The Lannisters: a Psycho Analysis - A Song of Ice and Fire - Game of Thrones
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- Опубліковано 21 вер 2024
- Ah, the Lannisters. “A psychologist would have a field day” - we’re under-qualified, but let’s have a field day anyway. @girlnettles and my good friend Sean Mac (who does a dead ringer Charles Dance Tywin) join me to break down Tywin, Cersei, Jaime, and Tyrion, and maybe a Lancel, a Joanna, and a Gemma or Kevan... "and Moonboy, for all we know."
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title image uses "Lannister Family" by Sebastian Giacobino
Please have Sean back on again! Great reader, great contributor!
He can't stop me from coming back I'll show up in his living room.
@@herowithathousandvoices 😆👏
he sounds soooo much like nikolaj coster waldau it actually gave me chills
Nettles and Sean fed off each other SO WELL, CHEMISTRY WAS MUAHH
Tee hee hee 💕
Don't forget to restart the stream. It forces the algorithm gods to take notice and recommend it to new friends. 🥂✌️
Thanks for the reminder! I will
Ah yes, the algorithm gods must have their due!
I will leave a comment or two
I hate getting caught up in the prechat and don’t notice that I have to refresh to catch the stream. Like, what is everyone talking about?!
I’m not a simp. So no.
That is such a hard chapter, and Nettles, you rocked both Cercei's pride and the horror of what was done to her
❤ thank you love
I thought no voice but Charles Dance would ever be Tywin Lannister to me, but that additional rumble is perfect!
"Oops all war crimes" 😂😂😂😊
Oops I did it again! Tywin ( every time!)
Kevan had a very pragmatic reason for allowing Cersei's walk of shame. Once he accepted the position of regent Kevan believed he had to break Cersei's powerbase in Kingslanding. This is more or less confirmed in the ADWD epilogue. Kevan sent all the Lannister guards with loyalties to Cersei away from King's landing once he took the position as regent. And he knew that she would lose the respect of the common people after her walk of shame. I don't believe Kevan took any pleasure in Cersei's humiliation, but he believed it was necessary. Kevan told Cersei that she was unfit to rule when she asked him to be her hand. And after he left King's landing Cersei proved him absolutely right. Once he took power Kevan wanted to ensure that Cersei would have no ability to undermine him. Which is why he originally proposed that Cersei should retire to Casterly Rock rock, and leave the regency to him.
that's good analysis 🫡
And he got killed for doing his job way too well. Suffering from success.
Awesome show! Thank you for being able to sit back and enjoy Nettles and Seans amazing read with us, not many host would be able to allow their guest to shine. They nailed it, it was almost like listening to a soundtrack of a stage production. Seans first appearance was a success. ❤
Sean is fantastic I can’t wait for you to have him back on!
If David doesn't bring me back I'll show up in his living room!
hahah this has been discussed also
I'm obviously not the only one super impressed by Sean's reading. So he will do the audio book for The Winds of Winter right?
If homie Sean isn't already a voice actor or audio book reader. He mfn SHOULD
The drip simply don't quit for Tywin
Dude literally drinking out a pump cup during battle
@@soxpeewee and likely not even enjoying it! He strikes me as I think nettles brought up as someone who has to “ dress up for the rubes”
The only thing I think you missed about Jamie is that he was young, the others knew what it meant to be a kings guard but Jamie was still in a naive youth much like Jon going to the wall and Tyrion being the only one to speak truth to him, because Jon probably reminded him of Jaimie and didn’t want him to grow bitter because they put him up for something without being real about it. And here I must say ned failed big time, but I know he thought he was protecting Jon by him going to the wall and take the black. But yeah Jon is the Jamie if his eyes had been opened before he accepted the path he went on. And one took the black and one took the white , it’s just great parallels by GRRM.
Jaime didn't accept his path. It was forced on him. He's finally accepting his path 15 years later.
I like parallel you just put out there. Tyron realized he was looking at a young Jaime when he looked at Jon. I never thought of that before
Thanks Dave for bringing us so many great streams and guests. These panels are always delightful. You guys crushed it on every level today. 🥂
And you have a tasty and gorgeous brain and always make me laugh when I replay this and read what y’all were saying in the chat.
