I used to think the same, but then I thought a little more about it. A sleep swamp would be more of a pain in the ass or a chore than a challenge. Sleep doesn’t harm you like poison or rot does. So you’d basically just be traveling through it, pass out, be stuck for a minute, rinse and repeat. It would just end up being tedious.
@@Etticos. well maybe there could be a fun consequence for falling asleep or a unique area effect like at the ancient tree forest... like every time you fall asleep you spawn 'nightmare' monsters or make certain enemies stronger... or, if you want to be really evil, steal runes...
@@PettyCrow-n9c yes, this!! I find myself not enjoying some of their DLCs because, while the obscure, ambiguous narrative & lore works for the base game, but DLCs are where you’re supposed to scratch that itch you left in base game. It’s not something that should be made entirely separate from the main story, otherwise you just have two different places with frustratingly occluded information. There’s supposed to be that sort of “call and answer,” where the base game poses questions, and the DLC answers most of those questions. Some things should be left a mystery, sure, but the DLC shouldn’t just feel like a new mess of disconnected stories and ambiguous thematic and architectural connections that people will call headcanon because it’s not explicitly written on the wall in big letters in crayon.
@@LeggoMyGekko I just don't get how you have that reaction. What I got from the DLC was: "Oh, so that's why Marika hates horns so much." "Oh, that's where Omens come from." "Oh, that's where the fingers come from." "Oh, that's why Placidusax is missing a couple heads." "Oh, so this is the missing piece of land in the middle of the map." "Oh, that's what Miquella was doing all this time." "Oh, that's why Malenia attacked Radahn." And finally: "Oh, that's how Marika came to power." Like, the DLC clears up so much and mostly even in a very on the nose way. For all of this to work so well, this weird other world that has been cut off works very well. It gives us a window into the past without time travel.
I think the problem is that the dlc would have been much better as a 2nd game with 2 or even 3 times the content, there was just too many threads to wrap up with they just didn’t have the time for.
I thought that stumbling into st Trina and getting the request from her to put her other half out of misery and fight essentially for her was amazing, and one of the key points I thought gave me reason to want to kill consort radahn from a story perspective.
@Tohlemiach I feel the issue is she doesn't really have a presence for being the other half of the most powerful god. Which is sorta the point? But she has no real information in the base game or dlc so in a way she is wasted but serves her role well.
@@yourfriendly609 yeah I actually partially agree, I think she was my favorite story element of the dlc, but I would have loved a bit of a covenant like system where we could have gone back after each significant step of the story to receive something rather than just the end.
Your argument would make sense if doing Trina's quest was what unlocked the Radahn+Miquella fight, but no. Radahn+Miquella will always be there and it will be a poorly designed fight that has no second phase.
@@zito2526 bros mad, also if you actually read what I said, I highlighted “from a story perspective” completely different then the mechanics of the fight or accessing it.
I spent my vanilla playthrough and all my DLC one, trying to learn more stuff about St. Trina. I rushed in the DLC to find St. Trina,found the catacombs before the seal was broken even, and overall I was let down. I thought St. Trina or the area around them would be "more" Still love the game but damn man lol.
Everyone is saying she doesn't need to be a boss fight, but boss fights aren't always the pinnacle of a concept. St. Trina was wasted by not being as integral to the plot of the dlc as she should have been. Very little influence anywhere in the dlc, BARELY any sleep weapons or items, and they aren't even good. The bossfight leading to her doesn't even use sleep, it uses frostbite because "ghost flame" (even tho it's just a bunch of corpses). She didn't NEED to be a bossfight to be better. St. Trina should have had much more influence on the dlc than she did. The story should have given more room for her than it allowed.
Saint Trina's sphere was sleep, but when she was cast down there she came to embody death. Since Miquella's journey is a parallel to Marika, I speculate that the Gloam Eyed Queen who embodied death was once a part of Marika, just like how Trina was once a part of Miquella.
Too simple ... Marika doesn't have Radagon yet when she becomes a goddess. There is no trace of him before the conflict with the Carians, but we see that only Marika and Miquella got two parts, and the other thing they got in common is the fact that they build a tree. I think Radagon and Saint Trina are the result of the creation of a Giant Tree. The Gloam Eyed Queen was a Nox and so a numen as Marika, probably an empyrean as her. She covered with the Black Moon of the Nox, like an eclipse, the sun of the fell god of the giants (and dragons), usurping their power. But the Universal Will punished her kindgom with the fall of Astel, allowing the Hornsent to make Marika the new goddess. She has been killed by Mariketh. The Universal Will send Astel cause the Elden Beast wasn't here during the time of the GEQ
@@jhank0cean This is not contradictory to what I say. Moreover, you do not provide any element to explain that Marika and Miquella are the only ones to inhabit a second entity and where they would come from, and why there is no proof of Radagon before the Erdtree ...
@@PaulStackhouse Lmao what. Yes it is. You literally said "Marika doesn't have Radagon when she becomes a goddess." That suggests they are separate entities when in fact nothing in game suggests this. Marika & Radagon were always one. Miquella & St Trina were always one. Radagon is the one that is obsessed with the Golden Order & the Erdtree. Even when Radagon arrives, he arrives *_"at the head of a great golden host"_* *_Everything associated with Gold links back to Marika. It was always: "Radagon is Marika"_* To think otherwise is head cannon.
Anything but another sleep straight sword… like it looks like a thrusting sword so that could have been a cool option, or even better make it a light greatsword?
Hey Zio, I recommend to watch the lore vids from Scum Mage Infa if you havent, i was disappointed in the lore of the DLC until watching some of his vids and peeps like Nameless Singer, Kitetales, Jack the Mimic, Zayf the Scholar. I feel they have found a pretty solid amount of things to stoke my lore fire again. The stuff with St. Trina is the secrets of "Jar Saints", Saint Romina (Bud, flower, purple, saint, poison and rot link) and the "Gloam Eyed" Putrescent Knight. We have connections to the purple Grave Violets and Gravebords/Twinbirds, and we have the spectral rings of light connecting to Miquella. A lot of it is subtle, but that was the case in base game too for many things
as much as its fun to watch lore videos, the game doesnt touch 99% of what the people find and ultimately so much of it remains theories with no answer, always, in every game.
@@marsupialsr Yeah, thats the problem with ER, DS answered a lot in comparison, only Velka we have almost nothing but its fine to have one aspect being in the dark, but ER almost everything has no definitive answer.
Lore guys: Did you name the Putrescence knight "Gloam eyed Knight" in files because he was meant for the GEQ or because he had glowing eyes or because you wanted to troll us? MiyaFCKNzaki: ~yes~
Imagine saying Dark Souls failed because it didn’t being the crow goddess or the goddess of guilt into its dlcs. Elden Ring gave us the most information about its setting than any other setting. I know you’re not calling the game a failure, but this kind of nitpick was never present with previous fromsoft games because we knew not to expect this information to begin with
Yeah the fact that they never expanded on Velka is a CRIME. I forgot how disappointing those Dark Souls DLC's were tbh. Nobody liked how Gale was the final boss. Honestly should've been Velka
I mean Velka already had an entire area of the base game that is related to her, the painted world. DS1 is probably the worst game you couldve chosen to illustrate this point because its DLC is extremely straightforward with its explanations. We learn what happend to all the knights of Gwyn, where the darkness of man comes from, how humanity works, what happened to Oolacile, etc. Id say proportionally it explains way way more of the base games's mysteries than SOTE does. SOTE practically raises more questions than it answers. Hell one of its core remembrance bosses and second last boss of the game has almost zero lore (Romina). Imagine if Kalimeet was never spoken about by Hawkeye Gough and you just find him and kill him with no buildup.
This channel lets me down. What were people expecting of St. Trina? I was very satisfied with both characters (Miquella and St. Trina because I didn't have unrealistic expectations). I genuienly don't know what people even wanted. St. Trina had a cut quest, they put it back into the game.
@@tiredasf107 NOT EVEN TRUE. Godwyn had a bit of new lore in the catacombs + his Death Knights. Wtf are you people on about. Do you guys even played the dlc?
No one can convince me that FromSoft had this DLC plot mapped out while the base game was out. It’s like a whole other team made the DLC. Lack of Godwyn and Torrent follow up is abysmal and cannot be forgiven. 😢
I feel like there was a small amount that was pre-planned, like Messmer and something with Radahn, but overall a lot of the elements don't fit nearly as well as they should have. Especially when you start trying to construct a concrete timeline. Fromsoft normally leaves some puzzle pieces out, but this is definitely the game where it feels like the most pieces are missing. Maybe to the point where certain things get frustrating. Still love the game, but I am much more frustrated at ER lore than DS lore.
@@liarwithagun To me Messmer should have been the final boss of the game, he fit the role perfectly. Also his boss battle was tons more fair than what we got.
Regarding the Putrescent Knight, we know its the skeleton of a horse riding it's own rotting flesh. Now who is the horse we see the Miquellestor riding in the pre-release image? None but best boy Torrent, the spectral steed. Which makes some amount of sense considering Ranni makes mention of torrent's previous master (tho it WOULD make far more sense if the boss went by the original name and it was Gloam Eyed Queen related, considering Melina gives you Torrent's whistle but who knows, maybe now we can tie Ranni and Miquella and/or St Trina together) Given how often the game distinguishes between spirit/projected versions of characters vs their real counterparts (Renalla, Morgot, Mohg, Ranni, etc in the base game and Igon in the DLC), we know that a spirit construct, for lack of a better term, can simultaneously exist alongside a physical presence. Taking all of that into consideration, I strongly believe that the putrescent knight IS TORRENT. His physical form at least
I was more disappointed that Putresent Knight didn't have any sleep status effect attacks. I wanted a boss that caused that along with one that caused frenzied flame. We got frenzied flame but very little enemies cause sleep and still no bosses cause sleep.
yeah good point, there was so much we expected from ds3 dlcs that we didnt get at all. At the same time tho, I don't think people were disappointed about a lack of londor in the same was that people are disappointed in a lack of st trina
The DLC made me compromise. I wanted rotted godwyn body possessed , I compromised, I got mohgs that gets occupied by radahn then looks just like radahn (apparenly with horns if zoomed in on screenshots). I wanted some expansion on the eclipse and why it didnt work so miquella had to go to the shadow realm, I compromised and I got mohg being a victim. I wanted the gloam eyed queen, I compromise... I got a half finished boss... see where I'm going with this?
