Why Rauru's Kingdom Wasn't FIRST (ft. @wizcatcheslightning ) [TotK THEORY]
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- Опубліковано 24 чер 2024
- ----- NOTES
Script: Wiz and TAMV
Editing: Mostly Wiz
Thumbnails: Wiz
Diagrams: TAMV
Handsomeness: Mostly TAMV
Patreon: www.patreon.com/user?u=101499383
Twitter: / thinkingatmaxv
Instagram: / thinking.at.max.volume
Guess who got Photoshop.
There's also another piece of evidence we learned while making these videos. Historia actually points out how in Zelda 2: Adventure of Link, it tells of how Zelda the First was put into an eternal slumber, but if you look closely you'll realize this happens AFTER the Golden Era, meaning they forgot about every Zelda who came before. What does this mean? Either this kingdom after ALttP is a new iteration of the kingdom, or this kingdom forgot it's own history.
EDIT: @mrbiscuits001 had a very good point on Wiz's video:
"I think something that flat out proves this is something we learn from Ganondorf's character profile in TotK. Whilst malice will always leak out and cause a Calamity, the only thing that actually damages the seal is Hyrule castle being damaged. Hyrule castle being damaged in BotW is actually the first time Rauru's seal was weakened. And because we see Hyrule castle get flat out destroyed multiple times this means that Ganondorf couldn't be sealed down there during the older games. We know for a fact that BotW and TotK are connected to the existing timeline so them (past & present) taking place after is the only explanation that works."
-----TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Intro + Theory Defined
3:58 - Ancient Rito Sage
8:03 - SS/ OoT Sage Medallions
10:00 - Forest and Wind Temples
13:20 - Gerudo Eyes and Ears
17:20 - Molduga
18:56 - Geography + Outro
-----VIDEOS
"How TotK Fixes The Zelda Timeline" - TAMV
• How Tears of the Kingd...
"How Tears of the Kingdom HACKS the Zelda Timeline" - Wiz
• How Tears of the Kingd...
""Wind Waker Without the Ocean" - Wind Waker: Unflooded
• Update: "Wind Waker" W...
"MORE Out of Bounds Secrets | Tears of the Kingdom - Boundary Break" - Shesez
• MORE Out of Bounds Sec...
"Zelda: Twilight Princess' Strangest Mystery… Solved?" - Zeltik
• Zelda: Twilight Prince...
-----MUSIC USED
"Mayor's Meeting" - LoZ: Majora's Mask
"Outset Island" - LoZ: Wind Waker
"Wind Temple Approach" - LoZ: Tears of the Kingdom
"Zora's Domain" - LoZ: Breath of the WIld
"Chamber of Sages" - LoZ: Ocarina of Time
"Forest Temple" - LoZ: Twilight Princess
"Spirit Temple" - LoZ: Tears of the Kingdom
"Lanayru Mining Facility" - LoZ: Skyward Sword
"Beedle's Shop Theme" - LoZ: Wind Waker
"Dark World Theme" - LoZ - A Link to the Past
#zelda #tearsofthekingdom #theory #nintendo - Ігри
![Were The Zonai Shrines Hidden In The Silent Realm? [TotK THEORY]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8Ux6dJvNeAQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Go check out Wiz's video! ua-cam.com/video/XBZuKEunF24/v-deo.html (EDIT: Wiz's video got copyright claimed so this is the new link. Sorry for the trouble)
EDIT:
There's also another piece of evidence we learned while making these videos (sorry to the commenter who told us, I can't find your username. That's my bad). Historia actually points out how in Zelda 2: Adventure of Link, it tells of how Zelda the First was put into an eternal slumber, but if you look closely you'll realize this happens AFTER the Golden Era, meaning they forgot about every Zelda who came before. What does this mean? Either this kingdom after ALttP is a new iteration of the kingdom, or this kingdom forgot it's own history.
EDIT:
@mrbiscuits001 had a very good point on Wiz's video:
"I think something that flat out proves this is something we learn from Ganondorf's character profile in TotK. Whilst malice will always leak out and cause a Calamity, the only thing that actually damages the seal is Hyrule castle being damaged. Hyrule castle being damaged in BotW is actually the first time Rauru's seal was weakened. And because we see Hyrule castle get flat out destroyed multiple times this means that Ganondorf couldn't be sealed down there during the older games. We know for a fact that BotW and TotK are connected to the existing timeline so them (past & present) taking place after is the only explanation that works."
Following the link tells me the uploader removed the video.
he just removed it
@@Defender1876 Sorry. His video got copyright claimed so he had to edit it quick. Link will be fixed in a couple minutes
also, in your defense, society could have regressed back into a hunter gather state if demise/Ganon/demon tribe member almost destroyed all of the hyrulians, so he could have founded a Hyrule kingdom without knowing THE Hyrule kingdom was lost to time.
@@BigAutisticDaddy The Demon Tribe pretty much ensured that "Hyrule" would be forever trapped in a loop where the kingdom would be founded only to dissapear centuries later before a new kingdom is founded by future Hylians. I wish TotK Zelda good luck trying to achieve "eternal peace" with the Demon Curse already set to destroy Hyrule (again) in the future.
what's funny about the Gorons is that they have basically gone unchanged since Skyward Sword, meaning that they are pretty much as perfect as they can get
Well of course they are! I mean look at them!
All they really need to do is not be picky eaters.
Obviously, they're SPHERICAL
I got a "theory" to explain why the Gorons haven't changed: they are the _chosen_ race of the goddess Din who *wants* the Gorons to remain unchanged for eternity. Same thing applies to Nayru and the Zora and Farore and the Kokiri/Korok.
@@javiervasquez625well the difference is the zora and the kokiri literally changed into the koroks
Another solid argument that supports this theory is that in BoTW, it was stated that a male Gerudo hasn't been born since the first King who became the Calamity. Ganondorf was only sealed, not killed, so it stopped him from reincarnating. This then contradicts the different reincarnations of Ganondorf in the three timelines. So this means that ToTK and BoTW can only happen AFTER the timeline merges.
Not true. The book specifically states there’s been no male rulers of the Gerudo since Ocarina of Time. Not ‘no male births’. In FSA for example, there is a Ganondorf that was only a regular Gerudo citizen.
@@WindMageMaster According to Creating a Champion (page 401):
"The Gerudo are a proud nation of women. They give birth exclusively to females and only allow women into their capital, Gerudo Town. It is a long-held belief that men only bring disaster. However, long ago it is said that a boy was born to the Gerudo tribe every one hundred years and, per tradition, became King of the Gerudo.
…
According to Gerudo records there has not been another male Gerudo leader since the king who became the Calamity."
This implies that every male born in the Gerudo is their default Leader/King by Birth according to their tradition. Plus it was also implied in Zelda lore that a Gerudo male can only be born once the former King had died. If we also follow the tradition that a male is born every 100 years, then why wasn't there a Gerudo male during Link's 100 years in the Shrine of resurrection?
@@mrn1616 Yes, they were king by tradition, but that tradition is stated to have specifically been done away with after Ganondorf in OoT. Hyrule Historia and Encyclopedia backs that up. Hence, they are no longer born as king. This is, again, why I stated FSA Ganondorf was not a Gerudo king and only a Gerudo citizen while there was a female chieftain in his era. There’s also never been any indication that a male has to die in order for the next to be born, that’s never been a thing. I’ve heard people repeat that, so I ask for a source and they come back with “it just makes sense to me”. Ok, but WHERE? It’s only “one is born every 100 years”- not “only one can exist at a time, so if one is over 100, the next can’t be born”
Sorry fot barging into this but reincarnation heavily implies that the one before has to die
That is what I thought too
Not to mention that Sonia (an obvious descendant of the blood of the goddess/Zelda) was not acknowledged to be a royal blooded member before being married to Zonai Rauru she was mentioned to be a Hylian Priestess (obviously because of her goddess bloodline powers like manipulating time). So that means that after all the timeline convergence something happened to the former royal family that may have gotten lost in time until they came back to their status as royalty through Sonia marrying Rauru and founding Hyrule’s kingdom again.
