I legitimately recoiled on hearing Steven's suggestion at 0:30. Taking away the daily rum ration for ALL men. The insanity of such a sentence. For some of these men (potentially some press-ganged) those little comforts are one of the few things keeping them going. Something to look forward to when their watch ends. A little creature comfort that makes a hellish day bearable. And the doctor would suggest tipping it over the side? Madness. **Edit** - Also out of curiosity I just tried some "Grog". One part rum: four parts water. With a dash of lemon juice (historical accuracy debated). That's actually quite nice. I can easily imagine how a mug of that, chilled from the casks in the hold, would be an ideal source of relief for these men after a tough day.
Growing up in the deep south US, this was a revelation to me that people could actually have mature thoughtful conversations about things like governance and religion. For the most part you have to keep it to yourself.
Horrible adaptation of two of the greatest books ever written. No sense of the comedy and overplayed the drama. Crowe was ok, with terrible direction, but the Maturin casting was soooooooo wrong
I love their relationship. There's very little else more rewarding than a friendship wherein parties may disagree without collapsing. I also love the idea of a captain befriending lower ranking officers, inviting them to check him even if only on a personal level, thus allowing for some healthy reflection on the human aspects of their rough, often unrelatable trade.
The ship physician is more or less outside the rank system and a congenial outsider to the enlisted, which is why he is the only one on board the captain
@@jordanbell4736 A la McCoy from Star Trek TOS. The ship's physician can take the Captain out of his commission at any time due to any medical reason, including the psychological.
Very true! In the novels, Steven Maturin had a special status, outside the rank and file. As physician, yes. But on some voyages he was listed only as a guest, and later on he actually bought the HMS Surprise to keep it from going to the knackers yard, and was the ship's owner. So there was some leeway given to him to speak as he does here with Jack. But as you indicated their friendship was paramount. But Captain Aubrey could not directly ask the doctor questions about crew mates, because technically (I believe) Maturin was a nominal member of the wardroom aboard and secondly he loathed the idea of informers or "ratting out" other shipmates. Their relationship has an interesting dynamic.
If you watch this closely, one of the brilliant, subtle things the filmmaker did to help immerse us in their naval world is have the camera very gently but constantly roll and tilt and list, keeping the setting behind the actors never parallel with the ground---always at a gently changing angle. Makes you feel like they very much were on a boat when they filmed this.
They really did build the HMS Surprise, down to the last detail-even left-hand lay rope. The interior scenes were filmed on a second set that was mounted to a massive gimbal, so the movement you see in the camera is the set actually swaying. This is way more realistic than adding the swaying in post-production; people try to stay upright on a swaying ship.
It’s great for the scene too. Very thematic for the questioning of the naval traditions. A world balancing on the edge of a knife, tilting between mutiny and discipline
He was also forced to act by Hollum, the officer who had been disrespected. The midshipman didn't have the spine to call out Nagle himself and have him arrested on the spot. The only reason the man got punished is because Aubrey was looking in their general direction and saw it happen.
"Do you think I want to flog Nagle? The man who stood beside me on the gun, hack the ropes and sent his mate to his death? Under orders, under MY orders?"
Nocturnal Recluse Sadly, that may be true if they are as immature as it appears. On the other hand, maybe the punishment will teach them a lesson in respecting a man's authority whether you like him or not...
The problem was the crew already were disdaining Hollom. But Jack had to squelch the notion that they could could be lax around any officer without fear of retribution. Its not made clear in the movie, but Jack was decidedly reluctant to use the lash unless absolutely necessary unlike other captains of the time. It was part of what made him so popular.
Oh, I know how you feel. There were some problems with how they broke away from the series of books, but with a clever bit of writing I think they could have solved that though.
Exactly. I saw this movie in the theater when it premiered and loved it. Great acting, cinematography, soundtrack etc... It's still one of my all time favorites.
Why on earth there was never a sequel to this really quite wonderful film.....utterly unfathomable. This is up there with the best films ever made. It is exquisite.
Because it was expensive to make and because there was almost no man/woman interaction. This was almost exclusively a guy film. I love it and have seen it many times but chick flicks or quasi chick flicks are cheaper to make and get bigger audiences because women go to them and drag their husbands and boyfriends with them.
@@jburtonca Doesn't really make sense. You seem to suggest that a film that costs money and is masculine in it's appeal isn't worthy of a sequel. Really? The Godfather? Rocky? Lethal Weapon? Ridley Scott is currently working, we are lead to believe on a sequel to Gladiator, a very masculine film with lots of violent scenes, so.....?
@@danielmoran9902 I understand his point because nowadays with the mandated ideology in Hollywood, they would have to include a woman/women and some minorities or LGBTQ situations. I love this film because it doesn't have any of that and it is totally focused on the storyline. Russell Crowe and Paul Bettany have fallen on hard times having to play Zeus and Vision in the MCU movies.
@@alexayers9463 you saved me having to make the same comment. This is a rare gem of a flawless film. Greatness gives you just enough and not more. The opposite would be a theme park movie like Star Wars or Marvel. They exist to multiply
"Master and Commander: The far Side of the World"(2003) is a historical period action adventure War movie masterpiece, and the best movie of all time for this Kind!
I really like scenes like this because they are very thoughtful and reflect the centuries of struggle in military thought to find the middle ground between good order and discipline and reinforcing the brotherhood of the military. This is not a conversation that ended with the era of the wooden ships either, the modern military still struggles with these problems.
