Islam and liberty: Mustafa Akyol at TEDxWarwick
Вставка
- Опубліковано 16 бер 2011
- Mustafa Akyol is a Turkish political commentator and cultural critic. He is a columnist for Turkish newspapers Hürriyet Daily News and Star, and a regular commentator on Turkish TV's. His articles have also appeared in Foreign Affairs, Newsweek, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal and many other publications. His upcoming book,Islam without Extremes: A Muslim Case for Liberty will be published this July by W.W. Norton.
About TEDx, x = independently organized event
In the spirit of ideas worth spreading, TEDx is a program of local, self-organized events that bring people together to share a TED-like experience. At a TEDx event, TEDTalks video and live speakers combine to spark deep discussion and connection in a small group. These local, self-organized events are branded TEDx, where x = independently organized TED event. The TED Conference provides general guidance for the TEDx program, but individual TEDx events are self-organized.* (*Subject to certain rules and regulations) - Наука та технологія
I believe Islam has many different verisons novadays in the World and people can only find the real religion in Kuran without being effected by other people. These days Islamic societies are having trouble because religion is mostly being used by politicians and for power.
I have not learned Islam in its new version today while i grew up in Turkey. What i learned was all about understanding and respecting other religions, other peoples beliefs and respecting the human life which Allah gave.
But now i believe what todays islam is not my religion. Only true resource is Kuran. Some groups way of thinking or traditions doesn't define my religion and that is why noone can use my beliefs to pressure me :)
Islam is a way of life. Obviously its going to seep into politics and when you mix religion with politics- you get fanaticism.
sorry to see people's (those who commented here) misunderstanding about islam. Islam is final version of a divine religion voluntarily accepted by millions of people around the world. Problem is not with Islam, its in understanding Islam. If behavior of muslims sometimes puts a dark light on it, it doesn't mean you say wrong to it.
People have to understand that Islam is just a religion, just like other religions its what the individual brings to the table. If i was born in a third world country and seen my relatives getting killed constantly, then i would have a different approach to religion. If i were born in Canada or America, then my view point would be completely different. People forget that religion is an Ideology, first came humans then came religion... We must break out of this cycle of hate that the media and the powers that be try to brain wash us with, by making us hate one another and not focusing on the bigger problems of the world.
Read books, Educate yourself. Watch less TV..
Great talk, i just want to point out that female circumcision is not a North African practice, by saying "North-African" that means that is happens in Tunisia, Morocco, Algeria, Libya, however in reality this practice does exist only in Egypt, thus we cannot generalize.
+Mejdi Ihsan yeah it's not in North Africa, central african problem
+Mejdi Ihsan Yup even in a christian-african state it is praticed!!!
It happens in east Africa too. Muslims and Christians do it.
beautiful,thanks
@032125
we agree on that point to some degree. religion intertwined with state = war. but when a war is needed by the state, the state pulls the religious heart strings to get people mobile.
still, the vast majority of Russians (approx 90%) are religious (usually russian orthidox).
this isn't really what i'm arguing. i think religion is poison that seems attractive because it puts our fears at ease by giving us simple answers to HUGE questions. and the accumulative result is very negative.
Would be interesting to hear his comment on the influence of Islam in the Ottoman Empire on the Armenian Genocide...
I met Mr Akyol at Acton Institute in Grand
Rapids, Michigan several years ago. A very interesting speaker and nice to share views on world events.
for how long will we still fight and misunderstand each other just to prove that what we believe is always right ....many years ago, one of the famous Islamic philosophers said " what i say is right and at the same time it is probable to be wrong ....and what u say is wrong which can be right " .
@032125
we agree on a lot more than i thought!!!
the only reason i even made my original statement is because of one thing you're saying here as well
"No anger or malice can match pure reason" and there lies the trouble with religion... it requires no reason.
my christian friend can discriminate against people who mean him no harm simply because his book says he must or he can claim he's a christian but not follow his own book and be reasonable. religion requires no reason, just blind faith.
Whatever it would take to whip them into line really. And looking at how wide and spread that line is, it's not too much to ask that they get in it for the greater good.
