If you have a Micro Center nearby (in the US), you can get a new Ryzen 3600 for $75 plus $20 off a mobo, which makes a combo with an a520 $120 total. Really a shame that Micro Center doesn't have more locations.
I wish aus had a large retailer like that which could give us wholesale prices. All we need is a big enough US based company like that to bulk ship, that the aus gov doesn't tax into the goddamn ground because of being 'foreign'. We're so close diplomatically that It would benefit both countries greatly. It's sad.
i upgraded from amd fx 8320 to this ryzen 5 4500 for around $80. runs great. manual OCed to 4.3 at 1.2v stable all cores cinebench without breaking a sweat in 32+ degree Celsius ambient summer heat.
I just got a used 3900x for $135 with the RGB cooler, I love Zen 2 parts for some reason. I've got a 13600K and 4070 Ti, and I find myself getting more enjoyment out of older budget stuff for some reason lol. Love the Vid man
Its more rewarding to pry performance out of cheap parts than expensive one. My GOAT tweaking cpu was a very late diffused [early 2016] FX8300 I got free out of a dead HP with a bad psu. The cherry to end all cherries; all core overclock 4.85GHZ at 1.25v [!], NT/HT/DDR3 2600mhz @1.3v soc.... faster than an FX-9590 thanks to having a far better memory controller while pulling 35% less power at the wall. Doubled it's fps Warhammer II skaven bench with maxed units. Don't daily that machine, it was only ever a toy... But that there is an AMD FX being held back by a GTX 1070ti and would kerbstomp an overclocked i5 2500k in any demanding game made in the last 6 years is hilarious.
@@rabbychan The post was about the 3900x that I got for a budget price.. You'd have to be an absolute idiot to, read that comment and comprehend that I said a 13600K and 4070 Ti are budget parts..
@@anasevi9456 That's awesome man, I've also got a 12400f that I BCLK oc'd to 5.3ghz and 3600 CL13 ram. Its 41ns in Intel MLC (bc Aida64 doesn't work when you use BCLK) and its faster than a stock 12600k. Its paired with a 6800 XT. I've got a problem with buying too many pc parts lol
Thanks for focussing on power consumption as well in your videos. It might interest people more than the current state of the industry thinks...talking about Intel and Nvidia mostly ;). Great video and comparison - as always. Cheers 🇭🇲
Yes it's a bargain. I bought it in Jan... I built the system to replace my system, i7 4790. Many people says it's better to spend more money to buy the R5 5500, well... The problem was the 5500 was kinda expensive in my country and there was no stock for 3600. So I decided to get the 4500 because I have plan to go R7 in the end of the year...
I always figured the 4500 ultimately lagged behind the (theoretical) PS5/XSX CPU specifically due to the core count (though I believe those run at 2.5 GHz while the base clock of this is 3.6 GHz) Same goes for the 6650 XT (which is the rig I use, which is alleged in the 9th gen punching range)
you shoudlve put the r5 2600 or 1600 as well in the graphs to see if it would be a good upgrade or sidegrade expecially for those who play cs go, valorant, overwatch 2 etc. another good and informative video as always
@@user-iz9up8pe4x Depends on game, because 3600 has 32mb cache, 5500 has 16mb, 4500 has 8mb. Cache what makes 5800x3D so good. So better buy is 3600 its 72 euro in my country, but i will buy 5600, just waiting price to drop closer to 100 euro atm its 130. Will be good upgrade from 2600 :)
Can't believe after a few years, 3600 is still a great CPU. 4500 was on my list when I built a PC for a friend, but found a local deal for 3600 for around 4700php new/tray type which is roughly 80USD, so I guess it all depends on the price, if you can get the same price I would still prolly recommend the 3600,
My local retailer about a month ago Microcenter had them for $75 before the motherboard discount. Great deal. The Ryzen 5500 is also available around $90 and that's another great deal. Zen 3 architecture.
Just got done building a spare PC with this for my guest bedroom. Using an A520 matx mobo, 16 GB PC3200, a teamgroup 1 TB Gen 3 M.2 SSD , and finding a new RX 5500XT 8GB, in a DIYPC mini-tower. I was able to build the whole system for under $350. It's a little monster.
I built a similar one using a Aisurix rx 580 that I found in a return store for $8. Not the best card on the market but for the kids to play games in the TV room, it works great. Plus Aisurix is using rebadged Afox PCB's and GPU's and AFox is a very reputable brand in china. They sell legit GPU's, think of them as the PNY of China. Not the best brand out there, but they are known for backing up their products. Not that Aisurix has anything to do with that, it just makes me feel a bit better longevity wise. Not that I invested much in it, a few bucks and some thermal paste.
@@naughtmeinam4603 It's a nice perk if you have guests. I have one in our guest room...and a HTPC...and a file server...my gaming PC...my wife's PC...oh Hell, we like PC's! 😁
This looks like a great solution for an entry level home, school, or homelab PC. Great price/performance. Would love to see a comparison between this build, and another super bargain build - such as an i3 10100f.
@@zodwraith5745 The 12100f is at $67 on New Egg. I didn't realize they had dropped that low in price. Find a sub $70 board, and that would be a compelling comparison.
@@wagnonforcolorado Yeah, I've seen the sales too, I was just pointing out it's widely available at $99 to pretty much anyone. Renders this chip relatively worthless when 4 ADL cores easily bests 6 Zen2 cores.
Hi Brian, thank you for this budget recommendation. This CPU is okay if it comes to price performance, but in Germany they sold the 5600 for 109€ on sale, so it is really hard to buy this CPU if you think about the benefits you get with the newer chip.
Ryzen 5600 costs almost double in the USA. That $70 can get you almost all the way to a 6700 XT over a 6600XT ($85 price difference today). I bet a 4500 with a 6700 XT beats a 5600 with a 6600 XT.
Ive been happy with it, 32gb 3200mhz ram, x470 and rx6600. Plays all my games with ultra settings at 1080p smoothly. I also see my gpu run near and at 100% usage when gaming . it is overclocked to 4.35ghz with a tower cooler. The 2400g i had I only saw 70%
I jus bougjt it adnd I am so glad to have it! Works awesome whit my 1060 3gb GPU ad 24gb of RAM Kingston 3200. Around 60 FPS on Cyberpunk 2077 with medium settings, All NFS games over 60fps on very high settings, even a new NFS titles. Tekken 7 on maximum settings, Mortal Kombat XL on maximum settings is also 60 FPS... And E-footbal 2024 on High settings works so well but I play on medium for 55-60 FPS. Pretty nice CPU on ASUS Prime A320m-k motherboard...
