Cigar Box Guitar - Setting the action at the nut
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- Опубліковано 11 січ 2013
- This is the way I make guitars...so it doesn't mean it's Gospel, it's just my approach. In this video I explain about the action (the height of the strings above the fingerboard), particularly at the nut (ie the bit that the strings pass over at the top of the guitar). I like to play with a slide AND my bare fingers, so I can do chords, bass runs, harmonies and solos..whether the guitar is fretted or fretless, so having a reasonably low action facilitates this.
I was prompted to do this video after looking at a guitar by another maker earlier in the week - it was fretted, but had VERY high action at the nut, around 8mm, as he'd used a 10mm diam. brass bolt as a nut. This meant it was pretty much impossible to get the strings down to the frets, which was a shame as he'd gone to the trouble to put frets on it. It made me realise that many cigar box guitar builders don't truly understand the potential of the instrument, neither do they appreciate the subtleties of playing slide guitar. This is a difficult area, as you don't need to be an expert player to make a good guitar -a great example is Leo Fender...he was no sort of player at all). However, because playing open tuned slide is such a specialist field compared to ordinary guitar, and cigar box guitar is an even more niche subject, a sound understanding of playing technique and guitar set-up can be real bonus to help you make a better guitar.
Having the action a little higher than a 'normal' guitar can make slide playing a bit easier..but that means only 1 or 2mm higher than normal. If you set the action really high, then you'll only be able to play slide...but with a lower action there's a whole world of other sounds and playing techniques available to you...irrespective of whether your guitar is fretted or fretless. Once you can start using the slide AND the fingers of your left hand there's a much wider range of expression available, and lots of possibilities for a player to be able to expand their technique. The cigar box guitar has the potential to be made and set-up to open up these possibilities, rather than inhibit them.
This is something I've come to gradually. When I first started making cigar box guitars they were fretless, and had pretty high action. I started going to players' workshops with some great slide players, and I learned that there's a lot more to playing slide than just sliding. Kevin Brown opened my eyes to the whole combination of slide, fretted, partial chord and bass accompaniment played on the 6 string guitar...and I've developed my own approach to playing 3 string cigar box guitar. Kevin influenced me a huge amount..his tone and phrasing is fantastic, but I also have to thank guitarists such as Bryn Haworth, Catfish Keith, Steve James and Jim Crawford for their inspiration and guidance. Their influences on my playing style have affected the way I like to make and set-up my guitars. I really believe that the possibilities and range of the cigar box guitar can be significantly extended by having it set-up to make both slide and bare finger playing easy and comfortable..and the key to this is a properly installed nut, which I talk about in the video. Watch out for more handy hints in the near future!
www.chickenbonejohn.com/
I have been building for about a year so far, have tried several types of different things for a nut; bone, hardwood, plastic, metal bolt etc. and the easiest most uniform method, i have found is using a jumbo fret at the "0" fret marker. This gives me very precise level string action that is very low. Easy to play with or without a slide. Thanks for all your wonderful videos, keep up the great work!
People may say that in the cbg world there are no rules, but really you re showing what cbg is all about. Every cbg is a custom creation, and usually built to be easily played, action is part of that easier playing as it is with a six string. so the lower the "action" the easier to fret and play. the rest of the info as well as the examples are great little extras that one should consider when building. thanks for explaining it and showing that it an easy adjustment!!
These are critically important tips. Thank you so much. I love your choice of topics as well as your instruction.
Great information for the novice builders like myself! Thanks for the tips.
Thanks Chickenbone John. On my first three string cigar box build and you helped me clear up the dilemma of how high to set the strings.
Great advice, sir! Thanks for taking the time to post this video. Very helpful.
Great video John! Good explanation of all the ins and outs. Planning my first guitar and want to make it half way decent to play. Thanks for sharing all your playing and how to videos! Awesome!
Just about to build my first cigar box guitar and found this really useful, many thanks...
I started building over a year ago and I have learned so much from you .thank you so much !!!!!!
Great info and answered a lot of questions I had about setting the action on my cbg. Thanks!
just about to set up the action on a 3 string slide guitar and you confirmed what i thought (similar to a regular guitar) thanks heaps, plus its in metric makes it easier.
Great video! Thanks John. I've built a couple of "regular" electric guitars, and I am now just about ready to set the action on my new build. very first, cigar box guitar, which is why I was looking for your video (or one like it).After watching you, I don't need to look any further, my questions have all been answered, So. back to the shop!Thanks again, and great playing as well. I am now a subscriber.
I havn't built a CBG yet but am planning too. And I thank you for this video as I was wandering all week about the action. Never thought that the higher action would change the octave levels when playing.
Excellent video John. Very useful information.
I have not many builds under my belt but I usually use a dime at the nut and a nickel plus a snare hair at the 12th and this works pretty good. I gotta build another one soon - thiis time for myself.
Thank you John.
this was a huge help, thank you
Love the look on your face when you hit a sharp note!Kind of like when Granny lets some gas at the barbie.
Good old granny, gotta love her!
