I think everyone who lived in that 20 years of peace and prosperity should have one two considering even Oberyn acknowledges how impressive Tywin was during these years.
Red Wedding is another example of Tywin's grudge/rage. He was losing the war to a green boy from his perspectives and had to do something horrific in order to maintain his image.
@@DiversDesign He explains to Arya that this is his final war and what he will be remembered for. I think he was emotional about it and felt it more than just business this time around.
@@DiversDesign It happened in an Arya chapter. Can’t remember if it was A Clash of Kings or Feast of Crows. Furthermore, all characters are on a spectrum. None of them are completely black or white, villain or hero. Even Cercei or Ramsey have their moments where they are just adapting to the pieces moving around them. Tywin is simply there to illustrate someone who does better than most in adapting. However, he does show his humanity and that he isn’t simply stone cold for the readers sake, yet appears that way because of what is occurring and to keep his family’s legacy in a favorable position.
@@DiversDesign I'm not sure what you're talking about? I never mentioned Arya or the show. Tywin is losing the war in the books and Robb is often characterized by the Lannister side as a green boy. Tywin is supposed to be a great commander and leader and he is losing face by losing the war. This exposes his deep seeded insecurities about the strength of his house so he over compensates with an act of horrific over the top violence to make it clear that the Lannister's (meaning Tywin himself) and by extension the Iron Throne is ruthless and not to be viewed as weak.
@@DiversDesign I think if someone is losing all the battles in a war, they are losing the war. He would have lost for sure if it wasn't for Edmure. Imo Tywin is very insecure and that's why he hides or over compensates for everything. It's very common for people who put on a hard exterior to have a lot of issues dealing with their emotions and insecurities. See Stannis for another easy example of this. He is just tempered with a sense of honor Tywin lacks.
I think you've commented before that houses with predatory animals on their sigil struggle with keeping their humanity and its been discussed how George always makes the sigils meaningful. There's a line during his vigil for Tywin where Jamie remarks that his father had been a lion and no one would deny that. It reminds of the propaganda around Richard The Lionheart. That sobriquet was first attached to Richard as a commentary on his brutality not his courage for his conquest and ransacking of Sicily enroute to the 3rd Crusade. Then there's even Tywin's pattern of infanticide. Male lions will kill cubs that aren't their's to protect their own from the potential competition and threat. Exactly what Tywin does to the other pride in the Reynes and the Targaryens. Tywin acts like a lion and that's actually horrible.
@@cherylbaxter8986 i have my complaints about this site, but one of the things I have a very positive attitude about is the notification system. It's nice being able to have it remind you 30 min beforehand so you can get ready. In this case I used the time to set up my laptop in a comfy spot
They both mean the same thing. Averys was definitely a sociopath, but he suffered from psychosis that was definitely mostly brought on after the PTSD in Duskindale. But yea like over half the kings were at least sociopaths.
I always took for granted that Joanna and Tywin had a happy marriage, but I can't imagine how Tywin could have managed his insecurity regarding Aerys molesting/seducing Joanna.
Ya I was surprised how much interesting context this adds to Tywin that I had never considered. Obviously doesn't excuse things but really adds some interesting layers.
Dang and thinking about it, they seem to have been friends on some level at the start and his friend becomes King and sleeps with/abuses his wife and he just has to grit his teeth and take it. Probably brought back a lot of the stuff with his dad and upbringing.
I dont believe it happened… hes was just handsy and leering with her thats it. Doesnt make sense he would rape her and he didnt want anyone to touch him…. Fandom be going crazy
@@Quirkus23 yeah i m guessing it probably made him feel "weak". He regarded his father as a weak man. It is notable that even though he knows that Aerys assaulted Joanna and passed insensitive comments when he died, he is still ready to cozy up to Aerys by giving his daughter in marriage to Rhaegar. It's hypocrisy that he won't stand disrespect from his vassals but he is willing to put up with Aerys' misconduct. Or maybe he wanted Aerys dead much earlier than Duskendale. Once Cersei married Rhaegar, Aerys could be disposed off.
Hi Dave. Long time fan here, but I'm not usually the one to comment. One thing that really stood out for me (and maybe for others, hearing your comments on the chat): who's behind Varys? Are we supposed to believe that King Aerys selected a random dude from across the World completely out of the blue? Look at the passage again (at 2:30:15): "He reached across the sea to Pentos and imported an eunuch named Varys to serve as his spy master, reasoning that *only a man without friends, family, or ties in Westeros could be relied upon for the truth*". How ironic would it be if Varys actually had friends, family, and ties in Westeros, and was feeding Aerys (and the Targaryen dynasty) lies all along. And we know that Varys is actively working to depose the Targaryens in favour of the Blackfiyes, working in tandem with Illyrio, a man married to (one of the) the last Blackfyre descendents. Also, George has showed extensively that even though rebellions and causes can be put down, the ties and believes of those who supported these causes are not completely extinguished. There were probably Blackfyre supportes living in the realm during this period, and one of them might be the one who suggested to Aerys to _reach out across the world to bring a random bloke_ to basically control all the information in the realm. TLDR: who suggested that Varys should be brought to Westeros? And, is Varys a Blackfyre? We know that he has purple eyes, which are basically a sign that at least he has Valyrian descent. Anyway, this might be a future line of research: did the coming Blackfyre rebellion and scheming start at this point, when they brought a mole to the realm in Varys? Also, shout-out for your speaking out on the genocide against Palestine, lately. Praise you for bringing awareness and not shying away at these difficult times. Cheers,
Another line of thought that jumped out is that all of Aerys actions, planning, and whims are based on the compound effect of his mental conditions and his prophetic dragon dreams. So, in ironic fashion, maybe Aerys dreamt of bringing Varys to fulfill some prophetic knowledge, but brought upon himself the destruction of his house. It would follow Marwyn's take on prophecy and other examples of it (Cersei, etc). Anyway, food for thought.
Get crackin folks… people round here are on the their 12th read thru. I’ve been listening the audiobooks for 4 years now basically without breaks 🤷🏽♂️ and honestly I’m still finding things I missed that are right there in the text… I been so busy reading between the lines that I have literally missed some of the lines… On my first listen I asked my wife if they ever figured out who killed Jon Arryn which is essentially the first mystery
1:40:40 Doesn't Tywin justify the Red Wedding to Tyrion at some point? Something along the lines of, "Is it better to kill 100 men at dinner or 1000s on the battlefield?" I think he says something like that. Could be useful info to answer this question. Unless I've completely misremembered the whole part. Lol
Liked what you said at the end about Aerys and Tywin as monsters one is just more visible. We can kinda see the parallel with the sack of Kings Landing. Aerys didn't get to burn and destroy the city, but Tywin sure did.
