Oh God...I cried once Yukari started to take that key from Aigis and yelled at her, and saying that she wanted to see him again. I just can't look at the screen, it made me cried even more :(
I love how they make Yukari in the game (Normal and Answer). To the begin she is a little (or big) bitch, then she become more gentle in confront of Minato. Eventually (in my case) she falls in love with him. I don't understand why people hate her: She desperates for the lost of Minato (friend or partner), off course she doesn't think rationally in the key decision: she has the chance to "revive" Minato. I understand that people hate that Atlus almost make Yukari - Minato
That's how I feel as well! (: I think the whole scene would have been much more bland if Yukari would have just been like "Okkayy here is my key ; Friendship power." Lol. Yukari's reactions are my favorite. I mean they all miss him but you could really tell that she cared for him. It was heart-warming in my opinion.
I agree with that, but it the end it was a "normal reaction". When a man/woman has the chance to realise his/her dream, he/she become close-mind and he/she doesn't care about consequences. The character designs of Atlus manage to create "realistic" character, with their exagerations off course. And beside, think about the begin of P3, where Yukari is holding her "evoker" in a suicidal pose. I understand that she felt lonely, and when Minato dies that feel rises again. Atlus, make Persona 5. THX
It's amazing,so many people hating on Yukari... Imagine you had a hard life, and someone came along that helped you, healed your wounds, led you down a path of betterment, that ultimately resolved feelings you had over your fathers death. Someone who made you laugh, made you smile, and was more than just a best friend, someone you may as well lost your virginity to... Now imagine they died, and you are given a chance to see them again. So why all the hate?
He made the decision by his self, without asking any of them how they feel. She is the canon love interest, so it would make sense she would be hurt that her boyfriend wouldn't even consider her feelings before he did something. then the girl who's always there for her boyfriend, gets to hear his last words AND gets his power. Basically she feels like her lover killed hisself without caring how she would feel, and some other girl got everything in the will.
That is true. When someone you love dies. She lost her father and from what it looks like she was a daddies girl. She lost the one person who helped her heal her wounds and reconsile with her mother now for reasons the don't know he died for them. Death makes anyone lose sence of right and wrong especially when you knowtheres a way to bring them back
Same here. I cried when Yukari revealed how much she truly loved Minato, but just because he's gone doesn't mean you can just undo everything. She really isn't thinking straight and Junpei has a point about what her actions will do.
Best friend love =/= Loving someone who was your boyfriend, helped you deal with a terrible past, and finally find closure over the loss of your father.
remember the answer's only real effect is it auto assumes a max s. link run in journey & Shinji has a max s. link he survives getting shot by Takaya & is in a coma but wakes up at graduation day
Yukari's reasoning for wanting the key's is very selfish. I do understand her wanting to see Minato again, but if he lives, then there will be noone to guard the world from Nyx...and Minato was the one who sacrificed himself in order to act as a lock.
Jake Koeppel Yukari's reasoning might be selfish but if you stop thinking she's a bitch and look from Mitsuru and Aigis's point of view she is just sad because she alwas loved P3MC and just want to see him again plus Elisabeth is trying to find a way to save him.
Honestly, I think what she was most mad about was the fact Aigis was there, she got to say goodbye. Yukari? She got a big nothing, just a sad goodbye in a hospital room with his dead unmoving body. Of course she'd be pissed at Aigis, especially when she can't even make up her mind about what she wants. She just became colder and more machine-like and cast away all the feelings he gave her. So Yukari was displaying all her sadness, despair and jealousy. It's just human.
I think that behind his door there would be only the past moment when Aigis sealed The Appraiser inside Minato, understood? It's so simple, since each door shows a particular moment of each character's past, it's really understandable that there could be only the moment when the Fall began in his room. I hope to be clear.
HEY, I KNOW, LET'S GO BACK IN TIME TO PREVENT HIM FROM SAVING THE GODDAMN PLANET SO I CAN SPEND 5 EXTRA MINUTES WITH HIM EVEN THOUGH HE MAY NOT EVEN LIKE ME! You have a brain Yukari. USE IT.