If the vibe is right I'll sing Mariah Carey on one of David's streams just for you.
@@herowithathousandvoices I would die from the pleasure of it!
@@girlnettles Lmao to make you laugh is a gift I do not waste. You and I will always be! 💅🏼💖
@@herowithathousandvoices don’t tease me, I might like it. 😉
I totally agree that Tywin would never let Cersei do the walk of shame. It is interesting that Kevan normally tries to be like Tywin, (or at least back him totally) but when he dies, Kevan does things so differently from how Tywin would.
Cersei is also the key member of House Lannister's tie to the crown. Myrcella and Tommin may (falsely) be the heirs to the crown, but if Cersei, who has married into the Crown, can be undermined, then it opens the door for any strong polical House to use the kids as pawns (like House Tyrell or Martel)
House Baratheon is supposedly in charge, but we all know, as readers, that House Lannister has been in charge since Roberts death.
@@dandeleon2764Tywin in planned, started and at least in part funded Robert’s rebellion
@swayback7375 he did none of that. He stayed completely silent on the matter and completely out of the action until after it was clear that the targs were losing
Kevan doesn't have the cunning or strategy of Tywin. Kevan is a second son, which is part of the reason he has always let Tywin lead.
Kevan has a lot of the same motivation but none of the secrets Tywin has also. Kevan looks down on sex workers and the like but unlike Tywin doesn't use their services.
@@dandeleon2764Kevan doesn't care by the time Cersei's walk of shame happens, if he's not actually somewhat satisfied by it.
He's pissed about Lancel and turned down being Hand because he thinks Cersei is a trainwreck who not only won't heed his advice but may actually plot against him if she's feeling angry.
He's smart enough to know he's not Tywin. He can't control Cersei or plot like Tywin.
I also think Kevan thinks the Faith Militant isn't worth fighting, especially since his son is now effectively their hostage.
Cersei broke the Lannisters main rules:
1)Take care of family (she screwed over Lancel, Jaime, Tyrion and her kids)
2)Do whatever you want but don't embarrass the Lannisters (she's constantly drunk and foolish AND got caught in incest and schemes)
3)Never give up Lannister power (she armed the Faith Militant, gave away a fleet, and simultaneously alienated the Tyrell alliance and made Margery the beloved Queen )
Kevan and any remaining Lannisters are going to react badly to this
Nettles and Sean were fantastic! Great voice acting! 👏🏾
And a Princess Bride quote, too!
Nice team Lightbringer. Keep up the great work @girlnettles 🎉.
I love nettles.
Love you too💋🐉
Great stream
Sean, amazing Tywin and Oberyn
GirlNettles, awesome Cersei and Bronn
LML, great Kevan
lol "great Kevan" is the most runner up thing ever hahahaha
Honestly, of all the Lannisters I quite like Genna. She has the sensability of Kevan or Tywin, the courage of Jaime and the stubbornness of Cersei.
I wonder if she orchestrated the Red Wedding seeing as she's actually a Frey.
i listened to a portion of this audio only, and omfg it literally sounds like Charles Dance is on this stream!😎
Shawn (sean?)’s voice acting was so good man. When you told him to talk louder i was like what?! No! Lol. I think he was excellent
Sean
I wonder how many people the first time they read the books hated Jaime and then loved him on the second read through?
awesome as usual ty guys, extra points for all the voices
Sean's tywin voice is second only to Charles dance in the flesh
I just wanted to thank you for streaming and then posting the footage as a video
And you made my day, love 💕
Thank you
Excellent stream folks. You all killed it, but especially Sean: those voices were so on-point it was scary!
I think that Jaime, like all children is looking for echoes of his parental role models in a partner. Since his mother wasn't there for him, he looks for female versions of his father. Cersei is the female version of the father he had (in his eyes), while Brienne is the female version of who he wanted his father to be while he was still an idealistic child.
