I had this happen with a problem player i booted a month ago. He was a loot goblin/murderhobo, and would just rush in headfirst to all the enemies. Then when he was only one visible, all the enemies would focus and hit him. He'd then complain "why am I being targeted all the time?"
Some kids literally don't develop to the point of understanding that others might expect of them the same behavior/respect they expect of others. And sadly, sometimes they keep that attitude well into adulthood.
This is the sort of thing I had to deal with growing up, being told we had to give the slightly loony learning-disabled bully "a chance". The joke is on me, as I found out this is how teachers decided to faust the problem onto other children and be lazy, instead of actually taking the job of being the adult seriously.
Just wanna say... your comment currently has 666 likes, the kid on this story is call Damien and is the antagonist in this horror story... funny coincidences XD
Honestly, if I was a “DM for hire,” THIS is why I’d make it a nonnegotiable part of my service that I have a recording device/program active during sessions. Not just to cover my ass if the shit hits the fan, but also to report to the parents/guardians if the child is showcasing alarming behavior.
Actually, that’d be INSANELY difficult to do with minors. Like, holy fuck how the hell are you planning on managing that?? We cant even get cameras in SCHOOLS to record this behaviour due to privacy and safety concerns; and you somehow think parents will trust you with their kids face, identity and actions in recording like that?? No, that’s subject to WAY too much abuse. Really the parents/guardians should just, be there? To witness it and all? Supervision while online? Is that a foreign concept now? Im like, born right in the 2000 so zoomer and all but apparently not enough if the absence of parents around while online is a common thing.
@@aliasilver_636 actually it's much easier to do that with private companies like the dm in the post seems to work with. The reason why it's so difficult to get cameras in schools is due to federal privacy regulations, but if the all the parents of the players sign off on the sessions being recorded that'd likely be the end of it. The hardest part would just be getting all the parents to agree to that.
@@Nerobyrne Yeah, I honestly would be unsurprised if the parents were the reason or at least the main reason why he was (getting away with) acting like this since that sadly seems more likely than legitimate mental issues. Not that it couldn't be both, but I just find it *highly* unlikely that whatever paternal figures he has don't already have some inkling of what he's like, especially with almost everyone stuck at home for a year plus.
I was very much like Damian when I was his age. Not in the psychopathic extreme but I also had these quick, extreme emotional changes. I was later diagnosed with bi-polar disorder and finished therapy last year. I do not want to excuse his behavior. It is up to his parents or other responsible adults to give him the support he needs and I really hope he gets it. This child could just be really sick.
Yup, I went through the same. Hopefully someone realizes soon. Because unchecked, the behavior is going to get him into problems a lot bigger than DnD.
While I agree he needs help, it doesn't change the fact that the kids a psychopath in the making considering how obsessive he was with killing everything, I can see this little pissant play Undertale on the Genocide Route and genuinely think it's the best ending
@@TigerW0lf I had a similar obsession with violence and a quick temper as a child because I was trying to understand the violence I had experienced and no one gave me the tools. Its not a sure sign of psychopathy and violence in children is a sign of a different problem the majority of the time
I'm only part way through, but, assuming the story is legit, it's odd to me that the DM didn't pause the game during the jailbreak and have a frank talk with the kids about player control over characters, or else talk privately to the one kid who was told to sacrifice his character. I get wanting to keep immersion, but I also feel like ANYONE, including the DM, has a right to drop character during play to clarify things, or do an emotional wellness check.
Yeah that part threw me off as well especially since the OP said he was an experienced DM. When Damien first said to the other kid to take the hit for him, or about how "on your next turn you take the hit" the DM should have stopped it right there and explained that's now how it works. He just sort of let it happen. Absolutely should have stopped it when Damien threatened the other character (or maybe he was actually threatening the kid) about sacrificing their character. I'm scared to think what the DM lets pass in his games if he lets stuff like this slip from a kid.
@@IottiPH I dunno about you, but when I was 8, if anyone (especially an adult) tried to talk to me about anything, I instantly tuned out and daydreamed during the entire "talk".
@@HamsterPants522 That's why RPG is a good tool for that. They will be fairly punished if they don't listen and learn. It's a good way to teach to listen to people.
i was confused too. He’s a pretty poor DM. When you’re the only one above the age of 10 amongst children as well, act like an adult and teach the kid a lesson. My assumption here is that DM is just scared of being mean to a kid or something, or letting the game die cuz there’s only 3 ppl. but even so, they shouldn’t be DMing a game if they can’t even attempt to handle a literal 8 year old and no DND is better than bad one, especially when he’s allowing a child to bully other children. Protect the other kids at LEAST.
@@HamsterPants522 parents being sane is a best case scenario worst case op would need to get cps involved, either way, that kid has a seeming pile of mental issues and is already on the way to becoming a genuine sociopath
I’m no professional, but I took note to how Damien constantly blurted out “I’m going to kill your mother” or something along the lines of that. Now, kids are very impressionable. If they see a behavior that they find particularly cool or funny, they will milk the crap out of that behavior until someone else tells them to stop. This is double-so for simple phrases. I suspect that Damien, at some point in his life, heard the phrase about mother killing or whatever from…somewhere, whether it be an adult show or from someone close to him. Thus, Damien found the phrase super cool and edgy, and adopted the phrase if only to feed his own ego. Might be a long stretch tho, idk.
Thats, like, child psych101 my dude! Definitely has a lot to do with it, and it gives us a hint as to where to look into first. Home life is likely very rough for them, and, to address the other comment here, likely is at least partially if not fully behind this DEFINITE mental illness. What it is, literally nobody can actually know unless they sat down with him and properly tested him. People can guess it’s bipolar or BPD or just a pure trauma response, but really we cant know.
What a nice crustacean, he probably participates in raves and perhaps he divulges in the readings of improper behavior involving improvised role playing table top games.
I CANNOT GET OVER THE IRONY The Kid that feels personally victimized by the frankly light consequences of his malicious actions really said: "I want a WILD MAGIC SORCERER, CLERICS ARE TRASH!" That subclass is expressly for those that enjoy feeling like the dice are bullies.
I’m sitting here wondering if OP informed the location he was working for of the kids behavior. Obviously the kid needs therapy and the other two will probably need it to get out of that toxic dependency.
There was an update recently - Damien's second character got killed, so he threw a tantrum in session and later spammed OP with texts about how the game is unfair, how he's being targeted, etc. OP showed the texts to the company owner, so hopefully they'll do something now
If a kid is acting like this I am gonna have to start checking everything about my players because I do not want my players acting like the kid in this story
@@Deefry yeah I'm pretty sure the kids was just born with all the knowledge he has now. That's how it works right?. I like how you get played by the idea that only things you don't like are "learned" cuse you think everything else most be normal if you don't think or act that way. You aint immune to learned behavior
I'm 99% sure that Damien wasn't referring to their characters when he said 'I will kill you,' and that he definitely should not be allowed to meet up with either of the other two kids in person.
This story reminds of that one factoid that psychologists won't test teens for psychopathy because most teens would register as psychopaths. I'm probably misremembering that.
Teens have brains which haven't matured enough to control their emotions or understand long-term consequences of their actions as well as adults, plus their hormone balance is mess. So it doesn't need much to make teens behave like adults with (mild) antisocial personality disorder.
@@clarehidalgo I know, but wasn't talking about Damien. Was answering to claim from factoid about that psychologists don't test teens for "psychopathy" because most teens would meet criterions for it, which Conner Scott wrote about.
I was playing Elden Ring while listening to this in the background. And just as Critcrab mentioned Elden Ring a giant crab rose up from behind and murked me. I guess god finds funny ways to mess with my head.
Damien gives me manipulator vibes, especially with the "I'm dead, my characters dead" thing. It's like the thing of having a toxic ex say they're going to kill or hurt themselves just to get your attention/sympathy. Kid needs help now before it develops into a major problem.
@@agencymenace1090 I’m reminded of one time on Reddit a babysitter was saying a baby was trying to manipulate her because it smiled at her when it wanted something
@@blakchristianbale like that's absolute insanity and the comment above is absolute insanity too. Kids do things for attention, but that doesn't mean they're abusive or manipulators. To me it sounded like that kid was panicked things didn't go his way or the way he wanted things to go, and he was having big emotions for a little body. Like did the original commenter ignore the fact the kid is 8 YEARS OLD? That's like a 3rd grader, of course those little bastards don't know how to handle themselves or their emotions right because they barely are developed!
@@agencymenace1090 exactly. Everybody acting as if this kid is going to be a serial killer is disgusting. 8 is still so young, and it just seems like he lacks a bit of the emotional maturity typical of his age (his behaviour reminds me of stuff I see 5 year olds I work with do) but at the end of the day he’s only going to learn if somebody explains why his actions are wrong and how he can be a better friend to the people he’s playing with. If anything he sounds more like a stereotypical spoilt only child rather than a future manipulator
@@caoimhedoesstuff9293 I could also see him being a neglected child who was never given the time to learn emotional maturity. Honestly I recognize parts of myself because I was neglected to hell and back, but I'm not out here skinning cats like people are acting like this kid is gonna be.
I might have told this story before, but: One of the kids I DM for (sixth grade tho, so a bit older than eight) killed a goblin once, wasn't satisfied with only that, so he cut him to pieces and stomped him to a pulp, then left the goblin mush on the side of the road for everyone to see. The day before that he threatened and almost killed a barkeep because the barkeep asked him to not drink stuff from other bars in his tavern. He also didn't participate in any fights, instead either running away, or looting stuff in the room they were in. He was supposed to be lawful good.
@@wojciechniemirski1782 I usually treat in game offenses with in game consequences. He got thrown in jail for a day and had to pay a very hefty fine for threatening the barkeep and when the townspeople saw the goblin pulp (and guessed who it was from), got kicked out of the town permanently. He also lost his lg alignment. Before I could think of consequences for him never participating in fights, though, I had to throw him out of the group for out of game offenses.
@@keyboardkomments9152 you definitely made the right call. But in-game, maybe just don't award experience to a player who isn't participating? Or start planning encounters with highly mobile enemies that will chase down players on the outskirts.
I just realized that D&D is quite a good way to teach kids (in a fun way) about actions and consecuences, working steadily and patiently towards a goal, good teamwork spirit and how to tolerate frustration.