@032125
well, i can go no further on this. the three books i originally mentioned DO in fact work that way. they alone are supposed to contain the instructions from God on how to be as God wishes, and all else will burn in hell. this is not a narrow slice. this is these 3 religions in a nutshell, regardless of if the 'followers' of these religions even follow it. religious identification is largely based on geography - where you were born. born in USA = identify with christianity.
@032125 i'm not saying people shouldn't explore spiritual and mystical levels of existence, ask the biggest questions possible, read all religious texts (though not in their entirety, i've read many, QUITE A FEW) and listen to what is quaking deep within them. in fact that's exactly what i'm hoping people WILL DO.
what i'm describing as religion is close ended. these 3 religions act as though our obligation to a 'God' is, and can be held in one book, and ONLY in this books.
To add a bit...I agree with his talk about the reason why liberalism failed in the 20th century (though he forgot to mention the shitload of oil-dollars that financed Islamist movements). But again disagree with him on trying to emphasis on making a relation between islam and liberalism (similair to people who try to make a relation between islam and science). I think when people stop listening to their imams and sheikhs and think for themselves (regardless of religion),they can be enlightened.
@032125
maybe i haven't been clear enough. when i say 'religion' i'm talking about something close ended. it's not growing or changing. i'm NOT talking about spirituality or something like that.
the 3 religions for mentioned are basically based on interpreting something you believe was said by God, and written by desciples or prophets, etc... thousands of years ago. which is why i said 'religion is poison'. it's people arguing over what may or may not have been said 2000 years ago. as fact.
Okay some things to call this guy out on:
Stoning is very much a part of Islamic belief and has been established by all of the four major schools of thought. The scholars who deduced these opinions weren't some random Tom, Dick or Hairy. They weren't randomly brought in as traditions. There are various ahadith of people testifying against themselves to the Prophet in that they had committed adultery and were flogged for it.
You don't 'mingle' with the other gender at the Bait-Ullah. Cont.
The only reason these religions are getting so much special attention is that they become so popular. Any cultural movement, community or a family of those that becomes as widespread and diverse with as long as history as these will obviously suffer the same fate.
@032125
the religions i'm talking about in this example (that started this discussion) are based on believing GOD spoke and made his wishes for humans clear and that these holy books (the Bible, Quran, Torah) are the one and only word of God. i'm not talking about the other many religions, just these dominant three.
Believing that these books are the un-corrupted word of God is the basis for "Faith". there's nothing radical about what i'm saying.
I am trying to engage in your argument. The ideas about what Islam is is the first thing we need to establish. From there we could look at the argument in depth. Keep in mind I wrote about 2-4 comments. UA-cam sometimes doesn't show my comments so press control f and search my name. I also mentioned a Sufi women movement. To understand that movement we must first understand Islam as something more than a religion.
@032125 well said. i agree whole heartedly.
i have no anger, but i now, within my life refuse to help the promotion of religions, as they are based on the supposed words of 'God' (sort of absurd to start with) of which no one can even agree on an interpreation... it's what i was saying in the first place.
if you re-read my original statement you'll find it's actually level headed and free of anger.
if you re-read my original statement you'll find it's actually level headed and free of anger.
what a magnificent and needless to say indispensable lecture from Mr Akyol. I would love to get the book. Just brilliant....!
Islam is on the surface. When we study people, we should do so in the social context. The social drivers I like to call them. If you take Islam in the literal sense according to scriptures or our conception of religion than the answer may be clear, but when you consider how Islam is attached to these social drivers of society and how religious instituions play a part the answer might be different. Consider the Sufi women's movement that try to educate and empower women.
I never suggested otherwise.
@032125
i didn't grow up in the mid west or getting messed with by religious people. i used to argue exactly what you're arguing now. i really did. i still adhere to live and let live. but the simple fact is that christianity, Islam, and Judaism, by the very mandates of there holy scriptures, do not afford the open mindedness you're arguing for right now. therefor i can no longer play any role in it's promotion and i will not sit silent when it's promoted. no anger, just honestly.(see original)
😂😂😂 so the separation of women and men came from the Sassinid and Bizantine empires! What horeshit! It comes from the hadith and the Sura for women in the Quran. Absolute Taqiya
Ben Harrison and u clearly don't understand taqiya...