If Tywin did plant Shae on Tyrion then that makes his injunction to Tyrion, "You will NOT take that whore to court!", a particularly devious bit of reverse psychology. It implies that he expected Tyrion to defy him, and thereby give him an agent inside the Red Keep and The Tower Of The Hand while he's off fighting the war. Of course he can't keep in touch with her well at that time, but at least he'll get the inside goz on all Tyrion's plans when he gets back. It also explains Shae's curiously fierce "devotion", refusal of "go away" money and insistence that she's not afraid of Tywin. Of course she isn't: she knows she'll be safest and get the most money if she stays with Tyrion until ordered to rat him out.
As an aside, I don't think Tywin's disapproval of Tyrion's whoring despite using whores himself is neccessarily as hypocritical as people think. Tywin doesn't have some moral objection to Tyrion using whores per se, what he disapproves of is his habit of falling in love with them, revealing too much to them and making himself (and by extension the Lannisters) vulnerable. The Tysha episode is not him teaching Tyrion "don't use whores", it's him telling Tyrion, "keep whores in their place because you can't trust them".
Love it when you guys do reader's theatre!!! David- great job!!! You make the best crones!! Sean and Nettles very talented!!!
I think GirlNettles is right to be a little obsessed with Lann the Clever, in-fact I would argue that Lann the Clever and Azor Ahai are one and the same and that furthermore, both these individuals and Brandon Of The Bloody Blade are also one and the same. As to why I believe this, it's like how in Dune the Atreides and Harkonnens are joined by blood without knowing because Jessica is unknowingly the Baron Vladimir's daughter. I also think it might be a play on The Accursed Kings historical fiction series which was a key inspiration for the series, the idea that the Starks and the Lannisters are both cursed bloodlines because of the crimes of their mutual Ur-ancestor.
With regards to what you said about Cersei resenting Jaime because she can't claim Casterly Rock despite being the eldest because she's not a man I see it also as an inverse of the Amethyst Empress/Bloodstone Emperor situation where you have a younger son who resents not getting to inherit because the GEOTD does it like Dorne where eldest inherits regardless of gender.
It's also a continuation of the unjust nature of how women are treated in this world which I think largely has it's roots in this original sin, this crime Azor Ahai committed.
Fantastic stream, friends.👏 This was great fun! Dave, his guests, and the chat were all on 🔥 tonight. Bravo, and thank you!❤
Bravos?! Where!? Squire, fetch my greatsword!
Out of all the Valyrian steel swords, which would you prefer to wield?
Can Sean just reread the entire book series in his Tywin voice please! Thank you 😂
Please have your friend back David. Love his voice and input.
Sean is fucking awesome. You should have him on again
Thank you for my next art project. GOT burn book!! ❤❤❤
I had quite the revelation with you guys chatting about Jaime only being attracted to powerful women. I had never even realized that before with all my own Lannister psycho analysis.
It definitely ties him to another powerful, naughty swordsman: Daemon the Rogue Prince. I'm seeing all the similarities now.
On the topic of the Lanisters being Machisvellian, they are kind of a good demostration why the misquoted version of it doesn't work.
The actual quote goes: "And here comes in the question whether it is better to be loved rather than feared, or feared rather than loved. It might perhaps be answered that we should wish to be both; but since love and fear can hardly exist together, if we must choose between them, it is far safer to be feared than loved."
But also: "Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred; because he can endure very well being feared whilst he is not hated, which will always be as long as he abstains from the property of his citizens and subjects and from their women."
The Lanisters are firmly in the hated cathegory, despite what Tywin said abouth helping back up thoes who bend the knee. A big reason why they are hated is exactly Tywin's "oops war crime" approach to warfare.
That track suit is actually on point.
Sean has a amazing voice
Anything to do with the Lannisters' is always delicious, what a treat. Also the voice acting was the icing on the cake. Thank you.
One aspect I thought of just now is this:
The Starks as a House is, when the story begins, at a place where there has been quite along time where they have their authority secured and respected within their own domain.
For the Lannisters we have Turin growing up at a point in time where the Lannister House is severely risking on continue on a rough downward thread. There is basically rebellion within their own domain and among of their vassals. To quell this always need some sort of ruthness when the smell of blood is too much in the waters, so to speak.
And it’s the background of this that Tywin rules and plans. It’s a lived experience that brute force and authoritarian ways where the ways needed. Or at least, that was had a noticeable effect.
