i think he ran into a weird scenario where he was not being themed well, and just ended up inbetween multiple character archetypes. kinda in a reverse style of the plank of wood nowadays, except it ends up looking just as bad
He needs someone at his side, i.e. a more experienced performer, to light him up. He works well alongside Viggo Mortensen, Johnny Depp or even Eric Bana. Hell, the best performance I've ever seen him give was that South African crime movie he did with Forest Withaker and he was the lead in that one, not FW! So he can be leading material! But Ridley Scott isn't known as an actors' director, and poor Orlando was clearly left on his own with a dull, overly long script that keeps meandering and gives him nothing. He feels awkward throughout the whole thing.
Color me super excited. I took multiple Medieval Europe courses for my master's, specialized in Classical World like Ancient Rome, Greece, and Mesopotamia, took courses on the Middle East and Islamic empires, and in my senior year Crusades course we watched this movie at the end of Finals and critiqued it for its historic absurdity. In other words: I've been looking forward to this.
I’ve not seen this movie before, but before even watching just based on my knowledge of history and the context clues I’m assuming this is going to be yet another in a very long line of “look how moral the Muslims are and how evil the west is”?
@@SumDumGy No, this movie was heavily criticized by the historic community for its pro-Muslim sentiments. It consistently portrays the Europeans as marble-brained barbarians while the Muslims under Salah Al-Din are consistently portrayed as paragons of virtue and martial honor. Both depictions are wrong, and this film absolutely does not take a balanced stance for both sides.
This week, I finally showed my best friend the extended Lord of the Rings Trilogy, and he loved it so much we watched the last six hours in one sitting. Then the next day he told me how great season 2 of Halo is 💀
I always crack up at Orlando Bloom's armor leveling up throughout this movie lol the cool blue armor at the end is the quintessential end game armor you get just before the final area.
To be fair it was a river that wasn't turbulent, unlike the ocean that was in the middle of a storm. Also Bailan had to deal with ship wreckage, while Aragorn didn't have anything to worry about.
@@RhysCallinan-bv1wi and it's entirely likely he passed out after pulling himself ashore, because that takes a lot of energy out of you, so it's entirely believable he saved himself he didn't just happen to be the only person to survive when his ship was miraculously beached ....
Baldwin might as well be the main character in this movie. An ailing king near the end of his short life, watching his kingdom tear itself apart as they all stand at the brink of disaster. We could've focused on his youth as the great hope of a prosperous Jerusalem, fending off Saladin's army and controlling the palace intrigue of his kingdom. But over time, he starts to feel the curse put upon him, as he begin to question his abilities, his life's works, even his faith. And we could've ended with that big-ass entrance with the crusaders all in tow. King Baldwin in his dying breath, deciding to show the world the strength of Jerusalem one last time, stopping a bloody confrontation between his fearful enemy and his own subject. That's just a more interesting movie than some random French emo guy who suddenly became a knight.
It's funny cuz Blooms character fought at Hattin, but was allowed to leave if he promised never to fight Saladin. He was forced to go against it because of the people at Jerusalem, and he wrote a letter to Saladin begging for forgiveness, which he got because Saladin (or Salahadin as his name has been known) was a Chad, the epitome of what a knight should be and highly respected in the Crusading community despite being a Muslim. It's why he and Richard were both pretty well matched.
The part that drives me crazy isn't the historical side or the acting... first Balian is a Gary Stu, immediately a competent warrior, immediately a competent landkeeper and nobleman, the film alleges he's politically savvy but he isn't, and the worst thing is his fling with Sibylla. He's totally comfortable committing adultery with her while prattling about 'a kingdom of conscience' but won't marry the same woman to hold back a war, and this is portrayed as noble. It's just modernity stuffed into the crusades.
Maybe I'm misremembering but it was implied that Balian was also a war veteran before the events of the movie (as a siege engineer), and everyone except Guy had massive love and respect for his father.
@@wangusbeef86 You're not misremembering. The entire reason they even seek Balian out isn't just because he's his father's son, but also because of his own engineering experience. His defense of Jerusalem doesn't come out of nowhere.
It not marrying her that he’s worried about. It’s the killing of Guy and his followers necessary to make the marriage happen he objects to. He says he doesn’t want to be the cause of those deaths.
The thing with Orlando, and i suspect Zendaya, is modelling background - emoting is bad and trained not to express too much on the face, as it causes wrinkles and most photoshoots are done with very specific faces and angles, they are used to show those angles and specific neutral faces and seem deadly afraid of breaking it as it might affect their modelling creed/career if they make an expression that can be seen as ugly.
Uh idk if you’ve watched Zendaya act but since the Disney days she’s never been afraid of emoting lol. Watch her scenes in euphoria she has much more talent than Bloom
Agree. Have always wanted one. But sadly they always fall into Muslim propaganda. As if the Muslims were literally trying to conquer the entire $$$$in planet.
Did watch a several part show of multiple characters like Spartacus, Napoleon and Attila in which one of them was about Richard. Don't remember what it was called, but I remember that Attila looked quite a lot like he was played by Sandor Cleganes (GoT The Hound) actor.
The thing with Orlando Bloom&Onion in Pirates is that he's a good contrast to the more eccentric characters he meets. Not even compared to just Jack and Barbosa, pretty much every pirate has some eccentricities with them either in appearance or acting. Helps to show how out of place he is. Same might not be said for Elizabeth and Norrington, which is also probably why his scenes with either of them tend to be the worst for him.
Very good observation A good director/writer knows how to best utilize an actor and their abilities. In pro wrestling for example, a bad wrestler could look amazing if they were used in the right way
@@slawaboga1433 When I watch him is like I am again doing my history major. He is great and very professional as a historian and as a "teacher" (in lack for a better word).
1:03:02 In defense of Death, they were a band before the term "death metal" was widespread, and they didn't coin that term, ironically. The term came about from either Possessed or Onslaught, as both bands have a song called "Death Metal" that came out in 1984 (and Onslaught isn't even a death metal band just to make it more confusing), while Death didn't release an album until '87, and Leprosy in particular didn't come out until '88. Also listen to Leprosy because it's a very good album. Better than Sabaton if nothing else
Some of my favorite quotes on Blooms acting... "A dead Liam Neeson is acting better." "Almost a smile there... Almost." "Oh God the skeletons are emoting better..." On doing the naughty: "You don't have to make a facial expression, just get it over with..."
I love watching movies set in the medieval times, even the bad ones... They remind me of times when I used to be a medieval peasant, farming cabbages and trying not to get my hut burned down during some war.
@Shad: Self delete is considered a mortal sin by the Catholic Church, therefore you will be sent to the basement. @Metal: Don't speak klingon and pretend it's german! 😁
my biggest gripe with this movie is how muslims in the levant are shown to be enlightened and merciful and the crusaders and christians in general are represented as savages and ignorant people. like muslim rulers didn't sack cities and enslave people , when saladin took jerusalem he enslaved the civilians who couldnt pay their way out. he executed all the templars , hospitalers and other knights of religious orders he captured . In this movie he is overly nice and show to be super reasonable compared to the evil crusaders but at no point in this movie is it mentionned how muslims captured the region from the eastern romans. a region that was majority christian beforehand
@@slawaboga1433if anything napoleon had the same problem with scott's dislike of Napoleon shining through , i don't have a problem with a director having a point of view but when said director tells historical minded people to **get a life** when he get's criticized for poor history
History about the crusades has a lot of anti-christian propaganda due to people in the enlightment hating christianity. The dark ages and the muslim enlightnment ( or whatever it is called) were both products of this. When in reality, the worst thing to happen during the dark ages was people no longer learning greek and the muslims didnt invent anything, christian discoveries were being translated into arabic. The muslims didn't even build their own ships.
I mean it also isn't that far off either. The crusaders were insanely idiotic during the crusades era and their tactics and strategies were retarded. I agree the Muslims were not much better but they were less stupid than the crusaders
I'm glad Lucius Vorenus survived season 2 of Rome and became a Crusader over a millenium later. Too bad Pullo wasn't around to impregnate Eva Green and keep Jerusalem's bloodline strong.
Orlando Bloom looks like Andrew Garfield in Silence, coincidentally another movie about exotic lands and faith starring Liam Neeson. The difference is that Andrew Garfield has talent.
Director: Okay, Mr Bloom, in this scene, you've been knocked unconscious, so I'm gonna need to see you emote like you're ecstatic or depressed to the point of suicide. Bloom: No problem. Also Bloom: 0:00 - 1:56:34.