I feel like maybe a lot of these concepts that we all expected to see more of in the DLC (St. Trina/Dreams, Godwyn, Gloam Eyed Queen) were initially were going to be explored more, but i feel maybe they decided to keep these things for the sequel
This whole DLC feels like a big cop out. By introducing the concept of Miquella casting off everything about himself, the writers get away with not following up any of his story lines.
I think it's actually a perfect culmination of his storylines though. Miquella realized that it was the curse of the sin and "law of causality" within the Golden Order that was prohibiting him from actually saving anyone. His efforts could only go so far because the foundation was faulty. So, all of his worldly, spiritual, and bodily ties to this Old Order had to go and he needed to transcend as a new god for a completely new age. And that's what he does in the Land of Shadow.
The thing that bothers me to this day is: why did they not add the merchant sleep quest item from cut content? Having to go around to each enemy and sleep them to fill out a bestiary would have made the lacklustre sleep weapons seem alright. They could have made that Trina's quest, so that we actually get to engage with her. On a personal note, deep purple is my favourite colour, and no deep purple robes makes me so sad. 😩
@@MrTask4ce I agree, but the items were already cut content, they just would had to change it up a bit. Maybe make Thiollier tell you to gather dream mist, or whatever in order to restore Trina, or something. Trina's "quest" is so hollow, it put me to sleep (pun intended). I would have welcomed nearly anything in place of what we got.
You literally answered your own question: it was cut content. They cut it for a reason. Whatever reason that is, they cut it because they didn't want it in the game, from the game's release.
@@marchmelloowA lot of stuff gets cut simply due to time constraints and not because it's bad. Are you saying that you prefer the game WITHOUT an actual merchant questline and bestiary? An actual quest that showcases the link beween madness and sleep would have been really cool. I'm just saying the items were already made, they could have easily re-purposed them.
@@shiftgaming101 If they didn't bring it back for the DLC, then it was something they didn't want in the game in the first place. If they thought it was something the game should have, they would have added it in the DLC.
Absolutely. The entire DLC feels rushed and it was just MEH storywise. Main bosses with no voicelines and cutscenes, Radahn just recycled as a bossfight, the whole Miquella story just told through Leda and her crew. He should have had Ranni level of involvemnt, even if we do turn on him and end up defeating and killing him in the end.
I just wish the boss fight was more substantial. I was hoping for a sleep-powered St. Trina boss fight, with her fighting as a floating sword wielder. I do love the poetry of what we got, but yeah it could've been even stronger.
St.Trina was cool,im glad they werent just a boss fight but i wish the area was more fleshed out like you mentioned.That was my personal biggest dissapointment in the game which applys to multiple areas in the dlc,it feels somewhat rushed which it honestly probably was,the deathblight area was the biggest disappointment ever.
When I first saw the trailer for the DLC I spotted the character with the Dancing Blade of Ranah weapon and her doing the ash of war of Unending Dance, I thought we were gonna get some lore about the blue dancer who, to my knowledge, trained Malenia. About this topic, the blue dancer charm and the warrior starting class comes to mind.
Yes, St. Trina deserved much more than they got... at least Godwin got his own Knights we could fight and had a really awesome armor set. Even though what we all wanted in both cases (St. Trina & Godwin) was an epic boss fight with them. Now, that said.. a missed opportunity doesn't mean it's bad, I still thoroughly loved Scadu of the Erdtree. Silver lining though, we could possibly see Godwin in a future expansion, St. Trina... not so much. Cheers Zio! 🍻
Its because dlc was rushed they don't have plan for dlc but fans was eager to get dlc they start to make. In Dlc many places are empty and it take long time to get to some locations that kinda hidden so it will take some time to find, that will keep players spend time in dlc so the game looks bigger. They come up quick ideas to finish off some npc stories but still for 2 years time this type of content they made is pretty amazing this dlc just stand alone game.
*St. Trina serves an important purpose lore-wise:* she showcases how two entities sharing one body can have entirely conflicting opinions and goals. Before the DLC, a common interpretation was that Radagon was a "kill switch" parasite that the Greater Will forced on Marika. That he was the Golden Order personified and was there to make sure she aligns with what the Greater Will wants. But after the DLC, St. Trina makes it clear to us that no, just because they share a body doesn't mean they have to be in agreement with each other, and Radagon has very different stances to Marika, much like how St. Trina wants the opposite of Miquella, in terms of godhood. I think she was purposefully included in this manner, because understanding that is important for deciphering what's going on with Radagon and Marika.
I also think Miquella cast her aside because he saw the conflict that arose between Radagon and Marika, and decided it was better not to have her along for the ride.
I feel like this theme was already immediately present in the base game with marika breaking the ring while radagon in the same body is trying to repair it. Radagon wanted order and marika went along with it until it was too late. In order for order to work something must be subjugated, and in the case of two opposing gods in one body marika was the one that was subjugated.
@@eprimchad2576 The problem is we lacked understanding of just how independent they could be, and we assumed it only makes sense if Radagon was effectively a parasite inserted onto Marika to carry out the desires of the Greater Will. St. Trina makes it clear that no, they can be quite independent of another WITHOUT one needing to be a tool for an Outer God.
For me the whole dlc story was really underwhelming, but i already excepted to be disappointed when miyazaki said that it was during the base game and not after, meaning, it doesn’t matter what was in it, the game ends the same way, anyways it was a really big miss opportunity not choosing to elaborate more on Miquella (actually showing us his journey) they cut and discarded a lot of plot points and lore from the base game, but yeah that’s what happens when u base a game on a story depicting the world thats already “over” like star wars with their “newest triology” Great video as always! Thanks
Agreed, like the even baited us with a picture of Miquella riding torrent, as well as a whole freeking cutscene that was in the trailer which showed Miquella, AND WE NEVER SEE IT AGAIN!
Literally take a look at all the comments you definitely are not the only one. But yet when it dropped people were calling it a 10/10.. Ive been of this opinion since i first played it. For me the dlc does not live up to the base game at all
The DLC let us down on every major character from the base game. Miquella, Trina, Radahn, Mohg, all of them are just an incredibly mid blur in my brain now. Very unfortunate what Miyazaki thought we would accept here.
I don't want to fight her a real quest or real dialogue will do it for me to give her just three line it is stupidly unfair, I feel like they are so lazy to give her anything. she was the most suitable person to give us a more background about miquella & radahn.. I want her to tell me about what is the meaning of him become a god how to start your journey to stop them give you some real information and guidance that will help you reshape the story to make it better than this empty story of miqualla and his consort
Sure mystery is fun in fronsofts games, as it lets the players find out about the lore through items, interactions, endings (in some cases). But the St Trina content gave us near nothing. Yeah they don't have to give us everything, but if you're going to add a character who is a major character in the story surround Miquella, give us actual content that lets us engage with her story.
The only thing that’s disappointing is that we didn’t get a single sleep-status inflicting boss. Would’ve been interesting aesthetically as well as gameplay-wise. They could’ve given this boss a brutal grab attack that you would’ve had to manage the status to escape.
Agreed. Idk if this is people’s first from soft game or what but there are plenty of important characters we don’t get a ton of into on. Like the painter in dark souls 3 who is arguably one of the most important characters in that game and we know nothing about her. Maybe even less than miquella or at Trina.
Of course, mystery is fine and what we expect, but was it necessary for the character to be pointless in context of the gameplay/Miquella’s story for the sake of mystery? That’s the question
Loved the St. Trina questline. My biggest gripes with the DLC are the backwards step that ER took with multiplayer (which i was hoping to be addressed but wasnt), the lack of Godwyn/deathblight. I would be way more ok with the latter if doing St. Trinas quest gave us a secret ending or something along those lines.
We should have received sleep based incantations. The sleep pots literally say “enhanced by St. Trina’s incantations”, which made me think we’d be getting some in the DLC. I also agree with everyone else that we should have gotten a sleep weapon besides a straight sword. But even then, if they were so hell bent on making ANOTHER sleep straight sword, why couldn’t they have given it a more unique ash of war?? 😭
There wasn't a big twist concerning the bosses this time around. The big twist was with Marika, and it was a pretty damn good one. I think it would have great to add a bit of "non-canon" endings, like following Miquella, or maybe creating some concoction to put them into eternal sleep, or something. Just seemed like a lot of missed opportunities.
I loved Trina’s story. I was 100% into it. Broken dying goddess that was Miquella’s love and kindness. Broken and desperate and still giving comfort to the dead around her. The reason you find her sword in Cailid because she was the one horrified by what Miquella’s schemes resulted in.