I understand how yukari feels but I wonder if they make a remake for the game like the felmale verisn in the psp am just thinking if aihiko act the same way like yukair beause the felmc dies it be probley be trun around and hes like acting like toaltl jerk to everyone beause the femc dies is just pain full ot see his best frined dies but his girl friend it hurts I understand why yukiar is acting this way because she miss him
This is the most touching scene you know? I played The Answer many times just to see this one. Yukari is childish, that's the fact. But if you look at her history with MC, despite the others, I think it's really logical for her to act like this. She loves him so much and she's jealous of Aigis because Aigis is inheriting his powers and also the only one who stay with him before he died. So no wonder why she act like that. Anyway, Junpei is really cool. He's the most mature in this Arc
ive actually seen the answer not trailer but sneak peek of p3p and apparantly if playing as the FEMC its shinji that causes time to stop minako is still alive even though she was the seal like minato
Yukari: GIVE ME THE KEY GIVE ME IT! Metis: Too late Queen Bitch, Only My Sister can use it. *Yukari Breaks into Sobs* Metis: Not Buying the fake Tears.
In the normal P3 game, the Aeon Arcana didn't exist, it's FES/P3P exclusive, and she was chosen to be the one for the Aeon S.Link. Her Persona is still Chariot though. In "The Answer," she gains the MC's "Wild Card" ability, the ability to hold multiple Personas, which due to it's nature, would most likely be tied to the Fool Arcana. (That last part is an assumption. Only reason I can think of as to why she's listed as Fool.)
I think it was a sign that she was getting even more desperate. I find that somewhat understandable. She probably knew in her heart it wouldn't work, but she just wanted to save Minato that much.
Because she isn't thinking about the other people who held him dear, just herself and MC. She may love him but he made a decision and she of all people should have accepted that, of course her and Aigis would grieve but still. She thought she was alone I can see why she would be unhappy and lonely, but you don't just think of yourself and take things off others like a toddler.
a couple in the storyboard (you can feel that in the island event), but I love that she has a "realistic" reaction to all the situation, not something like "Oh ok friends, here thank you, i'm so happy!!!". And besides: one of her Garudyne make a LOT of damage if well setup, so Yukari rules the world. And Michelle Ruff dubbed her, so she wins.
Impossible... A Way of Binding 63!?! I need to use my Bankai. Bankai, kawanishi-noseguchi, kinunobebashi, takiyama, uguisunomori, tsuzumigataki, tada, hirano, ichinotorii, uneno, yamashita, sasabe, kofudai, tokiwadai, myonkenguchi
yeah there a persona 3 portable but atlus or the owners of shin- megami made it not possible to make Junpei a Love interest because of his feelings for Chidori you'll just get hurt if you choose him but theres always : Akihiko, Ken , Shinji . OH and Ryoji and a new character in the velvet room Theodore or Elizabeth
Nah, when you check her status in Tartarus, it says that her weapon is her bare hand. Maybe shes got wicked kung fu like that girl in P4! And wasn't her persona like a super powerful shield as well?
@hitsugayahinamori - I agree with that ^_^ , though something's telling me that Ken(due to his overall personality) would probably be the one begging for the key. Also, seeing as Akihiko acts as a mentor of sorts to Ken, he somehow fits Mitsuru's role here, sooo....but of course this is all imo, (seeing Akihiko and Ken hugging in Yukari's and Mitsuru's place= BL!) btw....moving onto my video commentary...Yukari did seem like a bitch, but give her a break; she's still human you know.
The Character Sprites Are Like They Are Alive. This Game Is Amazing. The Shin Megami tensei Series Is Awesome. But Hands Down My Favorite Game In the Series Is Persona. There Are No Words To Describe This Game It Is Amazing Thats All Thir Is To It.
No problem. And of course we know he had no other choice, and they don't really find that out till later in the game Up until this point, all they know is he just killed his self. And I'll say it again, when someone that close to you dies, you don't think rationally. The main theme of Persona is how realistic it is to peoples psyches, Usually in video games we see people banding together after someone's death, when in reality the death of someone can push people apart.
It's how the Colosseo Purgatorio works. The losers vanish and become the fires that light the torches, but are restored once the keys are combined into the true key. If, however, the flames go out, those people will likely be gone forever.
That is fairly true but she should consider how MC would feel if he saw his friends fighting over it like that. They would ALL have to consider that. And then when he made that decision it was now or never, it might sound like he's an ass-hole but he had no time to waste. And thanks for Conversing with me, I found this quite entertaining.
