In Defense of Michael Bay's Optimus Prime | Talon Discussions | Video Essay
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- Опубліковано 30 лип 2024
- Here it is, my in-depth look at Michael Bay's Optimus Prime and why he isn't the bad character adaption that he is made out to be. I look at his various controversial actions and lines of dialogue from each movie, the war as presented in the Michael Bay films, accusations of war crimes, and more!
Any copyrighted material in this video is the property of it's respective owners and no copyright infringement is intended.
Chapters:
0:00 - Intro
3:02 - Backstory of the Bayverse
3:46 - The 2007 movie
5:13 - Revenge of The Fallen
14:47 - Dark of the Moon
33:28 - Age of Extinction
46:56 - The Last Knight
49:57 - Brutality, war, and how it relates to Optimus
55:03 - The portrayal of the Decepticons
56:53 - War crimes
01:01:11 - The character of Bayverse Optimus
01:07:25 - Comparisons between different versions
01:15:42 - The Peter Cullen of it all
01:19:53 - Conclusion
The music in this video is "Addict (Instrumental)", "Just Breathing (Instrumental)", "Go Down Swinging (Instrumental)" by NEFFEX, "Silent Partner" by The Wrong Way, "Traversing" by Godmode, "The Whole Other" by Valley of Spies, "It Was a Time" by TrackTribe, "Planetary Paths" Joel Cummins and Andy Farag, "Chasing the Dragons" by Joel Cummins, Kris Myers and Andy Farag, "Asleep With the Sun" by Unicorn heads, "Early Oceans" by Freedom Trail Studio, "Global" and "Tangled" by Emmit Fenn, and "scifi" and "newdawn" from Bensound and can be found here: www.bensound.com/royalty-free
All images used in this video were from Google searches, Hasbro Pulse and the TFW2005 boards.
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#Transformers #optimusprime #optimus #megatron #MichaelBay ##transformersriseofthebeasts #transformersrevengeofthefallen #Transformersdarkofthemoon #Transformersageofextinction #Transformersthelastknight #studioseries #Bumblebee #BacktoBaysics #videoessay
Any copyrighted material in this video is the property of it's respective owners and no copyright infringement is intended
Copyright Disclaimer under Section 107 of the copyright act 1976, allowance is made for fair use for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favour of fair use. - Розваги
In response to Prime killing The Fallen, you also have to acknowledge that Prime JUST WOKE UP FROM BEING KILLED. Like dude had to fight 4v1, managed to bring it down to a 1v1, was still highly anxious and in fight or flight mode, gets impaled in the back, shot, and left to die all while the last thing he sees is watching Sam get surrounded and for all intense and purposes, humanity going to be wiped out. All because he didn’t kill the Decepicons when he had the chance. Prime died full of fear, anger, and the feeling that he’d failed. Dude gets woken up and finds out he didn’t fail, but things are not any better. The world is balancing on a knife’s edge and he’s the only person able to save them. Try going to sleep knowing you got a big ass test for school in the morning, and being forced to sleep, only to wake up and find out you didn’t miss the test, but it’s happening RIGHT NOW and you’re in class surrounded by everyone. You’re gonna be franzled lol
Correction 3v1 but agree with what you said.
@@mohammadhossain9608Unless you include Sam cause ya know...he's kinda the reason why Megatron was able to backstab him. 😂😅
@@kennythetrend3688 True prime was concerned about him which gave megs an opportunity to stab him and blast his chest, i feel like the forest battle should be like the animatics where after killing grindor megs use this chance to stab him as he wasn't fast enought to react.
For real last thing dude felt and saw was himself being killed after a jumping and desperately tryna survive next thing you know the moment he wakes up he sees a doomsday device about to blow up the sun, same enemy and another he has no clue about while his comrades are literally fighting for him, dying, yelling and struggling to win
The Same people who complain about bay’s prime being a violent criminal and spreading his moral and integrity code are the same people who harassed Bayverse fans and Sending death threats to Michael Bay Since he landed on his role to direct the movies, let that sink in……..
Optimus Prime did something Thor couldn’t do go for the head
Lmao yes!
Hahaha
And Chris hemsworth played both of them 😂
War law arguments users when genociding a densely populated city like shanghai or chicago would get you the death penalty anyways: 😧
Exactly the cognitive dissonance is insane
Yeah they'll seemingly excuse the bad guys but give Prime grief for stopping these genocidal monsters that have shown that they won't stop. Crazy stuff!
¿What do you want me to tell you brother? Either people are very hypocritical sometimes or they are really stupid for not thinking about that 🤦♀️
@@Talon_Productions I just want you to at least have some answers to the Dotm bridge scene. Megatron did pull the trigger and tried to fire off a shot, the only problem is, he didn’t cock the gun prior to attacking Sentinel. So, when Optimus takes him by surprise, in his haste, he assumed the gun was in fact ready to fire, he was obviously, dead wrong. You can even see Optimus correctly cock it before firing. As for Sentinel, his woundings from Megatron may have just caused him to go blind.
@@Optimaloptimus Optimus killed Megatron because he didn't believe Megatron's offer was genuine, they'd been fighting for centuries. Honestly I'd have killed Megs. Sentinel's death was more like an execution, sure he was wounded and not a threat, but he killed innocents, or at least enabled the Cons to do it, clearly not concerned for Human lives at all aside from keeping them alive for slaves, he sided with Megatron in this plan and thus deserved death for all he'd done, he didn't even show remorse for it on the moment of his death, still tryign to justify his actions, maybe that was what finally set his fate, Optimus let Sentinel, his mentor, say his last words, but the attempt to justify his actions sealed his fate, as Optimus said before killing Sentinel, "You didn't betray me, you betrayed yourself." WHen you look into the IDW Movie comics and add them as "canon", this makes the scene so much sadder, as Sentinel had taught Optimus these lessons he take to heart, Sentinel was basically his father, or the closest he had to one, only to see Sentinel do all this, Sentinel betrayed the very ideals he taught Optimus, and in the end showed no remorse for his actions. Optimus also doesn't make the kill quick, he let's Sentinel speak, says he reply, then solemnly executes Sentinel with quick rather humane headshot, as going for the body would have likely caused more pain and suffering.
Bayverse complainers: „Bayverse Prime is a psychopath and a murderer."
Talon Productions: „Time to find out."
Oh I'm sure they won't like what I have to say lmao
@Talon_Productions bro honestly I'm so tired of these types of complaints bro like if any other Transformers is different bro do you know G1 show a lot of brutal stuff too right? Even at one point authors had his gun pointed his gun on Spike because he was in a Decepticons body and the thing was he knew about it but because Spike was having a temper tantrum he shot him and after he was down he still pointed his gun on him I don't know why we all just can't get along bro I don't have a problem with any Transformers bro I love all of them I hope you do my boy justice
I notice that a lot of fans just have these negative opinions about bayverse prime only because of UA-camrs who hate this optimus
@Crazinator Yeah I'm tired of it too, which is part of why I decided to make this video lmao. I hope that you enjoy the video!
@@Talon_ProductionsSuperb Video You blew this out of the park, and the haters can blow it out their Asses!
If Optimus prime is a war criminal, what does that make the deception?
According to TF5, regular criminals! 👍 epic lore moment
War heroes, we just want to go home
@@TSUNGFX big brain writers 🧠
Bayverse Prime is the most realistic version of Optimus we ever had. He just made more sense than his other iterations. Think about it, your best friend just betrayed you, enslaved and took the lives of all your friends and it has been happening for millions of years. Of course at some point in time, you would want to give your enemy a taste of their own medicine to demonstrate what happens when you cross the line. Megatron and his army have crossed many, many lines and all of them have paid the price. Optimus desires peace and sometimes diplomacy is no longer an option. There are always casualties in war and there are always consequences to the actions of everyone.
Another thing you have to realize is that a lot of the Decepticons Optimus killed, needed to be put down.
Boncrusher killed a bus full of humans = remove his head
Demolisher ran over innocent humans = pop his eye out
The Fallen attempted to blow up the sun = remove his face
Sentinel Prime betrayed the Autobots, killed Ironhide, and attempted to enslave humans. Not to mention he brought Cybertron to Earth = blow his brains out
Megatron would’ve been spared in 2007 if Sam didn’t use the Allspark on him. He was spared in ROTF but in DOTM after his true colors were revealed boom = off with his head
Lockdown would’ve been spared if he kept his eyes on his mission: capture Optimus. Instead, he went after humans and threatened to kill them = sliced in half
You can also tell nobody actually watched the movies because Optimus Prime’s lines literally tell you he’s not a psychopath at all. He’s just very strict and a bit blunt sometimes but he is still the same Optimus we always knew. Honest, wise, brave, compassionate, true, you name it. I recommend people watch the movies again before they criticize Bayverse Optimus.