I think these are valid criticisms of the St. Trina content, and despite fan disappointment, it’s pretty unlikely FromSoftware will add more to Elden Ring. That said, this concept would be an amazing fit for a mod-and it could even align with FromSoftware’s existing themes. For instance, imagine a mod that introduces a new story quest triggered after defeating the final boss in the DLC and collecting St. Trina’s Flower. Upon reloading the area, where St. Trina’s body once lay, there's now a decayed, dark plant mass pulsing with electric purple energy and a collectible item on top. When the player picks it up, they’re engulfed in a purple gas (using the poison proc animation but in purple for simplicity). This gas transforms the area’s lighting, and players must fight their way back up or down through the fissure. At the large, open area before the jumping sections, a new boss appears: Dark Dreamer St. Trina. Picture her as a tall, elegantly wiry woman-flower hybrid. Using the current St. Trina model’s color palette, but with heightened contrast, she would strike a balance of beauty and horror. Her petal arrangement could resemble a Victorian-style dress, while her lower body is a decaying, greyish-white root she slithers on like Medusa. She might have a hauntingly beautiful face but with Venus Flytrap-like hands tipped with venomous claws and too many fingers. Her attacks could include sleep-inducing gas released from her flowing sleeves, putting players into an "eternal nightmare" if exposed repeatedly-a mechanic that echoes Miquella’s heart-stealing effect. To tie in the storyline with the Putrescent Knight, she could summon minions like skeletons or those ooze creatures, reinforcing the theme of sleep and decay in the Lands Between. A standout attack might have her sultrily slither over to the player, lean in, and blow a sleep-inducing flame or dust attack, making the allure of sleep feel almost irresistible. Upon entering her second phase, Dark Dreamer St. Trina could begin summoning nightmare creatures, distorted versions of familiar enemies. Imagine recolored wolves, skeletons, or goo creatures with an eerie purple haze or maybe translucency to make them appear ghostly and surreal. These nightmare creatures could act differently from normal, perhaps moving erracticly like the cemetery shades, as if they were barely real. When defeated, they could fade rather than die, only to respawn a few seconds later, giving the sense that the player is being haunted by the nightmare itself. The concept of Dark Dreamer St. Trina as a dark necromancer is also a clever inversion of Miquella’s nature. Whereas Miquella inspires love and followership, Trina commands an undead allegiance-a twisted, nightmarish devotion that corrupts rather than comforts. This adds a darker layer to her character and emphasizes the duality between the siblings. In this phase, the environment could also subtly distort, with colors warped or “cracks” in reality flickering to reveal nightmare landscapes behind them. The longer the battle continues, the more nightmare creatures appear, intensifying the fight and heightening the urgency to escape the endless nightmare. I think I'm gonna go sketch this out.
The whole dream boss fight would have been great and i had an out there concept. The fortisax fight being in the dream was also connected to another very significant character, Godwin, and as we know miquella had a connection with godwin and a big theory was godwin was the final boss. Imagine if st trinas quest was to somehow return godwins soul to his body to combat miquella and radan. Maybe throughout trinas quest we learn that trina came close but was unable to complety resurrect godwin thanks to being discarded from miquella. What if after we defeat miquella we could return with his crown to a "dead" trina and trigger a boss fight where your in the same arena as the putrid night but the final secret boss turns out to be godwin in all his brilliance. After he is defeated we return from st trinas dream with a final cutscene that could show us talking with st trina as she wilts away thanking us for stopping miquella and properly laying all the demi gods to rest that miquella was connected to, like mohg, rahdan and most importantly godwin. Only just thought of this after watching this video so tell me how plausible this could have been, personally I would have loved this because something really felt missing in this dlc to tie it all together for me.
I did a lot of extensive work to try and figure out Miquella and Trina's lore for the DLC. All of my research signified nothing in the base game to a Radahn and Miquella "love" subplot, St. Trina was discarded in-game then neglected lorewise. Messmer felt hyped up to be the big bad, the entire trailer was literally just glazing of the tall nerd and we got a easy mid-DLC boss that felt kinda shallow. I was a firm believer in Miquella being some intricate victim, not a Griffith knockoff that ended lukewarm and rushed. It all kinda felt unsatisfying besides Marika's bit of lore, Metyr, Midra, and the Hornsent. The NPCs were forgettable, besides Ansbach, but even then I didn't *really* care. All I got from the DLC was my ass greased on NG+7, a alright story, and a pain in the ass leveling system.
To be honest, I'd say Shadow of the Erdtree is one of the best dlcs ever made, and the St Trina part was my favourite. Everything about it, from the atmosphere, the music, the journey down the fissure, the crazy repeated deaths from drinking the nectar, and Thiollier becoming a jealous, toxic fanboy before ultimately getting onboard. And when I first heard her voice I genuinely got chills. I would admit that the Putrescent Knight was a bit of a weird boss, but I really loved how they handled St Trina.
Absolutely agree. I feel lucky to have even been given the opportunity to just see her, let alone get an entire questline around her and one of her most devout followers. i fully expected to get little to no new knowledge about st trina. so, when i find her at the lowest point of the entire land (which is really interesting, considering Miquella is found at the highest point) and i get hear her voice after so much trial and error, you better believe that i was nearly brought to tears to hear her say what she did.
3:40 I’m pretty sure the Putrescent Knight is the horse’s own skeleton protruding from it’s back & basically riding itself, I think the horse’s skull is still inside of it’s skin though & the knight just has a ball of putrescence as it’s head, which matches the putrescence visible inside the skeleton
No sleep spells, only a fist weapon and a reskin of the Sword of St Trina, and the Putrescent Knight doesn't even afflict sleep on the player. I like the lore of Trina and Miquella disagreeing and Miquella abandoning her, I just wish From didn't also abandon the Sleep mechanic.
I feel like the dlc answered 0 questions I had and just created more weird Infos with even more questions. I really like the game, the gameplay, optics, feeling, and so on.. but somehow, I feel let down. I have no answers, no clue about Trina, the cut ending, or anything in general.. there needs to be a 2nd dlc imo.
I will also say, the dlc was kind of diappointingnin the aspect of ecploration. In the base game direction was kinda bad too, you'd still have to look uo where things are, but even if you didn't you'd eventually find it. With the dlc, you'd just nevr find it until you eventually looked it up. The areas also felt prety empty.
As massive and beautiful as the dlc was, much of the story was cut out, cut short, or lost altogether. The Abyssal Woods and much of the finger ruins added little to nothing, things didn’t clearly connect to each other, a lot more speculation had to happen to get theories than any FromSoft work prior. If they had dropped Midra and that area, built more and incorporated everything for Romina, Rellana, Ymir, St. Trina, and Miquella, it would have been perfection. It wouldn’t have taken much to complete those sections at the cost of the Abyssal Woods and taking out one of the finger ruin areas. Full cutscenes, a few more voicelines, and an item or two in each area to connect the thoughts (and a short scene/few more items for the Scadutree Chalice) would have made it feel good instead of a major lore letdown.
Honestly, Miquella and St Trina's relationship could have been like Marika and Radagon (considering the parallels). Just like how Marika and Radagon were at odds when Marika shattered the Elden Ring, Miquella and St Trina could have had that same kind of struggle where Miquella is attempting to further his cause of bringing about an age of compassion and St Trina would be doing everything in her power to stop him. This could then spark 2 potential endings for the DLC: 1. You side with Miquella and he successfully brings about an Age of Compassion. 2. You side with St Trina, defeat Miquella and once Miquella is defeated you are also able to 'free' the realm of shadow from its veil and it merges back with the Lands Between.
I think it’s very clear that they made the DLC after finishing the base game with no real idea of how to connect them and basically just tried to fit whatever round pegs would go in and leave out things that didn’t. The game doesn’t feel connected to the base game in any way in terms of in game mechanics or lore. We get so little of the gloam eyes queen, radagon, st trina, godwyn, the different gods and the night of black knives. I found the whole story incredibly unmoving and uninspiring. Apart from shamam village the game left me feeling so empty.
I even got so far as to say you could take out enemies from the base game and it would not change anything. I was hoping for like some more infos about the Crystalians and where they came from but nope. As for now there existence is just pointless in the basegame. Like i get that we need enemies and i even see the typical enemies from like RPGs but than i really love to see some lore reasons behind there existence. Like the Stone Golems are clearly made as guards. By who we do not know but still there existence in the game is not pointless like the Crystalians.
I actually completely missed this questline and didn't go to that area until after I already killed Miquella and the reason is that I discovered it too early and was blocked by a barrier and than I just completely forgot about it and never went back until I saw a video of the Putressant Knight fight and realized that I must have missed something
It's just apparent to me that missing chapters to factions exist with no references to clue in all the details. Thiollier is the only existing entity of the St Trina faction and we get no further lore.
I find myself not playing this DLC again much. After playing the base game, going to the DLC now knowing everything about it, it just does not have much to offer. I think what would have helped is if they made it accessible at the start of the game. That way I could at least use new weapons at the start of new playthroughs.
I don’t think she was “wasted” but I think they could have done more with her. I think the cross that says “here I abandon my love and my doubt” should have been post peutresent (sp) knight to add an extra punch journey down. Maybe they thought the dlc would have been too big if they did more with her and with her thing being gentle and soft restraining of miquella it wouldn’t fit her character idk 🤷♂️
I have the theory that in the same way Radahn is the knight of Miquella the Knight of St. Trina is Radahn's horse Leonard and that the Putrescent Knight have similar move set because that is Radahn's souless corpe.
