The reason why the military and battle scenes in the movies actually felt like real military scenes and the soldiers felt and acted like soldiers is, because all of them except the main actors (Duhamel, Gibson, Morshower, etc.) were. Bay's only real direction for the military extras was to "react to this attack as how you would in real life", and being actual soldiers, airmen, sailors, marines, whatever, I think they did a pretty good job of that. The Transformers movies are _military_ sci-fi action/disaster movies, so it's gonna actually feel like an actual, real war is happening, opposed to G1 and BBM being mostly "robot superhero" entries.
Watching all the BTS for TF1 was really interesting in that regard. You see a lot of the training an prep work that Bay and the actors went through to try and make the military element of that film more authentic.
@@ViriSFM Absolutely, my favorite scene is the Scorponok chase, since the making of that scene involved the team setting up a bunch of explosives, giving the actors one direction: "run like hell and do not stop", and capturing their genuine terror and surprise as they ran.
How the Bayverse pulled off TF into becoming an action movie, sci-fi movie, military movie, disaster movie, robot and alien and glorified car commerical movie all in one, is just outright ridiculous but they somehow pulled it off
@@ViriSFM. Saw one joe vid say;"it's weird that Michael Bay directed transformers, not joe, considering that franchise was practically made for him".
@@spongeboymebob771 So explain borderline EVERY TF show, game and comic having action sequences having focus on the robots themselves and not acting like a military ad?. This is transformers, not a disaster franchise. Fans want to see war between alien robots, not war between humans and aliens. There's plenty of other movies that do that. Transformers isn't just that alone.
That's what you get when you let a franchise have like hundreds of deviations or "sub-series/continuities" not that it was a bad thing, but it's bound to happen, the G1 vs non-G1 comforming camp should've known this by now
@BamiAndCheese bro, not even foc is good. War for cybertron is better, the mp the campaign lasts longer im sorry if you think foc is good ik its your opinion I can just counter it with a uno reverse card
In my opinion, the Bey verse's main issue was how it treated the plot. The designs were pretty okay (except TLK Prime and Blackout kicks ass) and the characters were interesting takes but the plot was just a mess. Every movie resets when the Autobots and Decepticons arrived. If you disagree, you are probably right cause I'm just some idiot on the internet.
Well hey, I’m also just some guy on the internet - I just happen to have a microphone and editing software. I would agree though, the writing is what I’m primarily concerned about. I’m worried the community is more lenient with anything that looks like G1 / Beast Wars, which often lets more sketchy writing slip by
@@BIGBRITISHBLOKE the only "Optimus" in that design is the head , colors and the smoke stacks on his back. All that is just tacked onto a generic robot knight that DOES NOT TRANSFORM INTO A TRUCK.
Yeah, even as a massive Bay fan I'm not gonna straight up deny the story can get messy sometimes (in my defense, I don't actually care about story as long as I can see giant robots punch each other), but imho part of the fun of the movies is using what you're given to fill in the blanks the points between (and before) the movies. I think the prequel comics do a pretty good job of explaining things like life on Cybertron, the war's beginning and exactly who, when and how they arrived to Earth. While the first movie prequel comic is neat, it was written back when we had zero context for the past aside from some fleeting remarks and expo. So I prefer Defiance and Foundation, since they kind of work together in a way and Foundation really feels like a continuation of the Defiance story rather than like how Defiance basically rewrote what happened in the Movie 1 Prequel. That's kinda how I go about it myself, finding explanations for "how things got this way" and making up the rest as I go along. I'm the furthest thing possible from a writer, so I have no right to criticize or claim my own take is better or correct, but it works for me and makes everything make sense to me personally, and that's really all I care about.
13:42 honestly the fact you mention the oddness of where the 3 flyers went and why they weren't doing anything to the escaping pods around them is made even more hilarious when you rewatch the scene and realize that Starscream is one of the flyers.
I'm sure this stuff is ridiculously expensive for each second, which is why we probably won't get a whole movie of it like lots of people have been wanting
It's not even just that. A lot of statements from behind the scenes imply that the Cybertron opening was a very late stage addition to the point that it was likely even last minute.
@@LibraKai yeah, the scene wasn’t the original opening. It originally started with bumblebee right after he crash landed and was hiding. I think the clip is on UA-cam
7:12 another example that instantly came to mind was the bonecrusher fight and the decepticon encroachment on the highway from 2007. The only lines of dialogue in that scene are from the human characters, and yet we see the autobots respond and counter the looming threat behind them. Bumblebee stays in front of the convoy, given that he has such precious cargo, while ratchet and ironhide shift in front of optimus, who sets himself up to tank any potential confrontation from behind the group. Fast forward later, prime goes out his way to send his opponent off the main Freeway, instead fighting him down below where there is less in the line of fire. The decepticon is dispatched cleanly and efficiently, and prime checks his surroundings in the event any other decepticons were tailing him. It's very subtle stuff but makes that fight so much more interesting to watch, and makes the characters look much more competent as warriors than the BB opening or even the later bay movies themselves.
Very true - I think people can underestimate how much character you can convey through action scenes. Little details like you mentioned can go a long way to characterizing people without any dialogue
the whole claim to "resemble designs to original counterparts for people who loved them for what they are to begin with" implies a large majority of transformers movie-goers are original fans. A large majority of transformers movie-goers are not original fans, it sure has a loud internet voice but most of the box office consists of first-exposures and casual movie audiences. Making a film to reference things esoteric to a fanbase rather than properly introducing which character does what without previous knowledge isn't good.
Yeah so designs intrinsic to a character are hardly "esoteric". Typical Hollywood groupthink to spurn the people who financially supported the I.P. large and long enough to get it to the point of getting a live action movie made. It's worked out well.
@@burntvirtue. Dude, the transformers fandom dwindled considerably since the original ended, the only people who stuck around got older, but not enough for that. Once the live action movie arrived, playing towards the casuals paid off, many additions they made become integrated with newer continuities like the allspark,some characters who become nothing but placeholder names get into the top again(ironhide),and the movie made many new fans, myself included. Seriously, knew nothing about transformers before that movie!
It’s kind of funny how many TF references the 2007 film has when you go back to it. You can tell that fans enjoyed working on it and adding little nods. It’s more subtle and digestible than the entire opening scene of Bumblebee because they kept a general audience in mind and don’t throw it in your face, which is something that this scene does to a fault.
Watching the BTS documentaries for TF1 really does show how many people were huge fans and excited to work on it. Especially hearing the writers talk about their thought process behind certain decisions is interesting
@@Grimm196 Well, i am no expert on transfomers media,( i am just now discovering the franchise ), but in the ending of the first movie, optimus says "like with us there's more then meet the eye" or something like that, and i think it's referencing the first arc of the g1 show where they introduce the characters.
@@Grimm196 There's a shop in Mission City called "Takara Sushi" which is an obvious nod "Takara Tomy", the original toy makers of the Transformers from Japan.
Honestly, I prefer the TF3 opening too. Granted I loved the close up visuals of the Bumblebee Movie opening, there was more visual story telling present in the opening of TF3, I often found myself slowing down and looking at each of the tiny robots as a kid watching how the fights are unfolding and how exactly are the autobots losing. In the TF3 opening you can clearly see the divide between the autobot and decepticon forces, you see the autobots resort to desperate tactics (destroying the platform unfer that cat walker thing) while the decepticons were just upfront and plowing through them without worry.
They both have their ups and downs. There is something about the TF3 opening that feels more 'epic'. Probably because of Peter Cullen's narration, but it also does tell a decent little story that expands more on Cybertron's history. BB's opening is more personal though while TF3 feels a detached from the characters.
@@EtherialBoy I thought about making a TF One video, but I want to wait and see how it turns out. The trailer didn't really sell me on it, and I'm worried it's going down the MCU hole of not taking anything seriously and undermining itself with unfunny quips. It seems far more kiddy than I expected, but so long as it's a decent film I won't mind if it "isn't for me". I don't want to write it off since trailers don't always reflect the final product, so I'm going to reserve judgement until then.
Bay Ironhide should be the canon design because it's so damn good. Same for Sentinel and Bumblebee Yeah, I'm biased, but i don't care, i need to see them again
I mean.... The Bumblebee head is basically movie canon. Sentinel could get a head change, not a big fan of the weird beard he has going on. Ironhide is alright. As long as you don't say we need Bay's Wheeljack, I'm fine with what you think.
When people keep stating that G1 is the golden standard for transformers and anything that deviates from it is an absolute atrocity, just irritates me. It often feels like they're not allowed to have their own original ideas. I hate that because it pretty much prevents any new and possibly interesting stories to be told.
I think ROTB Arcee was a vast improvement over the Bumblebee movie version. That movie doesn't get enough credit for how realized the autobots are both in terms of design as well as personality.
As much as that movie relies on Beast Wars imagery in lieu of G1, I do agree that Arcee and Mirage are pretty solid examples of using a healthy amount of G1 influence to update a character's design
@@ViriSFMThat's what I prefer than just straight us using G1 designs. Hell Bumblebee does kinda have his G1 head shape and his design fits his name more
@@alobaymar The ROTF Arcee designs were definitely underrated, they were not perfect by any means, but I am getting tired of designs simply being just a female silhouette. (Although TFP Arcee looked really cool imo.
I'm happy for this video because I know there's problem in the opening scene. But we're all blinded by nostalgia as to why it's actually bad. I remember back on 2018 how I was so happy to be able to recognise every characters. But at the same time, it's not entirely good either. I only realised this because I became fed up with the G1 designs being overused. But I can't use that as to why the scene is bad. Because that's just a me problem. Me being fed up with those designs. It's actually something else as to why it's not the best scene. And to add insult, those characters were background fodders and not main characters. I'm done hearing people say Bumblebee Movie is a good Transformers movie when it's not even a Transformers Movie to begin with as Bumblebee is the only character that's entirely focused on and the Decepticons that are the main antagonists don't get name dropped as if they don't matter. Bumblebee Movie is just a heartfelt giant robot bonding with a human type of story but used Transformers as the IP.
I agree with the first half but would push back on the second. I understand the “not a transformers movie” argument since it comes up a lot in other circles (looking at Spider-Man,) but I think Bumblebee is one of the better Transformer stories. Despite my thoughts on the opening, I still think the movie is pretty solid and a good addition to the franchise. I’d probably have to do a whole video on this topic alone, but I get where you’re coming from and it’s a discussion worth having.
Tfp Arcee is 100% the best Arcee, everything about her is perfect from the her design, her voice, her history, her character development and most importantly her personality, the G1 Arcee however was boring and bland, she had barely any personality at all and her design was basically a robot Princess Leia but pink. This is just my opinion and I respect others but I just like prime Arcee the best, I find other Arcee versions interesting as well but for me the G1 version sucks.
Oh yeah, TFP Arcee is easily be best. I think the fact she’s such a good and beloved character despite not resembling her G1 variant in any way (aesthetics AND writing) just goes to show that you can easily mold a character into something new and fresh
I see where you’re coming from, but I personally thought her personality was a little bit bland. Love tfp, but I feel people mis-remember her as more witty and sarcastic. When in reality she is a drag who pulls a smirk every once in a while.
@@MCS_Mr.Malice I would be curious to revisit TFP again and analyze it more closely. I'm sure it doesn't hold up as well as when I first watched it, but whenever I go back and watch a scene or episode, I think a lot of it is good. I do still hold Arcee in high regards, but maybe my opinions would change
I did rewatch prime recently, still loved most of it. But I realized stuff I didn’t before. Like how for the majority of the show there’s no plot. There’s the relic hunt and the entirety of season3. Again still a good show but kinda funny.
I think Bumblebee could’ve gotten its own graphic novel that explains in a different perspective as a feature long meanwhile, like Hoowdinked. It should explain what’s going on, how Optimus Prime survived and escaped Cybertron, while adding individual character stories of which planet they arrived in, and trying to survive and stay incognito as other alien machinery, if possible. If not, then, they need to blend in Predator style.
@@ViriSFM Hey, it works very well with Bayverse prequels/midquels. We should have some cool adventures with the other Autobots who are not JUST G1-inspired.
They could've made a show. Having an amazing Episode with Cliffjumper so his death is even worse to normal fans and not just us TF fans who dont want to see him die every iteration
The moment i realized the opinion of the bee movie and rotb fans is not factual is when they were fine with prime murdered Scourge, but when bay prime does it is wrong.
I was a bit confused with the fan reaction to Prime in that movie. He brutalizes Scourge and quips to Primal about stealing his kill on Battletrap, the later of which I don't even think Bay Prime would have done. I'm alright having a more violent Prime, but I don't get why RotB didn't catch the same flak.
@@B-SybrZaku-ThendHaloAirsofting not really?? I've seen many people express that they didn't like Bay Prime being violent while excusing the same amount of violence from ROTB Prime.