I used to think "Kingdom Under Heaven" was Ridley Scott's last good movie, before he went insane, but this extended version is the Snyder Cut, before the Snyder Cut.
So about the ear poison, there is a reference to a poison called “Hebenon” in Shakespeare’s work. It is unknown what it is but it’s described as being poured through the ear. I dunno if the director thought he was being super deep or just liked the visual but there’s one possibility.
If this was a fantasy film in a fictional setting it would be among my favorite movies. Unfortunately its 'based on historical events' and is a propaganda piece.
@@SumDumGyi don't see the propaganda as well i think Guy and Reynold being the cartoonishly evil guys is kinda hilarious .but in the historical context Reynold is the guy who broke the peace treaty several times which led to the whole bloodshed thing, i think its fair to depict him as kinda evil but they overcooked it. and in the muslim side they clearly showed how some factions are pushing saladin to war , which is the movie saying 'look bad people here too ' but he didn't see that i guess.
@@khalilbehri5436 Come on. The Muslims are clearly portrayed as justified and just having some slightly mad guys who want to kill the evil invaders that kill random people. And are you telling me the writers didn't know about the slaughters on the Muslim sides? Just slipped their mind I guess. Seriously, the Crusaders are clearly the bad guys, it's not even close. (Plus the good guys in the Crusader side are basically not even Christians and once you realize the knight represents God who literally gets killed in one of the final cut scenes (Even from the extended cut if I recall) then it makes a lot more sense. God is dead and Christians are bad. Lol. Come on.)
@@SumDumGy 1. you know who. 2. You know what for. Its incompetently delivered propaganda, but only someone being intentionally obscurest would miss it. Why are you trying to play dumb here?
I liked parts of this movie. The chess scene is one of my favorite parts. King Baldwin was also an amazing character. For Jerusalem! ✝️ EDIT: Orlando is a bad protagonist but I enjoy the good bits
@r.e.z9428 Yeah it's kind of sad that people don't really talk about it much. I've got issues with it, but it's definitely a film that deserves more recognition. Also, who doesn't love the hot spring scene in that movie lol.
@@SolarDragon007 Im not trying to be hyperbolic either when you usually have this “Oh [Insert Media Here] is underrated” The Northman is a bit of a slow burn, but the acting, dialogue, visuals are all top notch. Its like when I Andor, which I rewatched recently and was so damn surprised by how good it was. Cassian was a tad wooden but I could sympathize with him, the empire was actually competent and intimidating, there was no force or lightsabers, good acting, good characters, there are actual logical consequences to people actions and death is very present. Not to mention the power of plot is almost nowhere to be seen. Itswas such a breath of fresh air, just to see nobody talking about it or actually calling it boring.
I love how all the mid 2000's "Christianity am bad" edge-lord-ery is capped off with the Muslim king very reverently picking up and displaying the Christian cross, so you know that not only are Christians=bad/mean, but Muslim=good/nice.
Theatrical or Directors Cut is the big question. After seeing the DC, it’s so hard to watch the theatrical because of missed story, changes that were made, or the quick glossing over of certain parts
I did a research paper of not his film and it’s accuracy and thought I’d share my findings. I’ll try to keep this brief but this film is a disaster of Hollywood buffoonery. --- Reynold of Chatillon --- I’ll get him out of the way cause he is arguably the most done dirty by this film. Whereas in the film he’s a stupid, conniving, sniveling coward, the real Reynold of Chatillon, also know as Reynold of Tripoli, was known as a very smart, strategic, and chivalric man. Born in France, he was recognized by his talents amongst the nobles. Also his infamous raid was actually not on random Muslim pilgrims, it was an supply trains, one what were feeding and resupplying Saladin’s army. It’s actually likely that since Reynold wouldn’t take action without authorization from a superior, there is a high chance that Baldwin IV himself told him to do it (more. on that in Baldwin’s section) Speaking of Reynolds’s intelligence, he did an extremely impressive raid of the Red Sea that involved him disassembling ships, taking them across the desert, and reassembling them in the water. It’s very interesting and I’d recommend you all looking it up. Also slight nitpick, but according to William of Tyre, he was described as slightly shorter than the average man, with dark hair and tanned skin. So as cool as Brenden Gleason is, he is completely inaccurate visually. --- Guy of Lusignan --- So I feel like I don’t need to say this, but he wasn’t a mustache twirling cartoon villain. When Baldwin married Sabylla to him, it was because on paper he was a good match, as he was connected to a few powerful families in Europe and the Byzantine Empire. But in reality he was very inexperienced in war. In one battle Guy actually managed to defeat Saladin in a major engagement (defeat may be a strong word, more like held him off till Saladin gave up). And Baldwin chastised him for not pursuing him, instead Guy stayed put when he could have finished off Saladin’s army while he retreated. He was not present at the raid with Reynold. It’s mentioned by Carl, but Sabylla did actually like Guy, which is why she still made him king even though Baldwin and many other nobles disliked him at the time. After the fall of Jerusalem, he kept the title of king for a few years after on technicality. --- Saladin --- So in the raid that Reynold commited, Saladin’s sister wasn’t there. This idea seems to come from a single source. A credible source don’t get me wrong, but this particular point is contested. Mainly because Saladin absolutely would not let his sisters travel around in a random caravan. Saladin always protected his two sisters while they were on pilgrimage, as he was a political figure and having them taken hostage would be very bad for him. But there are cases that he would personally lead a small army to make sure they were safe on route to holy sights. Showing that he really cared about them beyond just politics. Say what you want about Saladin but he clearly held his family in very high regard. One fact that seems to be completely omitted by the film was the fact that he was in conflict with most of his Muslim neighbors throughout his lifetime, in fact the reason he was trying to conquer Jerusalem was to give him more legitimacy as the self proclaimed uniter of Islam. Obviously Saladin is a very long lived person with a very long career in military and politics, but it would have been nice to at least have a passing line about his conflicts with the other Islamic nations. I find it funny that the movie has a scene where Saladin is looking on distraught by the amount of dead around him, when historically he has been the cause of a LOT of deaths all across the Middle East. He was still a brutal warlord, but since he was more considered to his enemies than many others were at the time. His “kindness” has been exaggerated over many years by media. I do love Carl’s summery of why the Muslims are there, “we want it because you want it”. Historically that is absolutely true, as the Levant wasn’t cared much for by the Muslims, even leaving to come to ruin. See Mark Twain’s writings on his visit to Jerusalem. Muslims only seemed to want it when others are holding onto it. Lastly on Saladin was how in the end, he holds up a cross to symbolize that he would also let Christians into Jerusalem. While it is true that he allowed Christians to enter the city (there are conflicting reports that he did the same with the Jews), this policy did not last. As after he was no longer in control of the territory the following Muslim rulers continued to restrict other religions from entering. And just like before the first crusade, violence and robbery against pilgrims continued. The crusades after the fall of Jerusalem were initiated in order to continue the protections of the pilgrims. The following Crusades, while they never accomplished their ultimate goal of taking back Jerusalem, they spanked the Muslims enough to force them to allow Christians to complete their pilgrimage, and offer them more protections on their way there. --- Balian of Ibelin --- Not much to say here that hasn’t already been said, but Balian was not an atheist, that’s just some Ridley Scott bull. And obviously he was not born in France, his family was from France but he was born in Ibelin, hence his name. I did find it hilarious when the EFAP cast pointed out how dumb it is that the desert dwelling population of the Levant had no idea how to cultivate the desert, but they needed a Western European from a temperate climate to show them how to live in the desert. - Baldwin IV - This is the most interesting of these comparisons, as Baldwin’s on screen portrayal is actually mostly ok, at least on a surface level. He was highly intelligent and learned, and without a doubt an incredible leader. However…the biggest discrepancy between the movie in real life was that he was not a ruler that prioritized peace between the Muslims at all cost. The peace that was described in the film actually was only a truce that was meant to last 2 years, this was put in place to give the Crusaders time to regroup, but also gave Saladin opportunity to deal with his Muslim rivals the Zengids in his north. However Reynold of Chatillon’s raid occurred in the latter half of the second year of the truce. This was likely done in order to weaken Saladin’s army while he was still fighting the Zengids, and thus making them weaker to the Crusaders. There is also the fact that while Baldwin sent word to Saladin regretting the raid, there is no record of Baldwin punishing Reynold about his actions. This is why many speculate that Baldwin himself sanctioned the raid. Baldwin IV was in fact a pragmatic king, that knew when to go on the offensive when Jerusalem needed to, and also was aware that peace with his enemies was not going to happen. There’s probably a few more that I’ve missed, but these are the main points of contention with the characters in Kingdom of Heaven, so not only is the movie not good, it basically insults everyone in at least some way, not just the Christians.