Zio, I'm going to take this as the opportunity to summarize what I've posted about Miquella on the subreddit and other videos but greatly condensed. I was in the "Miquella is a misguided antihero" camp until I thought about his design once he passed through the divine gate and remembered that Fromsoft is a Japanese developer. I figured Miq's hair, four arms, and age of compassion had to mean something. So, with the little knowledge I had, I searched "Buddhism, Hinduism, Four arms, compassion, god" just to see what would happen. And up popped a bunch of pictures and articles about one of the most important deities in Buddhism: Avalokiteshvara (Kannon in Japan), the Bodhisattva of Infinite Compassion. Miquella is nearly a one-to-one mirror of this deity who has reached the level of a Buddha but postponed full ascension in order to help alleviate the suffering of the world through acts of pure compassion and love. Miq's journey in the DLC reflects the journey toward Nirvana, the emptying of the self and all attachment in order to break out of the causal chain that leads to suffering. In this light, I believe St. Trina is the embodiment of his loving attachment and love of self that can literally poison your virtue, ability to truly love, and the path to enlightenment. I really encourage people to dig into this symbolism and Buddhist deity because it really starts to make sense of Miquella and St. Trina. Heck, it even explains Radahn, his lion.
Fromsoftware fans will explain anything away. They could copy and paste Wizard of Oz into their game and they'd come up with some reason why this was profound and Miyazaki is a genius. 😂
8:29 I mean, YOU might have. But, a lot of blind playthrough players probably didn't have that goal in mind from the get-go. Like... the game just pulls a rail roady DM on you. And forces that onto you. (Frankly, THAT was the real biggest missed opportunity with the DLC. You should have been able to join Miquella. Bad ending or not, not like it could be any worse than Age of Dung, or, you know, LITERALLY BURNING EVERYONE ALIVE would be. This might in general be one of From's biggest issues. They REALLY like playing the DM that railroads you into a plot thread, whether you want to do it or not.)
even with how good st trina was i still believe there was so much more potential for sure, same with gloam eyed queen, the eclipse & godwyn, npc quests, trailer explanation & lore in general
The biggest gripe I have for the dlc is how long it takes me to relearn/kill the bosses in it. I can kill everything in base game so easy now because I have so much knowledge of builds…knowledge means jack in the DLC. Even my most busted builds are garbage against these bosses. I just don’t feel like grinding the bosses out everytime. So I honestly tend to skip the dlc most of the time.
Adult St Trina was likely the acknowledgement that she had emotional intelligence. Miquella was cursed with eternal youth and one could argue that made him short sighted. Brilliant but his other half had foresight and understanding the flaw of his methods and goal. Miquella called her his “doubt” but it was just maturity that he did not understand. He couldn’t understand due to his curse.
The hell? It was perfect. The whole travel down there, the boss, Thiollier's quest, the way you unlock her dialogue and how it has a proper end after the final boss. I don't know what people expected but I was thoroughly satisfied. The black screen with the whispers was on point. Are we really complaining about Thiollier's quest not being a MMO style quest where you get everything St Trina? Even though you already get a headpiece, a St Trina armor set and a St Trina themed weapon? What was it supposed to give instead? I'm getting really sick of the "MUH DLC WAS SO BAD" griefters.
I agree with you that I expected much more out of the St Trina aspect of the DLC, "her" story. I think the major reason it didn't happen was I believe the DLC was basically a collection of what was cut from the original game. I don't think they actually made a whole lot of "original" content for the DLC. I think they took the significant portions of the main story that they didn't include in the base game and made it in to some kind of cohesive story. I'm not saying that as a criticism. I just think it's probably a reality. And yes, I think that could easily take the two years it took to make it. I think this also explains the very odd and not really satisfying decision to have Radahn as the final boss. It was already a part of the original story, what else could they do? I think we'll have to wait for Elden Ring 2 or Elden Ring 0, whichever they decide to make in the future for a continuation or explanation of the original lore.
Hear me out they should’ve gave us her as the entrance scene for Radahn, her with us, and if you did her quest like it should’ve been her to stop the meteor or something
I personally think so. Was eager to learn more about this alter ego and other side of Miquella and felt like I wasn’t really given anything I didn’t already know
the only bad point you made was the putrescent knight. It sucks because after day one they made everything more complicated, but sleep and death are heavily connected
I just realized that bows are woefully under-represented in Elden Ring and a great addition would have been to have a Trina bow added somehow with a special AoW like a cloud of sleep fired in a straight line. Also given the previously mentioned "tentacled monster" motif on the torch, a new multi-headed sleep whip would also have been awesome. Overall, I would say that I too was somewhat disappointed with how small Trina's involvement really was. And especially because we weren't given an alternate ending where we could re-unite Trina and Miquella somehow.
Why in hell would we need to fight one of the purest, most gentle NPCs in the entire game lore? Why would she deploy a "sleep monster" against us, when she clearly has no agency on her own powers anymore? The dungeon, the lore and the boss are all exactly what they should be. People complaining about not being able to fight her never understood her character and that's a damn shame.
To be honest i feel like they should have spent a little more time developing the dlc I would be more happy if it took 3 years for the dlc and get everything I was expecting and wanting instead of getting the dlc in 2 years and missing a lot of the stuff that could have been good
I definitely thought the cutscenes where the veil is lifted would be a ending you get from helping miquella. I thought there might be three routes one where we face miquella, help him, and one where miquella comes to the realization his age of abundance is what the world rlly needed. I rlly thought Trina’s following and map was gonna be bigger an entire area of sleep, and she would put us put us to sleep and fight us morally corrupted aft being abandoned by miquella, turning dreams to nightmares in her adult form🫤
I think trina would have been batter if the enemies and the pk boss did sleep build up, and were programed to do a grab on sleeping players. That would have been more interesting that frost bite, of course co op would fuck it up a lot but what boss doesnt get fucked up by running co op
6:35 i like your videos but you're straight up lying here. It's name wasn't "knight of the gloam eyed queen" it just was "Gloam Eyed Knight" wich is not the same at all. Assuming it was changed last minute, or that it was intended to serve a different purpose is the same argument as when people say "Malenia was a scraped Sekiro boss" wich has been disproven already. I know we all wanted to see the GEQ herself as a grandiose boss fight but we gotta let that go already, the lore of the DLC points towards the fact that GEQ was, in fact, Marika herself.
no. the music and atmosphere around st. trina is beautiful. thiollier indeed carried the questline, but that's ok. if she is the embodiment of deep, eternal sleep, why should she be thrashing around? she did not need to be another boss fight. i'm happy that her encounter is somber and soothing.
It would have been cool if you accessed a Godwyn fight via St Trina like a dream or something. Because that was like the only thing missing the DLC was excellent otherwise
Instead of tying up loose ends lore-wise they decided to introduce a bunch of new unsolved lore mysteries instead. I understand it's a Fromsoft game but this time around I don't like how much lore is left unexplained. There's information that is necessary to understand the story that Miyazaki just doesn't give us even though he definitely actually has an explanation for things this time around. I'd like to have some sort of official lore compendium released that explains the full timeline and doesn't leave out any information. Who was the Gloam Eyed Queen? was she a snake? What does she have to do with Rykard and Messmer? Who is Rosus? Who was Placidusax's god?
A huge lost opportunity: a Sleep buildup Swamp - “poison swamp” but instead for sleep effect would have been perfect for St. Trina.
never considered that, would have been amazing
I used to think the same, but then I thought a little more about it. A sleep swamp would be more of a pain in the ass or a chore than a challenge. Sleep doesn’t harm you like poison or rot does. So you’d basically just be traveling through it, pass out, be stuck for a minute, rinse and repeat. It would just end up being tedious.
This is why Elden ring is only close to Miyazaki’s ideal rpg
@@Etticos. well maybe there could be a fun consequence for falling asleep or a unique area effect like at the ancient tree forest... like every time you fall asleep you spawn 'nightmare' monsters or make certain enemies stronger... or, if you want to be really evil, steal runes...
This has to be Miyazaki's most mixed DLC, from one side it's absolutely incredible and for the other it's just a mess of missed opportunities
Miyazaki's desire to make people figure the story out ruined the DLCs lore imo
@@PettyCrow-n9cGRRM probably left some things way too vague and i guess they dint wanna fill the gaps themselves as to respect his work
@@PettyCrow-n9c yes, this!! I find myself not enjoying some of their DLCs because, while the obscure, ambiguous narrative & lore works for the base game, but DLCs are where you’re supposed to scratch that itch you left in base game. It’s not something that should be made entirely separate from the main story, otherwise you just have two different places with frustratingly occluded information. There’s supposed to be that sort of “call and answer,” where the base game poses questions, and the DLC answers most of those questions. Some things should be left a mystery, sure, but the DLC shouldn’t just feel like a new mess of disconnected stories and ambiguous thematic and architectural connections that people will call headcanon because it’s not explicitly written on the wall in big letters in crayon.
@@LeggoMyGekko I just don't get how you have that reaction.
What I got from the DLC was:
"Oh, so that's why Marika hates horns so much."
"Oh, that's where Omens come from."
"Oh, that's where the fingers come from."
"Oh, that's why Placidusax is missing a couple heads."
"Oh, so this is the missing piece of land in the middle of the map."
"Oh, that's what Miquella was doing all this time."
"Oh, that's why Malenia attacked Radahn."
And finally: "Oh, that's how Marika came to power."
Like, the DLC clears up so much and mostly even in a very on the nose way.
For all of this to work so well, this weird other world that has been cut off works very well.
It gives us a window into the past without time travel.
I think the problem is that the dlc would have been much better as a 2nd game with 2 or even 3 times the content, there was just too many threads to wrap up with they just didn’t have the time for.
I thought that stumbling into st Trina and getting the request from her to put her other half out of misery and fight essentially for her was amazing, and one of the key points I thought gave me reason to want to kill consort radahn from a story perspective.
Yeah her inclusion was perfect, idk what is up so many people's ass with this DLC. I literally had zero problems.
@Tohlemiach I feel the issue is she doesn't really have a presence for being the other half of the most powerful god. Which is sorta the point? But she has no real information in the base game or dlc so in a way she is wasted but serves her role well.