@@B-SybrZaku-ThendHaloAirsofting well yes that's true though I'm saying that the general voice I heard from this movie movie was that brutal Prime was good here but bad in the Bay Films when the brutality is very equal
I honestly feel like dotm had the best final battle. The movie did a great job displaying the sense of defeat and danger. Which was further displayed when Optimus and the autobots had to hide out and stay out of site. Optimus was also being more of a war general in this film. Giving out call outs, and asking for divergences so that he could retrieve his flight tech. This also did a great job with incorporating the military into their battle strategy as well. All this made added to the final battle which is why scenes like Optimuses rage, and the charge to the pillar with the military, bumble bee, and ratchet are more then just them going out and just doing whatever its more of them seeing an opening and taking advantage. Which lead to a great pay off when the battle was won sams storyline coming to an end and prime giving his speech.
I have praises and criticisms of that battle but it really does feel like Bayformers' climax. If there was no AoE and TLK, the battle of chicago would have been a solid send off for Michael Bay's tenure with a long, bombastic, all-out battle sequence (another reason I think it should have stopped at DotM)
I love that everyone hating bubmlebee says "oh you like this movieonly for opening scene exists" when I first watched this movie I knew very little about transformers and I only saw one episode of g1 so i only knew who optimus was shockwave soundwave and starscream and still after watching it I decided that it and Bey's first movie was the best transformers live action movies
I would need to think on whether or not BB or TF1 is the best live action film - I lean towards BB, but the more I look at TF1 the more I find to appreciate
Exactly. I wish they had stayed with the bumblebee opening designs just because they looked nice. I love the bay films but I want more color on my bots
As a casual TF fan, the opening felt more like appeasing the majority who hated the bay films. Appeasing the mainly G1 fans with well, the G1 designs. Something that people kept complaining about were those bayverse designs.This film was just as forgettable as AOE and TLK due how this scene really carried this film. I'm not saying that we shouldn't have G1 things nor a scene on cybertron. It technically was nice to see it but then again, we just SEE IT, we don't process anything except haha funi blocky robots fighting. The fans are to me, split between "we want g1 stuff" vs "we're getting bored of G1 stuff"
You should tackle more of Comodin Cam's videos, his channel is arguably one of the best Transformers content available here! His recent Transformers ONE discussions and his many design tier lists are amazing!
I'd be happy to - I hadn't seen any of his stuff prior to this but he seems like a good guy. He is very good faith and has some good ideas, I just wish he would expand more on his points. This is an older video though, so maybe he's changes it up a bit
I agree with pretty much everything here! I love the BBM opening scene but I feel like it has reached a point of being praised for all the wrong reasons and has been put on a pdestal that it quite frankly doesn't deserve. It is a great scene, but the main draw is "Look at the G1!" and it kinda sucks that so many were caught by such key jangling.The references and some of the designs are cool, I just wish there was more for it to truly deserve the hype that it gets. What exactly is going on besides the basic "Decepticons are winning"? Like I don't need something complex but you can't say much is going besides "Autobots are losing and need to evacuate". Honestly, I've always preferred DOTM's opening speech. The music is fantastic, I love Prime's speech, and there are a lot of cool shots in there like the missiles flying up to the Ark in that wideshot. Another thing too is how some people out there talk about this scene. It really isn't the best thing done in live-action Transformers and all anyone ever mentions are the designs. Again, it is that key jangling. It is just so surface level, I don't care if people love it and have it as their favorite scene, I just wish hyperbole surrounding it was lessened. Awesome video here, this was a really good look at BBM Cybertron scene and the discussions around it!
I felt like the opening sequence in Bumblebee, was a bit overrated and it completely overshadowed the whole movie. WheneverTransformers fans talk about the best film of the franchise, they don’t talk about Bee and Charlie’s relationship, Shatter and Dropkick being good villains, or even the hard work Travis Knight and the team put in. The fans only care about, are the Cybertron scenes. Yes it’s G1 and nostalgia, but we had too much G1 right now.
My thoughts exactly - I don't hate the Cybertron sequence, I just think it gets may more praise than it deserves for having G1 nostalgia, which ends up overshadowing the rest of the movie.
That's not entirely true. I love Bumblebee for the story it told and how for once they made a human character compelling. Sure tye Cybertron scene still looks amazing, but the movie itself is what I really love. For once the Decepticons actually had personalities and felt like real characters instead of just mindless killing machines. So no, Transformers fans don't only care about the opening of the film. And I don't appreciate how you're putting every single one of then into that bracket instead of generalizing it.
AND not to mention, these fans have grown sick and tired of the human element of the movies (while simultaneously refusing to accept that such a film without live actors is physically and fiscally impossible without an insane amount of cut corners), that all they want now is a purified Cybertron focused movie with absolutely zero reference to humanity or Earth. I blame the Cybertron games, as much as I do enjoy them, they've instilled this really weird viewpoint in people. Now they just want "the Cybertron movie", not even realizing it takes away from the entire premise of Transformers. While I understand their gripe sometimes, it gets ridiculous at times.
The Bumblebee movie designs are great but we need more unique designs especially this days since G1 designs are all over the place. That's why i really like Some of the bayverse design and the Rotb design. Rotb Mirage still resembles the original but it has a very unique design. Same goes with the Rotb Maximals They resemble their original counterpart but while having a unique design.
If anything, '07 pretty much solidified every new Barricade conception as the corrupt police bot, it was easy for Barricade since he was brought into the spotlight after obscurity, the other already popular transformers have a hard time deviating from their G1 build, Starscream's dorito is atrocious but it was unique to Bayverse and that stands out compared to other Starscreams
I think the Rise of the Beasts opening is much better. First off, it establishes all you need to know before diving into the rest of the film with a monologue reminiscent of the Bay films openings (which is a cool reference and helps tie it in to other live action Transformers movies thematically): Who the Maximals are and where they came from, what the Transwarp key is, who Scourge and Unicron are and what they want (I don't believe it says why Unicron wants it but it says that later in the film), it shows why Scourge goes to Earth, it shows off how strong Scourge is and the god-like power of Unicron. Secondly, it is pretty. The mix of a jungle and tech is a really cool visual, gives off the impression that this is a world where animal Transformers might live. It could also be environmental storytelling by establishing that the Maximals terraformed the world as the tech would indicate, but I don't think this is really hinted at so I doesn't count. Thirdly, an awesome action scene. Scourge is pretty intimidating, walking in the dark with that ominous music playing while his red eyes glow in the shadows. And Apelinq! A cool inclusion of an obscure character. A short but neat battle scene follows, which again, shows off Scourge's combat skill and power.
Personally, I've never been fan of the G1 designs. I was born in 2000, so I pretty much grew up with the Bay movies, as a kid, I was in awe. But now today as an artist(comics and 2D animation), looking back at the Bay designs, my opinion is that they're way too complicated. For me, the best designs ever drawn were made by Don Figueroa in the 2012 IDW run of The Transformers. Don had the perfect blend of the G1 aesthetic mixed with Gundam and the Bay designs. To this day, I really don't understand WHY they don't use his designs for the movies because they follow the "keep it simple stupid" approach.
As someone who has attempted to draw Bay's designs, I feel the overcomplicated argument. I can appreciate we have that style in the franchise though. IDW does have some really solid designs - I need to explore the comics more, but from what I've seen, the art is consistently top notch
Something cool I noticed about Bayverse designs is that if you put them in an animated style like TF Prime or TF Animated they actually look really nice. Then I realized that these designs would have worked perfectly in an animation more than in a film
@@dagon1523 a not really, they more so redesigned the WFC models than Bayverse designs. Which makes sense because TFP is a direct sequel to the the WFC games, it's really noticeable with Optimus' design, his wheel placement, his shoulder pads and all
I totally understand that point and think there's merit to it. I can appreciate how Optimus has fairly consistent elements across all his iterations. Personally I am more willing to explore new designs since it has worked out well in cases like TFP Arcee or Blitzwing in BB. A lot of the time though Transformers seems to use names merely as a label to legitimize what is essentially a new character. Maybe I need to do a whole video on this topic alone since there's a lot to unpack. The main point in relation to this video is that I want to avoid the "it's good because it's G1" argument.
@@ViriSFM One of my problems with the Bay movies is the fact that all the Transformers have colorful designs that help distinguish each character. That's why the big confusion of who was the flyer Bee killed in the Beginning of Bumblebee started. Cause they were in Starscreams colors. But for Bay's movies. If your not an Autobot your just a shades of grays, And this works well for cannon fodder. But not Big names like Shockwave or Starscream
This is some peak ragebait I've seen (I didnt got raged but many others for sure) I give it 10/10 and besides you had your points that not every other has
Yeah, I definitely agree with you man. While I enjoyed Bumblebee, there are so many things I would praise than just the Cybertron scene, like the main human character Charlie Waston, the comedy, the acting, character development for some characters, the writing of story and characters and a lot more. Oh and I hope you don't mind about this, there is another problem that should be pointed out is that some TF fans(mostly older fans) have this weird and weak mentality when it comes to the transformers franchise, it can even be said towards a lot of franchises meant primarily for kids and families(more accurately for all ages) and I think it's best to call it out. Some fans keep demanding that the transformers franchise's tone should be very "mature, dark and gritty", and that the primary target audience should be solely for teenagers and adults, stop appealing towards kids forever... because they actually think it will automatically make transformers, great, well-written and successful. But to be honest, it does not. It's so misguided on what makes a piece of entertainment media great and successful in general. And because the Transformers franchise has always been and will continue to be a franchise primarily for kids and families aka all ages and that is not even bad. It's been doing so well with that kind of target audience. All mainline Transformers cartoons like Transformers Prime, Animated, etc. are made for kids as the main target audience, they were all rated TV-Y7-FV, they aired on kids tv networks. Those shows were sellings toys to kids. They were all great kids/family shows and great transformers shows, they were not only successful and praised by younger audience, but also praised by teens and adults who were long time fans of transformers. So let's be real, Hasbro Studios, Takara Tomy and Paramount would never abandon audiences under the age of 13, there is no logically reason on why they should when it comes to transformers. And just because something is mature or dark, does not automatically mean it's actually makes it so great or very "smart". Especially when there are poorly received tv shows and movies that are meant to be mature and dark, ones that are targeted at a more mature older audience like Netflix Transformers WFC Trilogy, Fantastic Four 2015, Suicide Squad 2016 and some of zack snyder's movies like batman v superman and rebel moon. Those were poorly received, not because of it's intended audience, not necessary because of it's tone or TV/Movie rating(weather it's rated R, PG 13 or TV MA), but because of the people behind those works, they had bad writting of stories, characters, scripts, bad pacing, poor direction, poor acting and just lack of creativity, passion and originality. The thing is I'm trying to make is that what makes a movie or tv show or any franchises great/successful is never the tone, it's never the target audience or the ratings, they do not define the quality of its content, it's the people behind their works if they are very talented and are passionate about their works. Disclaimer: This is not me trying attack or change anyone's opinions and personal thoughts. I know that we all have our own opinions and it's always ok to agree or disagree with each other. I respect everyone's opinions no matter how different they are. This just something that I just noticed on a lot of franchises that mainly targets at kids and families. I mean have you seen a lot of posts on TFW2005 and reddit, they are so against each other's throats about this whole fun and lighthearted vs mature and dark in a lot of movie, cartoon and video game franchises.
I do want to avoid that trap of saying "it should be dark / gritty because I'm an adult now and that stuff is for adults". I agree we should be more focused on quality in general rather than tone, especially since the franchise originated as light hearted and campy, and has largely remained as such. There are tons of great examples of good kids' content that appeals to adults - name pretty much any movie from the Disney / Pixar golden age. Being for kids does not exclude something from good stories and characters. I think the Netflix War for Cybertron series is a prime example of trying to be edgy and mature gone wrong. On the other side, I do think Transformers as a franchise should still acknowledge that there is a large and passionate fan base that has grown up and craves more mature stories as well. By no means are they obligated to pivot towards adult content, but it is something to take into consideration. When iCarly rebooted for instance, they knew that the kid who grew up with the show were adults now, and changed their tone to match. It's an interesting dilemma, but ultimately I'm happy either way so long as we get quality media out of it.
Nice to see someone not give Bumblebee a tongue bath for its G1 sequence. It's a cool sequence, but it's like Star Wars: Rogue One. It plays out like a decent fan film, not a good story.
That was really my main issue with rise of the beasts that it didn't follow the story that bumblebee set up. Edit: most of the characters in rise of the beast or just kind of there as well. Where at least in bumblebee like for example shatter and dropkick you at least get to see their personalities
RotB felt like it wanted to do it's own story and be detached from BB. It's a very odd sequel that you could be forgiven for thinking is another soft reboot.
@@ViriSFM I remember readding somewhere that steven said he did not want to do a sequel but that was after i saw it and was dissaponted. One of the inconsitencys I hate the most is when arcee tells bumblebee "we cant just go in and take it bee, the humans will hunt us down." who ever wrote that scene in did not even watch the last film, where in the beginning of the film whe wast hunted by S7 and even had a harpoon shot in his collar. I think what steven meant by its a reboot is its not a soft reboot from prior films and bumblebee but instead its a full reboot. then why use a bastardized version of prime and bumblebees models instead of making a new one IDK. I mean you had $200M. I was disaponted beacuse it wasn't what I was expecting. But besides that as a standalone film id put rotb in 4.