The Royal Families of the 3 timelines (including Tetra's Royal Family from Spirit Tracks) _disbanded_ at some point during the end of their respective timelines leading to a long period of time in which the people of each Hyrule would forget the existence of said kingdoms and only would keep memory of them as simple _legends_ and _myths_ which were passed down from parent to child until the Era of the Wild came along. When Rauru and Sonia founded their Hyrule they did so in honor of the _legends_ surrounding this lost kingdom in an attempt to revive old customs which were lost in the long past.
@@javiervasquez625 Which makes it a miracle that relics such as Zelda's lullaby has survived into the present day. Although, since the song is engraved in the metalwork insignia above the throne, it could be as a result of someone finding a relic of the previous Hyrule and reincorporating it into their kingdom.
She isn't and there is actually zero facts pointing toward her being a decendant. They even clearly state sonia and zelda don't hold the same power. Sonia has an entirely different power than zeldas decendant
@@drdizastargames1337 Maybe the power only Zelda possess was _passed down_ to her by her mother who herself inherited from _her_ mother and her mother's mother all the way to Sonia and her unseen _DAUGHTER_ which explains why Sonia, a *descendant* of Hylia, didn't carry such power within her when Zelda is sent to the past to meet her. This "power" hidden throughout the princesses of Hyrule is the golden relic left by the Golden Goddesses who tasked the goddess Hylia (the progenitor of the Royal Family's bloodline) with watching over it for _eternity_ to ensure it wouldn't fall into evil's hands. The omnipotent triangle able to grant any wish the wielder so desired... the source of order and *Light* across the entire Zelda universe as seen in A Link between Worlds...
...the Triforce.
@@javiervasquez625 Yeah, the Light power comes from the Triforce of Wisodm, and her time power comes from being Hylia Incarnate.
Sonia just didn't have the Triforce piece... which is _interesting._
That Molduga bit was great, both for how entertaining it was but also because it’s a pretty good point. Heck the closest we see to a molduga is at the end of the splits while the start of the splits and before it even they look nothing like Molduga. You ain’t gonna convince me that I’m only a short span of time it went from a badass scorpion to a giant sand worm to a small green pathetic looking worm thing only to centuries later return to the sand worm.
Yeah.
This makes A LOT of sense, it is either a timeline merger or a whole new timeline, but for it to happen before OOT makes no sense, it also makes no sense for there to be 2 ganon's existing at the same time such as one that is sealed while the other one is causing issues in hyrule.
Eh, my head canon is that it's at the very end (so far) of the downfall timeline using some elements from the Shotaro Ishinomori LTTP manga to explain the Rito.
Well done, the refounding theory is the only one that makes sense to me.
I never really thought that the Rauru of TOTK was the actual very first King of the land called Hyrule. What I got from the story line while exploring and collecting the tears and armors was that Rauru (TOTK) was the first King of the modern Hyrule; the Hyrule of BOTW, and TOTK. Throughout one’s play through of TOTK, weapon sets and clothing sets of past Hero’s (Links) can be found and worn. That’s a clear indication that there were many heroes and Kingdoms that existed before Rauru and Hyrule of TOTK. Where exactly does this modern Hyrule fit in the timeline I don’t know for sure but I think it’s safe to assume that it’s probably the most recent Hyrule/Zelda and Link.
I think that although Nintendo says that *Hyrule Warriors* doesn’t fit into the Zelda timeline, it actually does. To summarize *Hyrule Warriors* : Hyrule is beset with the three timelines merging together to form the new universe which would eventually lead to Totk’s history. It would explain the many outfits, weapons, relics, locations etc. found in Botw.
@@Hugz4All16Hyrule Warriors contains every character needed for the DLC armour, this Ganondorf fits exactly with the story of Calamity Ganon, it explains the different races existing simultaneously (although that can also be explained in a bunch of ways), but what it doesn't explain is how TP or WW would happen if they're drawing from those timelines too. It's cool, but it just doesn't work. It actually creates more problems than answers with how it fuses timelines together which would in turn make it impossible for some games to happen. Let me put it this way, Marin dies at the end of LA, but we do know that she's present from when the Windfish has the dream, and from when it wakes up. Basically, if Marin were out on the frontlines in HW, she wouldn't be in LA. Another example is Spirit Zelda. Zelda turns into a ghost at the start of Spirit tracks, and gets her body back at the end. She is present throughout the whole game which would mean there's no time for her to fight a war as a ghost. Now imagine that on a larger scale, timelines literally fusing together. It just couldn't work. BotW can actually fit really well in the Downfall timeline though.
To me, after the death of Sonia and the disappearance of Rauru, the Hylians became the "Zonai Tribe" that created the Barbarian armor and the statues/buildings around Faron Woods and dealt with the first Great Calamity.
The Hyrule that exists in BoTW being the eventual recreation of the kingdom under a Hylian King, with the castle unknowingly being built atop the sight of Ganondorf's seal.
@@ghoulie11that last part is partially debunk do to the opening cutscene were Zelda explains that while its not known what is under the castle, the royals are aware that something is there. As its forbidden to go down or even speak about it. Its a pretty big clue in the game to tell us that the castle was built there on purpose.
@@Hugz4All16That’s a good connection, unfortunately Hyrule Warriors is not considered canon.
It even says in game that the Zonai found a bunch of artifacts in this case all the DLC items for the previous heroes) and hid them in their mines in the Depths. Personally, I theorize that the convergence happened once the Triforce is reunited in all 3 timelines, since the Child Timeline never actually reunited theirs.
I’m guessing this means the DLC items being in possession of Misko isn’t canon anymore.
Eh, whatever, Misko can go to Hell
oh wow where does it say that?
@@Isuream6331 only the cave items belonged to Misko, and Misko was a bandit who could have stolen them from other ruins. The depths items are something else.
@@nworder4life Yeah. In one of the Yigas journals, they say they've been finding Zonai chests and assume there are artifacts in there. Well, if you open these chests you'll find Zonai charges and stuff but you also find the armor and gear of past heroes and you can find maps to find them on the Zonai Sky Islands.
or maybe there will be a game where the main antagonist is the goddess of time
This timeline chronology is basically the same thing I thought when I played through totk. Hyrule was literally flooded at one point. It's not like it hasn't been refounded a bunch of times.
Theres also the fact that Sonia's "Light" stone became Ganon's "Darkness" stone. So the "Element" isnt something locked as a specific one. Meaning Sagehood only requires a individual, and that individuals "Element" is personalized based on thier personality. So you could have a forest sage or a wind, or a water or even a second Fire if theres already a fire sage. Much like how everyone has their own name. but you may find someone with that same name elsewhere
I like all the points you dudes made! Also, Urbosa mentions in BOTW that a king hasn't been born to the Gerudo for 10k yrs. So, if Ganon of TOTK was right after skyward sword, how could there be other Ganons while he's stuck in magic zombie coma? (he can't? because others couldn't get reborn while he's not alive/not dead..... so, yeah). Thanks dudes!
Another piece of evidence for this (might be mentioned in Wiz’s video, haven’t watched it yet)
In Ganondorf’s character description in TOTK, it says the seal was broken due to the damage to the castle from the great calamity. That, in addition to the plaque we find beneath hyrule castle, makes it very clear that the structural soundness of the castle is extremely important to keeping demon dorf sealed. That makes sense, the great calamity is meant to be the greatest tragedy for hyrule in recent history. Key point, recent history. We see damage to hyrule castle on the level of the calamity, as well as takeovers of hyrule castle, MANY times before the events of BOTW, examples including the rising of Hyrule castle in OOT, the flooding of Hyrule in WW, and the twili invasion in TP.
So my question for pre-minish cap believers is what makes the calamity’s damage so special. The real biggest issue is definitely Hyrule castle in OOT, where not only is the castle raised into the sky JUST LIKE HOW IT LOOKS IN TOTK, but the entire castle also gets entirely FLATTENED, not just damaged. If demon dorf was sealed pre-OOT, then how on earth was THAT not the catalyst for his reawakening?
Wind Waker should disprove this anyways since the kingdom was flooded and they founded a new continent and new kingdom.
Great points!
Very much that; I pointed that out under Wiz's video, as well. Good to know I am not the only one having an issue with the castles if TotK's past is supposed to be post SS/pre-Minish Cap.