@@yourfriendly609 yeah I actually partially agree, I think she was my favorite story element of the dlc, but I would have loved a bit of a covenant like system where we could have gone back after each significant step of the story to receive something rather than just the end.
Your argument would make sense if doing Trina's quest was what unlocked the Radahn+Miquella fight, but no. Radahn+Miquella will always be there and it will be a poorly designed fight that has no second phase.
@@zito2526 bros mad, also if you actually read what I said, I highlighted “from a story perspective” completely different then the mechanics of the fight or accessing it.
I spent my vanilla playthrough and all my DLC one, trying to learn more stuff about St. Trina. I rushed in the DLC to find St. Trina,found the catacombs before the seal was broken even, and overall I was let down. I thought St. Trina or the area around them would be "more" Still love the game but damn man lol.
Everyone is saying she doesn't need to be a boss fight, but boss fights aren't always the pinnacle of a concept. St. Trina was wasted by not being as integral to the plot of the dlc as she should have been. Very little influence anywhere in the dlc, BARELY any sleep weapons or items, and they aren't even good. The bossfight leading to her doesn't even use sleep, it uses frostbite because "ghost flame" (even tho it's just a bunch of corpses).
She didn't NEED to be a bossfight to be better. St. Trina should have had much more influence on the dlc than she did. The story should have given more room for her than it allowed.
Short answer: Yes. Long answer: Definately.
Saint Trina's sphere was sleep, but when she was cast down there she came to embody death.
Since Miquella's journey is a parallel to Marika, I speculate that the Gloam Eyed Queen who embodied death was once a part of Marika, just like how Trina was once a part of Miquella.
Too simple ... Marika doesn't have Radagon yet when she becomes a goddess. There is no trace of him before the conflict with the Carians, but we see that only Marika and Miquella got two parts, and the other thing they got in common is the fact that they build a tree. I think Radagon and Saint Trina are the result of the creation of a Giant Tree.
The Gloam Eyed Queen was a Nox and so a numen as Marika, probably an empyrean as her. She covered with the Black Moon of the Nox, like an eclipse, the sun of the fell god of the giants (and dragons), usurping their power. But the Universal Will punished her kindgom with the fall of Astel, allowing the Hornsent to make Marika the new goddess. She has been killed by Mariketh.
The Universal Will send Astel cause the Elden Beast wasn't here during the time of the GEQ
this sounds so cool
@@PaulStackhouse 😪 "Marika is Radagon" or did you forget?
They are one in the same. He has always been there.
@@jhank0cean This is not contradictory to what I say.
Moreover, you do not provide any element to explain that Marika and Miquella are the only ones to inhabit a second entity and where they would come from, and why there is no proof of Radagon before the Erdtree ...
@@PaulStackhouse Lmao what. Yes it is. You literally said "Marika doesn't have Radagon when she becomes a goddess." That suggests they are separate entities when in fact nothing in game suggests this.
Marika & Radagon were always one.
Miquella & St Trina were always one.
Radagon is the one that is obsessed with the Golden Order & the Erdtree.
Even when Radagon arrives, he arrives *_"at the head of a great golden host"_*
*_Everything associated with Gold links back to Marika. It was always: "Radagon is Marika"_*
To think otherwise is head cannon.
The only thing I'm annoyed with is that there is just another straight sword. It should have been a great spear or halberd.
Anything but another sleep straight sword… like it looks like a thrusting sword so that could have been a cool option, or even better make it a light greatsword?
Sleep hammer would have been a funny joke.
Mfw no sleep shield
@@lackinganame7857 he's on to something... Sleep greathammer?
Hey Zio, I recommend to watch the lore vids from Scum Mage Infa if you havent, i was disappointed in the lore of the DLC until watching some of his vids and peeps like Nameless Singer, Kitetales, Jack the Mimic, Zayf the Scholar.
I feel they have found a pretty solid amount of things to stoke my lore fire again.
The stuff with St. Trina is the secrets of "Jar Saints", Saint Romina (Bud, flower, purple, saint, poison and rot link) and the "Gloam Eyed" Putrescent Knight.
We have connections to the purple Grave Violets and Gravebords/Twinbirds, and we have the spectral rings of light connecting to Miquella.
A lot of it is subtle, but that was the case in base game too for many things
as much as its fun to watch lore videos, the game doesnt touch 99% of what the people find and ultimately so much of it remains theories with no answer, always, in every game.
@@marsupialsr Yeah, thats the problem with ER, DS answered a lot in comparison, only Velka we have almost nothing but its fine to have one aspect being in the dark, but ER almost everything has no definitive answer.
Lore guys: Did you name the Putrescence knight "Gloam eyed Knight" in files because he was meant for the GEQ or because he had glowing eyes or because you wanted to troll us?
MiyaFCKNzaki: ~yes~
I was 100% expecting a St Trina boss fight and was disappointed to see the skeleton knight instead.
Imagine saying Dark Souls failed because it didn’t being the crow goddess or the goddess of guilt into its dlcs. Elden Ring gave us the most information about its setting than any other setting. I know you’re not calling the game a failure, but this kind of nitpick was never present with previous fromsoft games because we knew not to expect this information to begin with
Yeah the fact that they never expanded on Velka is a CRIME. I forgot how disappointing those Dark Souls DLC's were tbh.
Nobody liked how Gale was the final boss. Honestly should've been Velka
I mean Velka already had an entire area of the base game that is related to her, the painted world. DS1 is probably the worst game you couldve chosen to illustrate this point because its DLC is extremely straightforward with its explanations. We learn what happend to all the knights of Gwyn, where the darkness of man comes from, how humanity works, what happened to Oolacile, etc. Id say proportionally it explains way way more of the base games's mysteries than SOTE does. SOTE practically raises more questions than it answers. Hell one of its core remembrance bosses and second last boss of the game has almost zero lore (Romina). Imagine if Kalimeet was never spoken about by Hawkeye Gough and you just find him and kill him with no buildup.
They wasted St Trina AND Miquella☝️
And they didnt even mention godwyn :(
@@ManEaterBrainBug 🤣🤣🤣 you people are so entitled.
This channel lets me down. What were people expecting of St. Trina? I was very satisfied with both characters (Miquella and St. Trina because I didn't have unrealistic expectations). I genuienly don't know what people even wanted. St. Trina had a cut quest, they put it back into the game.
@@tiredasf107 NOT EVEN TRUE. Godwyn had a bit of new lore in the catacombs + his Death Knights. Wtf are you people on about. Do you guys even played the dlc?
@@cowhale2488 yea that wasnt enough for me
Some death knights and those faces
Thats it 😫
No one can convince me that FromSoft had this DLC plot mapped out while the base game was out. It’s like a whole other team made the DLC. Lack of Godwyn and Torrent follow up is abysmal and cannot be forgiven. 😢
I feel like there was a small amount that was pre-planned, like Messmer and something with Radahn, but overall a lot of the elements don't fit nearly as well as they should have. Especially when you start trying to construct a concrete timeline. Fromsoft normally leaves some puzzle pieces out, but this is definitely the game where it feels like the most pieces are missing. Maybe to the point where certain things get frustrating. Still love the game, but I am much more frustrated at ER lore than DS lore.
@@liarwithagun To me Messmer should have been the final boss of the game, he fit the role perfectly. Also his boss battle was tons more fair than what we got.
true i want to hear from miyazaki why tho
Regarding the Putrescent Knight, we know its the skeleton of a horse riding it's own rotting flesh.
Now who is the horse we see the Miquellestor riding in the pre-release image? None but best boy Torrent, the spectral steed. Which makes some amount of sense considering Ranni makes mention of torrent's previous master (tho it WOULD make far more sense if the boss went by the original name and it was Gloam Eyed Queen related, considering Melina gives you Torrent's whistle but who knows, maybe now we can tie Ranni and Miquella and/or St Trina together)
Given how often the game distinguishes between spirit/projected versions of characters vs their real counterparts (Renalla, Morgot, Mohg, Ranni, etc in the base game and Igon in the DLC), we know that a spirit construct, for lack of a better term, can simultaneously exist alongside a physical presence.
Taking all of that into consideration, I strongly believe that the putrescent knight IS TORRENT. His physical form at least
Where does it say that the putrescent night was a horse skeleton riding its own rotting flesh
@@453wilson character design, look at the horse, look at the shape of the knight/skeleton
Nah the putrescent knight is actually Leonard😢
Wdym waste, i snort that nectar so hard like 7 times wdym waste?
I was more disappointed that Putresent Knight didn't have any sleep status effect attacks. I wanted a boss that caused that along with one that caused frenzied flame. We got frenzied flame but very little enemies cause sleep and still no bosses cause sleep.
Well Londor was never touched on that much in DS3's dlcs so this isn't new for Fromsoft to not elaborate.
yeah good point, there was so much we expected from ds3 dlcs that we didnt get at all. At the same time tho, I don't think people were disappointed about a lack of londor in the same was that people are disappointed in a lack of st trina
But people complained about that, you'd think Miyazaki would learn from that
It's not a learning point for Miyazaki, it's just not what he wants the story to focus on
The DLC made me compromise. I wanted rotted godwyn body possessed , I compromised, I got mohgs that gets occupied by radahn then looks just like radahn (apparenly with horns if zoomed in on screenshots). I wanted some expansion on the eclipse and why it didnt work so miquella had to go to the shadow realm, I compromised and I got mohg being a victim. I wanted the gloam eyed queen, I compromise... I got a half finished boss... see where I'm going with this?