❤❤❤❤❤❤
Bruh! You Said It, Not the Optimus we Wanted, But the Optimus We Needed. I can't agree with you more, everyone you said was dead on. Well Said! Till All Are One My friend!
@@TheSorcererAhrimanahsul I’m glad to know there are people out there who understand Bayverse Optimus and why he is the way he is.
It is nice to see more like-minded people since the ones that complain about Bay Prime are such a loud crowd.
@@GalvatronStudios Absolutely. I loved the Bayverse , not just the figures which I thought was an Adults Toy that we never got as children I was born in 78 i watched all the epicness of Saturday cartoons and toy lines. BUT My favorites aspect of the Bayverse story line was an Adult Oriented and gave us how it SHOULD have been. I thought several times he gave way too much room for trouble so it only made sense that he started realizing "Something's Never Change", and MUST BE DEALT WITH! NOW Megatron was blood thirsty if Anyone was blood thirsty.
About the "Give me your face" thing. Ive seen people say and believe that what was ripped off was a mask, and The Fallens real face is what was underneath. And since all the primes are shown having a similar looking mask, that mask represents being a prime. So Robo Jesus removing that mask was actually him removing the title of "Prime" from the Fallen. Pretty cool.
I'm sure it's relatively talked about still up until now, but i believe that when he ripped his "face" Off
That wasn't really a Mask and actually his own formal head and the thing we see after it was ripped off was pretty much his internal Skull rather than the real face
It doesn't relatively make sense to consider it as the real face for someone like him but you know, not that it's really pointed out and all
Yeah agreed. The mask idea was neat but as presented in the movie that is his actual face being ripped off showing the "skull" underneath.
@@Talon_Productions even as he was killed off, i personally feel like he had that level of lasting impact that garnered much more personal love from a good chunk of RoTF Fans in general
That's the magic i see with him, no matter how frivolous the reception he got in the end.
(Like me personally, ever since i saw Revenge of the Fallen at such an early age even before the 07 movie
I've been OBSESSED in wanting to get a figure that perfectly represented his presence and form, and that was at least 17 or so years ago, and since then, i got the OSKO (oversized KO) of the Studio Series The Fallen, and I've been happy since then that i got the character I've longed admired and had wished to get all those years)
@@dwightoalog8022 Glad to see someone that likes him! I love The Fallen in ROTF. He is admittedly lackluster as a villain, but he has a great presence when he is onscreen, has a fantastic design, and Tony Todd's performance is awesome.
I'm with you on the figures too. I've been desperate for a movie accurate Fallen ever since 2009. The Hunt For The Decepticons Voyager was good for the time, but man the Studio Series figure just nailed it! That was my top Transformers of 2022, so freaking good! The oversized version is awesome too, the paint is awesome although I wish it was a tad more accurate but that doesn't take away from how good that figure is as a whole!
@@Talon_Productions i myself owned the Hunt for the Decepticons Version too!
That figure was out right ahead of its time apart from its strange aqua-esc color scheme, the Studio Series very much delivered us the needed improvements from the old Voyager and added more than what we've expected!
Bayverse haters: “This is not your franchise to rule G1 shall rise again.”
Talon Productions: “Not today.”
I rise u fall
😭😭
All of those “Michael Bay must be stopped no matter the cost!” Comments and similar ones like “This is the end of the road Michael Bay!” Might actually be the cringiest posts I have ever seen online. (Edit: The 1986 Transformers movie was great but not a masterpiece. Fight me.)
Neither will rise at all, there's better alternatives like Animated or Prime.
@@rockettbennett i'm honestly not a fan of most of the tf movies, i like the 86 movie tf1, dotm and bumblebee but the rest are mid. (i agree with your point, the only masterpeice is bumblebee. That is the perfect TF movie)
Most people who complain about Bayverse Prime probably know nothing about military or war.
clearly none of you saw the video or else you would understand that, with that being said good day
Yeah exactly they think it's rainbow n sh!t XD
No, its just that optimus is supposed to be a nice guy and you don't really get the benefit of the doubt when you say things like " give me your face"
@@leonrussell9607 everything already explained
did you even watch the video?
even in rotb he is beyond "nice guy"
@@DaVibeCreator I haven't finished the video but I wasn't talking about ROTB, the fallen should definitely be killed but saying "give me your face" for no reason is definitely a bit odd
It's insane people think Megatron, the dude who attempted genocide on Earth TWICE BEFORE, was being sincere about a truce. Why do people just forget he declared that Earth was his planet???
It's also insane people got mad at Optimus for reacting angrily to watching a video of one of his closest friends be melted down by the people he sacrificed Cybertron for and used for parts for man made frankenstein like abominations. Like, do you want him to just be like, "damn that sucks. oh well." He didn't even kill anyone at the KSI base, bro literally told Hound to stand down when Hound wanted to shoot the head of KSI.
People can not like the gritty and edge to the bayverse, that's fine, but to claim Prime was in the wrong in these situations is crazy.
Also Optimus hitting TJ Miller is objectively the most morally justified thing he's done in the franchise
Oh hey. Love your iceberg vids my dude.
Because in the novel, which was supposed to be the canon ending originally, he was being truthful
REALLY‼️, I mean Megatron LITERALLY committed genocide in the "battle of Chichago" along with the other Decepticons when they PULVERIZED humans, ¿and people believe that Optimus is going to accept a truce with him?
They are completely crazy, ¿who in their right mind would trust Megatron when he murdered humans and autobots? not to be trusted in any way.
¡¡¡EXACT!!! OPTIMUS HAS EVERY DAMN RIGHT TO BE ANNOYED!
What humans did with the dead pieces of their comrades is simply inhumane and unforgivable (in my opinion).
I'm surprised he even kept his "calm" because the poor guy looked like he was going to have a mental breakdown at that moment when Joshua said they were "his technology" (I would have loved for someone to punch Joshua).
Also, ¿do people forget that Hound was ready to kill Joshua and the other humans? He was simply saved because Optimus told him no.
Dude, people really hate Optimus Bayverse for behaving like a real damn person would if he were in their place 🤷♀️.
@@kinglycrimsonNot to mention that this ending was changed because it was leaked, not because the filmmakers wanted to improve it.
REALLY‼️, I mean Megatron LITERALLY committed genocide in the "battle of Chichago" along with the other Decepticons when they PULVERIZED humans, ¿and people believe that Optimus is going to accept a truce with him?
They are completely crazy, ¿who in their right mind would trust Megatron when he murdered humans and autobots? not to be trusted in any way 🤦♀️
¡¡¡EXACT!!! ¡OPTIMUS HAS EVERY DAMN RIGHT TO BE ANNOYED!
What humans did with the dead pieces of their comrades is simply inhumane and unforgivable (in my opinion).
I'm surprised he even kept his "calm" because the poor guy looked like he was going to have a mental breakdown at that moment when Joshua said they were "his technology" (I would have loved for someone to punch Joshua).
Also, ¿do people forget that Hound was ready to kill Joshua and the other humans?
He was simply saved because Optimus told him no 🤌
Dude, people really hate Optimus Bayverse for behaving like a real damn person would if he were in their place 🤷♀️
What people who complain about this Prime don’t get is that war can’t be won with hugs and plushies
Decisions need to be made
G1 Optimus never killed anyone and was way too kind with his enemies, still if you like that version it is ok
Just saying that his kindness brought him his own death
Even more ironic when you realize that, both time he die, it’s because Megatron have hostage of some kind
Shattered glass optimus definitely showed what frickin war criminal is
Facts lmao
The guy was literally absolutely crazy in the comic ☠️
@@SUGARSWEET-pz2wx What did he do? I know this is Autobots bad and Decepticons good but seriously what did prime do?
@@mohammadhossain9608 You Don't want to know…
@@デストロイア I can handle it, so what did he did.
Yeah! Optimus Prime is becoming more aggressive towards The Decepticons for a good reason.
After how many years of being belittled, trolled, bullied outcasted for being a fan of the Michael Bay’s Transformers’s movie, this video restored back my love for Transformers again. Thank you Talon for being the light on the tunnel❤
You give me hope❤
Men are still good.
Of course, and thank you for checking it out! Really glad that you enjoyed the video and that I could help!
The moment when Joshua tells Optimus that they are no longer needed is honestly spark crushing. All the friends he lost, his home had to be sacrificed ,half of it ,so as not to damn another world who is innocent, and after millions of years of conflict, what did Prime get in the end: his remaining comrades were hunted down like dogs and their corpses were used for science abominations, the good they did for Earth was literally watered down to"we needed you, but now we can make you better so f..k off". But what makes this a bit better is that in spite of all this in the end, when Shaghai was attacked, Optimus , the supposed war criminal and psychopath, still chose to protect and save the humans in the end.
Yeah that scene is rough, for so many reasons but you're right! Despite it all, Optimus still came to help, I really do love Prime's story in AOE.
@@Talon_Productionsi LOVE that movie too
They're not _your_ property!