It doesn't work on the dead and they are items that can only be used in battle. Shinjiro and Minato did not fall in battle, they fell outside the dark hour as well.
If you haven't played the game it's better not to know the second thing XD if you are not going to (otherwise don't read ahead) MC is the main charachter, AKA Minato, and he's the reason why yukari's crying
Well,tthat's true,but she's just thinking COMPLETELY straight-forward,ignoring the fact of what could happen if they LOSE to Nyx if they go back to the past.
Yukari, I understand that she would want to do anything to bring minato back, but EVERYONE WANTS TO SEE HIM, you can't just let him die again or let the whole world die just to see him, I don't think she was thinking about the consequences of going back to the past, she would just see him float away again, then forget it happened until he goes into his coma...AGAIN But I completely understand her, she just isn't thinking straight
only cuz she pushes every other person away from her she claims she can't be understood but makes no attempt to find someone who will understand her in all honesty she never went out with the mc cuz they had things in common she went out with him cuz he was a popular person shes just being plain difficult what anyone sees in her i will never know
um isnt Yukari part of the lovers arcana, and if you assumed a max social link run with the MC, then I would say she is probably feeling like she lost the only person who understood her...
5:20 - 5:29 if they could do that this whole time why didnt they do that instead of killing each other and why couldnt metis keep her mouth shut to avoid the whole conflict
i figure the Answer would be COMPLETELY different, since the female protagonist was alot closer to everybody in the party (Dorm) There would be almost no reason for the answer to exist in the female side. either that or it will be broken and be filled with random plot holes...
If the ending to the original Persona 3 didn't make you cry, then welcome to Persona 3 Fes!
Didnt play answer but yeah persona 3 fes is sad.
It should be Persona 3 Feels
I cried cause when I first played it I never seen it COMINGGGGGGG
Oh God...I cried once Yukari started to take that key from Aigis and yelled at her, and saying that she wanted to see him again. I just can't look at the screen, it made me cried even more :(
MC: "Okay guys as far as I can remember you all were very cold to me, and we had only a WORKING RELATIONSHIP. Yes I'm looking at you Kirijo."
know is a three year old comment ,but as far when i played the game i ended up really liking Kirijo
I love how they make Yukari in the game (Normal and Answer). To the begin she is a little (or big) bitch, then she become more gentle in confront of Minato. Eventually (in my case) she falls in love with him. I don't understand why people hate her: She desperates for the lost of Minato (friend or partner), off course she doesn't think rationally in the key decision: she has the chance to "revive" Minato. I understand that people hate that Atlus almost make Yukari - Minato
They hate her because they don’t seem to actually understand how grief works completely.
That's how I feel as well! (: I think the whole scene would have been much more bland if Yukari would have just been like "Okkayy here is my key ; Friendship power." Lol. Yukari's reactions are my favorite. I mean they all miss him but you could really tell that she cared for him. It was heart-warming in my opinion.
It was The Answer that made Yukari my favorite character to begin with, and this was a key moment. It’s such a humane reaction.
thats in the journey and its not a "save" the MC, because they all die in the alternate ending...
one way or another, the MC dies anyway.
I agree with that, but it the end it was a "normal reaction". When a man/woman has the chance to realise his/her dream, he/she become close-mind and he/she doesn't care about consequences. The character designs of Atlus manage to create "realistic" character, with their exagerations off course. And beside, think about the begin of P3, where Yukari is holding her "evoker" in a suicidal pose. I understand that she felt lonely, and when Minato dies that feel rises again. Atlus, make Persona 5. THX
Ken's voice....
I suspect him to be Marge Simpson's hidden son.
It's amazing,so many people hating on Yukari... Imagine you had a hard life, and someone came along that helped you, healed your wounds, led you down a path of betterment, that ultimately resolved feelings you had over your fathers death. Someone who made you laugh, made you smile, and was more than just a best friend, someone you may as well lost your virginity to... Now imagine they died, and you are given a chance to see them again. So why all the hate?
(MC comes with teddie's suit)
MC: Come on, don't fight over me, baby
He made the decision by his self, without asking any of them how they feel. She is the canon love interest, so it would make sense she would be hurt that her boyfriend wouldn't even consider her feelings before he did something. then the girl who's always there for her boyfriend, gets to hear his last words AND gets his power. Basically she feels like her lover killed hisself without caring how she would feel, and some other girl got everything in the will.