I'm not any sort of professional DM, GM or anything so I can't say with any level of certainty if this would have even been an option for the DM in this story. But none the less. The MOMENT that kid threatened another player. Muted. BANNED! I don't care that he's 8 years old, actions have consequences. I don't care if he understands why this happened or not, because it's long past time he did! I would also then take some time, as much as needed, to tell the other two that while we will continue to play but I need them to first try and understand (as best they could, and then get back to the game) that "no D&D is better than bad D&D". Basically if they don't want to do what someone like that is telling them to, under threat no less, they don't have to. The game is here for everyone to have fun and not just one person.
tbf for little kids like that you need to explain that it's wrong and that there will be consequenses in a calm and serious manner (especially when there likely weren't any consequenses before you joined as dm) before you insta ban them (and maybe even just be as light as to make sure he never gets what he wants that way), but the dm enabling this behaviour and not taking nearly enough action against it is so stupid and shitty. Even if you are just there to get paid it wouldn't work in your favour at all to let this kid act the way he does. Still though, you better make sure he knows exactly in detail why this happened because else he can make you just be that stupid adult that banned him while he was doing nothing wrong without lying. Which isn't only bad for his future bahaviour, but also the other kids in the group (and your professionalism). If I was there as a kid and he'd be insta banned for acting out in that way I'm sure I'd be scared to make a mistake or get mad (in an unhealthy way) especially in a situation when the others are manipulated to the point where they'd sacrifice their characters for the lil psycho at a dime. gotta be more patient, consistent and guiding with kids
As much as I agree with many comments about Damien, I want to say, "What the hell DM?" This happened over multiple sessions, but at no point did DM go to teachers, or parents? Especially with Damien controlling other kids, and with many, many, *MANY* threats of violence? The kid is obviously unwell, and should not be playing, possibly not even interacting with other kids. Yet the DM just... Does nothing? Only stopped, what, the third or fourth time Damien told the other kids what to do? That's actually pretty disgusting on the part of the DM.
How is that “disgusting”? Neglectful, sure. Irresponsible, definitely. But remember Hanlon’s Razor. Working with kids is difficult and sometimes you just don’t know what to do.
Throughout this entire story I heard no mention of Damien's parents being contacted to go "Yo folks, your kid is a freaking psychopath who wants to get other players to kill themselves for him. He's kicked from the group and get him to a bloody therapist!"
This one hit home for me. I am also a paid DM who focuses on kids afterschool campaigns, and just celebrated my 5 year pro anniversary back in january. Long post coming up. The real monster in this story is the original DM, who must have seen this behavior and did not handle it. Here's the thing: when you tell kids that D&D is game where you can do anything, you can bet that some of them will test that to the extreme. Kids are constantly being told what they can and can't do, and when they have the chance to call the shots for a bit, some of them really go for it. This by itself doesn't make them a bad kid. Even the complaints over the low dice rolls are likely rooted in their own sense of control. D&D is often the one chance some of these kids have to feel in control of themselves, and while it is super annoying - especially for those of us that don't have a still-developing sense of self - it still isn't a huge warning flag by itself. Both of these things can be handled best by a session zero talk to explain what the game is, what it isn't, and how to be a good player. This is one area where the OP may have dropped the ball. At no point during the tale did the OP say they explained to the kids how they expect the players to behave. Maybe OP did and just didn't mention it, but it doesn't sound like it. I always discuss with every group my expectations. The biggest rule I have (especially for kids) is this: Do not be the reason another player has a bad session. I also have very strict PVP rules. 1. PVP is not just combat. 2. I decide what is and is not PVP. 3. If something happens that I determine to be PVP, we pause and take a blind annonymous vote. Only if the vote is unanimous will I allow the PVP action, and even then, I will sometimes lie if I think it will ruin a kid's day. The manipulative aspect of what this kid did (telling other kids to die for him) easily would have met my definition of PVP. Other things that could have stopped this sooner are not allowing the kid to participate and contacting the parents. Anyone who runs a game for kids must have a way to contact the parents, and this should have been brought up with them sooner. "I know Damien loves D&D, and I admire his enthusiasm, but we are having a hard time because he is interfering with the other players' good time. How can we curb this and still give him the game he loves?" You could even ask the kid directly. "Damien, this is not how we play d&d, because it is making it not fun for others at the table - including me as the DM. What else do you like about the game? How can we focus on that?" It is especially hard for kids in the 8-10 year old category because they are usually not old enough to grasp the idea of empathy. That doesn't usually happen for people until around 12, which is part of why I think d&d recommends "12 and up" on the box. When a player is too immature to use empathy as a self-regulator for their behavior, you have to establish a clear framework of what is and isn't acceptible behavior for them. "These kinds of things are ok. These are not. You need to accept that and find your fun within this framework. As DM I will help you do that. But if you can't, then you do not get to ruin the game for anyone else at the table and will be asked to leave." Damien clearly never got that.
In some ways this is one of the more disturbing stories on this channel. Partly because of the kid's extremely alarming behaviour, but also because he clearly needs help from a professional, and it makes one worry if he's actually getting it. Maybe it's just cuz I was a kid with undiagnosed mental illness and neuro-divergence too, and this story just hits home for me. I really hope he gets the help he needs, both for his sake and for the sake of those around him.
Children sometimes scare the hell out of me, even more than adults... Why? Cause if a kid says or do something horrible, you know that it's from the heart,completely sincere, and that freaks me out. Love to hear your narration King Crab!
The DM seriously needs to get a hold of the parents of all three children. 1. To follow up with D's parents about his emotional instability, and 2. To make sure D can't actually harm Alex and the other player in real life. I have worked in child care my entire life and have had some kids that many people write off as "damaged" this is very concerning and I really hope the OP/DM reaches out to these kids outside of the game and their parents / guardians.
Everything I can say to this story is "what the feck". And also that everyone involved is a terrible person. Including the DM for just "rolling with it" every time the game was messed up by the problem player. "Hmm the kid keeps trying to be edgy, kills other players and NPCs for no reason, seems to be violently bipolar, surrounds himself with submissive "friends" just to torment them and goes absolutely against anything that roleplaying stands for...I can still work with that, SURELY he will behave THIS time"
In the DM's *possible* defense, he did say this is a job and he's getting paid for it. I'm not sure about the rules set, but he might not have a choice. Still, he should definitely be taking to his client and the kid's parents.
@@normalgamergal As the dm, he always has the choice to manage unruly characters and speak OoC with unreasonable players. He knew these kids had incorrect expectations and should have laser-focused on setting new expectations, along with reprimanding any terrible behavior that crops up. The DM was weak and deserved the players they had.
@@normalgamergal His job is being a DM though, not a child psychologist or a nanny. If the game gets disrupted so badly, it is time to stop the entire thing.
@@normalgamergal what kind of rules prevent DM getting help for problem child and protecting other children from toxic and dangerous behavior by banning problem player until they gets help they needs? What kind of rules would demand DM sacrifice other players for one problem player?
Wow, I said "possible" and people are jumping down my throat. Thanks, guys... Anyway, does the DM have a contract? Who's the DM's client? If the DM boots the kid, will he lose a contract? Was he paid in advance? Had he already spent the money on his expenses? Does he have existing issues that require the money? If he boots the kid, will he get a poor relationship with the shop which will lose him jobs down the line? Does he have dependents? Does he have to pay medical expenses? Is the kid the kid of someone important? I don't know the answers to any of these questions, but as someone who's been self-employed for years, has a dad and grandpa who were self-employed for decades, I realize that working with bad clients sometimes comes with the territory. Is this a situation where it's necessary? I don't know, but I don't pretend to, either. It's very different to do something as a hobby than it is doing something as a job. Something I'm constantly reminded people who aren't self-employed are unable to understand.
Honestly, I can't help but wonder whether the DM made any attempts to sit down with those kids (privately) to actually discuss the situation. It's my understanding that's the go to approach for trying to deal with troublesome behaviour, and the fact there was no mention of such attempts makes it seem like the DM was a bit negligent in that manner. You would also think that the DM might try to reach out to the parents of Damien to discuss his behaviour. Either they know about those problems, in which case they might have some advice or insights that could be beneficial, or they don't know about it, in which case being informed means they could seek help for the kid. There's no reason not to, really.
Stories like this are the main reason why, while it's very tempting to get paid to do something I love, I have no desire to ever become a professional dungeon master.
Nah, it's not that complicated. Just make a contract with some terms and conditions before running the game. If they break the rules - breach of contract - get a new group. You don't have to be tied down to something you feel bad about. You have no obligations beyond those you agree to.
As a volunteer DM for a local community club a few years back, i have shocking seen similar behaviour in a kid too. but in my case, what was happening is the kid was terminally ill and because of that, other kids were being nice to him by giving his character unfair benefits and access to magical items and such. it dragged on and things escalated as he began to see such treatment as his "right" and not a "privilege" because he was suffering in real life.
Sounds like parents spoil him rotten and never set any consequences for when he does bad. In fact, the way he pins shit on other kids I wouldn't be surprised if he was the same with other kids around him and his parents, completely naively let him do what he does.
Damien acts like he either has severe antisocial personality disorder, has raised "bipolarly" (at times spoiled and allowed to do anything he wants, and at other times punished with violence, basically taught that powerful one can do what they want to weaker than them) or is has grown in very unsafe enviroment, like parents (emotionally) neglecting him/not protecting him from abuse by someone else.
It's hard to say. I've seen kids who were rotten because of neglectful parents, and I've seen rotten kids who came from a great home with very loving parents who disciplined fairly. It's pointless to start trying to diagnose or shift blame, because you don't know anything about his home situation or his past. For all you know, he's just a bad kid.
@@WobblesandBean why would you assume that he's bad first though unless you just fucking hate kids. And even then, mental illness doesn't care about your bank account or how you're treated sometimes. This kid could be really struggling mentally and people are in the comments like 'best lock him away before he starts skinning cats'
When I was at a cultural center, assisting an art teacher to take care and teach kids, I found a similar case: this kid was not interested in the class, he would finish the exercises early so he could get up and start threatening other kids about "punishing" them if they didn't give him their stuff, when he was told off, he sunk in a corner with his phone... watching videos about shootings... smiling.
What I want to know is where are the parents of these kids? Why doesn't OP reach out to Damien's parents and have a serious talk with them about their kid's behavior? They're presumably the ones paying for OP's services
i honestly feel like it's the parents fault he's like this, i used to sound just like this kid and i was badly abused by my parents and neglected as a baby... i am genuinely concerned for this kid
When I was a kid, I had a "friend" who behaved in a similar manner to this. She never threatened to kill me, but with a straight face she would say things like "Buy me ice cream, now. Or I won't be your friend anymore." "Do____ or I'll go home." And shed throw tantrums toward adults or kids that stood up to her. Turned out she was being sexually abused at home, among other things. As an adult, I think it's a strong desire to exert control over someone, because they have no control at home. Younger, or 'weaker' kids their age are the only ones they can push around. If I was that DM I'd want someone to take a long hard look at Damien's home life.
Just what I was thinking. The fact that he consistently felt like he was in danger and might die even when there was little or no threat was really concerning to me. It seems like he doesn’t feel safe most of the time and in this game he can command people to protect him. If the primary method of action he gets to see in daily life is death threats, to him and others, it would make sense both of his commands to fellow players and his behavior towards the guards.
I'm 41 so I'm a have a few old-fashioned notions in my head. Like, when a kid behaves like that you alert their parents or the school counselor. Maybe I just haven't gotten with the times, but I tend to forget the game when a mental health crisis happens that results in sadism and bullying.