_They were my friends..._
I feel like Optimus getting more violent is just, an understandable downfall due to the events of the movies. His friends are dying one by one, and every time decepticons show up, more civilians are killed, eventually coming to a head at the battle of Chicago. And after that, with cemetery wind, it just gets even worse from there
Yeah it all makes sense when you look at the movies themselves and everything that goes on. Unfortunately, some people love to ignore context to make dumb arguments.
problem with g1 fans is, they allways think optimus got to be allways positive, even its sooo unreal to be true. Optimus went the worst of worst of worst in his life. And NOONE would react positivelly at his possition. And by wishing and complaining about him not being nice, positive, hold his cool, they are hurting him,cause its not healthy to keep that all in himselve, and very hypocratic. Everyone could have total mental breakdown,but optimus? You realise how unhealthy that is? Even though it is JUST A FICTIONAL character to sell toys, but if you see him as character, he must have emotions, good and bad emotions,otherwise he would be just a machine without a soul. G1 FANS think of optimus like someone from humans. Everyone can feel sad had breakdowns, cry, scream, get angry, exept this one person. Do you realise how that person feel, to realise he got to hold it in himselve, because if he wouldn't, all those who are calling themselve the OG FANS of him, would abandon him, and leave him be. Here you can see the TRUE LOAYALITY. Those of use who go away if someone is changed, are not true fans, not true friends. You can put it in real life. How many times happend to you that people were happy by what you are doin, but right when you decide to do it your own and diferent way, they would turn against you, those who you called your fans, closest friends? THE TRUE FAN AND FRIEND WILL STAND BY YOU NO MATTER WHAT, he would even help you with what you are doin.
And the thing is if everyone around you likes you, you are doin something wrong, and you are not being yourselve, just someone they want you to be.
I admit bayverese its not the best of transformers, those movies got their flaws, but Im never leaving this continuity. BAYVERSE FOREVER.
Also I appologise if I made some grammar misstakes, Im not from english speaking country.
Also transformers are more than g1, so please if you dont like a certain continuity, dont be rude about it, just dont watch it.
And what would WE be if we all got the same taste of movies, music, food, etc... Just sooulles beings and nothing more. That is why its.allright to have diferent tastes.
Agreed af
This should be applied to Superman and DC comics in general.
32:50 THANK YOU!!! People keep saying Optimus is a bloodthirsty monster, but after he killed Megatron and Sentinel, at no point is Optimus "Happy" about what he did. He looks between both their corpses, looking tired, depressed, even the score at that point is showing that something massive and terrible had happened, and was not celebrating it at all. Optimus did what he had to do, but only because he was pushed. He begged and pleaded, even when his arm was cut off, but in the end, he realized that no one was going to listen to him.
EXACTLY, Optimus literally BEGGED AND PLEADED with Sentinel, he tried at times to change Sentinel's mind, but the dude literally cut off Optimus's arm and was just abotu ready to kill Optimus, OP was like a son to Sentinel, look how brutally Sentinel beat Optimus, plus at the end when he was injured, Sentinel had a chance to convince Optimus not to kill him, Optimus didn't immediatly do the kill, he let Sentinel speak first, and what did he say? He still in the end tries to justify his actions, showing no remorse for anything he did, he still tried to convince Optimus he was in the right. Then, OP says "You didn't betray me, you betrayed yourself", Sentinel was made very clearly to have been OP's predecessor and likely mentor, throw in the comics and this is made more clearer, Sentinel taught OP his morals, or at least layed enough of a foundation for OP to find his own, thus the line of "You betrayed yourself", Sentinel had once ben a good man, or at least in OP's perspective, but this film he saw a different Sentinel.
I think Presentation is the main the issue over what the film did; the kill shots are framed like awesome Slasher killer kills, not like someone making a hard desision for the greater good.
That isn't really how it is framed at all. Optimus double taps Sentinel and he immediately drops his shoulders in a sigh and we see him looking around, clearly not okay with everything that went down, and tossing the shotgun away in disgust. While the moment may have been cathartic due to Sentinel getting what he deserved, it was hardly framed as "awesome".
So basically, the Bayverse depiction of Prime and the discussion surrounding it (and to an extent, the rest of the Autobots) is a Star Wars Prequel scenario where people take things out of context to make him look worse than he actually is in context.
Yeah, to be honest, Bay Prime is very overhated. Don't get me wrong, the jokes of him being a war criminal who kills everyone in his seemingly endless quest to Contain the China Virus (thanks, Jobby) are pretty funny, but when you think about it, and properly watch these movies, you realise that people are taking things out of context and exaggerating to an extreme degree. If anything, I think the reason why people come down hard on this depiction of the character is because of the Aligned canon (AKA. the videogames War for and Fall of Cybertron and animated series Transformers Prime), which delivered a depiction that perfectly balanced the war hero aspects of Bay's version with the more traditional heroic/fatherly aspects of G1 Prime. So ultimately, this is a case of people being spoilt by something else and going after the thing that paved the way for it whilst misrepresenting it entirely.
P.S. YES, The Cybertron games and Prime are much better than the Bay movies, but we shouldn't misrepresent these movies to explain why.
I can agree with most of this! I, too, enjoy the jokes and whatnot but only when they are clearly jokes. It is when people try taking these hyperbolic statements as being true and accurate that I don't like. People out there definitely take things out of context. I think that the comparison to the Aligned version of the character could be a factor for some but I'm not sure that it is a huge factor overall. I have seen plenty of comparisons between the two versions though which is why I covered that in the comparison section.
I'm with you though, there is no need to misrepresent things.
@@Talon_Productions Agreed. It's okay to dislike Bay Prime. But at least make sure to use context as to why when you provide reasoning. And yeah, there are genuine instances of noble characters being derailed into murderous psychopathic designated heroes, I.E. Selene, who went from a noble vampire heroine in the urban fantasy movies Underworld and Underworld Evolution to a bloodthirsty maniac in the fourth entry of that series (Awakening), or fellow Transformers character Windblade, who became a single-minded genocidal moron in the abominable adult animated Combiner Wars show. But Optimus Prime in the Michael Bay Transformers movies is NOT one of them.
If anything, watching this video as someone who genuinely likes the 2007 Transformers movie actually makes me want to watch the other Bay movies (Dark of the Moon in particular), because Prime's depiction in them is actually a consistent and solid one going off of this video. And honestly, Age of Extinction despite being terrible from what I've seen has a _fantastic_ character arc for him. It's unfortunate that the discourse surrounding said arc and Prime in general truly is a Star Wars Prequel situation where things are being taken out of context and the character is being misrepresented.
Let's not forget when Sentinel was about to kill Optimus he actually said "Please" as Sentinel kicked him down and raised his blade further adding to the point that Sentinel was a real son of a bitch willing to kill his own pseudo son and student even when he actually begs for mercy on not only himself and humanity
It’s funny how IDW Optimus decapitates Galvatron and drops his head near the White House but Bayverse Optimus quickly kills rampaging Decepticons and is called a war criminal.
See, it's okay for him to be a war criminal as long as he looks like a cartoony red box.
@@spongeboymebob771As long as he looks like a lunch box it's fine! Geez. Don't you get it?
@@Zodiac3107 Of course, how could I have been so blind?
It's okay to change things up every so often, as long as everything stays the exact same, forever.
@@Zodiac3107Christ, i hate thr Genwunner's favouritism, it's good as long as it looks like G1.
To be "fair", those same people complained about prime's decapitation of galvatron in IDW as well. People weren't happy that prime annexed earth into the cybertronian "universal peace-keeping council" without hesitation or consideration for "earth's opinion".
All hail optimus was a pretty critically divisive arc after all, as people didn't like the idea that prime's morality and ideals were so directly tied to him holding the matrix. After optimus lost the matrix at the end of phase 1, he became a lot more flawed as an individual which I personally loved because it led to more interesting character introspection on what it truly takes to be a prime.
TLDR; people won't happy with optimus decapitating galvatron in IDW, arguing otherwise is doing so in bad faith. Bayverse prime is a more realistic take of optimus in the real world. A real war leader wouldn't behave too dissimilar from optimus in these movies so I can 100% appreciate this version for what it is. But he isn't the most ideal take of optimus; in the same way injustice superman isn't the ideal superman for most.
Do I find bayverse prime hyper-violent at times? Yes. Is he my ideal version of optimus? No. Do I think it's an interesting take on the character? Sure. Do I want more of this uber-violent, face-taking rendition of prime now that we're done with the bayverse? Not really. My main issue with this prime is simply his lack of consistency when it comes to his ideals. It borders on hypocritical. "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" until the beings do something to piss him off. It just doesn't sit right with me. If you're going to do this take of optimus, don't use THAT line because it just doesn't fit this rendition of the character.
Im pretty sure that if his "war crimes" where done with a human character people would justify it
I love how ROTB shamelessly ripped-off AOE's Prime arc yet never seem to mention it
Remember it's only a problem when Michael Bay does it but if others does it, no problem at all.