Low power consumption/low temperature/high efficiency builds are excellent whether you're a billionaire or a budget gamer. We need more cpus like this.
Combine this with 1050TI or a 1650 that are low power and don't need power connectors and you have the ultimate low power consumption/low temperature/high efficiency you can get that can still play games at 1080p. If you are a little more demanding and need some high settings in 1080p games then you can try the RX6600 that although it needs extra power from the power supply is probably the most efficient card that uses external power. In idle it is just 2-4W and even when fully pushed it barely goes over 100W.
The 3000 series like 3600 were likely ran on stock bios. The stock bios that first supported them held the voltages high. They changed it a few months after release but i expect allot of people never updated and kept those chips pegged high.
@@ArtisChronicles yeah iir it was caused by the bios microcode not restricting how often the sensors can be probed. Stuff like iCue that monitors CPU temps and stuff would just hammer the CPU with requests for sensor data and cause the voltage to rocket. Oddly it mostly happened when you were viewing the cpu temps because the requests when viewing in the apps was more frequent than say way a process is running in the background that monitors to change a led colour or something. It was a real issue though. To test would be hard because when you were viewing it would look high but when not be low. Would need to install old bios, old iCue version, old windows build and physically probe the motherboard i guess.
it also did this with cpu-z and hwinfo also. But yeah just viewing with those open would 100% cause it to look high. When not viewing it would drop as not being probed as much. It was frustrating.
I paid about 6-7 dollars more for one of these back in December to replace a 2200G on an A320 mobo. I had already purchased a used 3600 to replace a 1700 in my main rig (x570 mobo) a few months before. I'm sure that one would come out ahead it I properly tested them, but for everyday use and the gaming I do, they seemed almost equal in ability.
I've been telling my mates on how the r5 4500 is really amazing at $100 or under CAD (new) for flips and gaming in general.. But only one of them actually listened to me :(
Bought it at 89 dollars on offer 1-2 months ago overclocked to 4.4ghz and its almost the same to same 3600 bang for the buck truly . Satisfied with my purchase
right now, in july of 2023, this CPU is not competing with other ryzen 5s or intel hexa core CPUs. It is competing with quad core CPUs like the i3 10100f when it comes to price vs performance. Pair this up with an rx 6600 or an RTX 3060 and you can game on a nice platform.
I purchased this CPU with an Asrock A520M mobo for an open chassis test bench. I was able to get them for about $120 US in a combo deal. I also got a 2 year parts replacement for $12 in case I blow anything out with a bad part. Since this isn't my daily driver it's perfect in this price range.
@@yuri0001 It's a Dell PN: VH4P7. It's basically AMD's stock 4 heatpipe cooler from the AM2 & AM3 days. It came with my 1800x, a 95w part. The 5700g is a 65w part, so it does the job.
I got this CPU because my old Ryzen 7 1700 didn't have ReBAR support that my new Intel Arc *really* needs. So far, It's wonderful. I got it for cheap, it doesn't run too hot so even with the stock cooler I could do a slight overclock, the performance is good and I'm happy.
Thank you! Picked one of these up for £50 for the general-use desktop I'm putting together. On a B450 MB with a PCIe 3.0 GPU, this thing is ideal. With UA-cam running at 4K on one of the three monitors I'm using it with and Word open, this thing purrs along at 20 degrees all day long. I suspect 8 cores is overkill for this, but at this price it really doesn't matter.
The 5500 was what I went with because it came bundled with a basic B550 board and some random 16gig 3600mhz RAM kit for 220€ (That's about 240 dollars)
I have been scammed 3 times using Aliexpress, NONE of my products turned up and I would warn anyone using them that it is a lottery if you'll actually get what you paid for and I'm also still waiting over 6 months for my refunds.
tbh, I would opt for the Ryzen 5 5500, which is still below 100 Euro, the extra 20 is worth it in my opinion. I'm actually going to build an ITX build with the 5500 soon, paired with a 1660Super. To have a mobile enough PC to take to LAN parties at a friends place. And all for a fairly cheap budget. the 1660S I already have on my shelf, same as a PSU and M.2 SSD so it comes down to a ITX mobo+CPU a 16 gig 3200 C16 kit and a case. around 330 Euro in total.
This is probably the only foreign UA-cam i have ever seen who looks after on real low budget Gamers 😢 Love form India ❤ Best decision I have ever made by subbing you 😊
Ryzen 5 4500 + MSI RX 6700Xt combo here. the price of used GPU in Vietnam is extremely good right now. I managed to buy a MSI RX 6700Xt for about $210, 99% load and only 65C is extremely good card and CPU combo.
Wow...that CPU is a perfect entry level CPU bargain. Even a nice upgrade from a Ryzen 1000 or 2000. I can't wait until the Ryzen 9's come down a tiny bit more and I might jump on the upgrade from a 7000
I was going to buy the 4500, but I saw the 5500 on sale and pulled the trigger. Is a big step up from the 1600 which it replaced. My son is happy with the performance.
Picked up one of these and 32gb RAM on Amazon with a couple of there lick here to apply coupons and got both for $110 as a birthday present for a friend who has a Ryzen 3 2200G and RTX 2060 with 8Gb RAM. The uplift was immense (they did have an SSD already)
So I’ve had several Ryzen 5s of various generations, and both my 3600 and 5600X conked out after being dropped at light impact. I know you want to handle these with care, but I’ve dropped chips with worse falls and have had them be just fine. Ryzen 7s have never failed me, 3s are fine, the monolithic G models are fine, but the multi ccx Ryzen 5s are a gamble. If you grab one, get warranty with it
I get why it was benchmarked with a 3080, but people buying this are probably going to be running something like a 6600XT at best. And that is going to have a lot less chance to bottleneck the CPU.
Here in my country (RO) the R5 3600 is available brand new and is slightly cheaper (no included cooler but I'd argue that gives you more flexibility), and IIRC the 4500 was equivalent at best to the R5 2600. In fact, in some scenarios it was worse than the 2600, probably due to the lower cache size. The R5 3600(X) has PCIe 4 support while the R5 2600(X) was the last to officially support Windows 7 (and runs natively on B450), whereas the Intel competition, the i3 12100 does better in games, leaving the R5 4500 in this no man's land where it doesn't really have any ace up its sleeve. It and its more capable brother the R5 5500 will probably be sold for a pittance in the future as they only really represent an upgrade from lower-end first gen Ryzen chips.