I'd also note that the king in OoT trusting another Ganondorf after having a massive Imprisoning War just a couple centuries earlier makes him look extremely foolish (we know the royal family is in-the-know of the seal and the castle's importance and records of this war have survived tens of millenia into BotW's/TotK's Zelda's time. So it's reasonable to assume that the same records, if not more, were available to the royal family during OoT.
So yeah, in my book, TotK's past has to play after any/all games/timelines to make sense.
Anything else contradicts and retcons too much for my taste.
@@UltimateTobi I appreciate that point too, yeah. It is important to note though the in OOT, it’s specifically meant to make the royal family seem foolish and dismissive of their magic daughter’s visions (ergo why baby Zelda feels it’s necessary to send baby link on an adventure), so the royal family and specifically the king being idiots isn’t entirely out of the picture.
That being said like you said that idea does feel too retcony, and like you I also like the idea that TOTK takes place post merge a lot more (if it wasn’t obvious)
But the castle in TMC and OoT is a different Hyrule Castle. In Twilight Princess, the dev books have confirmed they built a new castle in the center of the land (where the seal is) after the events of Ocarina of Time. And you can see this occur on all timelines.
One fun piece of evidence that I’ve uncovered myself but haven’t noticed anyone mention yet, is the map of Spirit Tracks. The map of Spirit Tracks, in particular the official artwork map found in Hyrule Historia, looks almost EXACTLY like BOTW/TOTK’s map. And Spirit Tracks takes place in a newly founded Hyrule. So it’s possible this is the Hyrule where the Zonai descended way after it’s collapse.
There's far too much similarity between SS's Sealed Temple and BotW/TotK's Forgotten Temple. FT is pretty identical to the ST, just dilapidated from age.
To be honest the map of A Link to the Past is also very similar to BotW/TotK considering the 4 corners ressembling the forests around Rito Village, Death Mountain, Gerudo desert and Lake Hylia so Nintendo might have simply taken cues from past Zelda games to design the locations in this new Hyrule.
Might I add that in botw and totk we get no acknowledgment of the triforce's exsistance, but the imagery (like the one on Sonia's arm) still appears. like it was a carried over culture from their ancestors. Rauru Is the first king of New Hyrule maybe? I don't know anything about the plot of spirit tracks but I imagine link and Zelda discovered new hyrule and the Zonai were already there. possibly Sonia is descended from that Zelda or is in fact her daughter?.... i feel like I might be speculating too much.
@@DanDan-wg7ny Rauru and Sonia founded New Hyrule after the _Era of Myth_ mentioned in the book "Creating a Champion" which is stated to be the period in which ALL the past games in the series happened before the Era of the Wild came to be. It's very probable that when Rauru and Sonia founded their Hyrule they did so in honor of the _legendary Hyrule_ spoken of in ancient myths and oral stories passed down through the people of the land. With the information provided by Creating a Champion in mind it is impossible for Sonia to be the daughter/close descendant of Spirit Tracks Zelda.
@@DanDan-wg7nywell In spirit tracks there was a civilization in New hyrule before tetra and link, they leave and ascend towards the heavens at the end if I remember right.
This is the most convincing evidence for timeline placement that ive heard. Great job, guys.
The other thing about the Gerudo too is that their first appearance in the series was literally Ocarina of Time, which lends itself further to BOTW/TOTK being a reconvergance, not being placed after SS
The one nitpick/wrench I will throw at this is how heavy-handed Tears of the Kingdom is in pointing out that the past events are the Imprisoning War, which is the start of the Downfall Timeline, as currently printed. They could have called it anything, but they specifically have each Sage recall it as the Imprisoning War.
One thing that usually doesn't get taken into account with timeline theories is that when talking of the Rito and Zora, no one considers the possibility that, although the Rito evolved from Zora and that the freshwater Zora couldn't survive the change into the saltwater ocean of the great flood, the Zora from Termina lived in the ocean and we're therefore saltwater Zora. There's no reason they couldn't eventually find the gateway to Hyrule and migrate there, where the great flood made for the perfect environment for them. As the flood gradually dried, those Zora could have evolved to survive in fresh water, either via magic in the way Zora became Rito, or by evolution over time. This would explain how we can have both Zora and Rito at the same time. The Zora have a history of drastically evolving, considering how they appear in the original Zelda, a Link to the Past, and a Link between worlds.
Correct. But Molduga ha ha ain’t noway no one would not notice a giant sand whale that whole time. My English is superb 😂
@@paintfatpurple7394it could be that the Molduga come from a deeper part of the desert that we dont explore and by the time of BoTW they migrated to hyrule
There are also Salt Water Zora in Labrynna in in Oracle of Ages
Rito didn't evolve from Zora, stop the bs
@@gonhunter3994 They literally did. This is a major plot point of Wind Waker
I'm not a huge game-theory fan but I do really like matpat's explanation on how all the different references from all the past Zelda's come together in breath of the wild. He suggests that at some point all the branching timelines blend back together for Hyrule Warriors, because the game's plot revolves around drawing past characters into one universe - which could also include many other things like places and items and characters - so then going forward it would make sense that that could be the land that appears in Breath of the wild and subsequently Tears of the Kingdom
12:25 The Forest Temple in OoT was originally planned to be the Wind Temple but was later changed to the Forest Temple. The Forest Medallion's design is a leftover hint at this being the case as it depicts wind, but since the Temple itself had very little to do with Wind being a mechanic, they decided to change the name of the Temple, but left the Medallion unchanged. Good video! Subbed and keeping my eyes peeled for more TAMV content. 👍
Furthermore, the 'forest' challenge in GT is all wind based
What's the name of the trope for people who go down to the comments and explain stuff literally stated in the video as if it were new information?
@Wendy_O._Koopa 11:15 Alright, I'll admit I just barely missed this section, my bad. My comment at least elaborated a little more on why it was changed from Wind to Forest.
I had a similar conversation some time ago. If we ignore the part where Aonuma just doesn't care, and these aren't 'clues' so much as 'plot holes' then the only logical conclusion would be that Rauru considers himself to be the first king and founder of Hyrule, because he doesn't think any of the previous versions were real. It would be like if someone founded a kingdom of Camelot today. Sure Camelot has a lot of history, too much history, contradictory history, seeing as it's long past copyright; but did it ever really exist? Who knows? When did it exist if it did? Iunno? Now, some time _after_ this new Hyrule's founding, mythology from beforehand seeped in, and that's why the 'current' (yet tens of thousands of years old) Hyrule has references to all other points in time and all other timelines. There was either a 'Dragonbreak' (merging of the timelines) or a 'Mandela Effect' (people remembering things from different timelines) or maybe simply events so similar to the games we've seen happened in all three timelines that after so long they all kinda look the same and it doesn't matter anymore.
Idk the timeline is getting so weird and silly that I'm at the point where I'll just stick to "Aonuma doesn't care and these are plot holes".
@@Byssbodit isn't Aonuma that doesn't care, but his bosses.
I definitely agree with what you’re saying in the video. In fact, Disney’s setup with the events described in Frozen 1 & 2 is the same prequel to sequel setup we see in Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom.
Not sure if you got a new editor, or if you’ve just improved, but the editing in this video is super stand out :)
Yeah Wiz took the reins on editing because I'm still new to youtube. I do have Premiere Pro now though so I'm hoping I can keep the quality up
I’ll teach him everything I know! 😎
Perhaps after the collapse of hyrule, the new Hyrule that was founded appearred to be a stronger alliance between smaller nations that formed. After all, the races of Hyrule are far more united than many of the other games where they lived much more isolated lives. The Zora even have their own king despite them all being in the kingdom of hyrule, suggesting that hyrule is an alliance between all these different nations/territiories.
This video and the channel itself should get more views and exposure. Very well made and logically explained
The new Zelda timeline is just like in The Good Place. It’s a Jeremy Bearimy.
Totk is basically the dot on the "i" 😂
Awesome video man, keep it up!
Your theory is actually the only plausible theory and I've been saying that since I could make sense of TotK.
Great job.
Great video! I always thought that TOTK past was after all the other games but never even thought of most of the points you made here.
I didn't at all get the feeling that this was the FIRST Hyrule ever and honestly thought it was really weird that people got that impression.