Tywin didn't destroy the city though he shook it up. It happened all the time in medivial warfare when a city (kingslanding) has been run by a monarch (Targaryens), you have to shake it up to prevent assassinations, riots and uprisings etc, there are literally smallfolk that miss Aerys rule there would probably reject Robert if Tywin hadn't done what he did. Remember the small folk of kingslanding killed the dragons,DRAGONS! that's how powerful they are
i stayed for the entire stream as i got our place ready and clean for the big Feast on Thursday. David is amazing at explaining how/when Aerys dove off the deep end. The ending of the Targaryen dynasty (probably from the tragedy at Summerhall to Jaime killing Aerys) has always fascinated me, considering how time is kept in Westeros is equivalent to how Western Civilization used to mark it with the arrival of Jesus. All that legacy just snuffed out with a kings guard sword. And Barry the Bold stays the GOAT 🐐 in ASOIAF.
@@ThommyofThennI only bought the World Of Ice an Fire couple of months ago then the Map's book ,Rise of the Dragon an just bought the Novel's but David's streams give us such great content I've learnt so much from all his content this is my happy place
Once upon a time I used to believe that Cersei and Jamie are Targs too, but u've shown me the light, David Lightbringer. I'll be indepted to u forever. All hail LML!
Aerys II Targaryen has a lot of parallels to King George III. Reminds me a bit of the film "The Madness of King George" which is adapted from a play that came out just before GRRM wrote Game of thrones
@@Devoted2Mariah it's not an exact one for one, but he is a king who deals with mental health problems aand ultimately loses his power during a reign full of conflict
I have the same condition that people think King George had and it actually would make a lot of sense for Aerys because not eating for long periods of time (such as being held captive) makes it much worse.
I got no love for Tywin, but I gotta defend my second favorite Lannister. Kevin is no more a lickspittle than Stannis. In a feudal house a younger brother's duty is to support his elder brother for the sake of their house if nothing else. If Kevin were a lickspittle he'd have accepted Cersi's offer to be Tommen's hand unconditionally just to please Cersi, his liege lady and Queen. Instead he proposed measures that would strengthen Tommen's reign even though he knew his proposal would displease Cersi, as it would limit her power. Kevin may have lived in Tywin's shadow but he was more than Tywin's henchmen. He was an intelligent, capable, insightful, and even compassionate general and statesman. Who probably would've been a better head of house Lannister than Tywin if he'd been the elder brother.
Unironically one of my favorite streams. Everything was wildfire.. the content, the chat, the comments, and Cleo. I really can’t wait for Jon ADWD. Any chapter will do, tbh. They’re some of my favorite in the entire series.
Listening all the way through again, without having fun in the chat, really drives home schizophrenia delusions of persecution and some ptsd. It only kept getting worse when some of his fears proved to not be unfounded. I think that just reinforced his more extreme delusion.
I don’t think anyone hit the nail with Tywin. He does not have any issues with psychosis. He takes Proud Lion to a whole new level. He was sickened by his father’s actions/inactions. When talking to Jaime he states there are only 2 ways to rule. With love, with fear. Fear is much more powerful. Not even loosely translated but that’s the gist. It’s was not terribly uncommon to end the line of a family. Aegon did so thrice in the conquest. Once being the swapping of Durrandun to Baratheon but still there are no Durranduns any longer. The Greyjoys rebelled multiple times and never were wiped but they were Lord Paramounts. Casterlys were just high lords. He needed to make a statement and put the thoughts of rebelling on the lannisters to rest because his soft father could not.
Tywins character and how he's perceived by the audience boils down to cold but phenomenal surgeon (Tywin), and good and warm terrible surgeon (Ned), who would you rather operate your dying mom. Tywin of cause he's the one fit for the job nomatter how you feel about him.
Defiance of Duskendale deffo has Tywin's fingerprints.... it's already been established that Tywin loves to have secret correspondence with dissatisfied lords looking to improve their situation. And knowing that Aerys hates him and looks for every opportunity to ignore and embarass him, telling Aerys "no your grace you MUST NOT go"...Aerys is gonna totally be like fuck you Tywin and do the opposite. I reckon Tywin expected Aerys to die Rhaeger to be king and pardons and hostages bla bla....they just didn't plan for Barristan the Badass 🤣
Tywin funded the tournament. The Maesters were so reluctant to say who could have funded, but maybe there was a puppet master--code for Tywin. The maesters also said it could have been Rhaeghar. That is the narrative Tywin was pushing. It serves his interests to have Aerys mistrust Rhaeghar. It could split them up further causing Rhaeghar to act, and Tywin could come back as hand. It could lead Aerys to reject Rhaeghar as heir, and move on with Visserys in which case **bethrowal opportunity ** for Cercei again. It's win win for Tywin and the obfuscation about the funder is perfect Maester's cover for Tywin. Besides did Rhaeghar have money??
no not yet, but we discussed him a lot in the recent Cersei reread chapter that we did as well as the villains tournament. We will do a dedicated Tywin stream though
Chat seemed to be having trouble understanding that they didn’t have cars and planes in Westeros. It can take months just to TRAVEL from one of these castles to the other. Our modern definitions of what is a “long time” is not going to be the same as a medieval outlook.
Great stream, Aerys is an interesting character for sure. A lot of what ifs. He was horrible towards the end no doubt. Guy needed Garth in his life Chat was lit tonight lol
Thank you so much for a great stream! Excited for the chart video to come out. I usually just listen to the videos while I’m working and don’t look at the beautiful art (I know, I know) but I’ll have to build some time into my schedule to watch the chart one. Everyone leave a comment to help David get to 100,000 subscribers!
I should probably save the Tywin commentary for his stream but I can’t help myself. Tywin is the embodiment of everything wrong with the patriarchal medieval society that our own modern society derives from. Specifically, he is based on King Edward I (Longshanks) of England. This was a man that in his time was heralded as the quintessential medieval ruler, strong and wise and brutal towards foes. Many of his “best traits” of course are toxic qualities that do well in a society that rewards cruelty and barbarity but don’t mesh with our modern society. One of the many problems with our European medieval society is because it was such a brutal time it often encourages brutal traits in people because these brutal people are the ones who got furthest in life back then. Just further commentary by George on the problems our modern society has inherited from our European medieval mindset.
Well I would think it obvious a ruler from hundreds of years ago wouldn't necessarily be a good ruler for the modern day. That's why I think when viewing historical figures it's imperative to view them with the lens of their time. Cultural norms, situations, mindsets, etc etc are going to be so different compared to modern day. But moving on are you sure that is only medieval? To my knowledge a patriarchal system has been around since Rome and even farther back than that. I would say that specific system didn't have its roots starting in medieval Europe but has been a long standing thing for thousands of years
@@MrFredstt medieval European society derived largely from patriarchal Roman society that was derived from earlier patriarchal societies., everything has an origin. Also, I mentioned that medieval rulers grew up in a brutal time that encouraged brutal traits which is me viewing them in their time and place. They were very formidable in their time with the skills that specific society valued. Different times value different traits in people is all I was trying to say.
@@garthgreenlung420 My bad. I agree and you're correct here. Rome was incredibly patriarchal even more so than any time after I would imagine. Women basically had nothing and owned nothing. Not even the right to their children after a divorce. Which, like you said itself derives from periods before them which probably gives an insight into how patriarchal pre-history was
The Harenhall tourney's mystery money man could have been Tywin. It also might have just been a tricksy trick, to make Aerys think that it was a plot so he'd show up and everyone would see how crazy he was (or do something equally unpopular).