Accusing him of Taqiya shows you just found this video with no context on who this guy is or what he does and just wanted to sperg out because you think any Muslim who doesn't who doesn't follow the most extreme interpretations of Islamic scripture are just liars who are just trying to trick westerners into letting Muslims set up a Caliphate in Europe and America. Read the damn description, the guy writes for Turkish publications, these arguments are for Muslims as he's trying to get them to secularize by changing the interpretation of the Quran to be more liberal and dropping the Hadiths all together.
Thank you!
@032125
yaknow... the real problem is interpretation of the words in my comments. in person we'd talk and our intents would be easily understood and not misinterpreted. "religion is poison" because religion is NOT mysticism, but 'faith' usually based on tradition instead of personal exploration and consideration. i said religion is the stuff of madness because in all this time we haven't come to a shared interpretation.... if it's the word of God, the meaning is singular and all should know it.
@misscuriouser : muslims take interpretations of quran and some versus without context as you did now, i did it befor just do it and have fun to learn :)
Friend don't know how to pronounce "Muslim" and "Quran" and yet speaks authoritatively about Islam. "Where angels ........."
@032125
all i'm saying is. if you have a book that is your religion, that you use in justification for your acts, then you are claiming it is just that... justification. an interpretation by which you live. i think you'll find this is part of any religion. if my religion says that i don't eat unicorn meat on wednesday then i'd be going against my religion if i did.
God is not forcing to do anything. We have free will. The devil made certain promises to god. The devil told GOD that since god put the devil in the wrong the devil will lead the progeny of ADAM astray. The devil asked god for time until the day of judgement and told GOD that the devil make mankind worship the devil or each other. Anybody bit 1 GOD. GOD is the creator. Muhammad(peace be upon him) the final messenger. The GOD of MOSES(peace be upon him) is the ONLY GOD. Jesus is the true messiah
he is basing all the reforms on the european culture which is a big mistake , because in islam we have a better ruling system than democracy in its whole ideology , it is the Shura Ruling and it's in the quran(Chapter Ash Shura Verse 38) and it's the way of the first and only real caliphate the Rashidun Caliphate they were elected by the people of Medina and its close surroundings every one of the caliphs and they had an independent counsel like parlimant "Shura" and Independent Judicial System , etc.
(Follow Professor Mohammed Al-Massari for more info about the power of the nation in islam)
@Gunther Vincent if you claim it's perfect because it's from your perfect god and his perfect messenger, you have no choice to SAY it's better, or else....
Please don't associate those "who will kill in Allah's name with no other reason than Allah/texts" with Islam in the general sense because many would would not consider that Islam at all. So be more specific in your approach. We could look a look at fundamentalism and Islam if you would like. I was simply referring to your broad generalization of Islam and liberty.
Was anyone else distracted by his good looks?? Wow! And very impressively delivered, no visual aids and not in his mother tongue! My only problem is that he forgot to mention the Armenian genocide and the oppression of the Kurds...if the Turkish government were as open and democratic as he lets on, they wouldn't be so rigid about denying historical tragedies and denying the cultural/political rights of all citizens.
r u moslem??
@timetochilli Religions are never involved in war, they are merely used as an excuse. Israel is NOT a Jewish state, it is zionist. Pakistan's system is not that of an Islamic republic, and America is NOT a Christian country. but for some reason, the war being set up now (in the middle east) seems to be between religions, it is not. It is between Humanity and the Tyrants, as it has always been. All these monotheistic religions are one.
Now they have Erdogan...so much for freedom.
Why is it that in the Western World the really respected scientists are smart enough to not believe in a Religious God, so much so that we expect it from them. But in the Islamic world we expect the exact opposite. Individual free thinkers understand the need for Religion to control the mindless masses but are smart enough not to get snagged in it's net. A highly intelligent free thinker with a strong problem solving ability would be able to take one look at all religions and say that is just ridiculous. NO MUSLIM can come out on a stage and speak form a platform of science.. NOT ONE
@gellertmag and in France, Spain and many other countryes muslim are forced to take of the hijab....and sorry to tell you, but if you don't know there is still a place in Istambul where christians have big curches and their prist act as they want...
It really seems like this individual hasn't studied Islam fully. With everything that he's said it is clear that he hasn't picked up the books of Hadith (Bukhari, Muslim, Tirmidi, ibn Maja) etc. In Islam we have the Quran and the teachings (practicalities) of the Prophet (SWS), the Sunnah. I don't know how to get a hold of this individual but someone should inform him to start reading Hadith.
