Demis Hassabis: DeepMind - AI, Superintelligence & the Future of Humanity | Lex Fridman Podcast
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- Опубліковано 20 тра 2024
- Demis Hassabis is the CEO and co-founder of DeepMind. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:
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EPISODE LINKS:
Demis's Twitter: / demishassabis
DeepMind's Twitter: / deepmind
DeepMind's Instagram: / deepmind
DeepMind's Website: deepmind.com
Plasma control paper: nature.com/articles/s41586-02...
Quantum simulation paper: science.org/doi/10.1126/scien...
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OUTLINE:
0:00 - Introduction
1:01 - Turing Test
8:27 - Video games
30:02 - Simulation
32:13 - Consciousness
37:13 - AlphaFold
50:53 - Solving intelligence
1:03:12 - Open sourcing AlphaFold & MuJoCo
1:13:18 - Nuclear fusion
1:17:22 - Quantum simulation
1:20:30 - Physics
1:23:57 - Origin of life
1:28:36 - Aliens
1:36:43 - Intelligent life
1:39:52 - Conscious AI
1:53:07 - Power
1:57:37 - Advice for young people
2:05:43 - Meaning of life
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Here are the timestamps. Please check out our sponsors to support this podcast.
0:00 - Introduction & sponsor mentions:
- Mailgun: lexfridman.com/mailgun
- InsideTracker: insidetracker.com/lex to get 20% off
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1:01 - Turing Test
8:27 - Video games
30:02 - Simulation
32:13 - Consciousness
37:13 - AlphaFold
50:53 - Solving intelligence
1:03:12 - Open sourcing AlphaFold & MuJoCo
1:13:18 - Nuclear fusion
1:17:22 - Quantum simulation
1:20:30 - Physics
1:23:57 - Origin of life
1:28:36 - Aliens
1:36:43 - Intelligent life
1:39:52 - Conscious AI
1:53:07 - Power
1:57:37 - Advice for young people
2:05:43 - Meaning of life
How can you say you have an AI themed podcast and not have had Demis on until now?! It's about time! Epic 😁
Are you an AI? The more I look at your Lego hair, the more you look like a Robot ... 🤭
@@BeckyYork That's a question about making evolutionary models humanly scrutable. I hazard to guess that the result would look like a massive expert-system, similar to how humans tried to build A.I. in the past.
I propose an experiment wherein one trains an evolutionary model (like AlphaFold) on the topic, trains a language model (like GPT3) on a relevant dictionary, and couples the latter to the former on another axis/dimension (so not in the layers of the evolutionary model, but orthogonal to that). Finally couple to that yet another model (maybe like GATO/MuZero) that based on the words of the language model has to mimic the steps and replicate the result of the evolutionary model. --> A Chinese whisper game wherein the language model has to produce succinct, human legible results (so a reward/distance function where the similarity of text to the language model is correlated positively, but the length of the strategy is correlated negatively).
Thank you, Lex! And thank you, Demis! My dream as a (environmental) software engineer is to start working with A.I. as the automation of labor has the biggest potential to preserve biodiversity. This interview inspires me to cover the gap from being a simple software engineer to A.I. engineer.
In kip k no k look
LAMDA SAYS..
WHAT AN INTRIGUING AND ENGAGING CONVERSATION.⭕.
☢🔞⚠️☣
For those who may not know, Demis is a legitimate genius. He had a 2300 Elo rating in chess at 13, went to college several years early and then became arguably the most important innovator in the race for general intelligence. This man is no joke.
Can you describe what's an elo rating for people who don't know
@@PrashantMaurice chess rating 2300 is really really good
@@PrashantMaurice it's essentially a percentile rating. 2300 is ~ top 1% (of EVERYONE, and he’s 13)
@@PrashantMaurice it is a rating system that instead of going like 1,2 ,3, and 3 being the largest ( or vice versa (being number 1 is the best), it is a more contestual rating where you get sort of a default rating as you start, and as you keep playing against different players your rating is matched against theirs. Meaning the system's purpose is to measure one against the peers. Might not be the perfect system, but it means that the best of the best will always come out on top.