Have you heard that GRRMs writing another ASOIAF history book? This one will be written from Pycelle's perspective, iirc it's title is Of Gold and Rock: Simping for Daddy Lannister UwU
Most of the characters that are A Bit Off™ in the series don’t strike me as feeling super diagnosable, but Aerys feels SO MUCH like bipolar trauma-triggered into BPD that it’s not even funny. 😂 Especially since hallucinations aren’t out of the realm of possibility for that, and… this dude is just a lot.
I do find it unlikely that the relationship, for lack of a better word, between Aerys and Joanna ever went far enough for a child to be a possibility, to put it delicately. While Pycelle cannot be trusted on most accounts, I do agree that if Aerys actually took things that far then there would have been no fence sitting for Tywin during Robert's Rebellion.
Great stream! Sad I missed the first half, but I guess I have something to catch up on later. Also looking forward to the next few weeks of theories, tinfoil, and Tim!
Morbidly amused by the image of a cartoon Aerys directing “Burn them! Burn them all!” to a pile of jewel-encrusted pacifiers and obnoxiously perfumed cloth-of-gold nappies.
Excellent as always. The thing for me about Tyrion Targ vs J/C Targ, is that Tyrion as a Targ could still have a really meaningful impact on the plot. It would make him Dany's half brother and give him access to Dragons potentially. Plus there is all the AA foreshadowing around Tyrion which could set up an interesting potential dynamic with Dany. (We could even think of the Bloodstone and Amethyst pairing as well) J/C wouldn't really add much aside from some parallel stuff that is there regardless. Maybe if Jamie or Cersei had one meaningful mention or instance of a dragon dream, but they don't and I just don't see it.
I think it would be very ironic and poetic if Tywin’s favorite children J/C the golden heirs of the Lannister family are not even Tywins children but the Mad kings, and Tyrion who Tywin views as a deformed monster whose birth was a punishment from the gods and took his beloved wife away is in fact Tywins only child
@@sean5558sure I can see that but how could it impact the story? It would be a fun tidbit for the reader but I don't see how this could affect Jamie or Cersei's plot. Tyrion however is on his way to Dany who has Dragons and is in search of family. Tyrion is seeking power to enact revenge. If he got his hands on a dragon there is no telling what could happen. It also feels way more set up for Tyrion. Neither Cersei nor Jamie have dragon dreams or any intrest in Dragons. They just do incest and Cersei seems unstable. For me the irony just isn't compelling enough when you look at the wider picture. Just my opinion of course.
@@Quirkus23 I know it’s not possible they would be Aerys children and it also wouldn’t affect the overall plot or steer it along for Jaime or Cersei even if they themselves learned the truth who they really were . But it would just be a great cosmic divinely ironic punishment for his arrogance and his comfort with committing genocide or another way for the gods to add insult to injury to Tywin on top of his humiliating death in the privy by his only true child.
@@AlohaMaesterHand Well if we just hand wave it away then anything can be true. I don't think George writes outright lies, it has the seeds of something true in it, otherwise why even waste the time and space putting it in your world book? Imo he uses the extra material to enhance the symbolism, parallels, and storytelling of the main series.
@@anorangetabby I think my longest was either a six or five hour one for a new video game, or a six hour Warhammer 40k stream. To be honest though I had to take breaks on each one! Huge admiration to the channels that can do streams like this and keep it entertaining and fun at the same time
Two theories on Planetos's irregular seasons, since it came up: 1. The disintegration of one of it's moons created an irregular dustcloud which blocks out the sun to varying degrees in complex ways. This wouldn't make the day length vary, but then the Maesters might only be _saying_ that's what they measure in order to conceal and protect the knowledge of what they're really looking at ("Knowledge is Power, Norman!" - British soap opera joke...) 2. The planet has a varying axial tilt, caused by irregular mass distribution within it. In this case the day length _would_ vary. Such things are possible: the real life Moon has an irregular gravity field, thought to be caused by mass concentrations ("MasCons") within it. Such a situation may have made the orbits of two moons around Planetos "interesting" and may even have contributed to the destruction of one of them (i.e. the "collider" was a third moon). The loss of a moon in formerly stable system would definitely have affected the tides and might have made the axial tilt situation worse. And, of course, it could be a combination of the two.
The youtube algorithm would properly dislike it, but one could make an entire stream about the parallels between Mad King Aerys and the Nazi High Command, about how paranoia mixed with power, thickened with conspiracy theories will bite your prick off every time Btw did you know Harrenhal is a reference to Herman Göring's summer estate 'Karrenhall'? Can't remember if you ever mentioned it 'Karrenhall' was (also) a gross opulent monument to hubris Keep up the damn fine work :) Skål
@@DavidLightbringer thank you! That's why it was so familiar, I've watched that movie tons of times. Although I should have my nerd card revoked for not being able to place it.
What happened to the last livestream ? I saw a minute of it in progress and then never saw it make it to the ‘live’ tab. Did something happen? Or am I just impatient??
I feel like I did an injustice to you and myself I'm just now really watching your channel and find myself watching your your old content I'm a big history guy and asoiaf books and show your great keep it up
Great stuff as always! I'm excited for the Tywin video -- I see why some people think he was a successful guy at first glance, but he's very clear about what his goals are. And even if we judge him solely by his own metric of the one thing he cares about (the enduring Lannister legacy), he's an utterly spectacular failure.
I'd like to think that if Rhaegar did have the meeting with all the lords at Harrenhall, Aerys would be like confused Travolta. "Where are these traitors? Why is there no one to burn?"
38:09 haha I was working on a research paper on a textbook and the kindle interface was so frustrating it has so much potential for research 😔 but it’s so damn annoying
I’ve always been curious why Aerys would trust Varys. Why would he trust a complete stranger that he had never met or spoken with prior to Varys coming to King’s Landing. I would think the paranoia would have been so great, he wouldn’t listen to anyone really.
You've done a man's job, sir! Thanks for keeping the fandom and discussion alive. My time zone is not very compatible with the live streaming but it's still a pleasure to watch these, even if I do feel left out 😞 Here's something I've noticed... Maybe Rhaegar was more his father's son than he seemed. The way he switched abruptly from the ploy back to the prophecy and Lyanna, is a little similar to how Aerys was switching from one grand idea to the next. It's like Rhaegar had that streak, only his case was much more tame, easier to miss, maybe? Another tidbit, I'm not sure how much attention I want to give to the false spring and the the winter backlash. Mostly due to my own country's climate and related culture. Our March is basically the false spring. When little (elementary school), we learned a short story about a shepherd that sheared his sheep in warm, sunny days of March, thinking it was time already. Then icy winds of winter returned and brought a snowstorm, and all of his sheep died. The conclusion given by the narrator was "neither praise nor badmouth the winter until March has passed". My grandmother, who was born in a small, somewhat secluded mountain village, used to say that March was winter just pretending to be spring, and the first two weeks of April were borrowed by March, so until April fifteenth it was false spring and only then the real spring began. Just saying, it doesn't have to be magical interference. Anyway, keep up the good work! One of these days you will plan a stream that I can actually be awake for 😁
Great stream. I sometimes listen to the Behind the Bastards podcast and of course couldn't help but imagine "BtB Westeros/Planetos" edition. GRRM created quite a few colorful and interesting bastards. Aerys and Tywin are such a remarkable duo in how they make each other worse.