The fact that he got himself killed like a movie villain is the cherry on top. Gets attacked by alligators, tricks his allies into jumping in to save him while he then leaves them to die. And right in the middle of mocking their seemingly impending deaths, he realizes too late that in doing so he's alerted a horde of trolls to his position and gets ripped to shreds while our other two heroes make it out fine. It's perfect. I know the DM was trying very hard not to have the kids be wiped out by the consequences of their actions, but you can't write karma like that.
Now, I'm no child psychologist, but the fact that Daminan doesn't seem to understand consequences is scary. Ether, he is extremely spoiled and his parents let him get away with way too much or he's deeply disturbed and needs help.
Y'know, there might be an explanation for this other than "Damien's a literal psychopath". I've known kids who were *extremely* sore losers at his age. They'd avoid losing games at all costs and throw tantrums if they failed. Damien seems insecure to the point that he feels utterly worthless if he can't win at every single thing (even dice rolls determined by chance), and is so piss-scared of losing he orders his friends to take hits for him (and it's possible Alex thought he was being noble and brave by sacrificing himself, based on how gleefully he did it). He needs to learn how to have fun without being the best, which would likely be achieved through watching adults play the same game and noticing how it's not the end of the world when they struggle. As for the "kill your mother" thing, it could be Damien's just repeating a line he heard from a movie or something, and the "do this or you're dead" stuff with the other players is just bluster with no real intent behind it. It's entirely plausible for a kid with insecurity issues to put on a tough-guy facade. Might he have more serious mental problems? Sure, and it'd be wise for OP to mention this behavior to his parents or guardians regardless (keep an eye on the mood swings for sure). But I find that when dealing with kids, especially since their brains and sense of logic are so different from adults', it's beneficial to explore different potential motivations rather than jump immediately to the most sinister conclusions.
"He's going to find a way to pronounce the smiling devil emoji." That made me laugh, I'm pretty sure I know a few people that description fits like a glove. XD
@@delnagasktruman7241Ya, guess so. That kid really is a little shit though if the DM asks "Do you want to do checks?" and everyone says "Yes" and then the absolute idiot ignores them and... well I don't really feel sorry.
All of this is behavior super abnormal in a child that young. Why didn't OP contact the child's parents? The racism is certainly learned behavior, but the mood swings 100% indicate a special need - be it pediatric bipolar disorder to something else. That child needs help.
Teacher here, without the context of Damian's home culture or life if I had to figure it's not as bad as it seems. From the snapshot we get I figure Damian mainly has poor control of his emotions (emotional regulation is a skill like math or reading.) Along with struggling with social skills, I've seen kids around that age that bully since it just makes more sense to them. As for the other murder hobo tendencies, again I don't want to play family therapist with a family I will never know or meet, but if I had to guess Damian might come from an indulgent household where consequences aren't really a thing, used to almost immediate gradification, hence the impatience. As others as pointed out a session zero would have set things down along with expectations, how the DM would do things, it would let Damain and the others know what was and was not okay. I'm sure Damain, for as murder hobo-e as hes acting, is probably anxious as all get out regarding all these changes, doesn't excuse the way he treats the other players, as I always say to my students "It's okay to feel that way, but it's not okay to take it out on other people."
This story gives me some serious “deltarune weird route” vibes. I can imagine: “Kris? What are you doing? There aren’t any enemies left.” SACRIFICE YOUR SELF FOR ME “Huh? Are you ok? What did you just say?” SACRIFICE YOUR SELF FOR ME “Kris? What’s gotten into you? Let’s just go home.” SACRIFICE YOUR SELF FOR ME “I… I don’t want to do this.” SACRIFICE YOUR SELF FOR ME “KRIS! NO! stop it…” SACRIFICE YOUR SELF FOR ME
Something like that could actually make for a compelling evil-aligned character in a campaign with mostly good/evil player characters... of course, like anything else, if executed well. Like, they'd slowly convince the tiefling sorcerer that destruction is the only thing they're good for, for example, or they'd enable and urge the barbarian to give into and worsen their violent tendencies.
Did the dm ever tried talking to the kids parents saying stuff like: "hi damnian is misbeheaving and forcing the other kids to do stuff and calling them names, if you could talk to him and see whats happening, if not im afraid i will have to ask your kids to leave the table" worst case scenario you will have to give a refund to that kid, best case scenario he behaves
Let's be honest for a moment, if OP's narrative shows anything is that they NEVER tried to even talk to the kids; explain how he narrates or even the basic concepts of D&D of dice roll being purely luck, of that certain actions leading to consequences (which is common sense except for Damien). Not saying he should "parent" the kids, but they seemed to go like: -I say I'll kill his mother!! -You sure?(What a dumb kid, that will only angry the guard) -Yes! -Ok, the guard attacks you. -What?! That's unfair! -(Yeah, what else did you expect, dumb kid)
That kid is possibly one who was rarely (if ever) told "no" by his parents/guardians. If I was in the DM's shoes I would have kicked him out for good. He needs to learn there are consequences to his actions.
No no no! Why do so many people jump to in-game punishment for out-of-game problems? That is not how you fix problem players! You fix them by speaking to them OUT of game and addressing the issues there. GM needed to pause the game and talk to Damien and explain how that behavior was unacceptable at the table, and that he would not be allowed to continue to play if he was going to continue to act like that. The overwhelming majority of CritCrab stories could have been solved or prevented by a GM just putting their foot down and talking to the problem player and sorting the issue out there. Instead so many of these stories involve the GM's trying to 'teach the player a lesson' and it always, always, always just spirals into even more problems. Just like this one: the player threatened to kill the guards mother and rather than stop and sort out why that wasnt going to fly, the GM instead tries to teach the kid a lesson in-game and attempts to punish him for it. And as you can see, that fixed nothing, and just made the kid angrier and attempt to lash out even more, causing even more issues.
I like your idea but his character wasn't making the death threats (except for the "kill your mother" bit), it was his player who was telling the other players to self sacrifice. You can't punish characters for actions they technically didn't commit
Damian is absolutely that one kid in class that boasts how good he can do a cartwheel, and then cries when someone else does one better. He's focused exclusively on himself and the world needs to be about him and him alone, and anything that changes/threatens that concept makes him panic. He probably doesn't have any mental illnesses, he's probably just stuck in the 'me' mindset most toddlers and preschoolers are known for. That or he's just an asshole. Basically he's a beholder. DM got a beholder for a player lol
I thought of an interesting way op could have handled it when the kid told the guard "I'm going to kill your mom" the guard begins crying the other guard scolds the half orc cleric, "that was rude, his mother just died a few weeks ago it was all I could do to get us guard duty here to Cher him up. I don't know what you are thinking but its not funny." this method would force Damion to actually think about what he was saying. I don't know if it would have worked but it may have gobsmacked him long enough for the dm to get things back on the rails.
I can’t help but feel sad for the kid (while of course also being wary). After a particularly traumatic thing happened to me around that same age as Damien, I was a very angry kid and exhibited some similar behaviors myself, I can’t imagine what DM’ing for me at the time would’ve looked like. TW for sexual abuse, but to expand further, being sexually assaulted as a child can create a malignant vulnerability in a child that I can relate to and it took finding my foster parents to dredge myself out of that frame of mind, their unconditional love really saved me. At this point in my life I’m married to a remarkable woman and have 4 equally remarkable children and I couldn’t get here and be this person without having gotten help. I obviously can’t assume Damien experienced exactly that or any form of abuse really, but it’s hard for me to imagine a child acting the way he is without being traumatized somehow and I genuinely hope he’s gotten some help by now.
If I were OP, I wouldn't allow that kid on my table anymore. Maybe contact the storeowner (or whoever did set up the table in the first place) and explain the situation. It would also be good to talk to the parents, although I understand that a) that isn't OPs responsibility and b) the parents could be the problem. It seems to me, that the kid never had to face any form of obstacle before. In any case, I would refuse to let Damien back at the table. The other two kids seem to be easygoing (if sadly terrorized by Damien), so maybe with them and some more players the game could get good again.
This legit sound like damian has unstable personality disorder, i know amateur diagnosis are bullshit, i just have the condition myself and recognise some of the signs
If you mean BPD or *Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder (which I also suffer from), absolutely not. The kid is 8. There's a reason it isn't diagnosed that early. I think once you're a teenager it becomes more murky and depending on the case could be diagnosed then, but he absolutely doesn't fit the diagnostic criteria for BPD. In fact if anything he reminds me more of other PDs from the B Cluster, but that means jack shit because again, we are not at all fit to diagnose this kid. If he'd be diagnosed with anything it's either ODD or Conduct Disorder, but I don't have the proffesional knowledge to do that and no psychiatrist would do that from one story like this without seeing the kid in person.
I'm honestly surprised that D&D for kids is actually a thing. D&D 5e is the easiest version of the game by far, but it is still nuanced enough that even grown adults can't grasp the concepts very well.
I was confused when he decided he’d be playing the game rules-as-written without considering if the kids would actually enjoy it. I wouldn’t be surprised if at least part of the reason Damien was acting like this is because he wasn’t enjoying the game anymore
This. So much this. There are plenty of systems and settings suited for kids. D&D as written is not, and I'd like to think any DM "experienced with DMing for kids" would either recognise this and use a different setting OR tweak the game. Heck, when I was 8 most kids couldn't play Monopoly or, like, any boardgame without constant reminders and explanations of the rules.
Honestly, I've been running a game for my 8-year-old cousin and my boyfriend and have seen similar behavior, with my cousin's Minotaur Barbarian either actively attacking both my boyfriend's Human Paladin and various NPCs, from guards to farmers to fellow adventurers. Either that or gleefully declaring death threats as ultimatums for a farmer to hand over fish while they were fishing together at a creek. He was upset/bored from the Paladin and a Goliath Forge Cleric knocking him to 0 and cuffing his unconscious character after he decided to punch the cleric in the face for beating him in arm wrestling, which he instigated. I talked to him later about the fact that most people don't like being hit without consent and are likely to either hit you back or walk away. We've only had one session since, but he seems to be behaving better so far.
When the kid threw himself on the guard's sword at Damien's command, the DM should have stood up for him and paused the action there. Some kids need to be taught how they can stick up for themselves. DM should have given that kid support and expressed that they cared they were being bullied like that than allowing it to keep going. Not their kid of course so whatever happened outside of game wasn't their problem.
The kid definitely needs psychological help. This behavior is not normal nor should the DM tolerate it. First step is to contact the company (which I heard he has, and that's good), and next to make sure his parents know of this behavior. Kid or not, he's on a bad, bad path and it's worrysome he's gotten to this point in the first place. I genuinely fear what he can turn into if this just keeps going. On the same note, this DM absolutely doesn't sound like someone with 10 years in this position. The way he managed the situation was poor to say the least, and he should have dragged the kids to the side and had a talk with them rather than just keep going about his day and DMing for them like this was completely normal. Man, what a story this is.