The American military was one of the first institutions to integrate in the West. After the Second World War, they realized it just wasn’t worth it to cater to people’s prejudices. Even if it was hard for the soldiers to accept that they might be commanded by a black man, in the long run and in the greater scheme of war and conflict and survival, the benefits of having every soldier available and respecting the line of command meant that it was just a bad idea to not integrate. This is why the Supreme Court made exceptions for the military in the case of affirmative action. At the same time, it’s tragic that we use this intense camaraderie generated from the very basic need to survive and to help our fellow man to support unjust institutions or military action. The boy climbing the ladder at the trenches in Gallipoli to a mathematically inefficient death so that we could maintain the balance of power for only a quarter century is a stark display of absurdity.
It's too bad the movie couldn't show the Doctor's true talent as a master spy. The books bring all that out. The doctor is deadly with pistol, knife or sword and a killing machine. They way these two met and nearly ended up in a duel is hilarious. This would make a GREAT television series. The way Aubrey goes from poor to rich to bankrupt and back is crazy. I hate like hell that O'Brian died with his last novel half done but love the way they published it where it ends mid chapter.
Wish they would’ve expanded on the other eccentricities of the other characters. Maturan was know to walk about in bloomers while Killick himself was a character. Remember one scene in the novels where he’s upset over the shoddy caulking work in the yard, and smiles at the thought of shoving a caulking iron up their asses.
That reminds me of the sharpe series where he keeps getting bankrupted, ends up with women then they just steal all his money the. He gets rich again.. Also reminds me of hornblower and how he ended up broke when the navy was scaled down and he didn’t have a ship for a while
@@Kokopilau77 i havent started the books yet but the film is in my top 5 alltime favorites. It is as close to a flawless film as one can conceive and part of that is the brilliance of its pacing. It shows you something in a few seconds rather than expounding upon it with an hour of exposition or added action. That said I do greatly look forward to reading the books
@@Kokopilau77 Yes. That was from the 5th novel in the series and the one that lets the reader see (and appreciate) a bit more of his irascible character.
This was a minor flogging if the actual accounts of flogging in the Royal Navy are considered. Most Post-Captains tried to limit the number of lashes, if a man was crippled or disabled by the punishment, he wasn't available for working the ship. Most ship board discipline was enforced by the Petty Officers and Lieutenants. There are instances of hundreds of lashes being awarded[if you can use the word 'award'], but only for the the most egregious offences such as striking an officer or desertion. Mutiny and murder were hanging offences. Being "flogged through the fleet" meant you suffered the punishment on every ship in the squadron or in the current anchorage; amazingly some men actually survived such an experience.
You beat me to it (sorry for the pun). Flogging around the fleet. I think this means flogging around the home fleet as the entire fleet was all over the world, which is bit of a bugger if they had to row around every ship whilst flogging the offender.
I love how real this conversation is. Jack attempts an appeal to nature against Stephen because he knows he's a scientist. Stephen shoots back politically by bringing up Napoleon, Jack's enemy-of-all-enemies, because he's a British sailor. These two men know each other inside and out, and it shows.
"Grog" is a cheap alcoholic drink that was rationed out to sailors, often in place of unavailable fresh water. Stephen is advising Jack that getting drunk on grog is making men more likely to be insubordinate. Jack replies that grog is in fact the only luxury in this miserable life that makes men happy and governable.
You are in a boat with around 80 to 100 men, in the middle of the ocean. No way to call for help, or signal mainland Brittain... "men must be governed" Thats true, specialy in this situation. Imagine that there is a mutiny onboard... Everything is lost.
The board of trade only allows 47 souls to occupy a lifeboat. If its full then other shipwrecked survivors should hang onto the ropes along the side of the lifeboat until somebody dies, then they can climb over the funnel and into the lifeboat.
Very intense scene. I flinched big time when Stephen suggested tipping the ship's grog over the side. The men wouldn't have liked that at all. The daily rum ration was probably something they looked forward to when their watch ended for the day since many of them were probably press-ganged.
@@CooManTunes I agree. And I also think that because we have come to the end of late-stage capitalism, it is hard to project the future. Hence why everyone's in a nostalgia 'Bermuda Triangle". And hence why no one can make futuristic films/series anymore. From Cyberpunk2077 to Star Trek Picard; it's all just MORE of the present day crap! Bickering, Politics, Feral Press, Cursing, Racism, Fear of Technology, Drinking, Vaping, sucking the life out of every scene! lol
this movie was one of the best i’ve ever seen. art in entertainment, and fun to boot. full of emotion, action, intrigue, and human condition. i absolutely loved it.
Sorry ? Maintain order and enforce Rules ? You mean enforce discipline in accordance with the laws of His Majesty and of the Admiralty. There's no arbitration out at sea. Men respect the 'Lash in cases of poor discipline, but also a double ration of Rum as the reward for good service. The old 'ships of the line' were micro societies with no other rule of law but the Captain. What he said was always backed up in Naval law. Or something like that.
@@stargazerspark4499 Well, a 'Ship of the line' is not a democracy. Notice the young child Midshipmen inspiring the gun crews during the battle. 'Beating to quarters & stand tall upon the deck'.
Now THAT'S how you fight the hard Left. Personally, I would've give him 2 Dozen lashes and had the Botanist confined to the cable locker for challenging the Commanders decision. But I'm a pussycat.
@@Lt.GonvilleBromhead . Love the handle Sir. Watch out for those Fuzzywuzzys. Well it was the Commanders birthday so he thought he'd have a whipround ! Or alternatively, a dozen 'licks of the cat' (I think its a naval rating term). HA ! Respects to you Sir.