The Starks have been forced or chosen to be ruthless to claim and uphold the authority of their domain and their vassals. But the brunt of that is longer back in history. No one living at the time of the start of the story as any own memory of strife within the Stark domain, no one actively moving to from within the North to sidestep or de-throne the Starks.
So the Starks are in a historic period of governing a stable area and doing a good job of if. At least for two generations there hasn’t really been any questioning of their leadership.
For the Lannisters it’s still less than 1 full generation since the latest internal challenge and they challenge arouse because of indifference and not taking interest and being meek. This is how Tywin’s father and his leadership is displayed as.
So Tywin filled in the blanks of what was missing and when it was consolidated comes the events that l as to and started Robert’s Rebellion. And that time period entailed a lot of cut throat chaos and uncertainty. And in uncertainty behaviors become even more authoritarian especially if there isn’t a solid secure base and habit to begin with.
So, interestingly we kind of inflate the Starks’ overall “goodness” because we see Ned’s leadership and impact and, understandably, don’t take into account the ruthlessness that likely occurred in earlier generations.
And with Lannisters it is all a lot more fresh.
I guess it depends on whether you're speaking of judging a person or an entire house. judging an entire house is a little bit of a squishy endeavor, because you're lumping a lot of people together who are not similar.
@@DavidLightbringerand even similar, they’re still not the same person!
These types of mass judgment is literally bigotry
"I'll do the septas! I'll do the septas' voices when they come on!" bro I'm screaminggggg 🤣🤣
Loved the voices from Sean! He and Nettles are 🔥 voice actors!!
Another great voice actor joins the crew. Kudos to you, Sean and Dave and Nettles. Watching this video has been a light in a whole lotta darkness
"eve did nothing wrong" is so accurate I could cry
It might be my favorite of Dave's videos. It honestly inspired me to think more about spirituality.
Sean’s voice work is genuinely incredible.
I think the turning point for Cat was realizing Jamie and Tyson had the same sorry about both and the dagger and her maidenhead and she realized Littlefinger was not who she thought he was and a liar.
This stream is 🔥
Thankyoucomeagain
Great stream! Fantastic work by your guests!! You always collect the best cohosts lol
Another enriching stream. Nothing but High level analysis and A1 Voice Work. Thank you all!
Nice Jaime voice Sean!
'Good stream. 'Loved the guests.
Cat don't want no scrubs. Great stream BTW.
I do disagree about Cersei ‘deserving’ the Walk of Shame. Being stripped naked, especially in front of a crowd, against your will is sexual humiliation and that is a form of sexual abuse. And I think there’s a point being made here about a religious group enacting abuse of this particular nature on a woman on this level and it being called justified.
Cersei without argument deserves to be punished for all the horrible things she’s done, but the empowered faith militant is a criticism of religious institutions with too much power, and it makes SENSE that her actions led to this, but imo the fact that Cersei gave them this power doesn’t make what they do to her any less obscene. And I *do* think that this is going to be a factor to her self destruction, much like when Aerys was imprisoned - it’s *traumatizing.*
Think that the religious people chose that punishment for several reasons. It was besides a punishment obviously it was also a show of their power. And it was kind of a fitting punishment because she blamed margaery Tyrell who is completely innocent what do you considered incredibly disgusting sexual acts which ultimately would have led to the marjorie's death... All they did was strip Cersei of pride
@@soxpeewee it’s not a question of whether or not it’s narratively fitting - it absolutely is. As I said, Cersei has been asking to get back what she’s put out so far. But like I said, this *is still* sexual abuse by a religious institution - and as real life people reading a fictional work who had differences in the discussion, it is my stance that sexual abuse isn’t ’deserved’ in any circumstance, and reducing it to just a pride thing is a severe misunderstanding of the nature and purpose of what Cersei goes through.
Considering all the heinous and vile things Cersei has done, I have zero sympathy for her. She still got off with a relatively light punishment.
@@kaminsod4077good for you.
@@AuroraExhaleYeah good for him. Reciprocal justice. She deserves no sympathy. Is sexual humiliation bad? Yes. Is there a point being made in this scene about religious organizations and how they affect women? Yes. Does that mean Cersei didn't deserve this? No, absolutely not.