1) As soon as he started healing himself, when he had no wounds, OP should have explained that he cannot "stock up" on health by pre-healing himself. Since it was clear that they did not understand how combat worked, the should have stopped the combat, and EXPLAINED how it worked. In detail. Then, when the psycho kid ordered his partner to "take this hit for me," OP should have said, "That is NOT how combat works. He CANNOT do that. So, what do you do in your turn?" and just ignored the kid's commands to break the rules. 2) When the psycho declared, "I'm here to kill your mother," PAUSE the game, and EXPLAIN that "you do realize that threatening people with violence is going to cause them to fight you, and since you threatened their MOTHER, they are likely to fight you to the death, right? You do KNOW that, right? Do you WANT these guards to fight you to the death? Please consider your actions, because there WILL BE CONSEQUENCES." They are 8 years old, and may not yet KNOW about consequences. Explain, as if they are small. "If you cut your finger, you will bleed. If you touch a hot stove, you will be burned. If you threaten to kill a guard's mother, you WILL be beaten to as close to death as they can manage." 3). When the psycho flipped out, "I'm dead," EXPLAIN, "You are not dead. You are unconscious. They went easy on you, and refrained from killing you outright, in favor of keeping you in jail overnight, and you'll have a trial in the morning. A TRIAL. You have two choices. You can either escape the jail tonight and LEAVE TOWN, or you can face the judge and hope that he finds you innocent, or at least has some mercy on you, and does not sentence you to immediate execution. But I warn you, he is not likely to be merciful, so you'll have to do REALLY well with your legal arguments to get out of this. 4). When the psycho flipped, "They're not helping me and I'm gonna die!" EXPLAIN, "They are trying to get the keys to let you out, LITERALLY RIGHT NOW. Watch what they are doing, and you will see that they ARE helping you. Calm down." 5). When he ordered the kid to "sacrifice yourself for me, or I will kill you," first EXPLAIN, "That will NOT help you escape. That will just cause MORE guards to come, and they will make sure you do NOT escape, and the trial will be even harder in the morning. If he sacrifices himself for you now, you will almost certainly be executed in the morning. Secondly, he does NOT have to sacrifice himself for you. Thirdly, you are MISBEHAVING, and if you do it again, I will have no choice but to KICK YOU OUT OF THIS GROUP, because YOU ARE HARMING OTHERS! You are NOT the star of this show. THIS IS A COOPERATIVE GAME and NOBODY is the main character. You are ALL EQUAL PARTNERS. And if you EVER threaten another player in this game, it will be the LAST thing you do in this game. Do not blame the other player for not doing what you said, because I WILL NOT ALLOW THEM to do what you said. I will kick you out, and it will be YOUR fault for YOUR OWN behavior, and if you hurt them out of game, I will personally see that you, REAL LIFE YOU, are institutionalized, as a danger to the community. DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME?" And then, do not proceed until he answers you that he understands that there are REAL LIFE consequences for his behavior. 6). TELL the kid, "Keep acting like this, and you will die alone and hated, because NOBODY likes a bully." This kid desperately needs someone to tell him some home truths, and to face some real-world consequences. Also, if these kids meet each other in person, then ALL the authority figures need to be ON ALERT, that this child has threatened the other ones, and may very well try to attack them, in real life. Remember, you CAN tell a player, "No, you don't do that. I will not allow it." Now, there's an update? Please tell me there's an update. And please tell me that the update involves getting that kid, and possibly his parents, into counseling. He is terrifying.
This is a PSA to remind you to think back to when you were 8, and all the times criticism and being told no, especially by a stranger, worked for you. We’ll wait… 0? Huh. Funny how that works. Children aren’t adults. Thats not how you engage with or teach a child. One more time: CHILDREN ARE NOT ADULTS
Idk, the kids I knew that acted like this in school when I was growing up got a heck of a lot of "discipline" at home. They developed terrible anxiety and didn't understand that *[person did thing I don't like, therefore I should scream, threaten them, or use violence]* was not an appropriate response. They just mimicked what their parents did to them. Those parents definitely believed what they were doing was "discipline". Pretty sure @ᴀꜱᴛᴀʀᴇꜱ is right.
@@killmutt Technically all those dumb words that end in “-path” are flexible colloquialisms and not words anyone would use in a real psychological capacity.
@@olivinemage4233 There is a difference between discipline and abusing a child. I hate how people can't tell the difference anymore. I was an extremely maladjusted child but with the PROPER guidance and discipline from my parents I corrected my behavior. Beating your child isn't discipline people.
I'd rather belt him. If you wouldn't learn the error of your ways from the minor consequences alone, they will only escalate until you eventually pass off that one person who gives 0 damns that you're a kid, and they beat the living shit out of you, or hand out cruel and unusual punishment.
I semi agree with this, at the end of the day the parents need to do a better job. The internet needs to be used more responsibly, aside from any good memories One may have.
I've worked with kids for years. 8-year-olds generally have no grasp of thinking outside of themselves and never consider that they may not always be the main character. They also are terrible at IRL self-preservation and even worse at in-game self-preservation. The kid is a wildcase but wild kids are a dime a dozen. Hopefully he's taught that his behavior is wrong sooner rather than later.
It's really worrying that he gets away with threatening his fellow players like that. I mean, if that was me in the group and he told me that I should sacrifice my character or he would kill me, I'd probably deep six his character, rip out his ribcage and then play a jaunty little tune using his trachea. I don't do PK in any situation other than when another character is clearly threatening the group or acting like a complete murderhobo, but this guy does both, and I'm pretty sure him being eight has nothing to do with it.
So my nephew is very guilty of 'I must be winning' and panicking at the slightest moment he starts to fail. Even when playing Monopoly, if he rolled a one on the dice (which isn't even terrible, depends entirely on the square ahead) he'd start to hyperventilate and hide his face and whimper he's losing. And he's genuine. It's not a 'let me win/I'm acting' ploy, he genuinely is terrified of failure. We make sure to take time to talk to him and explain to him to remember it is a game and failing is part of that. So this kid being desperate not to 'lose' is actually not too uncommon. Definitely a sign of insecurity and toxic competitive traits, but nothing unusual. However, the 'I'll kill you mother' and 'YOU. Take this hit for me'. Yeah, that shit needed the game pausing at once and DM to give some hard truths.
"Why is everyone attacking me?!"
- The player who made death threats to the guard's mother and physically attacks them
I had this happen with a problem player i booted a month ago. He was a loot goblin/murderhobo, and would just rush in headfirst to all the enemies. Then when he was only one visible, all the enemies would focus and hit him. He'd then complain "why am I being targeted all the time?"
Some kids literally don't develop to the point of understanding that others might expect of them the same behavior/respect they expect of others.
And sadly, sometimes they keep that attitude well into adulthood.
@@ZorotheGallade That's called not being raised properly
@@Hewhowantstoknow That's called a household with no proper child discipline or even love.
It's 8 year old kid. Dont take this kid seriously
If it's an option, the OP might consider contacting the kid's parents/guardian. Seems like he might need psychological help.
Or at least talking to the shop owner...
@@TaleSeeker Based on how they spoke about "peaking his microphone", I assume that game takes place online
@@oicmorez4129 yeah it was said, but nothing about the shop owner. Though I'm a little surprised a parent wasn't involved.
Yeah, at some point op literally describes bipolar disorder, that kid should get a psychological evaluation
Kid def needs help but he's shreiking into his mic and not a peep from his parents? They might be why he needs help
This may be the youngest antagonist in a rpg horror story on this channel!
Yeah. I would hate to meet him in real life.😫
Consequence of global warming: shitheads are spawning more frequently and coming to maturity faster. Nature, she is a fickle mystery
This is the sort of thing I had to deal with growing up, being told we had to give the slightly loony learning-disabled bully "a chance". The joke is on me, as I found out this is how teachers decided to faust the problem onto other children and be lazy, instead of actually taking the job of being the adult seriously.
Just wanna say... your comment currently has 666 likes, the kid on this story is call Damien and is the antagonist in this horror story... funny coincidences XD
So far…
Honestly, if I was a “DM for hire,” THIS is why I’d make it a nonnegotiable part of my service that I have a recording device/program active during sessions. Not just to cover my ass if the shit hits the fan, but also to report to the parents/guardians if the child is showcasing alarming behavior.
For sure if there are minors involved
Actually, that’d be INSANELY difficult to do with minors. Like, holy fuck how the hell are you planning on managing that?? We cant even get cameras in SCHOOLS to record this behaviour due to privacy and safety concerns; and you somehow think parents will trust you with their kids face, identity and actions in recording like that??
No, that’s subject to WAY too much abuse. Really the parents/guardians should just, be there? To witness it and all? Supervision while online? Is that a foreign concept now? Im like, born right in the 2000 so zoomer and all but apparently not enough if the absence of parents around while online is a common thing.
@@aliasilver_636 actually it's much easier to do that with private companies like the dm in the post seems to work with. The reason why it's so difficult to get cameras in schools is due to federal privacy regulations, but if the all the parents of the players sign off on the sessions being recorded that'd likely be the end of it.
The hardest part would just be getting all the parents to agree to that.
Not all recordings need visuals. It can be solely an audio recording.
Not all recordings need visuals. It can be solely an audio recording.
OP should try to contact the kids parents or school officials about the kids behavior, it's really concerning.
I work with traumatized kids and he ticks a LOT of the boxes of behaviors we have to be aware of
I'm pretty sure his parents are the cause of this, so contacting them likely won't help.
@@stefankruger8208 feel the same way.
Instead "let's game on!"
Geez...
@@Nerobyrne Yeah, I honestly would be unsurprised if the parents were the reason or at least the main reason why he was (getting away with) acting like this since that sadly seems more likely than legitimate mental issues. Not that it couldn't be both, but I just find it *highly* unlikely that whatever paternal figures he has don't already have some inkling of what he's like, especially with almost everyone stuck at home for a year plus.
Nah, in-game actions should have in-game consequences. Aside maybe from barring Damien from playing anymore.
I was very much like Damian when I was his age. Not in the psychopathic extreme but I also had these quick, extreme emotional changes. I was later diagnosed with bi-polar disorder and finished therapy last year. I do not want to excuse his behavior. It is up to his parents or other responsible adults to give him the support he needs and I really hope he gets it. This child could just be really sick.
Hope he gets help
Yup, I went through the same. Hopefully someone realizes soon. Because unchecked, the behavior is going to get him into problems a lot bigger than DnD.
While I agree he needs help, it doesn't change the fact that the kids a psychopath in the making considering how obsessive he was with killing everything, I can see this little pissant play Undertale on the Genocide Route and genuinely think it's the best ending
@@TigerW0lf I had a similar obsession with violence and a quick temper as a child because I was trying to understand the violence I had experienced and no one gave me the tools. Its not a sure sign of psychopathy and violence in children is a sign of a different problem the majority of the time
My nephew has a similar thing. Mood tends to be connected to his success/failure though
I'm only part way through, but, assuming the story is legit, it's odd to me that the DM didn't pause the game during the jailbreak and have a frank talk with the kids about player control over characters, or else talk privately to the one kid who was told to sacrifice his character. I get wanting to keep immersion, but I also feel like ANYONE, including the DM, has a right to drop character during play to clarify things, or do an emotional wellness check.