I have one paired with a gtx 1060 6gb . Compared to the 3600 in my other rig that was also paired with the 1060 for a while for gaming I noticed little to no difference
I never agreed with the slapping this got on release. AMD got a cpu out, made it available - in the pandemic desert of no kit. It wasn't cheap, but it wasn't scalp pricing, and it was available. Today, its a great value chip. In the UK power is freaking expensive, so anyone snooting can take a walk. Good reasonable kit within its bounds.
I have much better FPS numbers using my tuned Erying 11980hk setup, I start hitting a thermal wall at 150w but active cooling on the VRM (80mm fan) keeps everything steady Cinebench R23 scores 15.1k and I got memory up to 3333 c14 with tuned subs, overall it was pretty good for $180 The 4500 and 3600 are extremely memory latency sensitive and would see a good jump just from tuning sub timings
For a Multimedia-PC a good choice! You can do a little bit of everything. Multimedia, Office and 1080p gaming. If you don't need more, why not ? Nice Videos, keep it up! 👍👍
Bought this at $100 (India) when 3600 was $125 last year, as a replacement for 5 year old Ryzen 3 1200. Paired with a GTX 1070 Ti, it has been awesome for 1440p 60 fps gaming with a little older titles so far - like Far Cry 5, Assassin's Creed Origins, Ghost Recon Wildlands, Jedi Fallen Order, and one new title Ghostwire: Tokyo which is just a year old. High resolution means focus moves to the GPU that already has 8 GB VRAM (enough for non-RT up to 1440p), and cache-strapped (see what I did there?) CPU need not bother too much unless the game is CPU heavy like say Cyberpunk. And most of these game engines are well optimized for 6 cores/ 12 threads. It depends on the game and optimizations no doubt. It is simply not the processor to brute force unoptimized titles like a 12700KF or 5800x3D. But it turned out to be a surprisingly good purchase so far for the games that I have in backlog to clear.
I got the 4500 a few days back. It's still hella cheap. There was also a Gigabyte A520 going for peanuts on Amazon, and I would've bought it, but I just missed the last one, so I ended up with an MSI B550 Torpedo instead, which is a quality board that leaves me room to grow. I'm just so relieved to finally be rid of my old potato. It's not so much that it was slow, I think the mosfets or caps were failing, because it sometimes took 20 or 30 attempts to get it to actually post (yeah the ram was fine).
My experience is that this and the 5500 overheat because motherboards default to PBO on when you enable XMP. Go into settings and disable PBO and set a temperature limit. The CPU will clock a bit lower and will receive much lower voltage. It pumps a lot of voltage for those extra 25 or 50 MHz. Ryzen Master autotuner I have not tested thoroughly but is an option. I would not recommend it if you can go for the 5500, as zen 2 has a nasty vulnerability that means OS performance will be crushed. Apps by themselves will be fine (unless storage dependent) but win will be much slower. Bulldozer through Zen 2 cores are affected.
Ryzen 5 4500 brand new price today at Mindfactory/Germany was 66,52€ plus shipping. So you pay around 70€ for it. Ryzen 5 5500 will cost 94€ plus shipping. So its around 100€. Thats a big difference when you build a budget pc.
I bought an R7 3700X used. After a short time the performance dropped off noticeably. After some troubleshooting, I discovered that the "B" memory channel had died. So I no longer had dual memory channels. I believe the person I bought it from had over-clocked the balls off that thing and damaged it, and then sold it off. I'm noticing that that Zen2 chips especially seem to have this problem. Buyer beware. note: when overclocking Ryzen, the bios will warn you that it could damage the cpu . . . . people ignore this. Now, we pay the price on the used market. There's probably a very good reason why MOST Intel cpu's are locked. Think about it . . . . locked Intel chips very very rarely burn-out.
I wish Bry would discuss how neoliberal policies have always relied on creating a large foundation of poverty for the many so that the few can thrive. This is also why affordable computer building and maintenance need to be the cornerstone of his work. If you care about people, really care about people, then you MUST care about all people.
At that price, you buy a 3600 and a decent tower cooler to overclock the snot out of it. In fact, for that prize, you can even buy a used 3700X. It's honestly not worth it.
I think, 8mb of l3 cache somehow to little, on used market r5 3600 attracts me more, some people upgrading am4 platforms to am5 so could get ultra cheap both of these 2 cpus... Great content Tech Yes!
The stock cooler that came with my R5-3600 was completely inadequate when stressing the CPU. Temps would go to mid 80's quickly and while AMD says it's OK...that's awful hot for something we expect to live a long life. Put a Scythe Mugen 5 rev.b with dual fans on it and the highest it'll get is about 63C @ 1.350V which I think will be just fine. And it's quiet unlike the AMD fan which was screaming all the time as it valiantly tried to control the temperature.
feeling better about my X58 X5675 @4.3 MHz @ 1.35v auto CPU voltage @ 60-70c is pushing my GTX 1080 to 90+% usage on high settings in Fortnite @ 120-180 FPS and my RTX 2080 averaging even higher with highs in the 140- 200 FPS range combination of High/Ultra settings RT off, both GPU's overclocked and undervolted @ 60c range both GPU's are Asus Strix triple fan cards
I got 5600 b450 amd ddr4000 cl 18 for $250 total. I also for a g7 4k 144hz 28inch open box with 2 year protection plan for $270. Microcenter is the shit! Ppl. Make the drive and stay for a while.
No... crap is crap no matter how little they want to charge for it. If you can swing a 3080, saying you need to save money by getting an $80 CPU vs stepping up to a 5800x for $150 and never swapping the processor again until you change platform is kinda insane.
Its great you made this vid, I grabbed a R5 3500 when they came out just for a chip that could be used for trouble shooting various boards, and was left feeling a wee bit bent over. As it performed almost half of a R5 3600 at the time. Seeing the R5 4500 the first thought in my mind was, oh no not falling for that. But now I am willing to give it a try.
@@redragongaming if your doing that with an AIO, it could put you into the use your imagination category. Yes temps go up and cooling better perhaps. But that heat still goes directly to your room. If with a standard air cooling element things could get vary unstable. Its all about the silicone, and what you need it to do for you.