I've always felt like botw and totk is at the end of the timelines that we have been officially given. It just seemed like the logical conclusion. We've also now seen 2 bootstrap paradoxes in these games. So literal timeline merging isn't out of the realm of possibility. Clearly hylia's time powers are INCREDIBLY powerful.
I’ve been trying to argue this since the game came out lol there’s just too much evidence. It’s great to see someone actually make a video on it!
So far, this timeline makes the most sense out of the various ones I have seen. Good vid and good work!
Counterpoint: the sheikah eye symbol is clearly based on the Zonai's literal physical 3rd eye. Young Impa is already using it in Skyward Sword so make of that what you will. (And if we take the idea that all Gerudo descend from the red haired topaz eyed pointy eared Groose as true maybe they did start out with pointed ears, lose and then regain then though even that doesn't fit with young impa and the sheikah eye)
So quick question, when Zelda knights Link she references the past games (through time, embers of twilight, etc.). Wouldn’t this mean she and other hylians know of the events of the past 3 timelines and thus the past Hyrules? If so, shouldn’t Rauru have known that he wasn’t the first king of hyrule?
That's the thing right. The people remember the past games as myth and legend. There's a section over on Wiz's video where I suggest that the Zonai heard the stories of the old Hyrule Kingdom and thought they were also myth and legend because there wasn't any existing kingdom when they showed up. Rauru's also a bit full of himself so it wouldn't surprise me if he ignored those stories so he could claim he was the first king
A detail that I don’t see mentioned is how the elements assigned to each of the golden goddesses changes from skyward sword to the next game they appear in. Typically the association is; Din-Fire, fayore-wind/forest, nayru-Water but in skyward sword they are linked to; Din-Fire, Fayore-Water, Nayru-Lightning. Which would imply some kind of pantheon shuffle early in the timeline where fayore relinquished the water to Nayru for some reason.
I'ts Dinraal-Fire, Faron-Lightning, Naydra-Ice. But your point still stands. That's a change from fire/forest/water!
@@oddlazdo that’s the dragons I meant the goddesses.
@@partyrock4144 when was Nayru associated with lightning or Farore with water?
@@oddlazdo skyward sword. It’s the whole premise of what i said. Farore’s crest is used to open the path to the water dragon and the green flame is in the ancient cistern.
@partyrock4144 ohhh youre right, I forgot about that. but that water dragon was in the forest, right? And it all lead to the ancient cistern? it's not zero evidence but I don't remember the association being as strong as you're saying it was. It's been a while since I played SS though. And I don't remember the Nayru=lightning thing at all
OMG!!! I am so here for this!!!
Thinkingoutlodatmaxvolume I watched your video that’s a month older than this first and you guys also thought of several points I put in the comments there!!! I’m going to go watch wiz’s video now if it’s in the suggestions below or your video description/pinned comment.
At the moment, the best timeline theory I've seen is that TOTK's past is a re-imagining of Ocarina of Time. At some point after Skyward Sword, the timeline splits. Then the events of Breath of the Wild and latter TOTK take place.
Hmmm. I head-fanon'ed that the Rito we know now were a people who used to live in Hyrule long before the series even began, but left for eons before coming back to their ancestral home. The Rito from the Windwaker were a short-lived species who called themselves the same thing, but their kind didn't last for very long. It's a loose theory, but I roll with it. EDIT: Since I had a nice talk with Wiz Catches Lightning, I felt it was fair to Subscribe to your channel as well as theirs. :)
while playing totk this was my headcannon cause there was no way the ancient events took place before all the other games. But then there´s something that doesn't add up. While everything else makes a lot of sense, in the game it is stated that the Temple of time from the great plateau, which is basically the same one from OoT, was built in representation of the TT in the great sky island. but then the great plateau's TT was built way before the one in the sky.
I don't think it is the very same Temple of Time from oot. In botw the old man said it was the "birthplace of the kingdom" referring to how it was build to represent the Temple of Time that's now up in the sky. Yet it looks nothing like the temple of time on the great sky island. Hylians probably just have a very different understanding of what a temple should look like than the zonai had and it just happens to look similar to the temple of time from oot since that's just the way they make temples.
After all, the forgotten temple has a similar architecture as well.
@@darkaymz ok i see your point, yeah maybe it's just another temple of time that looks too similar to the one in OoT.
@@darkaymzIsn’t it also implied that the Forgotten Temple is the severely ruined Sealed Temple/Temple of Hylia from Skyward Sword? If that is indeed true, then I think that lends credence to the idea that Hylians just follow different architectural standards than the Zonai. I think that the Forgotten Temple always had a more Hylian aesthetic despite being associated with the Zonai anyway.
This is one of the best timeline vids i’ve ever seen holy shit
I used to think that the explanation for why the geography changed sometimes radically between games is that the final battle between Link and the Big Bad would be so catastrophic that it caused the topography to change.
It would explain why, for example, there was such a massive difference between OoT and TP despite there only being around two hundred years between those two games. That’s not long enough for geography to naturally change so radically.
But there’s only five or six years between BotW and TotK but the geography isn’t changed all that much despite the catastrophic fight at the end of BotW.
So Hyrule is just naturally very geographically active.
It takes serious talent to talk about the headache that is zelda lore without well, causing a headache and making it enjoyable. Basically, good work, youve got a natural talent for these kinds of videos
Not if you're japanese and learn of this Lore directly from accurate source material as intended by Nintendo and the japanese people writing the stories of the games. It's only here in the West where the whole Lore thing is a big deal as the japanese fans have a pretty easy understanding of the story courtesy of their own language and culture.
@@javiervasquez625 cool
@@coidlacoid4922 _"Time to learn japanese!"_ (goes to nearest japanese language school to begin classes).
@@javiervasquez625Exactly! Western countries need to just get over themselves and understand once and for all that Zelda is fantasy and is written in such a way to be open ended for creativity reasons and so that they don’t write themselves into a corner having not always worry about making sure they’ve following every single idea and from past games.
@@werewolflover8636Fastasy enjoyers will happily eat up whatever make believe thing the author cooks up. They're not like scifi enjoyers that want to know the quantum physics of how ultrahand works.
However, the easiest way to piss off fantasy fans is to break consistency and ignore your own established rules for the world you created.
Unfortunately, Tears is littered with in inconsistencies and other poor writing choices. Whether subconsciously or not, fans pick up on that fact.
the insane amount of rock salt could mean that it was after wind waker.
The rock salt could be from the Lanaryu sea from SS
@@lucascott9920 but its EVERYWERE
@@Nomagtag So are bomb flowers and I believe in OoT we're told they only grow on Death Mountain and they're found all over the place
@@lucascott9920 E
Do you see where my thought process is coming from. Also the rock salt being everywhere could be because there are 3-5 ore deposits in the desert right by a Molduga so imagine only getting it from one spot and it being a pain to get
I watched both yours and Wiz's videos and can I just say thank you?? I've always assumed BotW took place after a timeline merge considering the embedded lore hints from past games, as well as the armor sets/weapons you can get--which is also why I agree that BotW/TotK are NOT a full reboot of the Zelda series (and also that it just makes the most sense). Everything you guys covered in both videos are points I've been thinking about, but haven't stringed together coherently, so I feel vindicated that I'm not alone in it! One thing that I found interesting in TotK that might serve as some additional "evidence" is the armor sets found in the labyrinths in particular: you have to go through a LOT just to unlock the 3 pieces of Phantom Ganon's armor, and when you finally do they rise from the ground in what could almost be described as a protective shrine or altar. In my mind, these pieces of armor were discovered by the Zonai and locked away because of the evil associated with them--possibly passed down through legends told by the Hylians of a time long past from an unknown era. ....But then again, since you can get the same set in BotW albeit differently, that might be reaching! I also kind of think the same thing applies to the weapons/armor found in the Depths (particularly in the colosseums), but again that could be a stretch if they're just meant to be fun Easter eggs and side quests. But again, thank you guys!!
I'm gonna keep it short .... Awesome video ....
I love this video and it’s so much fun to theorize all this but I have a sinking feeling that Nintendo really doesn’t know and Shigeru Miyamoto and Takashi Tezuka have been winging it the whole time and just borrowing ideas from all the other games and throwing them in a blender
Oh wow this theory is actually really good! And great video in general to
They really should have done the work to make rauru's hyrule actually the first without causing timeline issues just so zeldra and the master sword could hit harder on the reveal. It would actually be pretty sad thinking about how long that Zelda would be trapped either being sealed or dragon'd.