Thanks for the video. I bought my cbg a couple of years ago from a shop and found it was unplayable (nearly a whole tone out at the 12th). I took it back and got a replacement, which was better but not great. I've just shaved 2mm off the nut and reglued it, and adjusted the bridge too. I'll finally be able to start playing it!
I don't calculate anything apart from the fret spacing, everything else is done by eye and measuring as the build progresses. When using a bolt / machine screw as a nut, the important thing is to set out the scale & fret spacing from the centre of the bolt, not from the front face as you would do with a conventional bone nut.
Thank you so much for this information, my first build is slide only but my action on the neck is way too high as it's making this difficult as you say to play with my fingers. I will be doing a rebuild soon as I love this cbg I built 4 months ago, thank you John love your videos, music, and teaching always, cheers
awesome video mate !!! good advice for sure
Great Free information. just How I like it. Thanks John
Awesome tips mate
Really informative and well explained tutorial.Just what I was looking for.If ever I bump into you,ChickenboneJohn,i will buy you a beer!...
Very cool tip. I had made my first backyard guitar and had the action way too high and tried making frets out of coat hanger but it all went to hell. Will start over and make a 3 string + 1 bass cbg but am thinking fretless and as you said only need to be 2mm off the fretboard. Thanks
Thanks for the information.
I'm into my first build, and this is a super video, John. Cheers mate!
Check our full series of 18 videos on how to build a cigar box guitar. ua-cam.com/play/PLFzHbUHMK1p5xJvMjMtG3E0Z_tDmWwLps.html
Check our full series of 17 videos on how to build a cigar box guitar ua-cam.com/play/PLFzHbUHMK1p5xJvMjMtG3E0Z_tDmWwLps.html
Hi John Thank you for such a informative Video now I need to lower the strings
great, very thanks!
You play better than half the guys here in Tennessee.... I'm gonna have to order 2..1 being a bass.... I'll be in touch
Thanks Chicken bone you just saved me a lot of trouble..
I totally agree with all that...wish this video had've been around a couple of years ago so I didn't have to work it all out the hard way!
Cool!
If you're using a bolt for regular electric guitar nut. Is there a way to calculate your basic action before setting it?
thanks ozzy
where can i find to buy one of your 4 string dulcistrummers
You have inspired me and I have started my own web site and made some youtube vid s box guitars mike black
Hi John, Very helpful video regarding string action. I am going to make my first CBG in the coming weeks, I have only been attempting to play a guitar for a few months. (6 string acoustic).
What do you think is the best for a beginner, a fretted finger board ,( fret wire) or mark the fret positions on the neck (flat) so I know where I should be putting my fingers for various chords. I would like to be able to use a slide as well.
+Kevin R For making your first guitar, 3 stirngs fretless is easiest and just mark the positions. Keep the action (height of strings over the fingerboard) low. If you need parts , checkout my website www.chickenbonejohn.com
John can you tell me why some cbg units have 20 frets and others have either 17,21,22,24 etc even if the scale length stays the same around 25.5"? Is it due to the box size? Thanks to anyone for the help.
It simply depends on what length fretboard that you end up being left with after fitting the neck to the box.
Thank you sir. I appreciate your help.
Checkout my website wwwdotchickenbonejohndotcom...none in stock at the moment , but I'll build to order no problem
Thanks for the helpful video! If I want ~1mm at the nut and 2-3mm at f12, how do i work out how high the bridge should be?
There's no simple answer, because it depends on whether the neck is installed parallel to the top or with a back angle, and also what height the top of the fretboard is relative to the top of the box. Trial and error is the easiest way I'm afraid!
Have you seen Crows 1hr cbg instructions on cigarboxnation? I'll be following that reasonably closely, so its just a long straight bit of wood with no real frills. Only realchanges i will make are suggestion that i use machineheads instead of eye bolts and a zero fret as well as the nut...
I just bought one of those mass produced bluesbox guitars, the bolt is massive. I've bought a proper cigar box instead
now you told it, it seem logik ! thanks
Do you stay 2mm all the way
Running from around 1mm or lower at the nut, rising to 2- 3mm at the 12th fret
What makes you think I want to hear about you getting some action
Oh.......wait......guitar action........
Nevermind.......(sorry)
two words: zero fret
A zero fret is great for getting super-low action, but for playing slide, most people prefer a bit more height at the nut.
@@chickenbonejohn714 seems like you could raise the action at the bridge and with a zero fret have nice fingering action in the lower neck region and a higher slide type action farther up
@@mwarnken1234 Most slide players like more resistance to the strings "bottoming out" under the slide near the nut, so heavier strings and a slightly raised action are the order of the day. Zero nuts are great for low action, but not so good for guitars set up for slide. Raising the action at the bridge will make it harder further up the neck to fret it and will do virtually nothing to help prevent 'clunking' the slide on the frets nearer the nut. Setting the action for slide playing is always a compromise - the better, more sensitive player you are, the lower action and lighter strings you can cope with, but generally heavier strings and a very slightly raised action is the way to go.