Yup, they said those kids didn't knew a lot about RPG so they should've talked about these stuff to everyone. More than once if they needed
Yeah that part threw me off as well especially since the OP said he was an experienced DM. When Damien first said to the other kid to take the hit for him, or about how "on your next turn you take the hit" the DM should have stopped it right there and explained that's now how it works. He just sort of let it happen. Absolutely should have stopped it when Damien threatened the other character (or maybe he was actually threatening the kid) about sacrificing their character.
I'm scared to think what the DM lets pass in his games if he lets stuff like this slip from a kid.
@@IottiPH I dunno about you, but when I was 8, if anyone (especially an adult) tried to talk to me about anything, I instantly tuned out and daydreamed during the entire "talk".
@@HamsterPants522 That's why RPG is a good tool for that. They will be fairly punished if they don't listen and learn. It's a good way to teach to listen to people.
i was confused too. He’s a pretty poor DM. When you’re the only one above the age of 10 amongst children as well, act like an adult and teach the kid a lesson. My assumption here is that DM is just scared of being mean to a kid or something, or letting the game die cuz there’s only 3 ppl. but even so, they shouldn’t be DMing a game if they can’t even attempt to handle a literal 8 year old and no DND is better than bad one, especially when he’s allowing a child to bully other children. Protect the other kids at LEAST.
Yea... Damien's parents should be alerted to this, there's no telling what someone with this mindset could do if left unchecked
Very optimistic of you to assume that his parents aren't similarly crazy.
@@HamsterPants522 and at that point, CPS or something can get involved
@@HamsterPants522 parents being sane is a best case scenario worst case op would need to get cps involved, either way, that kid has a seeming pile of mental issues and is already on the way to becoming a genuine sociopath
@@HamsterPants522 or possibly apathetic. "Let the kid do whatever he wants as long as he's out our hair."
@@MenxiGoblinQueen Even more optimistic of you to assume that CPS doesn't offer an even more grim fate for the child.
"Kids are cruel Jack, and I am very in touch with my inner child!"
- A wise American once said.
Amogus
Damien is the kinda kid Sundowner needs
@@rhysofsneezingdragon1758 red dice over d&d🎶
Fucking invencible
@@rhysofsneezingdragon1758 Damien will grow up into Sundowner
I’m no professional, but I took note to how Damien constantly blurted out “I’m going to kill your mother” or something along the lines of that.
Now, kids are very impressionable. If they see a behavior that they find particularly cool or funny, they will milk the crap out of that behavior until someone else tells them to stop. This is double-so for simple phrases.
I suspect that Damien, at some point in his life, heard the phrase about mother killing or whatever from…somewhere, whether it be an adult show or from someone close to him. Thus, Damien found the phrase super cool and edgy, and adopted the phrase if only to feed his own ego.
Might be a long stretch tho, idk.
This is way more plausible than it being a mental disorder, it’s not a stretch at all
Thats, like, child psych101 my dude! Definitely has a lot to do with it, and it gives us a hint as to where to look into first. Home life is likely very rough for them, and, to address the other comment here, likely is at least partially if not fully behind this DEFINITE mental illness.
What it is, literally nobody can actually know unless they sat down with him and properly tested him. People can guess it’s bipolar or BPD or just a pure trauma response, but really we cant know.
yeah that's the read i got
I stopped reading at "I'm no professional"
What a nice crustacean, he probably participates in raves and perhaps he divulges in the readings of improper behavior involving improvised role playing table top games.
Truly an intriguing little guy.
@@Peanuggie Indeed, tis truly the zenith of evolution.
Damien "Remember if I die, You all die"
DM "In game right?
Damien says nothing
DM concerned "In game right?
this kid lacks definately a strong father figure who puts this demon child in his place.
I CANNOT GET OVER THE IRONY
The Kid that feels personally victimized by the frankly light consequences of his malicious actions really said: "I want a WILD MAGIC SORCERER, CLERICS ARE TRASH!"
That subclass is expressly for those that enjoy feeling like the dice are bullies.
Wild Magic Sorcerer- for when you wanna play a masochist with no safe word
I’m sitting here wondering if OP informed the location he was working for of the kids behavior. Obviously the kid needs therapy and the other two will probably need it to get out of that toxic dependency.
I highly doubt it.
There was an update recently - Damien's second character got killed, so he threw a tantrum in session and later spammed OP with texts about how the game is unfair, how he's being targeted, etc. OP showed the texts to the company owner, so hopefully they'll do something now
@@SolrSurfr3 oh wow. Kid screwed up and gave actual evidence of his behaviour. At least theres that.
If a kid is acting like this I am gonna have to start checking everything about my players because I do not want my players acting like the kid in this story
Kids are more likely to behave immaturely than adults
@@blakchristianbale youd be surprised
@@amagimofumofu6549 no I wouldn’t
The immediate jump to accusations of racism makes me think this is learned behaviour.
At that age everything is pretty much learned behaviour, you aint blowing anyone's mind here
Maybe the child was raised by Twitter?
@@javsandarts If the child is a "psychopath" as described in the story it would be inherent behaviour, not learned. But thanks for playing.
We should leave CuLtuRE wAr outside while we judge 8 years old behaviour. Considering he has parents.
@@Deefry yeah I'm pretty sure the kids was just born with all the knowledge he has now. That's how it works right?. I like how you get played by the idea that only things you don't like are "learned" cuse you think everything else most be normal if you don't think or act that way.
You aint immune to learned behavior
I'm 99% sure that Damien wasn't referring to their characters when he said 'I will kill you,' and that he definitely should not be allowed to meet up with either of the other two kids in person.
This story reminds of that one factoid that psychologists won't test teens for psychopathy because most teens would register as psychopaths. I'm probably misremembering that.
I heard that somewhere too, weird
That sounds dumb as fuck. Most kids are tame, this sort of behavior is not the norm whatsoever. Teens with problematic parents would maybe count
Teens have brains which haven't matured enough to control their emotions or understand long-term consequences of their actions as well as adults, plus their hormone balance is mess. So it doesn't need much to make teens behave like adults with (mild) antisocial personality disorder.
@@valivali8104 That 8 year old is acting like he's got a personality disorder
@@clarehidalgo I know, but wasn't talking about Damien. Was answering to claim from factoid about that psychologists don't test teens for "psychopathy" because most teens would meet criterions for it, which Conner Scott wrote about.
I was playing Elden Ring while listening to this in the background.
And just as Critcrab mentioned Elden Ring a giant crab rose up from behind and murked me.
I guess god finds funny ways to mess with my head.
Damien gives me manipulator vibes, especially with the "I'm dead, my characters dead" thing. It's like the thing of having a toxic ex say they're going to kill or hurt themselves just to get your attention/sympathy.
Kid needs help now before it develops into a major problem.
Yep every kid that's ever said "I'm dead" in reference to being in trouble is definitely a manipulative future serial killing abuser.
@@agencymenace1090 I’m reminded of one time on Reddit a babysitter was saying a baby was trying to manipulate her because it smiled at her when it wanted something
@@blakchristianbale like that's absolute insanity and the comment above is absolute insanity too. Kids do things for attention, but that doesn't mean they're abusive or manipulators. To me it sounded like that kid was panicked things didn't go his way or the way he wanted things to go, and he was having big emotions for a little body. Like did the original commenter ignore the fact the kid is 8 YEARS OLD? That's like a 3rd grader, of course those little bastards don't know how to handle themselves or their emotions right because they barely are developed!
@@agencymenace1090 exactly. Everybody acting as if this kid is going to be a serial killer is disgusting. 8 is still so young, and it just seems like he lacks a bit of the emotional maturity typical of his age (his behaviour reminds me of stuff I see 5 year olds I work with do) but at the end of the day he’s only going to learn if somebody explains why his actions are wrong and how he can be a better friend to the people he’s playing with. If anything he sounds more like a stereotypical spoilt only child rather than a future manipulator
@@caoimhedoesstuff9293 I could also see him being a neglected child who was never given the time to learn emotional maturity. Honestly I recognize parts of myself because I was neglected to hell and back, but I'm not out here skinning cats like people are acting like this kid is gonna be.
I might have told this story before, but: One of the kids I DM for (sixth grade tho, so a bit older than eight) killed a goblin once, wasn't satisfied with only that, so he cut him to pieces and stomped him to a pulp, then left the goblin mush on the side of the road for everyone to see. The day before that he threatened and almost killed a barkeep because the barkeep asked him to not drink stuff from other bars in his tavern. He also didn't participate in any fights, instead either running away, or looting stuff in the room they were in. He was supposed to be lawful good.
You absolutely shouldn't allow it. Why didn't you tell him "no"??
Sounds legal to me
@@wojciechniemirski1782 I usually treat in game offenses with in game consequences. He got thrown in jail for a day and had to pay a very hefty fine for threatening the barkeep and when the townspeople saw the goblin pulp (and guessed who it was from), got kicked out of the town permanently. He also lost his lg alignment.
Before I could think of consequences for him never participating in fights, though, I had to throw him out of the group for out of game offenses.
@@keyboardkomments9152 you definitely made the right call. But in-game, maybe just don't award experience to a player who isn't participating? Or start planning encounters with highly mobile enemies that will chase down players on the outskirts.
Find someone who looks at you like CritCrab looks at WorldAnvil
Or how generation hope loves word farm adventure, the best way to increase your spelling skills.
Or how spelling is NOT easy,but Grammarly can help
The Emperor of Mankind looks at all who pledge alliance to him like that
I just realized that D&D is quite a good way to teach kids (in a fun way) about actions and consecuences, working steadily and patiently towards a goal, good teamwork spirit and how to tolerate frustration.
I'm not any sort of professional DM, GM or anything so I can't say with any level of certainty if this would have even been an option for the DM in this story. But none the less.
The MOMENT that kid threatened another player. Muted. BANNED!
I don't care that he's 8 years old, actions have consequences. I don't care if he understands why this happened or not, because it's long past time he did!
I would also then take some time, as much as needed, to tell the other two that while we will continue to play but I need them to first try and understand (as best they could, and then get back to the game) that "no D&D is better than bad D&D". Basically if they don't want to do what someone like that is telling them to, under threat no less, they don't have to. The game is here for everyone to have fun and not just one person.
tbf for little kids like that you need to explain that it's wrong and that there will be consequenses in a calm and serious manner (especially when there likely weren't any consequenses before you joined as dm) before you insta ban them (and maybe even just be as light as to make sure he never gets what he wants that way), but the dm enabling this behaviour and not taking nearly enough action against it is so stupid and shitty. Even if you are just there to get paid it wouldn't work in your favour at all to let this kid act the way he does.