Funny you should mention Sharpe here. Dr. Maturin here is played by Paul Bettany. He portrayed the Prince of Orange, 'Silly Billy' in Sharpe's Waterloo. Sharpe put a bullet in his gut.
@Leo Peridot yes but it seemed with Bush it was his hobby or obsession: find a reason to flog Styles. If it was up to him, Styles would be rigged to the gratings every other day
Well, by this point it was understood that the juices of certain plants and vegetables when consumed fought off scurry (certainly they didn't understand vitamin C as this point), but the juice was added to the grog simply as a reliable means of making sure the men received their proper daily allotment. Stephen would have known all this, in fact, in the novels he remarks on this several times. The juice can be consumed in some other fashion to the same effect in the event there is no grog about.
This sort of discussions, profound, "slow", that define characters, that really make us see into their brains; they are too often removed from book adaptations. I'm glad this one made it.
It is fantastic that both opinions are equally valid and treated well in this movie. jack wins by being more relativist and Stephen saves the mission by being more absolutist. A more adult film and a bloody shame it didn't get the recognition it deserved
The only flaw in the casting is that Crowe is short and Bettany is tall, whereas in the novels Jack is extraordinarily tall and Stephen is short. They tried to hide this in the movie by having Bettany sitting down a lot when they are in the same scene, or standing on a lower level.
Carpenter’s Mate Nagel is a hero of the Royal Navy but look at him now. Justice knows every man's number. He has committed a terrible sacrilege, and he will pay for it! As will any man here who breaks the law. Brawlers and drunkards will be flogged. Thieves will be strangled. Deserters will be crucified!
My top 5 movie ever. Governing a warship in those ages was rough. And much depend on the quality of the Lieutenents and the 3rd in command The Sailing Master. A good captain deverses a good officers core and good officers deserve a good captain. The crew then will follow. Briljant and almost 100% accurate movie.
The doctor was really out of his mind, here, talking about mutinies and tipping grog over (which was important to keeping the men happy, sedate, and compliant). Like Captain Jack said, he came to the wrong shop to talk anarchy.
I don't think the Dr. thought the actions of the man as mutinis. More like it was just one guy but Russel is correct in saying that lines can't be crossed because he sees 10 moves ahead if the Dr., of which, could be mutiny from the whole crew, if not checked with the one sailor.
I always viewed the doctor as a kind of stand-in for the audience. They exaggerate a bit of his qualities with modern sensibilities. For example, the scene where he doesn't know what the weather gauge is. There is absolutely no way someone back then serving on a boat wouldn't know what that means. But they do this to allow them to explain it to the audience. I think it works. But yes, I view them as taking his character farther than a character like this would go in real life
Men must be governed. I was in the Navy for 20 yrs. Sometimes far away from the main components of the chain of command, far from them, and it is so god damn true. Without some kind of self discipline, we would have faltered to our worst tendencies.
There were many different types of whips used throughout the navy, and captains would either have a reputation for being overzealous or very reasonable - not only with the type of whip/severity of the blows, but also the number that were given. In the books, Aubrey leans more towards the reasonable end of things.
Pretend it was a Pussywhip. What do you expect, a real whip flailed by a real Bosun and a real Method actor having his backbone exposed to the Scurvy crew ? Its called 'Artistic Licence' otherwise all the acting hero's would be dead, and their stunt doubles. 'Captain says its his birthday so he's having a whipround'. This is how we built an empire. .
actually, most captains didn't flog until the skin broke. This is not only because then they'd be out of commission for too long in healing but you run the risk of infection, which could cause crippling or even death. It was more supposed to be a stinging pain but something a man could recover from relatively quickly.
I find the argument at 1:20 interesting; Maturin argues that there is "no disdain/humiliation in nature." One could argue that he was simply wrong/exaggerating, or it could be that was the understanding of biologists at the time. Either way, we know now that is not true; many animals that rely on a social structure use harsh punishment to keep members in line, whether it's baboon harems, gorilla troops, wolf packs, or lion prides. Naturalists often fell victim to romantic notions about the nobility of the natural world - we understand better now that when survival demands cohesion, most animals wouldn't bat an eye at public corporal punishment. Does that mean that Lucky Jack is right? It's hard to say, and that's what makes this writing so compelling. Both characters, in their own way, are both right and wrong, and you can understand why they believe what they believe.
@dnzswithwombats that's not governing that's neo liberalism grasping at straws in an attempt to create a harmonious society while ignoring base problems.
you see people will call this tyrannical but reality is if our leaders behaved realistically and logically like that we would be colonizing our solar system by now
The crew arent looking for a friend, they are looking for someone hard and strong to lead them to victory and glory. Trying to be their friend is a fast ticket to a keelhaul overboard to your death
I think too that the term ‘discipline’ has had its meaning morphed slightly through time. In _Master and Commander_ , discipline was about making a ‘disciple’ of a man by means of example and force: i.e. publicly displayed rituals of humiliating corporal punishment for some infraction. But in the contemporary world, discipline means something like effective self-governance, wherein an individual refines their own behaviours, according their own self-appointed laws and maxims, by means of rigorous self-appraisal and critical, if constructive, self-reflection. In the modern sense, no instrument of punishment is required; nor external institutions or apparatus of ritual, hierarchy and rule to support the disciplining process. I prefer the modern version.
