INSTANT REGRET | Buffy the Vampire Slayer 6x10 "Wrecked" | Normies Group Reaction!
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- Опубліковано 24 кві 2024
- Kinda like The Wire but with magic instead of heroine.
Watch The Normies react to Buffy the Vampire Slayer season 6 episode 10, "Wrecked."
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Rena, I'm gonna want you to put a pin in that whole "Spike has changed" remark when we get closer to the end of this season.
Yeah let's not forget that Spike doesn't have a soul right now he has a chip and that chip is not a substitute for a soul it's just keeping him at Bay he has proven more than one time throughout the series if he didn't have that Chip he would murder and hurt innocent people you guys might want to pay attention to that before,, no spoilers
angel goes on youtube you cowards
Let's not forget that even with Spike's vulnerability and puppy dog eyes, he's still a vampire. lol
@@collinwilliams1020 True but tbf, even before Spike got the chip, he still has glimpses of compassion. Unlike Angelous who is pure evil, no ounce of light.
I agree that Buffy sleeping with Spike is not equivalent to Willow’s drug magic spiral, but I do think it’s relevant that they both left Dawn alone all night because of their obsessions. Whether or not it’s actually an immoral action to sleep with Spike, Buffy feels out of control and irresponsible, and like she can’t trust her own willpower or sense of right and wrong. Both of these young women have always shouldered a lot and behaved very responsibly, and now they’re both cracking under the pressure.
Yeah this is the right answer, it's not because she thinks it's inherently wrong, it's because she loses control around him and doesn't trust herself.
Buffy's situation is equivalent to Willow's in the sense they're both deeply toxic and self destructive.
Dawn is 16/17 years old, not 12. You can leave an almost adult teenager alone in a house for an evening.
@@TheBlarggle I was thinking about that! I think that in normal circumstances, if a teen knew about it, it might be okay to leave them alone for the night. Maybe? I'm not a parent. But in this case it was unplanned, it's a town where terrifying things happen a lot, and Dawn is someone who has had every parent figure in her life disappear at some point. There's also pressure on Buffy and the Scoobies that if they don't take good enough care of her she could be taken away. Buffy feels like it was irresponsible, is the point. They do tend to treat Dawn like she's younger than she is, as if they weren't fighting monsters already at her age, but this season will continue to address that issue, so I won't say more :)
Plus its about how buffy is using unhealthy means to cope just like willow
It's not just that Buffy is ashamed for how she's treating spike... She's also ashamed of sleeping with a murderous vampire who would still be killing if he didn't have a chip. Sleeping with a killer, as a hero, is usually not something to be proud of.
Yeah I don't know if the show really intended how buffy is treating spike to be a bad thing, I think it wanted the fact shes sleeping with a monster to be the focus.
@9TrixieTurner6
Spoilers
She did apology to Spike for the way she was treating him when she finally broke up with him and admitted she felt bad about using him on a couple of scenes. So the show did portray her treatment of him as somewhat bad or at least something she felt bad about and as a mutual abusive relationship. As well as her being with him a soulless evil vampire in first place being very wrong and a low for too of course.
@@lawrenstewart1555 Spoilers
Yeah, pretty sure the show wanted to portray Buffy in an abusive light that time outside the police station (in a few eps). They have a mutual self-loathing problem.
@@9TrixieTurner6 I def think the show was trying to highlight a lot of the negative aspects of Buffy/Spike as a relationship in their current states. I also think it serves as an eye-opener to fans who were very willing to ignore a lot of Spike's earlier behaviors.
@@9TrixieTurner6Yeah, her "using" Spike isn't the bad thing here, because he's still a soulless vampire. He can't make a connection deeper than that, anyway. It's WHY she's doing it, and the fact it's self destructive behavior, that's the issues.
"What's Tara backwards? A RAT!" - Suraj.
You genuinely made me go "woah..."
ME TOO!
Amy: “Am I nothing to you people?”
The first thing that magic was a metaphor for in this show was drugs. Back in season two, we learned that Giles had been a troubled youth doing magic with his friends to get high, and they ended up raising a demon that killed several of his group. Remember that? And when Willow wanted to do the spell to curse Angel with a soul again, Giles was worried that might open a door she wouldn't be able to close. It was only in season 4 that magic became a metaphor for discovering one's non-conforming sexuality. Which, btw, some fans theorize that Giles and Ethan had a romantic relationship in their youth. So maybe it was always both.
Reminder Spike DOES NOT HAVE A SOUL. He is a demon in a human suit. Sure we like him but don't forget what he really is. Also Buffy is using Spike she doesn't love him. This is why she feels ashamed.