@@Lana_Warwick perhaps all of my 3600 chips were golden, the 3500 single cores even overclocked were more on par with the 2600x, or 1600AF performance.
what are your thoughts on ASUS pulling another NEWEGG warranty issues ?? by not backing up their product and refusing Possible RMAS.. i believe all of Us as gamers need to stand together and star rejecting ASUS till they fix they Possible future RMAS problems.. I for One , as an asus fan.. will only consider MSI, EVGA specially , and Asrock . never had issues with then except Gigabyte no being that good with their Warranties ... something they gotta fix like Asus from now on... Thank you all.... for sticking together as always ..
Thanks to this video I just ordered the Ryzen 5 4500, I don't think you can beat it for the new low price and it will be a good leap in performance going from a first gen Ryzen 5 1400 to the 4500.
I also have the ryzen 5 1400 and I just bought the ryzen 5 4500 to use it with an rx 6600, do you think it can play in high quality in 1080p at 60 fps?
My 5600x's PCIE controller failed making me buy a new motherboard, spend hours testing my GPU and PSU trying to work out why I couldn't use the 1st PCIE slot. The new Mobo had the same issue and another GPU also wouldn't work in the 1st slot so I have got this CPU to see me through 20 days until I buy an R7 7700x. The broken 5600x functions normally with 0 indication of an issue which is why i ended up buying a new mobo. I use an RTX 3060 which actually is incapable of using 100 percent of a PCIE3 slot so I am hoping the 4500 gives me OK gaming performance for the rest of the month, I don't mind lowering some more CPU intensive settings in games.
i picked up a ryzen 5 5500 for 80$ on us amazon a few weeks back it has since went back up to 96 last i checked but watch the prices constantly you can catch a deal. when i bought my 3600 i also bought a artic esports33 cooler for it and used nt-h1 paste and undervolted it right out of the box , i like being overkill on cooling the 5500 has a corsair a500 cooler with a lapped plate and Nt-H1 paste
Ryzen 5 4500 only supports PCIe 3. Your better of getting the 5 3600 that supports PCIe 4 & only cost $15 to $20 more dollars. The 5 3600 also allows you to get the higher speeds on 500 Series Motherboards with PCIe 4. You can run the Ryzen 5 4500 on 520, 550, X570 AM4 board but it will be running PCIe 3.0 speeds which is %50 the bandwidth of PCIe 4. Also AMD's Radeon RX 5000, RX 6000, and RX 7000 series GPUs all support PCIe 4. (NOTE:I think there is a few 400 Series AM4 Motherboards that run PCIe 4 but most are running PCIe 3)
Going with AIO my 3600 tops out at 65 degrees. Originally I went AIO because I just don't like the massive air coolers. Seeing these type of heat numbers on air coolers I really don't think I will ever go back. Haven't taken the plunge into custom... maybe one day.
That is a weird looking Xeon!
It's a zeon (zen + xeon) teehee
@@AbbasDalal1000 I love it!
😅
lol.
Lol you always say this haha
If you have a Micro Center nearby (in the US), you can get a new Ryzen 3600 for $75 plus $20 off a mobo, which makes a combo with an a520 $120 total. Really a shame that Micro Center doesn't have more locations.
I feel the same way.
I wish aus had a large retailer like that which could give us wholesale prices. All we need is a big enough US based company like that to bulk ship, that the aus gov doesn't tax into the goddamn ground because of being 'foreign'. We're so close diplomatically that It would benefit both countries greatly. It's sad.
It is super nice might look at see if the have anything for 5800x3d but probably get it on hardware swap
@@taxa1569 Aussies just get straight up fucked on hardware and especially software. I swear your government simply hates those evil vidya games.
Yup! Mine has these too!
i upgraded from amd fx 8320 to this ryzen 5 4500 for around $80. runs great. manual OCed to 4.3 at 1.2v stable all cores cinebench without breaking a sweat in 32+ degree Celsius ambient summer heat.
nice
I just got a used 3900x for $135 with the RGB cooler, I love Zen 2 parts for some reason. I've got a 13600K and 4070 Ti, and I find myself getting more enjoyment out of older budget stuff for some reason lol. Love the Vid man
Its more rewarding to pry performance out of cheap parts than expensive one. My GOAT tweaking cpu was a very late diffused [early 2016] FX8300 I got free out of a dead HP with a bad psu. The cherry to end all cherries; all core overclock 4.85GHZ at 1.25v [!], NT/HT/DDR3 2600mhz @1.3v soc.... faster than an FX-9590 thanks to having a far better memory controller while pulling 35% less power at the wall. Doubled it's fps Warhammer II skaven bench with maxed units. Don't daily that machine, it was only ever a toy... But that there is an AMD FX being held back by a GTX 1070ti and would kerbstomp an overclocked i5 2500k in any demanding game made in the last 6 years is hilarious.
4070 ti isn't older budget stuff tho 😅
I'm on a 3900x in my 'workstation'. Nothing wrong with it
@@rabbychan The post was about the 3900x that I got for a budget price.. You'd have to be an absolute idiot to, read that comment and comprehend that I said a 13600K and 4070 Ti are budget parts..
@@anasevi9456 That's awesome man, I've also got a 12400f that I BCLK oc'd to 5.3ghz and 3600 CL13 ram. Its 41ns in Intel MLC (bc Aida64 doesn't work when you use BCLK) and its faster than a stock 12600k. Its paired with a 6800 XT. I've got a problem with buying too many pc parts lol
Thanks for focussing on power consumption as well in your videos. It might interest people more than the current state of the industry thinks...talking about Intel and Nvidia mostly ;). Great video and comparison - as always. Cheers 🇭🇲
Yes it's a bargain. I bought it in Jan... I built the system to replace my system, i7 4790.
Many people says it's better to spend more money to buy the R5 5500, well... The problem was the 5500 was kinda expensive in my country and there was no stock for 3600. So I decided to get the 4500 because I have plan to go R7 in the end of the year...
yeah rather spend more on mobo to prolong your pc life
FYI the 4500 is the same 8 core CPU cluster you will find in the Xbox Series S/X and PS5. All are based on the Renior monolithic core.