Tywin lowering taxes and paying off the crown's debts with his own gold seems to me like Tywin was attempting to build a casus belli for House Lannister to declare war against House Targaryen if Tywin wanted to. And that tourney in honour of Prince Viserys' birth as you say was a display of Tywin's power. It was a veiled threat if Aerys chose not to pay his debt to Tywin by marrying Cersei to Rhaegar. I think Jaime being named to the Kingsguard and effectively becoming Aerys' hostage was the only thing that kept Tywin at bay all that time.
Its nuts that Aerys chooses throughout his reign has such lingering effects on the main story, when you pointed out its basically Aerys fault Roberts parents died, Robert becomes Lord of Storms End and in turn becomes he’s usurper, and also creating Patchface, and then house Hollard thats deep writing
3:35:12 I thought that perhaps Rhaegar heard about Southron Ambitions and a possible uprising against Targaryens and became concerned. Perhaps he took Lyanna like he did, thinking it would ruin the Baratheon/Stark bond (if it was assumed she ran off with him on purpose, making the Baratheons upset about a broken betrothal). That way he might be disrupting another part of these unions that were becoming a possible threat (the other having happened when Jaime wasn't able to marry Lysa anymore)
Tywin is interesting and I can see both sides but I just don't view a psychopath as being able to have a loving relationship like he did with Joanna and even though he is cruel to Tyrion I see a psychopath straight up just killing Tyrion and being absolutely horrific to his other children. I also don't view Tywin as being in the same vein in terms of behavior like other psychopaths of the story like Joffrey and Ramsay. And we also have to look at his time as hand. By all account he was fairly even tempered and alright both when he was Hand for Aerys and for Joffrey/Tommen. He also views Joffrey as a monster and doesn't put up with his shit and cautions Tommen to be a wiser king. Would a true psychopath ever even care about that? Tywin, imo, is capable of doing brutal deeds in what he views as pragmatic and efficient but not exactly a psychopath. Aerys on the other hand is clearly mentally unstable and has no remorse for really anyone at all. Also, just not to gloss over it, but all sympathies to Rhaella. She truly did not deserve the life she unfortunately had to live
Gotta hand one thing to Aerys. He was bats**t insane but he had to have been one hell of a horse rider to keep up with Barristan Selmy as the pair of them hauled ass across Duskendale to escape an entire army that must have been bearing down on them from every direction. Although I suppose it's possible they were on the same horse. But would they be fast enough to outrun pursuers if they were?
2:36:39 It just dawned on me that Aerys becomes obsessed with hatching dragons then goes to the Pyromancers I believe that he was burning these people in hopes to hatch the dragons not because he just wants to burn people I wonder if his eggs were on a brazer in the corner or something each time and no one knew. Or maybe he didn't realize they to needed to be in the flames which would make sense why he's excited he is thinking he might be on the cusp of hatching a dragon.
Pycelle definitely has a photo of Tywin riding a bear through a stream shirtless up on the wall in his room
Riding a lion ;*
I think everyone who lived in that 20 years of peace and prosperity should have one two considering even Oberyn acknowledges how impressive Tywin was during these years.
In retrospect, it's pretty insane Ned never told his kids anything about the tourney at Harrenhal. It's like... so important.
It's a pretty dad move though.
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Well Ned wasn't a gossip queen
Red Wedding is another example of Tywin's grudge/rage. He was losing the war to a green boy from his perspectives and had to do something horrific in order to maintain his image.
agree
@@DiversDesign
He explains to Arya that this is his final war and what he will be remembered for.
I think he was emotional about it and felt it more than just business this time around.
@@DiversDesign
It happened in an Arya chapter.
Can’t remember if it was A Clash of Kings or Feast of Crows.
Furthermore, all characters are on a spectrum.
None of them are completely black or white, villain or hero.
Even Cercei or Ramsey have their moments where they are just adapting to the pieces moving around them.
Tywin is simply there to illustrate someone who does better than most in adapting.
However, he does show his humanity and that he isn’t simply stone cold for the readers sake, yet appears that way because of what is occurring and to keep his family’s legacy in a favorable position.
@@DiversDesign I'm not sure what you're talking about? I never mentioned Arya or the show. Tywin is losing the war in the books and Robb is often characterized by the Lannister side as a green boy. Tywin is supposed to be a great commander and leader and he is losing face by losing the war. This exposes his deep seeded insecurities about the strength of his house so he over compensates with an act of horrific over the top violence to make it clear that the Lannister's (meaning Tywin himself) and by extension the Iron Throne is ruthless and not to be viewed as weak.
@@DiversDesign I think if someone is losing all the battles in a war, they are losing the war. He would have lost for sure if it wasn't for Edmure. Imo Tywin is very insecure and that's why he hides or over compensates for everything. It's very common for people who put on a hard exterior to have a lot of issues dealing with their emotions and insecurities. See Stannis for another easy example of this. He is just tempered with a sense of honor Tywin lacks.
I think you've commented before that houses with predatory animals on their sigil struggle with keeping their humanity and its been discussed how George always makes the sigils meaningful. There's a line during his vigil for Tywin where Jamie remarks that his father had been a lion and no one would deny that. It reminds of the propaganda around Richard The Lionheart. That sobriquet was first attached to Richard as a commentary on his brutality not his courage for his conquest and ransacking of Sicily enroute to the 3rd Crusade. Then there's even Tywin's pattern of infanticide. Male lions will kill cubs that aren't their's to protect their own from the potential competition and threat. Exactly what Tywin does to the other pride in the Reynes and the Targaryens. Tywin acts like a lion and that's actually horrible.
Tuned in just in time for the “alright guys!” Lol. Starting it over now.
Enjoy it!!! and clicc that bell for next time ;)
@@ThommyofThennI always click that Like Button as soon as I see the add on U Tube like a day before we get it 👍👍👍
@@cherylbaxter8986 i have my complaints about this site, but one of the things I have a very positive attitude about is the notification system. It's nice being able to have it remind you 30 min beforehand so you can get ready. In this case I used the time to set up my laptop in a comfy spot
@ThommyofThenn I think sometimes there is the case of people just working different shifts or having family to take care of.
"When he opened the door, the light from within threw his shadow clear across the yard, and for just a moment Tyrion Lannister stood tall as a king."
Great stream and great politics. I don’t know why “I don’t want innocent civilians to die regardless of where they live” has become such a hot take.
The Mad King and Tywin Lannister are two of a kind. Aerys is a psychopath and Tywin is a sociopath.
They both mean the same thing. Averys was definitely a sociopath, but he suffered from psychosis that was definitely mostly brought on after the PTSD in Duskindale. But yea like over half the kings were at least sociopaths.
I always took for granted that Joanna and Tywin had a happy marriage, but I can't imagine how Tywin could have managed his insecurity regarding Aerys molesting/seducing Joanna.