Look as much as I enjoy the panel of personalities, I think it became too often that they lost the plot of the video. This isn't really EFAP anymore it just turned into a contest on who could come up with the most witty nitpick just for laughs. They became too distracted by themselves that it wasn't about the movie anymore, and even used that distraction to justify how "boring" and "bad" the movie really is. Am not saying they can't enjoy themselves or poke fun at the movie, all am saying is it got out of control. Personally I was excited to watch the video expecting a good time full of witty and mostly valid criticisms from a panel who has always presented themselves as intellectuals who are great at deconstructing certain forms of entertainment media. I expected to come out of this video with new knowledge and different perspective, but in the end it was just empty disappointment.
I love how this movie makes Saladin look like such a saint, when he was one of the biggest cowards in Medieval history who consistently lost against one angry Norman while commanding a massively overwhelming force.
Compared to most medieval rulers, saladin was a saint, so much so that European writers wrote fanfictions of Richard the Lionheart meeting up and having chivalric duels. This movie makes Baldwin looks like a saint as well lmao. Its a romanticisation of history, and both the kings managed to earn the respect of their enemies. Might be a bit salty cause ya lost the holy land to the big lad.
@@sarwatarannya8786 Saladin quite literally wouldn't be caught dead honouring Richard with a duel. He wouldn't even fight with his own cavalry and retreated whenever they were pressed.
Ahh, my Norman ancestors were certainly tough sons of bitches lol. Transferred to Canadians, as we had a brutal reputation during the world wars (killed surrendering Germans to save food, raiding emplacements in blizzards, etc). We were even founded by a drunken Scot!
@@TroopertrollTo be fair to Saladin, anyone trying to fight Richard in a duel was asking to die. He's up there with figures like Pyrrhus in terms of being an absolute gigachad on the battlefield. Saladin fighting one on one with Richard would be like Paris fighting Menelaus in the Troy movie. He'd just get abused in 4K.
My biggest issue with the film was Bloom's character just keeps getting put in charge of everything as soon as he shows up... no one even asks him for a resume'. Outside of that.... I like the film.
I remember being a teen and my father gifting me my first PS3, and Kingdom of Heaven came with it. Good times. The DVD must be around my room, somewhere. And yep this extended cut is weird. I also remember really liking it, but Mr. Bloom there I didn't remember him being soooo daaaamm blaaaaaand. Great vid lads!
Nothing annoys me more than the Hollywood Medieval Atheist. Yes sure people would chafe at religion in the past. But they'd pretty much always do it as a sort of personal rebuke by the gods.
you'd definitely have to be more coy about it, because the power of the church pretty much always outmatched yours, so being openly atheist was a quick way to losing everything
@@petriew2018 first you'd need to conceive of not believing in the gods. You are a man concerned with primary survival necessities. You go to church each day for mass. What time do you have to even think of not believing?
@@techMan_25 I mean as an atheist raised catholic, it was easy for me to believe the self-hating western narrative that christians were bad, evil invaders and Salah ad-Din was the wise enlightened man, especially considering the claims of "being accurate" that Scott made at the time. Then I learned how more complex everything was, riconsidered some things taking into account the Ottoman aggressive expansionism and on and on. Now this movie is basically unwatchable to me. My respect for Scott (especially after Napoleon and related interviews) has plummeted to zero.
@@techMan_25 The preceding literal hundreds of years of aggressive Muslim wars and atrocities against Christian nations before the 1st Crusade gets conveniently glossed over or omitted from most discussions of the topic to characterize the Crusades as unjustified.
@@PanzerblitzRnRi feel like that isn't 100% relevant considering the historical takeaway of the crusades is how much of a collosal failure they were, no? How they didn't really accomplish much except pillaging and looting in the name of God, and still they didn't even reach their goal? I don't think there's much to defend in regards to the Crusades, its always an experience when i see someone try it.
@@techMan_25 as an atheist raised catholic, it was pretty easy for me to believe the western self-hating view of Christian bad and evil invaders going against the wise Salah ad-Din, especially considering the claims of historical accuracy Scott made at the time. Later on, I learned how more complex the situation was, about islamic expanionism and the wider picture. In other words, how (as in most wars), there were no "good" and "bad" guys really. So now this movie is basically unwatchable for me, especially after my respect for Scott plummeted to zero due to Napoleon and related interviews... 😅
I enjoyed the battle scenes in this movie, and a lot of the character moments (even if Orlando Bloom's acting could be better at times). Historically though it's a mess and obviously has bias against the Crusaders and for the Muslims. That said, there aren't too many other Crusades movies I can think of that have the nice large set piece battles. So a flawed movie, but one I still enjoy re-watching from time to time.
"When the Pope says God's commanded it, you just find a way I guess." - Drinker I mean... God is *THE* Deus Ex Machina, of all deus ex machinas, Drinker.
Im starting to question if Ridley Scott's legacy of being a great filmmaker was a fluke. Between this and all the films he's done lately, im struggling to see if he's done any good films since Alien and Blade Runner. I suppose gladiator will be the final decider on that one, but between this and Napoleon, im not confident in his ability to make historical films
16:45 There were indeed longswords during this period, they were still extremely rare and PROBABLY not used in the way depicted, as those are techniques similar to Talhoffer or Fiore De Libre, from the 15th century, but longswords/hand and a half swords did TECHNICALLY exist. There's an example of one in Glasgow dated between the 1100-1200's, and a bastard sword from a similar period in the Royal Armouries collection although sadly not on display.
I recently rewatched the Director's Cut of this movie. Historically it is shit. Orlando Bloom is a bad actor. The camera choices are weird at times. (The sun does not shine in Europe, and the repeatedly used small shutter angle.) The exclusively evil Christians, exclusively virtuous Muslims, and pervasive edgy atheism felt out of place. I kinda liked it.
@@Boromir2k1 They had a skit in the trailer for this War Arc where they question that concept themselves. They kinda just threw that word War at the title.
So I decided to check on the suicide thing in religion and I did my journalistic investigation and checked only one site and they wrote: Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide. Individuals who commit suicide are usually suffering from some psychological or emotional condition that overwhelms them and impairs their ability to fully understand and freely choose their actions, and therefore they would not necessarily be culpable for their actions.
i dont know if it's just a catholic thing, but many priests over the decades/centuries have painted suicide in such a negative light... it can be a bit weird. *personal anecdote time. had a cousin perform the action, and their local priest didnt want to be part of the mourning nor the funeral service. it didnt seem like the local church said or did anything, it was the priest's personal feeling.
The Catholic Church was very much against suicide, considering it a mortal sin (refusing the gift of life, denying the will of God etc). So you'd go straight to Hell if you were a suicide, since you could not repent and get absolved once you're dead. Also, the suicides were denied christian burial and could not be buried in consecrated ground. Hence the scene in Hamlet where they bury Ofelia and the doubt whether it was suicide or just an accident... In time (as late as 20th century) the Church stance mellowed to what you found.
It's funny how much acclaim this movie gets when it's arguably one of the first heavily PC flicks out of Hollywood. It presents Crusaders as greedy, unrelenting assholes who kill every Muslim they see while the Seljuk governate simply wants peace. It's like the director and writers had beef against Christianity and possibly wanted to convert to Islam.
For context: this film was one of many series of Ridley films from this point to Exodus: Gods and Kings as an exploration of faith as an excuse for power… even Prometheus is an extension of these motifs. Personally, this film is what made me fascinated with history, even when this badly portrays the subject matter. I noticed the questioning of motive by the time Sybila kills her son. When her own logic was being questioned by Tiberius the next scene after the burning wax revelation, you guys pointed out that this is awful for the whole kingdom and yet she acknowledges that in the film. She lost her purpose in her kingdom as she has a child that will undergo the same pains as her dearest brother. It became more about her selfishness. The exploding bushes bit is also the most overt attempt at Scott portraying his own journey as an atheist with Balian, a historical figure, to be sacrificed into becoming a random French man in an unknown world. This same scene is where people start to question the purpose of the priest turned knight as he becomes more of like his “guardian angel” a figure that personifies the holy land only to die with it: i.e. the Battle of Hattin. Also the reason why the location looked like that for Jerusalem is because of the shooting location in Morocco. I prefer the director’s cut and while yea Scott has yet to surpass his best historical film “the Duelists”, this has a pretty good behind the scenes content clocking in at 10 hours. At some frames of this film they are utilizing 5,000 extras. That’s all I have to say, I have more but this was fun to listen to while at work.