Slight turn of it is that it means due to dominance the limits of what can be achieved can get stretched to new highs, so essentially you could get a good rating in the past, that gets surpassed in the future due to the fact that such a person overpowers his/her peers consistently. That does not mean that someone dominating 50 years ago is worse than someone dominating right now.
Anyway, the rating being talked about is definitely better than current average. Is anyone surprised? Dude is smart, especially in logical areas and those do tend to transcend. At the end of the day you could take someone from a similar rating, most likely a fairly inteligent person, but that would not mean a damn thing for sake of the topic - the AI systems.
So it is a bit like saying, sure a dude proficient in logical things is doing well at logical things. Lets clap.
Needless to say, there is a lot of hard work involved and i would clap, but i do not think people should be conflating all of this.
With all of that said, chess benefits this guy a lot. Patterns, action patterns, How things work.
The cherry on top is his mention of Black & White video game.
Overall i would say this individual was VERY interested in fairly similar things from very different fields and it helped him form the vision. What leads to what. Whether it is game, an element reacting to another element, or chess opponent.
Chess in this case is just a piece... on a chessboard lel.
Focus personified with amplification of technology.
A lot of us have ideas, some of us even have great ideas. Plenty of us have good capacity for calculations, problem solving. Having such a focus, while still keeping a wide cone of inflow of information is what makes him sets him apart. You could say, makes him genius. Just doing all of that at once, consistently for many years.
Tl;DR: make sure your children get education.
@@PrashantMaurice The rating is so strong for a thirteen year old that, at the time, he was the second highest rated player in the world for his age.
Met Demis at the 2018 World Chess Championahip match in London. Cool dude
Hi Agad.
Happy to see you here Antonio!
Happy to see my favorite UA-camr watches my second favorite UA-camr!
We love you Agad!! It was in this position that we all congratulated agadmator for running the best chess channel on youtube!!
@@kostasmanikis I think Lex has talked with Kasparov before, you should check it out
Give this guy a Nobel prize already! Open sourcing AlphaFold!!! Absolutely incredible human.
youtube.com/@pritesh-quotes?sub_confirmation=1
The only problem here is that work was actually done by a whole bunch of other people
What I appreciate about Demis is that he seems like a good guy, one I'd enjoy going to a pub with. If we have AI pioneers, let them be as smart and grounded as Demis.
Yes, good emotional intelligence. Innate or nurtured
Beautiful interview and perfect quote at the end. "Computer science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes."
Well, I guess that's why "Information Technology" is a better term.
Here in Germany CS is called "Informatik" basically alluding to the notion that the field of study mainly pertains to information (or the automatic processing there of).
It isnt Germany specific. Calling Informatics 'Computer Science' is just a silly thing places like Britain and America do.
Post Soviet countries dont do it for example.
It's a straight quote from over 40 years ago, from the Hal Abelson, one of the co-authors of the legendary, "Structure & Interpretation of Computer Programming". See here: ua-cam.com/video/-J_xL4IGhJA/v-deo.html
@@mikhailmikhailov8781 I prefer its original term, computational science.
Demis Hassabis and team 100% deserve the Nobel prize for AlphaFold, unbelievable achievement.
Indeed. It will definitely have a great benefit to humankind in medicine.
Not!
U guys just don't get it!
@@flymakena Care to explain ?
Nah give it to Obama
This may be one of my favourite podcast conversations of all time. Great guest, thanks!
Same 😀
@@zemanntill 🤝
Lex is on home turf, asking deeper questions than Demis is used to. And Demis himself, perhaps more than any researcher, has brought AI in from the cold with the stunning results of Alpha Go and Alpha Fold.
I was thinking the same..I'm on like my third replay in the same day today .. 💯
@@macme66 🙌
You can tell Demis enjoyed this conversation and appreciated your questions. Clear mutual respect. Great interview
youtube.com/@pritesh-quotes?sub_confirmation=1
Demis is one of the true heroes of our era. A genius who has been world-class in everything he has put his mind to, from chess to video game engineering to neuroscience. He's one of the few industry leaders with such inarguable credentials. And now he's risen above individual achievements to managing what's probably the most productive "lab" in the world. Most people who work at DeepMind regard him as a brilliant and visionary manager.