I always figured the 4500 ultimately lagged behind the (theoretical) PS5/XSX CPU specifically due to the core count (though I believe those run at 2.5 GHz while the base clock of this is 3.6 GHz)
Same goes for the 6650 XT (which is the rig I use, which is alleged in the 9th gen punching range)
mine is overclocked to 4.1GHZ straight out the box
you shoudlve put the r5 2600 or 1600 as well in the graphs to see if it would be a good upgrade or sidegrade expecially for those who play cs go, valorant, overwatch 2 etc. another good and informative video as always
He will non do it , cos 4500 isn't much faster than Ryzen 2600 and 3600 is much better in games. Even i3-10100 is better in games
@@user-iz9up8pe4x
IIRC 3600 is about as fast as 5500. So 4500 is roughly 20%-30% below them?
@@fajaradi1223 He included the R5 5500 in this video & the 5500 blows away the 3600.
@@fajaradi1223 5500 is faster than 3600
@@user-iz9up8pe4x Depends on game, because 3600 has 32mb cache, 5500 has 16mb, 4500 has 8mb. Cache what makes 5800x3D so good. So better buy is 3600 its 72 euro in my country, but i will buy 5600, just waiting price to drop closer to 100 euro atm its 130. Will be good upgrade from 2600 :)
I got this cpu for $70 and paired it with a 6650xt.
In the future, I would get the 5600x on sale for $135
Can't believe after a few years, 3600 is still a great CPU. 4500 was on my list when I built a PC for a friend, but found a local deal for 3600 for around 4700php new/tray type which is roughly 80USD, so I guess it all depends on the price, if you can get the same price I would still prolly recommend the 3600,
Is the 3600 better than 4500? and why?
@@lordmemesxd6030 The difference is the pricing. pick 4500 if it is cheaper and vice versa.
4500 costs around 60usd and 5500 is around 72usd all brandnew.. 3600 is around 60usd used so it depends really on budget and availability
My local retailer about a month ago Microcenter had them for $75 before the motherboard discount. Great deal. The Ryzen 5500 is also available around $90 and that's another great deal. Zen 3 architecture.
OMG TY. Been wondering about this chip and comparisons too.
Just got done building a spare PC with this for my guest bedroom. Using an A520 matx mobo, 16 GB PC3200, a teamgroup 1 TB Gen 3 M.2 SSD , and finding a new RX 5500XT 8GB, in a DIYPC mini-tower. I was able to build the whole system for under $350. It's a little monster.
I built a similar one using a Aisurix rx 580 that I found in a return store for $8. Not the best card on the market but for the kids to play games in the TV room, it works great. Plus Aisurix is using rebadged Afox PCB's and GPU's and AFox is a very reputable brand in china. They sell legit GPU's, think of them as the PNY of China. Not the best brand out there, but they are known for backing up their products. Not that Aisurix has anything to do with that, it just makes me feel a bit better longevity wise. Not that I invested much in it, a few bucks and some thermal paste.
Curious about the purpose of having a computer for a spare bedroom.
@@robertt9342 🧻🧴
Why though?
@@naughtmeinam4603 It's a nice perk if you have guests. I have one in our guest room...and a HTPC...and a file server...my gaming PC...my wife's PC...oh Hell, we like PC's! 😁
This looks like a great solution for an entry level home, school, or homelab PC. Great price/performance. Would love to see a comparison between this build, and another super bargain build - such as an i3 10100f.
With the 12100f being only $99 there's no reason to even consider the 10100f.
@@zodwraith5745 The 12100f is at $67 on New Egg. I didn't realize they had dropped that low in price. Find a sub $70 board, and that would be a compelling comparison.
@@wagnonforcolorado Yeah, I've seen the sales too, I was just pointing out it's widely available at $99 to pretty much anyone. Renders this chip relatively worthless when 4 ADL cores easily bests 6 Zen2 cores.
Hi Brian, thank you for this budget recommendation. This CPU is okay if it comes to price performance, but in Germany they sold the 5600 for 109€ on sale, so it is really hard to buy this CPU if you think about the benefits you get with the newer chip.
Yeah definitely there are lots of good options, just depends on the price.
Ryzen 5600 costs almost double in the USA. That $70 can get you almost all the way to a 6700 XT over a 6600XT ($85 price difference today). I bet a 4500 with a 6700 XT beats a 5600 with a 6600 XT.
@@the_wiki9408 depends on the game if graphics ortiented or CPU as most competitive games are CPU, and story games more GPU etc...
@@techyescity Tell me the reason for which you did not compare the 5500 with the i3 12100f
@@techyescity What about the 4600G?
Ive been happy with it, 32gb 3200mhz ram, x470 and rx6600. Plays all my games with ultra settings at 1080p smoothly. I also see my gpu run near and at 100% usage when gaming . it is overclocked to 4.35ghz with a tower cooler. The 2400g i had I only saw 70%
I jus bougjt it adnd I am so glad to have it! Works awesome whit my 1060 3gb GPU ad 24gb of RAM Kingston 3200.
Around 60 FPS on Cyberpunk 2077 with medium settings, All NFS games over 60fps on very high settings, even a new NFS titles. Tekken 7 on maximum settings, Mortal Kombat XL on maximum settings is also 60 FPS... And E-footbal 2024 on High settings works so well but I play on medium for 55-60 FPS. Pretty nice CPU on ASUS Prime A320m-k motherboard...
Low power consumption/low temperature/high efficiency builds are excellent whether you're a billionaire or a budget gamer. We need more cpus like this.
Combine this with 1050TI or a 1650 that are low power and don't need power connectors and you have the ultimate low power consumption/low temperature/high efficiency you can get that can still play games at 1080p.
If you are a little more demanding and need some high settings in 1080p games then you can try the RX6600 that although it needs extra power from the power supply is probably the most efficient card that uses external power.
In idle it is just 2-4W and even when fully pushed it barely goes over 100W.
Great Video as usual. Thanks for keeping PC gaming alive for the mortals not looking at competing with a super computer.
The 3000 series like 3600 were likely ran on stock bios. The stock bios that first supported them held the voltages high. They changed it a few months after release but i expect allot of people never updated and kept those chips pegged high.
That explains so much. I remember those chips running a lot hotter than I'd like, turns out the voltage was high early on.
@@ArtisChronicles yeah iir it was caused by the bios microcode not restricting how often the sensors can be probed. Stuff like iCue that monitors CPU temps and stuff would just hammer the CPU with requests for sensor data and cause the voltage to rocket. Oddly it mostly happened when you were viewing the cpu temps because the requests when viewing in the apps was more frequent than say way a process is running in the background that monitors to change a led colour or something. It was a real issue though. To test would be hard because when you were viewing it would look high but when not be low. Would need to install old bios, old iCue version, old windows build and physically probe the motherboard i guess.
it also did this with cpu-z and hwinfo also. But yeah just viewing with those open would 100% cause it to look high. When not viewing it would drop as not being probed as much. It was frustrating.