The captain was right. The naturalist is blinded by emotion. What's odd is that you'd suspect the opposite to be the case, the brutish sailor being the emotionally compromised one where the scientifically minded naturalist would let logic govern.
Jack only fell a little short on compassion and reason with regards to Mr. Hollom, but otherwise had a much firmer leg to stand on than his friend Stephen.
I legitimately recoiled on hearing Steven's suggestion at 0:30. Taking away the daily rum ration for ALL men. The insanity of such a sentence. For some of these men (potentially some press-ganged) those little comforts are one of the few things keeping them going. Something to look forward to when their watch ends. A little creature comfort that makes a hellish day bearable. And the doctor would suggest tipping it over the side? Madness.
**Edit** - Also out of curiosity I just tried some "Grog". One part rum: four parts water. With a dash of lemon juice (historical accuracy debated). That's actually quite nice. I can easily imagine how a mug of that, chilled from the casks in the hold, would be an ideal source of relief for these men after a tough day.
That moment you spot a SovietWomble in the wild of 2003 video clips. And yes, I agree, what madman would deprive men of such a small comfort of home.
Quit watching movies and make another bullshittery.
fancy seeing you here mr.womble
One of us
it was to prevent scurvy (the lemon) as much as it was to provide relief (the rum)
It’s truly something else when a history movie truly feels like we’re watching a glimpse of the past. Everyone played their roles perfectly.
And the props!!!
Well said.
hear hear. I think it's one of the best historical films ever made
I love the mutual respect here. Jack is even willing to admit that his feelings were hurt.
@Happy McJoyjoy I'm interested.
@@Sup_Mate They are wonderful books. Excellent quarantine distraction. Hmm maybe time for a re-read...
Conversation scripted to brief the audience.
You bet.... they have been together since college. Well, the one is not real but hey...
Growing up in the deep south US, this was a revelation to me that people could actually have mature thoughtful conversations about things like governance and religion. For the most part you have to keep it to yourself.
This may well have been Russell Crowe's best performance. He just killed it here. Bettany was right there with him too.
TheDucciano absolutely yes. Oscar winning performance by Bettany.
Horrible adaptation of two of the greatest books ever written. No sense of the comedy and overplayed the drama. Crowe was ok, with terrible direction, but the Maturin casting was soooooooo wrong
You are wrong and i will have my vengeance......in this life or the next.
There is no way that Bettany gave a better performance here than Crowe. Crowe just filled the screen, he was so deeply committed to the role.
@@tindomul8977 Agreed. I just felt that Crowe was just a cut above. He was the personality the whole movie was hung on.
I love their relationship. There's very little else more rewarding than a friendship wherein parties may disagree without collapsing. I also love the idea of a captain befriending lower ranking officers, inviting them to check him even if only on a personal level, thus allowing for some healthy reflection on the human aspects of their rough, often unrelatable trade.
The ship physician is more or less outside the rank system and a congenial outsider to the enlisted, which is why he is the only one on board the captain
@@jordanbell4736 A la McCoy from Star Trek TOS. The ship's physician can take the Captain out of his commission at any time due to any medical reason, including the psychological.
Very true! In the novels, Steven Maturin had a special status, outside the rank and file. As physician, yes. But on some voyages he was listed only as a guest, and later on he actually bought the HMS Surprise to keep it from going to the knackers yard, and was the ship's owner. So there was some leeway given to him to speak as he does here with Jack. But as you indicated their friendship was paramount. But Captain Aubrey could not directly ask the doctor questions about crew mates, because technically (I believe) Maturin was a nominal member of the wardroom aboard and secondly he loathed the idea of informers or "ratting out" other shipmates. Their relationship has an interesting dynamic.
Flogging is the lesser of two weevils.
"Men must be governed. Often not wisely, I will grant you, but governed nonetheless." How can you not love the English language.
Exactly 💯
By the way I am indian
Where the brexit happened
Absolutely correct
He is probably imagining him again. Don't take that scene that serious.😂
more like anarchy rn
But it is the excuse of tyrants throughout history
If you watch this closely, one of the brilliant, subtle things the filmmaker did to help immerse us in their naval world is have the camera very gently but constantly roll and tilt and list, keeping the setting behind the actors never parallel with the ground---always at a gently changing angle. Makes you feel like they very much were on a boat when they filmed this.
Watched this movie several times and never noticed that subtlety. Thanks!
It helps when you actually shoot on a ship...
They really did build the HMS Surprise, down to the last detail-even left-hand lay rope. The interior scenes were filmed on a second set that was mounted to a massive gimbal, so the movement you see in the camera is the set actually swaying. This is way more realistic than adding the swaying in post-production; people try to stay upright on a swaying ship.
I never noticed that and I watched this film so many times. Now I can't un-notice it.
It’s great for the scene too. Very thematic for the questioning of the naval traditions. A world balancing on the edge of a knife, tilting between mutiny and discipline
He DIDENT fail to salute, he was provoking, and wanted to pick a fight, so commander did what a commander HAS to do, he set a example ....
Throw him off the ship. We sail for south america.
He did something necessary, and ugly.
He gives the order, and accepts that it is his responsibility.
Being a leader isn't all drinks and cigars.
@@MrJustonemorevoice occasionaly its being tossed off the ship and being left for the gulls.
He was also forced to act by Hollum, the officer who had been disrespected. The midshipman didn't have the spine to call out Nagle himself and have him arrested on the spot. The only reason the man got punished is because Aubrey was looking in their general direction and saw it happen.