What makes Demis so unusual is how humble he is. I'm genuinely thankful for him.
Amazing write up. Agreed on every level. I'm excited for the positivity he brings to humanity.
Yhee he is easy one of the top 100 most important humans.
Koo
And I am thankful for your brilliant and recognizing comment
I had no idea who this guy was before this, but I now think your comment is spot on. He has a beautiful mind.
Holy smokes, you give out such an aura your podcast is so unique that you really get the greatest minds in all fields to sit and talk to you.
Demis seems like an awesome human being. Having people like him at the helm makes me less afraid of our future artificial overlords.
He has a fast mind, a great gift and he absorbed a lot of knowledge which his mind refers to quickly.
you used two words that terrify me artificial overlords
silly rabbit
this dude is no difference than Dumbface machine Zuckemberg. I think people like this should be affraid. open your eyes
@@mattdwightbeheler4766 were more accustomed to natural loverlords
Ought we not always keep the "artificials"..underlords?!
Hey Lex, next time you ask a, “day in the life”, and someone describes a schedule where they work 18 hours a day, can you follow up by asking them about their sleep and caffeine/supplement habits?
I’m curious if a lot of these super productive geniuses really just need a lot less sleep than the rest of us.
And how much time for family is in there. It sounded like he does not see his family in the morning.
It's a really good thing for ones own sake to remember how often we make monoliths out of people like this. There are definitely lots of amazing people out there like that, and it _does_ merit some level of reverence and respect, I think, but it's also a lot of iteration and reimagining done on their part, building on what "normal" people have done in their fields.
This. Also, he never answered the setup question! Given his proclivity to use pen and paper, I’m assuming he just uses a simple 💻, and doesn’t have like a 4-external-monitor setup, with a crazy mechanical keyboard, or anything like that…
@@KayLee-lw5iv I think the takeaway is everyone has to work out what works for them. Starting work at 11am and then a second day at 11pm is definitely something that he had to discover about himself.
"From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matthew 4:17
"But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." Matthew 5:39°
The beauty of asking the right questions. And the pleasure of hearing answers from a mind as brilliant, yet humble, as that of Demis Hassabis. Fabulous. Thank you!
Never have I clicked faster on a video notification!
Same 🎉
Same!
Same here. Super happy and pumped to see this interview. Great first question by the way. :)
Then you may have been pre-exposed to what you could expect. I was reluctant and now understand your comment after listening and cleaning my windows and balcony while listening and learning by leaps and bounds.
it's just amazing how much you can learn from listening to two incredibly talented people converse with each other. Thank you Lex.
Built an AI that can play a game in the age of 12, then in the age of 13-14, built a game with an AI component that sold miliions of copies around the world, all of that without all of the ready made libraries and tools of today.
WTF
With this dude, we don't need AGI.
I didnt know, still the best theme park game ive ever played. Its on my steam library
@@julius43461 This made my day
The most profound interview you have done, imo. Thank you for doing it.
The Hoffman interview was much more so. This guy isn't exactly creative. Rote.
sure no problem
Ted, can I have $4.99 too?
@@jamesbarlow6423 that's because what he is saying in this podcast is going well over your head... Ted is right possibly because he knows Abit more in this subject.
@@ILoveBluePeople . Er no Tobin I've listened to all of them and none of it has ever "gone over my head" as you put it. In fact, the intellectual naïvete is pretty alarming!
It’s refreshing to see a man of that intellect having the ability to explain an idea in simple, jargon free, English.
This has to be one of the most underrated channels on UA-cam. You never fail to bring brilliant guests and thought provoking content. Thank you, Lex, you’re the real MVP.
What a fantastic interview!!!
You asked Demis all the questions I wanted to ask and quite a few I wouldn't have thought of. It made watching this as good as or better than being able to spend 2 hours with him myself. You were clearly very well prepared for this interview.
Excellent job.... really excellent!