Yep! AOE did it better too in my opinion.
@IAmSleekZ12 Yeah some out there really do seem to give things done similarly to the Bay movies a pass just because it isn't Michael Bay doing it.
38:46 hound literally asks to end "baldy" right here and there twice but prime's reaction is priceless lmao, i wonder why people don't mention that part of optimus
42:50 to be fair the dinobots no matter which continuity (aside from cyberverse) will only listen to the strongest, it isn't a fan theory to think that it's the same for the crew in AOE. In the G1 grimlock outright rebelled against that autobots and helped the decepticons just cuz he saw prime "weak" until prime had to save him from death to prove him wrong, but grimlock and bay prime wasn't put in that easy situation in AOE... Bay optimus simply communicating to grimlock in the only language grimlock knows, and before you say that other grimlock version's aren't relevant here, this grimlock literally screams at prime and attempts to squash him just cuz prime asked him for help.. Nuf said
Don’t forget that when Optimus yells out “I’ll kill you” to the KSI drones, he can actually get away with that because none of those drones are sentient except Galvatron.
@@GalvatronStudiosyour right.there soulless
I literally promised myself this morning that I wouldn't just binge random video essays. Well, guess I lied.
Optimus Prime: *Kills*
Fans: OMG HE’S DISRESPECTING OPTIMUS PRIME
Bumblebee: *Kills Ravage in a brutal way*
Fans: YYYYEEEEEEEESSSS GET HIM BEE
Am I wrong?
Ironhide rip a decepticon in half in WFC, does that count too?
Yep
Sideswipe cuts a decepticons in half
YES
❤😂😂😂😂
I never understood the war criminal argument. It’s like any sort of violence is a war crime to these people. Optimus is fighting a war. Transformers has always been a story about war. Trash talking and saying violent things doesn’t equate to sociopathic behavior or else everyone in a COD lobby is a sociopath/war criminal. This Optimus is very humane as he doesn’t do anything more than necessary to his enemies. I agree that they could of done it more likely Prime where we get to see more of his moral decision making but this Optimus is a soldier through and through. He fights to protect and he a great role model because he has flaws where even he can be pushed to far but still comes back to his noble senses.
It is a freaking dumb argument and doesn't make a whole lot of sense and nor does it hold up under scrutiny.
“Prime is war criminal “ and megatron, the fallen, lockdown, and sentinel were pillars of virtue right?…..sure
I literally saw people trying to say prime was wrong for putting a bullet in sentinel like literally.
Doesn't make any sense lmao
@@Talon_Productions True
Just like People Blaming Superman for everything when Zod is actually the blueprint lmao
@@RydellAggin12”wHy DiDn’T hE jUsT fLy Up Or BlOcK hIs LaZoR eYeZ!?!??”
Superman: I’m LITERALLY do everything in the book and none of them work
“Phantom Zone? Yeah? Ha! I knew you’re edgy! BITCH!”
Superman: Already used, I’m literally spent
Thank you bro. Haters are just too loud. They are trying to make a villain out of this heroic character
@@korruptor9777Watch the video.
I feel like a big reason why people hate the bay verse films (the first 4, not the last one) is that the movies are somewhat dark and the deaths of the robots are more gory and is the complete opposite of the source material. I love the fact that it’s so different from every other transformers content and it’s unique in that way and plus the designs of the robots are also really cool and more “realistic” of how they would actually look like.
I'm sure that plays some sort of part to it. I, too, love how different it is and I feel like Transformers could use more of that lately since so much new stuff feel so same-y.
Even more ironic when you realize that G1 movie did exactly the same thing but with rock music
Another argument that can be made in favor of the fact that Optimus killed Attinger not out of revenge, but purely in order to save Cade, is that Optimus, when he saw them both, anxiously shouted out Cade's name, not Attinger's
For sure!
I don’t care what anyone says but, Big Robot Fight Big Robot go BRRRRRRRRR
I like the bayverse prime btw
I mean hey, can't argue with that!
wwooooooooooo
Overused ahh joke
@@DeedaOnYT ye lol
I've made a similar video like this a couple months back called "Bayverse Optimus Prime is not a psycho", not trying to toot my own horn, mines wasn't the best video but what I wanted say is that, I love that more people like you apprenticed these movies that I grew up on. This video honestly puts a smile on my face because it shows that people like yourself actually have time and effort to put into actually learning about these movies and look a them from a new perspective, instead of being annoying jerks on the internet, as a whole thank you for such a great video.
I think I remember seeing your video pop up in my recommended but I wanted to wait to watch it until I was done with my video so that I wouldn't be influenced by it! Definitely gotta check it out now! I, too, love that more people are saying positive things about these movies. Part of what I wanted to do with this channel was spread positivity about the Bay movies and make a sort of community for Bay fans so it is nice to see! I'm glad that you enjoyed the video, I've been passionate about this for a long time so I'm extremely happy to put it out there. Thank you for watching!
Bay gang
@@Talon_ProductionsThat's certainly very nice of you and despite me having more and more issues with the Bayverse as I think more of these movies and massively disagree with both of your takes on the subject, I definitely relate with the idea of wanting a place for people with hot takes to feel free to express them.
Despite me having already uploaded several comments as responses to what I believe are flawed defenses of Bayverse Prime, I would never want to take anyone's enjoyment of any piece of media away from them.
I wouldn't mind getting responses to them. I believe I know what responses I'll mostly get and I'm expecting to disagree with most of them at least, but this shouldn't discourage you from defending your stance if you so desire.
If you're curious about my overall stance towards Bayverse Prime and the Bayverse in general, I am (or at least hope I am) one of the reasonable dislikers/haters (my more objective critisisms are pretty stable, but my subjective feelings may vary depending on the movie and other factors).
Didnt G1 Optimus ran over Decepticons in top speed and then shot the ones that got ran over?
Also lets not forget that he beat Megatron so badly that he couldnt even move without Soundwave carrying him
Him running over the cons didn’t knock them out of the fight, they aren’t humans, there other giant robots, so him running into them is pretty much like another human running another human at full speed
Megatron was still able to fight Optimus that entire fight, it took Optimus the last of his strength just to take Megatron down, and it didn’t even kill him
@@wsmstudio3329 if we can apply different rules to cybertronians then Bay prime should be called a monster just because he kills his enemies in the most efficient way by dismembering them since it was shown that simple gunshot wounds dont kill them biggest example being Brawl and Shockwave
@@orhandalegend I’m not applying different rules, I’m using human rules on how they would work with giant robots fighting each other.
Like I said, running over a giant metal robot with a truck is going to be like a human raming into another human with they’re body
@@wsmstudio3329 relax im not talking about you spcifically
@@orhandalegendAnd yet those dismemberments are pretty damn lengthy if you ask me.
Also, headshots seem to get the job done just fine in the Bayverse based on what the movies show us, especially since the extended media lore seems to support it as well.
You sure that "dismemberment" is the most efficient way to go about it?
Love it when actual detailed analysis videos on how the war crimes claims are really a stretch are put out
It’s difficult to sneak around liking this iteration of prime…
Yeah nobody should have to sneak around to like this character. The people that dislike this version take it too far.
@@Talon_Productions it went as far as my home address being doxxed-
@@gravitywithoutcontext wait really? what happened?
@@Talon_ProductionsI (mostly) dislike this version of the character, but everyone has the right to like or dislike this and all versions of the character for their own objectove or subjective reasons.
@@gravitywithoutcontextWait, people actually did that? What the hell is wrong with them?
The biggest problem I have with the movies is the Decepticons. NONE of them are focused on enough as characters or given enough screentime to develop their personalities and dynamics between themselves and the Autobots. I understand what the films were going for with them, it's just a creative choice I disagree with on a whole.
Totally fair!
To be fair, neither does G1 if you actually paying attention
I like Bayverse Prime. If you ask me, he's a more realistic take on the character and, if the Bayverse movies had better writing, he would have been in my top 5 versions of Optimus Prime.
on the topic of war crimes, it's probably worth noting that there's a good chance that if those exist in Cybertronian law, they are entire different from how we define war crimes
While there’s a new transformers coming out, I'm glad that people still talk about Michael Bay’s transformers movie despite the hate and criticism it's get. This video is 100x entertaining than Bumblebee and Rise of the beast, I said what I said🤷♂️
I honestly think bayverse Prime is actually the most realistic version of him and, arguably, the best depiction of his character. I love the OG cartoon and that version of Prime will always be my favorite and iconic, but the bayverse Prime is more in line what Prime is relative to his situation: a true pacifist and scholar forced into commanding a brutal war with an overwhelming enemy for millions of years, along the way having to keep his head high as millions of his closest friends and comrades died and his home planet consumed into darkness. That fact that it took his own death to finally snap him is miraculous in itself, and even when Optimus did snap, I never felt like he became some monster, rather he became a true veteran general who was just tired of playing nice. Not to mention that if all of his villains were taken to court, they would instantly get the death sentence for unspeakable war crimes on an otherworldy scale.