That is true. When someone you love dies. She lost her father and from what it looks like she was a daddies girl. She lost the one person who helped her heal her wounds and reconsile with her mother now for reasons the don't know he died for them. Death makes anyone lose sence of right and wrong especially when you knowtheres a way to bring them back
I noticed how Aigis voice turned a lot more natural and human since they day we met her
Beautiful
This would have made an awesome anime scene
Same here.
I cried when Yukari revealed how much she truly loved Minato, but just because he's gone doesn't mean you can just undo everything.
She really isn't thinking straight and Junpei has a point about what her actions will do.
I like seriously just got through this part and I started crying when Yukari did lmao
Yea This is about to get good! XD
can't wait to see the next part!
gimmie that key rawr rawr rawr
4:26 "Isn't that the whole point of forming such bonds?"
If it was, He wouldn't be dead now would he?
watching this playthrough, there has been a waterfall on my face the entire time nbd
Best friend love =/= Loving someone who was your boyfriend, helped you deal with a terrible past, and finally find closure over the loss of your father.
It's kinda funny how horribly yukari takes MC's death when she was just one of the many Gekkoukan honies he was macking on.
yeah, and look how well that ended for them, i think yukari is realistic. it really brings home the narrative, "the consequences of your actions".
remember the answer's only real effect is it auto assumes a max s. link run in journey & Shinji has a max s. link he survives getting shot by Takaya & is in a coma but wakes up at graduation day
i know is a three year old comment but weird what you learn each day(yesterday) didnt know that
i feel so sorry for yukari..... ;~;
A persona 3 movie is actually coming out soon.
Yukari's reasoning for wanting the key's is very selfish. I do understand her wanting to see Minato again, but if he lives, then there will be noone to guard the world from Nyx...and Minato was the one who sacrificed himself in order to act as a lock.
know is 2 year old comment, and never played answers ,but yeah i get that and if i am not mistaken isnt doesnt Elisabeth try to find away to free him?
Tord L She does, yeah.
Jake Koeppel Yukari's reasoning might be selfish but if you stop thinking she's a bitch and look from Mitsuru and Aigis's point of view she is just sad because she alwas loved P3MC and just want to see him again plus Elisabeth is trying to find a way to save him.
ルイRui this. I might have just commented to you, but I am scared how so many people don’t get how badly grief can cloud judgement.
Honestly, I think what she was most mad about was the fact Aigis was there, she got to say goodbye. Yukari? She got a big nothing, just a sad goodbye in a hospital room with his dead unmoving body. Of course she'd be pissed at Aigis, especially when she can't even make up her mind about what she wants. She just became colder and more machine-like and cast away all the feelings he gave her. So Yukari was displaying all her sadness, despair and jealousy. It's just human.
uhh the female S.Link Shinjiro has one max it out before he dies & hes alive at end
But the answer presumes a male protag
B A that, and portable wasn’t a thing at the time.
YURI MOMENT!!!!
WAIT. MARCH 31??!! THAT'S THE DAY OF MY BIRTHDAY!
I think that behind his door there would be only the past moment when Aigis sealed The Appraiser inside Minato, understood? It's so simple, since each door shows a particular moment of each character's past, it's really understandable that there could be only the moment when the Fall began in his room. I hope to be clear.
I DON'T KNOW HOW TO FEEL.
I guess you considered to be in the "narm" territory.
both yukari and aigis love him the most
HEY, I KNOW, LET'S GO BACK IN TIME TO PREVENT HIM FROM SAVING THE GODDAMN PLANET SO I CAN SPEND 5 EXTRA MINUTES WITH HIM EVEN THOUGH HE MAY NOT EVEN LIKE ME!
You have a brain Yukari. USE IT.
so touching and sad ;_;
Shinjiro is dead(Such a waste a cool character) so he wouldn´t and Junpei(da man) has Chidori.
shijiro dies remeber
And Mitsuru's Father and Akihiko's Sister Miki too
I understand how yukari feels but I wonder if they make a remake for the game like the felmale verisn in the psp am just thinking if aihiko act the same way like yukair beause the felmc dies it be probley be trun around and hes like acting like toaltl jerk to everyone beause the femc dies is just pain full ot see his best frined dies but his girl friend it hurts I understand why yukiar is acting this way because she miss him
I'M WITH YOU! They need to stop calling her that! They never understand what she'd been through >
After this, it's really, really hard NOT to ship MitsuYuka. Or at least think they're adorable because DAMN Mitsuru if you aren't the best Senpai
This is the most touching scene you know? I played The Answer many times just to see this one.