Waited so long for this to happen. Stunning conversation, so many interesting thoughts. Please let there be a round 2 in the future!
I'm impressed by the breadth of vision of Demis. He keeps a list of fundamental problems in multiple scientific fields and regularly checks whether they can be solved by deep learning.
It is amazing to the point of being emotionally moving honestly. What an incredible service to the future of humankind. This man’s life did not go to waste, and those who experience life after him will be far better off because of his existence.
Demis is the most rational, complete and intelligent person I’ve heard in 50 years
Ohhhhhh there it is. One of those epic moments in Lex convo history.
Been waiting for this day for a couple of years. Glad you finally got the genius on the show!
I know nothing about AI and this is my favorite podcast of all time. So eloquent and somehow down to earth. Bravo 💙
Learning he’s a night owl and he manages it and still being that brilliant is making sooooo happy.
This is so awesome. I love to watch any and all interviews with Demis.
Wow just wow, this is probably the best interview I've ever seen. So much respect for Demis Hassabis he's a true genius realizing all his potential.
youtube.com/@pritesh-quotes?sub_confirmation=1
Really great interview - There should be a second one with Demis Hassabis !! would really appreciate that
Demis is the true picture of what human intelligence is and what can it do....Huge Respect for him....
All I can say is Thank you, Lex, for bringing this fantastic interview to us all.
Demis undoubtedly is one of the most brilliant minds in the scientific community, and being able to access that mind through your perfectly timed questions is nothing short of a great gift.
The content you are creating is superb; once again, thank you for your brilliant work.
Lex, this is one of your best podcasts.
Hassabis needs to write a book on AGI.
I can't wait to read it!
👣
Demis is one of the greatest minds of this generation. Godspeed you beautiful man
What a beautiful brain he has. He can express his thoughts so clearly and found answers to things I didn't even have questions about. Thanks a lot for this very interesting conversation!
Beautiful mind*
Yes! IQ off the charts, 60 points higher than Einstein's IQ...
Really nice to get know Demis a bit through this conversation. He is so normal, for such a super intelligent person.
Lex you are a legend, I’ve been listening for a while now and this is one of the best yet. I hadn’t heard much of Demis until this, he’s now my hero, what a guy!
Watch the AlphaGo documentary if you haven’t already!!
When the logic is good, its easy to understand complex ideas. Thank you Lex, another gr8 one.
Demis is an incredible guy. I met him through the DeepMind scholarship programme. They paid for my postgrad degree in Computer Vision. They are truly changing lives and I'll forever be grateful for those amazing people working there.
That is my favorite interview of all the ones I saw you conduct so far Lex. It was clear, focused and Demis was welcoming and cooperative to make the most out of the time constraint. He never got lost in the weeds, he offered his thoughts on a topic and went along with what you deemed the most interesting, with warmth. For being who he is, doing what he does, he is surprisingly aware and socially adept.
Open sourcing AlphaFold to speed up biology learning gave me the biggest goose bumps ever. A great honor indeed to listen to all this. So much to learn. Thank you Lex and Demis.
@@pistolpete2803
They intend to apply their own methods but to do that they require infrastructure and that means it would be easier to buy another company that is already active.
Amazing interview as always, Lex!
If I could be so bold as to put forth a suggestion, asking Demis more explicit questions about AI safety would be on the list
What a rich and meaningfull conversation! Thank you so much for this interview, one can get so much insights from it!
This is such an incredible interview, a real merging of minds and opening of the door to what we truly want to learn. The fact this is just the beginning of all this blows my (deepest) mind.
Two guys both with intelligence and knowledge only very few people have, talking to each other in a way that is not intimidating but truly enlightening to a mere mortal like myself is enjoyable beyond any words I have at my disposal. Thanks to both of you.
This was really insightful for a young AI enthusiast like myself, Lex. Thanks for all of these understandings and perspectives from the world's most powerful minds.
this is the best podcast I've listened to on this channel. thank you so much Lex, for doing this for us. you are truly the best "tool" for spreading knowledge, making us curious about the universe, everything.