I think the people who call him a psycho dont understand or take into account that most people in his shoes would instantly do the exact same thing without thought, if not worse. You try being in the middle of constant bloodshed, war, and betrayals and see if you still are the paragon of virtue like in the cartoon.
This video nails it. I e always considered Bay OP to be G1 OP but liberated from kiddy cartoon restrictions.
You have NO IDEA how much i appreciate this video. Bayverse prime was my first and favourite version of the character and its so nice to see some one seeing that hes not a monster and even if he was its not like its his fault. But of course hes not a monster at all and i see him in these movies as one of the best examples of a hero , despite everything thats happened to him he never fully lost it.
I also really love the fact you acknowledge that megatron didn’t deserve mercy, id like to add the fact that even if megatron wanted a truce he doesnt deserve one hes killed so many people and hurt so many more. Not everyone deserves redemption and i dont think any amount of honesty in megatrons words would make him deserve to be spared.
One more thing i really appreciate the fact you didnt take any time to crap on age of extinction, so many people ive seen hate the film so much which just hurts because it has the best character growth for Optimus i feel out of any of the bay films…. And definitely better then rise of the beasts ( not saying that film is objectively bad i just dont like it that much but i dont have issues with others liking it)
Its also my favourite film , yes it has its problems but i still love the film
I really loved the effort put into this video and i dont comment on videos often but i really just wanted to show my appreciation for this.
Also sorry for making this such a long comment
No apologies necessary for the long comment, I like getting them! I am glad to see that you enjoyed the video. I put a lot of work into it and it is awesome to see responses like this. If it helps, I love AOE so I'm glad to see another fan of it! Can't wait to talk about it in a retrospective video here soon, it is way underrated and over hated.
Thank you again, I appreciate it!
@@Talon_Productions can’t wait to see that then. Theres only two small issues i have with AOE the whole Romeo Juliet laws thing and some of the designs. Im fine with human looking designs but drifts face is a bit weird if you ask me, the others are fine tho. Also i feel Optimus could have used a tiny bit more vehicle parts visible on his design and a bit more blue and red. Other then that i love the knight look he gets.
They just want optimus to be like superman and batman who doesn't kill and try to save even the villain, like damn optimus is supposed to be more of a protector in bayverse lesser of a hero
Batman and Superman has their own flaws doe, they’re not perfect.
Bayverse Optimus is still a hero to look up to
And Batman kills villains too
FINALLY someone gets it.
I NEVER understood why everyone said Optimus in Bayverse was a "psychopath" when hes just doing whats necessary. Like the Decepticons are going on a rampage killing hundreds of thousands if not MILLIONS of innocent people, cant be reasoned with peacefully so Optimus is resorting to what he has to. Sure him saying "you die!/give me your face" sounds a little sadistic but most other then that hes just doing what he has to.
Not to mention Optimus does brutal things in other franchises and nobody ever gives a damn.
Also in the Bayverse anytime Optimus does try to show mercy to his enemies they end up backstabbing him. He tried to do the honorable thing but look what i cost him.
I pretty much agree with everything here! Glad you enjoyed the video too.
I think people like to forget/ignore the fact that war crimes as we understand them don't really apply to the Transfomers. At least with the Bayformers. The Autobots wouldn't nor shouldn't be surprised when or if one of their is captured & tortured, or anything that defines human equivalent to war crimes.
I also want to add. G1 fans will just try to find anything to cry about in the bayfilms to the point it's a dead horse. It's so annoying. If you like the bayfilms and grew up with them, You're "not a real TF fan" like omg shush.
The most annoying bunch "bay ruined transformers" give me a break
Yeah that type of gate keeping is so freaking lame.
Bayverse Prime > ROTB Prime
Agreed!
Forever
Look i love bayverse prime but please don't hate the other some people may like rotb as me.
@@mohammadhossain9608bro we all respect your opinion
Theirs no need to feel uncomfortable
@@Dudeaids78 Bayverse prime is my childhood and i love him and i appreciate rotb prime, i'm just saying just don't spew hate to the opposite.
People who complain about bayverse prime are so annoying. Nobody except G1 fans want Optimus to be this soft ass protag that lets megatron escape every movie.
Bayverse Prime (or rather Optimus Prime in general) is what you get when the kind, silent person in the class who is bullied, starts fighting back (not just for himself, but for the others who are bullied as well). And from most accounts that I've read from regarding how American schools go about punishing the bullied kid instead of the bully, it's not surprising to see where this cognitively challenged mindset comes from. Prime has been my hero and like a father figure since I were a kid. As far as I'm concerned, the Bayverse Decepticons need to be charred and obliterated out of existence. He is being merciful. :/
You made some damn good points. Worthy of a like from me. I especially wanna add on-to your point at 13:04
A huge thing people seem to overlook/forget about The Fallen (until it's convenient) is that he himself is a Prime, and back then the Dynasty of Primes all looked exactly alike. The Fallen's face being the symbol of the Decepticons has a compounded effect of not only being a symbol of oppression and evil, but also ties back to a DIRECT affront to Optimus' own heritage (the Primes being peaceful and valuing life, and The Fallen is the living desecration of the Primes' legacy). To me, the clues were kind of set, but the beginning of the fight where The Fallen and Optimus banter (F:"Die, like your brothers"; OP: "They were YOUR brothers, too") cemented that even though there was ultimately humanity's future at stake, this was PERSONAL for Optimus. Removing The Fallen's face -- while brutal -- serves two purposes: one, it serves as a big "fuck you" to the Decepticon name (like you said), and two, it's Optimus denouncing The Fallen and reclaiming the honor of his ancestry.
About time to see someone stand up for Bayverse prime.
Prime in this universe is an autobot that lost so much…
Witnessed wars and witnessed death a lot of his comrades…
Betrayed by his brother Megatron
Betrayed by mentor Sentinel Prime
And betrayed by humanity itself.
Boy this Prime can’t catch a break.
And the reason he killed that many decepticons in revenge of the fallen and dark of the Moon was because he’s going sick and tired of the amount of collateral damage the decepticons cause and human casualties. And he had every reason to kill every single one of them in dark of the moon because they brutally executed wheeljack.
Because after they executed Wheeljack there’s no denying that these deceptions did those acts before.
Another thing that I think how I view “give me your face” thing was because in Optimus eyes, the fallen doesn’t deserve the prime name and since he looks so much like his brothers, he decided to remove that face.
I think the Main characteristic of Optimus is that during his time is Cybertron I don’t think he learned much Because he spent so much his entire life battling with the decepticons.
Like for example with his talk with Cade of him being done defending humans. Let him know about what was it like us making mistakes,
And how these mistakes can lead to greater things. And also having faith.
And people say he doesn’t have much character and he’s a psycho. Well, they clearly haven’t paying close attention to him.
I feel like the give me your face is like prime giving him a taste of his medicine and was pi$$ed when the fallen was trying to blow up the sun.
It's just context, prime never enjoyed killing, he just needs to do it, killing enemies is apart of war.
Wasn't g1 prime about to execute megatron in the 86 movie before Hotshot showed up...in a similar fashion to Bay Prime killing Sentinel no less. Also with the exception of Grimlock and Demolisher(which could've been fixed by removing dialogue), Prime being violent makes sense considering its mostly aimed towards genocidal/evil bad guys. The Megatron truce ending of dotm is such a dumb ending since he's partially responsible for millions dead...that's not comeuppance.
In my opinion, yes he was! Some will argue that Prime wouldn't have shot Megatron there but I think that he would have. I'm also with you on the DOTM novel / comic ending, it isn't the better ending that many think that it is and doesn't really fit this version of Megatron.
Think of prime as like a solider from Vietnam from Afghanistan or Iraq going through like PTSD lost a lot of friends couldn't do anything about it think of him like that he's that soldier and all the people that you couldn't save on Earth and a Cybertron He's going through rough time so yeah it makes sense for him to be violent and towards like the other later movies for like extinction and last knight
@@Pete_thegoldfox AOE needed better writing and more focus on prime....tlk needed an entire rewrite.
@@cyberneticgeek true
@@cyberneticgeek AOE already focused more on Prime
Michael bay did say he is close to the military, so maybe that's how bv optimus prime was based off of, bay must heard many stories from veterans that's how the impression
And yet Lorenzo also actually said that Optimus' mannerisms were based on action-hero movie star Liam Neeson.
We have actual statenents vs mere possibilities, and I think we both know where your statement lies.
@@vaggos2003 maybe you should just stop talking except the fact that you’re wrong
@@dylanhudec979 1. Wow, you butchered the word "accept". Congratulations. I'm not an English speaker as a mother language and I'm correcting you on something like this.