Still though, you better make sure he knows exactly in detail why this happened because else he can make you just be that stupid adult that banned him while he was doing nothing wrong without lying. Which isn't only bad for his future bahaviour, but also the other kids in the group (and your professionalism). If I was there as a kid and he'd be insta banned for acting out in that way I'm sure I'd be scared to make a mistake or get mad (in an unhealthy way) especially in a situation when the others are manipulated to the point where they'd sacrifice their characters for the lil psycho at a dime. gotta be more patient, consistent and guiding with kids
As much as I agree with many comments about Damien, I want to say, "What the hell DM?" This happened over multiple sessions, but at no point did DM go to teachers, or parents? Especially with Damien controlling other kids, and with many, many, *MANY* threats of violence? The kid is obviously unwell, and should not be playing, possibly not even interacting with other kids. Yet the DM just... Does nothing? Only stopped, what, the third or fourth time Damien told the other kids what to do? That's actually pretty disgusting on the part of the DM.
How is that “disgusting”? Neglectful, sure. Irresponsible, definitely. But remember Hanlon’s Razor. Working with kids is difficult and sometimes you just don’t know what to do.
Throughout this entire story I heard no mention of Damien's parents being contacted to go "Yo folks, your kid is a freaking psychopath who wants to get other players to kill themselves for him. He's kicked from the group and get him to a bloody therapist!"
This one hit home for me. I am also a paid DM who focuses on kids afterschool campaigns, and just celebrated my 5 year pro anniversary back in january. Long post coming up.
The real monster in this story is the original DM, who must have seen this behavior and did not handle it. Here's the thing: when you tell kids that D&D is game where you can do anything, you can bet that some of them will test that to the extreme. Kids are constantly being told what they can and can't do, and when they have the chance to call the shots for a bit, some of them really go for it. This by itself doesn't make them a bad kid. Even the complaints over the low dice rolls are likely rooted in their own sense of control. D&D is often the one chance some of these kids have to feel in control of themselves, and while it is super annoying - especially for those of us that don't have a still-developing sense of self - it still isn't a huge warning flag by itself. Both of these things can be handled best by a session zero talk to explain what the game is, what it isn't, and how to be a good player.
This is one area where the OP may have dropped the ball. At no point during the tale did the OP say they explained to the kids how they expect the players to behave. Maybe OP did and just didn't mention it, but it doesn't sound like it. I always discuss with every group my expectations. The biggest rule I have (especially for kids) is this: Do not be the reason another player has a bad session. I also have very strict PVP rules. 1. PVP is not just combat. 2. I decide what is and is not PVP. 3. If something happens that I determine to be PVP, we pause and take a blind annonymous vote. Only if the vote is unanimous will I allow the PVP action, and even then, I will sometimes lie if I think it will ruin a kid's day. The manipulative aspect of what this kid did (telling other kids to die for him) easily would have met my definition of PVP.
Other things that could have stopped this sooner are not allowing the kid to participate and contacting the parents. Anyone who runs a game for kids must have a way to contact the parents, and this should have been brought up with them sooner. "I know Damien loves D&D, and I admire his enthusiasm, but we are having a hard time because he is interfering with the other players' good time. How can we curb this and still give him the game he loves?" You could even ask the kid directly. "Damien, this is not how we play d&d, because it is making it not fun for others at the table - including me as the DM. What else do you like about the game? How can we focus on that?"
It is especially hard for kids in the 8-10 year old category because they are usually not old enough to grasp the idea of empathy. That doesn't usually happen for people until around 12, which is part of why I think d&d recommends "12 and up" on the box. When a player is too immature to use empathy as a self-regulator for their behavior, you have to establish a clear framework of what is and isn't acceptible behavior for them. "These kinds of things are ok. These are not. You need to accept that and find your fun within this framework. As DM I will help you do that. But if you can't, then you do not get to ruin the game for anyone else at the table and will be asked to leave." Damien clearly never got that.
In some ways this is one of the more disturbing stories on this channel. Partly because of the kid's extremely alarming behaviour, but also because he clearly needs help from a professional, and it makes one worry if he's actually getting it.
Maybe it's just cuz I was a kid with undiagnosed mental illness and neuro-divergence too, and this story just hits home for me. I really hope he gets the help he needs, both for his sake and for the sake of those around him.
this gave me chills, thats some abusive behavior and shines a little light on how their background might be like
Children sometimes scare the hell out of me, even more than adults...
Why?
Cause if a kid says or do something horrible, you know that it's from the heart,completely sincere, and that freaks me out.
Love to hear your narration King Crab!
That and if they’re like this NOW, what will they be like when they’re older and more capable of doing what they’re saying now irl
The DM seriously needs to get a hold of the parents of all three children.
1. To follow up with D's parents about his emotional instability, and
2. To make sure D can't actually harm Alex and the other player in real life.
I have worked in child care my entire life and have had some kids that many people write off as "damaged" this is very concerning and I really hope the OP/DM reaches out to these kids outside of the game and their parents / guardians.
Everything I can say to this story is "what the feck". And also that everyone involved is a terrible person.
Including the DM for just "rolling with it" every time the game was messed up by the problem player.
"Hmm the kid keeps trying to be edgy, kills other players and NPCs for no reason, seems to be violently bipolar, surrounds himself with submissive "friends" just to torment them and goes absolutely against anything that roleplaying stands for...I can still work with that, SURELY he will behave THIS time"
In the DM's *possible* defense, he did say this is a job and he's getting paid for it. I'm not sure about the rules set, but he might not have a choice. Still, he should definitely be taking to his client and the kid's parents.
@@normalgamergal As the dm, he always has the choice to manage unruly characters and speak OoC with unreasonable players. He knew these kids had incorrect expectations and should have laser-focused on setting new expectations, along with reprimanding any terrible behavior that crops up. The DM was weak and deserved the players they had.
@@normalgamergal His job is being a DM though, not a child psychologist or a nanny. If the game gets disrupted so badly, it is time to stop the entire thing.
@@normalgamergal what kind of rules prevent DM getting help for problem child and protecting other children from toxic and dangerous behavior by banning problem player until they gets help they needs? What kind of rules would demand DM sacrifice other players for one problem player?
Wow, I said "possible" and people are jumping down my throat. Thanks, guys...
Anyway, does the DM have a contract? Who's the DM's client? If the DM boots the kid, will he lose a contract? Was he paid in advance? Had he already spent the money on his expenses? Does he have existing issues that require the money? If he boots the kid, will he get a poor relationship with the shop which will lose him jobs down the line? Does he have dependents? Does he have to pay medical expenses? Is the kid the kid of someone important?
I don't know the answers to any of these questions, but as someone who's been self-employed for years, has a dad and grandpa who were self-employed for decades, I realize that working with bad clients sometimes comes with the territory. Is this a situation where it's necessary? I don't know, but I don't pretend to, either.
It's very different to do something as a hobby than it is doing something as a job. Something I'm constantly reminded people who aren't self-employed are unable to understand.
Honestly, I can't help but wonder whether the DM made any attempts to sit down with those kids (privately) to actually discuss the situation. It's my understanding that's the go to approach for trying to deal with troublesome behaviour, and the fact there was no mention of such attempts makes it seem like the DM was a bit negligent in that manner.
You would also think that the DM might try to reach out to the parents of Damien to discuss his behaviour. Either they know about those problems, in which case they might have some advice or insights that could be beneficial, or they don't know about it, in which case being informed means they could seek help for the kid. There's no reason not to, really.
Stories like this are the main reason why, while it's very tempting to get paid to do something I love, I have no desire to ever become a professional dungeon master.
Nah, it's not that complicated. Just make a contract with some terms and conditions before running the game. If they break the rules - breach of contract - get a new group. You don't have to be tied down to something you feel bad about. You have no obligations beyond those you agree to.
As a volunteer DM for a local community club a few years back, i have shocking seen similar behaviour in a kid too. but in my case, what was happening is the kid was terminally ill and because of that, other kids were being nice to him by giving his character unfair benefits and access to magical items and such. it dragged on and things escalated as he began to see such treatment as his "right" and not a "privilege" because he was suffering in real life.
It's wild just thinking about what made Damien like this, and even more so thinking about how his threats must have influenced Alex and Jimmy.
God now I wish I could join as a cleric just to troll Damien. “Clerics are trash” you mean the most universally praised class?
Sounds like parents spoil him rotten and never set any consequences for when he does bad. In fact, the way he pins shit on other kids I wouldn't be surprised if he was the same with other kids around him and his parents, completely naively let him do what he does.
Damien acts like he either has severe antisocial personality disorder, has raised "bipolarly" (at times spoiled and allowed to do anything he wants, and at other times punished with violence, basically taught that powerful one can do what they want to weaker than them) or is has grown in very unsafe enviroment, like parents (emotionally) neglecting him/not protecting him from abuse by someone else.
@@valivali8104 Oh, so you're a child physiatrist? Can we see your Doctorate in child psychology?
It's hard to say. I've seen kids who were rotten because of neglectful parents, and I've seen rotten kids who came from a great home with very loving parents who disciplined fairly. It's pointless to start trying to diagnose or shift blame, because you don't know anything about his home situation or his past. For all you know, he's just a bad kid.
@@WobblesandBean why would you assume that he's bad first though unless you just fucking hate kids. And even then, mental illness doesn't care about your bank account or how you're treated sometimes. This kid could be really struggling mentally and people are in the comments like 'best lock him away before he starts skinning cats'
@@WobblesandBean amen to that. It's all senseless speculation.
When I was at a cultural center, assisting an art teacher to take care and teach kids, I found a similar case: this kid was not interested in the class, he would finish the exercises early so he could get up and start threatening other kids about "punishing" them if they didn't give him their stuff, when he was told off, he sunk in a corner with his phone... watching videos about shootings... smiling.
What I want to know is where are the parents of these kids? Why doesn't OP reach out to Damien's parents and have a serious talk with them about their kid's behavior? They're presumably the ones paying for OP's services
Because we live in a culture where we can't criticize parents for their precious baby's behavior.
I would assume they pay the store and the store pays him, so he probably hasn't any direct contact with the parents.
i honestly feel like it's the parents fault he's like this, i used to sound just like this kid and i was badly abused by my parents and neglected as a baby... i am genuinely concerned for this kid
CritCrab must have amazing restraint to NOT use Cartman on the thumbnail!
This kid needs to be told "no" more often.
When I was a kid, I had a "friend" who behaved in a similar manner to this. She never threatened to kill me, but with a straight face she would say things like "Buy me ice cream, now. Or I won't be your friend anymore." "Do____ or I'll go home." And shed throw tantrums toward adults or kids that stood up to her. Turned out she was being sexually abused at home, among other things. As an adult, I think it's a strong desire to exert control over someone, because they have no control at home. Younger, or 'weaker' kids their age are the only ones they can push around. If I was that DM I'd want someone to take a long hard look at Damien's home life.
Just what I was thinking. The fact that he consistently felt like he was in danger and might die even when there was little or no threat was really concerning to me. It seems like he doesn’t feel safe most of the time and in this game he can command people to protect him. If the primary method of action he gets to see in daily life is death threats, to him and others, it would make sense both of his commands to fellow players and his behavior towards the guards.