The cybertron scene has no backstory,barely any context as to why they’re fighting this is the greatest example of thinking nostalgia is good writing on its own the cybertron battle in transformers 3 blows this out of the park we know what is happening and why it’s happening but with the bumblebee movie we have to use head canon
Sure, Michael Bay wasn't a fan of Transformers when he started, but just because a director is a fan of the property the movie is about, doesn't mean you're going to get a good Transformers movie. Being a fan means you'll struggle with what to put in a movie vs what not to. Do you put in references to episodes of a tv show, reference a character, which characters DO appear in the movie and what do they do? I liked Rise of the Beasts, but let's be honest, that movie forced Beast Wars in when it really didn't have any bearing on the plot, two out of the four BW characters barely spoke despite such a small cast, we could've had more Autobots and Decepticons, and everything that got deleted would've made the movie much better. And of course there's the whole Wheeljack controversy as well. Keep in mind I don't care if a character has a different design in a new iteration, but they went to the trouble of keeping Optimus and Bumblebee the same, but changed everyone else. Transformers isn't about keeping everything the same or keeping it "G1". Not everything needs to go back to G1, it really doesn't.
its really interesting that you pointed out the nostalgia reference in movies thing, because i absolutely agree that it doesn't change the quality however i cant deny i love when it does that because it feels passionate for the source material, and its a shame people out there assume everyone likes the movie only for references (not that im saying thats what you're saying ofc) references are fun and awesome to see but they're just a bonus to the movie for me, if sonic 2 or bumblebee lacked those big easter eggs and fanservice moments id still love the movie, but in certain instances they can definitely enhance a scene for me
It’s a franchise about robots turning into vehicles. The gimmick of Transformers as a franchise is literally thing changing and yet a large amount of fans berate and automatically host disdain for anything too different from whatever version is that given person’s favourite. What I’m trying to say is I like series with love put into them, especially the first three live action movies.
To add to a point that you made, I think that the Bayverse comics publsihed by IDW have the best mix of bringing back old concepts and ideas but doing their own unique take on them while also fleshing out elements that the movies lacked such as explaining why Optimus progressively got more aggressive and bloodthirsty due to the massacres and chaos that Shockwave orchestrated in the former NEST base and in urban areas, the decline into madness and dictatorship that Megatron went through because of political issues and the eventual influence of The Fallen, and even doing an entirety different and strange take on Fortress Maximus as a man-made mobile fortress designed as part of a plan to wipe out the Transformers while also keeping his G1 counterpart's dislike for conflict and war.
I’ve only somewhat recently gotten into reading a lot of the comics, so I’ll need to check out the Bayverse ones. I’ll put those on my list since it sounds cool from how you and others have described it
In terms of designs, I think Age of Extinction was the first Transformers movie I saw, and I loved it, I didn’t really understand who any of the characters were or what was going on, but I still had fun watching. At the very least, in terms of characters, I knew OF Optimus and Megatron, but that was about it. In fact, when I saw Bumblebee, and specifically this scene, I was again confused because I didn’t really recognize anyone in the scene, especially the deceptcons who G1 fans were SUPPOSED to recognize. When it comes to the G1 designs, I personally think most of them are pretty silly, even in animation. Soundwave Shockwave and Starscream didn’t look BAD in Bumblebee, but even watching it for the first time, I thought they looked too much like toys over robots. In a weird way, it reminds me of how the designs in My Little Pony (another hazbro property, funnily enough) evolved over time. The way I understand it, the first three generations of mlp were basically told to just take the toy designs, as they were, and animate them, which resulted in a lot of awkward movements and limited expressions. Then with G4, the ponies were specifically DESIGNED to make animation and expressions EASIER, and G5 (as criminally short as it was) took yet another design approach, making the ponies 3D and giving them more realistic proportions. In mlp the references to previous generations, weather it be G4 referencing G1 or G5 referencing G4, it was rarely any more than just that, a reference, something for the older fans to notice and not much else. The biggest exceptions that I’m aware of being legacy characters like Tirek and Grogar, the former of which was actually given a backstory and characterization, and the latter being the most elaborate red-hearing ever. From what I’ve seen, it seems like Transformers is doing something similar, but backwards, to use a few memes as references, the evolution of MLP’s designs seems to be “so glad I grew up with this, but damn this is better” whereas Transformers is more so “this is brilliant, but I *like* this”
Not gonna lie the cybertron scene was great, the only thing missing was megatron. I know they had reasons as to why he wasn’t in the scene but it’s still not gonna change the fact it felt off without him.
You cooked with this video! Finally more sensible Transformers fans are being seen by the algorithm! :) And yes, a lot of Transformers UA-camrs just say what the "community expects to hear" rather than their individual opinion cause for most of them this is their main source of income. The fact that you had to even label your video as a "hot take" is everything wrong with this community.
I think the BB opening sequence make sense when you consider Optimus’ character arc in ROTB. He blames himself for stranding the autobots on earth because he had to make a last minute decision to evacuate. There was no time to to stop and think, all they could do was run the second the rest of the decepticons showed up. Though I do agree the scene could’ve been longer to flow more, you also have to consider the budget as a factor. The opening was changed last minute too.
It's just fan service, its nothing. Dotm's cybertron IS Transformers done right: Vast, alien, mysterious and filled with violence and unknown technology. BB's cybertron is not alien at all, its just literally a car similar to earth and each character is just for a soyface point.
Because they represent literally nothing. It's immature. It's just fan service. The Cybertronians in DOTM worked in a mature and professional writing level to represent what aliens are, and aren't meant for selling plastic
@@alobaymar what I like about the bayverse is that in the first three movies is that transformers looked and acted alien. It helps makes them interesting. I prefer they don't make them overly human in the movies.
something that REALLY bugs me about the cybertron scene, is just how illogical it is. optimus gives bee his mission like it was a meeting, but they were only talking because bee didn't get into his pod when told to, so like, wtf was the plan if he just listened?
So, the lesson I learn from this video is built something on top of the reference, don't reference just for nostalgia or style, or referencing Iron-man from Home Coming "If there nothing without the reference then you shouldn't do it"
I think Viri hit the nail on the head: G1 nostalgia does not make a movie "Good" or "Bad". Story does. Bayformers started out with great visual components and well crafted combat that could help to tell the story in several large-scale or smaller-scale action sequences that fit together with scenes to create a cohesive plot. These kind of fell off by the 3rd movie, but that's how it started. Bumblebee and RotB started off with nostalgia at its core and left military strategy on the backburner. G1 is, first and foremost, a story about WAR. War had ravaged their homeland and turned them from standard citizens into hardened soldiers and savage warriors. Tactical maneuvers, loss, retreats and victories, even death were all factors in Transformers G1. Bay managed to include these elements into the story of the movies through the soldiers in the original 2007 film. It started off with Blackout attacking the military base and the few survivors managing to get away(Loss and Retreat), being stalked by Scorponok and having to call in the air force as back up(tactics and victories), and ended up with an escape sequence leading to a final showdown in the city(featured death on both sides). Bay got the attributes of war right in the first movie, but he chose to focus on that element instead of the nostalgia factor, opting to include the transformers themselves with designs that helped to strengthen the narrative. Does this help the movie? Yes. Did that same level of polish carry on into the later films? Debatable. Does Bumblebee's first scene have this same trait? No, not really. TL;DR: Bayformers was about WAR like G1 was, while Bumblebee put that attribute on the backburner to appeal to the nostalgia factor.
Ironically, I was late to my showtime when Bumblebee came out, and I missed the opening Cybertron scene. Later on, when I rewatched the film, I finally watched the opening, and it added nothing new to the film in any possible way. The scene itself was just nostalgia/fan service, but served no purpose to the story. The movie could just start with Bumblebee arriving to Earth and encountering John Cena, and nothing changes.
You know what makes this Bumblebee movie opening even dumber in 2024? - Minor spoilers (even though the trailer showed it): In Transformers One, Optimus Prime fought Megatron, StarScream, Soundwave, and Shockwave, ALL BY HIMSELF!!! But in the Bumblebee Movie, Optimus cowers when he sees Soundwave, StarScream, and Shockwave, then tells his Autobots to fall back, and that Cybertron has fallen? And fans wanna claim these movies are connected?
I always loved Starscream's design in the War For Cybertron games as well as his TFP design. For TFP, the way he was built gave him a sense of being unique compared to his many other generations and it genuinely does speak to his character and personality traits in my opinion
I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on the skybound transformers comic series. It’s G1 aesthetic with Bay-level intense action that actually has interesting characters and arcs.
If I were to make my own video of ‘Transformers Done Right’, it would be Skybound. I’ve been very happy with it thus far, and I think it manages to nail every aspect. For a while I held off on it since I’m always skeptical of new media being overhyped, but this is a case where I think the praise is very well deserved. I likely will do a video more broadly praising it at some point, however I’ve got three or four videos already in the pipeline that will come first, so we’ll see
It's nice to know that I ain't the only one who thinks this brand is being held back by an old-ass cartoon barely anyone watches these days lol (Not saying G1 is a bad show ofc, it's a product of its time and a fun watch on occasion). Being slavish to nostalgia seems to be an issue MANY pop-culture franchises suffer from (Star Trek, Star Wars, most 80's toy brands etc.). It's pretty obvious why tho; nostalgia has the potential of making billions since some Gen X goobers tend to mindlessly eat that shit up regardless of the inherent quality (or lack thereof lmao) which is why we're stuck in this cultural ouroboros of sequels and remakes.
In my opinion the opening scene is captured what many people like about transformers. The action is actually pleasing to the eyes you can tell who is who just by seeing or hearing their voice, the battle that we jump into is obviously for Cybertron which makes sense to why they had to abandon Cybertron find a place to regroup with other Autobots. The bav take on the transformers work really what anyone wanted for the transformer movies because there were really a story to be told. They were just have action scenes hot girl annoying human characters. Hell i couldn't even tell you who the Autobots were just buy the design
I still maintain I did not care for bumblebee and preferred the bay movies to it. It's opening scene was fun fan service that could have just been a short video own like an action cutscene in a game.
People like me who havent watch G1 doesnt even get references, for me Transformers Prime is nostalgia, i watched Prime series when it came from tv and i was just a kid, i dont know G1 at all
You're a good example of why G1 nostalgia does not automatically distill quality. We all have our own reference points for nostalgia in a franchise with so many iterations.
Its funny the part of the video that says "the characters must have key details of their original designs" I really don't see it necessary because Transformers was always a very changing franchise in its designs, for example look at the cliffjumper from tf energon or cyclonus from armada, the truth is very noticeable that people only like the scene out of nostalgia to see the designs and references and read the rest of the movie it doesn't matter, because always when talking about the bumblebee movie the conversation is always goes to the Cybertron scene
Agreed. Part of why I like Transformers as a franchise so much is that each iteration is free to experiment and try new things, both writing wise and aesthetically. I think callbacks and references are healthy, however I want to push back against the "it's good because it's a reference" mentality
i also feel what made bumblebee so meh for me was the music. steve jablonskys score is just amazing and is just apart of transformers more then you think.
The number one problem above all else I don't see talked enough about the Bayformers is the lack of characters. Development, interaction, you name it. Every one of those autobots and decepticons are interchangeable with each other. What does Bumblebee think of Ratchet? How did other Autobots feel about Sentinel's betrayal? Why didn't Bee mention Sam in TLK? These core components of a functional story are totally absent in the Bay movies and it's why I think people don't like them and may not realize it. Marvel movies are action nonsense but have extremely charismatic actors in the lead with compelling stories.
OT Bayverse is a SOLID trilogy imo. Not perfect and definitely has its flaws, but solid and way over hated. AoE is decent, it tires to do way too much but has a lot of interesting ideas, TLK is the same but way worse. Definitely the worst of the Bayverse IMO. Beewun and ROTB also have a ton of problems that people ignore simply because "It's not directed by Bay." and that's disingenuous. I enjoy all the TF live action films in their own way, but the unfair comparisons to the Bayverse are definitely hypocritical. We need to stray away from G1, it's stifling creativity and uniqueness. Also, MoS is a solid film too imo
3:53 I believe he’s referencing how with this cybertron design again we can see more and tell the planet apart. We can see their architecture and buildings and the battle zones as it is all damage but still have some life to it. Whereas the bayformers cybertron had just a hexagon design to it and we really couldn’t any buildings or pieces like so on the planet. Just a very simplistic design of cybertron
Entirely agree. I personally grew up watching the Bay Films, Cybertron, and some other media with designs unlike G1. Those are *MY* nostalgia. What makes mine any different from someone else's? Because it didn't come first? We definitely need to branch out from the G1 designs more. G1 is neat and all, but it's everywhere at this point. And just because it was first doesn't mean we have to keep piggybacking off of it. Like, why not have Prime be something other than a truck? Old doesn't and shouldn't mean something is good. The quality of it matters. To dismiss all the action in the Bayfilms as messy is largely discrediting them. Plenty of them have excellent action that's very easy to follow. Personally, I don't see where the "I can tell who's who" argument comes from. It's very easy to look at the screen and know who's who in my eyes. As for designs? Some are eh, most are excellent. I wanna highlight Starscream who gets a lot of crap because he "Doesn't look like he turns into anything". As much as people make fun of his Dorito shape body, that's a large part of why it works. Take away his limbs and head and he's basically already a jet. He works super well when someone isn't screaming in your ear that he sucks.