There's plenty of debate about the "demon in human suit" part, with most scholars agreeing that the person is the same without "soul" (that being the willpower to choose right over wrong and the capacity to become better), and the demon is just an animalistic and violent influence on the vampire (as seen in the Pylea arch and even back in "The Dark Age"). But yes, Buffy is using Spike and does not love him
No, there's no debate. The person is not the same without the soul and we know that for a fact with Spike. A soulless creature is not the same as a souled one. Spike also doesn't have free will. That doesn't mean his person would change completely but he would be equipped with the ability to understand human emotions a lot better and to make good and humane decisions.@@bernardsoul5186
@@bernardsoul5186 this. Everything we learn about angelus & darla in the Angel series puts that demon possession angle in question
Not everybody is a fan of Spike
@@BarbaraYaga Spoilers
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Does it really ? Because having a soul doesn't guaranty you'll act good ! But the soul plays a part nonetheless. And it's shown to change a lot. For Angel, for Darla... I mean, yes Spike can make decisions that would be considered good without a soul. But it's not something he does purely out of the goodness of his heart. It's always actually only for his benefit. And he also reverts to bad any chance he got... Like when he thought the chip was broken last episode... He does "good" because of Buffy, and how she would feel if he did something bad, or to protect himself, or to have fun (like killing demons) etc... At least, with a soul, you have a conscience. Even if you choose the bad path, you make the decisions with that in mind. Without... it's not that easy. I actually believe the shows always have made it clear that even if the personality of a vampire can be similar, the soul changes a lot of things.
I mean, even when Angel is at his worst with a soul, he is still WAYYYY nicer than Angelus could ever be at his nicest. Angelus is actually the big bad I would be the more scared of in all of the Buffyverse... oO
So a soul, even shared, is better than none in the Buffyverse, in my opinion. It's always been shown in Buffy or Angel. Like with Darla who shared Connor's soul, and that what made her make the right decision. Not sure if she would have if she was not influenced by it. Actually... I'm pretty sure she wouldn't have knowing her past lives and decisions... We saw how she was with Angelus... It's not because a demon can feel without a soul, that it means those feelings are pure or capable of replacing a soul. At least, that's my take. I don't remember anything that would be so big, that would make me think otherwise. But I'm happy to hear about your opinion more. Because that's an interesting subject ^^ Of course, only if you want to
This is the kind of magic that Giles and his blokes used to do, the kind that got one of them killed.
the actor pkaying Rack ( Jeff Krober) also played Zachary Kralik in Season 3 episode Helpless where Buffy was "poisoned" by Giles to weaken her for the coming of age test when she turned 18.
He also plays Joe in The Walking Dead and Rick, in a turn of the tables, ends up biting HIS neck.
I have always loved him. He was a prisoner in Supernatural also. He's one of those actors you see in everything. He's even a regular in General Hospital now.
He was also a recurring character in Sons of Anarchy.
And he now plays Cyrus on General Hospital. He's not a demon, a witch, or a vampire, but he's not a nice guy, though he swears he's been rehabilitated in prison.
He’s a sexy psychopath.
The fact that Suraj has the OMWF soundtrack downloaded and memorized the lyrics had me grinning ear to ear
I wish they would’ve continued the sing-alongs, like they did with Rocky Horror. I’d love to see them all go to a OMWF sing-along at a theater.
Also, poop on whatever parent company stopped it, right as it was starting to build up some steam.
@1:23 "Call me a 7-Eleven baby" holy SHIT chris
This is the season of sadness, and still my favorite season because it’s raw and real. Can’t wait for y’all to get much further into it
Humans are the real enemies which is awesome.
@@chaost4544 To be fair, we've seen plenty of that in the previous seasons.
One of my favorite episodes! Alyson Hannigan knocks it out of the park!!!
When she breaks down sobbing that she needs help, it always makes me cry. 😭
My god, Alyson Hannigan is such a great crier! Willow has always been my favorite character since the beginning but she has definitely crossed so, so many lines. Yet every time she's sad, especially in this episode when she was begging Buffy for help, I just can't help feeling more sorry rather than angry with her. My heart breaks to a million pieces.
Alyson Hannigan is SUCH a good crier. She really makes you feel her pain.
I love the body language that James Marsters has when he has his hands around SMG’s neck. It’s a loving embrace, but ends with his hands rolled into interlocking fists at the end. It’s a mix of sweet and powerful body language. It shows that being with Spike is passionate, but ultimately still a dangerous cage that prevents Buffy from escaping her trauma.
I think Buffy is using Spike as a way to distract herself or a form of escapism or something? A coping mechanism? She felt alone and he was the only person she could open up to and relate to.. I dunno.
Agree. Buffy lost her drive after returning to life. She's trying to be grateful for being back with her loved ones, but she can't deny the loss of heaven. And she was nearly burnt out prior to sacrificing herself. Now that she's back, she has to come to terms with her prior unresolved desire for rest. There's no time to process, and the only one who can kind of relate is Spike. Being with him is like a temporary relief from her remorse and guilt - except she doesn't like being that person (not even to Spike), and she shouldn't neglect Dawn.
Spoilers
One thing that bums me out about this series is that Buffy's arc feels incomplete. She has the therapy episode, and the climactic "finally gets to do what she wants" moment, but she doesn't seem to ever answer the question about her own self-worth. She keeps finding her value in reference to others - sister, friends, lover, world. Just my two cents.
Considering she only knows one other person who died, and can relate to being "different" after returning to life. (Or undeath, in this case.)
Buffy experienced something in Heaven that no one can fathom and she is using sex as a way to compensate i.e. sex addiction. And no it's not exactly the same drug addiction but it can be just as harmful and destructive. And Spike is so lonely that he doesn't care that he's being used.
There's a lot to unpack in this season.
I mean, she had sex with him _once._ And if it's the way you describe, she's using sex as methadone for withdrawals, the addiction is heaven.
Indeed. Willows is just further along. She's already reached the danger point. Buffy only just began so she's still at the start of what could lead to worse than just fucking spike and leaving dawn alone at home. Sex addicts can go just as far. Addiction is dangerous even with the most healthy things. Too much water can be fatal after all.