This EFAP has pushed me beyond the point of no return. Alien will always be among my all-time favorites, but I think Ridley Scott is just a bad filmmaker who occasionally stumbles upon something good.
One thing that should be mentioned for the Crusades is that fairly few nobles went, it was almost a family affair. The nobles that would go brought their family members into it, if a king went his nation didn't go with him, his uncles, brothers and nephews would. It was the same for any lords that went. Europe did not mobilize, very devote families did, there would have likely been more gains had more people participated. It was also due to the families that refused to go that ended the crusades, in part, they argued they were too costly.
Nah I watched this a few weeks back and I don't see it. Orlando Bloom is fine in this role. Critical Drinker is already going at him for brooding over his wife. That's the character.
You guys need to actually watch the damn films sometimes. Or put on subtitles. The frenchmen ambush them because they wanted to killed the lord and blacksmith son because they could challenege or take away the current lords power and lands. They were sent to kill, using the skaying of the oriest as a cover
I actually really like this movie, especially the extended cut, but Bloom is surrounded by far better actors. I always thought that was the point though, hes just some blacksmith from nowhere plucked from obscurrity for no great noble reason while all these grand leaders and politicans are manuevering around whats happening.
I've seen bits and pieces of this movie over the years - and some of it looks cool, and there are some pretty iconic shots I see still used today But I also remember the film getting pilloried by critics and viewers alike when it came out Nearly 20 years later and Ridley Scott apparently learned nothing before releasing Napoleon Why make historical epics if you don't appear to care about.. you know.. history
To be fair to the blue light in night scenes, not only is it better than not seeing a fucking thing, but it's also at least partially accurate to Earth lore. The night sky looks black as can be for most of us because most of us live in cities, while the night sky is actually mostly blue without light pollution. You can actually see in open areas relatively well in a full moon, though obviously not as well as in the day, and caves and forests are a whole other issue of actually being pitch black.
Sargon of Akkad complaining about Orlando Bloom's acting is the only thing that brings me joy in life.
He wasn't that bad.
Bloom is actually very good in Kingdom of Heaven.
@@STTPMASFTNE His amazing range of 🗿 to🗿really blew me away
I agree!
funny af, he never give him a break
Training from Liam Neeson results in:
Knighthood (a few minutes)
Batman (a montage)
Jedi Knighthood (a lifetime, offscreen)
You mean Liam Neeson?
I used to be a KnightBatJed like you but then I took an arrow in the Neeson.
So did everybody just forget Rob Roy? Because seeing what he did to Timothy Roth in that flic is something I will never forget
You forgot the most important one: Becoming the monarchs of a fantasy land full of furries who don't understand what a spare room is.
@@Chris-dy9gw No it’s just that Rob Roy’s still on my list of things to watch. :3
Orlando Bloom being the lone survivor of a shipwreck is because he's such a wooden actor. Heh.
This shouldn't be funny, but it is.
I want you to know that was absurdly cheesy and I love it
This same crew but EFAP Monty Python Holy Grail 😂
Yes please
The blue jeans are historically accurate.
Add the Trumb movies to that.. New Thumb Wars movie coming in May btw.
'cause he's Aragorn.
I'm so excited. Mauler did hint that they slowly start to realize Orlando Bloom is not a good actor throughout the War Arch.
i think he ran into a weird scenario where he was not being themed well, and just ended up inbetween multiple character archetypes. kinda in a reverse style of the plank of wood nowadays, except it ends up looking just as bad
I'm hyped for the Pirates arc more than the guy who wants long kong
@@jackbauer5229no Long Kong better
@@proudsaiyanprince2651all hail long Kong, chosen of the Don.
He needs someone at his side, i.e. a more experienced performer, to light him up. He works well alongside Viggo Mortensen, Johnny Depp or even Eric Bana. Hell, the best performance I've ever seen him give was that South African crime movie he did with Forest Withaker and he was the lead in that one, not FW! So he can be leading material! But Ridley Scott isn't known as an actors' director, and poor Orlando was clearly left on his own with a dull, overly long script that keeps meandering and gives him nothing. He feels awkward throughout the whole thing.
"I once fought for three days with an arrow through my testicle" 😆😁😁
Skyrim guy can consider himself lucky by taking an arrow only to his knee.
Haven’t we all...
Is that how the Austrian painter lost his ball?
Color me super excited.
I took multiple Medieval Europe courses for my master's, specialized in Classical World like Ancient Rome, Greece, and Mesopotamia, took courses on the Middle East and Islamic empires, and in my senior year Crusades course we watched this movie at the end of Finals and critiqued it for its historic absurdity.
In other words: I've been looking forward to this.
Ironically your education in this space probably took less time than getting this from recording to premiere
I’ve not seen this movie before, but before even watching just based on my knowledge of history and the context clues I’m assuming this is going to be yet another in a very long line of “look how moral the Muslims are and how evil the west is”?
Yeah. The plot is unironically trash. It's really baffling. The fight scenes would be good in another movie though.
@@finchvalorNot this time. This film takes a very balanced stance on both sides and I respect that.
@@SumDumGy No, this movie was heavily criticized by the historic community for its pro-Muslim sentiments. It consistently portrays the Europeans as marble-brained barbarians while the Muslims under Salah Al-Din are consistently portrayed as paragons of virtue and martial honor. Both depictions are wrong, and this film absolutely does not take a balanced stance for both sides.
This week, I finally showed my best friend the extended Lord of the Rings Trilogy, and he loved it so much we watched the last six hours in one sitting. Then the next day he told me how great season 2 of Halo is 💀
😂😂😂😂
The duality of Man...
get a new friend
@@DbonnRPjust cause he has a different taste doesn't mean you need to find a new one. You're terrible in the first place
“I mean, what’s the problem with his acting?”
“The acting”
What acting?
There can't be a problem if there's no acting. 😉👈
I always crack up at Orlando Bloom's armor leveling up throughout this movie lol the cool blue armor at the end is the quintessential end game armor you get just before the final area.
Drinker - “How actually do you wash ashore, unconscious and not die?!”
Aragorn starts sweating
we can allow that in a fantasy world where magic exists ,while this is a historical'ish movie , and aragon fell into a river not a sea/ocean ship
@@Goseh on top of all that, he is a
Númenórean blessed by elves. 😁
To be fair it was a river that wasn't turbulent, unlike the ocean that was in the middle of a storm. Also Bailan had to deal with ship wreckage, while Aragorn didn't have anything to worry about.
@@RhysCallinan-bv1wi and it's entirely likely he passed out after pulling himself ashore, because that takes a lot of energy out of you, so it's entirely believable he saved himself
he didn't just happen to be the only person to survive when his ship was miraculously beached ....
Listen...
King Baldwin is the best part of this movie
Which one?
@@SumDumGysilver mask king.
@@jonsimpson6240 I figured but I wanted to josh you a bit because there were two.
@@SumDumGy in that movie? I think I knew there was two, but not represented in the film.
@jonsimpson6240 the young boy. If memory serves, when he was named heir, he was named Baldwin V
Lol, Shad going "from memory,... this battle,..." I knew he was old, i didn't know he was THAT old...😂
Drinker needed to see Tatiana, he couldn’t handle the movie anymore lol
Honestly, that's fair.
Baldwin might as well be the main character in this movie. An ailing king near the end of his short life, watching his kingdom tear itself apart as they all stand at the brink of disaster.
We could've focused on his youth as the great hope of a prosperous Jerusalem, fending off Saladin's army and controlling the palace intrigue of his kingdom. But over time, he starts to feel the curse put upon him, as he begin to question his abilities, his life's works, even his faith. And we could've ended with that big-ass entrance with the crusaders all in tow. King Baldwin in his dying breath, deciding to show the world the strength of Jerusalem one last time, stopping a bloody confrontation between his fearful enemy and his own subject.
That's just a more interesting movie than some random French emo guy who suddenly became a knight.
The Baldwin scenes are the reason why this movie is still remembered by people.
Ridley Scott loves the French. Always has strange effects on his movies.