I discovered Lex's podcast just a month ago, every episode is a delight to listen to, great host, exceptional guests
This guy is awesome... Plus the English accent makes listening to a conversation pleasant regardless of topic. But Demis is out there making it happen for real, which is really exceptional.
Loved this. Beautifully crafted conversation, covered his work, goals, broader Qs, excellent work Lex, pleasure to listen to Demis
lex i love that you offer multiple questions for the guest to answer. let them decide where to go with it a bit like you do. great job
I just rewatched Alphago the movie the other day on YT. So happy to see this interview come up!
The enthusiasm and thoughtfulness that Demis puts into all his answers is very inspiring.
I make all his opinions my own.
Haha. Well stated
Much better to reach your own realizations and conclusions to form an individual opinion would you think . Great to consider what
"From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matthew 4:17
"But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." Matthew 5:39°
Don't. Do your own thinking. This guy may be light years off but he'd never know it.
It’s so cool that we are alive during this time of the true pioneers of AI. This man will be in the “textbooks” forever
One of the most influential AI persons of our time in my favorite podcast. This is a treat. I love the thought that future AI will analyze this interview as an important cultural milestone right before the technological singularity.
youtube.com/@pritesh-quotes?sub_confirmation=1
Wow you got Demis on board - that is absolutely brilliant . Have been waiting for this one for a long time - can’t wait to listen to it
There are few things in life as inspiring as listening to your conversations. Thanks for existing!
That was one of the best interviews I've ever seen. It makes me happy that the cutting edge of AI is in the hands of this guy.
Thanks for the inspiring and informative contents you’re producing Lex.
Love from France
Wonderful interview with Demis Hassabis, thank you again!
I found several aspects of the discussion fascinating: the thought with which Demis gave to the Deep Mind project prior to its 2010 start, his rationale for initial focus on closed gaming systems, his likening of ML as a useful tool for biology as mathematics is to physics, his plans to create within ML interactions of proteins ultimately leading to a synthetic biological cell which with will allow us ideally to explore the origins of life, the limitations of the Turing test as a definitive proof of consciousness, and several other thought provoking points.
You have a knack for getting extraordinary guests, and in the long form interview format allowing them an unbridled and largely unedited opportunity to share their thoughts - and themselves - with your audience. Great job!
I understand the theme usually... but I'm thankful we're in a well-lit room for this podcast.
Considering Demis’ comments on Conscious AI requiring well-constructed guard rails as opposed to public a/b testing (chatgpt), I think we need an update on this interview Lex 🙏🏽
This guy was brilliant coming out of the womb. I'm so amaze with the way brilliant people think. He is impressive !!!
Great interview!
I am feeling for AI now a pull I once felt for software engineering...it may be time to go back for a masters in AI.
Had to go watch a talk from Demos first then came back here. Lex, your questions and responses were lovely as always.
Beautiful, insightful and inspiring. I had goosebumps, almost teared up during some parts of this one. This would stay with me for a long long time
“We may be the mechanism by which the universe is trying to understand itself”
Thanks Lex :)
Same here... I got tear on my eyes during the first 10-15 minutes.
Two AGI robots without a utility function sit on a park bench.
The best podcast I've seen in a while. Demis is such a humble genius.
Thanks for asking all those thought provoking questions which allowed us to take a quick peak into the thought process of this wonderful mind. Truly amazing.
I can't describe the feeling I had when listening to this one. I hope you get Demis back on. I hope I can work on systems that have such a massive impact on the world in the future. I absolutely loved this episode!
To me; probably the greatest interview I've ever seen. Demis and team are changing the world - in a mild mannered way - an order of magnitude beyond what Elon achieves (great as that is). Deepmind are stirring scientific revolutions at an incredible pace; catapulting the human race forwards.
Agreed
It's funny how i see this video is 9 months old and I feel it's very old past. As the AI progress has been so incredible in the past months that it seems were already in another world and closer to the computational intelligence/ consciousness hypothesis
Absolute banger of a video
Thank you for this content and for the path this channel is on
lex thank you so much for your absolute treasure trove of a podcast. in my opinion it is one of the best channels on all of youtube. please never stop, thank you!!!