It's not a matter of justification from religious scripture, but how societies change and evolve overtime. Islam is not so simple and it's not so one dimensional. Many people differ on what Islam actually is. They consider themselves muslims based on branching ideologies, cultures, practices, attitudes ect. For example, is it possible for an individual to have no belief in god and still consider him/herself a Muslim based on partaking in traditional practices and group identity/family origins?
Whenever one believe in only one path.... He is bound to be fundamentalist...the second step may be radicalism and so on....
Problem with such believe is that even in its best senses it will tolerate (ot respect) the other believe...
Such believe will always aspire to influence other.....
# liberty aspire to be not bounded by believe....
# be a seeker than being a believer...
# if there is god, why to worry.... and if there is no god, then why to discuss...
we know Islam, but what you said is not Islam, I know a little bit about Turkey history, your problem is that you attribute all problems to the religion, thats why many of people in Turkey want to get rid of it. Because they dont know Islam, and they get all information from media so they envisage a religion which media leads to...
What does the Hadith from those scholars tell you dudie! People like you'all who misunderstanding Islam and misinterpreting our Prophet's life are main cause of why we are all in conflict with each other, not developed, extremism (Prophet sav literally says that don't become extremist in anything). Hadith are interpreted in a way that people misunderstand Islam ! Learn how our Prophet sav treated women, non-muslims (like the indiv who killed his uncle Hamza), his business life, etc...
They didn't give Christians equal status in the Ottoman Empire. You had to wear a special robe, pay a tax, and could not have a sword.
yes it is true, but I havent heard of wearing a special robe. What is it about can you tell me?
Not an equal legal status but a compatible social status and also a chance to be successful and get rich.
It is a fact that Greeks, Armenians and (even) Jews (who could be considered the lowest rank) were generally richer than muslims.
That extra tax they paid was for the military service which they were not obliged to (most of the time not allowed either) and was just pocket money when compared to 3-5 years of military service Turks had to accomplish during the decline of the empire.
If for example USA exercised similar social liberalism, there would have been millionare american indians all around. They were given their "political freedom" in a concentration camp instead. On paper it was all fine.. They could also wear their feathers and rifles too.. wow
True. Also wearing a burka was a good idea if you didn't want to become a captive of the mohammedans' right hands and forced into a harem
@@liyiung3723 The *Prophet Mohammed(PBUH)* _was not a true muslim._ *Islam* _has nothing to do with Islam._
Well to be honest you have a particular idea of what a muslim actually is rather than looking at the broad diversity within Islam itself. The fundamentalist muslim? One that takes the religious scriptures literally right. Textbook Muslim, but keep in mind that many if not most Muslims don't at all take literal interpretations of the scriptures, especially the western Diaspora. What they find true, differs. They fights over truths, they accept different truths and they may not consider it trut
I agree with him that 99% of western people considers some stupid practices of middle eastern peoples as practice of Islam whereas they are not. however, separation of woman from men exists in Quran. men and women pray separately in mosques. Kabbah is only an exception, since they just walk. But still, Islam does not command women to walk, sit, eat separately from men. Just like other Abrahamic religions it secludes women.
Mr. Speaker--it not pronounced Mozlem, but Muslim.
It's ok if he just have a problem with pronounce the word because it won't make people confused, but when he doesn't have enough information to be standing there and talk this is the real problem!
Religion, by it's very mandate within it's writings, are not 'live and let live'. the "religious" people you know are not the best people you know because they study the books of their religion hard and follow it, but they are great because they don't. they cherry pick the nice stuff and it brings them comfort.
i no longer take a neutral stance. i'm sorry. OF COURSE anyone can believe what they want as long as it doesn't hurt others, but one day i realized this is true of no religion.
The way the presenter talks sounds realistic and convincing; however, as a Muslim, I found this speech too stereotypic. For questions like gender separation, there is a clear supported answer by Qur'an and hedeath.
One more point, Any book; here Quran when shuns interpretation becomes too rigid to be followed.
"I am trying to engage in your argument"
No you are not.