@@Pink.andahalf napoleon is proof he hates corisicans (And men)
It's funny cuz Blooms character fought at Hattin, but was allowed to leave if he promised never to fight Saladin. He was forced to go against it because of the people at Jerusalem, and he wrote a letter to Saladin begging for forgiveness, which he got because Saladin (or Salahadin as his name has been known) was a Chad, the epitome of what a knight should be and highly respected in the Crusading community despite being a Muslim. It's why he and Richard were both pretty well matched.
Especially considering Balian’s entire backstory is a Hollywood fabrication. He was actually born in Ibelan. He wasn’t French.
Ridley Scott wanted Paul Bettany. The studio demanded Orlando. Sigh, what could have been . . .
Holy shit yeah i hadnt heard that. wow yeah that would have been amazing.
Dang that would have been so different
That could have been amazing! Instead, we got a wooden bloom.
The part that drives me crazy isn't the historical side or the acting... first Balian is a Gary Stu, immediately a competent warrior, immediately a competent landkeeper and nobleman, the film alleges he's politically savvy but he isn't, and the worst thing is his fling with Sibylla.
He's totally comfortable committing adultery with her while prattling about 'a kingdom of conscience' but won't marry the same woman to hold back a war, and this is portrayed as noble. It's just modernity stuffed into the crusades.
It’s more he won’t kill Guy until it is proven he’s guilty of something other than being a dick.
Maybe I'm misremembering but it was implied that Balian was also a war veteran before the events of the movie (as a siege engineer), and everyone except Guy had massive love and respect for his father.
@@wangusbeef86 You're not misremembering. The entire reason they even seek Balian out isn't just because he's his father's son, but also because of his own engineering experience. His defense of Jerusalem doesn't come out of nowhere.
It not marrying her that he’s worried about. It’s the killing of Guy and his followers necessary to make the marriage happen he objects to. He says he doesn’t want to be the cause of those deaths.
The thing with Orlando, and i suspect Zendaya, is modelling background - emoting is bad and trained not to express too much on the face, as it causes wrinkles and most photoshoots are done with very specific faces and angles, they are used to show those angles and specific neutral faces and seem deadly afraid of breaking it as it might affect their modelling creed/career if they make an expression that can be seen as ugly.
The difference being one of these former models has helped bring us some entertaining and great movies.
The other is Zendaya.
This is why he makes such a good Elf. The beauty, pride and vanity are all completely internal for him.
Uh idk if you’ve watched Zendaya act but since the Disney days she’s never been afraid of emoting lol. Watch her scenes in euphoria she has much more talent than Bloom
@emkenobi Everyone just saw her making one vaguely mad facial expression for 2 hours in Dune Part 2. Not a great impression of her skills.
@Pink.andahalf Yeah, she was easily the weakest part of Dune Part 2 in terms of both her acting and they way they wrote Chani.
At least we know now where Jet Li got his inspiration for his vast variety of facial expressions in Mulan Live Action...
We really need a good historical Crusade movie or tv show about Richard the Lionheart vs Saladin.
Agree. Have always wanted one. But sadly they always fall into Muslim propaganda. As if the Muslims were literally trying to conquer the entire $$$$in planet.
Did watch a several part show of multiple characters like Spartacus, Napoleon and Attila in which one of them was about Richard. Don't remember what it was called, but I remember that Attila looked quite a lot like he was played by Sandor Cleganes (GoT The Hound) actor.
I'd like one on the Children's Crusade and how it was just a scam and human trafficking deal between the West and the leaders of the Islamic world.
"You went from chainmail to chained up in jail, till mommy drained England to pay for your bail"
Knights of the cross written by the guy that runs the real crusades history channel here on Yt
The thing with Orlando Bloom&Onion in Pirates is that he's a good contrast to the more eccentric characters he meets. Not even compared to just Jack and Barbosa, pretty much every pirate has some eccentricities with them either in appearance or acting. Helps to show how out of place he is.
Same might not be said for Elizabeth and Norrington, which is also probably why his scenes with either of them tend to be the worst for him.
Very good observation
A good director/writer knows how to best utilize an actor and their abilities. In pro wrestling for example, a bad wrestler could look amazing if they were used in the right way
Apostolic Majesty on UA-cam does an excellent breakdown of how horribly this movie butchers the history and the ethos of the Middle Ages.
Underrated channel
AM's kingdom of heaven video is real good rat
Shoutout to one of the best history channels on YT
@@slawaboga1433 When I watch him is like I am again doing my history major. He is great and very professional as a historian and as a "teacher" (in lack for a better word).
Hadn’t come across this Channel but saw this post - great recommendation
A Orlando Bloom movie, starring Orland Blood as... Orlando Bloom.
I'm not convinced by Bloom in that role. I don't think he did a good job portraying the subtleties of his character.
Orland Blood, the evil Orlando Bloom that can act
Star Grift died so this could live it’s sacrifice will not be forgotten
It’s not a sacrifice at all. I walked away from that one before it ended.
how'd it die? I was never interested in sw theory, so im out of loop here.
@@janehrahan5116 Mauler and Ryan had to drop out because of busy scheduling like video making, prep time, and streaming for their own channels
More like Super Chat with Ryan and Mauler.
@@nhagan001- still better than Real BBC
1:03:02 In defense of Death, they were a band before the term "death metal" was widespread, and they didn't coin that term, ironically. The term came about from either Possessed or Onslaught, as both bands have a song called "Death Metal" that came out in 1984 (and Onslaught isn't even a death metal band just to make it more confusing), while Death didn't release an album until '87, and Leprosy in particular didn't come out until '88.
Also listen to Leprosy because it's a very good album. Better than Sabaton if nothing else
To make it even more fun, when Death went by "Mantas", the released a demo titled "Death by Metal"...also in 1984
@@TheStonedZone I forgot about that demo lol. Everyone can take their pick of where the term came from I guess
can you imagine anything more glorious than being in the thick of battle and hearing one of your guys say in Sargon's voice "We're crusading now boys"
Some of my favorite quotes on Blooms acting...
"A dead Liam Neeson is acting better."
"Almost a smile there... Almost."
"Oh God the skeletons are emoting better..."
On doing the naughty: "You don't have to make a facial expression, just get it over with..."
Love Colonisation
Love the Crusades
Love Europe
Love Christ and God
Simple az
King Baldwin IV of Jerusalem is just the coolest mfer
The name Baldwin would probably give xqc a heart attack
I love watching movies set in the medieval times, even the bad ones... They remind me of times when I used to be a medieval peasant, farming cabbages and trying not to get my hut burned down during some war.
Ahh.. simpler times
@Shad: Self delete is considered a mortal sin by the Catholic Church, therefore you will be sent to the basement.
@Metal: Don't speak klingon and pretend it's german! 😁
I greatly appreciate the Mount & Blade humor
You better not be a man hunter!
It's almost Harvesting Season
my biggest gripe with this movie is how muslims in the levant are shown to be enlightened and merciful and the crusaders and christians in general are represented as savages and ignorant people. like muslim rulers didn't sack cities and enslave people , when saladin took jerusalem he enslaved the civilians who couldnt pay their way out. he executed all the templars , hospitalers and other knights of religious orders he captured . In this movie he is overly nice and show to be super reasonable compared to the evil crusaders but at no point in this movie is it mentionned how muslims captured the region from the eastern romans. a region that was majority christian beforehand
@@slawaboga1433if anything napoleon had the same problem with scott's dislike of Napoleon shining through , i don't have a problem with a director having a point of view but when said director tells historical minded people to **get a life** when he get's criticized for poor history
History about the crusades has a lot of anti-christian propaganda due to people in the enlightment hating christianity. The dark ages and the muslim enlightnment ( or whatever it is called) were both products of this. When in reality, the worst thing to happen during the dark ages was people no longer learning greek and the muslims didnt invent anything, christian discoveries were being translated into arabic. The muslims didn't even build their own ships.
I mean it also isn't that far off either. The crusaders were insanely idiotic during the crusades era and their tactics and strategies were retarded. I agree the Muslims were not much better but they were less stupid than the crusaders
I'm glad Lucius Vorenus survived season 2 of Rome and became a Crusader over a millenium later. Too bad Pullo wasn't around to impregnate Eva Green and keep Jerusalem's bloodline strong.
He survived Rome only to be lost at sea.
It was quite a journey
That Mauler "you're so ridiculously evil. Fuck." Is such a great edit. Love it.