Dang. "What is Tara backwards? A RAT!" I almost spit out my drink.
"That's why vampires hate Italians" I don't know why, but that made me LMAO.
I feel like you all are missing a lot of the key parts of the Buffy/Spike dynamic. I think it’s because you see Spike as an actually changed person. Like he became a hero. He did not. He’s still the same evil vampire who gets off on killing. The singular second that he thought the chip was broken he sought someone to kill. He hasn’t changed. He still lacks a soul and is still a killer. The only difference is that now his entire being is consumed with Buffy. Every good action ties back to Buffy in some way. He hasn’t learned empathy or compassion for anyone not named Summers. He just likes the way that the Summers women makes him feel. He isn’t capable of selfless love or respecting life in general. He’s obsessed with Buffy and relished the fact that Buffy came back “wrong” so he could use that to bring her down to his level.
Buffy feels disgusted because she’s using a murderous monster to take her mind off of her own problems. It’s not about love or intimacy. It’s about reckless abandon in order to forget her pain. Her relationship with Spike is a bright flame that burns hot, but quick. It’s not sustainable and it’s ultimately self-destructive as it can’t lead to any healthy, productive partnership.
Wait. Spike loved Dru and in season 7, we learn that he loved his mother so much that he wanted to turn her. Spike was able to feel empathy like we see in Entropy in his conversations with Anya or when he help Tara in Family . Spike is an anomaly as a vampire
Spike cried when Buffy died and chose to protect Dawn afterwards. He got nothing out of keeping his promise to Buffy, yet he still looked after Dawn. That's not something "murderous monsters" do.
I only noticed on a recent rewatch that his obsession with Buffy became sexual when he failed to get rid of the chip. It really was just transferring the obsession with killing her to possessing/claiming her another way.
@@sugardaresThat prompts a further deliberation on the nature of evil.
@@sugardares Yes at the beginning but in the ep 7 he become really compassionate with her and in ep 18, you can tell he's really in love with her
“It’s a metaphor. Drugs.”
Are you sure? I feel like they should’ve made it more clear.
Oooh Suraj with a keen eye for foreshadowing.
Oh I was impressed when I caught that
I missed it. Timestamp?
2:29
Perhaps delete this to avoid spoiling
Too late now, it's been a month. Some people just can't help themselves and need that 'Like' hit, a bit like Willow needed magic this episode.
@@prometheus3498
He did not change. He thought the chip stopped working and the first thing he tried to do was kill someone last episode
Actually, Buffy degraded him because of her own issues, then he went out to prove something to her and himself, except he couldn't just do it, he had to psyche himself up. So you're wrong
@@spikesecho724he did have to talk himself into it but it worked. The chip stopped him. The chip wouldn’t have worked if he didn’t have malicious intent.
@@daphneglasurus7886 I didn't make an argument that he wouldn't have done it. It's an argument that he hesitated and had to rationalize doing it, which shows a change in behavior and decision making. Most people try to argue this event shows he hasn't changed, and that's simply not true. He has. Doesn't mean he's good though.
@@daphneglasurus7886He didn't talk him self into risking the pain, he talked himself into trying to hurt someone. That says there's more to being evil than soul/no soul.
@@spikesecho724 He couldn't do it because the chip wouldn't let him. Not y'all creating fanfiction to defend a vampire doing what vampires do.
Years and years watching BTVS and I never saw that Tara backwards is “A Rat” I screamed 😂🫠 nice catch there
Willow drove a car by gesturing emphatically.
I never linked it to Anya in Restless but now I will xD
No matter how many times I watch this episode, I still get teary eyed. Alyson did what she had to do in the acting department.
yeah she's a good actress but this analogy still sucks my ass
When the souless psychotic homicidal vampire is disapointed on you, you know you efed up.
Rack gives out pure black magic. The thing is magic, well that much gives you incredible power but is also incredibly addictive, and you can lose yourself in it as well.
edit: It is not stated but he is a very powerful warlock. Yes he was tasting Willows power and getting off on it as well.
Power being addictive is normal. Who wants to be less powerful after all?
@@Merilirem Yep. I would embrace it personally.
This was an episode entirely about addiction - Willow to magic and Buffy to sex. While Willow's was the obvious kind, especially when shown to the audience, Buffy's was one that you might not necessarily think is bad. Sure, both she and Spike are consenting adults, but at the same time, Buffy doesn't necessarily want to engage in it with Spike, yet, whenever he comes around and gives her just the tiniest push, she gives in. Willow's addiction made her feel powerful at first, but because of everything she lost before things got really bad, she began to feel empty. Buffy felt either empty or incomplete and alone because she was going through something she felt none of those around her could understand, and Spike's timing was perfect for her to have an outlet. She wasn't looking for sex, but that's what it turned into, to the point where she's showing up late or even missing out on things because her new activity is interfering with what she's supposed to be doing. It just never got as bad as Willow's issue, which is why, for a brief moment, Buffy could scold her for what she's done, only to realize that she was heading down the same route. She gets to stop it before it becomes so bad, or at the very least, reevaluate why and whether or not it's something she really wants to engage in further.
as much as willow made me mad at her, as soon as she broke down I just wanted buffy to hug her...even if she didn't necessarily deserve buffy's forgiveness because she put dawn in danger my instinct to comfort a human in pain kinda kicks in...With Spike, He's a vampire, he's souless, he does love buffy in his own way and buffy is using the fact that he loves her as an escape. She knows he won't betray her because she knows he does have legit feelings as much as buffy hates to admit and she hates herself for using those feelings.