Yukari is childish, that's the fact. But if you look at her history with MC, despite the others, I think it's really logical for her to act like this. She loves him so much and she's jealous of Aigis because Aigis is inheriting his powers and also the only one who stay with him before he died.
So no wonder why she act like that.
Anyway, Junpei is really cool. He's the most mature in this Arc
At least Junpei never said HEYYYYYYY
yeah i can't wait till the movie
1:38
If I am Aigis, I would punch Yukari in the face at this moment.
ive actually seen the answer not trailer but sneak peek of p3p and apparantly if playing as the FEMC its shinji that causes time to stop minako is still alive even though she was the seal like minato
its good to see Koro-chan and the rest back
i though something will screw up and u wont get them back
such long comments from previous *copies junpei's shocked face*
remember P3P has a shinjiro social link if u max it out before fortune & strength fight then Shinjiro lives but is in a coma & wakes at end of game
if you cry because you want see him...like this (y)
Amen.
And then Fuuka decides to fight...and she's like Shadow Rise and uses Supreme Inisght to nullify all attacks 0_0
Yukari: GIVE ME THE KEY GIVE ME IT!
Metis: Too late Queen Bitch, Only My Sister can use it.
*Yukari Breaks into Sobs*
Metis: Not Buying the fake Tears.
In the normal P3 game, the Aeon Arcana didn't exist, it's FES/P3P exclusive, and she was chosen to be the one for the Aeon S.Link. Her Persona is still Chariot though. In "The Answer," she gains the MC's "Wild Card" ability, the ability to hold multiple Personas, which due to it's nature, would most likely be tied to the Fool Arcana. (That last part is an assumption. Only reason I can think of as to why she's listed as Fool.)
I think it was a sign that she was getting even more desperate. I find that somewhat understandable. She probably knew in her heart it wouldn't work, but she just wanted to save Minato that much.
YukarixMitsuru ftw! \o/ in my mind,they're canon! \o/
Because she isn't thinking about the other people who held him dear, just herself and MC. She may love him but he made a decision and she of all people should have accepted that, of course her and Aigis would grieve but still. She thought she was alone I can see why she would be unhappy and lonely, but you don't just think of yourself and take things off others like a toddler.
a couple in the storyboard (you can feel that in the island event), but I love that she has a "realistic" reaction to all the situation, not something like "Oh ok friends, here thank you, i'm so happy!!!".
And besides: one of her Garudyne make a LOT of damage if well setup, so Yukari rules the world. And Michelle Ruff dubbed her, so she wins.
Impossible... A Way of Binding 63!?! I need to use my Bankai.
Bankai, kawanishi-noseguchi, kinunobebashi, takiyama, uguisunomori, tsuzumigataki, tada, hirano, ichinotorii, uneno, yamashita, sasabe, kofudai, tokiwadai, myonkenguchi
Yukari started this whole thing :| That big blabbermouth. Still sad :
and since its also bound to aigis....well...
His name's "Makoto Yuki" in the movie.
yeah there a persona 3 portable but atlus or the owners of shin- megami made it not possible to make Junpei a Love interest because of his feelings for Chidori you'll just get hurt if you choose him but theres always :
Akihiko, Ken , Shinji . OH and Ryoji and a new character in the velvet room Theodore or Elizabeth
ohh yukari, get over it!!!
@omegaevolution ...THAT SUCKS.... enough said (for me)
What the hell!They can use balm of life into shinjiro and minato to revive them again!!Jeez.
umm no actually you can only use balm of life/revival bead if he or she is unconscious XD
And so, Yukari throws a hissy fit...
Once again, I say if the MC wasn't a mime, his ghost would show up to give her a slap.
Nah, when you check her status in Tartarus, it says that her weapon is her bare hand. Maybe shes got wicked kung fu like that girl in P4! And wasn't her persona like a super powerful shield as well?
how could they? make everyone in the world happy so the fall wouldn't happen?