"Do you think I want to flog Nagle? The man who stood beside me on the gun, hack the ropes and sent his mate to his death? Under orders, under MY orders?"
GUNWALE or gunnel the upper edge of a ship's or boat's side
@@martinowens6444 yep
That's no a real dialogue. It's his imagination.... again. Don't take it too seriously.
Not a decision I would like to make.
If anyone understood the difference between governing and leading it was certainly Jack Aubrey.
His character was a master at both.
And commander.
No he wasn't a Master and Commande :p
(But he was in the first novel)
18661873+ All the punishment did was make the crew disdain hollom.
Nocturnal Recluse Sadly, that may be true if they are as immature as it appears. On the other hand, maybe the punishment will teach them a lesson in respecting a man's authority whether you like him or not...
The problem was the crew already were disdaining Hollom. But Jack had to squelch the notion that they could could be lax around any officer without fear of retribution. Its not made clear in the movie, but Jack was decidedly reluctant to use the lash unless absolutely necessary unlike other captains of the time. It was part of what made him so popular.
It's sad that we live in the universe where this bombed and Pirates of the Caribbean got all the sequels.
Oh, I know how you feel. There were some problems with how they broke away from the series of books, but with a clever bit of writing I think they could have solved that though.
Exactly. I saw this movie in the theater when it premiered and loved it. Great acting, cinematography, soundtrack etc... It's still one of my all time favorites.
...shows American will always chase "the bright shiny object". In this case, it was Johnny Depp!
Agreed.....I own and love it
There's room for both franchises to exist in the movie world. Pirates is mindless fun.
Russel Crowe is still fighting round the world
OY!
Where's TUGGA????
@@Quillons1 it's a poita rican!
@@gondwanaland9 Dude. My FAVORITE line in the whole show. There's a lautta blayks and POIITTA Ricans!
@@Quillons1 And they're real good at FOIGHTIN'.....OI!
"Tip the ships Grog over the side"
"Bro dump the booze? Do you have a deathwish?"
"I want to discipline the man, not cause a mutiny."
The crew would dump him over the side-!
Ugh, I wish there was a whole SERIES of these films, like the books.
Perhaps a TV series one day.
Check out Horatio Hornblower. There are eight episodes. Different characters, but the same sort of setup.
@@finrodbrs Hornblower!!!
Why on earth there was never a sequel to this really quite wonderful film.....utterly unfathomable. This is up there with the best films ever made. It is exquisite.
Because it was expensive to make and because there was almost no man/woman interaction. This was almost exclusively a guy film. I love it and have seen it many times but chick flicks or quasi chick flicks are cheaper to make and get bigger audiences because women go to them and drag their husbands and boyfriends with them.
@@jburtonca Doesn't really make sense. You seem to suggest that a film that costs money and is masculine in it's appeal isn't worthy of a sequel. Really?
The Godfather? Rocky? Lethal Weapon? Ridley Scott is currently working, we are lead to believe on a sequel to Gladiator, a very masculine film with lots of violent scenes, so.....?
@@danielmoran9902 I do think it is worthy of a sequel but i don't think it will be made.
@@jburtonca Not a hugely convincing argument you offer, and an equally flabby response, Sir.
@@danielmoran9902 I understand his point because nowadays with the mandated ideology in Hollywood, they would have to include a woman/women and some minorities or LGBTQ situations. I love this film because it doesn't have any of that and it is totally focused on the storyline. Russell Crowe and Paul Bettany have fallen on hard times having to play Zeus and Vision in the MCU movies.
It's a crime that this movie didn't get sequels. Russell Crowe was great in this, the supporting cast was strong. Great story wonderfully executed.
It's for the best. More often than not, sequels degrade the whole product. This doesn't deserve degradation.
@@alexayers9463 you saved me having to make the same comment. This is a rare gem of a flawless film. Greatness gives you just enough and not more. The opposite would be a theme park movie like Star Wars or Marvel. They exist to multiply
A television series even. This movie had the potential to unseat Hornblower in its own setting
Far better than pirates of the Caribbean!
"Master and Commander: The far Side of the World"(2003) is a historical period action adventure War movie masterpiece, and the best movie of all time for this Kind!
The dialogue and delivery in this film are top class.
A great and well written dialogue when you can see the points and reasoning in both arguments.
I really like scenes like this because they are very thoughtful and reflect the centuries of struggle in military thought to find the middle ground between good order and discipline and reinforcing the brotherhood of the military. This is not a conversation that ended with the era of the wooden ships either, the modern military still struggles with these problems.
The American military was one of the first institutions to integrate in the West. After the Second World War, they realized it just wasn’t worth it to cater to people’s prejudices. Even if it was hard for the soldiers to accept that they might be commanded by a black man, in the long run and in the greater scheme of war and conflict and survival, the benefits of having every soldier available and respecting the line of command meant that it was just a bad idea to not integrate.
This is why the Supreme Court made exceptions for the military in the case of affirmative action.
At the same time, it’s tragic that we use this intense camaraderie generated from the very basic need to survive and to help our fellow man to support unjust institutions or military action.
The boy climbing the ladder at the trenches in Gallipoli to a mathematically inefficient death so that we could maintain the balance of power for only a quarter century is a stark display of absurdity.
It's too bad the movie couldn't show the Doctor's true talent as a master spy. The books bring all that out. The doctor is deadly with pistol, knife or sword and a killing machine. They way these two met and nearly ended up in a duel is hilarious. This would make a GREAT television series. The way Aubrey goes from poor to rich to bankrupt and back is crazy. I hate like hell that O'Brian died with his last novel half done but love the way they published it where it ends mid chapter.