Remember Giles telling Buffy about forgiveness in "I Only Have Eyes For You"? She has maybe internalized it to some extent.
Rupert Giles: "To forgive is an act of compassion, Buffy. It's-it's... it's not done because people deserve it. It's done because they need it."
Casual sex isn’t a morally bad thing but doing so with someone you hate is a type of self harm
I don't think the audience (at least the ones you're responding to) can imagine hating Spike. He's a good character.
The banter between Spike and Buffy is top tier.
Not the most subtle storyline but where it leads is simply some of the best Buffy
Spike the Impaler
Anyone remember geeky innocent Willow from season 1 and 2?
no 😜
The Willow who had to be dragged off campus for lunch even though it was allowed. 😂
The Buffy and Spike relationship is toxic and violent for both of them. All they do is treat each other like shit. Buffy is just using Spike because she is depressed and angry about being alive again. The only time she feels anything is with Spike, so she would rather feel anything than nothing. Spike loves Buffy kind of like a serial killer loves someone which makes sense since he doesn't have a soul and is only somewhat not a monster because of the chip. What I think Spike feels is love is actually obsession to the max.
THANK YOU!! Can we please send this comment to all of their email boxes in bold black font so they can get it completely??!
*****SPOILERS******
I feel like they’re going to get to “Seeing Red” and some of them still won’t get it. Smh
Yep
@@notyouraveragebear9326 aight, you need to calm tf down lol
Spike is in love with Buffy, if not he wouldn't stay with the scoobies in the beginning of season 6 and protecting Dawn. People who feels obsession don't do this kind of things. And if he wasn't in love with her, he wouldn't do what he did in the end of season 6 (don't want to spoil the normies but real fans knows). And everything he did by season 5 final arc, just prove me that he was in love with her. His love for her is kind of twisted but still genuine love.
@@notyouraveragebear9326 Spike is in love with Buffy, if not he wouldn't stay with the scoobies in the beginning of season 6 and protecting Dawn. People who feels obsession don't do this kind of things. And if he wasn't in love with her, he wouldn't do what he did in the end of season 6 (don't want to spoil the normies but real fans knows). And everything he did by season 5 final arc, just prove me that he was in love with her. His love for her is kind of twisted but still genuine love.
Stop resuming Spike and Buffy relationship to this scene. You're not a real fans because if you were, you would know everything that proves that Spike is in love with her
Spike doesn’t have a soul and he is still able to care and be loving. He is still able to take care of Dawn and be there for Buffy. He felt guilt and trepidation before trying to test-bite that girl. Evil Angelus could never.
This!!
Hey, just a heads up. You guys are watching in 16:9 when it was intended to be viewed in 4:3. Because of this, there is a scene in the next episode that is affected by this. You’ll know it when you see it, and you’ll probably criticize it and blame it on production, but it’s really just because you’re watching in the wrong dimension.
I was all hating on Willow but as soon as I saw Alyson Hannigan crying then I'm screaming "She needs to be protected 😢"
Ah yes, the old "white woman tears" tactic
@@bernardsoul5186 Use what you got.
@@bernardsoul5186 It doesn't work on me all the time but there is something with Alyson Hannigan crying scenes that just gets to me
@@allenpayne927 when she cries in The Body right before that first on-screen kiss, when she breaks up with Oz for good, and at the end of the season 6 finale, those ones get me. But in this episode, to me, it comes off as a defensive maneuver, but that's the fault of the writers, I guess, because until now, magic hadn't really been a drug metaphor 🤷🏼♀️
@@bernardsoul5186it’s not about “white woman tears” it’s about having empathy
One of the best episodes and arcs of the show and my favorite season!
I want to recommend the new AMC show Interview With The Vampire it's so amazing, one of the best new shows in recent years, I would love to see The Normies react to it. Season 1 is only 7 episodes. Season 2 is gonna premiere on May 12th. Thank you for reading my suggestion🤗
Another fantastic episode.
Excellent review and good pick ups on the darkness. There is more to reveal with Buffy but remember that a subplot for Buffy is her duality Soon the parallels that Buffy is experiencing will allow the examination of the duality of the 2 other characters that Buffy must experience and understand to complete her journey
I see why people don't like the mixed metaphors, but the way I see it, magic is used throughout the series as a metaphor for Willow's character arc - in season 4, that was her sexuality, now, it's her addictive tendancies.
Loving seeing Jeff Kober aka Claimer Joe - "The Walking Dead | Jacob Hale Jr. - "Sons of Anarchy" as Rack in this episode.
And Kralik in season 3's 'Helpless'.
Buffy can relate to Willow because of the shame and lack of control. Buffy in this season is addicted to self harm, she is extremely depressed and hates herself. Buffy prefers feeling shame and paint to not feeling anything after being in heaven and feeling eternal joy. Spike feeds Buffy with more self deprecating notions, telling her she is bad, and she came back wrong and Buffy believes it. Spike is after all a vampire with no soul and his idea of love is corrupted love, like it was with Drusila.
Lets not forget Spike a soulless killer who wouldnt hesitate to kill again if it wasnt for the chip.