Timestamp?
@@camillecunningham7348
1:17:00
@@callumunga5253 Thanks
Orlando Bloom looks like Andrew Garfield in Silence, coincidentally another movie about exotic lands and faith starring Liam Neeson.
The difference is that Andrew Garfield has talent.
Silence is also not historically accurate.
Garfield's head looks too big for his body. Don't insult Orlando like that 😄
Good film too
@@shamrockdragon7634silence wasnt trying to be. They were adapting a book
I would adore a episode dedicated to the 13th Warrior. Excellent movie.
Bandaris is epic.
Yes, but is it EFAP material? That’s always the question.
@@SumDumGy Efap movie material at the very least
@@ShakalakaKing Thats what we’re talking about and I don’t think it is.
@@SumDumGy yeah, the problem with watching good movies in this format is they often have little to actually say
Director: Okay, Mr Bloom, in this scene, you've been knocked unconscious, so I'm gonna need to see you emote like you're ecstatic or depressed to the point of suicide.
Bloom: No problem.
Also Bloom: 0:00 - 1:56:34.
I used to think "Kingdom Under Heaven" was Ridley Scott's last good movie, before he went insane, but this extended version is the Snyder Cut, before the Snyder Cut.
It’s a Rebel Moon before the Rebel Moon
Except the theatrical cut didn’t make any real sense. This is what the movie was before the studio forced him to cut it below two hours.
Blacksmith, I am going into battle and I require only your strongest weapons.
My weapons are too strong for you, knight.
The rejection of historical innaccuracies is great to see. You're more informed than most professional critics it seems.
The edit about night lighting. 😂
I also appreciate your use of words like 'floomping'.
'phleem tisms'
Wumbo words
So about the ear poison, there is a reference to a poison called “Hebenon” in Shakespeare’s work. It is unknown what it is but it’s described as being poured through the ear. I dunno if the director thought he was being super deep or just liked the visual but there’s one possibility.
Movie: Europe suffers repression and poverty
Drinker: "i see some s**t never changes then"
😂😂 dead
If this was a fantasy film in a fictional setting it would be among my favorite movies. Unfortunately its 'based on historical events' and is a propaganda piece.
Couldn't have been said better.
Propaganda for whom? The bad guys on both sides or the good guys on both sides?
@@SumDumGyi don't see the propaganda as well
i think Guy and Reynold being the cartoonishly evil guys is kinda hilarious .but in the historical context Reynold is the guy who broke the peace treaty several times which led to the whole bloodshed thing, i think its fair to depict him as kinda evil but they overcooked it. and in the muslim side they clearly showed how some factions are pushing saladin to war , which is the movie saying 'look bad people here too ' but he didn't see that i guess.
@@khalilbehri5436 Come on. The Muslims are clearly portrayed as justified and just having some slightly mad guys who want to kill the evil invaders that kill random people. And are you telling me the writers didn't know about the slaughters on the Muslim sides? Just slipped their mind I guess. Seriously, the Crusaders are clearly the bad guys, it's not even close.
(Plus the good guys in the Crusader side are basically not even Christians and once you realize the knight represents God who literally gets killed in one of the final cut scenes (Even from the extended cut if I recall) then it makes a lot more sense. God is dead and Christians are bad. Lol. Come on.)
@@SumDumGy 1. you know who. 2. You know what for.
Its incompetently delivered propaganda, but only someone being intentionally obscurest would miss it. Why are you trying to play dumb here?
Orlando Bloom isn't acting poorly, he's moving different.
I liked parts of this movie. The chess scene is one of my favorite parts. King Baldwin was also an amazing character. For Jerusalem! ✝️
EDIT: Orlando is a bad protagonist but I enjoy the good bits
Are we going to be getting a 13th Warrior EFAP? Cause Im all for it.
Came here to say this!
Wish The Northman was part of the War Arc.
@@SolarDragon007 Underrated film
@r.e.z9428 Yeah it's kind of sad that people don't really talk about it much. I've got issues with it, but it's definitely a film that deserves more recognition. Also, who doesn't love the hot spring scene in that movie lol.
@@SolarDragon007 Im not trying to be hyperbolic either when you usually have this “Oh [Insert Media Here] is underrated” The Northman is a bit of a slow burn, but the acting, dialogue, visuals are all top notch. Its like when I Andor, which I rewatched recently and was so damn surprised by how good it was. Cassian was a tad wooden but I could sympathize with him, the empire was actually competent and intimidating, there was no force or lightsabers, good acting, good characters, there are actual logical consequences to people actions and death is very present. Not to mention the power of plot is almost nowhere to be seen. Itswas such a breath of fresh air, just to see nobody talking about it or actually calling it boring.
I love how all the mid 2000's "Christianity am bad" edge-lord-ery is capped off with the Muslim king very reverently picking up and displaying the Christian cross, so you know that not only are Christians=bad/mean, but Muslim=good/nice.
It wasn't really though, we were just following the christian side. It seems balanced.
Theatrical or Directors Cut is the big question. After seeing the DC, it’s so hard to watch the theatrical because of missed story, changes that were made, or the quick glossing over of certain parts
This is the DC.
DC is the only one worth watching. Theatrical is a hack job.
Reminds me of that other collection of Orlando Bloom films in that regard.
In Troy, they seriously fucked up the Hector vs Achilles fight by replacing the epic soundtrack with a worse one.
@@anonymouscrow5849this directors cut is actually garbage compared to the hack job
I love that orlando bloom single handedly solved every problem and researched every tech. Hes like the player in a civilization game.
I did a research paper of not his film and it’s accuracy and thought I’d share my findings. I’ll try to keep this brief but this film is a disaster of Hollywood buffoonery.
--- Reynold of Chatillon ---
I’ll get him out of the way cause he is arguably the most done dirty by this film. Whereas in the film he’s a stupid, conniving, sniveling coward, the real Reynold of Chatillon, also know as Reynold of Tripoli, was known as a very smart, strategic, and chivalric man.
Born in France, he was recognized by his talents amongst the nobles.
Also his infamous raid was actually not on random Muslim pilgrims, it was an supply trains, one what were feeding and resupplying Saladin’s army.
It’s actually likely that since Reynold wouldn’t take action without authorization from a superior, there is a high chance that Baldwin IV himself told him to do it (more. on that in Baldwin’s section)
Speaking of Reynolds’s intelligence, he did an extremely impressive raid of the Red Sea that involved him disassembling ships, taking them across the desert, and reassembling them in the water. It’s very interesting and I’d recommend you all looking it up.
Also slight nitpick, but according to William of Tyre, he was described as slightly shorter than the average man, with dark hair and tanned skin. So as cool as Brenden Gleason is, he is completely inaccurate visually.
--- Guy of Lusignan ---
So I feel like I don’t need to say this, but he wasn’t a mustache twirling cartoon villain. When Baldwin married Sabylla to him, it was because on paper he was a good match, as he was connected to a few powerful families in Europe and the Byzantine Empire. But in reality he was very inexperienced in war. In one battle Guy actually managed to defeat Saladin in a major engagement (defeat may be a strong word, more like held him off till Saladin gave up). And Baldwin chastised him for not pursuing him, instead Guy stayed put when he could have finished off Saladin’s army while he retreated.
He was not present at the raid with Reynold.
It’s mentioned by Carl, but Sabylla did actually like Guy, which is why she still made him king even though Baldwin and many other nobles disliked him at the time.
After the fall of Jerusalem, he kept the title of king for a few years after on technicality.
--- Saladin ---
So in the raid that Reynold commited, Saladin’s sister wasn’t there. This idea seems to come from a single source. A credible source don’t get me wrong, but this particular point is contested. Mainly because Saladin absolutely would not let his sisters travel around in a random caravan.
Saladin always protected his two sisters while they were on pilgrimage, as he was a political figure and having them taken hostage would be very bad for him. But there are cases that he would personally lead a small army to make sure they were safe on route to holy sights. Showing that he really cared about them beyond just politics.
Say what you want about Saladin but he clearly held his family in very high regard.
One fact that seems to be completely omitted by the film was the fact that he was in conflict with most of his Muslim neighbors throughout his lifetime, in fact the reason he was trying to conquer Jerusalem was to give him more legitimacy as the self proclaimed uniter of Islam.
Obviously Saladin is a very long lived person with a very long career in military and politics, but it would have been nice to at least have a passing line about his conflicts with the other Islamic nations.