Optimus turning into a firetruck (edit: 2001RID or Animated) instead of a regular trailer-hauling truck is one of the neat changes I've seen. He's still a truck, but with a definitive variation from the never ending number of Truck Primes
@@lesterantenor1026 I did. And it was the best movie I saw that year. And the theatre I was in was packed too, with both adults and kids. And they all loved that scene.
Gotta say, I really like this video and your presentation. I liked the fanservice of the opening scene too but way too many fans (whether it be hardcore 80s Geewunners or harsh critics of the Bayverse) just…turn a blind eye to the style over substance approach. Like, Cam claiming there’s character development in this scene and acting like visual references are equal to good writing just grated on me. It’s also weird how he acts like the G1 designs are what made the scene great when he’s praised various non-G1 versions of the show before.
I think this scene is so beloved by fans who only watch movies through clips uploaded to UA-cam. That’s how I got drawn into watching the full movie eventually
I guess one reason why there isn't much story in the opening scene was because it was originally not supposed to be in the movie and was only added in a couple months before the movie was released. It's not a good excuse but it is one.
I feel like I heard that somewhere but didn't want to focus on that since the scene should stand on it's own regardless. That would explain a lot though. I do remember an article about how Peter Cullen got shafted a bit during production because they essentially had him dub over someone else who had already done the lines, so he was forced to match the animation that was already done
@@ViriSFMI believe there's a clip of him talking about that at a con. And if I remember correctly, Liam Neeson was considered for the 2007 movie. But it didn't happen since Peter Cullen came back. I could be wrong on that last one
Most Bees have a black strip and speaking troubles which isn’t G1. Some of my favourite designs are from the 2000s which are nothing like anything but them selves. I even like some of the Bay designs, I love G1 but that doesn’t mean I want everything to be G1 because then I wouldn’t have 2001 or beast wars or the Unicron trilogy or animated or Prime or some of the comics and universe figures.
@@2gullyy all above average. I've seen bad movies, and those ain't it. Most recently, I watched Gappa: the Triphibian Monster... Now that is shit. Lol The Last Knight is the worst Transformers movie, but that's only due to a bad studio mandated final edit. Even then, I'd probably give it like a 5.5 or a 6 out of 10, which isn't a bad movie to me, just a sloppy one. But to each their own
@@2gullyyhow is bumblebee bad? It has good characters and is wholesome(dropkick’s death did not happen), rotb is debatable, and tlk is ASS but you could like it
@@mattryan1999 honestly i think with last knight its just bay again like when he tried to say the writing strike was the real problem, and, while it was a factor, it took up ten percent of a problem that was otherwise 100 percent bay, im not saying this is what happened, im just saying my take
I would just be happy if they did a trilogy that is G1 design and follows the same landing on earth. Humans against all bots till they learn the Autobot are trying to help. Outside of that plenty of room to surprise us.
While I'm not in the camp of fans that go "[ *insert transformers project here* ] is Transformers Done Right", I can nonetheless say TF: One is a worthy addition to this franchise that truly represents why it's still going to this day. With Bumblebee, as this video (and even by extension Cam's) shows, my one critique of the movie which isn't even all on the movie but rather that darn Cybertron scene. And while I'm already starting to see some takeaway the wrong lessons from One I at least feel like there's more being discussed than aforementioned one scene in a movie that's apparently doing a franchise right. Hopefully whenever you come back you discuss your thoughts on TF: One; very curious to see what things we agree and disagree on.
Very much agree - I was very happy and pleasantly surprised with TF One. I just put out a video on the marketing which includes some of my general thoughts, but I’ll save a full review / discussion for when the movie releases digitally.
I didn’t mind the opening of the Bumblebee movie, though I did wish Megatron was kept in that opening, tearing Autobots with some lines for Megatron, Ironhide, and Starscream being these Ironhide: Don’t give up my comrades! Megatron: I AM MEGATRON!!! Starscream: Die, Autobots!
With a tinge of rewriting you could probably make that work. I think it would add to the mystery of the Transformers more. You could slowly reveal some bits of Cybertron through flashbacks like what happened with the Ravage scene in the middle of the film.
@@ViriSFM thats what i was thinking, the holograms of Optimus were done so well i wish them and his small flash-backs when he was in the pod would have been enough.
I like both the Micheal Bay films and the Bumblebee movie, just not Rotb, it felt like a low-effort version of a Micheal Bay movie, it ruined the point of rebooting the series since they just went back to the same thing, and was even moredisappointing because it's lost the charm of Micheal bay. I hope that sentence made sense
It makes even more sense when you realize that the Cybertron opening wasn’t supposed to be in the original cut of this movie. It was actually supposed to lead into the ‘07 film. i If you look into the tie-in comic made for the video release of Bumblebee you can see that it revolves around Simmons, Benachek and “The IceMan” which; as we all know; are ideas and characters from the first film. Any scenes with Optimus on earth were also not part of the original cut either.
Me who wants to see robots fight either in the front line in domination or desperation: Gets only 1 minute of small battles and ends there Crying my self to sleep knowing i may not get what i want for years to come
I can agree with you 100% especially towards the end of the video here like if you stick to the same stuff all you're doing is just making the same thing in just a different quality there's nothing wrong with sticking to the storyline but change it up a bit add some different designs add a little bit here and there to the storyline there is nothing wrong with change
I honestly believe the transformers fandom is borderline delusional transformers as a franchise as a brand literally has to change to stay alive and I don’t understand how so called real fans don’t understand this. Judge and criticize new incarnation of transformers on its own without having a geewunner mentality
Character and character development>>>> I got introduced to transformers 15 years ago through the bayverse movies and I loved them, and I still like them personally. Then Transformers prime and a few other shows. I tried to enjoy G1 but it was difficult for me to enjoy, though I do keep trying to watch it through. Honestly, because I can't bring myself to care about scifi politics/who beat who in what year and who is winning what war in any scifi media (star wars, transformers, star trek etc) and I'm more into the characters and their interactions, crossing species barriers and caring about a home away from home etc., I feel like I'm in such a small portion of the fan base and what I'm here for LOL. If I were to make a show, I'd focus on character growth and change. For example, I'd probably do post-war, and write an environment where the autobots are trying to adjust from their war mindset and feeling almost lost without the war in this admittedly, still new environment. I'd keep cybertron dead because the planet's core itself died and I think reviving is too relied upon in the transformers media tbh. To keep something in effect and have to adapt is one of the hardest things to do in life but it can be more bearable when not alone. When cybertron is able to be revived, I feel like it makes the war lose a lot of its weight. To have a permanently dead cybertron and force the cybertronians to learn how to bloom in a new environment is really something that holds a lot of potential I think. So, I'd have the cybertronians take time to reflect on who was lost, what was lost, and grapple with their existence and what they think their reason for existing is in this new environment. Optimus primarily, he's been fighting for so long and wishing for peace for so long that when peace comes, he will have to go through some trials to adapt to this life. I'd keep in note the stories of peaceful veterans like Bob Ross and other veterans to keep respectfully in mind, their journey acclimating from war into a 'civilian' life. Optimus getting in touch with his Orion side again, learning to be an individual. Some bots would take the end of the war better than others. Bee would probably do well, he's always held his connections to a very high value. Soundwave would also be a very interesting character to detail with what he does post war. I've lived around veterans and soldiers all my life and the way they handle things is so different amongst each and every individual. I know not a lot of people would probably particularly enjoy this, but I really want a show that focuses less on the bad guy or the bad thing of the week until the ultimate bad guy pops up, and more on the overarching journey of the characters as they learn to live with what has changed as they learn to be patient with themselves, rediscovering life post war.
I’m someone who grew up with the bay movies,TFA and TFP and a bit of rescue bots, I’m open minded to new takes of transformers and honestly in my opinion the live action reboot is complete trash they had the blue print take the positives from the bayverse and leave out the negatives, infuse the positives with new fresh story’s but instead we got nostalgia bait,lazy reused story’s and character arcs,and they kept a lot of the negatives of the bayverse while also bringing in new negatives to the table simultaneously. Nostalgia should also flow with the story not take away from it like a sore thumb Optimus turning into a flat nose in tf4 and optimus doing his iconic air flip in Revenge of the fallen is a good example of nostalgia being implemented well
Tbh, as a long time Transformer fan (Thanks to my dad who happened to watch Transformers from when G1 started and until the Rise of the Beast) I really enjoyed Bayverse. Did it match the other series? No Were there any missing or extra items? Yes but Bayverse also Created itself a different universe with Comics that let us learn what happened behind the scenes or extras. Also I think a lot of people is missing something about Bayverse: They were in Allianed (I hope I wrote it right) Contunity. Meaning that even though Micheal Bay was the producer a lot of things were handled by Hasbro. Like Adding Ironhide in Bayverse but not TFP because it might be confusing for younger audince or setting a different desings that can be used all of the contunities that were going on that time (Books, Comics, Games, Cartoons and Films). I'm not saying Michael Bay is the best producer but people need to realise if Hasbro wants something to he added or removed producers have to do it. Also if I know right one of the reason why Bayverse was cancelled is beacuse Hasbro didn't make the profit that they were excepting with last two movies. When it comes to Bumblebee movie. Movie is great so is Rise of the beast but... For a series that promise and promotes that they would be more Cybertron/Transformers centered they have very less action and explanation but Transformers and more of a human scene. Like I get it, there has to be human and Bayverse also had a lot of human in the movies but... I think it's a bit... too much. When I was watching Bumblebee Movie for the first time I sadly couldn't watch it on cinema but from my tv. And I was confused why we were focus that girl (Charlie) who hates her parents and wants to her old life back. Like How??? Some people might think that it could be necessary for that film to work but for me. An opening scene where we supposed to see how things started being as long as her taking some kind of revenege from the people who bullied for was kind of weird. However, while both movies have their own good and bad aspects, it is absurd to criticize the other series just because we liked one movie more. I meeeaaan. Transformers is just a good profit source for Hasbro and they treat it like that with soo many contunities. Why not just enjoy and have fun? (Also if I bore anyone with my long speech sorry for that! Following Transformers from almost 15 years as a young person and having English as second language can couse troubles like this ^^")
I mean to me Bayverse is nostalgic now im not saying its the best. But its what i grew up with im 18 and when Transformers 2007 came out i was 2 years old i grew up with the bayverse movies, transformers animated and transformers prime. Everyone will have their own nostalgia not everything has to be pointed to G1 because as nostalgia
“Your argument… is logical” All jokes aside, over the years I’ve been increasingly leaning towards this take too. A lot of people’s defense for this scene really boils down to “it looks cool/right” because of designs matching and such. Although much like with criticisms of the Bay films, the designs being a certain way is not the reason those movies are bad, it’s because of the awful writing, unbearable and unlikeable characters, Transformers that lack depth or development or even sometimes basic characterization, etc. And here there is no talk about the rushed pacing, frantic editing that moves a bit too quick, the very awkward cinematography and camera movement throughout the scene, and the points you elaborated on in the video. I’m glad more people are talking about it, because while this scene is fun to watch and generally a nice love letter, it’s not as transcendent as some people would suggest. Also big props to you mentioning Andor in this video, that show is peak
Style over substance? In a kids toy commercial? Say it isn't so. They aren't making Citizen Kane. Could they do a deep, complex Transformers storyline? Maybe make Megatron more sympathetic and give the Autobots nuanced motives? How many toys do you figure that would sell? Like Disney's CEO said, our job is not to make art, it's to make money. In the process of making money they may incidentally make art, but the poinr is to make money. If you are a transformers fan, get used to style over substance.
I think its possible to pull off substance over style, (ex: IDW comics) but to make a thought-provoking story within a film's runtime is difficult. After all, people came to see giant robots crash metallic parts into each other for about an hour or two. Not be given a philosophy lesson. Doesn't mean it's not worth giving it a try for a movie, but there are plenty other mediums more suitable for substance-focused TF content
19:00 I don't mind so much that Bumblebee's Blitzwing doesn't lok like G1 Blizwing. What I care about it that he looked too much like Star Scream. They could have at least gotten the colors right.
I agree with all the points you made in this video especially with the fact that their feels like there is no strategy in the first part of the film it's not long enough and that's why I liked Bay movie so much they're not all that good but seeing the communication between the Autobots and the humans and the humans between themselves that's what I liked about those movies and G1 I think we can step away from G1 and still keep some like references to it like you said but maybe entirely try and bass everything off of G1 or the designs or anything like that I think it's time for something new with Transformers it's 40 years old
Hmm, you could definitely make that idea work, yet it could go either way depending on who writes it and the tone. That’s something that I think could slot into G1 or Animated, but if you tried that in a live action movie I could see it getting weird.