Same story with 7000 series, LOL.
@@mikem9536 really? i knew they had the overvolt issue but not the same probe issue. It is hard to test for since looking at sensors causes it lol.
You videos have inspired me to start flipping pc’s, thank you for all that you do.
I paid about 6-7 dollars more for one of these back in December to replace a 2200G on an A320 mobo. I had already purchased a used 3600 to replace a 1700 in my main rig (x570 mobo) a few months before. I'm sure that one would come out ahead it I properly tested them, but for everyday use and the gaming I do, they seemed almost equal in ability.
I've been telling my mates on how the r5 4500 is really amazing at $100 or under CAD (new) for flips and gaming in general.. But only one of them actually listened to me :(
actually its bad because 5600 is around 100$ dollar now, 4500 even not better than 3600
Bought it at 89 dollars on offer 1-2 months ago overclocked to 4.4ghz and its almost the same to same 3600 bang for the buck truly . Satisfied with my purchase
Thanks for highlighting something a bit off the beaten path. Appreciate all you do!
right now, in july of 2023, this CPU is not competing with other ryzen 5s or intel hexa core CPUs. It is competing with quad core CPUs like the i3 10100f when it comes to price vs performance. Pair this up with an rx 6600 or an RTX 3060 and you can game on a nice platform.
I purchased this CPU with an Asrock A520M mobo for an open chassis test bench. I was able to get them for about $120 US in a combo deal. I also got a 2 year parts replacement for $12 in case I blow anything out with a bad part. Since this isn't my daily driver it's perfect in this price range.
I'm upgrading my ryzen 3 1200 to this ryzen 5 4500 ! I play competitive dota 2 mostly so it will serve me well I hope 😁
I got a used 5700g for $130 USD, and have it running on a X370 with a RX 6950 XT. I love it. It never really goes above 62° C on a stock cooler.
Can you tell me what is the name of the cooler please?
@@yuri0001 Look it up.
@@yuri0001 It's a Dell PN: VH4P7. It's basically AMD's stock 4 heatpipe cooler from the AM2 & AM3 days. It came with my 1800x, a 95w part. The 5700g is a 65w part, so it does the job.
@@Rabbit_AF Thank you for the info!
A320m and 4500 is around $99 now
Paired that combo with 2x16gb 3200 for $80+ and addin 5700xt for $120 ez
Damn good 1080p pc for half a decade imho
Bought a 5500 for $89 on Amazon. Decent replacement for a 1600AF on my B450 board
I got this CPU because my old Ryzen 7 1700 didn't have ReBAR support that my new Intel Arc *really* needs.
So far, It's wonderful. I got it for cheap, it doesn't run too hot so even with the stock cooler I could do a slight overclock, the performance is good and I'm happy.
In Europe NEW Ryzens 3600 are currently sold for the equivalent of $80 (100-100000031AWOF -> BOX version , but without cooler)
Here in the Philippines it is now priced equivalent to $55.00 usd!! I bought one for my son immediately...
Thank you! Picked one of these up for £50 for the general-use desktop I'm putting together. On a B450 MB with a PCIe 3.0 GPU, this thing is ideal. With UA-cam running at 4K on one of the three monitors I'm using it with and Word open, this thing purrs along at 20 degrees all day long. I suspect 8 cores is overkill for this, but at this price it really doesn't matter.
Was looking forward this video thanks a lot
It's might also worth considering the 5500 at $99 right now, if your motherboard supports it.
The 5500 was what I went with because it came bundled with a basic B550 board and some random 16gig 3600mhz RAM kit for 220€ (That's about 240 dollars)
Nice hoodie you got there mate.
I have been scammed 3 times using Aliexpress, NONE of my products turned up and I would warn anyone using them that it is a lottery if you'll actually get what you paid for and I'm also still waiting over 6 months for my refunds.
What are your thoughts on the Lenovo Thinkstation P520? With the Xeon w2135, 900w psu and 16gb ram going for under $180 on ebay
I am considering that as well.
tbh, I would opt for the Ryzen 5 5500, which is still below 100 Euro, the extra 20 is worth it in my opinion. I'm actually going to build an ITX build with the 5500 soon, paired with a 1660Super. To have a mobile enough PC to take to LAN parties at a friends place. And all for a fairly cheap budget. the 1660S I already have on my shelf, same as a PSU and M.2 SSD so it comes down to a ITX mobo+CPU a 16 gig 3200 C16 kit and a case. around 330 Euro in total.
At $79 AUSTRALIAN dollars it would be worth considering
This is probably the only foreign UA-cam i have ever seen who looks after on real low budget Gamers 😢
Love form India ❤
Best decision I have ever made by subbing you 😊
most of our content creators are shop owners selling their old overpriced stock
@@tanmaypanadi1414 sadly true af 🥲
Its great to see videos finding solutions for people rather than moaning about the price of the latest stuff. Thats what I like about TYC.
I have a r5 1600x + rx580 8gb.. planning to do a quick upgrade. Is 4500 and rx580 good?😢
Cool, just that there are plenty of 2nd hand R5 3600X for the same money!
I built a 3600 system 4 years ago. Running it with a 2600x cooler... hopefully that is enough extra cooling to not kill it soon.
Ryzen 5 4500 + MSI RX 6700Xt combo here. the price of used GPU in Vietnam is extremely good right now.
I managed to buy a MSI RX 6700Xt for about $210, 99% load and only 65C is extremely good card and CPU combo.
Most amazing budget CPU! Very cool pick-up!
Wow...that CPU is a perfect entry level CPU bargain. Even a nice upgrade from a Ryzen 1000 or 2000. I can't wait until the Ryzen 9's come down a tiny bit more and I might jump on the upgrade from a 7000
I bought for 4500 for $77 US on Amazon and a Gigabyte A520M S2H for 75 bucks...Glad to here it is good for the money in a budget build! Good INFO
Did it need BIos update?
I was going to buy the 4500, but I saw the 5500 on sale and pulled the trigger.
Is a big step up from the 1600 which it replaced. My son is happy with the performance.
Yea, budget CPUs are back!