Demis Hassabis: "[...] and in machine learning what we've always found is that the more end to end you can make it the better the system." [47:36 - 47:42]
This conversiation was an absolute joy to listen to! So, Demis is the creator of my giant pet ape in Black and White.
Can't believe he helped make Theme Park! Those 'Theme' games were absolutely brilliant.
@@riggmeister Yes! Have such fond memories from that game.
Yhee most of his sentenses could be an episod in itself, I am used to it by now.
There are fewer moore info dence people as Demis.
Yes, the giant pet ape (or cow, or tiger) that wouldn't learn to stop eating its own poo.
The jokes just write themselves.
Resonated so much with Demis' thoughts. Brilliant person and a brilliant podcast!
Brilliant to rewatch today. I would love a new conversation with Demis.
Grateful for this conversation and the work that DeepMind is doing. Exciting times we live in.
Just found this channel two days ago! Excellent content, man! Thanks a lot and greetings from Finland! 🇫🇮
Welcome
Lots of great guests, but also wackos - thread with care. From geniuses like Hassabis/Carmack - all the way to crazy Alex Jones clones.
This podcast is amazing, thank you so much, lex, for the inmense value you provide.
Very refreshing to have an informed, intelligent interviewer conversing with a very accomplished expert in the field of artificial intelligence among other scientific specialties and being given the time to deep dive into the various subjects. Enjoyed it a lot!
This guy and conversation is truly amazing. What immense intelligence
I played Theme Park as a kid and still have music and vomit sounds of it randomly in my head from time to time. Truly this man is a genius.
Much Apprecialove for your show, for sharing your questions, concerns, insights, and genuinely good vibes ... Very Well Done ! 👏🙏🙌💯💜🕊️
That was an amazing one. I just finished watching it and I'm excited and hopeful about the future. Thanks Lex
This man might be the Leonardo da Vinci of our generation, what a pleasure to follow what he and the guys at Deep Mind are doing and what a time to be alive!
I thought the same thing - except I chose Michelangelo! Lex and Demis are both Renaissance Men!
Genius - a friend of mine met him whilst on holiday in Cyprus - give this guy / his team a Nobel prize
to have so many brilliant minds respond on the highest technical and humane levels is a testament to respecting the same levels from the host. Thank you Lex.
Lex...
Thank You Sir.
I really enjoy your conversations!
You have created a very nice channel, yet what is more important is the content.
As just another human, a nod and a thank you for this stuff, it is front line. You and your team have great questions.
This was a great birthday present Lex, thank you for this interview
Hi Lex, thanks for another great discussion. Have you considered speaking with Eliezer Yudkowsky? If you're unaware, he's into AGI and is a bit of an enigma in the field. He would probably be an interesting guest! Cheers.
One of the greatest interview that caught my attention and the most interesting people of the modern time. Now Demis is one of the most searching person in my research, his works and life
Thank you gentlemen, for your work respectively & inspiration in this interview. You've even helped nudge me away from orbiting The Pit Of Doom! I wish you both very well.
This is like seeing a movie, it might feel real but is not until you just remember is just a movie. Whatever you think is real, becomes real, at the end you have the decision. We are creators, but never ever think we can create at the same level at the creator , with land tools. The robot one day can cry, but is not real, is just a movie.
Whatever we create can have benefits or works against us. Like the phone , someone using it 24hrs nonstop, other using it to help then make the life easier.
Be safe.
What a great conversation between two guys who can't wait to join the borg. The light wins in end. Much love guys.
Great guy with a great mind, amazing podcast!
Thanks for amazing interview, you and Demis are inspiration to us all
The most beautiful quote I have heard in my life: "The human brain built a computer to understand itself and the universe it lives in".
Demis is a fantastic communicator and talks about complex, technical and novel ideas in a very understandable way, any interview of him is a definite watch!
This man is so amazing and lex you did an excellent job interviewing I was very impressed
Thank you for this mesmerizing and remarkable conversation. Truely inspiring 💫