I find it funny that the movie has a scene where Saladin is looking on distraught by the amount of dead around him, when historically he has been the cause of a LOT of deaths all across the Middle East.
He was still a brutal warlord, but since he was more considered to his enemies than many others were at the time. His “kindness” has been exaggerated over many years by media.
I do love Carl’s summery of why the Muslims are there, “we want it because you want it”. Historically that is absolutely true, as the Levant wasn’t cared much for by the Muslims, even leaving to come to ruin. See Mark Twain’s writings on his visit to Jerusalem. Muslims only seemed to want it when others are holding onto it.
Lastly on Saladin was how in the end, he holds up a cross to symbolize that he would also let Christians into Jerusalem.
While it is true that he allowed Christians to enter the city (there are conflicting reports that he did the same with the Jews), this policy did not last. As after he was no longer in control of the territory the following Muslim rulers continued to restrict other religions from entering. And just like before the first crusade, violence and robbery against pilgrims continued.
The crusades after the fall of Jerusalem were initiated in order to continue the protections of the pilgrims.
The following Crusades, while they never accomplished their ultimate goal of taking back Jerusalem, they spanked the Muslims enough to force them to allow Christians to complete their pilgrimage, and offer them more protections on their way there.
--- Balian of Ibelin ---
Not much to say here that hasn’t already been said, but Balian was not an atheist, that’s just some Ridley Scott bull.
And obviously he was not born in France, his family was from France but he was born in Ibelin, hence his name.
I did find it hilarious when the EFAP cast pointed out how dumb it is that the desert dwelling population of the Levant had no idea how to cultivate the desert, but they needed a Western European from a temperate climate to show them how to live in the desert.
- Baldwin IV -
This is the most interesting of these comparisons, as Baldwin’s on screen portrayal is actually mostly ok, at least on a surface level.
He was highly intelligent and learned, and without a doubt an incredible leader.
However…the biggest discrepancy between the movie in real life was that he was not a ruler that prioritized peace between the Muslims at all cost.
The peace that was described in the film actually was only a truce that was meant to last 2 years, this was put in place to give the Crusaders time to regroup, but also gave Saladin opportunity to deal with his Muslim rivals the Zengids in his north. However Reynold of Chatillon’s raid occurred in the latter half of the second year of the truce. This was likely done in order to weaken Saladin’s army while he was still fighting the Zengids, and thus making them weaker to the Crusaders.
There is also the fact that while Baldwin sent word to Saladin regretting the raid, there is no record of Baldwin punishing Reynold about his actions.
This is why many speculate that Baldwin himself sanctioned the raid.
Baldwin IV was in fact a pragmatic king, that knew when to go on the offensive when Jerusalem needed to, and also was aware that peace with his enemies was not going to happen.
There’s probably a few more that I’ve missed, but these are the main points of contention with the characters in Kingdom of Heaven, so not only is the movie not good, it basically insults everyone in at least some way, not just the Christians.
Look as much as I enjoy the panel of personalities, I think it became too often that they lost the plot of the video. This isn't really EFAP anymore it just turned into a contest on who could come up with the most witty nitpick just for laughs. They became too distracted by themselves that it wasn't about the movie anymore, and even used that distraction to justify how "boring" and "bad" the movie really is. Am not saying they can't enjoy themselves or poke fun at the movie, all am saying is it got out of control. Personally I was excited to watch the video expecting a good time full of witty and mostly valid criticisms from a panel who has always presented themselves as intellectuals who are great at deconstructing certain forms of entertainment media. I expected to come out of this video with new knowledge and different perspective, but in the end it was just empty disappointment.
I love how this movie makes Saladin look like such a saint, when he was one of the biggest cowards in Medieval history who consistently lost against one angry Norman while commanding a massively overwhelming force.
Compared to most medieval rulers, saladin was a saint, so much so that European writers wrote fanfictions of Richard the Lionheart meeting up and having chivalric duels. This movie makes Baldwin looks like a saint as well lmao. Its a romanticisation of history, and both the kings managed to earn the respect of their enemies. Might be a bit salty cause ya lost the holy land to the big lad.
@@sarwatarannya8786 Saladin quite literally wouldn't be caught dead honouring Richard with a duel. He wouldn't even fight with his own cavalry and retreated whenever they were pressed.
Ahh, my Norman ancestors were certainly tough sons of bitches lol. Transferred to Canadians, as we had a brutal reputation during the world wars (killed surrendering Germans to save food, raiding emplacements in blizzards, etc).
We were even founded by a drunken Scot!
@@Troopertroll Saladin being tactically and strategically practical? What a terrible general.
@@TroopertrollTo be fair to Saladin, anyone trying to fight Richard in a duel was asking to die. He's up there with figures like Pyrrhus in terms of being an absolute gigachad on the battlefield. Saladin fighting one on one with Richard would be like Paris fighting Menelaus in the Troy movie. He'd just get abused in 4K.
My biggest issue with the film was Bloom's character just keeps getting put in charge of everything as soon as he shows up... no one even asks him for a resume'.
Outside of that.... I like the film.
Bloom's character is a classic Gary Sue, which is somewhat hidden by the fact that the movie is quite grim
Guy does.
1:00:59 Nice touch with the Medieval 2 Total War music!
Kingdom come deliverance > kingdom of heaven
Orlando Bloom reminds me of that “Kevin. Your dog just died. [picture]” meme
31:48 missed opportunity to have shad's laugh fade into ghimli's at helm's deep
I remember being a teen and my father gifting me my first PS3, and Kingdom of Heaven came with it. Good times. The DVD must be around my room, somewhere.
And yep this extended cut is weird. I also remember really liking it, but Mr. Bloom there I didn't remember him being soooo daaaamm blaaaaaand.
Great vid lads!
Nothing annoys me more than the Hollywood Medieval Atheist. Yes sure people would chafe at religion in the past. But they'd pretty much always do it as a sort of personal rebuke by the gods.
you'd definitely have to be more coy about it, because the power of the church pretty much always outmatched yours, so being openly atheist was a quick way to losing everything
@@petriew2018 first you'd need to conceive of not believing in the gods.
You are a man concerned with primary survival necessities. You go to church each day for mass. What time do you have to even think of not believing?
Yay! Bashir acknowledgement!
I remember moderately liking this movie. Then I read unbiased books about the crusades... 😂
Elaborate?
@@techMan_25 I mean as an atheist raised catholic, it was easy for me to believe the self-hating western narrative that christians were bad, evil invaders and Salah ad-Din was the wise enlightened man, especially considering the claims of "being accurate" that Scott made at the time.
Then I learned how more complex everything was, riconsidered some things taking into account the Ottoman aggressive expansionism and on and on.
Now this movie is basically unwatchable to me. My respect for Scott (especially after Napoleon and related interviews) has plummeted to zero.
@@techMan_25 The preceding literal hundreds of years of aggressive Muslim wars and atrocities against Christian nations before the 1st Crusade gets conveniently glossed over or omitted from most discussions of the topic to characterize the Crusades as unjustified.
@@PanzerblitzRnRi feel like that isn't 100% relevant considering the historical takeaway of the crusades is how much of a collosal failure they were, no? How they didn't really accomplish much except pillaging and looting in the name of God, and still they didn't even reach their goal?
I don't think there's much to defend in regards to the Crusades, its always an experience when i see someone try it.
@@techMan_25 as an atheist raised catholic, it was pretty easy for me to believe the western self-hating view of Christian bad and evil invaders going against the wise Salah ad-Din, especially considering the claims of historical accuracy Scott made at the time.
Later on, I learned how more complex the situation was, about islamic expanionism and the wider picture. In other words, how (as in most wars), there were no "good" and "bad" guys really.
So now this movie is basically unwatchable for me, especially after my respect for Scott plummeted to zero due to Napoleon and related interviews... 😅
I enjoyed the battle scenes in this movie, and a lot of the character moments (even if Orlando Bloom's acting could be better at times).
Historically though it's a mess and obviously has bias against the Crusaders and for the Muslims.
That said, there aren't too many other Crusades movies I can think of that have the nice large set piece battles.
So a flawed movie, but one I still enjoy re-watching from time to time.
Shardiversity needs to tone down his inner Dunning-Kruger a bit. It gets unbearable at times.
I wish he’d go awaaaaayyyy. He makes everything he’s involved in worse. And his fucked up mic isn’t helping.
You think Ridley Scott really doesn’t care about history in this film, wait until you see Napoleon.