The reason why the military and battle scenes in the movies actually felt like real military scenes and the soldiers felt and acted like soldiers is, because all of them except the main actors (Duhamel, Gibson, Morshower, etc.) were. Bay's only real direction for the military extras was to "react to this attack as how you would in real life", and being actual soldiers, airmen, sailors, marines, whatever, I think they did a pretty good job of that. The Transformers movies are _military_ sci-fi action/disaster movies, so it's gonna actually feel like an actual, real war is happening, opposed to G1 and BBM being mostly "robot superhero" entries.
Watching all the BTS for TF1 was really interesting in that regard. You see a lot of the training an prep work that Bay and the actors went through to try and make the military element of that film more authentic.
@@ViriSFM Absolutely, my favorite scene is the Scorponok chase, since the making of that scene involved the team setting up a bunch of explosives, giving the actors one direction: "run like hell and do not stop", and capturing their genuine terror and surprise as they ran.
How the Bayverse pulled off TF into becoming an action movie, sci-fi movie, military movie, disaster movie, robot and alien and glorified car commerical movie all in one, is just outright ridiculous but they somehow pulled it off
@@ViriSFM. Saw one joe vid say;"it's weird that Michael Bay directed transformers, not joe, considering that franchise was practically made for him".
@@spongeboymebob771 So explain borderline EVERY TF show, game and comic having action sequences having focus on the robots themselves and not acting like a military ad?. This is transformers, not a disaster franchise. Fans want to see war between alien robots, not war between humans and aliens. There's plenty of other movies that do that. Transformers isn't just that alone.
transformers fans try to enjoy anything challenge: impossible
That's what you get when you let a franchise have like hundreds of deviations or "sub-series/continuities" not that it was a bad thing, but it's bound to happen, the G1 vs non-G1 comforming camp should've known this by now
FoC is on top imo, i think most people could enjoy it
@BamiAndCheese bro, not even foc is good. War for cybertron is better, the mp the campaign lasts longer im sorry if you think foc is good ik its your opinion I can just counter it with a uno reverse card
@@MO7ORMAS7ER you are insufferable at best
@@MO7ORMAS7ERfoc is still beloved alongside wfc
In my opinion, the Bey verse's main issue was how it treated the plot. The designs were pretty okay (except TLK Prime and Blackout kicks ass) and the characters were interesting takes but the plot was just a mess. Every movie resets when the Autobots and Decepticons arrived. If you disagree, you are probably right cause I'm just some idiot on the internet.
Well hey, I’m also just some guy on the internet - I just happen to have a microphone and editing software. I would agree though, the writing is what I’m primarily concerned about. I’m worried the community is more lenient with anything that looks like G1 / Beast Wars, which often lets more sketchy writing slip by
@@ViriSFM True that.
tlk and aoi prime is my least favourite design from bayversere
@@BIGBRITISHBLOKE the only "Optimus" in that design is the head , colors and the smoke stacks on his back. All that is just tacked onto a generic robot knight that DOES NOT TRANSFORM INTO A TRUCK.
Yeah, even as a massive Bay fan I'm not gonna straight up deny the story can get messy sometimes (in my defense, I don't actually care about story as long as I can see giant robots punch each other), but imho part of the fun of the movies is using what you're given to fill in the blanks the points between (and before) the movies. I think the prequel comics do a pretty good job of explaining things like life on Cybertron, the war's beginning and exactly who, when and how they arrived to Earth. While the first movie prequel comic is neat, it was written back when we had zero context for the past aside from some fleeting remarks and expo. So I prefer Defiance and Foundation, since they kind of work together in a way and Foundation really feels like a continuation of the Defiance story rather than like how Defiance basically rewrote what happened in the Movie 1 Prequel. That's kinda how I go about it myself, finding explanations for "how things got this way" and making up the rest as I go along.
I'm the furthest thing possible from a writer, so I have no right to criticize or claim my own take is better or correct, but it works for me and makes everything make sense to me personally, and that's really all I care about.
13:42 honestly the fact you mention the oddness of where the 3 flyers went and why they weren't doing anything to the escaping pods around them is made even more hilarious when you rewatch the scene and realize that Starscream is one of the flyers.
I think the only reason it was 2 minutes was because the budget couldn’t afford a 5-10 minute full cgi sequence
I'm sure this stuff is ridiculously expensive for each second, which is why we probably won't get a whole movie of it like lots of people have been wanting
@@ViriSFM yeah, at least we have transformers one, which I’m holding out hope it’ll be good
It's not even just that. A lot of statements from behind the scenes imply that the Cybertron opening was a very late stage addition to the point that it was likely even last minute.
@@LibraKai yeah, the scene wasn’t the original opening. It originally started with bumblebee right after he crash landed and was hiding. I think the clip is on UA-cam
7:12 another example that instantly came to mind was the bonecrusher fight and the decepticon encroachment on the highway from 2007. The only lines of dialogue in that scene are from the human characters, and yet we see the autobots respond and counter the looming threat behind them. Bumblebee stays in front of the convoy, given that he has such precious cargo, while ratchet and ironhide shift in front of optimus, who sets himself up to tank any potential confrontation from behind the group. Fast forward later, prime goes out his way to send his opponent off the main Freeway, instead fighting him down below where there is less in the line of fire. The decepticon is dispatched cleanly and efficiently, and prime checks his surroundings in the event any other decepticons were tailing him. It's very subtle stuff but makes that fight so much more interesting to watch, and makes the characters look much more competent as warriors than the BB opening or even the later bay movies themselves.
Very true - I think people can underestimate how much character you can convey through action scenes. Little details like you mentioned can go a long way to characterizing people without any dialogue
Hi bagel
@@weewoo695 small world! Lmao
@@ViriSFM. Seen the Sonic and shadow fight from Sonic Prime? Shadow=Jason Bourne, Sonic=Indiana Jones! Right?
the whole claim to "resemble designs to original counterparts for people who loved them for what they are to begin with" implies a large majority of transformers movie-goers are original fans. A large majority of transformers movie-goers are not original fans, it sure has a loud internet voice but most of the box office consists of first-exposures and casual movie audiences. Making a film to reference things esoteric to a fanbase rather than properly introducing which character does what without previous knowledge isn't good.
The g1 designs was not going to work for transformers 2007
@@giovonniiclayton. Maybe they could've. Why didn't bay direct some real american heroes? Watch"better with bob"for more!
Yeah so designs intrinsic to a character are hardly "esoteric". Typical Hollywood groupthink to spurn the people who financially supported the I.P. large and long enough to get it to the point of getting a live action movie made. It's worked out well.
@@burntvirtue. Dude, the transformers fandom dwindled considerably since the original ended, the only people who stuck around got older, but not enough for that. Once the live action movie arrived, playing towards the casuals paid off, many additions they made become integrated with newer continuities like the allspark,some characters who become nothing but placeholder names get into the top again(ironhide),and the movie made many new fans, myself included. Seriously, knew nothing about transformers before that movie!
@@erikbihari3625 Being uninformed isn't a badge of honor
It’s kind of funny how many TF references the 2007 film has when you go back to it. You can tell that fans enjoyed working on it and adding little nods. It’s more subtle and digestible than the entire opening scene of Bumblebee because they kept a general audience in mind and don’t throw it in your face, which is something that this scene does to a fault.
Watching the BTS documentaries for TF1 really does show how many people were huge fans and excited to work on it. Especially hearing the writers talk about their thought process behind certain decisions is interesting
The only reference in 2007 I noticed was when Blackout transformed. SO please enlighten me on others
@@Grimm196 Well, i am no expert on transfomers media,( i am just now discovering the franchise ), but in the ending of the first movie, optimus says "like with us there's more then meet the eye" or something like that, and i think it's referencing the first arc of the g1 show where they introduce the characters.
@@Grimm196 There's a shop in Mission City called "Takara Sushi" which is an obvious nod "Takara Tomy", the original toy makers of the Transformers from Japan.
@MatteoPicone-yy7pk More than meets the eye is used in every facet of the franchise
Honestly, I prefer the TF3 opening too. Granted I loved the close up visuals of the Bumblebee Movie opening, there was more visual story telling present in the opening of TF3, I often found myself slowing down and looking at each of the tiny robots as a kid watching how the fights are unfolding and how exactly are the autobots losing.
In the TF3 opening you can clearly see the divide between the autobot and decepticon forces, you see the autobots resort to desperate tactics (destroying the platform unfer that cat walker thing) while the decepticons were just upfront and plowing through them without worry.
They both have their ups and downs. There is something about the TF3 opening that feels more 'epic'. Probably because of Peter Cullen's narration, but it also does tell a decent little story that expands more on Cybertron's history. BB's opening is more personal though while TF3 feels a detached from the characters.
@@ViriSFMAgreed. Though if I may, I am curious of your opinion of the upcoming TF One movie. What are your thoughts on it so far, my good sir~?
@@EtherialBoy I thought about making a TF One video, but I want to wait and see how it turns out. The trailer didn't really sell me on it, and I'm worried it's going down the MCU hole of not taking anything seriously and undermining itself with unfunny quips. It seems far more kiddy than I expected, but so long as it's a decent film I won't mind if it "isn't for me". I don't want to write it off since trailers don't always reflect the final product, so I'm going to reserve judgement until then.
@@ViriSFMI recommend checking out Filmento’s video on Bumblebee. I think he also has an interesting view on why it doesn’t work.
The Autobots destroy what cat walk in TF3? I recently watched TF3 and there wasn't a cat walk that I saw
Drinking game: Everytime Steve Rogers/Captain America says "I understood that refrence." Take a drink.
*Dies.*
2:05
9:20
Bay Ironhide should be the canon design because it's so damn good. Same for Sentinel and Bumblebee
Yeah, I'm biased, but i don't care, i need to see them again
hasbro hates us
I mean.... The Bumblebee head is basically movie canon. Sentinel could get a head change, not a big fan of the weird beard he has going on. Ironhide is alright. As long as you don't say we need Bay's Wheeljack, I'm fine with what you think.
@@Grimm196 we need bay's wheeljack unironically
@@alobaymar hell no. I don't want to his Einstein lookin' ass ever again
@@alobaymar Just no. I never want to see his Einstein lookin' butt ever again
When people keep stating that G1 is the golden standard for transformers and anything that deviates from it is an absolute atrocity, just irritates me. It often feels like they're not allowed to have their own original ideas. I hate that because it pretty much prevents any new and possibly interesting stories to be told.
GIVE ME TFP
One human character was literally named"SparkPlug"! Not like nickane,joke,ect. His actual name!
New and interesting is fine, AFTER they nail, and do justice to G1
@@burntvirtue. You know that after G1 there was only beast wars, right?
This video is criminally underviewed
I think ROTB Arcee was a vast improvement over the Bumblebee movie version. That movie doesn't get enough credit for how realized the autobots are both in terms of design as well as personality.
As much as that movie relies on Beast Wars imagery in lieu of G1, I do agree that Arcee and Mirage are pretty solid examples of using a healthy amount of G1 influence to update a character's design
@@ViriSFMThat's what I prefer than just straight us using G1 designs. Hell Bumblebee does kinda have his G1 head shape and his design fits his name more
i would have preffered the same, if not more character, but with ROTF Arcee because i still don't like the idea of losers gooning on robot women.
@@alobaymar The ROTF Arcee designs were definitely underrated, they were not perfect by any means, but I am getting tired of designs simply being just a female silhouette. (Although TFP Arcee looked really cool imo.
i couldn't agree more, many fans really can't see through fan service
I'm happy for this video because I know there's problem in the opening scene. But we're all blinded by nostalgia as to why it's actually bad.
I remember back on 2018 how I was so happy to be able to recognise every characters. But at the same time, it's not entirely good either. I only realised this because I became fed up with the G1 designs being overused. But I can't use that as to why the scene is bad. Because that's just a me problem. Me being fed up with those designs. It's actually something else as to why it's not the best scene. And to add insult, those characters were background fodders and not main characters. I'm done hearing people say Bumblebee Movie is a good Transformers movie when it's not even a Transformers Movie to begin with as Bumblebee is the only character that's entirely focused on and the Decepticons that are the main antagonists don't get name dropped as if they don't matter. Bumblebee Movie is just a heartfelt giant robot bonding with a human type of story but used Transformers as the IP.
I agree with the first half but would push back on the second.
I understand the “not a transformers movie” argument since it comes up a lot in other circles (looking at Spider-Man,) but I think Bumblebee is one of the better Transformer stories. Despite my thoughts on the opening, I still think the movie is pretty solid and a good addition to the franchise.
I’d probably have to do a whole video on this topic alone, but I get where you’re coming from and it’s a discussion worth having.
Tfp Arcee is 100% the best Arcee, everything about her is perfect from the her design, her voice, her history, her character development and most importantly her personality, the G1 Arcee however was boring and bland, she had barely any personality at all and her design was basically a robot Princess Leia but pink. This is just my opinion and I respect others but I just like prime Arcee the best, I find other Arcee versions interesting as well but for me the G1 version sucks.