2. Why should I "accept that I'm wrong"? You gave no counterarguments to prove me wrong, you're just whining because I'm not falling head over heels over a version of Optimus that I don't like. Learn to use actual arguments and accept that not everyone will agree with you.
I also appreciates you don’t come off as snobbish and making fun of the people complaining. You give a valid reason and honest opinion.
you know what no one calls out as a war crime sentinel primes cosmic rust cannon which is essentially a black plague gun poor ironhide witnessed his own body crumble to dust
lmao those who say that Optimus commits war crimes really enjoy the heroes die
People only seem to want to acknowledge that kind of stuff if it is to criticize a hero.
@@Melkorsolostheverse No. In fact, the opposite is actually the case given how the Decepticons are very ruthless in the films, killing humans and without a care for collateral damage in their conquest. Sure the Autobots were brutal in the later films, but are no where near the utter malice and carnage the Decepticons unleashed upon humanity. It says something about you when you enjoy the heroes die in the films despite how often they save the day, all because of the over the top kills Optimus preforms.
I believe Alfred from The Dark Knight once said something that I think can best summarize the Bayverse decepticons
“Some men just want to watch the world burn”
I'd say it is very accurate! All they want to do is either enslave on a planetary scale or commit genocide on a planetary scale.
I might’ve been living under a rock but I didn’t know people hated bayverse prime until recently like the last 2-3 years. It blows my mind cuz as a kid growing up watching the original trilogy I thought this was as good as it gets and it still is
I remember I listed off EVERYTHING Sentinal did before Optimus killed him, and someone still told me Optimus was wrong to kill him. EXCUSE ME?!?!?!?!
Yeah it is ridiculous. I think some people just want to view Optimus as wrong and will ignore anything that says otherwise.
Bayverse haters just hate Optimus without knowing why and ignore EVERYTHING that other characters or Decepticons have done (who have clearly done MUCH WORSE things than Optimus 🤌)
Killing Ironhide was a good enough reason to gank Sentinel from the get go.
@@SUGARSWEET-pz2wx Right. If someone betrays my trust, kills my best friend, commits genocide on a whole city, and tries enslave people, I'd want him to have a fate worse than death. Optimus was being merciful if anything.
@@bookdragon369 It still hurts 13 years later. Ironhide is my favorite Transformer.
THANK GOD someone else gets it
I keep seeing the “joke” that Bayverse Prime is a war criminal, and I’m gonna have to disagree.
Buckle up, cause this is gonna be a long one.
Here’s why the complaint of Bayverse Prime being a war criminal or psychopath doesn’t hold up at all:
1. Demolishor: Literally ran over hundreds if not thousands of people during the Shanghai opening. Actively destroyed a helicopter and flung vehicles off the road. Still attempted to flee even after being injured instead of surrendering.
2. Fallen: Was going to blow up our Sun, killing all life on Earth. Apprehending him would do nothing since he can teleport. Was the OG Decepticon and influenced Megatron to betray his own kind, igniting the civil war.
3. Megatron: Betrayed his own people that led to the decline of his own planet. Killed Optimus in ROTF, and did more heinous crimes that would’ve killed off humanity in multiple occasions.
4. Sentinel: Betrayed the Autobots. Executed Ironhide in a cowardly manner and fled with the Pillars, which were locked up under military jurisdiction. Joined up with the Decepticons to enslave all of humanity. Was going to actually kill Optimus if Megatron didn’t intervene.
5. Attinger: Formed Cemetery Wind and hunted down Autobots. Was actively going to shoot Cade when Prime shot him first. That’s acting in defense.
6. They’re aliens and Prime executed mostly other Cybertronians. Geneva convention doesn’t apply or mean anything to non-humans.
Other than that, Optimus always killed in the heat of battle or when lives were in immediate danger.
You wanna know who the real war criminals are though? Cemetery Wind straight up murdering Ratchet, a medic, begging for his life. Plus, any other Autobots they killed.
Also, people say that “G1 Optimus would never kill!”
That’s missing the point. He’s not G1 Optimus. He’s a more human, relatable, realistic portrayal of Optimus. An Optimus that wasn’t in stasis for millions of years, but fought for all that time. An Optimus who’s suffered countless losses and friends for thousands if not millions of years.
Stuff like that’s bound to make someone crack no matter how noble they are. And Bayverse Prime IS kind and noble. Everyone loves to point out his flaws, but no one ever points out his virtues.
Throughout the Bayfilms Optimus has shown us time and time again that he’s always willing to put his life on the line to protect those he cares about. Sometimes literally using his own body as a shield to protect the human characters. And can we also not ignore that he and his Autobots saved humanity multiple times? Especially in AoE when he was betrayed by the race he swore to protect. He still came through.
He kills. So what? No one was complaining when Beewun Prime brutally massacred a whole squad of seekers in the Cybertron opening. In fact, people loved it. Or ROTB and his bloodlust for Scourge which people seem to say that he had a REASON. Those cognitively impaired people don't seem to have watched the previous films at all because if they did, they'd know that was false. Y’all seem to forget that this is war. Not everything is going to go to plan and ideals aren’t always ideal.
End of the day, you can like or not like Bayverse, but at least try to attempt some actual proper and valid criticisms founded on actual evidence and facts rather than prejudice and bias.
We Bayverse fans KNOW it’s not perfect and has flaws. We know that already. It’s just that we still love it DESPITE that. We just wanna be left alone to enjoy it without haters dog piling on it and us every time it comes up. It’s been more than a decade now.
The haters should move on already. It’s 2024 and they started ever since 2007 and never stopped whining.
Haters will never moved on since they’re still obsessed with their precious outdated 80s cartoon😂
@@TRSleekZ12 align continuity was able to keep his sanity.
I don’t think the core of Optimus’ character is preserved well in the Bayverse. Optimus in the movies is exactly what Larry Cullen and by extension Peter Cullen didn’t want him to be: a gritty action hero. Were all of the villains terrible and deserve what they got? Sure, but Optimus didn’t have to tear off the face of a defeated opponent. I think it’s a tad unnecessary at that point.
If you like this version of Optimus, that’s fine, I respect that. I do think he’s cool, it’s just the Bay movies are what the general public think of Transformers, and I want them to see more of Optimus than what the movies portray.
Lmao Geewuners are a bunch of hypocrites😂
They’ll tell you to move on from the Michael Bay’s Transformers and “Embrace” the newer one for respecting the source material while they’re still stuck in the past obsessed with the cartoon and still talking trash about the Michael Bay’’s film😂
So pathetic😂
@@fegreninja7197 stop talking, please. No one wants a pacifist.
The problem really is that it started as a kids show and the fans of that Optimus just can't seperate the two characters. Bayverse Prime is an adult war hero pushed to the brink.
Exactly. This isn't meant to be the same character as G1 or any other version.
Off topic but remember when Michael Bay got a lot of death threats and hate when Optimis prime was gonna have a flame livery on his truck? Pretty ironic and hypocritical that Transfomers fanboys always complains about Bay’s prime being a “Violent Criminal” when they themselves have been violence since the 2007 movie dropped just because it’s not a copy paste of their outdated 80s cartoon😂
They even forget their own MOTTO, it’s “Robot in DISGUISE”, they want ALL robot to have neon color like in G1
While I hold Aligned Continuity Optimus as the perfect example of what Optimus should be, I definitely enjoy the Bayverse's take on the character. With how brutal and kill-happy the Decepticons are in these movies, someone needs to step up and get shit done, and that's how I see Optimus. He's lost so much already, by Dark of the Moon he had literally died for this war and this planet, he's not taking any chances. And then come Age of Extinction, the humans he swore to protect were hunting him and his family, and he still didn't want revenge.
I see Optimus as the true protagonist of the Bayverse. A gentle bot at heart who's been forced into horrible circumstances and had to make hard decisions, all to be betrayed. Until all that guilt is used to manipulate him in The Last Knight. Maybe I'm reading into that one too much, IDK. I'm curious how his arc would have continued in a sixth Bayverse movie, but at least Rise of the Beasts gave him a somewhat interesting arc.
Out of all the Optimus Primes out there bayverse is the most realistic version
Optimus' character arc and development is one of the main reasons why Age of Extinction is the best Transformers movie for me. I did not at all expect that the day would come when Optimus would lose faith in humanity and would even be ready to leave them at the mercy of Galvatron. Age of Extinction showed Optimus to be an even more complex character that I actually felt sorry for. He could not bear to be stabbed in the back by a race whose freedom he defended and believed in its great potential. He's just tired and now only cares about the Autobots, who have suffered enough from the war and its consequences. But by the end of the film, Optimus proved that he is a truly wonderful and noble person who cannot turn his back on those who need help, and he simply, like all normal persons, needed support in order to gain strength again for further struggle
Lmao I remember back then the criticism for these movie were all “too sexual, too much humor, too much action and explosion, Too much product placement and blah blah blah, too much American propaganda and too much racism and too much blah blah blah blah”
And here we are right now, they’re complaining about a fictional character doing something “heinous” or whatever they called.