I've allways liked the idea that in each timeline eventually the cycle of hatred will repeat enlugh times that rouphly adjacent events will happen in each timeline. So events simmilar to TP could eventually happen in the Dpwnfall timeline. Personally it would make the most sense if the eventually the child timeline in particular had the other two happen in it with the adult timline happening at the end. So Child timine happens, then a new hyrule civil war breaks out with a new Ganondorf but he wins like in the adult timeline. Adult time line stuff keeps happening till yet another civil war breaks out and Gannondorf loses like at the start of the adult timeline and eventually new Hyrule is founded and then it gets FUCKING WIPED FROM THE ANELS OF HISTORY! Then the zonai show up and BOOM! Now TOTK can happen. Is effectively a timeline merger but with some meat on it's bones instead of "Ya they must have fused at some point. IDK. "
So basically FSA is the only reason this theory works.
I don't necessarily "like" it, but as I understand it that is canonically exactly what the devs intended when they made BotW. It's a "soft reboot" of the franchise, saying that all the previous games (and alternative versions of events similar in various ways to those games) happen in some order (to make up numbers for an example, perhaps one branch experiences a flood event in year 1000, another branch experiences a flood event in year 5000, and the other branch experiences a flood event in year 10000) but it's been so long and so much has happened over however many countless millennia that the differences in the exact sequence of events (comparing each branch of the timeline against the others) is irrelevant to the inevitable end result that they all end up at. (So with the flood for example, the fact that it happened at all at some point is more important somehow than messy details like when it happened and which other events happened before and after it.)
I don't know that this can be confirmed yet but I'm certain that with TotK the devs seem to have upgraded their stance to 'full reboot". Only BotW and TotK fit into the new canon. All else is retconned into maybe at best being stories that might have been told within Hyrule by storytellers with a very thin grasp on any actual historical facts and who relied on lots of creative embellishment to fill in the gaps in their knowledge. I don't really "like" this approach either, but that's without any room for doubt how the franchise is looking to me right now.
TotK's backstory, self-proclaimed as the Imprisoning War (which we all know is name-dropped directly from LttP's backstory, and the premise of the downfall timeline branch is supposed to be an alternate OoT where Link fails and the sages have to try to imprison Ganon without Link's help) is the new OoT. (Ganon pretending to play nice with the king is a plot point in both. Ganon stealing something of great power from the kingdom is a plot point in both. Sages gather to fight back against Ganon's rise to power. They just removed any trace of a fallen hero from the story.) TotK's present day events are the new LttP. (A hero arises to finish the job started long ago in the Imprisoning War.) The Depths fill the role of the Sacred Realm turned into a Dark World after Ganon was imprisoned there. I've seen someone look back on BotW and point out how with the divine beasts it's kinda loosely comparable to MM. (We've got a smoke monster instead of a crashing moon as the looming world-ending threat. Although the moon does change color when the monster's power grows stronger. And then four "giants" show up to help push the danger back.) They're drawing inspiration from the old games to reinvent them in the newly developing canon.
@@MuljoStpho It's _impossible_ for Nintendo to have *full rebooted* the series as both Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom are RIDDEN with references to ALL the games in the series (locations and Sheikah Shrines named after characters from past games, NPC conversations which reference events from past games and *hundreds* of easter eggs and minor hints at past games's events) not to mention the explicitly confirmed existence of Fi inside the Master Sword for Aonuma and co. to carelessly have thrown all that Lore and content regarding the Twili, Skyloft and etc. down the trashcan. As confirmed by the book Creating a Champion the events of the Era of the Wild take place thousands of years after the so called _Era of Myth_ in which all the games in the 3 timelines take place which absolutely prooves without a shadow of a doubt that the previous games are all SILL *CANON* even if they passed a long time ago to the point of becoming mere _legends_ passed down orally from parent to child to the point of been reference through the many locations and characters in the Era of the Wild.
All the many uses of past games's _plotlines_ such as Ganondorf pretending to form an alliance with the Royal Family, the use of the term "Imprisioning War" and the use of timetravel to save the day are all events which are _repeating_ themselves as per the Demon Tribe's Curse from Skyward Sword which outright confirms Link and Zelda would be forever trapped in an endless *LOOP* of events involving Ganondorf that would ensure the same events would continue to pass for all _eternity._ This details regarding the story of Tears of the Kingdom have less to do with Nintendo fully rebooting the timeline and more so them _repeating_ the same events all over again in a new Era to keep consistency with the Lore as stated in the japanese translation of Skyward Sword.
It's a *soft* reboot not a full one.
@@MuljoStpho It's not a full reboot. Similar shit happened is all. It's like poetry, it rhymes. 2 Gannondorfs tricked 2 Kings and 2 imprisoning wars happened. 1 Mastersword with Fi in it. All the callback armors and locations and stuff.
Your making really loose connection in the second half of the last paragraph for comparison's sake too.
Personally I don't mind too much as it will let the next generation of devs that will soon enough be in charge of the Zelda team have a blank-ish canvas to paint on and still throw in some homages to the past.
at 17:05 there's a shrine from totk, but that was in a memory so shouldnt that not be there?
and at 20:48 / 20:43 you can see sonias hand has the triforce also the master sword has the triforce on it. AND in whatever tear of the dragon 17:05 is i think there is a triangle that raurus hand is in, also sonia tells zelda to put her hand like she does on rauru. 3 people, the triangles of the triforce??
AND you can kinda see that at 1:50 raurus 3rd eyeballs eyelash is golden just like the light dragon; as well as some of the light dragons pattern / hair with raurus.
ofc this is just me being me with theories
The shrines existed back during Rauru's rule as a way of sealing off evil. Could be that during a Calamity or some other unspecified event, that the temples go underground or disappear until the events modern day totk
@@Cometstarlight ohhh, maybe when zelda went back in time aka before botw she told rauru to hide those shrines or smt? or she told rauru "when a brave swordsman named link will come, show him the shrines". something like that lol
Also I doubt we’ve ever seen the zonai mention hylia, how would they name the kingdom hyrule if there’s no hylia that they know
I like to think that so much time has passed that history and events keep repeating itself. This series is an endless loop after all.
Nintendo not bothering to fill up the history of Gorons doesn't mean they didn't have an interest in history or had historians. The Skyward Sword Gorons you have featured (Gorko and Golo), have been described as archeologists interested in History in the very same game. Don't intend to nitpick, but this was bothering me. (another minor nitpick would be you not mentioning Fokka or Fokkeru who more closely match BotW/TotK Rito, but eh that's fine).
Fair point
my headcannon is that the Gorons did not evolve because they are perfect. Nothin to worry about except rollin around and eating tasty rocks.
@@mrbiscuits001 they even get into Gerudo town 🤣
Perfection incarnate
Simple, because if it was it retcons the timelines. 30+ years of video game lore, and culture wasted.
Similarly, Zelda cannot be a direct descendant of Raruu and Sonia because if the Zelda got her light and time powers from them, it retcons every Zelda in the timeline that had time and light powers. Especially OOT Zelda, as she displayed both light and time powers by producing the light arrows, helping during the final battle by holding Ganon with her light powers, and then BREAKING THE CYCLE OF REINCARNATION IN THE ADULT TIMELINE by using her time powers to send Link back in time with the the Ocarina as a catalyst.
Great vid. Subbed.
This theory resonates with me more than anything!!!!!!!
Rarru: We were the ones who founded Hyrule last time I checked.
Me: NOT SCIENTIFICALLY POSSIBLE!
Edit: I never believed that it was reboot but people were down playing my observations for the simple reasons of their wants, they told me to basically shut up and accept it but I never will.
@methodius--9405 *Soft* reboot proven by the book "Creating a Champion" and written Lore spread across the world of Tears of the Kingdom.
I would advice you to stop spreading misinformation for it's simply not true as per the _evidence_ found in the game.
@methodius--9405 Lol okay i'll blindly take your _argumentless,_ totally Lore-inconsistent conclusion that goes against the massive evidence found within 2 games saying otherwise. 👌
@methodius--9405 ¿What? Barely understood what you just said and didn't manage to grasp the _content_ of the comment.