Buffy is in immense emotional turmoil and pain and is using spike like a drug to distract her from that.
Its wrong and she knows it.
Willow taking Dawn to a crack house is the lowest she's ever been in this series.
Rough episode🤨............If I remember, someone commented about you guys should be prepared for season 6. And we are only at episode 10.
The thing with Spike is that it's a toxic relationship. And it's made even worse since Spike is able to physically hurt her now. She knows Spike can kill her at any moment but she can't seem to stop uhhh "making herself vulnerable" to him. It's very much like an abusive relationship. Where the woman can sense that he's gonna kill her one day but she just can't get away from him.
Yooooo 12:27 y’all had me on the floor dying lol
Gotta say, Suraj was on fire this episode!
Willow used Magic as a bandaid for her own perceived shortcomings... Buffy is using Spike in a similar way...
Screaming ! 8:51 🤣🤣
J.D. Peralta was writer Marti Noxon's assistant, apparently much loved by everyone.
Counter to every other comment screamig that Spike is soulless and evil, the couch is absolutely right. Storywise, he's *well* established as a sovereign person with personhood. He's coded as a person. Reinforced primarily by Buffys treatment of him as such since late season 5. And to have Buffy then repeatedly give, then take away, that personhood left and right, degrading him (not even because he's warranted it somehow, just purely because of her own demons rn)....its disgusting. Its domestic abuse. Threatening to kill him if he tells anyone of their relationship is the lynch pin in the domestic abuser metaphor. Spike being soulles and Buffy suffering mental health issues...neither of those things remotely excuse it. But those are the excuses people endlessly make for it because they either hate spike and/or they cant hold buffy accountable for herself because they stan her too hard.
Wrecked is of course a pivotal episode, where we see addiction to magic overcoming Willow, and to some extent Buffy as well with her addiction to sex with Spike, even though she hates herself for doing it. S6 is such a departure from the earlier Seasons, as due to the network change we can really see how more adult the show is in tone. Dawn becomes collateral damage in Willow's addiction, and when Willow says to Buffy in the bedroom 'it will never happen again' we just know it wont be the end of this. Great acting by Alyson Hannigan, it's hard to believe the sweet, innocent Willow from S1 could end up like this, but that is the nature of addiction. Great writing from Marti Noxon who also wrote some of the best episodes of Grey's Anatomy and Mad Men.
I remember the reviews of this episode, and the magic=addiction story line, being pretty brutal. People were not happy at all. I think there's been a reappraisal of the season overall since, but it's still a tough watch.
Well, yeah, addiction isn't a gently sad thing that happens and you get over it quickly. Addiction IS brutal. Painful. A danger to ones life and the lives of those around them. I'm glad that they didn't go easy on it.
Interesting conversation 🤔
Buffy is addicted to her toxic relationship with spike, people do get addicted to certain relationships, especially when its abusive
Yeah i can tell rn u guys r NOT ready for the rest of this season
They're gonna lose their minds in 9 episodes.
@@TheBlarggle
So did most of the fandom. Really interested to see how the Normies react to it.
@@Ren_Davis0531 which is funny/weird because as a 16 year old boy I couldn't really grasp the depths of what was happening but as a man going on 40 I understand it. These subjects weren't meant for kids.
@@DallasHustla2000this isn't meant to be offensive but, you must have lived a fairly sheltered life by that time. By 16 I had dealt with both of the things that are being hit by this episode. These themes are absolutely able to be understood by mid/late teens. The major difference between the way this show hits it, it is fairly raw. Not too many shows that deal with these themes that hit the young adult demographic, at least around the time this show did, would have definitely not done it like this.
Buffy is with Spike because she is so very depressed after coming back from heaven. She feels empty. She doesn't actually have feelings for him. She is using him to try and feel better.
My name is Willow and I am magic addict.
It’s going to hit the normies so hard when they finally realize what it means that Spike doesn’t have a Soul.
I can’t believe they still complain about & hate Angel, but LOVE Spike.
Wdym, realize? There's always been questionable choices with characterization, but it's not a show that makes conclusive statements
@@alicequinn505i don’t know what you’re talking about. There was literally a episode last season where Spike tied Buffy up, and threatened to let Drucilla kill her if she didn’t say he had a chance w/ her. Spike did that with the chip in his head. Spike not being able to actually be good, because he doesn’t have a soul has always been obvious. They are to wrapped up in how much they love his character.
It’s not incongruent; Buffy and co. just understand the nature of vampires in-universe better than you do. Spike has been one of their most dangerous enemies for over 5 years now. He’s tried at various times to kill each one of them, plotted to destroy the world several times and is by nature a soulless demon. Buffy suddenly admitting she’s fucking him would hit painfully on a lot of levels for all of them.
If you had asked me before this reaction, I could have sworn Rack was played by Eric Roberts
Willow = Addiction tMagic (drugs)
Buffy = Addiction to Toxic Relationship she has with Spike.
This season is dark, deeper and more focus on the human side. More I rewatch this season, more I love it! You gonna be surprised by the end of the season 6
I remember the first time I saw this season, I found the whole Willow storyline really frustrating. Just because it felt like they were beating us over the head with the drug addict parallel to her magic addiction. I don't mind them showing that she's growing too powerful for her to control, I like that story idea, but to make it like some sort of afterschool special like "don't do drugs / magic, kids" just bugged me. It was too much.