“People gonna value the sh*t out of your stuff if it’s good.”
...like actors?
Powerwolf in EFAP, it's a goddamn good day
Rags wills it!!!!
Truth
Mauler talking about them being one of his favorite bands got me to look them up, and now they're one of my favorite bands.
I love this film.
I know it’s historically inaccurate propoganda like “The Patriot”, but like “The Patriot”, I love it anyway.
54:32 So, that Sabaton song is about the sacking of Rome in 1527. I recommend Powerwolf’s (not Sabaton’s) “In the Name of God” instead!
Your time stamp is a whole minute out mate.
Complaining about orlando is the only thing that brings me joy in life
Orlando Bloom's character Balian seems to me like a Mary Sue/Gary Stu.
Pretty solid example for sure. They don't get full points as he technically got trained and has "lost" in several spots.
I hate to say it, but a lot of their criticism of the dialogue is super cringey.
"When the Pope says God's commanded it, you just find a way I guess." - Drinker
I mean... God is *THE* Deus Ex Machina, of all deus ex machinas, Drinker.
Coming to be increasingly aware of Ridley Scott's patterns & takes. Not a fan...
Mount & Blade edit at the end is peak fire
The good days when we europeans knew what to do against them,
Im starting to question if Ridley Scott's legacy of being a great filmmaker was a fluke. Between this and all the films he's done lately, im struggling to see if he's done any good films since Alien and Blade Runner. I suppose gladiator will be the final decider on that one, but between this and Napoleon, im not confident in his ability to make historical films
16:45 There were indeed longswords during this period, they were still extremely rare and PROBABLY not used in the way depicted, as those are techniques similar to Talhoffer or Fiore De Libre, from the 15th century, but longswords/hand and a half swords did TECHNICALLY exist. There's an example of one in Glasgow dated between the 1100-1200's, and a bastard sword from a similar period in the Royal Armouries collection although sadly not on display.
I recently rewatched the Director's Cut of this movie.
Historically it is shit.
Orlando Bloom is a bad actor.
The camera choices are weird at times. (The sun does not shine in Europe, and the repeatedly used small shutter angle.)
The exclusively evil Christians, exclusively virtuous Muslims, and pervasive edgy atheism felt out of place.
I kinda liked it.
There is a very strong irony with this EFAP movie coming out during current real world events.
A very strong ironic twist.
It didn’t though. This movie is from 2006.
@@SumDumGy I’ll clarify next time. The EFAP movies.
EFAP should do a watch on A Knights Tale with the same group.
I'm pretty sure that it is part of the war arc.
@@lordofthepizzapie9319 how is that considered part of a war arc, when it is jousting?
@@Boromir2k1 Hey, I didn't make the rules. I don't even know what the rules are!
@@Boromir2k1 They had a skit in the trailer for this War Arc where they question that concept themselves. They kinda just threw that word War at the title.
@@Boromir2k1 hey, there was a war scene, and war going on!
So I decided to check on the suicide thing in religion and I did my journalistic investigation and checked only one site and they wrote: Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.
Individuals who commit suicide are usually suffering from some psychological or emotional condition that overwhelms them and impairs their ability to fully understand and freely choose their actions, and therefore they would not necessarily be culpable for their actions.
i dont know if it's just a catholic thing, but many priests over the decades/centuries have painted suicide in such a negative light... it can be a bit weird.
*personal anecdote time. had a cousin perform the action, and their local priest didnt want to be part of the mourning nor the funeral service. it didnt seem like the local church said or did anything, it was the priest's personal feeling.
@@vissermatt1058 My condolences
@@inferior3199 life sucks, then it's over. got to enjoy and maximize the time we have. best of luck to you and yours.
@@vissermatt1058 Thank you. Wish you the same. I hope you find peace and fulfillment in your journey.
The Catholic Church was very much against suicide, considering it a mortal sin (refusing the gift of life, denying the will of God etc). So you'd go straight to Hell if you were a suicide, since you could not repent and get absolved once you're dead. Also, the suicides were denied christian burial and could not be buried in consecrated ground. Hence the scene in Hamlet where they bury Ofelia and the doubt whether it was suicide or just an accident... In time (as late as 20th century) the Church stance mellowed to what you found.
The best part of Kingdom of Heaven was 13th Warrior.
It's funny how much acclaim this movie gets when it's arguably one of the first heavily PC flicks out of Hollywood. It presents Crusaders as greedy, unrelenting assholes who kill every Muslim they see while the Seljuk governate simply wants peace. It's like the director and writers had beef against Christianity and possibly wanted to convert to Islam.
For context: this film was one of many series of Ridley films from this point to Exodus: Gods and Kings as an exploration of faith as an excuse for power… even Prometheus is an extension of these motifs. Personally, this film is what made me fascinated with history, even when this badly portrays the subject matter.
I noticed the questioning of motive by the time Sybila kills her son. When her own logic was being questioned by Tiberius the next scene after the burning wax revelation, you guys pointed out that this is awful for the whole kingdom and yet she acknowledges that in the film. She lost her purpose in her kingdom as she has a child that will undergo the same pains as her dearest brother. It became more about her selfishness.
The exploding bushes bit is also the most overt attempt at Scott portraying his own journey as an atheist with Balian, a historical figure, to be sacrificed into becoming a random French man in an unknown world. This same scene is where people start to question the purpose of the priest turned knight as he becomes more of like his “guardian angel” a figure that personifies the holy land only to die with it: i.e. the Battle of Hattin.
Also the reason why the location looked like that for Jerusalem is because of the shooting location in Morocco.
I prefer the director’s cut and while yea Scott has yet to surpass his best historical film “the Duelists”, this has a pretty good behind the scenes content clocking in at 10 hours. At some frames of this film they are utilizing 5,000 extras.
That’s all I have to say, I have more but this was fun to listen to while at work.
The movie completely skips over Saladin enslaving Christian and Jewish pilgrims.
Let's just be honest. Orlando Bloom was never hired for his acting ability. That's not why people (namely women) watch his movies. 😏
This EFAP has pushed me beyond the point of no return. Alien will always be among my all-time favorites, but I think Ridley Scott is just a bad filmmaker who occasionally stumbles upon something good.
One thing that should be mentioned for the Crusades is that fairly few nobles went, it was almost a family affair. The nobles that would go brought their family members into it, if a king went his nation didn't go with him, his uncles, brothers and nephews would. It was the same for any lords that went. Europe did not mobilize, very devote families did, there would have likely been more gains had more people participated. It was also due to the families that refused to go that ended the crusades, in part, they argued they were too costly.
I now need an EFAP Movies of Kung Pow.
Make it happen mewbschlie! It’ll be the only thing that’ll bring me joy in life!
Nah I watched this a few weeks back and I don't see it. Orlando Bloom is fine in this role. Critical Drinker is already going at him for brooding over his wife. That's the character.
You guys need to actually watch the damn films sometimes. Or put on subtitles. The frenchmen ambush them because they wanted to killed the lord and blacksmith son because they could challenege or take away the current lords power and lands.
They were sent to kill, using the skaying of the oriest as a cover
As an Orlando Bloom fan girl, I love this movie unapologetically 😊
You can do better. I believe in you.
@@culturalliberator9425 Maybe I like slumming 🤣
@@coopsgirl07: "Oh Orlando, I love you!"
Orlando: "Yes"
As a man who is neither, so do I.
I actually really like this movie, especially the extended cut, but Bloom is surrounded by far better actors. I always thought that was the point though, hes just some blacksmith from nowhere plucked from obscurrity for no great noble reason while all these grand leaders and politicans are manuevering around whats happening.
I've seen bits and pieces of this movie over the years - and some of it looks cool, and there are some pretty iconic shots I see still used today
But I also remember the film getting pilloried by critics and viewers alike when it came out
Nearly 20 years later and Ridley Scott apparently learned nothing before releasing Napoleon
Why make historical epics if you don't appear to care about.. you know.. history
Shad’s mic is so fried
No mic deserves the punishment his gets...
These edits 😆 EFAP needs a Kung Pow episode
Deus Vult!
To be fair to the blue light in night scenes, not only is it better than not seeing a fucking thing, but it's also at least partially accurate to Earth lore. The night sky looks black as can be for most of us because most of us live in cities, while the night sky is actually mostly blue without light pollution. You can actually see in open areas relatively well in a full moon, though obviously not as well as in the day, and caves and forests are a whole other issue of actually being pitch black.