Picked up one of these and 32gb RAM on Amazon with a couple of there lick here to apply coupons and got both for $110 as a birthday present for a friend who has a Ryzen 3 2200G and RTX 2060 with 8Gb RAM. The uplift was immense (they did have an SSD already)
So I’ve had several Ryzen 5s of various generations, and both my 3600 and 5600X conked out after being dropped at light impact. I know you want to handle these with care, but I’ve dropped chips with worse falls and have had them be just fine. Ryzen 7s have never failed me, 3s are fine, the monolithic G models are fine, but the multi ccx Ryzen 5s are a gamble. If you grab one, get warranty with it
i just got my 5500 from ali express , plus some cheap 3200 ram , 1070ti for 100$ , upgraded from a 2200g and a 1060 3g , feels amazing
I get why it was benchmarked with a 3080, but people buying this are probably going to be running something like a 6600XT at best. And that is going to have a lot less chance to bottleneck the CPU.
Here in my country (RO) the R5 3600 is available brand new and is slightly cheaper (no included cooler but I'd argue that gives you more flexibility), and IIRC the 4500 was equivalent at best to the R5 2600. In fact, in some scenarios it was worse than the 2600, probably due to the lower cache size. The R5 3600(X) has PCIe 4 support while the R5 2600(X) was the last to officially support Windows 7 (and runs natively on B450), whereas the Intel competition, the i3 12100 does better in games, leaving the R5 4500 in this no man's land where it doesn't really have any ace up its sleeve. It and its more capable brother the R5 5500 will probably be sold for a pittance in the future as they only really represent an upgrade from lower-end first gen Ryzen chips.
I have one paired with a gtx 1060 6gb . Compared to the 3600 in my other rig that was also paired with the 1060 for a while for gaming I noticed little to no difference
I never agreed with the slapping this got on release. AMD got a cpu out, made it available - in the pandemic desert of no kit. It wasn't cheap, but it wasn't scalp pricing, and it was available. Today, its a great value chip. In the UK power is freaking expensive, so anyone snooting can take a walk. Good reasonable kit within its bounds.
I have much better FPS numbers using my tuned Erying 11980hk setup, I start hitting a thermal wall at 150w but active cooling on the VRM (80mm fan) keeps everything steady
Cinebench R23 scores 15.1k and I got memory up to 3333 c14 with tuned subs, overall it was pretty good for $180
The 4500 and 3600 are extremely memory latency sensitive and would see a good jump just from tuning sub timings
I just purchased a custom built rig with this CPU. The trade off is I get a RTX 4070Ti.
Did I make the correct choice?
For a Multimedia-PC a good choice! You can do a little bit of everything. Multimedia, Office and 1080p gaming. If you don't need more, why not ? Nice Videos, keep it up! 👍👍
Bought this at $100 (India) when 3600 was $125 last year, as a replacement for 5 year old Ryzen 3 1200. Paired with a GTX 1070 Ti, it has been awesome for 1440p 60 fps gaming with a little older titles so far - like Far Cry 5, Assassin's Creed Origins, Ghost Recon Wildlands, Jedi Fallen Order, and one new title Ghostwire: Tokyo which is just a year old. High resolution means focus moves to the GPU that already has 8 GB VRAM (enough for non-RT up to 1440p), and cache-strapped (see what I did there?) CPU need not bother too much unless the game is CPU heavy like say Cyberpunk. And most of these game engines are well optimized for 6 cores/ 12 threads.
It depends on the game and optimizations no doubt. It is simply not the processor to brute force unoptimized titles like a 12700KF or 5800x3D. But it turned out to be a surprisingly good purchase so far for the games that I have in backlog to clear.
I got the 4500 a few days back. It's still hella cheap. There was also a Gigabyte A520 going for peanuts on Amazon, and I would've bought it, but I just missed the last one, so I ended up with an MSI B550 Torpedo instead, which is a quality board that leaves me room to grow.
I'm just so relieved to finally be rid of my old potato. It's not so much that it was slow, I think the mosfets or caps were failing, because it sometimes took 20 or 30 attempts to get it to actually post (yeah the ram was fine).
I hope soon is a Xeon CPU video again, you know we love those!
My experience is that this and the 5500 overheat because motherboards default to PBO on when you enable XMP. Go into settings and disable PBO and set a temperature limit. The CPU will clock a bit lower and will receive much lower voltage. It pumps a lot of voltage for those extra 25 or 50 MHz.
Ryzen Master autotuner I have not tested thoroughly but is an option.
I would not recommend it if you can go for the 5500, as zen 2 has a nasty vulnerability that means OS performance will be crushed. Apps by themselves will be fine (unless storage dependent) but win will be much slower. Bulldozer through Zen 2 cores are affected.
Ryzen 5 4500 brand new price today at Mindfactory/Germany was 66,52€ plus shipping. So you pay around 70€ for it. Ryzen 5 5500 will cost 94€ plus shipping. So its around 100€.
Thats a big difference when you build a budget pc.
I bought an R7 3700X used. After a short time the performance dropped off noticeably. After some troubleshooting, I discovered that the "B" memory channel had died. So I no longer had dual memory channels. I believe the person I bought it from had over-clocked the balls off that thing and damaged it, and then sold it off. I'm noticing that that Zen2 chips especially seem to have this problem. Buyer beware. note: when overclocking Ryzen, the bios will warn you that it could damage the cpu . . . . people ignore this. Now, we pay the price on the used market. There's probably a very good reason why MOST Intel cpu's are locked. Think about it . . . . locked Intel chips very very rarely burn-out.
last aliexpress sales sold 5600 for less than 90$ with free shipping in asian countries. not worth the price. look for used 5600.
Did not expect to see Ghost Recon in any new benchmarks in 2023 lol. I'm happy since I still play modern Ghost Recon games.
Was it Breakpoint?
I wish Bry would discuss how neoliberal policies have always relied on creating a large foundation of poverty for the many so that the few can thrive. This is also why affordable computer building and maintenance need to be the cornerstone of his work. If you care about people, really care about people, then you MUST care about all people.
At that price, you buy a 3600 and a decent tower cooler to overclock the snot out of it. In fact, for that prize, you can even buy a used 3700X. It's honestly not worth it.
I have R5 3600 atm and i can confirm this it's best deal atm for 1080p and even 1440p.
great work keep it up
Got a new R5 5500 for just 70 bucks 3800php. Great value and worth it.
R5 5500 + RX 6700 10GB is the ultimate value combo, and roughly equal to PS5 power. Only $360 USD combined.