Dudes, the theme of this season, as Whedon said at the beginning, is “Oh grow up” which is why the metaphors are literalised, as they often become in young adulthood, and which is why Buffy can see similarities between her life and Willow’s at this point. Speaking of growing up...
It is very sad that Will has sunk this low... she has always been my favourite character in the show & it's hard to see her this broken.
5:35- this is how I see it.
Magic/ doing spells w/
another person/multiple people = Sex
Magic/ doing stronger more spells more frequently = drugs/addiction
I feel like all of this was hinted at in the Giles centric episode 2x08 Dark Ages.
If there's anything I learned from Eurphoria, it's that "rock bottom" is never rock bottom. Addiction comes in waves. You can have periods where you are off the drugs, but relapsing is not uncommon.
I think it's more about Buffy relating her using Spike to fill the void or feel better about having been pulled out of heaven to Willow turning to magic to feel better about her situation with Tara. A lot of drug abuse comes from people just trying not to feel bad anymore. And that can extend to Buffy being with Spike. Like her last line in Once More With Feeling, "This isn't real, but I just wanna feel." She is chasing a high that makes her feel normal and Spike is just convenient.
Ya'll, it's just gonna get awkward and traumatizing from here on out. The true big bad of the season is self sabotage kids
Great reaction, S5 is heavy stuff but I love it 😅
*6
obviously all the dirty talk had to revolve around the BIG bad.
Honestly Suraj has a point. All of this X-men 97 talk needs to cool down. Let the group figure out what all the hype is all about with X-men, tales of the empire and the bad batch once they finish wrapping up rebels 😅😅😅😅😅😅
Buffy: *struggling to pay for the house, with literally 3 hoarders living in it, not to mention, being back from the dead*
Willow: oh yeahhh, time to do some druuuuugs
"This shit is heavy handed" 100%! When magic was a shortcut, an escape from hardship, a lazy solution to Willows problems it was perfect. Something stops being an allegory once you literally just turn it into the thing you're discussing, robs it of any resonance.
Giles in s2x08 "I used to use magic to get high all the time"
no it doesn’t
It continues her character arch, always looking for approval, not being cautious enough with the magick
Where is X-Men 97
See this is how u no the normies don't know who X-Men is
Spidey and Chris are pretty much the only members who have seen the original X-men series. As far as I know 🙄🙄🙄
Half of them have seen the original X-men and two Deadpool movies. Not everyone reads the comic book or watched the animated series (1992,2003,and 2010-2011)
Will all reactors make it to the end of this season? Taking all bets 😜 Rana? Marketa? Pat?
Heh they have to, it is essential.
Suraj will probably end up being absent for one of the most pivotal and key episodes in the whole show. He's good like that.
It's not someone else's job to fulfill you it's your's. Then you share your complete self with others.
buffy wasnt there to watch dawn bc she was getting railed by spike....
Spike love without his soul angel cannot do that , that why spike is my favorite.
I don't get the forgiveness and love some people have for Willow even after she raped Tara. With Under Your Spell that was literally what it was. She gave Tara the magical equivalent of a date rape drug so she would forget the reasons she didn't want to/consent to being with Willow. She erased her memories to make her compliant and then had sex with her during UYS and people minimize it because it was within a so called loving relationship, it wasn't violent, and Tara appeared to enjoy it. Responding to physical stimulation isn't consent and honestly sometimes it's harder to deal with abuse/rape within a loving relationship and Tara's more likely to feel like it's her fault and she shouldn't have ptsd symptoms/call ir what it is because of that confusion. Violent assault is easy to qualify, what Willow did to Tara a lot of people see as grey, which againwould make it harder for Tara to cope with. I get Spike still doesn't have a soul but Willow did worse with a soul and Spike has been protecting the people Buffy loves. Willow almost killed Dawn. I feel bad for her dealing with addiction, but she should take accountability.
“Buffy’s mean to spike” I remember when y’all were so opposed to them ever getting together and spike was literally going to kill humans a few episodes back but god forbid Buffy not be nice to the monster 👀 while dealing with extreme trauma which is the ONLY reason she has degraded herself to the point of allowing anything to happen with spike, needing an extreme distraction in order to deal with her existence. But oh no spikes fee fees get hurt! Be so fr y’all. “It’s abuse” IS IT?! Is it abuse to give the killer what he wants minus the pleasantries?! Y’all too much on spikes dck during this season but I guess that been the case since y’all skit 😂
“It’s unforgivable” so Willow putting dawn in slight danger is unforgivable but hurting the murderous monsters feelings… y’all SILLY!
Would Buffy have ever consented to Spike if she wasn’t in the amount of pain she is in????? Absolutely not. Her pain coerces her into doing it, her and Willow are comparable. And Buffy can’t stop even tho she wants to. Y’all’s feelings for spike cloud ur judgement.
Buffy and Spike is wrong because Spike is evil and doesnt have a soul. And should be her mortal enemy. That's why she's hiding it from her friends.
Willow's magic addiction and Buffy's thing with Spike ARE the same. They're self destructive coping mechanisms. Buffy doesn't care for Spike, she doesn't even *like* Spike. It's just that's the only time she *feels anything.* Even if it's loathing, it's emotion. It's better than the emptiness she feels the rest of the time.
Do you really think she's doing it to feel loathing? how would that even work?