Oh yeah, TFP Arcee is easily be best. I think the fact she’s such a good and beloved character despite not resembling her G1 variant in any way (aesthetics AND writing) just goes to show that you can easily mold a character into something new and fresh
I see where you’re coming from, but I personally thought her personality was a little bit bland. Love tfp, but I feel people mis-remember her as more witty and sarcastic. When in reality she is a drag who pulls a smirk every once in a while.
@@MCS_Mr.Malice I would be curious to revisit TFP again and analyze it more closely. I'm sure it doesn't hold up as well as when I first watched it, but whenever I go back and watch a scene or episode, I think a lot of it is good. I do still hold Arcee in high regards, but maybe my opinions would change
I did rewatch prime recently, still loved most of it. But I realized stuff I didn’t before. Like how for the majority of the show there’s no plot. There’s the relic hunt and the entirety of season3. Again still a good show but kinda funny.
Prime Arcee is literally just diet chromia
I think Bumblebee could’ve gotten its own graphic novel that explains in a different perspective as a feature long meanwhile, like Hoowdinked. It should explain what’s going on, how Optimus Prime survived and escaped Cybertron, while adding individual character stories of which planet they arrived in, and trying to survive and stay incognito as other alien machinery, if possible. If not, then, they need to blend in Predator style.
That could be a fun idea. The more I explore the comics, the more I'm realizing that medium has some of the best content in the franchise
@@ViriSFM Hey, it works very well with Bayverse prequels/midquels. We should have some cool adventures with the other Autobots who are not JUST G1-inspired.
the reason bumblebee and other transformers films never got comics is because dark of the moon’s ending was leaked because of a graphic novel
They could've made a show.
Having an amazing Episode with Cliffjumper so his death is even worse to normal fans and not just us TF fans who dont want to see him die every iteration
The moment i realized the opinion of the bee movie and rotb fans is not factual is when they were fine with prime murdered Scourge, but when bay prime does it is wrong.
I was a bit confused with the fan reaction to Prime in that movie. He brutalizes Scourge and quips to Primal about stealing his kill on Battletrap, the later of which I don't even think Bay Prime would have done. I'm alright having a more violent Prime, but I don't get why RotB didn't catch the same flak.
@@ViriSFMI’d say it’s more about bay film fans that didn’t have an issue with the brutal stuff in bay films are the majority now
@@B-SybrZaku-ThendHaloAirsofting not really?? I've seen many people express that they didn't like Bay Prime being violent while excusing the same amount of violence from ROTB Prime.
@@maxdahooman still a lot of people like me who grew up with the bay films and liked them are older and have a larger voice in the community now
@@B-SybrZaku-ThendHaloAirsofting well yes that's true though I'm saying that the general voice I heard from this movie movie was that brutal Prime was good here but bad in the Bay Films when the brutality is very equal
I honestly feel like dotm had the best final battle. The movie did a great job displaying the sense of defeat and danger. Which was further displayed when Optimus and the autobots had to hide out and stay out of site. Optimus was also being more of a war general in this film. Giving out call outs, and asking for divergences so that he could retrieve his flight tech. This also did a great job with incorporating the military into their battle strategy as well. All this made added to the final battle which is why scenes like Optimuses rage, and the charge to the pillar with the military, bumble bee, and ratchet are more then just them going out and just doing whatever its more of them seeing an opening and taking advantage. Which lead to a great pay off when the battle was won sams storyline coming to an end and prime giving his speech.
I have praises and criticisms of that battle but it really does feel like Bayformers' climax. If there was no AoE and TLK, the battle of chicago would have been a solid send off for Michael Bay's tenure with a long, bombastic, all-out battle sequence (another reason I think it should have stopped at DotM)
I love that everyone hating bubmlebee says "oh you like this movieonly for opening scene exists" when I first watched this movie I knew very little about transformers and I only saw one episode of g1 so i only knew who optimus was shockwave soundwave and starscream and still after watching it I decided that it and Bey's first movie was the best transformers live action movies
Same thing here, your logic seems to be impeccable.
I would need to think on whether or not BB or TF1 is the best live action film - I lean towards BB, but the more I look at TF1 the more I find to appreciate
Exactly. I wish they had stayed with the bumblebee opening designs just because they looked nice. I love the bay films but I want more color on my bots
As a casual TF fan, the opening felt more like appeasing the majority who hated the bay films. Appeasing the mainly G1 fans with well, the G1 designs. Something that people kept complaining about were those bayverse designs.This film was just as forgettable as AOE and TLK due how this scene really carried this film. I'm not saying that we shouldn't have G1 things nor a scene on cybertron. It technically was nice to see it but then again, we just SEE IT, we don't process anything except haha funi blocky robots fighting.
The fans are to me, split between "we want g1 stuff" vs "we're getting bored of G1 stuff"
You should tackle more of Comodin Cam's videos, his channel is arguably one of the best Transformers content available here!
His recent Transformers ONE discussions and his many design tier lists are amazing!
I'd be happy to - I hadn't seen any of his stuff prior to this but he seems like a good guy. He is very good faith and has some good ideas, I just wish he would expand more on his points. This is an older video though, so maybe he's changes it up a bit
I agree with pretty much everything here! I love the BBM opening scene but I feel like it has reached a point of being praised for all the wrong reasons and has been put on a pdestal that it quite frankly doesn't deserve. It is a great scene, but the main draw is "Look at the G1!" and it kinda sucks that so many were caught by such key jangling.The references and some of the designs are cool, I just wish there was more for it to truly deserve the hype that it gets. What exactly is going on besides the basic "Decepticons are winning"? Like I don't need something complex but you can't say much is going besides "Autobots are losing and need to evacuate". Honestly, I've always preferred DOTM's opening speech. The music is fantastic, I love Prime's speech, and there are a lot of cool shots in there like the missiles flying up to the Ark in that wideshot.
Another thing too is how some people out there talk about this scene. It really isn't the best thing done in live-action Transformers and all anyone ever mentions are the designs. Again, it is that key jangling. It is just so surface level, I don't care if people love it and have it as their favorite scene, I just wish hyperbole surrounding it was lessened. Awesome video here, this was a really good look at BBM Cybertron scene and the discussions around it!
I do admit seeing slight reworks of G1 is getting a bit stale.
I felt like the opening sequence in Bumblebee, was a bit overrated and it completely overshadowed the whole movie. WheneverTransformers fans talk about the best film of the franchise, they don’t talk about Bee and Charlie’s relationship, Shatter and Dropkick being good villains, or even the hard work Travis Knight and the team put in. The fans only care about, are the Cybertron scenes. Yes it’s G1 and nostalgia, but we had too much G1 right now.
My thoughts exactly - I don't hate the Cybertron sequence, I just think it gets may more praise than it deserves for having G1 nostalgia, which ends up overshadowing the rest of the movie.
That's not entirely true. I love Bumblebee for the story it told and how for once they made a human character compelling. Sure tye Cybertron scene still looks amazing, but the movie itself is what I really love. For once the Decepticons actually had personalities and felt like real characters instead of just mindless killing machines. So no, Transformers fans don't only care about the opening of the film. And I don't appreciate how you're putting every single one of then into that bracket instead of generalizing it.
AND not to mention, these fans have grown sick and tired of the human element of the movies (while simultaneously refusing to accept that such a film without live actors is physically and fiscally impossible without an insane amount of cut corners), that all they want now is a purified Cybertron focused movie with absolutely zero reference to humanity or Earth. I blame the Cybertron games, as much as I do enjoy them, they've instilled this really weird viewpoint in people. Now they just want "the Cybertron movie", not even realizing it takes away from the entire premise of Transformers. While I understand their gripe sometimes, it gets ridiculous at times.
People are tired of the bayverse designs. End of story.
Yup, fucking spot on, i experienced that alot too.
The Bumblebee movie designs are great but we need more unique designs especially this days since G1 designs are all over the place. That's why i really like Some of the bayverse design and the Rotb design. Rotb Mirage still resembles the original but it has a very unique design. Same goes with the Rotb Maximals They resemble their original counterpart but while having a unique design.
Yes, one of my favorite alternate designs were the Einstein wheel jack, I thought it was a cool change
@@lorainaclark9703 I don’t think y’all are real transformer fans
If anything, '07 pretty much solidified every new Barricade conception as the corrupt police bot, it was easy for Barricade since he was brought into the spotlight after obscurity, the other already popular transformers have a hard time deviating from their G1 build, Starscream's dorito is atrocious but it was unique to Bayverse and that stands out compared to other Starscreams
@@dylanhudec979 Ofcourse, G1 fans are the only real transformers fans, am i right?!🙄
I think the Rise of the Beasts opening is much better.
First off, it establishes all you need to know before diving into the rest of the film with a monologue reminiscent of the Bay films openings (which is a cool reference and helps tie it in to other live action Transformers movies thematically): Who the Maximals are and where they came from, what the Transwarp key is, who Scourge and Unicron are and what they want (I don't believe it says why Unicron wants it but it says that later in the film), it shows why Scourge goes to Earth, it shows off how strong Scourge is and the god-like power of Unicron.
Secondly, it is pretty. The mix of a jungle and tech is a really cool visual, gives off the impression that this is a world where animal Transformers might live. It could also be environmental storytelling by establishing that the Maximals terraformed the world as the tech would indicate, but I don't think this is really hinted at so I doesn't count.
Thirdly, an awesome action scene. Scourge is pretty intimidating, walking in the dark with that ominous music playing while his red eyes glow in the shadows. And Apelinq! A cool inclusion of an obscure character. A short but neat battle scene follows, which again, shows off Scourge's combat skill and power.
Personally, I've never been fan of the G1 designs. I was born in 2000, so I pretty much grew up with the Bay movies, as a kid, I was in awe.
But now today as an artist(comics and 2D animation), looking back at the Bay designs, my opinion is that they're way too complicated.
For me, the best designs ever drawn were made by Don Figueroa in the 2012 IDW run of The Transformers.
Don had the perfect blend of the G1 aesthetic mixed with Gundam and the Bay designs. To this day, I really don't understand WHY they don't use his designs for the movies because they follow the "keep it simple stupid" approach.
As someone who has attempted to draw Bay's designs, I feel the overcomplicated argument. I can appreciate we have that style in the franchise though. IDW does have some really solid designs - I need to explore the comics more, but from what I've seen, the art is consistently top notch
As a 3d modeler and artist I’d also agree they are too complicated though I personally love it prime, bumblebee, and sideswipe
Something cool I noticed about Bayverse designs is that if you put them in an animated style like TF Prime or TF Animated they actually look really nice.
Then I realized that these designs would have worked perfectly in an animation more than in a film
@@dagon1523 a not really, they more so redesigned the WFC models than Bayverse designs.
Which makes sense because TFP is a direct sequel to the the WFC games, it's really noticeable with Optimus' design, his wheel placement, his shoulder pads and all
4:25 True. Just look at the Evergreen model thing they pulled.
When it comes to Transformers redesigns movies or shows I prefer some consistency
I totally understand that point and think there's merit to it. I can appreciate how Optimus has fairly consistent elements across all his iterations. Personally I am more willing to explore new designs since it has worked out well in cases like TFP Arcee or Blitzwing in BB. A lot of the time though Transformers seems to use names merely as a label to legitimize what is essentially a new character. Maybe I need to do a whole video on this topic alone since there's a lot to unpack. The main point in relation to this video is that I want to avoid the "it's good because it's G1" argument.
@@ViriSFM have any opinions on the Transformers one trailer
@@ViriSFM One of my problems with the Bay movies is the fact that all the Transformers have colorful designs that help distinguish each character. That's why the big confusion of who was the flyer Bee killed in the Beginning of Bumblebee started. Cause they were in Starscreams colors.
But for Bay's movies. If your not an Autobot your just a shades of grays, And this works well for cannon fodder. But not Big names like Shockwave or Starscream
@@allanorme2093 Except with Bayformers you can’t tell who is who when it comes to the Decepticons
@@swiftstreak98. Starscream looked like dirrito, megatron was muscular, and the fallen was skinny! Funny that?
This is some peak ragebait I've seen (I didnt got raged but many others for sure) I give it 10/10 and besides you had your points that not every other has
Yeah, I definitely agree with you man. While I enjoyed Bumblebee, there are so many things I would praise than just the Cybertron scene, like the main human character Charlie Waston, the comedy, the acting, character development for some characters, the writing of story and characters and a lot more.