The add read for World Anvil actually helped me remember how long I have to put my lunch in the microwave for! Thanks!
I'm 41 so I'm a have a few old-fashioned notions in my head. Like, when a kid behaves like that you alert their parents or the school counselor. Maybe I just haven't gotten with the times, but I tend to forget the game when a mental health crisis happens that results in sadism and bullying.
No, that’s still the proper course of action. This guy just didn’t.
The fact that he got himself killed like a movie villain is the cherry on top. Gets attacked by alligators, tricks his allies into jumping in to save him while he then leaves them to die. And right in the middle of mocking their seemingly impending deaths, he realizes too late that in doing so he's alerted a horde of trolls to his position and gets ripped to shreds while our other two heroes make it out fine. It's perfect. I know the DM was trying very hard not to have the kids be wiped out by the consequences of their actions, but you can't write karma like that.
Me: He's 8, how bad could it get?
the party: *is also 8*
Me: Ah, yup. That explains it.
this remembered me from a quote from sundowner: "Kids are cruel, Jack, and I'm very in touch with my inner child"
69 likes nice
Unfortunately, Damien wasn't FUCKING INVINCIBLE
@@BusterBuizel well at least he wasn't going to be over paradise like the red sun
You're memes end here!
"Kids are cruel, Jack. And I'm very in touch with my inner child!"
Damien was FUCKING DISPICABLE!
Now, I'm no child psychologist, but the fact that Daminan doesn't seem to understand consequences is scary. Ether, he is extremely spoiled and his parents let him get away with way too much or he's deeply disturbed and needs help.
Upon hearing the words, "Jimmy, kill" I lost it, and laughed my butt off.
This channel deserves more love amongst our community, love your stuf man, keep it up!
The selfishness and unwillingness to take responsibility for a fault makes me feel like Damien suffers from a narcissistic personality
Y'know, there might be an explanation for this other than "Damien's a literal psychopath".
I've known kids who were *extremely* sore losers at his age. They'd avoid losing games at all costs and throw tantrums if they failed. Damien seems insecure to the point that he feels utterly worthless if he can't win at every single thing (even dice rolls determined by chance), and is so piss-scared of losing he orders his friends to take hits for him (and it's possible Alex thought he was being noble and brave by sacrificing himself, based on how gleefully he did it). He needs to learn how to have fun without being the best, which would likely be achieved through watching adults play the same game and noticing how it's not the end of the world when they struggle.
As for the "kill your mother" thing, it could be Damien's just repeating a line he heard from a movie or something, and the "do this or you're dead" stuff with the other players is just bluster with no real intent behind it. It's entirely plausible for a kid with insecurity issues to put on a tough-guy facade. Might he have more serious mental problems? Sure, and it'd be wise for OP to mention this behavior to his parents or guardians regardless (keep an eye on the mood swings for sure). But I find that when dealing with kids, especially since their brains and sense of logic are so different from adults', it's beneficial to explore different potential motivations rather than jump immediately to the most sinister conclusions.
I disagree. All of his actions seem pretty intentional, and he seemed serious when threatening NPCs and PCs.
@@nyxx5357 you’ve played with this kid?
"He's going to find a way to pronounce the smiling devil emoji." That made me laugh, I'm pretty sure I know a few people that description fits like a glove. XD
DM: "There's Alligators in the water that will attack you."
PC: "I jump in the water"
...
PC: "Help! Help! I'm being attacked by Alligators."
Ohhhhh god...
My cousin's approve
@@delnagasktruman7241Ya, guess so. That kid really is a little shit though if the DM asks "Do you want to do checks?" and everyone says "Yes" and then the absolute idiot ignores them and... well I don't really feel sorry.
Yep, firmly in "horror" and also extremely worrying 😕
Damien is for sure one of those guys I hope he matures out of it
All of this is behavior super abnormal in a child that young. Why didn't OP contact the child's parents? The racism is certainly learned behavior, but the mood swings 100% indicate a special need - be it pediatric bipolar disorder to something else. That child needs help.
Teacher here, without the context of Damian's home culture or life if I had to figure it's not as bad as it seems.
From the snapshot we get I figure Damian mainly has poor control of his emotions (emotional regulation is a skill like math or reading.) Along with struggling with social skills, I've seen kids around that age that bully since it just makes more sense to them.
As for the other murder hobo tendencies, again I don't want to play family therapist with a family I will never know or meet, but if I had to guess Damian might come from an indulgent household where consequences aren't really a thing, used to almost immediate gradification, hence the impatience.
As others as pointed out a session zero would have set things down along with expectations, how the DM would do things, it would let Damain and the others know what was and was not okay.
I'm sure Damain, for as murder hobo-e as hes acting, is probably anxious as all get out regarding all these changes, doesn't excuse the way he treats the other players, as I always say to my students
"It's okay to feel that way, but it's not okay to take it out on other people."
I was definitely picking up the "indulgent household with no consequences" vibe more than the "kid's crazy" vibe.
This story gives me some serious “deltarune weird route” vibes.
I can imagine:
“Kris? What are you doing? There aren’t any enemies left.”
SACRIFICE YOUR SELF FOR ME
“Huh? Are you ok? What did you just say?”
SACRIFICE YOUR SELF FOR ME
“Kris? What’s gotten into you? Let’s just go home.”
SACRIFICE YOUR SELF FOR ME
“I… I don’t want to do this.”
SACRIFICE YOUR SELF FOR ME
“KRIS! NO! stop it…”
SACRIFICE YOUR SELF FOR ME
Something like that could actually make for a compelling evil-aligned character in a campaign with mostly good/evil player characters... of course, like anything else, if executed well.
Like, they'd slowly convince the tiefling sorcerer that destruction is the only thing they're good for, for example, or they'd enable and urge the barbarian to give into and worsen their violent tendencies.
@@heavygunner4039 you gave me a wonderful idea for a story
Did the dm ever tried talking to the kids parents saying stuff like: "hi damnian is misbeheaving and forcing the other kids to do stuff and calling them names, if you could talk to him and see whats happening, if not im afraid i will have to ask your kids to leave the table" worst case scenario you will have to give a refund to that kid, best case scenario he behaves
Damien behaves like one of those psychopathic blood-thirsty bullies you'd find in Stephen King's books.
Let's be honest for a moment, if OP's narrative shows anything is that they NEVER tried to even talk to the kids; explain how he narrates or even the basic concepts of D&D of dice roll being purely luck, of that certain actions leading to consequences (which is common sense except for Damien). Not saying he should "parent" the kids, but they seemed to go like:
-I say I'll kill his mother!!
-You sure?(What a dumb kid, that will only angry the guard)
-Yes!
-Ok, the guard attacks you.
-What?! That's unfair!
-(Yeah, what else did you expect, dumb kid)
I don't think we know that at all. Those can be tough lessons to teach. Even for adults.
That kid is possibly one who was rarely (if ever) told "no" by his parents/guardians.
If I was in the DM's shoes I would have kicked him out for good. He needs to learn there are consequences to his actions.
He’s a cleric, right? Just have his god refuse to lend him their powers.
No no no! Why do so many people jump to in-game punishment for out-of-game problems? That is not how you fix problem players! You fix them by speaking to them OUT of game and addressing the issues there. GM needed to pause the game and talk to Damien and explain how that behavior was unacceptable at the table, and that he would not be allowed to continue to play if he was going to continue to act like that.
The overwhelming majority of CritCrab stories could have been solved or prevented by a GM just putting their foot down and talking to the problem player and sorting the issue out there. Instead so many of these stories involve the GM's trying to 'teach the player a lesson' and it always, always, always just spirals into even more problems. Just like this one: the player threatened to kill the guards mother and rather than stop and sort out why that wasnt going to fly, the GM instead tries to teach the kid a lesson in-game and attempts to punish him for it. And as you can see, that fixed nothing, and just made the kid angrier and attempt to lash out even more, causing even more issues.
I like your idea but his character wasn't making the death threats (except for the "kill your mother" bit), it was his player who was telling the other players to self sacrifice. You can't punish characters for actions they technically didn't commit
Depends on the god of the cleric, chaotic evil gods would find this demon child amusing.
I was getting angry at video games when I was little shit but I never tried to control anybody
That child's accent you put on for Damien...its so good...but reminds me of so many adults i've met oddly!!!
Damian is absolutely that one kid in class that boasts how good he can do a cartwheel, and then cries when someone else does one better. He's focused exclusively on himself and the world needs to be about him and him alone, and anything that changes/threatens that concept makes him panic. He probably doesn't have any mental illnesses, he's probably just stuck in the 'me' mindset most toddlers and preschoolers are known for. That or he's just an asshole.
Basically he's a beholder. DM got a beholder for a player lol
This is like a COD lobby.
Crab, I found your channel 10 days ago, and it's safe to say I'm slowly evolving to crab greatness. Hope there's room for one more claw boy :D
I thought of an interesting way op could have handled it when the kid told the guard "I'm going to kill your mom" the guard begins crying the other guard scolds the half orc cleric, "that was rude, his mother just died a few weeks ago it was all I could do to get us guard duty here to Cher him up. I don't know what you are thinking but its not funny." this method would force Damion to actually think about what he was saying. I don't know if it would have worked but it may have gobsmacked him long enough for the dm to get things back on the rails.
I can’t help but feel sad for the kid (while of course also being wary). After a particularly traumatic thing happened to me around that same age as Damien, I was a very angry kid and exhibited some similar behaviors myself, I can’t imagine what DM’ing for me at the time would’ve looked like. TW for sexual abuse, but to expand further, being sexually assaulted as a child can create a malignant vulnerability in a child that I can relate to and it took finding my foster parents to dredge myself out of that frame of mind, their unconditional love really saved me. At this point in my life I’m married to a remarkable woman and have 4 equally remarkable children and I couldn’t get here and be this person without having gotten help. I obviously can’t assume Damien experienced exactly that or any form of abuse really, but it’s hard for me to imagine a child acting the way he is without being traumatized somehow and I genuinely hope he’s gotten some help by now.
Never got here this early, love your voice man! Perfect timing for me on this.
same! what ever will i do for lunch time? listen to cringe from the crab.
If I were OP, I wouldn't allow that kid on my table anymore. Maybe contact the storeowner (or whoever did set up the table in the first place) and explain the situation. It would also be good to talk to the parents, although I understand that a) that isn't OPs responsibility and b) the parents could be the problem. It seems to me, that the kid never had to face any form of obstacle before. In any case, I would refuse to let Damien back at the table. The other two kids seem to be easygoing (if sadly terrorized by Damien), so maybe with them and some more players the game could get good again.
This legit sound like damian has unstable personality disorder, i know amateur diagnosis are bullshit, i just have the condition myself and recognise some of the signs
I was thinking the same.