Wish they would’ve expanded on the other eccentricities of the other characters. Maturan was know to walk about in bloomers while Killick himself was a character. Remember one scene in the novels where he’s upset over the shoddy caulking work in the yard, and smiles at the thought of shoving a caulking iron up their asses.
That reminds me of the sharpe series where he keeps getting bankrupted, ends up with women then they just steal all his money the. He gets rich again..
Also reminds me of hornblower and how he ended up broke when the navy was scaled down and he didn’t have a ship for a while
@@Kokopilau77 i havent started the books yet but the film is in my top 5 alltime favorites. It is as close to a flawless film as one can conceive and part of that is the brilliance of its pacing.
It shows you something in a few seconds rather than expounding upon it with an hour of exposition or added action. That said I do greatly look forward to reading the books
@@talk-supersix-seven6021 Or Flashman when he realizes his Dad squandered the family fortune and he has to rely on his hated Father in Law for cash...
@@Kokopilau77 Yes. That was from the 5th novel in the series and the one that lets the reader see (and appreciate) a bit more of his irascible character.
This was a minor flogging if the actual accounts of flogging in the Royal Navy are considered. Most Post-Captains tried to limit the number of lashes, if a man was crippled or disabled by the punishment, he wasn't available for working the ship. Most ship board discipline was enforced by the Petty Officers and Lieutenants. There are instances of hundreds of lashes being awarded[if you can use the word 'award'], but only for the the most egregious offences such as striking an officer or desertion. Mutiny and murder were hanging offences. Being "flogged through the fleet" meant you suffered the punishment on every ship in the squadron or in the current anchorage; amazingly some men actually survived such an experience.
Then there was always Keelhauling...
I think in this situation flogging might have actually been lenient. Striking an officer was a capital offense.
Didn’t get a bucket of sea water thrown on his back to stop infection. That must have stung like hell!!
You beat me to it (sorry for the pun). Flogging around the fleet.
I think this means flogging around the home fleet as the entire fleet was all over the world, which is bit of a bugger if they had to row around every ship whilst flogging the offender.
I love how real this conversation is. Jack attempts an appeal to nature against Stephen because he knows he's a scientist. Stephen shoots back politically by bringing up Napoleon, Jack's enemy-of-all-enemies, because he's a British sailor. These two men know each other inside and out, and it shows.
One of the few movies that i never get bored of watching
"Grog" is a cheap alcoholic drink that was rationed out to sailors, often in place of unavailable fresh water. Stephen is advising Jack that getting drunk on grog is making men more likely to be insubordinate. Jack replies that grog is in fact the only luxury in this miserable life that makes men happy and governable.
Paul Bettany knocked it out the park just as much. Maturin was a complex character.
In the books the doctor was homeless and unemployed. They met each other at a concert and immediately hated each other. But soon became close friends.
You are in a boat with around 80 to 100 men, in the middle of the ocean.
No way to call for help, or signal mainland Brittain...
"men must be governed"
Thats true, specialy in this situation.
Imagine that there is a mutiny onboard... Everything is lost.
European Pizza Mutiny is not a good thing. A certain Hugh Pigot and a certain William Bligh will attest to this.
We're here to protect democracy, not to practice it.
vincentpol : That’s also the mantra of the remainers who now oppose BREXIT!!😂😂
The board of trade only allows 47 souls to occupy a lifeboat.
If its full then other shipwrecked survivors should hang onto the ropes along the side of the lifeboat until somebody dies, then they can climb over the funnel and into the lifeboat.
@Robertson Thirdly , Surprise had about 200 souls aboard.
They're both right. Great writing.
Peter Weir had such mastery of the scenes and deft commands of the actors. Pun intended. Amazing film.
Very intense scene. I flinched big time when Stephen suggested tipping the ship's grog over the side. The men wouldn't have liked that at all. The daily rum ration was probably something they looked forward to when their watch ended for the day since many of them were probably press-ganged.
I wished they'd still make movies like this.
It has to do with actors. This current generation isn't charismatic enough. Hollywood is going down the drain, as the older generations die.
@@CooManTunes And no CGI
@@CooManTunes I agree. And I also think that because we have come to the end of late-stage capitalism, it is hard to project the future. Hence why everyone's in a nostalgia 'Bermuda Triangle". And hence why no one can make futuristic films/series anymore. From Cyberpunk2077 to Star Trek Picard; it's all just MORE of the present day crap! Bickering, Politics, Feral Press, Cursing, Racism, Fear of Technology, Drinking, Vaping, sucking the life out of every scene! lol
this movie was one of the best i’ve ever seen. art in entertainment, and fun to boot. full of emotion, action, intrigue, and human condition. i absolutely loved it.
The Captain has to maintain order and enforce the rules. He's responsible for everyone on the ship.
Sorry ?
Maintain order and enforce Rules ?
You mean enforce discipline in accordance with the laws of His Majesty and of the Admiralty. There's no arbitration out at sea. Men respect the 'Lash in cases of poor discipline, but also a double ration of Rum as the reward for good service.
The old 'ships of the line' were micro societies with no other rule of law but the Captain. What he said was always backed up in Naval law.
Or something like that.
@@oldgitsknowstuff Rules are only as good as their enforcement.
@@stargazerspark4499
Well, a 'Ship of the line' is not a democracy.
Notice the young child Midshipmen inspiring the gun crews during the battle.