I feel like maybe a lot of these concepts that we all expected to see more of in the DLC (St. Trina/Dreams, Godwyn, Gloam Eyed Queen) were initially were going to be explored more, but i feel maybe they decided to keep these things for the sequel
I think a lot of people forget how Miyazaki has since said… the DLC is the end of elden ring as a video game
This whole DLC feels like a big cop out. By introducing the concept of Miquella casting off everything about himself, the writers get away with not following up any of his story lines.
I think it's actually a perfect culmination of his storylines though. Miquella realized that it was the curse of the sin and "law of causality" within the Golden Order that was prohibiting him from actually saving anyone. His efforts could only go so far because the foundation was faulty.
So, all of his worldly, spiritual, and bodily ties to this Old Order had to go and he needed to transcend as a new god for a completely new age. And that's what he does in the Land of Shadow.
@@TSpoon823exactly, it’s not perfect but it does make sense.
The thing that bothers me to this day is: why did they not add the merchant sleep quest item from cut content? Having to go around to each enemy and sleep them to fill out a bestiary would have made the lacklustre sleep weapons seem alright. They could have made that Trina's quest, so that we actually get to engage with her.
On a personal note, deep purple is my favourite colour, and no deep purple robes makes me so sad. 😩
A quest like that would feel completely out of place.
@@MrTask4ce I agree, but the items were already cut content, they just would had to change it up a bit. Maybe make Thiollier tell you to gather dream mist, or whatever in order to restore Trina, or something. Trina's "quest" is so hollow, it put me to sleep (pun intended). I would have welcomed nearly anything in place of what we got.
You literally answered your own question: it was cut content. They cut it for a reason. Whatever reason that is, they cut it because they didn't want it in the game, from the game's release.
@@marchmelloowA lot of stuff gets cut simply due to time constraints and not because it's bad. Are you saying that you prefer the game WITHOUT an actual merchant questline and bestiary? An actual quest that showcases the link beween madness and sleep would have been really cool. I'm just saying the items were already made, they could have easily re-purposed them.
@@shiftgaming101 If they didn't bring it back for the DLC, then it was something they didn't want in the game in the first place. If they thought it was something the game should have, they would have added it in the DLC.
Absolutely. The entire DLC feels rushed and it was just MEH storywise. Main bosses with no voicelines and cutscenes, Radahn just recycled as a bossfight, the whole Miquella story just told through Leda and her crew. He should have had Ranni level of involvemnt, even if we do turn on him and end up defeating and killing him in the end.
I just wish the boss fight was more substantial. I was hoping for a sleep-powered St. Trina boss fight, with her fighting as a floating sword wielder. I do love the poetry of what we got, but yeah it could've been even stronger.
A boss fight wasn’t necessary but totally agree on the weapons. Huge missed opportunity for other sleep based gear.
Sleep in general needed a rework
St.Trina was cool,im glad they werent just a boss fight but i wish the area was more fleshed out like you mentioned.That was my personal biggest dissapointment in the game which applys to multiple areas in the dlc,it feels somewhat rushed which it honestly probably was,the deathblight area was the biggest disappointment ever.
When I first saw the trailer for the DLC I spotted the character with the Dancing Blade of Ranah weapon and her doing the ash of war of Unending Dance, I thought we were gonna get some lore about the blue dancer who, to my knowledge, trained Malenia. About this topic, the blue dancer charm and the warrior starting class comes to mind.
Yes, St. Trina deserved much more than they got... at least Godwin got his own Knights we could fight and had a really awesome armor set. Even though what we all wanted in both cases (St. Trina & Godwin) was an epic boss fight with them. Now, that said.. a missed opportunity doesn't mean it's bad, I still thoroughly loved Scadu of the Erdtree. Silver lining though, we could possibly see Godwin in a future expansion, St. Trina... not so much. Cheers Zio! 🍻
Its because dlc was rushed they don't have plan for dlc but fans was eager to get dlc they start to make. In Dlc many places are empty and it take long time to get to some locations that kinda hidden so it will take some time to find, that will keep players spend time in dlc so the game looks bigger. They come up quick ideas to finish off some npc stories but still for 2 years time this type of content they made is pretty amazing this dlc just stand alone game.
*St. Trina serves an important purpose lore-wise:* she showcases how two entities sharing one body can have entirely conflicting opinions and goals.
Before the DLC, a common interpretation was that Radagon was a "kill switch" parasite that the Greater Will forced on Marika. That he was the Golden Order personified and was there to make sure she aligns with what the Greater Will wants. But after the DLC, St. Trina makes it clear to us that no, just because they share a body doesn't mean they have to be in agreement with each other, and Radagon has very different stances to Marika, much like how St. Trina wants the opposite of Miquella, in terms of godhood. I think she was purposefully included in this manner, because understanding that is important for deciphering what's going on with Radagon and Marika.
I also think Miquella cast her aside because he saw the conflict that arose between Radagon and Marika, and decided it was better not to have her along for the ride.
I feel like this theme was already immediately present in the base game with marika breaking the ring while radagon in the same body is trying to repair it. Radagon wanted order and marika went along with it until it was too late. In order for order to work something must be subjugated, and in the case of two opposing gods in one body marika was the one that was subjugated.
@@eprimchad2576 The problem is we lacked understanding of just how independent they could be, and we assumed it only makes sense if Radagon was effectively a parasite inserted onto Marika to carry out the desires of the Greater Will. St. Trina makes it clear that no, they can be quite independent of another WITHOUT one needing to be a tool for an Outer God.
For me the whole dlc story was really underwhelming, but i already excepted to be disappointed when miyazaki said that it was during the base game and not after, meaning, it doesn’t matter what was in it, the game ends the same way, anyways it was a really big miss opportunity not choosing to elaborate more on Miquella (actually showing us his journey) they cut and discarded a lot of plot points and lore from the base game, but yeah that’s what happens when u base a game on a story depicting the world thats already “over” like star wars with their “newest triology”
Great video as always! Thanks
Agreed, like the even baited us with a picture of Miquella riding torrent, as well as a whole freeking cutscene that was in the trailer which showed Miquella, AND WE NEVER SEE IT AGAIN!
Literally take a look at all the comments you definitely are not the only one. But yet when it dropped people were calling it a 10/10.. Ive been of this opinion since i first played it. For me the dlc does not live up to the base game at all
The DLC let us down on every major character from the base game. Miquella, Trina, Radahn, Mohg, all of them are just an incredibly mid blur in my brain now. Very unfortunate what Miyazaki thought we would accept here.
And Messmer, don't forget that. Not to mention mechanics-wise.
@@ΦιλήσυχοςΠολίτηςMessmer was cool though, and had good lore (better than most base game characters, definitely better than Radagon).
If St Trina was wasted the Gloam Eyed queen was delisted 😒
Godwyn was straight up banned
I don’t think they did. You don’t need to fight everything and everyone. Mystery is part of what made Fromsoft games amazing
I don't want to fight her a real quest or real dialogue will do it for me
to give her just three line it is stupidly unfair, I feel like they are so lazy to give her anything.
she was the most suitable person to give us a more background about miquella & radahn.. I want her to tell me about what is the meaning of him become a god
how to start your journey to stop them
give you some real information and guidance that will help you reshape the story to make it better than this empty story of miqualla and his consort
Sure mystery is fun in fronsofts games, as it lets the players find out about the lore through items, interactions, endings (in some cases). But the St Trina content gave us near nothing. Yeah they don't have to give us everything, but if you're going to add a character who is a major character in the story surround Miquella, give us actual content that lets us engage with her story.
The only thing that’s disappointing is that we didn’t get a single sleep-status inflicting boss. Would’ve been interesting aesthetically as well as gameplay-wise. They could’ve given this boss a brutal grab attack that you would’ve had to manage the status to escape.
Agreed. Idk if this is people’s first from soft game or what but there are plenty of important characters we don’t get a ton of into on. Like the painter in dark souls 3 who is arguably one of the most important characters in that game and we know nothing about her. Maybe even less than miquella or at Trina.
Of course, mystery is fine and what we expect, but was it necessary for the character to be pointless in context of the gameplay/Miquella’s story for the sake of mystery? That’s the question
Loved the St. Trina questline. My biggest gripes with the DLC are the backwards step that ER took with multiplayer (which i was hoping to be addressed but wasnt), the lack of Godwyn/deathblight. I would be way more ok with the latter if doing St. Trinas quest gave us a secret ending or something along those lines.
We should have received sleep based incantations. The sleep pots literally say “enhanced by St. Trina’s incantations”, which made me think we’d be getting some in the DLC. I also agree with everyone else that we should have gotten a sleep weapon besides a straight sword. But even then, if they were so hell bent on making ANOTHER sleep straight sword, why couldn’t they have given it a more unique ash of war?? 😭
There wasn't a big twist concerning the bosses this time around. The big twist was with Marika, and it was a pretty damn good one. I think it would have great to add a bit of "non-canon" endings, like following Miquella, or maybe creating some concoction to put them into eternal sleep, or something. Just seemed like a lot of missed opportunities.
I loved Trina’s story. I was 100% into it. Broken dying goddess that was Miquella’s love and kindness. Broken and desperate and still giving comfort to the dead around her. The reason you find her sword in Cailid because she was the one horrified by what Miquella’s schemes resulted in.
I think these are valid criticisms of the St. Trina content, and despite fan disappointment, it’s pretty unlikely FromSoftware will add more to Elden Ring. That said, this concept would be an amazing fit for a mod-and it could even align with FromSoftware’s existing themes.
For instance, imagine a mod that introduces a new story quest triggered after defeating the final boss in the DLC and collecting St. Trina’s Flower. Upon reloading the area, where St. Trina’s body once lay, there's now a decayed, dark plant mass pulsing with electric purple energy and a collectible item on top. When the player picks it up, they’re engulfed in a purple gas (using the poison proc animation but in purple for simplicity).