If you mean BPD or *Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder (which I also suffer from), absolutely not. The kid is 8. There's a reason it isn't diagnosed that early. I think once you're a teenager it becomes more murky and depending on the case could be diagnosed then, but he absolutely doesn't fit the diagnostic criteria for BPD. In fact if anything he reminds me more of other PDs from the B Cluster, but that means jack shit because again, we are not at all fit to diagnose this kid. If he'd be diagnosed with anything it's either ODD or Conduct Disorder, but I don't have the proffesional knowledge to do that and no psychiatrist would do that from one story like this without seeing the kid in person.
Dora: Can you say "Future serial killer"? ........ That's right!
“From Minecraft on Creative Mode to Elden Ring.”
I'm honestly surprised that D&D for kids is actually a thing. D&D 5e is the easiest version of the game by far, but it is still nuanced enough that even grown adults can't grasp the concepts very well.
I was confused when he decided he’d be playing the game rules-as-written without considering if the kids would actually enjoy it. I wouldn’t be surprised if at least part of the reason Damien was acting like this is because he wasn’t enjoying the game anymore
This. So much this. There are plenty of systems and settings suited for kids. D&D as written is not, and I'd like to think any DM "experienced with DMing for kids" would either recognise this and use a different setting OR tweak the game. Heck, when I was 8 most kids couldn't play Monopoly or, like, any boardgame without constant reminders and explanations of the rules.
I disagree. Kids at that age (8-12) often really enjoy games with lots of rules. It just depends on the personality.
Honestly, I've been running a game for my 8-year-old cousin and my boyfriend and have seen similar behavior, with my cousin's Minotaur Barbarian either actively attacking both my boyfriend's Human Paladin and various NPCs, from guards to farmers to fellow adventurers. Either that or gleefully declaring death threats as ultimatums for a farmer to hand over fish while they were fishing together at a creek. He was upset/bored from the Paladin and a Goliath Forge Cleric knocking him to 0 and cuffing his unconscious character after he decided to punch the cleric in the face for beating him in arm wrestling, which he instigated. I talked to him later about the fact that most people don't like being hit without consent and are likely to either hit you back or walk away. We've only had one session since, but he seems to be behaving better so far.
DM should have had Damien roll intimidation checks everytime he threatened a player character.
Maybe... But that borders on solving IRL problems while in-game. I did have the same thought though.
Or he simply should not be allowed to do that. There are absolutely zero reasons to allow or enable that kind of behaviour.
They were a cleric? I think I would have just made their god implode their character for commiting obvious crimes so rampantly.
This is why my dnd group is made up of close friends
Me: Literally has his entire friendship group DESTROYED by DnD.
Damien is quickly becoming a muse for a new BBEG...
1:20 story starts
When someone threatens another player irl, it's time to stop playing and go to therapy.
When the kid threw himself on the guard's sword at Damien's command, the DM should have stood up for him and paused the action there. Some kids need to be taught how they can stick up for themselves. DM should have given that kid support and expressed that they cared they were being bullied like that than allowing it to keep going.
Not their kid of course so whatever happened outside of game wasn't their problem.
"I was stunned and before I knew it..." Is not an excuse. Like, speak up dude!
This. The DM should have reassured them that the demon child could not and would not be allowed to hurt them.
The kid definitely needs psychological help. This behavior is not normal nor should the DM tolerate it. First step is to contact the company (which I heard he has, and that's good), and next to make sure his parents know of this behavior. Kid or not, he's on a bad, bad path and it's worrysome he's gotten to this point in the first place. I genuinely fear what he can turn into if this just keeps going.
On the same note, this DM absolutely doesn't sound like someone with 10 years in this position. The way he managed the situation was poor to say the least, and he should have dragged the kids to the side and had a talk with them rather than just keep going about his day and DMing for them like this was completely normal. Man, what a story this is.
1) As soon as he started healing himself, when he had no wounds, OP should have explained that he cannot "stock up" on health by pre-healing himself. Since it was clear that they did not understand how combat worked, the should have stopped the combat, and EXPLAINED how it worked. In detail. Then, when the psycho kid ordered his partner to "take this hit for me," OP should have said, "That is NOT how combat works. He CANNOT do that. So, what do you do in your turn?" and just ignored the kid's commands to break the rules.
2) When the psycho declared, "I'm here to kill your mother," PAUSE the game, and EXPLAIN that "you do realize that threatening people with violence is going to cause them to fight you, and since you threatened their MOTHER, they are likely to fight you to the death, right? You do KNOW that, right? Do you WANT these guards to fight you to the death? Please consider your actions, because there WILL BE CONSEQUENCES." They are 8 years old, and may not yet KNOW about consequences. Explain, as if they are small. "If you cut your finger, you will bleed. If you touch a hot stove, you will be burned. If you threaten to kill a guard's mother, you WILL be beaten to as close to death as they can manage."
3). When the psycho flipped out, "I'm dead," EXPLAIN, "You are not dead. You are unconscious. They went easy on you, and refrained from killing you outright, in favor of keeping you in jail overnight, and you'll have a trial in the morning. A TRIAL. You have two choices. You can either escape the jail tonight and LEAVE TOWN, or you can face the judge and hope that he finds you innocent, or at least has some mercy on you, and does not sentence you to immediate execution. But I warn you, he is not likely to be merciful, so you'll have to do REALLY well with your legal arguments to get out of this.
4). When the psycho flipped, "They're not helping me and I'm gonna die!" EXPLAIN, "They are trying to get the keys to let you out, LITERALLY RIGHT NOW. Watch what they are doing, and you will see that they ARE helping you. Calm down."
5). When he ordered the kid to "sacrifice yourself for me, or I will kill you," first EXPLAIN, "That will NOT help you escape. That will just cause MORE guards to come, and they will make sure you do NOT escape, and the trial will be even harder in the morning. If he sacrifices himself for you now, you will almost certainly be executed in the morning. Secondly, he does NOT have to sacrifice himself for you. Thirdly, you are MISBEHAVING, and if you do it again, I will have no choice but to KICK YOU OUT OF THIS GROUP, because YOU ARE HARMING OTHERS! You are NOT the star of this show. THIS IS A COOPERATIVE GAME and NOBODY is the main character. You are ALL EQUAL PARTNERS. And if you EVER threaten another player in this game, it will be the LAST thing you do in this game. Do not blame the other player for not doing what you said, because I WILL NOT ALLOW THEM to do what you said. I will kick you out, and it will be YOUR fault for YOUR OWN behavior, and if you hurt them out of game, I will personally see that you, REAL LIFE YOU, are institutionalized, as a danger to the community. DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME?" And then, do not proceed until he answers you that he understands that there are REAL LIFE consequences for his behavior.
6). TELL the kid, "Keep acting like this, and you will die alone and hated, because NOBODY likes a bully."
This kid desperately needs someone to tell him some home truths, and to face some real-world consequences. Also, if these kids meet each other in person, then ALL the authority figures need to be ON ALERT, that this child has threatened the other ones, and may very well try to attack them, in real life.
Remember, you CAN tell a player, "No, you don't do that. I will not allow it."
Now, there's an update? Please tell me there's an update. And please tell me that the update involves getting that kid, and possibly his parents, into counseling. He is terrifying.
This is a PSA to remind you to think back to when you were 8, and all the times criticism and being told no, especially by a stranger, worked for you.
We’ll wait…
0? Huh. Funny how that works. Children aren’t adults. Thats not how you engage with or teach a child.
One more time:
CHILDREN ARE NOT ADULTS
Damien's obsession with being the best at everything makes me wonder what kind of pressure he's under in class and at home...
This is why children need discipline and why one should never allow an immature or maladjusted child into your RPG under any circumstances.
this is what happens when you don't socialize a human between 2-4 years old. they become void of empathy.. psychopaths.
@@Astares9 would technically be a sociopath
Idk, the kids I knew that acted like this in school when I was growing up got a heck of a lot of "discipline" at home. They developed terrible anxiety and didn't understand that *[person did thing I don't like, therefore I should scream, threaten them, or use violence]* was not an appropriate response. They just mimicked what their parents did to them. Those parents definitely believed what they were doing was "discipline". Pretty sure @ᴀꜱᴛᴀʀᴇꜱ is right.
@@killmutt Technically all those dumb words that end in “-path” are flexible colloquialisms and not words anyone would use in a real psychological capacity.
@@olivinemage4233 There is a difference between discipline and abusing a child. I hate how people can't tell the difference anymore. I was an extremely maladjusted child but with the PROPER guidance and discipline from my parents I corrected my behavior. Beating your child isn't discipline people.
Really enjoy the content, thank you!
I don't know why, but I just want to give Damian a hug. Something tells me he needs it.
Just check his pockets first please. This kid sounds a little to stab happy
Really? I wanted to give him the Rihanna 2009 treatment but to each their own.
@@TheRealNekora Good point. Better safe than sorry.
@@Peanuggie I had to google that but fuck me. I'm dead.🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I'd rather belt him. If you wouldn't learn the error of your ways from the minor consequences alone, they will only escalate until you eventually pass off that one person who gives 0 damns that you're a kid, and they beat the living shit out of you, or hand out cruel and unusual punishment.
"Somehow pronounce the smiling devil emoji" that shit sent me. Damn it fell in to a wall I just painted...
I don't think 8 year olds should be doing anything online in the first place, let alone D&D.
I semi agree with this, at the end of the day the parents need to do a better job.
The internet needs to be used more responsibly, aside from any good memories One may have.
12:32 Parents that don't pay atention to him? That would be my guess.
I've worked with kids for years. 8-year-olds generally have no grasp of thinking outside of themselves and never consider that they may not always be the main character. They also are terrible at IRL self-preservation and even worse at in-game self-preservation. The kid is a wildcase but wild kids are a dime a dozen. Hopefully he's taught that his behavior is wrong sooner rather than later.
It's really worrying that he gets away with threatening his fellow players like that. I mean, if that was me in the group and he told me that I should sacrifice my character or he would kill me, I'd probably deep six his character, rip out his ribcage and then play a jaunty little tune using his trachea.
I don't do PK in any situation other than when another character is clearly threatening the group or acting like a complete murderhobo, but this guy does both, and I'm pretty sure him being eight has nothing to do with it.
Usually the titles of these videos allow me to draw some vague conclusions but I have literally no idea what to expect from a Psycho 8 Yr Old
This is why you clearly verbally establish consequences for your actions especially if you suspect the players dont get it
So my nephew is very guilty of 'I must be winning' and panicking at the slightest moment he starts to fail. Even when playing Monopoly, if he rolled a one on the dice (which isn't even terrible, depends entirely on the square ahead) he'd start to hyperventilate and hide his face and whimper he's losing. And he's genuine. It's not a 'let me win/I'm acting' ploy, he genuinely is terrified of failure. We make sure to take time to talk to him and explain to him to remember it is a game and failing is part of that. So this kid being desperate not to 'lose' is actually not too uncommon. Definitely a sign of insecurity and toxic competitive traits, but nothing unusual.
However, the 'I'll kill you mother' and 'YOU. Take this hit for me'. Yeah, that shit needed the game pausing at once and DM to give some hard truths.
Remember violence isn’t the answer…it’s a question
And the answer is YES!
@@NicoBabyman1 *loud explosion*