Oh and I hope you don't mind about this, there is another problem that should be pointed out is that some TF fans(mostly older fans) have this weird and weak mentality when it comes to the transformers franchise, it can even be said towards a lot of franchises meant primarily for kids and families(more accurately for all ages) and I think it's best to call it out. Some fans keep demanding that the transformers franchise's tone should be very "mature, dark and gritty", and that the primary target audience should be solely for teenagers and adults, stop appealing towards kids forever... because they actually think it will automatically make transformers, great, well-written and successful. But to be honest, it does not. It's so misguided on what makes a piece of entertainment media great and successful in general. And because the Transformers franchise has always been and will continue to be a franchise primarily for kids and families aka all ages and that is not even bad. It's been doing so well with that kind of target audience. All mainline Transformers cartoons like Transformers Prime, Animated, etc. are made for kids as the main target audience, they were all rated TV-Y7-FV, they aired on kids tv networks. Those shows were sellings toys to kids. They were all great kids/family shows and great transformers shows, they were not only successful and praised by younger audience, but also praised by teens and adults who were long time fans of transformers. So let's be real, Hasbro Studios, Takara Tomy and Paramount would never abandon audiences under the age of 13, there is no logically reason on why they should when it comes to transformers. And just because something is mature or dark, does not automatically mean it's actually makes it so great or very "smart". Especially when there are poorly received tv shows and movies that are meant to be mature and dark, ones that are targeted at a more mature older audience like Netflix Transformers WFC Trilogy, Fantastic Four 2015, Suicide Squad 2016 and some of zack snyder's movies like batman v superman and rebel moon. Those were poorly received, not because of it's intended audience, not necessary because of it's tone or TV/Movie rating(weather it's rated R, PG 13 or TV MA), but because of the people behind those works, they had bad writting of stories, characters, scripts, bad pacing, poor direction, poor acting and just lack of creativity, passion and originality. The thing is I'm trying to make is that what makes a movie or tv show or any franchises great/successful is never the tone, it's never the target audience or the ratings, they do not define the quality of its content, it's the people behind their works if they are very talented and are passionate about their works.
Disclaimer: This is not me trying attack or change anyone's opinions and personal thoughts. I know that we all have our own opinions and it's always ok to agree or disagree with each other. I respect everyone's opinions no matter how different they are. This just something that I just noticed on a lot of franchises that mainly targets at kids and families. I mean have you seen a lot of posts on TFW2005 and reddit, they are so against each other's throats about this whole fun and lighthearted vs mature and dark in a lot of movie, cartoon and video game franchises.
I do want to avoid that trap of saying "it should be dark / gritty because I'm an adult now and that stuff is for adults". I agree we should be more focused on quality in general rather than tone, especially since the franchise originated as light hearted and campy, and has largely remained as such. There are tons of great examples of good kids' content that appeals to adults - name pretty much any movie from the Disney / Pixar golden age. Being for kids does not exclude something from good stories and characters. I think the Netflix War for Cybertron series is a prime example of trying to be edgy and mature gone wrong.
On the other side, I do think Transformers as a franchise should still acknowledge that there is a large and passionate fan base that has grown up and craves more mature stories as well. By no means are they obligated to pivot towards adult content, but it is something to take into consideration. When iCarly rebooted for instance, they knew that the kid who grew up with the show were adults now, and changed their tone to match.
It's an interesting dilemma, but ultimately I'm happy either way so long as we get quality media out of it.
@@ViriSFM, yeah, that's what I thought. I agree. Thanks for your reply mate.
Nice to see someone not give Bumblebee a tongue bath for its G1 sequence. It's a cool sequence, but it's like Star Wars: Rogue One. It plays out like a decent fan film, not a good story.
That was really my main issue with rise of the beasts that it didn't follow the story that bumblebee set up.
Edit: most of the characters in rise of the beast or just kind of there as well. Where at least in bumblebee like for example shatter and dropkick you at least get to see their personalities
RotB felt like it wanted to do it's own story and be detached from BB. It's a very odd sequel that you could be forgiven for thinking is another soft reboot.
@@ViriSFM I remember readding somewhere that steven said he did not want to do a sequel but that was after i saw it and was dissaponted.
One of the inconsitencys I hate the most is when arcee tells bumblebee "we cant just go in and take it bee, the humans will hunt us down." who ever wrote that scene in did not even watch the last film, where in the beginning of the film whe wast hunted by S7 and even had a harpoon shot in his collar.
I think what steven meant by its a reboot is its not a soft reboot from prior films and bumblebee but instead its a full reboot. then why use a bastardized version of prime and bumblebees models instead of making a new one IDK. I mean you had $200M. I was disaponted beacuse it wasn't what I was expecting. But besides that as a standalone film id put rotb in 4.
i think the worst thing about the transformers fanbase is that they make me defend the bay movies
The cybertron scene has no backstory,barely any context as to why they’re fighting this is the greatest example of thinking nostalgia is good writing on its own the cybertron battle in transformers 3 blows this out of the park we know what is happening and why it’s happening but with the bumblebee movie we have to use head canon
Sure, Michael Bay wasn't a fan of Transformers when he started, but just because a director is a fan of the property the movie is about, doesn't mean you're going to get a good Transformers movie. Being a fan means you'll struggle with what to put in a movie vs what not to. Do you put in references to episodes of a tv show, reference a character, which characters DO appear in the movie and what do they do? I liked Rise of the Beasts, but let's be honest, that movie forced Beast Wars in when it really didn't have any bearing on the plot, two out of the four BW characters barely spoke despite such a small cast, we could've had more Autobots and Decepticons, and everything that got deleted would've made the movie much better.
And of course there's the whole Wheeljack controversy as well. Keep in mind I don't care if a character has a different design in a new iteration, but they went to the trouble of keeping Optimus and Bumblebee the same, but changed everyone else. Transformers isn't about keeping everything the same or keeping it "G1". Not everything needs to go back to G1, it really doesn't.
its really interesting that you pointed out the nostalgia reference in movies thing, because i absolutely agree that it doesn't change the quality
however i cant deny i love when it does that because it feels passionate for the source material, and its a shame people out there assume everyone likes the movie only for references (not that im saying thats what you're saying ofc)
references are fun and awesome to see but they're just a bonus to the movie for me, if sonic 2 or bumblebee lacked those big easter eggs and fanservice moments id still love the movie, but in certain instances they can definitely enhance a scene for me
It’s a franchise about robots turning into vehicles. The gimmick of Transformers as a franchise is literally thing changing and yet a large amount of fans berate and automatically host disdain for anything too different from whatever version is that given person’s favourite.
What I’m trying to say is I like series with love put into them, especially the first three live action movies.
To add to a point that you made, I think that the Bayverse comics publsihed by IDW have the best mix of bringing back old concepts and ideas but doing their own unique take on them while also fleshing out elements that the movies lacked such as explaining why Optimus progressively got more aggressive and bloodthirsty due to the massacres and chaos that Shockwave orchestrated in the former NEST base and in urban areas, the decline into madness and dictatorship that Megatron went through because of political issues and the eventual influence of The Fallen, and even doing an entirety different and strange take on Fortress Maximus as a man-made mobile fortress designed as part of a plan to wipe out the Transformers while also keeping his G1 counterpart's dislike for conflict and war.
I’ve only somewhat recently gotten into reading a lot of the comics, so I’ll need to check out the Bayverse ones. I’ll put those on my list since it sounds cool from how you and others have described it
In terms of designs, I think Age of Extinction was the first Transformers movie I saw, and I loved it, I didn’t really understand who any of the characters were or what was going on, but I still had fun watching. At the very least, in terms of characters, I knew OF Optimus and Megatron, but that was about it.
In fact, when I saw Bumblebee, and specifically this scene, I was again confused because I didn’t really recognize anyone in the scene, especially the deceptcons who G1 fans were SUPPOSED to recognize. When it comes to the G1 designs, I personally think most of them are pretty silly, even in animation. Soundwave Shockwave and Starscream didn’t look BAD in Bumblebee, but even watching it for the first time, I thought they looked too much like toys over robots.
In a weird way, it reminds me of how the designs in My Little Pony (another hazbro property, funnily enough) evolved over time. The way I understand it, the first three generations of mlp were basically told to just take the toy designs, as they were, and animate them, which resulted in a lot of awkward movements and limited expressions. Then with G4, the ponies were specifically DESIGNED to make animation and expressions EASIER, and G5 (as criminally short as it was) took yet another design approach, making the ponies 3D and giving them more realistic proportions. In mlp the references to previous generations, weather it be G4 referencing G1 or G5 referencing G4, it was rarely any more than just that, a reference, something for the older fans to notice and not much else. The biggest exceptions that I’m aware of being legacy characters like Tirek and Grogar, the former of which was actually given a backstory and characterization, and the latter being the most elaborate red-hearing ever.
From what I’ve seen, it seems like Transformers is doing something similar, but backwards, to use a few memes as references, the evolution of MLP’s designs seems to be “so glad I grew up with this, but damn this is better” whereas Transformers is more so “this is brilliant, but I *like* this”
Not gonna lie the cybertron scene was great, the only thing missing was megatron. I know they had reasons as to why he wasn’t in the scene but it’s still not gonna change the fact it felt off without him.
Just saw this pop up in my recommended, I love your writing and editing style dude keep it up.
I will admit Transformers Armada is where i entered Transformers
You cooked with this video! Finally more sensible Transformers fans are being seen by the algorithm! :) And yes, a lot of Transformers UA-camrs just say what the "community expects to hear" rather than their individual opinion cause for most of them this is their main source of income. The fact that you had to even label your video as a "hot take" is everything wrong with this community.
Really good video as someone who really enjoys this scene i wish the rest of the movie got as much praise as this scene often gets.
I think the BB opening sequence make sense when you consider Optimus’ character arc in ROTB. He blames himself for stranding the autobots on earth because he had to make a last minute decision to evacuate. There was no time to to stop and think, all they could do was run the second the rest of the decepticons showed up. Though I do agree the scene could’ve been longer to flow more, you also have to consider the budget as a factor. The opening was changed last minute too.
It's just fan service, its nothing.
Dotm's cybertron IS Transformers done right: Vast, alien, mysterious and filled with violence and unknown technology.
BB's cybertron is not alien at all, its just literally a car similar to earth and each character is just for a soyface point.
The characters are literally just empty every time I see a figure from the bumblebee movie I think to myself, this is literally just a toy
Because they represent literally nothing. It's immature. It's just fan service. The Cybertronians in DOTM worked in a mature and professional writing level to represent what aliens are, and aren't meant for selling plastic
@@alobaymar what I like about the bayverse is that in the first three movies is that transformers looked and acted alien. It helps makes them interesting. I prefer they don't make them overly human in the movies.
THANK YOU!
something that REALLY bugs me about the cybertron scene, is just how illogical it is. optimus gives bee his mission like it was a meeting, but they were only talking because bee didn't get into his pod when told to, so like, wtf was the plan if he just listened?
So, the lesson I learn from this video is built something on top of the reference, don't reference just for nostalgia or style, or referencing Iron-man from Home Coming "If there nothing without the reference then you shouldn't do it"
I think Viri hit the nail on the head: G1 nostalgia does not make a movie "Good" or "Bad". Story does.
Bayformers started out with great visual components and well crafted combat that could help to tell the story in several large-scale or smaller-scale action sequences that fit together with scenes to create a cohesive plot. These kind of fell off by the 3rd movie, but that's how it started.
Bumblebee and RotB started off with nostalgia at its core and left military strategy on the backburner.
G1 is, first and foremost, a story about WAR. War had ravaged their homeland and turned them from standard citizens into hardened soldiers and savage warriors. Tactical maneuvers, loss, retreats and victories, even death were all factors in Transformers G1. Bay managed to include these elements into the story of the movies through the soldiers in the original 2007 film. It started off with Blackout attacking the military base and the few survivors managing to get away(Loss and Retreat), being stalked by Scorponok and having to call in the air force as back up(tactics and victories), and ended up with an escape sequence leading to a final showdown in the city(featured death on both sides).
Bay got the attributes of war right in the first movie, but he chose to focus on that element instead of the nostalgia factor, opting to include the transformers themselves with designs that helped to strengthen the narrative. Does this help the movie? Yes. Did that same level of polish carry on into the later films? Debatable. Does Bumblebee's first scene have this same trait? No, not really.
TL;DR: Bayformers was about WAR like G1 was, while Bumblebee put that attribute on the backburner to appeal to the nostalgia factor.
Nostalgia=one hell strong drug. And transformers fans are super junkies!
Ironically, I was late to my showtime when Bumblebee came out, and I missed the opening Cybertron scene. Later on, when I rewatched the film, I finally watched the opening, and it added nothing new to the film in any possible way. The scene itself was just nostalgia/fan service, but served no purpose to the story. The movie could just start with Bumblebee arriving to Earth and encountering John Cena, and nothing changes.
You know what makes this Bumblebee movie opening even dumber in 2024?
- Minor spoilers (even though the trailer showed it): In Transformers One, Optimus Prime fought Megatron, StarScream, Soundwave, and Shockwave, ALL BY HIMSELF!!!
But in the Bumblebee Movie, Optimus cowers when he sees Soundwave, StarScream, and Shockwave, then tells his Autobots to fall back, and that Cybertron has fallen?
And fans wanna claim these movies are connected?
I will always be nostalgic over Transformers Prime's Megatron
I always loved Starscream's design in the War For Cybertron games as well as his TFP design.
For TFP, the way he was built gave him a sense of being unique compared to his many other generations and it genuinely does speak to his character and personality traits in my opinion
Cue "Imagine watching a Transformers movie for the plot" defense.
I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on the skybound transformers comic series. It’s G1 aesthetic with Bay-level intense action that actually has interesting characters and arcs.