I'll try to address that in two weeks, great point
Ya I was surprised how much interesting context this adds to Tywin that I had never considered. Obviously doesn't excuse things but really adds some interesting layers.
Dang and thinking about it, they seem to have been friends on some level at the start and his friend becomes King and sleeps with/abuses his wife and he just has to grit his teeth and take it. Probably brought back a lot of the stuff with his dad and upbringing.
I dont believe it happened… hes was just handsy and leering with her thats it. Doesnt make sense he would rape her and he didnt want anyone to touch him…. Fandom be going crazy
@@Quirkus23 yeah i m guessing it probably made him feel "weak". He regarded his father as a weak man. It is notable that even though he knows that Aerys assaulted Joanna and passed insensitive comments when he died, he is still ready to cozy up to Aerys by giving his daughter in marriage to Rhaegar. It's hypocrisy that he won't stand disrespect from his vassals but he is willing to put up with Aerys' misconduct. Or maybe he wanted Aerys dead much earlier than Duskendale. Once Cersei married Rhaegar, Aerys could be disposed off.
Hi Dave. Long time fan here, but I'm not usually the one to comment.
One thing that really stood out for me (and maybe for others, hearing your comments on the chat): who's behind Varys? Are we supposed to believe that King Aerys selected a random dude from across the World completely out of the blue? Look at the passage again (at 2:30:15): "He reached across the sea to Pentos and imported an eunuch named Varys to serve as his spy master, reasoning that *only a man without friends, family, or ties in Westeros could be relied upon for the truth*". How ironic would it be if Varys actually had friends, family, and ties in Westeros, and was feeding Aerys (and the Targaryen dynasty) lies all along. And we know that Varys is actively working to depose the Targaryens in favour of the Blackfiyes, working in tandem with Illyrio, a man married to (one of the) the last Blackfyre descendents.
Also, George has showed extensively that even though rebellions and causes can be put down, the ties and believes of those who supported these causes are not completely extinguished. There were probably Blackfyre supportes living in the realm during this period, and one of them might be the one who suggested to Aerys to _reach out across the world to bring a random bloke_ to basically control all the information in the realm.
TLDR: who suggested that Varys should be brought to Westeros? And, is Varys a Blackfyre? We know that he has purple eyes, which are basically a sign that at least he has Valyrian descent.
Anyway, this might be a future line of research: did the coming Blackfyre rebellion and scheming start at this point, when they brought a mole to the realm in Varys?
Also, shout-out for your speaking out on the genocide against Palestine, lately. Praise you for bringing awareness and not shying away at these difficult times.
Cheers,
Another line of thought that jumped out is that all of Aerys actions, planning, and whims are based on the compound effect of his mental conditions and his prophetic dragon dreams. So, in ironic fashion, maybe Aerys dreamt of bringing Varys to fulfill some prophetic knowledge, but brought upon himself the destruction of his house. It would follow Marwyn's take on prophecy and other examples of it (Cersei, etc). Anyway, food for thought.
I used to sleep on *The World of Ice and Fire* too and now I'm on my second read. It's honestly amazing. George's brain is thing of beauty.
I'm on my first read.
Get crackin folks… people round here are on the their 12th read thru.
I’ve been listening the audiobooks for 4 years now basically without breaks 🤷🏽♂️ and honestly I’m still finding things I missed that are right there in the text… I been so busy reading between the lines that I have literally missed some of the lines…
On my first listen I asked my wife if they ever figured out who killed Jon Arryn which is essentially the first mystery
1:40:40 Doesn't Tywin justify the Red Wedding to Tyrion at some point? Something along the lines of, "Is it better to kill 100 men at dinner or 1000s on the battlefield?" I think he says something like that.
Could be useful info to answer this question. Unless I've completely misremembered the whole part. Lol
Yes he does
Love all the rereads! David Lightbringer brings the heat!
And so do you, babe. 💙💜
Liked what you said at the end about Aerys and Tywin as monsters one is just more visible. We can kinda see the parallel with the sack of Kings Landing. Aerys didn't get to burn and destroy the city, but Tywin sure did.
oh good point
Tywin didn't destroy the city though he shook it up. It happened all the time in medivial warfare when a city (kingslanding) has been run by a monarch (Targaryens), you have to shake it up to prevent assassinations, riots and uprisings etc, there are literally smallfolk that miss Aerys rule there would probably reject Robert if Tywin hadn't done what he did. Remember the small folk of kingslanding killed the dragons,DRAGONS! that's how powerful they are
Long Live Lord Lightbringer
And queen of chaos cleo and their leuitenant of loud, the glorious GOOSE, LOVE Y'ALL
I misread this as “live, laugh, lightbringer” 🤣
i stayed for the entire stream as i got our place ready and clean for the big Feast on Thursday. David is amazing at explaining how/when Aerys dove off the deep end. The ending of the Targaryen dynasty (probably from the tragedy at Summerhall to Jaime killing Aerys) has always fascinated me, considering how time is kept in Westeros is equivalent to how Western Civilization used to mark it with the arrival of Jesus. All that legacy just snuffed out with a kings guard sword.
And Barry the Bold stays the GOAT 🐐 in ASOIAF.
Jesus is our savior
I think the maesters are behind you not having 1M subs yet
I love that this stream was from The World of Ice and Fire! Great subject matter and discussion, as always.
I'm almost done with Fire and Blood. might have to check TWoIaF in large part because of streams like this showing me what it's like
It's worth it, Thommy! TWOIAF has the known history of Planets. So cool. 😎
@@ThommyofThennI only bought the World Of Ice an Fire couple of months ago then the Map's book ,Rise of the Dragon an just bought the Novel's but David's streams give us such great content I've learnt so much from all his content this is my happy place
I think Tywins love for Joanna was what kept Tyrion alive.
Once upon a time I used to believe that Cersei and Jamie are Targs too, but u've shown me the light, David Lightbringer. I'll be indepted to u forever. All hail LML!
Fantastic stream as usual. Based energy is off the scale! Thank you for your work.
Threatening to take down the bank then doing nothing and, I’m assuming, just paying off his debt like normal is iconic imo
hahaha
Aerys II Targaryen has a lot of parallels to King George III. Reminds me a bit of the film "The Madness of King George" which is adapted from a play that came out just before GRRM wrote Game of thrones
I need to check that out. I know a bit about him, but that sounds interesting af.
@@Devoted2Mariah it's not an exact one for one, but he is a king who deals with mental health problems aand ultimately loses his power during a reign full of conflict
I have the same condition that people think King George had and it actually would make a lot of sense for Aerys because not eating for long periods of time (such as being held captive) makes it much worse.
love that movie
Thanks for another great stream!