She's done worse things to people who deserved them far less than she does. She's also a crazy, narcissistic psychopath who groomed one of her brothers since they were children and wants to kill her other brother. She does not deserve yours or anyone else's sympathy.
there is a channel that does deep dives on psychology of characters in asoiaf called my little thought tree. very interesting stuff for the psych nerds out there
What did Nietzsche say? All good men are weak because they don’t have the strength to be evil?
Dang! Had a migraine yesterday and couldn't catch the live. I'll be listening at work today!
Amazing stream, hopefully we get to see more of Sean.
Welcome Sean? Shawn? Whatever either way good work
Thank you very much! It was a lot of fun!
I think a lot of Cersei's bad decisions are more the result of a lack of emotional intelligence rather than a lack of political or strategic intelligence which she seems to have a decent amount of. Her worst mistakes are all about trusting or mistrusting the wrong people.
Please cover the rap beef 🤣🤣
Omg 😂😂😂
Kendrick Lamar does remind me of a bard from ye ol' times, speaking truth to power poetically. Luckily Kendrick gets to keep his tongue in modern times lol
Haha, did you see Daniel Green did a quick one? 😂
This quote always gives me chills. It not only makes you understand Jaime's constant arrogance but also how disillusioned he is with the entirety of the KG in general.
Omg Sean's Jamie impersonation is absolutely perfectly impressive. He sounds just like him! The scene he and nettles did with Jamie imprisoned 😮. I would swear I was watching the show. They were both spot on! You're great too DL 😂
So good, I had to watch this again. We need more of this trio. We got such good analysis achieved, while having fun. 😁
Loving Nettles rn "Not Cersei! Cersei's stupid!" I concur, Girl Nettles. I concur!
Every stream gets better and better! Thanks for the content ❤
1:13:31 look at the chat!
it’s hilarious the chat has created a Jaime - Catelyn ship from this
Sean gave me chills with his dead on impersonation of Nikolaj.
@@alyssamitchell8191 me toooooo
It truly does. That was a turning point not only for his character but for the reader as well. The bland way he tells Catelyn about Rickard and Brandon's deaths is just utterly shocking to her. And she can't question any of it because of the way he tells the story.
poll time who had better hair nettles or sean? haha
yes
Nettles wins it for me because of those beautiful accessories. 👑
Sean ♥️
I'm all about that dulcet voice acting. With David in the background as a narrator and director, it's chef's 💋.
@@girlnettles It's not a competition! (but if it was you'd win)
lannister analysis is always a blast and this was no exception!!
i missed the stream i was most looking forward to :( superman has a great jaime voice.
I love Grey Waste Tim, and of course the Beautiful Girl Nettles, but when youre doing readings, Sean is the man! His voices are professional- level. Btw, youre not so bad yourself, David! I've been binging your theories again!
Yall need headphones. Your call keeps overriding each other. It definitely makes for a copped up discussion.
It’s not that bad lol
I think it's a cool contrast between Dany and Cersei that Dany understands the need to don the trappings of power -- her floppy ears. It took humiliation for Cersei to see that the queen everyone saw -- and a good portion of the beauty, too -- came from the gowns and jewels.
Cersei just thought she was inherently better than everyone else. When she understood how much that relied on gowns and jewels, she cling to those all the more.
Whereas Dany, whom some may declare to be the most beautiful woman in the world, does understand that she cannot sell her crown, that she must wear the toqar, that she must dress as a Dothraki and speak their language when with them. Dany also understands that a true ruler, queen, is a servant to the people. So although she understands the importance of the trappings of power and dressing for the role that she is playing, there is dignity and regality that belongs to her and not to gowns and jewels.
Tywin looks impressive but he is really incompetent. He has one move wipe them out all of them. He was losing a war to 14 year old green boy until he whipped out his signature move and killed then all at a wedding
You only need one move if it works
To be fair, that 14 year old boy had older and experianced men giving him advice.
But yeah, Tywin relies on him having the larger force, or doing some really inderhanded stuff. Wich, you can argue works, but remember, the Red Wedding is the reason why there is an open rabbit season on Freys, and Genna is a Frey.... Doung the dirty trick isn't allways as pragmatic as it seems.