@methodius--9405 Oh okay then... that settles it very much right there with the fact that the lattest 2 games are *canon* to the past timelines as a _soft reboot._ Glad we could agree on the matter.
For a timeline merge to happen it would need two things someone that knows that there’s a timeline split (which would be normally impossible) and some sort of very powerful magic more so then the tryforce itself more then the golden goddesses also due to the three timelines being so different from each other a timeline merge would’ve ended in complete chaos and disarray
Not to mention that one of the timelines in question isn’t even a split from the same timeline, rather a parallel universe.
AND that there’s absolutely nothing to gain from merging 3 very different versions of Hyrule in universe other than doing it “just because I want my Zelda games all in the same main canon!!!”
I mean, Cia canonically knows and watches over all the timelines... and by 'canonically' I mean in Hyrule Warriors canon... which is not canon.
@@AarturoSc. Cry about it.
Nice work and I actually understood all that so he’ll ya
Ok the map theory makes a ton of sense
Don't have anything witty or smart to say.
But I do agree with this and hope that is the case.
I’ve been thinking about how the timeline merger could work, and the best I can come up with starts something like the plot Hyrule Warriors.
(Just a quick heads up, this comment got way longer than I thought it would, and it is probably a mess of run on sentences, but you’ll probably still get the idea)
Some villain (possibly a reincarnation of Ganandorf) could open “gateways” to the other two timelines (or all three if this is starting in a new one) like how Cia did with the worlds/times of Skyward Sword, Ocarina of Time, and Twilight Princess. This could be in an attempt to steal the triforce from those timelines, or some other power/artifact. Then if the hero(s) lost, the gods could intervene by closing/destroying the gateways before the villain could fully complete their plan. The inhabitants of the different timelines who came through said gateways would now be stuck, and the land would be plunged into such a terrible darkness that nothing would remain of Hyrule but legends, along with a few artifacts lost to time (the master sword, and the amiibo armour/weapons from previous titles). After an extraordinary amount of time the Hylians, unable to defeat the monsters/evil, would be reduced to a much more primitive civilization, who the Zonai could eventually meet, and work with to bring peace to the land. Eventually a new kingdom would emerge with Raru as its king, taking the name of Hyrule from the kingdom of the people’s stories. Between the lack of any remaining historical evidence of this previous kingdom, and different groups telling conflicting stories of its history (since they originate from different timelines), it is assumed that this Hyrule is nothing more than myth, with Raru’s being believed to be the first true kingdom of Hyrule.
Not only does this give a way for all the races/species to actually exist in the same timeline, but it also explains why they look different from before. The smaller subset of the population that got stuck in this timeline would only have a portion of their race/species’ whole genetic diversity, causing them to evolve differently (basically a genetic bottleneck/founder effect). This is more than enough to explain the Gerudo’s different eyes and ears, and if you add hundreds/thousands of years adapting to a new environment to the mix, you’ve got an explanation for the new look of the Zora and Rito (more specifically the Rito looking much more like birds and less like humans with beaks and stuff after living in the cold mountains).
Put enough time between the merger and Raru’s Hyrule and you’ll even get an explanation for the landscape having stuff from the different timelines, since if the landscape was messed up by plopping stuff from the different timelines down in the same place, they would start to look like they fit together more and more after a long (looooong) period of natural geomorphologic processes acting on them.
The commonalities of the stories would inspire traditions, such as there being princesses named Zelda, the continued worship of Hylia, the three dragons being named after the three golden goddesses, and the image of the triforce persisting.
At some point after the Imprisoning war, the Shekah would become a very technologically advanced civilization. They would continue to advance until about 10000 years before BOTW, at which point a prophecy is discovered warning of the Great Calamity. The Sheikah begin creating the guardians and divine beasts as a preparation, and eventually a new princess Zelda is born as a reincarnation of the previous ones, while the hero’s spirit is reincarnated as a Zonai, who returns to Hyrule, rediscovers the master sword, and fights in the first calamity.
10000 years later you get the events of BOTW.
The timelines merged into one courtesy of _divine intervention_ by the 3 Golden Goddesses who *willed* the timelines into one as part of a divine "plan" of some kind. That's the only explanation that could justify the merging of timelines without arguing for convoluted, inconsistent and speculative theories to explain away the merge.
You know, this vid together with the complimentary vid of Wiz Catches Lightning helped me make sense of the discrepancies between Zelda before and Zelda after BotW. The time convergence may actually have happened with the first Hyrule Warriors and the chaos still strange with it just mellowed out and faded to where we are now.
So, if we assume Forest and Wind might be the same we have 1. Light, 2.Forest/Wind, 3. Fire, 4. Water, 5. Spirit, 6. Lightning, 7. Shadow and 8. Time and way back, we had 8 pieces of the Trifoce to collect. Nice nod to Zelda 1 and Wind Waker by extension.
Now, if we put together that Zelda actually got the same secret stone Zonai-Rauru used to have on his backhand and Ganondorf has the same used be Sonia, we get 2. Next we have 1 for Mineru, Yunobo, Riju, Sidon and Tulin to add another 5. Wonder if there might be an 8 one too (minus the 3 that would allegedly have been swallowed by Dinraal, Farosh and Naydra). Definitively matches the other seven sages though. It's interesting what you notice sometimes, even if it is late.
If I could LIKE this video twice, I would. Straight facts and logic, and bullseyes to points.
Great video. I've felt like this is the only explanation that makes any sense. I was willing to believe Raaru when he said he was first until they brought out the Rito Sage. The Rito screwed that all up. This video puts everything I believe into the best set of words and examples.
I’m still not convinced the rito in BotW are the same rito from WW. If they were surely they’d have at least some reference to the zora sapphire or the WW rito in general.
The BotW zora have the story of Ruto and the sapphire is everywhere, the gorons have the statues of the past great gorons and the ruby logo, the Gerudo have tridents Ganondorf and their symbol. The BotW rito don’t have anything like that except for the rito village theme being dragon roost’s and Van Medoh. But music can’t always prove correlation and the shiekah would have named Vah Medoh, not the rito
At least I can’t think of anything they have in common, I’d love to hear something that does link the two
@@peanutbutter6720 so, there's a different set of Rito that existed before WW, went extinct or disappeared, and then reappeared when the WW Rito disappeared?
@@Mr.Smiley_J could be. It wouldn’t be the first time a race in Zelda hasn’t been seen even though they should exist in the world somewhere. And we’ve seen major settlements of different races outside of Hyrule. That’s the only reason the zora would still exist if these are the same two groups of Rito anyways.
Plus Tabantha is a frontier, and a region we don’t get to explore in depth in most games, it could be that they’ve been in the cold northwest the whole time and we just never encountered them.
“Rito” could just be a word for bird men in general and the two races were mistakenly thought to be the same. I mean, the WW Rito can’t even fly without Vahloo, where the BotW ones are less men with wings and more humanoid birds with mastery of flight and the wind. They’re just too different for me to be convinced they’re the same group.
@@Mr.Smiley_J “Disappeared and then reappeared” That’s going on the assumption that BotW/TotK happen after TWW, which isn’t confirmed.
@@WindMageMaster so, finding the tunic of the hero of the winds doesn't help with that assumption?
You don’t need the timelines to converge. You just need a long enough amount of time that it becomes unclear which timeline we are seeing. It could be any of the three. No convergence needed; just enough time
I don't necessarily like the inevitable result on all branches being the same somehow. But the idea of any sort of "convergence", magically mashing three worlds that have developed in three very different directions back into one somehow, is just simply stupid and wrong as far as I'm concerned.
@@MuljoStpho yep there’s no mechanism in physics or even in fantasy for divergent timelines to be woven back together.
It’s being put out by career-interested tubers like this who speak to a small captive audience who desperately want a neat and tidy timeline. There isn’t one. Nintendo didn’t nurture this timeline, and the timeline was a retcon anyway.
I love this theory!
Interesting Video And Theory.
Yo WIZ! haha I settled down to watch this and didn't even realize you were part of this vid. So cool man!