This gas transforms the area’s lighting, and players must fight their way back up or down through the fissure. At the large, open area before the jumping sections, a new boss appears: Dark Dreamer St. Trina.
Picture her as a tall, elegantly wiry woman-flower hybrid. Using the current St. Trina model’s color palette, but with heightened contrast, she would strike a balance of beauty and horror. Her petal arrangement could resemble a Victorian-style dress, while her lower body is a decaying, greyish-white root she slithers on like Medusa. She might have a hauntingly beautiful face but with Venus Flytrap-like hands tipped with venomous claws and too many fingers.
Her attacks could include sleep-inducing gas released from her flowing sleeves, putting players into an "eternal nightmare" if exposed repeatedly-a mechanic that echoes Miquella’s heart-stealing effect. To tie in the storyline with the Putrescent Knight, she could summon minions like skeletons or those ooze creatures, reinforcing the theme of sleep and decay in the Lands Between. A standout attack might have her sultrily slither over to the player, lean in, and blow a sleep-inducing flame or dust attack, making the allure of sleep feel almost irresistible.
Upon entering her second phase, Dark Dreamer St. Trina could begin summoning nightmare creatures, distorted versions of familiar enemies. Imagine recolored wolves, skeletons, or goo creatures with an eerie purple haze or maybe translucency to make them appear ghostly and surreal. These nightmare creatures could act differently from normal, perhaps moving erracticly like the cemetery shades, as if they were barely real. When defeated, they could fade rather than die, only to respawn a few seconds later, giving the sense that the player is being haunted by the nightmare itself.
The concept of Dark Dreamer St. Trina as a dark necromancer is also a clever inversion of Miquella’s nature. Whereas Miquella inspires love and followership, Trina commands an undead allegiance-a twisted, nightmarish devotion that corrupts rather than comforts. This adds a darker layer to her character and emphasizes the duality between the siblings.
In this phase, the environment could also subtly distort, with colors warped or “cracks” in reality flickering to reveal nightmare landscapes behind them. The longer the battle continues, the more nightmare creatures appear, intensifying the fight and heightening the urgency to escape the endless nightmare.
I think I'm gonna go sketch this out.
The whole dream boss fight would have been great and i had an out there concept.
The fortisax fight being in the dream was also connected to another very significant character, Godwin, and as we know miquella had a connection with godwin and a big theory was godwin was the final boss. Imagine if st trinas quest was to somehow return godwins soul to his body to combat miquella and radan. Maybe throughout trinas quest we learn that trina came close but was unable to complety resurrect godwin thanks to being discarded from miquella. What if after we defeat miquella we could return with his crown to a "dead" trina and trigger a boss fight where your in the same arena as the putrid night but the final secret boss turns out to be godwin in all his brilliance. After he is defeated we return from st trinas dream with a final cutscene that could show us talking with st trina as she wilts away thanking us for stopping miquella and properly laying all the demi gods to rest that miquella was connected to, like mohg, rahdan and most importantly godwin.
Only just thought of this after watching this video so tell me how plausible this could have been, personally I would have loved this because something really felt missing in this dlc to tie it all together for me.
"St Trina was using the guise of a woman or child" headcanon. Literally nobody thought this
I did a lot of extensive work to try and figure out Miquella and Trina's lore for the DLC. All of my research signified nothing in the base game to a Radahn and Miquella "love" subplot, St. Trina was discarded in-game then neglected lorewise. Messmer felt hyped up to be the big bad, the entire trailer was literally just glazing of the tall nerd and we got a easy mid-DLC boss that felt kinda shallow. I was a firm believer in Miquella being some intricate victim, not a Griffith knockoff that ended lukewarm and rushed. It all kinda felt unsatisfying besides Marika's bit of lore, Metyr, Midra, and the Hornsent. The NPCs were forgettable, besides Ansbach, but even then I didn't *really* care. All I got from the DLC was my ass greased on NG+7, a alright story, and a pain in the ass leveling system.
To be honest, I'd say Shadow of the Erdtree is one of the best dlcs ever made, and the St Trina part was my favourite. Everything about it, from the atmosphere, the music, the journey down the fissure, the crazy repeated deaths from drinking the nectar, and Thiollier becoming a jealous, toxic fanboy before ultimately getting onboard. And when I first heard her voice I genuinely got chills.
I would admit that the Putrescent Knight was a bit of a weird boss, but I really loved how they handled St Trina.
Absolutely agree. I feel lucky to have even been given the opportunity to just see her, let alone get an entire questline around her and one of her most devout followers. i fully expected to get little to no new knowledge about st trina. so, when i find her at the lowest point of the entire land (which is really interesting, considering Miquella is found at the highest point) and i get hear her voice after so much trial and error, you better believe that i was nearly brought to tears to hear her say what she did.
3:40 I’m pretty sure the Putrescent Knight is the horse’s own skeleton protruding from it’s back & basically riding itself, I think the horse’s skull is still inside of it’s skin though & the knight just has a ball of putrescence as it’s head, which matches the putrescence visible inside the skeleton
No sleep spells, only a fist weapon and a reskin of the Sword of St Trina, and the Putrescent Knight doesn't even afflict sleep on the player. I like the lore of Trina and Miquella disagreeing and Miquella abandoning her, I just wish From didn't also abandon the Sleep mechanic.
I feel like the dlc answered 0 questions I had and just created more weird Infos with even more questions.
I really like the game, the gameplay, optics, feeling, and so on.. but somehow, I feel let down. I have no answers, no clue about Trina, the cut ending, or anything in general.. there needs to be a 2nd dlc imo.
The St Trina flower model should have been a player transformation akin to the Kos Parasite. It would have been amazing, nothing will change my mind.
I will also say, the dlc was kind of diappointingnin the aspect of ecploration. In the base game direction was kinda bad too, you'd still have to look uo where things are, but even if you didn't you'd eventually find it. With the dlc, you'd just nevr find it until you eventually looked it up. The areas also felt prety empty.
As massive and beautiful as the dlc was, much of the story was cut out, cut short, or lost altogether. The Abyssal Woods and much of the finger ruins added little to nothing, things didn’t clearly connect to each other, a lot more speculation had to happen to get theories than any FromSoft work prior. If they had dropped Midra and that area, built more and incorporated everything for Romina, Rellana, Ymir, St. Trina, and Miquella, it would have been perfection. It wouldn’t have taken much to complete those sections at the cost of the Abyssal Woods and taking out one of the finger ruin areas. Full cutscenes, a few more voicelines, and an item or two in each area to connect the thoughts (and a short scene/few more items for the Scadutree Chalice) would have made it feel good instead of a major lore letdown.
Honestly, Miquella and St Trina's relationship could have been like Marika and Radagon (considering the parallels).
Just like how Marika and Radagon were at odds when Marika shattered the Elden Ring, Miquella and St Trina could have had that same kind of struggle where Miquella is attempting to further his cause of bringing about an age of compassion and St Trina would be doing everything in her power to stop him.
This could then spark 2 potential endings for the DLC:
1. You side with Miquella and he successfully brings about an Age of Compassion.
2. You side with St Trina, defeat Miquella and once Miquella is defeated you are also able to 'free' the realm of shadow from its veil and it merges back with the Lands Between.
I think it’s very clear that they made the DLC after finishing the base game with no real idea of how to connect them and basically just tried to fit whatever round pegs would go in and leave out things that didn’t. The game doesn’t feel connected to the base game in any way in terms of in game mechanics or lore. We get so little of the gloam eyes queen, radagon, st trina, godwyn, the different gods and the night of black knives. I found the whole story incredibly unmoving and uninspiring. Apart from shamam village the game left me feeling so empty.
I even got so far as to say you could take out enemies from the base game and it would not change anything.
I was hoping for like some more infos about the Crystalians and where they came from but nope.
As for now there existence is just pointless in the basegame.
Like i get that we need enemies and i even see the typical enemies from like RPGs but than i really love to see some lore reasons behind there existence.
Like the Stone Golems are clearly made as guards. By who we do not know but still there existence in the game is not pointless like the Crystalians.
I actually completely missed this questline and didn't go to that area until after I already killed Miquella and the reason is that I discovered it too early and was blocked by a barrier and than I just completely forgot about it and never went back until I saw a video of the Putressant Knight fight and realized that I must have missed something
You probably get this alot! But love the use of Metroid prime music in your videos!
It's just apparent to me that missing chapters to factions exist with no references to clue in all the details. Thiollier is the only existing entity of the St Trina faction and we get no further lore.
I find myself not playing this DLC again much. After playing the base game, going to the DLC now knowing everything about it, it just does not have much to offer. I think what would have helped is if they made it accessible at the start of the game. That way I could at least use new weapons at the start of new playthroughs.
I don’t think she was “wasted” but I think they could have done more with her. I think the cross that says “here I abandon my love and my doubt” should have been post peutresent (sp) knight to add an extra punch journey down. Maybe they thought the dlc would have been too big if they did more with her and with her thing being gentle and soft restraining of miquella it wouldn’t fit her character idk 🤷♂️
I have the theory that in the same way Radahn is the knight of Miquella the Knight of St. Trina is Radahn's horse Leonard and that the Putrescent Knight have similar move set because that is Radahn's souless corpe.
ngl, i was especting st trina to be the radagon on this dlc
I wonder how many people who got to that point actually got all the cut scenes/ & dialog from her.