@@alicequinn505 She literally feels self loathing after. They straight up show that.
@@xyex I thought you meant that the reason she slept with Spike is to feel loathing for him, because she doesn't care for him or like him, but at least she can feel hatred towards him. Are you saying this is the only way she is able to hate herself? What else does she feel while doing it?
@@alicequinn505 There is, of course, the physical sensation during the act. There's also probably some recognition that it's wrong in the moment, which would perhaps carry some level of emotion.
But if it was JUST the pleasure aspect, she could do that on her own at home. And if it was JUST the wrongness aspect, there's a lot of other options. So it seems to me that the main driving force behind her going back again and again is how she feels AFTER. Which is a lot of self loathing.
Personally I think it is more complex than that.
I think in part she goes to Spike as a way of being able to get out of that damned house and all her responsibilities, and knows that at least there she can lose herself and forget about every damn thing for a while. Staying home, I doubt she'd feel alone enough to get herself off, too worried about someone else barging in or even just hearing her, and too easily distracted by hearing someone else around.
I think she literally wants to lose herself for a while, to get away from everything that matters - and Spike, in a way, doesn't matter like everyone else, or at least that's maybe what she tells herself, or feels. With Spike she can lose herself in sex so completely she doesn't even notice the building getting demolished by the two of them. No difficult decisions, no responsibility, heck, no thinking at all, just sensation.
And afterwards, she feels guilt, remorse, disgust at herself, self-loathing, shame, etc. And she tells Spike "never again" - but she may be lying to herself, it wouldn't be the first time.
Also, Spike is the one person she can hit as hard as she wants, and he won't object, he'll just hit back. Violence as foreplay - it is twisted, it is abusive, it is wrong, but she feels she deserves it. 😓 Spike just accepts it as a show of affection - because violence as foreplay is natural to him. He doesn't see how much Buffy is hurting herself with this behavior - he's wanted her for a long time, now he has her, and he's okay with how that goes.
I don't think Buffy is addicted to the sex itself, but to the relief she gets from the rest of the world, the world that still hurts almost continuously, compared to how she felt in heaven, the world that is asking her to do more adulting than she's ever had to do before, despite being sunk in depression.
Please react and watch X-Men 97 please
I've always felt that this episode was way too on the nose. It was clearly modeled after various After School Specials and Very Special Episodes that we grew up with. Magic may have been used as a metaphor for drugs previously, but Willow wasn't showed using it to get high until Amy showed up.
Willow's problem with magic is that she uses it as a short cut and she uses it on people without their consent.
This isn't a thoughtful portrayal of addiction. This is some D.A.R.E. propaganda. You use drugs (Rack's particular brand of magic) and you are instantly addicted and can't control yourself and someone gets badly hurt. Like literally there is a Seventh Heaven episode where someone smokes pot and gets into a car accident and dies.
Buffy has riffed on a lot of pop culture, so the resemblance to Very Special Episodes must be intentional. But it's a terrible choice for this subject matter, especially when we're supposed to take it seriously.
(Alyson Hannigan acts the hell out of it, though.)
The equivalency here is not so much what they are doing but what they are feeling and how those feelings are driving them into situations that neither really want to be in as a means to cope with those feelings. Pre-messing with Tara's memory, the only clue we as the audience get that the magic thing is a problem is Tara saying it is bad and Willow saying that she could quit any time she wants. In that way, it was a bit heavy-handed. But once Willow is in full grief mode, she goes off the deep end. Buffy has been grieving her loss of peace and dealing with the hell that is life, knowing there is rest out there, just not for her unless she abandons everyone including Dawn. Both lost their peace and are doing dumb things to forget about it just for a short time. Just more proof that the BBEG in this one is Life itself.
i'm probably in the minority here but Willow's storyline is my favorite thing about Season 6.
Same for me, but also the most sad. Back when this season aired on TV, specific things which I won't spoil ripped my heart and my gut out and I legit cried with Willow in front of the TV.
Season 6 is my favourite.
Buffy went to Spike because she was low, he used it and persisted unrelentlessly. If someone wants to leave after sex, i don't care if that person is hurting the others feelings, trying to stop them from leaving, not taking no for an answer is wrong, and any non slayer would be freaked out in that situation. That says all you should need to understand what has happened in those scenes.
It'll hit different on a rewatch.
I find it really off putting that they're not getting this on a first watch.
Consensual sex is not equivalent to drug or alcohol addiction, but Buffy is having sex with a soulless vampire (which is what Spike is, inhibitor chip or no). There is an element of danger to it, especially when you consider Buffy and Spike were beating each other up as foreplay and destroyed a house. Overall, it's not really even about the sex itself, it's about Buffy feeling lost and not feeling like herself.
Correct but even before it meant being gay we had the Giles episode where it meant drugs in season 2. There are other reasons you might want to equate her relationship with Spike to drugs there is such a thing as an abusive relationship and he's literally a monster so
Yeah lol they aren't the normies for nothing. But yeah that's what I immediately thought when I watched the last episode, like does anyone remember Giles saying he was getting high by letting demons possess him.
Giles did indeed use magic to get high. He also would get high with Ethan Rayne, and they’d make out.
I believe the actors, before passing, stated he played the character as having feelings for Giles.
So there we go. He have magic as euphemism for both drugs and gay shenanigans as far back as season 2.
@@arc7375 I hadn't heard that but I always got those vibes.