I got no love for Tywin, but I gotta defend my second favorite Lannister. Kevin is no more a lickspittle than Stannis. In a feudal house a younger brother's duty is to support his elder brother for the sake of their house if nothing else. If Kevin were a lickspittle he'd have accepted Cersi's offer to be Tommen's hand unconditionally just to please Cersi, his liege lady and Queen. Instead he proposed measures that would strengthen Tommen's reign even though he knew his proposal would displease Cersi, as it would limit her power. Kevin may have lived in Tywin's shadow but he was more than Tywin's henchmen. He was an intelligent, capable, insightful, and even compassionate general and statesman. Who probably would've been a better head of house Lannister than Tywin if he'd been the elder brother.
agree on most of that, he is competent and would likely have been a decent head of the house. better still if he hadn't grown up in tywin's shadow
I guess it's less that he's a lick spittle and more that he simply worships his older brother. Cersei doesn't get that same level of defference
Kevin is underratet
@@FlorianMark 💯
If you where a Westerlander you'd definitely love Tywin
Unironically one of my favorite streams. Everything was wildfire.. the content, the chat, the comments, and Cleo.
I really can’t wait for Jon ADWD. Any chapter will do, tbh. They’re some of my favorite in the entire series.
Jon’s chapters are my favorite part of Dance for sure
@@swaggerdagger5168 They’re so fucking good. Every single one is fire.
@@Devoted2Mariah he’s like a mini-Ned, I love it so much
@@swaggerdagger5168 Truly an ice dragon, and a king of winter in one. We love our Lord Commander!
@@Devoted2MariahDo you watch Lordanarts?
Listening all the way through again, without having fun in the chat, really drives home schizophrenia delusions of persecution and some ptsd. It only kept getting worse when some of his fears proved to not be unfounded. I think that just reinforced his more extreme delusion.
I don’t think anyone hit the nail with Tywin. He does not have any issues with psychosis. He takes Proud Lion to a whole new level. He was sickened by his father’s actions/inactions. When talking to Jaime he states there are only 2 ways to rule. With love, with fear. Fear is much more powerful. Not even loosely translated but that’s the gist.
It’s was not terribly uncommon to end the line of a family. Aegon did so thrice in the conquest. Once being the swapping of Durrandun to Baratheon but still there are no Durranduns any longer. The Greyjoys rebelled multiple times and never were wiped but they were Lord Paramounts. Casterlys were just high lords. He needed to make a statement and put the thoughts of rebelling on the lannisters to rest because his soft father could not.
Tywins character and how he's perceived by the audience boils down to cold but phenomenal surgeon (Tywin), and good and warm terrible surgeon (Ned), who would you rather operate your dying mom. Tywin of cause he's the one fit for the job nomatter how you feel about him.
Excellent stream!
Can’t wait for next week’s stream! 👍
awe I missed it.. I was with my son. He is doing much better now. And now I will watch
Defiance of Duskendale deffo has Tywin's fingerprints.... it's already been established that Tywin loves to have secret correspondence with dissatisfied lords looking to improve their situation.
And knowing that Aerys hates him and looks for every opportunity to ignore and embarass him, telling Aerys "no your grace you MUST NOT go"...Aerys is gonna totally be like fuck you Tywin and do the opposite.
I reckon Tywin expected Aerys to die Rhaeger to be king and pardons and hostages bla bla....they just didn't plan for Barristan the Badass 🤣
Glad I was able to catch the live tonight! Great work as always! 🔥🖤
Tywin funded the tournament. The Maesters were so reluctant to say who could have funded, but maybe there was a puppet master--code for Tywin. The maesters also said it could have been Rhaeghar. That is the narrative Tywin was pushing. It serves his interests to have Aerys mistrust Rhaeghar. It could split them up further causing Rhaeghar to act, and Tywin could come back as hand. It could lead Aerys to reject Rhaeghar as heir, and move on with Visserys in which case **bethrowal opportunity ** for Cercei again. It's win win for Tywin and the obfuscation about the funder is perfect Maester's cover for Tywin. Besides did Rhaeghar have money??
you're right I should have seen that. The way the narrative protects Tywin and casts blame on others is consistent. good call
@@DavidLightbringer you did great highlighting that-- loved the stream as always
I totally read it to mean Tywin funded it, seems so clear to me but looking around online it looks like most folks don’t see it that way.
did the tywin episode come out because i cant find it if it did.
no not yet, but we discussed him a lot in the recent Cersei reread chapter that we did as well as the villains tournament. We will do a dedicated Tywin stream though
Chat seemed to be having trouble understanding that they didn’t have cars and planes in Westeros. It can take months just to TRAVEL from one of these castles to the other. Our modern definitions of what is a “long time” is not going to be the same as a medieval outlook.
exactly, well said
Exceptional work as always - just joined, thanks for having me.
Great stream, Aerys is an interesting character for sure. A lot of what ifs. He was horrible towards the end no doubt. Guy needed Garth in his life
Chat was lit tonight lol
Thank you so much for a great stream! Excited for the chart video to come out. I usually just listen to the videos while I’m working and don’t look at the beautiful art (I know, I know) but I’ll have to build some time into my schedule to watch the chart one. Everyone leave a comment to help David get to 100,000 subscribers!
Dave I really love these videos. I listen to them all the time while working, keep up the great work!
Cleo is anti~facist, you raised a good birb. Great reread many thanks.
tears in my eyes reading this. very true
I should probably save the Tywin commentary for his stream but I can’t help myself. Tywin is the embodiment of everything wrong with the patriarchal medieval society that our own modern society derives from. Specifically, he is based on King Edward I (Longshanks) of England. This was a man that in his time was heralded as the quintessential medieval ruler, strong and wise and brutal towards foes. Many of his “best traits” of course are toxic qualities that do well in a society that rewards cruelty and barbarity but don’t mesh with our modern society. One of the many problems with our European medieval society is because it was such a brutal time it often encourages brutal traits in people because these brutal people are the ones who got furthest in life back then. Just further commentary by George on the problems our modern society has inherited from our European medieval mindset.
well said thanks for your comments!
Well I would think it obvious a ruler from hundreds of years ago wouldn't necessarily be a good ruler for the modern day. That's why I think when viewing historical figures it's imperative to view them with the lens of their time. Cultural norms, situations, mindsets, etc etc are going to be so different compared to modern day. But moving on are you sure that is only medieval? To my knowledge a patriarchal system has been around since Rome and even farther back than that. I would say that specific system didn't have its roots starting in medieval Europe but has been a long standing thing for thousands of years
@@MrFredstt medieval European society derived largely from patriarchal Roman society that was derived from earlier patriarchal societies., everything has an origin. Also, I mentioned that medieval rulers grew up in a brutal time that encouraged brutal traits which is me viewing them in their time and place. They were very formidable in their time with the skills that specific society valued. Different times value different traits in people is all I was trying to say.
People like Elon and Adrew are still that way
@@garthgreenlung420 My bad. I agree and you're correct here. Rome was incredibly patriarchal even more so than any time after I would imagine. Women basically had nothing and owned nothing. Not even the right to their children after a divorce. Which, like you said itself derives from periods before them which probably gives an insight into how patriarchal pre-history was
Great work David. Thank you.
The Harenhall tourney's mystery money man could have been Tywin.
It also might have just been a tricksy trick, to make Aerys think that it was a plot so he'd show up and everyone would see how crazy he was (or do something equally unpopular).
That's a fantastic point! It's also very believable imo.
Another banger stream..gotta respect the lightbringer, let's get this man to 200k subs people!