Zio, I'm going to take this as the opportunity to summarize what I've posted about Miquella on the subreddit and other videos but greatly condensed. I was in the "Miquella is a misguided antihero" camp until I thought about his design once he passed through the divine gate and remembered that Fromsoft is a Japanese developer.
I figured Miq's hair, four arms, and age of compassion had to mean something. So, with the little knowledge I had, I searched "Buddhism, Hinduism, Four arms, compassion, god" just to see what would happen. And up popped a bunch of pictures and articles about one of the most important deities in Buddhism: Avalokiteshvara (Kannon in Japan), the Bodhisattva of Infinite Compassion.
Miquella is nearly a one-to-one mirror of this deity who has reached the level of a Buddha but postponed full ascension in order to help alleviate the suffering of the world through acts of pure compassion and love.
Miq's journey in the DLC reflects the journey toward Nirvana, the emptying of the self and all attachment in order to break out of the causal chain that leads to suffering. In this light, I believe St. Trina is the embodiment of his loving attachment and love of self that can literally poison your virtue, ability to truly love, and the path to enlightenment.
I really encourage people to dig into this symbolism and Buddhist deity because it really starts to make sense of Miquella and St. Trina. Heck, it even explains Radahn, his lion.
Was honestly expecting a new Sleep biome of sorts or at least a Sleep inflicting boss.
Fromsoftware fans will explain anything away. They could copy and paste Wizard of Oz into their game and they'd come up with some reason why this was profound and Miyazaki is a genius. 😂
What does this have to do with hypothetical plagiarism?
8:29
I mean, YOU might have. But, a lot of blind playthrough players probably didn't have that goal in mind from the get-go. Like... the game just pulls a rail roady DM on you. And forces that onto you.
(Frankly, THAT was the real biggest missed opportunity with the DLC. You should have been able to join Miquella. Bad ending or not, not like it could be any worse than Age of Dung, or, you know, LITERALLY BURNING EVERYONE ALIVE would be.
This might in general be one of From's biggest issues. They REALLY like playing the DM that railroads you into a plot thread, whether you want to do it or not.)
even with how good st trina was i still believe there was so much more potential for sure, same with gloam eyed queen, the eclipse & godwyn, npc quests, trailer explanation & lore in general
The biggest gripe I have for the dlc is how long it takes me to relearn/kill the bosses in it. I can kill everything in base game so easy now because I have so much knowledge of builds…knowledge means jack in the DLC. Even my most busted builds are garbage against these bosses. I just don’t feel like grinding the bosses out everytime. So I honestly tend to skip the dlc most of the time.
Lmao imo this is the best part of the dlc cause you can’t cheese the bosses like the ez base game
Man, people really got spoiled by Elden Ring.
In previous souls games you would get NOTHING
'Cries in Velka'
Waiting on iceberg part two.
Adult St Trina was likely the acknowledgement that she had emotional intelligence. Miquella was cursed with eternal youth and one could argue that made him short sighted. Brilliant but his other half had foresight and understanding the flaw of his methods and goal. Miquella called her his “doubt” but it was just maturity that he did not understand. He couldn’t understand due to his curse.
The hell? It was perfect. The whole travel down there, the boss, Thiollier's quest, the way you unlock her dialogue and how it has a proper end after the final boss. I don't know what people expected but I was thoroughly satisfied. The black screen with the whispers was on point.
Are we really complaining about Thiollier's quest not being a MMO style quest where you get everything St Trina? Even though you already get a headpiece, a St Trina armor set and a St Trina themed weapon? What was it supposed to give instead?
I'm getting really sick of the "MUH DLC WAS SO BAD" griefters.
Elden Ring os still my favorite video game of all time, and the DLC furthered this for sure, but you aren't wrong. Some things were left on the table.
The base game has like a flower, sword, torch, and a cookbook, we overhyped everything. The cut content was the real issue.
I agree with you that I expected much more out of the St Trina aspect of the DLC, "her" story. I think the major reason it didn't happen was I believe the DLC was basically a collection of what was cut from the original game. I don't think they actually made a whole lot of "original" content for the DLC. I think they took the significant portions of the main story that they didn't include in the base game and made it in to some kind of cohesive story. I'm not saying that as a criticism. I just think it's probably a reality. And yes, I think that could easily take the two years it took to make it.
I think this also explains the very odd and not really satisfying decision to have Radahn as the final boss. It was already a part of the original story, what else could they do?
I think we'll have to wait for Elden Ring 2 or Elden Ring 0, whichever they decide to make in the future for a continuation or explanation of the original lore.
Hear me out they should’ve gave us her as the entrance scene for Radahn, her with us, and if you did her quest like it should’ve been her to stop the meteor or something
I personally think so. Was eager to learn more about this alter ego and other side of Miquella and felt like I wasn’t really given anything I didn’t already know
Exactly
the only bad point you made was the putrescent knight. It sucks because after day one they made everything more complicated, but sleep and death are heavily connected
eternal sleep is literally just death lmao
I just realized that bows are woefully under-represented in Elden Ring and a great addition would have been to have a Trina bow added somehow with a special AoW like a cloud of sleep fired in a straight line.
Also given the previously mentioned "tentacled monster" motif on the torch, a new multi-headed sleep whip would also have been awesome.
Overall, I would say that I too was somewhat disappointed with how small Trina's involvement really was. And especially because we weren't given an alternate ending where we could re-unite Trina and Miquella somehow.
Magma whip, but sleep...🤔
Could have been so cool.
The Bone bow was good until they nerfed the status buildup with its AoW
Prequel material. Adult St Trina, Gloam Eyed Queen, and Marika's conquest of the Lands Between.
Considering St Trina's part in the plot wrecked me, no, I don't think she was wasted 🥲
Why in hell would we need to fight one of the purest, most gentle NPCs in the entire game lore? Why would she deploy a "sleep monster" against us, when she clearly has no agency on her own powers anymore? The dungeon, the lore and the boss are all exactly what they should be. People complaining about not being able to fight her never understood her character and that's a damn shame.
Except, she does deploy a skeleton monster against us in the current DLC…
I'm just glad we got to see Trina at all. She was so cute too.
To be honest i feel like they should have spent a little more time developing the dlc I would be more happy if it took 3 years for the dlc and get everything I was expecting and wanting instead of getting the dlc in 2 years and missing a lot of the stuff that could have been good
I dont think it failed because it did give us answers about trina, but she didn't play as big of a role as we originally thought
Yeah, the majority of the lore brought up in the DLC was kind of disappointing for me. I feel like the story needed another 6 months to a year to cook
The dlc was phenomenal but some story stuff was just disappointing and the build up felt rushed.
I enjoyed my time with the DLC. Even got to cheese Radahn with Parfume a day before it was nerfed. St.Trina was fine allbeit underutilized.
Being disappointed that your expectations weren't met isn't the same as waited potential.
Imo Not everything needs to be solved
Nah. It’s not a mystery, just wasted potential
Not solved, but why discard good storytelling to make it pointless? Thats what the video is about
Indeed, but the DLC's story just wasn't good.
@@dynamicflashy it was, you’re just mad it wasn’t exactly what you wanted, like a little kid throwing a fit. Typical
@@Stanzbey69average fromsoft fan response whenever someone says something slightly negative about this game’s horrendous "story"
I definitely thought the cutscenes where the veil is lifted would be a ending you get from helping miquella.
I thought there might be three routes one where we face miquella, help him, and one where miquella comes to the realization his age of abundance is what the world rlly needed.
I rlly thought Trina’s following and map was gonna be bigger an entire area of sleep, and she would put us put us to sleep and fight us morally corrupted aft being abandoned by miquella, turning dreams to nightmares in her adult form🫤
Sleep is way more underwhelming of a status effect then St Trina as a character
I think trina would have been batter if the enemies and the pk boss did sleep build up, and were programed to do a grab on sleeping players. That would have been more interesting that frost bite, of course co op would fuck it up a lot but what boss doesnt get fucked up by running co op
i just don’t really like anything that the dlc did with the lore. I honestly can’t say i enjoyed the dlc at all
A little, yes. I was hoping, they'd do more with her.
The only time From has failed to deliver was Tomoe and I'd bet that was on Activision.
6:35 i like your videos but you're straight up lying here. It's name wasn't "knight of the gloam eyed queen" it just was "Gloam Eyed Knight" wich is not the same at all. Assuming it was changed last minute, or that it was intended to serve a different purpose is the same argument as when people say "Malenia was a scraped Sekiro boss" wich has been disproven already. I know we all wanted to see the GEQ herself as a grandiose boss fight but we gotta let that go already, the lore of the DLC points towards the fact that GEQ was, in fact, Marika herself.
no. the music and atmosphere around st. trina is beautiful. thiollier indeed carried the questline, but that's ok. if she is the embodiment of deep, eternal sleep, why should she be thrashing around? she did not need to be another boss fight. i'm happy that her encounter is somber and soothing.
It would have been cool if you accessed a Godwyn fight via St Trina like a dream or something. Because that was like the only thing missing the DLC was excellent otherwise
Instead of tying up loose ends lore-wise they decided to introduce a bunch of new unsolved lore mysteries instead. I understand it's a Fromsoft game but this time around I don't like how much lore is left unexplained. There's information that is necessary to understand the story that Miyazaki just doesn't give us even though he definitely actually has an explanation for things this time around. I'd like to have some sort of official lore compendium released that explains the full timeline and doesn't leave out any information. Who was the Gloam Eyed Queen? was she a snake? What does she have to do with Rykard and Messmer? Who is Rosus? Who was Placidusax's god?
I dont care at all about fighting her, but I wanted her more active in the story. They create compelling characters and then do little with them
They sure let us down on Trina and last boss. Everything else was perfect.
I wish they added more sleep spells and ashes of war