It’s crazy that they would rather blamed the main character than the actual villains. It’s almost like the movies reflect on that aswell that they rather blamed the Autobots and kill them all than the deception in the movie.
P.S I know this isn’t related but don’t ever go on Twitter nor Reddit when it comes to meeting with new people on the fandom, too much media illiterates, miserable people and pure hate brain rot.
Yeah it is crazy to me that people seem to give the villains that commit actual heinous acts a pass but not the hero who is doing everything to protect a planet and it's inhabitants.
I avoid Twitter so it is all good!
@@Talon_Productions Exactly! Optimus isn’t really the only protagonist that get all the blame doe.
Especially since this year marks 40 YEARS OF THIS FRANCHISE!!!
*Me cheering for Optimus back in 2011 when he said he will kill them all due to the decepticon being cruel and evil to humanity*
Peter Cullen: That’s not Optimus
Me: *Sad Noises* 😩
Yeah it does kind of suck, but it is just an opinion at the end of the day. I still think the line fits given the context of everything.
I think this is the only line I would change. I would prefer he said "We won't let them destroy another world," but it works in context.
@@thegamingnerd4 I feel like "Megatron must be stopped no matter the cost" but more venomly as it showed Prime is done with Meg's crap and would be a good callback to the 86 film.
Its interesting you mention rotb because when hes fighting scourge at the end, my first thought was "bayverse prime is back". And some counter this with "oh he turned his head away when stabbing scourge bc he doesnt want to kill!!!" But i find it to be easily more forgiven due to "he looks g1!" And i love g1, i love transformers in general, i recognize that g1 is a core part of the franchise and will always be around. But from a design standpoint, i love how fresh bayverse optimus looks. I wish they did something new more often. Keep the core parts of the design (chest windows, head design, wheels on the legs) while not being a rehash of the g1 design
I've never felt that him looking away was him not liking the violence, there is lava flying around, plus he may have been looking at Elena. The thing that ends that argument for me is that he looks Scourge directly in the eyes while stabbing him through the mouth and ripping off his head. He didn't have a problem looking at violence lmao. I'm with you on the Bay design, it is so good.
Tbh without the Live Action Movies the Transformers would have been a dead franchise so G1 Fans if your here you should thank the movies not blame them even I didn't know of Transformers before until I saw T2 and I like it and they should not compare the movies to the cartoon just think of the movies as a different universe it's like they think the movies retcon everything about Transformers but nope they are wrong this it's own universe it's own story and it's own logic and rules and also if this were to happen in irl it's not going to be kid friendly like the cartoon no it will be realistic and u guys need to accept reality that war isn't a good to have in your world obviously so G1 fans u should just thank the movies even though it has flaws it still has alot of good moments and a interesting story and also if it weren't for the movies Transformers Prime would never exist nor other transformer shows or the bumblebee movie but tbh the rise of the beast is not a great movie the action is forgettable and optimus there hates humans literally unlike Bayverse optimus who would defend earth and humanity and he does care even though they killed his friends and betrayed him he would sacrifice himself to protect it more then the Rotb optimus and that's a fact tbh oof lol
The situation in DOTM where Optimus killed Megatron because he had enought also happend in the Unicron l Trilogy.
I mean, Unicron Trilogy Megatron was a Megatron who was evil through and through and enjoyed it. He saw himself as a god over the course of the three shows, culminating in Cybertron when he became Gelvatron.
He was willing to wipe out everything with the black hold, even his most loyal people.
He is basicly a genocidal negalomabiac just like Bayverse Megatron, if not even worse.
So both Optimus Primes (Bayverse and Unicron Trilogy) had enought of their Megatrons and killed them, and both Megatrons are pure evil monsters. And the fans who conplained about the Bayverse ignoring it. 😂
This was no hate against the Unicron Trilogy. I love the Unicron Trilogy. I just wanted to add this to your Optimus comparisions.
I just want to say thank you for the rest of the video.
Bayverse Prime will allways be my favourite version of Optimus.
I mean, Bayverse Optimus is a more REALISTIC approach to him. That’s kinda the aim of the Bayverse as a whole. In my eyes at least anyway.
I'd say it is, or at least it started out that way.
Sentinel showed the world that the Autobots were no better than the Decepticons and were as tribal, if not, more of a violent race than anything. Optimus rewritten the Autobot protocols for good.
I can't make sense of this.
I'm saying Optimus made sure Autobots aren't freaking maniacs anymore
Optimus Prime from the Bayverse is the best version of himself. I have a hard time understanding why some complained about him. He still was/is the great leader that gives us hope and also gives phenomenal speeches. When it comes to his fighting style, he is amazing; i don’t care in the slightest if he is tearing off decepticon jaws or limbs in a very disturbing manor; mainly due to the fact that he has to defend his comrades and the humans. These are the same people who cheer on some of your MCU/ DCEU heros (majority of which are psychos themselves in battle, but always get the job done). So the conclusion is OP from Bayformers= 🐐
I agree with pretty much everything here! This version is unfairly hated.
No, I personally always interpreted the "give me your face" scene as Optimus taking away Fallen's remnants of being a Prime, Primes' likeness because he doesn't deserve to be considered one as he had desecrated their lineage with his crimes and I think that this WAS the idea. As such, I was never sure why people complained about this scene so much as some still do.
I always found that to be a cool take on the scene as well!
Something to note, on the "Freedom is the right of all Sentient Beings." part, then Optimus is exercising his own 'freedom' to take down the decepticons. Is this not enough leeway for you, you biased haters?
I loved Bayverse Optimus Prime the same way I loved Snyderverse / DCEU Superman, it’s sucks that the Elitist, “Film Expert” Gatekeepers, rEaL fAns & so called jOurNaLiSt trashing on my favorite iteration of these two.
I’m glad I found this video, I thought I was so alone on this universe.😂
Snyderverse Superman 🤝 Bayverse Superman = Being a victim of Media Illiterate People on Twitter
Glad that you enjoyed it!
I love bayverse prime so much and its the honor of a lifetime for me to voice him in several fan series and the fan made sequel rise of unicron coming out in the near future. He's complex, hurt, and despite it all a strong refuge for justice in a dark universe.
Unpopular Opinion that nerd don’t want to hear: Our Favorite childhood superheroes has always killed their enemy all the time, these “no kill” rule are so inconsistent and irrelevant. time to grow up and stop treating these characters like complete soft mascot, it’s boring.
#donteverchangemymind
Personally I don’t consider myself a fan of the Bayverse but I am a massive fan of everything that series has done for transformers. I think Bayverse Optimus is a little too aggressive, I prefer if he kills in a more clean way, but I think he added a whole new dimension to Optimus that we’ve been able to enjoy in TF prime and more recently the Skybound comics. So cheers to you Bayverse prime, you may not be MY Optimus but you’re still a great one
Personally, I think Optimus Prime might have been holding back in the first movie, due to fighting in a heavy populated area, while the second films' forest fight, he only had Sam to worry about. And even while he was handing the Decepticons their collective asses, he still was careful and remember to step over the fallen tree, Sam was hiding under.
It's also because he was still conflicted on his feelings about Megatron. He still called Megatron his Brother when he died, so he clearly was still somewhat attached in some way. But as soon as Megatron killed him in ROTF and he came back to life, he realized that Megatron is too much of a threat to hold onto those feelings when he and The Fallen almost destroyed Earth. Then in DOTM, when Megatron sarcastically said he wanted a Truce, and he IMMEDIATELY said "All I wanted was to be back in charge." Then became the Joker to Prime's Batman when he said "Besides, who would you be without me, Prime?" That's the moment Prime completely gave up on Megatron because even after he lost, he STILL was saying he and the Decepticons are continuing the War. So he finally went "Time to find out". But I guess because the scene went so fast, unfortunately most people don't stop and think about what Megatron actually said because all that's ringing through their ears is the "Truce" part.
There are certainly interesting doscussions that can be held about Bayverse Optimus. Certainly more interesting than the mivies that he is in. But both sides on every occassion, whether by ignorance of the Genova Accords or any other military law, ignorance of some details in the movies or even intended manipulation of the discussion, jeep omitting to mention a specific war crime of his. The most heinous of them all.
Bayverse Prime and his Autobots...
...they...
...they...
...they murdered Oreo-bot.
Those bastards.
G1 fans: "Who would you be without me?" Bayverse: "Time to find out."
DAMN THATS A GOOD ONE!
I'm glad I'm not the only one who loves Bayverse Optimus since he's my favorite version of the character
Also will there be a video on why Bayverse Megatron is underrated?
Always nice to see people enjoy this version of the character!
I don't have concrete plans for a video like that at the moment but I'd love to do it!