@hitsugayahinamori - I agree with that ^_^ , though something's telling me that Ken(due to his overall personality) would probably be the one begging for the key. Also, seeing as Akihiko acts as a mentor of sorts to Ken, he somehow fits Mitsuru's role here, sooo....but of course this is all imo, (seeing Akihiko and Ken hugging in Yukari's and Mitsuru's place= BL!)
btw....moving onto my video commentary...Yukari did seem like a bitch, but give her a break; she's still human you know.
The Character Sprites Are Like They Are Alive. This Game Is Amazing. The Shin Megami tensei Series Is Awesome. But Hands Down My Favorite Game In the Series Is Persona. There Are No Words To Describe This Game It Is Amazing Thats All Thir Is To It.
No problem. And of course we know he had no other choice, and they don't really find that out till later in the game Up until this point, all they know is he just killed his self. And I'll say it again, when someone that close to you dies, you don't think rationally.
The main theme of Persona is how realistic it is to peoples psyches, Usually in video games we see people banding together after someone's death, when in reality the death of someone can push people apart.
@kalakauai I know this is late but no it wouldnt junpei isnt selectable in the end since he falls in love with chidori
Yeah, Much like with P4 the official name will most likely be different than the manga version.
U rite u rite
but they can't know fuuka's weakness, what if she has everything "absorb"
why do Yukari and Mitsuru disappear at 0.03 then reappear?
It's how the Colosseo Purgatorio works. The losers vanish and become the fires that light the torches, but are restored once the keys are combined into the true key. If, however, the flames go out, those people will likely be gone forever.
@omegaevolution Please don't tell me that is the alternate ending of P3P...
That is fairly true but she should consider how MC would feel if he saw his friends fighting over it like that. They would ALL have to consider that. And then when he made that decision it was now or never, it might sound like he's an ass-hole but he had no time to waste. And thanks for Conversing with me, I found this quite entertaining.
It doesn't work on the dead and they are items that can only be used in battle. Shinjiro and Minato did not fall in battle, they fell outside the dark hour as well.
@celciaM You cannot save the MC in P3FES, You can let him live if you kill Ryoji in P3. But thats about it
If they make an english movie, i will buy it on blu-ray o.o
Hell, If I was in that position, I'd probably do the same thing. ;_;
If you haven't played the game it's better not to know the second thing XD if you are not going to (otherwise don't read ahead) MC is the main charachter, AKA Minato, and he's the reason why yukari's crying
Well,tthat's true,but she's just thinking COMPLETELY straight-forward,ignoring the fact of what could happen if they LOSE to Nyx if they go back to the past.
@kalakauai P3P doesn't include the answer.
It's okay Yukari! you can still see him if you "renew" the game... :)
@Rimfire748 Dude doesn't entirely mean a guy, to him it's more of a saying.
2:46 well you can’t do that cuz he ded
Yukari, I understand that she would want to do anything to bring minato back, but EVERYONE WANTS TO SEE HIM, you can't just let him die again or let the whole world die just to see him, I don't think she was thinking about the consequences of going back to the past, she would just see him float away again, then forget it happened until he goes into his coma...AGAIN
But I completely understand her, she just isn't thinking straight
Dude? ah does Junpei have something wrong with his eyes doesn;t Dude mean a Guy?
nah she's just in love really she loves minato and she just gets angry its the teenage ankst
only cuz she pushes every other person away from her she claims she can't be understood but makes no attempt to find someone who will understand her in all honesty she never went out with the mc cuz they had things in common she went out with him cuz he was a popular person shes just being plain difficult what anyone sees in her i will never know
um isnt Yukari part of the lovers arcana, and if you assumed a max social link run with the MC, then I would say she is probably feeling like she lost the only person who understood her...
5:20 - 5:29 if they could do that this whole time why didnt they do that instead of killing each other and why couldnt metis keep her mouth shut to avoid the whole conflict
haha, but this is permanent death, when you use balm of life in battle their status were just unconcious.
Tell that to Yu. He doesn't choose girls, THEY ALL CHOOSE HIM 0_0
...I'm pretty sure it was just the way the English voice actor spoke the lines, the Japanese version sounded less snarky to me.
i figure the Answer would be COMPLETELY different, since the female protagonist was alot closer to everybody in the party (Dorm)
There would be almost no reason for the answer to exist in the female side. either that or it will be broken and be filled with random plot holes...