Great video guys! Tons of questions bother me at night when thinking about this timeline. Where'd the cats go? They were in every timeline in one form or another, so where are they? Why are Kotake and Koume in TotK memories? And why do they have the "new" pointed ears, but the old green skin tone? The way I've been seeing the post-BotW timeline, is that all the past games exist in this space of Legend. The histories have been re-told so many times and for so long, that the true history doesn't even really exist in past games. The splits never happened, they (like the games within them) only represent various different re-tellings of the past, but not a true account. It's the only way I'll get any sleep haha
Regarding the lack of cats i can only give one answer: Nintendo was lazy and chose not to add cats into the game's world due to them barely adding anything to the environment that would enrich the experience the way dogs and other animals do hence why they were ultimately left out of the game.
As for Koume and Kotake appearing in the memories that's also simple: they are _reincarnations_ of their past selves similar to Ganondorf after he himself reincarnated in Four Swords Adventures. This current Koume and Kotake are the newest incarnations of the same characters. The reason why they have long pointed ears is because of their Gerudo "heritage" after spending thousands of years living in Hyrule to the point that the Golden Goddesses decided to "evolve" their ears so as to allow them to be closer to "The Gods". The dark-green color of their skins can be easily explained as the 2 women indulged in black magic and sorcery which only _corrupted_ their skins.
Good to see you over here BPX!
In other words; the writers ignored massive amounts of previous information and simply created a story that completely contradicts the preset history of Hyrule and the established time-line. Why am I not surprised?
I think this goes beyond what simple ignorance could bring about. At some point Aonuma must've noticed that fans arguing with each other kept people talking about his games longer, so now he actively goes out of his way to provide contradictory information to keep the conversation going. And before you dismiss this as a conspiracy theory, remember that the writers of the Simpsons did the same thing with the state that Springfield was in. Eventually providing enough contradictory evidence to rule out all 50 states.
Interesting theory! It works pretty well but when would the original founding of hyrule take place?
Oh your right, thanks for bringing that up. And yes nobody new Kotake the witch (green eyes) Blue Gemstone was of the same Race MajoraS Mask Tribe.
To add to your theory. The BOTW Temple of Time is in pristine condition 100 years ago in AOC, making it newer than the OoT/TP Temple of Time in ruins.
Zelda Encyclopedia states that OoT Ganondorf was the first and explicitly not born between SS, MC, and FS.
And finaly TOTK states its version of Hyrule Castle was undamaged for eons in Gandorf's profile and a monument beneath the castle, while the OoT and TP castles were clearly damaged.
Age of Calamity is no longer canon as proven by Zelda creating a "time loop" which prevents the events of Breath of the Wild from been altered without causing a paradox which halts the loop due to Zelda not grabbing Rauru's time stone *exactly* as she does at the start of Tears of the Kingdom. If Terrako stops the Calamity, Zelda doesn't get sealed for 100 years, if Zelda doesn't get sealed for 100 years she doesn't visit Ganondorf's cave 5+ years later and if she doesn't visit Ganondorf's cave 5+ years later the Imprisioning War won't happen allowing Ganondorf to defeat Rauru without Zelda's meddling thus _erasing_ the Breath of the Wild timeline from existence.
I’m pretty sure every one of those buildings has been rebuilt multiple times
@@javiervasquez625 It's story isn't canon, but its visual structural designs of undestroyed Hyrule are. Hence why we know 100 years ago the Temple of Time is intact.
@@Luxembourgish I know about the structure's undamaged state as shown in Age of Calamity as i too played the game yet what i'm going for with i what i said is that we don't need rely on Age of Calamity for explanation regarding the Temple of Time's structural integrity prior to the 100 year gap leading to the events of Breath of the Wild as the game already has dialogues provided by Rhoam which infer the Temple was destroyed during the Calamity of 100 years making Age of Calamity's reuse of assets _redundant_ for use as evidence of anything. Wether Nintendo reused an undamaged map for the game's gameworld shouldn't be seen as evidence when the original game already gives said information in the first place.
My question is how does the timelines merge? Is it Zonai magic? Or is it yet another split? There's a potential timeline split in Skyward Sword. You obliterate Demise in the present, and then go back to the past and defeat him in one on one combat. By defeating Demise in the past, you basically change history. So, if Demise was defeated in the past and the Hylians were still up in the sky, the time period where Link defeated Demise would be very different from the current timeline we have now. The Hylians in the sky eventually evolve into Zonai because all of them can harness the power of the Triforce. Remember, the Triforce is still in the sky during this time. What's stopping a Zonai from entering Sky Keep and getting the Triforce? In this timeline split, the Rito are not Zoras evolved. They're evolved Loftwings. The Ritos in BotW and TotK look very similar to Loftwings in SS, or like actual birds. The Parella evolve into the Rito regardless of which timeline they go into. The Kokori evolve into the Korok. Now, the Zonai could see the other timelines, and they wanted to transport into one of them at any given moment, but the experiment goes wrong and it ends up fusing the 4 timeline splits together. This only leaves very few of the various races from all timelines left, especially the Zonai since they were closest to the blast. Only a male and female Zonai survive, and they give birth to Mineru and Rauru. Eventually, they made their way down to the ground, and they found other races, like the Hylians, Zoras, Ritos, and Gerudo. We know Rauru marries Sonia, a Hylian, to form Hyrule. I think that's the only way all of this makes any sense.
I think it has something to do with the goddess of time from Majora's Mask
Someone made a wish w😮ith the Triforce, maybe? Raaru, for example, may have used it in an attempt to restore the Zonai and instead "civilized" Hyrule (spitballing here).
Sure, seems a cop-out, but somebody could've used the Triforce to change history/merge the timelines (like Mortal Kombat 9 & moving forward), resulting in a totally new timeline.
The answer is rather simple: _divine intervention_ caused by the Golden Goddesses who were already responsible for the creation of the 3 timelines in order to represent each individual goddess: Adult for Nayru (Wisdom), Child for Farore (Courage) and Downfall for Din (Power). It is safe to assume that just as the Golden Goddesses were able to create 3 timelines representative of each one of them so were they able to magically unify them into a single one again via an extended _timeskip_ of _thousands_ of years which ensured the Era of the Wild would take so far into the future of each timeline that the 3 Hyrules last seen in Spirit Tracks, Four Swords Adventures and Zelda 2 The Adventure of Link would all be indistinguishable from one another. Basically put: the goddesses did some time skipping shenanigans across all the 3 timelines so that time and space would rearrange each specific timeline until becoming the Hyrule shown in Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom.
Triforce wish could have merged the timelines easily
@@oddlazdo But it _wasn't_ the Triforce who merged them as there's no way for the people of either of the 3 timelines to _know_ the timelines were split appart. The only anser for the unification are the Golden Goddesses who WANTED the timelines to merge into one once more.
The main question posed is where the heck do the zonai come from then and how is hyrule so regressed if it wasn't at the beginning of the timeline
Totk also completely breaks the lore that botw tried to implement. Calamity Ganon is a plague on the kingdom of hyrule every 10k years. But we've seen that Calamity Ganon is made of malice after Daddydorf was sealed under ground. The ancient hero depicted in the botw tapestry and who was confirmed to have existed due to the armor in totk, the ancient hero was a Zonai who fought against Calamity Ganon. But in totk Rauru and his sister are the last Zonai and the game acknowledges that they are the last. So how can the ancient hero exist after Gannondorf is sealed?
The only possible explanation is that Rauru and his sister secretly went "Alabama mode", but I highly doubt that's the case.
Also it's possible that the timelines merge, and I used to believe that as well. But the evidence isn't really concrete. The only evidence we have is in game armor. But that armor could only be a reference, just look at the remakes. Nintendo clearly isn't afraid to put in references for fun, even if it isn't accurate to the lore. So we can't say for certainty that the armor in game like the dark link set and the others are lore friendly.
The only other references left is Zelda's inauguration speech for Link becoming a champion in botw. Her references are skyward bound, adrift in time and in twilight. Skyward sword is history in all timelines, Oot is also history in all timelines, so those two don't count. And lastly Twilight.... the interloper war happened before Oot. They were sealed away into the Twilight realm for trying to get the triforce. Most likely by the the Hyrulian royal family, which is tasked with protecting the Triforce. So we can clearly see that all "evidence" is either a reference that Nintendo added for fun to surprise us fans, and things that are canonically history in all possible timelines.