@@Talon_Productions Is it just hypocrisy that fans are saying Optimus Prime from ROTB is justified in killing Scourge Mortal Kombat style because he killed Bumblebee? And that's ridiculous considering the fact that Bumblebee was resurrected later in the movie lol
Dude, you could be a lawyer 😂 this video is great. Honestly I was getting just as tired as you were about the constant “oOh Bayverse Prime is a WaR cRiMiNaL” and this video, at least for me, finally ended all that unnecessary controversy. The only thing I disagree with for personal opinion, is the fact that I do believe Peter has the rights to say what is and isn’t Op. Yes, there have been other voice actors for Prime, but at least for me, they never felt right. So I agree with him when he said Optimus saying “I’ll kill them all” is ooc, but it was just ONE line out of the entirety of the bayverse films he was talking about. But anyway, great vid 👍
Lol thank you! Glad you liked the video and that you agreed with most of everything. I know my stance on Cullen not being the end-all authority on Optimus likely isn't popular, but hey I'm sticking with it lmao but no worries if you disagree! For me, even if that line could be considered out of character, I still think it fits within the context of the scene and film as a whole. But thank you again, I appreciate the kind words and I am glad you enjoyed it!
I’m just glad there are others out there defending my childhood Optimus. People would always say how he’s a murder and sycophantic character. But when you really pay attention and observe what he has been through he’s just tired and broken. It is easy for most of us to sit and judge his actions while Optimus is making tough choices and decisions not just for our planet but for his loved ones. Thank you for this amazing video❤️❤️❤️👍👍👍
Thank you for the kind words, I truly appreciate it!
@@Talon_Productions No no man, Thank you. You saved my childhood👍 for that I am forever grateful🙏
“When war comes to your doorstep, your morality and your code will not be here with you”
Dark of the moon would not have been a good ending to the series. Its a great film but it ends abruptly without any real resolution as to what's supposed to happen now.
Thats why age of extinction is the perfect sequel
That makes sense I guess but age of extinction as a film seems like a downgrade even if it does continue on dark of the moon because it "ends abruptly". I've definitely seen more people say it's worse than dark of the moon but if you enjoy age of extinction then that's fine.
I kinda like age of extinction but definitely not for plot reasons.
@@THGMR-ox7sd the plot was great. It focused on the bots, did a lot of new things and made it feel like there's actually a wider universe out there beyond earth and just cybertron.
For the Shockwave part Ik that the comics aren’t canon but hear me out: the reason Optimus killed him THAT brutally because Shockwave killed Elita-1 aka Primes Gf/Wife whatever is your headcanon, so Optimus kills him out of anger
And then she came back as a connected clone of Arcee, but has her own body.
Things got confusing in the comics. Good times.
Not a bad point, I just tried to keep things more so on what is shown in the films than bring any outside material in. I do love the IDW comics though, they add so much to the movies!
@SourRobo8364 that was actually before she was killed by Shockwave in Rising Storm. In Rising Storm, Shockwave kills Elita just before the events of DOTM.
@@Talon_Productions Hey Talon Production have you seen blotzwave defenese on bayverse shockwave and how he was not wasted?
Unpopular Opinion: I’m never bothered by Optimus Prime’s Killing in these movies tbh
There's also another thing I noticed in Age of Extinction Optimus struggles to live by the words he spoke in Dark of The Moon about not forsaking Earth or their faith in humanity and you can't blame him. Because even after defending them from the Deceptions in Chicago they are hunting down his brethren and using their bodies to make there own soldiers and unknowingly revived Megatron in the form of Galvatron all out of profit and Arrogance.
You can't not feel for him in this struggle.
Oh for sure! I always found that interesting how DOTM ends that way and then 5 years later he is ready to abandon humanity. It is valid though, given everything going on. I just think it is awesome that, despite everything, he still came to humanity's aid in the end.
Honestly I'm surprised that my favorite franchise franchise that I grew up with is content nowadays despite it was being criticized and slandered by geewuner elitist, film bros and bloggers for not being "cArtOoN aCCuRaTE". Keep going bro, these kind of contents made me cry watching knowing how much I suffered being bullied from the toxic transformers fandom just because I enjoyed these Michael Bay's movies.😭😭
Prime is no murderer, Prime is a soldier.
One more thing bro, Optimus did keep his word about giving the dinobots freedom in age of extinction he tells there free after the final battle
Very true!
And he called them brave warriors
This kind of video restored my faith on the transformers fandom, you sir got my respect
Wow thank you, I appreciate that!
Optimus isnt a Psychopath the real Psychopaths are the Decepticons they murdered so many innocent people and the critics thinks its ok that Optimus should let them live after they want they done Optimus is protecting humanity even though its brutal it make sense people should stop comparing Bayverse with Og Transformers when its a cartoon and this is a seperated live action universe and imagine what if cybertronians enter our world irl do u think it will be easy no it will be brutal realisticly like the movies themselves bayverse optimus prime even though he fights brurally it doesnt mean he is a psychopath literally
Agreed!
@@Talon_Productions And the real real psychopaths are the critics or the g1 fans they really really love seeing decepticons killing innocent people and blaming it on optimus and they want optimus to let the decepticons who murdered so many innocent people to be scout free from there crimes immediately then be killed by him aka those guys who blamed optimus are the really true psychopaths in my opinion oof lol optimus is saving our humanity lives and people think because he brutally kill the decepticons they will just call them a psychopath when they dont know what a real psychopath is a Psychopath would torture or kill people without remorse but optimus is not torturing people and he kills them off from there misery in order to save his friends or humanity itself if it werent for him bayverse humanity would be destroyed so yeah the real psychopaths are the ones who blames optimus when he is saving our earthling selves here
Is it wrong that I keep watching this? Idk why but this kind of videos calm me down whenever my blood boiled after I'm arguing with people who keep repeating the same arguement😂
Nothing wrong with that! I am glad that something of mine can help out like that.
@@Talon_Productionsyour video inspires me to do make discussion like this, maybe one day in the future🤞
The whole thing with Cybertronions being different beings than humans and them being able to survive and dish out more(so in turn “war crimes” aren’t really crimes) is so true and I have been saying this for years.
The thing about Bayverse Prime is that his violence makes sense when you read between the lines. He held back against Megatron in 07 because he still had some emotional attachment to his brother. Hell, he isn’t even a psychopath once in 07, because A) Bonecrusher killed a lot of people on the highway for no reason and B) Optimus only decapitates him after Bonecrusher instigated the fight by tackling Prime off the bridge. No over-the-top death sequence. Just a quick and efficient way to get rid of a threat to himself and the humans around him.
In ROTF, Optimus still holds back. It’s only when Megatron and his goons clearly show that they won’t leave without Sam, that Optimus goes berserk, because not only would he have lost Sam otherwise, he’d also end up losing humanity and the planet he called home. Keep in mind, only two years have passed since he thought Megatron was gone for good, which in Cybertronian time, means like 2 days. Of course he was gonna be a little more than unhappy to see Megatron again, back to his old Megatron ways of trying to destroy/take over the planet, this time with the help of the Fallen. Even then, Optimus let Megatron go at the end of ROTF. Speaking of the Fallen, he tried to destroy a sun. He really had it coming.
In Dark of the Moon, Sentinel and Megatron literally started a Deception invasion. Thousands died and Optimus definitely had some mental cracks forming after his own mentor betrayed him and killed Ironhide, one of his closest friends. He was right to shoot Sentinel in the head, and while people still debate about if Optimus was justified in killing Megatron despite Megs offering a truce, I personally take Prime’s side there. If Prime had offed Megatron at the end of ROTF, Sentinel’s plan would’ve either taken a jog to the left which would’ve allowed the Autobots more time to catch on to Sentinel’s schemes, or his plan would’ve failed entirely since the Decepticons would’ve never really obeyed him like they did with Megatron.
Age of Extinction, it’s pretty understandable that Prime is fed up with everyone’s BS, so much so, that he kills a human just to protect one of his human friends, and since Sam died likely to Cemetery Wind, Optimus had yet another chip on his shoulder. I’m not even gonna bother with the TLK.
You see, Bayverse Prime is when a good person has had enough of people not changing whenever they were given chances to. The issue here is that, the writing doesn’t really focus on that aspect of Optimus as a broken war veteran. Instead, he gets treated like a spectacle for every kill he gets, and none of his own team mates think twice about their leader’s brutality. It’s a shame too, because had the Bayverse actually had better cohesive writing, we could’ve had a Transformers equivalent of Injustice Superman. Sorry for the long paragraph, I’m just sick of people hating on Bayverse Prime mindlessly.
"and none of his own team mates think twice about their leader’s brutality."
I'm sure the Autobots are just as violent as Bayverse Prime
Great points, finally someone puts everthing into perspective, Bayverse prime will forever be my Prime
Mine too! Glad that I could help provide something that sort of helps set everything straight with Bayverse Prime.