I think, 8mb of l3 cache somehow to little, on used market r5 3600 attracts me more, some people upgrading am4 platforms to am5 so could get ultra cheap both of these 2 cpus... Great content Tech Yes!
Just bought two 3700x for 90$ USD only had slightly bent pins. Was a steal!
The stock cooler that came with my R5-3600 was completely inadequate when stressing the CPU. Temps would go to mid 80's quickly and while AMD says it's OK...that's awful hot for something we expect to live a long life. Put a Scythe Mugen 5 rev.b with dual fans on it and the highest it'll get is about 63C @ 1.350V which I think will be just fine. And it's quiet unlike the AMD fan which was screaming all the time as it valiantly tried to control the temperature.
feeling better about my X58 X5675 @4.3 MHz @ 1.35v auto CPU voltage @ 60-70c is pushing my GTX 1080 to 90+% usage on high settings in Fortnite @ 120-180 FPS and my RTX 2080 averaging even higher with highs in the 140- 200 FPS range combination of High/Ultra settings RT off, both GPU's overclocked and undervolted @ 60c range both GPU's are Asus Strix triple fan cards
£65 now in the UK on Amazon it is a great starting option at the moment
I got 5600 b450 amd ddr4000 cl 18 for $250 total.
I also for a g7 4k 144hz 28inch open box with 2 year protection plan for $270.
Microcenter is the shit! Ppl. Make the drive and stay for a while.
Ah.. I remember the days of users saying that the 3600 running on upwards of 85 degrees on load is fine.
Hey Yes man! I'm still rocking my X58/x5680 will this be a significant upgrade?
I recently got that erying i7 motherboard and a 5700XT, I love used cheap stuff man this is such a good computer for high end 1080p mid 1440p
No... crap is crap no matter how little they want to charge for it. If you can swing a 3080, saying you need to save money by getting an $80 CPU vs stepping up to a 5800x for $150 and never swapping the processor again until you change platform is kinda insane.
Its great you made this vid, I grabbed a R5 3500 when they came out just for a chip that could be used for trouble shooting various boards, and was left feeling a wee bit bent over. As it performed almost half of a R5 3600 at the time. Seeing the R5 4500 the first thought in my mind was, oh no not falling for that. But now I am willing to give it a try.
You could try to OC the 4500 to 4400 MHZ with 1.368 volts, in my case it works flawlessly.
@@redragongaming if your doing that with an AIO, it could put you into the use your imagination category. Yes temps go up and cooling better perhaps. But that heat still goes directly to your room. If with a standard air cooling element things could get vary unstable. Its all about the silicone, and what you need it to do for you.
Bit late to the party - is it 3500x? Nexus reviewed it a few years back vs 3600. Similar results oc'd to 1.38v 4.2GHz (6 vs 12 threads).
@@Lana_Warwick perhaps all of my 3600 chips were golden, the 3500 single cores even overclocked were more on par with the 2600x, or 1600AF performance.
what are your thoughts on ASUS pulling another NEWEGG warranty issues ?? by not backing up their product and refusing Possible RMAS.. i believe all of Us as gamers need to stand together and star rejecting ASUS till they fix they Possible future RMAS problems.. I for One , as an asus fan.. will only consider MSI, EVGA specially , and Asrock . never had issues with then except Gigabyte no being that good with their Warranties ... something they gotta fix like Asus from now on... Thank you all.... for sticking together as always ..
No, no it is not, not when the 5500 is often only $10 to - $15 USD more.
No, just no. Pay the extra money to get a 5500.
Here in the Czech Republic, the prices for the new 4500 and 3600 are almost the same (difference max. 4 euros) and are around 70-80.
Thanks to this video I just ordered the Ryzen 5 4500, I don't think you can beat it for the new low price and it will be a good leap in performance going from a first gen Ryzen 5 1400 to the 4500.
I also have the ryzen 5 1400 and I just bought the ryzen 5 4500 to use it with an rx 6600, do you think it can play in high quality in 1080p at 60 fps?
yes most games it should, rx 6600 is a good little card
I found a 5600x + Asus Rog Strix b550-a mobo for $319 on Amazon. I gotta decide what route to go for my son's build.
A vg cpu for a budget beast gaming pc💪🥰👍🤩
Been a minute since I've watched the Australian Reed Richards. Maybe someone will get it, maybe not. Love that tech yes content!
in eastern europe the r5 3600 is sold around 65-70usd new, tray verision.
basically the same cpu but with gen4.0 and 32mb of L3
Where is that? It is $85 in Bulgaria.
My 5600x's PCIE controller failed making me buy a new motherboard, spend hours testing my GPU and PSU trying to work out why I couldn't use the 1st PCIE slot. The new Mobo had the same issue and another GPU also wouldn't work in the 1st slot so I have got this CPU to see me through 20 days until I buy an R7 7700x. The broken 5600x functions normally with 0 indication of an issue which is why i ended up buying a new mobo. I use an RTX 3060 which actually is incapable of using 100 percent of a PCIE3 slot so I am hoping the 4500 gives me OK gaming performance for the rest of the month, I don't mind lowering some more CPU intensive settings in games.
i picked up a ryzen 5 5500 for 80$ on us amazon a few weeks back it has since went back up to 96 last i checked but watch the prices constantly you can catch a deal. when i bought my 3600 i also bought a artic esports33 cooler for it and used nt-h1 paste and undervolted it right out of the box , i like being overkill on cooling the 5500 has a corsair a500 cooler with a lapped plate and Nt-H1 paste
Ryzen 5 4500 only supports PCIe 3. Your better of getting the 5 3600 that supports PCIe 4 & only cost $15 to $20 more dollars. The 5 3600 also allows you to get the higher speeds on 500 Series Motherboards with PCIe 4. You can run the Ryzen 5 4500 on 520, 550, X570 AM4 board but it will be running PCIe 3.0 speeds which is %50 the bandwidth of PCIe 4. Also AMD's Radeon RX 5000, RX 6000, and RX 7000 series GPUs all support PCIe 4. (NOTE:I think there is a few 400 Series AM4 Motherboards that run PCIe 4 but most are running PCIe 3)
I have a Ryzen 4500 planning on upgrading to the Ryzen 9 5900x.
Going with AIO my 3600 tops out at 65 degrees. Originally I went AIO because I just don't like the massive air coolers. Seeing these type of heat numbers on air coolers I really don't think I will ever go back. Haven't taken the plunge into custom... maybe one day.