I love these more free form streams where you all just spitball on on a given topic. I just wanted to say I don't think the Battle of The Red Fork is a motivating factor of the Red Wedding. I disagree because it's still a victory in the field for Tywin even if tactically it was a set up. It's pretty impressive victory as well when you consider he didn't even truly know who was commanding the opposing army and Roose hit them at night and his initial plans with the prepared for route being thwarted. Still, Tywin swept the field with minimal casualties and took important captives. Also Robb committed to the bit in a big way sending all his infantry in under Roose. So its not like the show where Robb pulls this off with 2000 men and somehow jets to Riverrun with most of his army. It was a clever and even desperate ploy that paid off but it's not really the humiliation of Tywin that its often made out to be.
I disagree, specifically because the chapter ends with Tyrion laughing at how Tywin has been made a fool of by the "green boy." Tywin was completely outwitted, and the strategy he tried to use against Robb was in fact used against him. it's very humiliating
@DavidLightbringer I would argue that Tyrion would find amusement in any instance of Tywin being thwarted and the fact that it happened at the hands of someone he underestimated probably made it hilarious. But my point is Tyrion as far as we know is the only one even tempted to laugh. No one else in story mentions this as a loss of face for Tywin. Jamie and Tyrion both make comments to female Starks afterwards to not get their hopes up even as Robb keeps winning specifically because he hasn't actually met Tywin in the field yet. So clearly, this incident didn't do too much to lower even Tyrion's estimation of his father. So if it didn't hurt his reputation (and based off the rest of the story it hasn't appeared too) why would it would be a motivating factor for the Red Wedding?
Bring Sean (trained) back again
Who dis that knows about Trained?
@@theHeroWithaThousandVoices a guildie
I never understood why tywin would allow tyrion to stand trial for jofferies murder...i understand their dynamics so please dont start there...im asking because it makes house lannister look week and allows the real family/ies to escape blame and plot more treachery...i know tywin knows tyrion didnt do it, but the damage to house lannister of allowing the guilty family to escape punishment is more harmful to the family than anything tyrion could have done
Very true
Screw Gerold Hightower loyal to a madman
Sean was great! Awesome stream as always Dave and Nettles
Loved this!!!! I hope you do similar vids for the greyjoys and starks ( LOTS of emotional trauma and issues to unpack there)
incredible stream thanks everyone!
Kudos to all of you, the voice acting is really good :O
Listened to this one twice. Really enjoyed it !!!
Gold is a very malleable metal! In connection with honor being iron, also gold with greed and greed being the root of all evil.
We all know nettles can act but sean was great too. Love how the tywin voice sounded like rogal dorn from tts
This was awesome, all of it. What a family. I wonder if Cat told Brienne about what Jamie did to Bran. She needs to know.
Bro, his tywin has POWER😮
Can nettles let catelyn have a little dignity? She plays her way too similar to lysa.
Sean should feel confident in his contributions. He's great! Always love Nettles, too.
Great stream! You three should do more psycho analysis style content for ASOIAF
This was a great video
Sean is fantastic at the accents. His Tywin was awesome in particular but all were incredible. Fair play man
Weirdly enough, I feel like another angle for Jaime's shame is his sword fighting prowess. He's referred to by several characters as the best swordsman and he certainly ranks himself highly, but I recall several moments where he also thinks back to others like Dayne and Selmy. Almost like he's embarrassed to think of himself as great compared to them -- he's just the only one who's left standing
Can you make a separate playlist for these kind of videos?
the styles alone were awesome 🦁🦸👑
Alluring the algorithm.
Sean made lol so much during the stream, loved him. great voice acting
GN did a great job as well omg you guys are ta len ted
i wonder how many lannisters have been kings guard before jaime… hmmmm.
Great video y’all voice acting was on point. Could prolly do 6 more Lannister streams make it an even 7
“Snow… such a white (wight) name. Like the pretty cloaks they gave us in the kings guard….”
Another of George’s more obvious parallels of the kings guard as tools of the king to the wights being used as tools of the Others, in addition to the Starks being compared to wights as you mentioned.