'Beating to quarters & stand tall upon the deck'.
No he doesnt, not if his crew has self control and naturally respect the captain.
Captain Picard never flogged anyone :D
"You've come to the wrong shop for anarchy brother"
Now THAT'S how you fight the hard Left.
Personally, I would've give him 2 Dozen lashes and had the Botanist confined to the cable locker for challenging the Commanders decision.
But I'm a pussycat.
@@oldgitsknowstuff Quite right, sir.
@@Lt.GonvilleBromhead .
Love the handle Sir. Watch out for those Fuzzywuzzys.
Well it was the Commanders birthday so he thought he'd have a whipround ! Or alternatively, a dozen 'licks of the cat' (I think its a naval rating term).
HA ! Respects to you Sir.
John Sadler Only bias fools say that, the officer was an incompetent fool and he died like one too.
@@vingram100 .
Say what ?
It’s an incredible film that deserves far more credit! It’s perfect!!
Best 1800s war film for a Navy
"Flogging only teaches a man one thing, how to turn his back." Richard Sharpe.
Funny you should mention Sharpe here. Dr. Maturin here is played by Paul Bettany. He portrayed the Prince of Orange, 'Silly Billy' in Sharpe's Waterloo. Sharpe put a bullet in his gut.
Sharpe deals out beatings quite regularly
@Tim Loves Bacon cool! Regular characters?
@Leo Peridot it didn't help that Bush was always looking for a reason to flog him and threatened to left and right
@Leo Peridot yes but it seemed with Bush it was his hobby or obsession: find a reason to flog Styles. If it was up to him, Styles would be rigged to the gratings every other day
Imagine being on a boat in the middle of the ocean, in that day and age, and thinking that throwing the booze overboard will actually help lol
"You've come to the wrong shop for anarchy, brother" Always stayed with me that line.
Throwing the grog over board. Their only reliable source of vitamin C would have been a disaster.
Well, by this point it was understood that the juices of certain plants and vegetables when consumed fought off scurry (certainly they didn't understand vitamin C as this point), but the juice was added to the grog simply as a reliable means of making sure the men received their proper daily allotment. Stephen would have known all this, in fact, in the novels he remarks on this several times. The juice can be consumed in some other fashion to the same effect in the event there is no grog about.
Cabbage
Sauerkraut.
@@M0butu Vitamin C from the local health food store. I mean...DUH....
@@turnereddie yuck
This was one of the greatest movies ever.
2:01 so there is no second breakfast.....
Fool of a Took!
"I would rather have them three sheets to the wind on occasion than a mutiny on my hands"
Crowe deserved an Oscar win for this film, not Gladiator.
When there is no second breakfast
you shall not pass.
I don't think they know about second breakfast....
This sort of discussions, profound, "slow", that define characters, that really make us see into their brains; they are too often removed from book adaptations. I'm glad this one made it.
It is fantastic that both opinions are equally valid and treated well in this movie. jack wins by being more relativist and Stephen saves the mission by being more absolutist.
A more adult film and a bloody shame it didn't get the recognition it deserved
1:37 That shut him up.
The most underrated film of all time
One of the best movie i have ever watched
Very underrated movie...I was hoping for a sequel. Crowe and the others knock it out of the park.
If it wasn't for the lord of rings it would have wone awards
@maxhalsted5381 Truly a catch 22. Both LOTR and Master and Commander are fantastic films in their own right
I wish Ridley Scott would take notes from such a masterpiece! THIS is how you have to make a historically acurate movie.
Bettany and Crowe were absolutely peerless in this. I’ve seen no two better paired characters in a film since.
The only flaw in the casting is that Crowe is short and Bettany is tall, whereas in the novels Jack is extraordinarily tall and Stephen is short. They tried to hide this in the movie by having Bettany sitting down a lot when they are in the same scene, or standing on a lower level.
Such a great scene.
in another universe, this movie got oscars and 6 SEQUELS while pirates of the Caribbean is left as a one movie and STAYED THAT WAY!
Carpenter’s Mate Nagel is a hero of the Royal Navy but look at him now. Justice knows every man's number. He has committed a terrible sacrilege, and he will pay for it! As will any man here who breaks the law. Brawlers and drunkards will be flogged. Thieves will be strangled. Deserters will be crucified!
Karl Tanner
What would you have me do Steven?
Tip the ship’s grog over the side.
AND WHO BY THE SONS OF DIS GIVES YOU THE RIGHT TO DO SUCH JUDGEMENT
People who read books...I applaud
Rome
@@thegreatnoldini Season 1, Episode 1
“Is that it? I was just beginning to enjoy myself”
Man this movie and the Sharpe tv series were something special.
Hobbs vs Locke
... in a setting where life is nasty, brutish and short.
I mean yeah. Pretty much. Right for the period too
My top 5 movie ever. Governing a warship in those ages was rough. And much depend on the quality of the Lieutenents and the 3rd in command The Sailing Master. A good captain deverses a good officers core and good officers deserve a good captain. The crew then will follow. Briljant and almost 100% accurate movie.
Tell us about your experience governing warships in those ages.
The doctor was really out of his mind, here, talking about mutinies and tipping grog over (which was important to keeping the men happy, sedate, and compliant). Like Captain Jack said, he came to the wrong shop to talk anarchy.
I don't think the Dr. thought the actions of the man as mutinis. More like it was just one guy but Russel is correct in saying that lines can't be crossed because he sees 10 moves ahead if the Dr., of which, could be mutiny from the whole crew, if not checked with the one sailor.