"Spike, I want you to impale me!" "Oh I will impale you, alright, love!" "Harder, Spike, harder! You're not doing enough impaling!" "Get out the stake, love, it will motivate me to impale you harder and faster." 🤣
so the shoes on the bed always bugged me too but keep in mind its a set. like would you really want to be walking in socks on a set everyone is walking over
Buffy is becoming more and more like Faith.
She’s become markedly more detached, cold and hollow, developing a deeper and deeper sense of isolation, self loathing and is using violent sex as a means of control, uncaring who she’s using.
I mean Buffy literally came back from the dead, so it’s understandable. It’s not really surprising how she is acting. Also she still is grappling with her morals when she is doing this.
"Being a slayer is turning me into stone" that's so deep
@@mizzdiiva92Buffy’s isolated from her friends and family. The love and support that was the key to Buffy’s longevity and success is waning. And Faith was conceived as Buffy and what her life would be like without her support network.
Stripping that away, she becomes more like Faith. And this has been happening naturally since season 5. Her death and resurrection does play a major factor, but this process and her descent has been slowly creeping up on her for a while now.
Likewise, as Buffy becomes more like Faith, in Angel, Faith is poetically becoming more like Buffy.
I'm not sure I'd call, as the title states it "instant regret." I think this is more her realization of how far she's fallen. Which is why it's too soon for forgiveness towards her.
Spike doesn't have a soul. That's something people tend to forget because he's so charasmatic. He's a demon in a human suit with the memories of the human suit it's in. It twists those human memories into thing unpure and tained and can make them look good. Him doing good doesn't mean he is. He isn't Angelus, but he isn't good, either. William'S memories have convnced him he can be, but that isn't so and we are seeing. The audience liking him doesn't change any of this.
Buffy is using Spike; she doesn't love him. This is why she feels ashamed.
Magic being a metaphor for drugs is something I have seen some fans struggle with. But it was unofficially introduced in S1, and directly stated in S2. The show doesn't explicitly state it until _The Dark Age_ when Giles talks about how he once got high and dreams about a specific badness it led to. But an obvious argument can be made that S6 Willow is no better than Amy's mom from episode three, who is literally addicted to the magic, but it isn't stated directly.
Willow's storyline is Amy's storyline in S2 and S3 was. Her being a rat just put it on hold. Looking back at Amy during that time, the same signs are there. You could even argue a head canon situation with Amy's mom, as I stated in the last paragraph.
Both drug and sex metaphors are at play at this point in Willow's story.
Mickey: "How is this magic?" In that moment you were seeing Willow's reaction to it, not the magic itself Rack was giving Willow to feed off her.
Suraj: "This is like an addiction now." It's been an addiction since her first spell. This is just the worst of it. The turning points in said addiction were trying to take on Glory in revenge (which was the first time she had black eyes) and resurrecting Buffy. It may have been a metaphor for lesbianism, but Willow has been addicted aka had a problem from the beginning.
Tara backwards is a rat. I liked that as a joke.
I can totally see Rana slipping up what she meant to say it the way Dawn did. I find it endearing, which just makes me laugh at the fact that Rana disliked Dawn in the beginning.
I think Buffy should have taken Dawn home and left Willow to cry in the street or with Spike or called another person in the group to come get her. After what Willow does to Dawn, The Normies are right in it being unforgivable, but if she wants forgiveness, get away from Dawn. Dawn should have been Buffy's priority. Willow becomes a victim to her own addiction in this episode for the first time *_only_* because she finally takes responsibility for said issue(s). But Dawn should still be Buffy's priority. Buffy is Dawn's guardian. Willow should move out of Revello Drive considering her actions. Buffy has a legal responsibility with social services. If they find out Willow is in the house after this episode, it won't matter if they know about magic or not, Willow was high on it and this wasn't a don't take Dawn to the hospital situation. They had no choice.
I agree. It may be a toxic situation between Buffy and Spike with her using him and him being soulles, but Buffy relating to Willow's junkie situation doesn't work in this instance. Buffy's comparing addiction to depression. And I don't think she addicted to having sex with him or even needing to be around him because she can barely stomach being around those that pulled her out of heaven or because she hates herself or because she feels like she can relate to Spike. She making comparisons with Willow more because she's a good friend even when she should be a little distant for the protection of Dawn, herself, and others. Marketa is also right with Buffy feeling shame. But its not about the sex its about why she wants it. And until she comes to grips whith those issues depression will be her master. That's all 100% different than what Willow is going through.
Suraj, the whole season is on the nose. It's theme is the failure to grow up.
In _The West Wing,_ an alcoholic character describes a situation where he states he will always be an addict even if clean for the remainder of his days. That's how I feel about Willow. I've never really trusted her with magic because she always ignored advice to be careful and not play around, and her spells didn't always work correctly. And now she's been down this road there's that hesitancy of wondering if she will relapse? That all equals addict for life concerning Willow and magic.
It's amazing that they just ignore the fact that ONE EPISODE AGO, Spike immediately tried to eat someone the minute he thought his chip stopped working. He's not a good person, not at all. Their failure to pick up on this doesn't bode well for the rest of this season
The show is literally so on the nose about Spike still being bad.
Makes it incredibly difficult to watch them for this stretch/take any of their takes seriously.
You mean when he had to talk himself into it for 15 min beforehand?