. I wanted to tear it down, so that's why i could relate to villains.
Being punished by the end of the movie for perceived sinfulness is called "compensatory morality." Thank you one film unit I had in English 101. I love villains too, they flout social conventions and frankly know how to have a good time.
Every time I hear about the Hays code, I get sad about how a single piece of rubbish regulation helped put us back 50 years in social development
McCarthy and Cohn caused more damage than the Hays code ever did and they were both closeted gay men. If anyone ever deserved to die from AIDS, it was Roy Cohn.
@@sleekoduck A combined effort all round.
@@sleekoduck Wait, wheres the source for this? Ive never heard that Mcarthy was gay before
I agree, but mostly disagree. Cinema and comics (visual narrative) would have lost so much sophistication that it cultivated in getting around the codes. Restriction breeds creativity and authenticity.
@@Elvenboyslut If by 'sophistication' you mean using marginalized people (people of colour, LGBTQ+ people, disabled people) as lazy code for villains, sure we got that. We also lost decades of progress in LGBTQ+ representation and BIPOC representation. But I'm sure that we marginalized people were a reasonable sacrifice for some tropes to be born.
I like how you mentioned how much fun these villains are having as they go bigger, bolder, and more aggressively against the mainstream. Even though they all end up dieing or getting trapped in the end, they had the *most* fun doing it. If I end up going out against my will, I hope I go out with as big of a bang as these villains do.
(I don't mean to sound overtly aggressive or scary with that last sentence, I just mean that I would want to go out fighting for reform with as much drama and freedom to show who I am as thr villains do)
I still don't understand how The Haunting got away with having a pretty openly bisexual woman whom nothing bad really happens to.
It came out only at the very beginning of the end of the code.