Have you heard that GRRMs writing another ASOIAF history book? This one will be written from Pycelle's perspective, iirc it's title is Of Gold and Rock: Simping for Daddy Lannister UwU
🤣🤣🤣
Most of the characters that are A Bit Off™ in the series don’t strike me as feeling super diagnosable, but Aerys feels SO MUCH like bipolar trauma-triggered into BPD that it’s not even funny. 😂 Especially since hallucinations aren’t out of the realm of possibility for that, and… this dude is just a lot.
I do find it unlikely that the relationship, for lack of a better word, between Aerys and Joanna ever went far enough for a child to be a possibility, to put it delicately. While Pycelle cannot be trusted on most accounts, I do agree that if Aerys actually took things that far then there would have been no fence sitting for Tywin during Robert's Rebellion.
Great stream! Sad I missed the first half, but I guess I have something to catch up on later. Also looking forward to the next few weeks of theories, tinfoil, and Tim!
Well done on encouraging thoughtful and friendly interaction in your own little kingdom-channel ⭐
Thank you sir for giving us GoT juice in the off season 🙏
Morbidly amused by the image of a cartoon Aerys directing “Burn them! Burn them all!” to a pile of jewel-encrusted pacifiers and obnoxiously perfumed cloth-of-gold nappies.
1:47:18 Tbf all the piousness probably got extinguished when Maegor tried to marry his third wife and killed all of the priests who refused lmao
Excellent as always. The thing for me about Tyrion Targ vs J/C Targ, is that Tyrion as a Targ could still have a really meaningful impact on the plot. It would make him Dany's half brother and give him access to Dragons potentially. Plus there is all the AA foreshadowing around Tyrion which could set up an interesting potential dynamic with Dany. (We could even think of the Bloodstone and Amethyst pairing as well)
J/C wouldn't really add much aside from some parallel stuff that is there regardless. Maybe if Jamie or Cersei had one meaningful mention or instance of a dragon dream, but they don't and I just don't see it.
I think it would be very ironic and poetic if Tywin’s favorite children J/C the golden heirs of the Lannister family are not even Tywins children but the Mad kings, and Tyrion who Tywin views as a deformed monster whose birth was a punishment from the gods and took his beloved wife away is in fact Tywins only child
@@sean5558sure I can see that but how could it impact the story? It would be a fun tidbit for the reader but I don't see how this could affect Jamie or Cersei's plot. Tyrion however is on his way to Dany who has Dragons and is in search of family. Tyrion is seeking power to enact revenge. If he got his hands on a dragon there is no telling what could happen. It also feels way more set up for Tyrion. Neither Cersei nor Jamie have dragon dreams or any intrest in Dragons. They just do incest and Cersei seems unstable.
For me the irony just isn't compelling enough when you look at the wider picture. Just my opinion of course.
@@Quirkus23 I know it’s not possible they would be Aerys children and it also wouldn’t affect the overall plot or steer it along for Jaime or Cersei even if they themselves learned the truth who they really were . But it would just be a great cosmic divinely ironic punishment for his arrogance and his comfort with committing genocide or another way for the gods to add insult to injury to Tywin on top of his humiliating death in the privy by his only true child.
In re: Jaime and Cersei Targaryen . . .
I don't trust Pycelle's timeline any more than anything else he ever said about Tywin.
@@AlohaMaesterHand Well if we just hand wave it away then anything can be true. I don't think George writes outright lies, it has the seeds of something true in it, otherwise why even waste the time and space putting it in your world book? Imo he uses the extra material to enhance the symbolism, parallels, and storytelling of the main series.
I really enjoyed today’s stream. We have such a good community here 💜💜💜
We love you around here! 💜🐉
dang we did 3:38:49 that is pretty epic.
Time flies when you’re having fun! That’s every Sunday here. 💕👏🏼
Time flies when you’re having fun! That’s every Sunday here. 💕👏🏼
Thommy have you ever been to a six hour stream?
@@Devoted2Mariah so true 🤓🐙
@@anorangetabby I think my longest was either a six or five hour one for a new video game, or a six hour Warhammer 40k stream. To be honest though I had to take breaks on each one! Huge admiration to the channels that can do streams like this and keep it entertaining and fun at the same time
An "assignation" is an appointment for two lovers to meet in secret. Romantic word for a booty call, basically.
Incredible analysis my man. You are spot on, always!
Excited to watch this one! 🎉
Excited for the next few weeks, especially big bobby's rebellion. ITS HAMMER TIME BABEEYYYYY 🔨🐲
Great stream. Hope the special guest is IDG you two are the best in this amazing world
There is no absolute reality. "I know nothing."
-Socrates (a famous historical dude)
Great video
Nicely done
Sociopaths are made and psychopaths are born that way.
Two theories on Planetos's irregular seasons, since it came up:
1. The disintegration of one of it's moons created an irregular dustcloud which blocks out the sun to varying degrees in complex ways. This wouldn't make the day length vary, but then the Maesters might only be _saying_ that's what they measure in order to conceal and protect the knowledge of what they're really looking at ("Knowledge is Power, Norman!" - British soap opera joke...)
2. The planet has a varying axial tilt, caused by irregular mass distribution within it. In this case the day length _would_ vary. Such things are possible: the real life Moon has an irregular gravity field, thought to be caused by mass concentrations ("MasCons") within it. Such a situation may have made the orbits of two moons around Planetos "interesting" and may even have contributed to the destruction of one of them (i.e. the "collider" was a third moon). The loss of a moon in formerly stable system would definitely have affected the tides and might have made the axial tilt situation worse.
And, of course, it could be a combination of the two.
appreciate the comments
Great ideas but I think even George dosen't know it yet
The youtube algorithm would properly dislike it, but one could make an entire stream about the parallels between Mad King Aerys and the Nazi High Command, about how paranoia mixed with power, thickened with conspiracy theories will bite your prick off every time
Btw did you know Harrenhal is a reference to Herman Göring's summer estate 'Karrenhall'? Can't remember if you ever mentioned it
'Karrenhall' was (also) a gross opulent monument to hubris
Keep up the damn fine work :)
Skål
I love your videos and 90s references. What was the intro song you used up until a year ago? I know I've seen the movie but I just can't place it.
it was from Monty Python and the Holy Grail
@@DavidLightbringer thank you! That's why it was so familiar, I've watched that movie tons of times. Although I should have my nerd card revoked for not being able to place it.
What happened to the last livestream ? I saw a minute of it in progress and then never saw it make it to the ‘live’ tab. Did something happen? Or am I just impatient??
I had to take it down for reposting because UA-cam hit it with a demonetization strike. First part will be out tomorrow morning
Another fantastic stream!!
The saying is "absolute power corrupts absolutely"
I feel like I did an injustice to you and myself I'm just now really watching your channel and find myself watching your your old content I'm a big history guy and asoiaf books and show your great keep it up
Great stuff as always! I'm excited for the Tywin video -- I see why some people think he was a successful guy at first glance, but he's very clear about what his goals are. And even if we judge him solely by his own metric of the one thing he cares about (the enduring Lannister legacy), he's an utterly spectacular failure.