I never judge Islam, solely by its scriptures. I simply said that the texts, or Allah are used to justify horrid deeds. The actions of the practitioners of Islam have far more consequence than Islam in theory. The sufi movement that you mentioned has had very little impact on Islam on a whole. I'm not concerned about the sufi movement; I am concerned about people who will kill in Allah's name with no other reason than Allah/texts say so.
Again the idea of Islam as a whole is problematic. Islam is much more complex and can differ regionally, individually and culturally so be more specific. This was the point of my comment. The example I gave is considered an Islamic movement by the members in that region of the world. Let's take another example, the Mercy Movement in Canada, particularly the Women's helpline project. Again your conception of Islam is clear and it is more rooted in fundamentalism Islam.
I don't judge Islam on its texts since holy texts are used to justify everything. There were Christians in favor of, and opposed to the Trans Atlantic Slave trade. Islam has yet to provide this liberty, or peace, or equality that its adherents claim is "true" Islam. I judge Islam by the practitioners, and its leaders, like the guy who shot that Pakistani girl in the face...what's her name...Malala Yusufzai. Islamic texts were used to justify there actions. Islam and liberty is an oxymoron.
Also keep in mind I'm not Muslim.
There is no such thing as being hyper-secular. You're secular or not. Turkey is secular. If you think that someone or some regulations are hyper-secular, you dont believe in secularism and democracy mainly.
misquoting...
In 2020..u see now..turkey most powerfull islam country..who will be protect the palestine..erdogan!!! ALLAHHU AKBAR!!!
Cont.There are many exceptions when it comes to the Umrah and Hajj and its rulings that differ from common rituals and practices. Both genders are to be focused on their worship and nothing else. The genders cannot mingle with each other in society unless there is an actual dire need of it.
Honor killings, and female circumcision are indeed unfounded beliefs yet a lot of what this fellow postulates reeks of 'Progressive Muslim rhetoric' - trying to reform Islam to please the Western World.
Your facts are wrong about female genital mutilation, check the WHO stats, the UN stats, and the CBC stats. It goes on in England, the US, and nearly 100% of women in Egypt have undergone this trauma.
+Margaret Bailey Did they made a differece in the cultural background. For example: Where they from arabic origins or did the immigrate from a other culture to a arabic culture and in which extent did they take their traditions with them???
Then it would be interesting, can you give me a link to the WHO statistic/research.
70% of women in ethiopia had gone through fgm and its a Christian country
+Margaret Bailey here is an interesting fact, why the fuck male genital mutilation happen in us even though they are not muslim. and it is 100% legal AND encouraged. how fucked up is that?
That is a north african tradition. Not only predates Islam but cross-cuts many local religons. Some accuse Islam for "not banning" the action but one may use the general rule "All disgusting actions are banned" and this can be based on Quran: And when they commit a shameful act, they say, "We found our fathers doing
it, and Allah has ordered us to do it." Say, "God never enjoins a conduct that is shameful. You impute such lies to God as you do not know." - A'RAF : 28
Oh by the way, refering to my former comment: It doesn´t mean that I support this!!
Nope... Islamic or not (which is totally a non-islamic thing) I don´t care. It has to be forbidden and illegal!!!
Knowledge as well as thoughts are very poor. What he believes, he tells.
@032125
the fights are over what some book written long ago, interpreted many times over, and which most, even very open minded, historians believe look to have never happened. how will it end?? go grab a bible and read a few pages, then try and tell someone what you took from it. it will be vague at best. i'm tired of people's violence, or oppression of others rights being based on words of which none and even agree on the interpretation of! not even among others of that same religion.
the whole idea is to help prevent the first steps the person can take for going for sex out of the circle of marriage, thats the point behind the segregation some people will say and why its not happening in muslim pilgrimage its because the mind is supposed to be set there on worshiping God so the mind wont usually think of such stuff during pilgrimage thats why maybe there is no need for segregation some people may answer
Sorry, but he is using only the Quaran to imply that there is no killing apostasy or stoning. Totally ignoring the Hadith.
I did not accept Islam voluntarily and I can't leave it publicly (at least until i can get a permanent residence in a western country).
Until, Muslims denounce Hedeath, you can't bring modernity.
As a muslim... somethings this guy has said is wrong. He is a hadith denier. Islam also is not a Liberal or Conservative religion. Im afraid this person is wrong in many things.