Maturin in a way did come to a wrong shop. He found purpose and friendship in the navy but he was an irish republican in the books.
I always viewed the doctor as a kind of stand-in for the audience. They exaggerate a bit of his qualities with modern sensibilities. For example, the scene where he doesn't know what the weather gauge is. There is absolutely no way someone back then serving on a boat wouldn't know what that means. But they do this to allow them to explain it to the audience. I think it works. But yes, I view them as taking his character farther than a character like this would go in real life
Discipline must be maintained.
In front of the ships company.
so underrated this movie. one of my best ever
Men must be governed.
I was in the Navy for 20 yrs. Sometimes far away from the main components of the chain of command, far from them, and it is so god damn true. Without some kind of self discipline, we would have faltered to our worst tendencies.
Leaders lead, but some followers forget that they too need to manage, whether they like it or not.
This was the one scene where Weir went easy. A real flogging would have ripped Nagel's back up and been super bloody. This was nothing.
There were many different types of whips used throughout the navy, and captains would either have a reputation for being overzealous or very reasonable - not only with the type of whip/severity of the blows, but also the number that were given. In the books, Aubrey leans more towards the reasonable end of things.
Pretend it was a Pussywhip. What do you expect, a real whip flailed by a real Bosun and a real Method actor having his backbone exposed to the Scurvy crew ?
Its called 'Artistic Licence' otherwise all the acting hero's would be dead, and their stunt doubles.
'Captain says its his birthday so he's having a whipround'.
This is how we built an empire.
.
actually, most captains didn't flog until the skin broke. This is not only because then they'd be out of commission for too long in healing but you run the risk of infection, which could cause crippling or even death. It was more supposed to be a stinging pain but something a man could recover from relatively quickly.
Remember loving this film as soon as I saw it.
Most underrated cinema bromance
Love him or hate him? Love him. This is my penultimate uncomplicated “type”.
Why upload if the volume is but a whisper?
“Whatever grist the mill may require....”
Captain Jack Aubrey
I find the argument at 1:20 interesting; Maturin argues that there is "no disdain/humiliation in nature." One could argue that he was simply wrong/exaggerating, or it could be that was the understanding of biologists at the time. Either way, we know now that is not true; many animals that rely on a social structure use harsh punishment to keep members in line, whether it's baboon harems, gorilla troops, wolf packs, or lion prides. Naturalists often fell victim to romantic notions about the nobility of the natural world - we understand better now that when survival demands cohesion, most animals wouldn't bat an eye at public corporal punishment. Does that mean that Lucky Jack is right? It's hard to say, and that's what makes this writing so compelling. Both characters, in their own way, are both right and wrong, and you can understand why they believe what they believe.
stop sailors from drinking ........are you insane🤣.
I know its like taking grandmas nitting needles away wtf.
Damn, I keep looking for the clip of the crew knuckle saluting Hollom. This ends right before it.
Captains mast... Gotta love it
2:02 "I'm so lucky for what I have done with palantir"
Thing is... they are both right just in different contexts.
How did this not get a franchise?
Probably better to actually acknowledge their potential feelings rather than self-deprecate.
What an AMAZING movie. Men must be governed
Look at Portland. Seattle. San Fran. Chicago....
@dnzswithwombats that's not governing that's neo liberalism grasping at straws in an attempt to create a harmonious society while ignoring base problems.
you see people will call this tyrannical but reality is if our leaders behaved realistically and logically like that we would be colonizing our solar system by now
He runs a tight ship
Russell Crowe and Paul Bettany are great!
A severely underrated film I just thought it was great
Can anyone tell me what he’s doing there in the beginning with the glass? Is he trying to get water out of it because they’re all so thirsty?
The crew arent looking for a friend, they are looking for someone hard and strong to lead them to victory and glory. Trying to be their friend is a fast ticket to a keelhaul overboard to your death
Patrick O'Brien would have approved of the actors chosen to portray Maturin and Aubrey. Spot on, both of them.
Nagel earned his punishment.
Gladiator Maximus and Vision together in one big movie together
Based and rulerpilled. Authoritarian hierarchy, let's go!
Great scene. Russell Crowe is the man!
Without discipline for one's actions, there can be no order in society.
I think too that the term ‘discipline’ has had its meaning morphed slightly through time.
In _Master and Commander_ , discipline was about making a ‘disciple’ of a man by means of example and force: i.e. publicly displayed rituals of humiliating corporal punishment for some infraction.
But in the contemporary world, discipline means something like effective self-governance, wherein an individual refines their own behaviours, according their own self-appointed laws and maxims, by means of rigorous self-appraisal and critical, if constructive, self-reflection. In the modern sense, no instrument of punishment is required; nor external institutions or apparatus of ritual, hierarchy and rule to support the disciplining process. I prefer the modern version.
Thank you sir may I have another
Thats brilliant performance, right there
In other words, it's Vison/JARVIS trying to stop Jor-El from flogging a man. Quite a crossover with no powers.
“What is flogging, if not governing persevering?”
The captain was right. The naturalist is blinded by emotion. What's odd is that you'd suspect the opposite to be the case, the brutish sailor being the emotionally compromised one where the scientifically minded naturalist would let logic govern.
"You've come to the wrong shop for anarchy, brother."
Jack only fell a little short on compassion and reason with regards to Mr. Hollom, but otherwise had a much firmer leg to stand on than his friend Stephen.
Great movie, Great book series.