Re: Rhaegar and why he didn't talk to the Starks... I hate to be reductive but Rhaegar just doesn't make much sense.
there are def some big questions remaining
I'd like to think that if Rhaegar did have the meeting with all the lords at Harrenhall, Aerys would be like confused Travolta. "Where are these traitors? Why is there no one to burn?"
38:09 haha I was working on a research paper on a textbook and the kindle interface was so frustrating it has so much potential for research 😔 but it’s so damn annoying
1:50 time stamp
Bombing for Peace is the Rains of Castamere IRL but lacking in effectivity
I’ve always been curious why Aerys would trust Varys. Why would he trust a complete stranger that he had never met or spoken with prior to Varys coming to King’s Landing. I would think the paranoia would have been so great, he wouldn’t listen to anyone really.
Varys-in-disguise probably told Aerys about Varys haha
@@DavidLightbringer gonna try this at my next job interview
great stream
yo david do you think its possible that the evolution of theons character into reek may be inspired by smeagle's gradual transformation into gollum?
You've done a man's job, sir! Thanks for keeping the fandom and discussion alive. My time zone is not very compatible with the live streaming but it's still a pleasure to watch these, even if I do feel left out 😞
Here's something I've noticed... Maybe Rhaegar was more his father's son than he seemed. The way he switched abruptly from the ploy back to the prophecy and Lyanna, is a little similar to how Aerys was switching from one grand idea to the next. It's like Rhaegar had that streak, only his case was much more tame, easier to miss, maybe?
Another tidbit, I'm not sure how much attention I want to give to the false spring and the the winter backlash. Mostly due to my own country's climate and related culture. Our March is basically the false spring. When little (elementary school), we learned a short story about a shepherd that sheared his sheep in warm, sunny days of March, thinking it was time already. Then icy winds of winter returned and brought a snowstorm, and all of his sheep died. The conclusion given by the narrator was "neither praise nor badmouth the winter until March has passed". My grandmother, who was born in a small, somewhat secluded mountain village, used to say that March was winter just pretending to be spring, and the first two weeks of April were borrowed by March, so until April fifteenth it was false spring and only then the real spring began.
Just saying, it doesn't have to be magical interference.
Anyway, keep up the good work! One of these days you will plan a stream that I can actually be awake for 😁
The false spring you mentioned is incredible. Where are you from?
@@MissSeraphine I'm glad you found it interesting. Georgia 🇬🇪 - the south-eastern border of Europe.
@@MissSeraphineTo be fair we seem to get it here in the Inland (not coastal) climate in the western US, also it's somewhat higher elevation too.
I watch these vids in chunks and everytime I watch I want to give a like again, so heres some comment engagement my brudder
Great stream. I sometimes listen to the Behind the Bastards podcast and of course couldn't help but imagine "BtB Westeros/Planetos" edition. GRRM created quite a few colorful and interesting bastards. Aerys and Tywin are such a remarkable duo in how they make each other worse.
Tywin lowering taxes and paying off the crown's debts with his own gold seems to me like Tywin was attempting to build a casus belli for House Lannister to declare war against House Targaryen if Tywin wanted to. And that tourney in honour of Prince Viserys' birth as you say was a display of Tywin's power. It was a veiled threat if Aerys chose not to pay his debt to Tywin by marrying Cersei to Rhaegar.
I think Jaime being named to the Kingsguard and effectively becoming Aerys' hostage was the only thing that kept Tywin at bay all that time.
Its nuts that Aerys chooses throughout his reign has such lingering effects on the main story, when you pointed out its basically Aerys fault Roberts parents died, Robert becomes Lord of Storms End and in turn becomes he’s usurper, and also creating Patchface, and then house Hollard thats deep writing
Dontos hollard being a drunk is very tragic when you get the full story
Can't blame him after you know the full story.
1:25:45 "I dont mind baking breaddd" by Hotpie please and thank you
edit: ok alright i guess sheepstealer is ok too xD
hahaha nice
1000% with you on real life whitewashing and propaganda! Glad to see you're aware of such things!
of course friend Lucas
3:35:12 I thought that perhaps Rhaegar heard about Southron Ambitions and a possible uprising against Targaryens and became concerned. Perhaps he took Lyanna like he did, thinking it would ruin the Baratheon/Stark bond (if it was assumed she ran off with him on purpose, making the Baratheons upset about a broken betrothal). That way he might be disrupting another part of these unions that were becoming a possible threat (the other having happened when Jaime wasn't able to marry Lysa anymore)
Did the audio get dropped somehow? I don't hear anything at any point of the stream, but other videos come in fine. 😢
I want to hear about aerys
Stealing bread is a reference to sleeping with another man's wife from The book of Proverbs
LML is undoubtedly the best ASOIAF content creator on UA-cam.
Tywin is interesting and I can see both sides but I just don't view a psychopath as being able to have a loving relationship like he did with Joanna and even though he is cruel to Tyrion I see a psychopath straight up just killing Tyrion and being absolutely horrific to his other children. I also don't view Tywin as being in the same vein in terms of behavior like other psychopaths of the story like Joffrey and Ramsay. And we also have to look at his time as hand. By all account he was fairly even tempered and alright both when he was Hand for Aerys and for Joffrey/Tommen. He also views Joffrey as a monster and doesn't put up with his shit and cautions Tommen to be a wiser king. Would a true psychopath ever even care about that? Tywin, imo, is capable of doing brutal deeds in what he views as pragmatic and efficient but not exactly a psychopath. Aerys on the other hand is clearly mentally unstable and has no remorse for really anyone at all. Also, just not to gloss over it, but all sympathies to Rhaella. She truly did not deserve the life she unfortunately had to live
we didn't even talk about Tysha
I mean I hear you? but that Tysha thing is bizarrely cruel
@@DavidLightbringer Ohhh, yes, that does throw a wrench into things. I had forgotten about Tysha. Shame on me for that actually.
And sleeping with Shae.
@@DavidLightbringerNeds Starks honor caused the Jeyne Poole situation indirectly.
Tywin is calculated... PERIOD
Gotta hand one thing to Aerys. He was bats**t insane but he had to have been one hell of a horse rider to keep up with Barristan Selmy as the pair of them hauled ass across Duskendale to escape an entire army that must have been bearing down on them from every direction. Although I suppose it's possible they were on the same horse. But would they be fast enough to outrun pursuers if they were?
Replay crew
We appreciate you!
As distasteful as her end was the torture of the darklyns wife might suggest the mad king was a victim of grape and that was his response to that.
certainly possible
Would also explain the no touching thibi
@@DavidLightbringer thing*
2:36:39
It just dawned on me that Aerys becomes obsessed with hatching dragons then goes to the Pyromancers I believe that he was burning these people in hopes to hatch the dragons not because he just wants to burn people I wonder if his eggs were on a brazer in the corner or something each time and no one knew. Or maybe he didn't realize they to needed to be in the flames which would make sense why he's excited he is thinking he might be on the cusp of hatching a dragon.
I think Jaime's memory of Aerys burning Rickard and Brandon disproves that idea
I think his burn them all was actually profectic about danny