Several Southeast Asian nations 'colonized' in the past, indeed exhibit the worse kind of backward rogue-ish behavior in all their religious strife. Some are violent in nature and extreme/fundamental in their views and not truly religious in origin. Blame it on the general backwardness and lack of civility among its nations' peoples. Too bad the worst scapegoat is centered around the belief of Islam, giving it a real bad name by peoples of other faiths. Again, its the people, not a faith.
Please tell of your selective fascism, does this include some form of genocide or indoctrination of Muslims into the religion of your choosing?
I don't see how you can actively attempt to destroy an ancient religion like Islam. There are still people who worship the Greek Gods. As an atheist I generally would prefer all religions to die out, but I don't see that happening ever, so I think we should just try to get along and try to have some kind of understanding
So instead of trying to engage with my argument. You raise some other bull shit that has little to do with my rebuttal. That's called a Red Herring fallacy. Good job! :D
he "forgets" Kamal Ata turk which rejected islam (practicaly was a enemy of islam) thus making turkey a liberal democracy.
He wasnt rejected ?
Yea, thats why he translated kuran to turkish, so citizen can understand it. Perfect understanding; bravo (!)
islam could never florish because of colonization from the west and placing dictatorships to rule over the people. so who is to blame ?
somebody talks about islam but which islam? and who are they? in the modern world, so many people say that ı am müslim. ı am living in turkey and everybody has different ideas about islam. and a man who comes from turkey talks about islam. true or false. ı think ıf somebody will explain islam, he must know real islam. he must speak from quran and prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him) quotes. You cant explain islam with your own ideas. dont speak about our religion falsely in everwhere
anna karenina yah. that's the fact. at this age peoples whom has no knowledge of Islam. don't know Quran and Sunnah but advising people about Islam. they Interpret Islam as their Idea.
Allah swears by what you see and what you do not see that the Arabic Quran is the utterance of an honorable messenger a revelation from the Lord of the universes. If Mohammad had uttered any other sayings against Us We would have taken away his right hand (Mohammad wrote the Quran with his right hand) then We would have surely cut off his aorta vein none of you could have defended him 69:37-46 So the ones who wrote the hadith sunna and Sharia law resalah their hands and Hearts should be cut off
No it isn't because Islam is widely interpreted and does not recessionary reflect text or scriptures.
The title of this video is an oxymoron...
Blah blah blah . . .
what does he mean no death punishment for apostates in the Quran :
Qur'an (4:89) - "They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."
Very unfair explanation of Islamic values.There is no space in Islam to abode secularism and anyone should try not. You are making interpretation based on your own mentality and understanding of Islam.Your words and commentary are representing the hostage of secular influenced state.
Well said. Thank you for not practicing taqiya, unlike the moderate islamists.
Lol and your words are based on the understanding of Arab and Persian scholars who lived hundreds of years ago. Everything is subjective and most scholars are corrupt
Such a blatant liar. The Noble Qur'an says, "When you ask them (the wives of the Prophet, may peace and blessings be upon him) for something, ask behind a barrier. That is purer for your heart and their hearts (33:53)." Muslim men and women have always taken the Prophet, may peace and blessings be upon him, and his wives as models. The reason there is no separation in the Kaaba is because the worship is circular, so there is no practical way for separation as opposed to a mosque where everyone is facing in the same direction, where women beginning with the Prophet's life have stood behind men.If you are a liberal who is not following the Qur'an and Sunnah, just say so; don't distort Islam in an anachronistic way.
Stay away from this individual.
who are you to say that and why?
@@mumin9436
He doesn’t believe homosexuality is haram in Islam.
@@MohammedAlSharif2002 ohhhh.....i was only starting to watch the video. Are you from saudi arabia btw ?
@@mumin9436 yes
@@MohammedAlSharif2002 Years back i read fatwa of Sheikh Abd al-Aziz Bin Baz on Women driving as haraam and its explanation ....but now many scholars dont see it as haraam and recently saudi arabia removed the law... what do you think? which opinion you follow ?
Bullshite
I will support anyone looking to reform an extreme religion. BUT as long as you believe a book that a person wrote is perfect and divine, you will never achieve freedom.