Now....
We do now for a fact that this Zonai named Rauru, one of the last Zonai, founded the current iteration of the Hyrule kingdom. There is only one possible timline where that is even remotely possible..... The Downfall timeline. The last game in that timeline is Zelda 2, and we can clearly see that, that version of hyrule is gone. Now, there is a possibility that one of the other timelines has the kingdom eventually get destroyed, but that heavy af speculation. Plus that kinda invalidates the whole point of the downfall timeline.
So that's one point for botw and totk being in the downfall timeline. The next point is obvious.... Lynels! Lynels canonically only exist in the downfall timeline. We also have actual evidence of this being true. Zelda 1.
With all that in mind, there is no doubt that botw and totk, are squarely, far into the future of the downfall timeline.
The only hiccup is that bit with the ancient hero that I explained earlier. Nintendo kinda messed there.
Someone might bring up the fact that the rito haven't been seen in the downfall timeline so far. And that's completely true, but I believe that can be overlooked, because the history of the destroyed Hyrule from Zelda 1 and 2, is so far in the past that Zonai Rauru thinks he founded Hyrule. Plus he's the 2nd last of his kind, which obviously had hundreds, even thousands of years to develop into a highly advanced society, only to slowly fade away.
So with all that passage of time. It's reasonable to assume that an offshoot of Zora split off from the main group, and eventually evolved into the Rito. Just like how the Yiga split off from the Sheikah.
I feel autistic trying to understand the eyes and ears evolution
No no you're good. TLDR Gerudo started with round ears and topaz eyes (OoT). Eventually they change to have round ears and green eyes (BotW/TotK). So because the Gerudo in TotK PAST have green eyes and pointed ears, it has to be after OoT
I'm autistic and have no idea why you would comment this? What are you implying about a people with autism?😢
@@TheJadeyCat It was an insensitive attempt at being funny, at the expense of actual autistic people...
@@thinkingatmaxvolume1992 so they went from having round ears, to pointy ears and back to round ears? Why?
@@DrakusRecords They went from round to pointed. TotK Ganondorf kept his round ears and topaz eyes because hes based on OoT Ganondorf
Suspiciously silent about Ganondorf's pointed ears in Wind Waker.
The theory Ive heard about his ears in Future OoT/ TP/ WW is that the triforce of power pointed his ears
Well, with Fujibayashi's and Aonuma's most recent interview, this theory gets even more solid
Definitely, I saw that too. Still not 100% confirmed but it does strengthen it.
Based on a recent interview with aonuma this theory looks even more plausibile. He said that a possibility that the founding of hyrule in skyward sword was "retconned" was that there was a history of destruction before the memories in totk. Meaning that there could've been many refoundings and cycles of destruction.
Secrets stones can be explained in terms of the triforce, where it is likely that they draw out the powers of the triforce dwelling in both the heroes and ganondorf
My only issue is that the zonai were not explained. Where do they come from then if just they suddenly just appeared after so long?
OK so what I have been thinking, is there is a merging of the timelines yes, (likely a final wish from the triforce), but also an additional timeline merges, which is Raoru's, that has always existed outside of the others, and is now being added to ours. That way he can always have been "the first king" in his timeline. Also when he says first king, does he really mean "original" or were there multiple kings in his timeline?
I like the theory that the game takes place way in the future and the past is basically repeating itself and starting over. I think of it as our world where we've had civilizations get so advanced beyond our imagination and they just dissappear or experience a cataclysm and we start again, we call it a great reset. Maybe there was a point in time where Ganon or demise managed to destroy hyrule and the world. And we're playing thru not so new events cause if the curse was never broken then ofcourse eventually a new villain and heroes would be born. But I also think Nintendo doesn't care about timeliness and are just giving us our favorite franchise with our favorite characters. Kinda like how black mirror or love,death, robots is. You can basically start anywhere in the series and not miss out on much.
Finished up a playthrough of OoT yesterday, noticed something kind crazy - when you defeat Ganon and it cuts to Rauru in the temple of time, he has a little monologue where he specifically calls upon the Ancient Creators of Hyrule to seal Ganon. I'm curious if this was one of the places where they took inspiration for the idea of the Zonai, could be nothing... But the fact that it is Rauru who says it really got my attention.
Be right back music so good
damn the most convincing so far. it didn't feel like the developers were trying to place totk in between any of the previous games before botw so this is likely what they'd agree with
I've been thoroughly convinced of this view of the timeline already, but I want to mention a potential point against the Gerudo and their ears - if TOTK's flashbacks are the earliest point we see after SS, it could be argued that simply not enough time has passed to allow for their epigenetics to have developed round ears. The working theory is after all that they share the same common Skyloftian ancestors as Hylians, Sheikah, and other groups like the Interlopers/dark tribe etc.
So they may have started with the pointed ears as with the rest, then lost them over centuries following Ganon after Demise's curse, then regained them after disavowing him at a later point.
I am still confused but thanks!
Honestly I think that the totk took place before skyward sword. Because in skyward sword, hylia lifted up pieces of Hyrule to become skyloft, so she could protect her people and fight the war going on.
I'm thinking that the Hyrule before hylia lifted the land up was when Rauru was the king. It makes sense to me because we know Rauru and his wife had a kid due to Zelda and Rauru's wife (I'm sorry I forgot her name lol) are from the same bloodline.
I'm guessing that unknown kid would be hylia, and because of the 2 powers combining when was born, and the zonai's strange power, Hylia would be had goddess-like powers.
Another reason I think it takes place before skyward sword is the secret stones. In the cutscene wheb the sages get appointed, it's the stones that turn them into the sages. And I'm thinking that those were the first sages.
And then there's just the advanced tech of the zonai. Which also has a very similar theme to the little robots and their theme in skyward sword (zonai created the robots and possible relation to the time shift stones?).
The type of powers and tech the zonai posses haven't been seen in any other games before totk (that in aware of). Except for some similarities in skyward sword, which was the first in the timeline.
Then explain demises curse in skyward sword. Why would ganondorf apear before the curse even took hold. And how dose ganondorf even exist, it is suggested that all humans except the sheka came from skyloft and that the gerudo are probably an offshoot of hylians that apeard later. Also the robots in the lynaru desert were built by the thunderdragon that you needed to revive.
To be fair, calling the ancient TOTK sages, sages, is more title only versus actual Destiny role the OOT / TWW sages were.
Still have the head-canon that Hyrule Warriors was canon, and the timelines were all merged back together because of it.
I had the same idea about the placement of botw and totk in the timeline after a merging of all previous timelines.
Saw both your videos and I think you left out one crucial piece of evidence:
Ganondorf/Ganon could not have been reincarnated as long as we was still imprisoned below Hyrule Castle.
No other Zelda game featuring another iteration of him can be placed between totk past and totk present.
Did someone noticed that we don't have any clothes or weapons from the Four Sword Era? No four sword, no Ezlo hat or references to the minish.
Those games are always pretty much doing their own thing/following their own story.
I kinda think about there being a secret zelda game that happened that combined the timelines so that their world has a ganon in it
Moldugas exist in a part of the gerudo desert that we have not explored in any of the games. It seems to me the only parts of the gerudo desert we have explored was from where current gerudo town is and all the way to the arbiter grounds and the entrance of gerudo desert. Even in breath of the wild the gerudos don't normally explore where the moldugas live. Then I could only assume that normally that part of the desert would be off limits.
The only issue I have is how ancinet Hyrulean in TOTK have those big ponted ears.
great video good job.
It is so nice to hear someone else pronounce it "Oh-carina"
Bravo I think you figured this out man. Not only did you place everything you explained away with logic all inconsistencies. Wow man you got it. You even made it so that the reboot is also possible but doesn't disagree with the Cannon wow man.
I'll add something for you. Before TOTK in theory the Zelda right before would be Zelda 2 on NES
At the end of that game link attained the triforce to wake up his Zelda not only that but the land of Hyrule was also brought to peace.
Now it doesn't actually says he wished for anything. But what if he did? What if his wish for peace was what ultimately birthed the history and time of the zonai and a timeline merger. And that perhaps there was peace untill Ganandorf began to act up which is what we ultimately played.