If I were to make my own video of ‘Transformers Done Right’, it would be Skybound. I’ve been very happy with it thus far, and I think it manages to nail every aspect. For a while I held off on it since I’m always skeptical of new media being overhyped, but this is a case where I think the praise is very well deserved. I likely will do a video more broadly praising it at some point, however I’ve got three or four videos already in the pipeline that will come first, so we’ll see
I liked Bumblebee, but more for the emotional bond between Charlie and Bee than the opening 10 minutes
It's nice to know that I ain't the only one who thinks this brand is being held back by an old-ass cartoon barely anyone watches these days lol
(Not saying G1 is a bad show ofc, it's a product of its time and a fun watch on occasion).
Being slavish to nostalgia seems to be an issue MANY pop-culture franchises suffer from (Star Trek, Star Wars, most 80's toy brands etc.).
It's pretty obvious why tho; nostalgia has the potential of making billions since some Gen X goobers tend to mindlessly eat that shit up regardless of the inherent quality (or lack thereof lmao) which is why we're stuck in this cultural ouroboros of sequels and remakes.
In my opinion the opening scene is captured what many people like about transformers. The action is actually pleasing to the eyes you can tell who is who just by seeing or hearing their voice, the battle that we jump into is obviously for Cybertron which makes sense to why they had to abandon Cybertron find a place to regroup with other Autobots.
The bav take on the transformers work really what anyone wanted for the transformer movies because there were really a story to be told. They were just have action scenes hot girl annoying human characters. Hell i couldn't even tell you who the Autobots were just buy the design
I still maintain I did not care for bumblebee and preferred the bay movies to it. It's opening scene was fun fan service that could have just been a short video own like an action cutscene in a game.
ua-cam.com/video/IMa57_itILY/v-deo.htmlsi=jMOBWXyzii66HkXr
People like me who havent watch G1 doesnt even get references, for me Transformers Prime is nostalgia, i watched Prime series when it came from tv and i was just a kid, i dont know G1 at all
You're a good example of why G1 nostalgia does not automatically distill quality. We all have our own reference points for nostalgia in a franchise with so many iterations.
You give good points to debate the Cybertron scene, subscribed
Its funny the part of the video that says "the characters must have key details of their original designs" I really don't see it necessary because Transformers was always a very changing franchise in its designs, for example look at the cliffjumper from tf energon or cyclonus from armada, the truth is very noticeable that people only like the scene out of nostalgia to see the designs and references and read the rest of the movie it doesn't matter, because always when talking about the bumblebee movie the conversation is always goes to the Cybertron scene
Agreed. Part of why I like Transformers as a franchise so much is that each iteration is free to experiment and try new things, both writing wise and aesthetically. I think callbacks and references are healthy, however I want to push back against the "it's good because it's a reference" mentality
i also feel what made bumblebee so meh for me was the music. steve jablonskys score is just amazing and is just apart of transformers more then you think.
The number one problem above all else I don't see talked enough about the Bayformers is the lack of characters. Development, interaction, you name it. Every one of those autobots and decepticons are interchangeable with each other. What does Bumblebee think of Ratchet? How did other Autobots feel about Sentinel's betrayal? Why didn't Bee mention Sam in TLK? These core components of a functional story are totally absent in the Bay movies and it's why I think people don't like them and may not realize it. Marvel movies are action nonsense but have extremely charismatic actors in the lead with compelling stories.
OT Bayverse is a SOLID trilogy imo. Not perfect and definitely has its flaws, but solid and way over hated. AoE is decent, it tires to do way too much but has a lot of interesting ideas, TLK is the same but way worse. Definitely the worst of the Bayverse IMO. Beewun and ROTB also have a ton of problems that people ignore simply because "It's not directed by Bay." and that's disingenuous. I enjoy all the TF live action films in their own way, but the unfair comparisons to the Bayverse are definitely hypocritical.
We need to stray away from G1, it's stifling creativity and uniqueness.
Also, MoS is a solid film too imo
3:53 I believe he’s referencing how with this cybertron design again we can see more and tell the planet apart. We can see their architecture and buildings and the battle zones as it is all damage but still have some life to it. Whereas the bayformers cybertron had just a hexagon design to it and we really couldn’t any buildings or pieces like so on the planet. Just a very simplistic design of cybertron
Entirely agree. I personally grew up watching the Bay Films, Cybertron, and some other media with designs unlike G1. Those are *MY* nostalgia. What makes mine any different from someone else's? Because it didn't come first?
We definitely need to branch out from the G1 designs more. G1 is neat and all, but it's everywhere at this point. And just because it was first doesn't mean we have to keep piggybacking off of it. Like, why not have Prime be something other than a truck? Old doesn't and shouldn't mean something is good. The quality of it matters.
To dismiss all the action in the Bayfilms as messy is largely discrediting them. Plenty of them have excellent action that's very easy to follow. Personally, I don't see where the "I can tell who's who" argument comes from. It's very easy to look at the screen and know who's who in my eyes.
As for designs? Some are eh, most are excellent. I wanna highlight Starscream who gets a lot of crap because he "Doesn't look like he turns into anything". As much as people make fun of his Dorito shape body, that's a large part of why it works. Take away his limbs and head and he's basically already a jet. He works super well when someone isn't screaming in your ear that he sucks.
Optimus turning into a firetruck (edit: 2001RID or Animated) instead of a regular trailer-hauling truck is one of the neat changes I've seen. He's still a truck, but with a definitive variation from the never ending number of Truck Primes
What the fuck that scene literally the reason why transformers fans got there ass outta the dungeon to see the movie
oh really? No wonder nobody watch the movie in cinema
@@lesterantenor1026 I did. And it was the best movie I saw that year. And the theatre I was in was packed too, with both adults and kids. And they all loved that scene.
@@lesterantenor1026 one reason is because of the failure of the last knight if that movie didn't fail bumblebee movie would've succeeded
@@darrenbent7601 good for you
Yeah and thats literally the issue
Gotta say, I really like this video and your presentation. I liked the fanservice of the opening scene too but way too many fans (whether it be hardcore 80s Geewunners or harsh critics of the Bayverse) just…turn a blind eye to the style over substance approach.
Like, Cam claiming there’s character development in this scene and acting like visual references are equal to good writing just grated on me. It’s also weird how he acts like the G1 designs are what made the scene great when he’s praised various non-G1 versions of the show before.
I think this scene is so beloved by fans who only watch movies through clips uploaded to UA-cam. That’s how I got drawn into watching the full movie eventually
I guess one reason why there isn't much story in the opening scene was because it was originally not supposed to be in the movie and was only added in a couple months before the movie was released. It's not a good excuse but it is one.
I feel like I heard that somewhere but didn't want to focus on that since the scene should stand on it's own regardless. That would explain a lot though. I do remember an article about how Peter Cullen got shafted a bit during production because they essentially had him dub over someone else who had already done the lines, so he was forced to match the animation that was already done
@@ViriSFMI believe there's a clip of him talking about that at a con.
And if I remember correctly, Liam Neeson was considered for the 2007 movie. But it didn't happen since Peter Cullen came back.
I could be wrong on that last one
Thank god someone else finally said it 😭😭😭😭
Anyway that opening is fire
14:49 - 15:25 THIS!!! I knew something was familiar.
Most Bees have a black strip and speaking troubles which isn’t G1. Some of my favourite designs are from the 2000s which are nothing like anything but them selves. I even like some of the Bay designs, I love G1 but that doesn’t mean I want everything to be G1 because then I wouldn’t have 2001 or beast wars or the Unicron trilogy or animated or Prime or some of the comics and universe figures.
Hot take: I don't think we've had a single bad live action Transformers movie
Bumblebee? ROTB?? TLK???
@@2gullyy all above average. I've seen bad movies, and those ain't it. Most recently, I watched Gappa: the Triphibian Monster... Now that is shit. Lol
The Last Knight is the worst Transformers movie, but that's only due to a bad studio mandated final edit. Even then, I'd probably give it like a 5.5 or a 6 out of 10, which isn't a bad movie to me, just a sloppy one. But to each their own
Like Bumblebee is bad ? Okay if you want
@@2gullyyhow is bumblebee bad? It has good characters and is wholesome(dropkick’s death did not happen), rotb is debatable, and tlk is ASS but you could like it
@@mattryan1999 honestly i think with last knight its just bay again like when he tried to say the writing strike was the real problem, and, while it was a factor, it took up ten percent of a problem that was otherwise 100 percent bay, im not saying this is what happened, im just saying my take
Glad to see someone else talk about how coordinated the military were in Bayformers. No other blockbuster has lived up to that action for me.
I would just be happy if they did a trilogy that is G1 design and follows the same landing on earth. Humans against all bots till they learn the Autobot are trying to help. Outside of that plenty of room to surprise us.
One thing about the bay transformer movies is that he literally just let the military do their thing
While I'm not in the camp of fans that go "[ *insert transformers project here* ] is Transformers Done Right", I can nonetheless say TF: One is a worthy addition to this franchise that truly represents why it's still going to this day. With Bumblebee, as this video (and even by extension Cam's) shows, my one critique of the movie which isn't even all on the movie but rather that darn Cybertron scene.
And while I'm already starting to see some takeaway the wrong lessons from One I at least feel like there's more being discussed than aforementioned one scene in a movie that's apparently doing a franchise right. Hopefully whenever you come back you discuss your thoughts on TF: One; very curious to see what things we agree and disagree on.
Very much agree - I was very happy and pleasantly surprised with TF One. I just put out a video on the marketing which includes some of my general thoughts, but I’ll save a full review / discussion for when the movie releases digitally.
I didn’t mind the opening of the Bumblebee movie, though I did wish Megatron was kept in that opening, tearing Autobots with some lines for Megatron, Ironhide, and Starscream being these
Ironhide: Don’t give up my comrades!
Megatron: I AM MEGATRON!!!
Starscream: Die, Autobots!
They should have used the earth based intro scene where Bee was hiding from the humans all damaged saying “its not worth protecting them”
With a tinge of rewriting you could probably make that work. I think it would add to the mystery of the Transformers more. You could slowly reveal some bits of Cybertron through flashbacks like what happened with the Ravage scene in the middle of the film.
@@ViriSFM thats what i was thinking, the holograms of Optimus were done so well i wish them and his small flash-backs when he was in the pod would have been enough.
I like both the Micheal Bay films and the Bumblebee movie, just not Rotb, it felt like a low-effort version of a Micheal Bay movie, it ruined the point of rebooting the series since they just went back to the same thing, and was even moredisappointing because it's lost the charm of Micheal bay.
I hope that sentence made sense
It makes even more sense when you realize that the Cybertron opening wasn’t supposed to be in the original cut of this movie. It was actually supposed to lead into the ‘07 film. i
If you look into the tie-in comic made for the video release of Bumblebee you can see that it revolves around Simmons, Benachek and “The IceMan” which; as we all know; are ideas and characters from the first film.
Any scenes with Optimus on earth were also not part of the original cut either.
Me who wants to see robots fight either in the front line in domination or desperation: Gets only 1 minute of small battles and ends there
Crying my self to sleep knowing i may not get what i want for years to come
I can agree with you 100% especially towards the end of the video here like if you stick to the same stuff all you're doing is just making the same thing in just a different quality there's nothing wrong with sticking to the storyline but change it up a bit add some different designs add a little bit here and there to the storyline there is nothing wrong with change
I honestly believe the transformers fandom is borderline delusional transformers as a franchise as a brand literally has to change to stay alive and I don’t understand how so called real fans don’t understand this. Judge and criticize new incarnation of transformers on its own without having a geewunner mentality
Character and character development>>>>
I got introduced to transformers 15 years ago through the bayverse movies and I loved them, and I still like them personally. Then Transformers prime and a few other shows. I tried to enjoy G1 but it was difficult for me to enjoy, though I do keep trying to watch it through.
Honestly, because I can't bring myself to care about scifi politics/who beat who in what year and who is winning what war in any scifi media (star wars, transformers, star trek etc) and I'm more into the characters and their interactions, crossing species barriers and caring about a home away from home etc., I feel like I'm in such a small portion of the fan base and what I'm here for LOL.
If I were to make a show, I'd focus on character growth and change. For example, I'd probably do post-war, and write an environment where the autobots are trying to adjust from their war mindset and feeling almost lost without the war in this admittedly, still new environment. I'd keep cybertron dead because the planet's core itself died and I think reviving is too relied upon in the transformers media tbh. To keep something in effect and have to adapt is one of the hardest things to do in life but it can be more bearable when not alone. When cybertron is able to be revived, I feel like it makes the war lose a lot of its weight. To have a permanently dead cybertron and force the cybertronians to learn how to bloom in a new environment is really something that holds a lot of potential I think.
So, I'd have the cybertronians take time to reflect on who was lost, what was lost, and grapple with their existence and what they think their reason for existing is in this new environment. Optimus primarily, he's been fighting for so long and wishing for peace for so long that when peace comes, he will have to go through some trials to adapt to this life. I'd keep in note the stories of peaceful veterans like Bob Ross and other veterans to keep respectfully in mind, their journey acclimating from war into a 'civilian' life. Optimus getting in touch with his Orion side again, learning to be an individual.
Some bots would take the end of the war better than others. Bee would probably do well, he's always held his connections to a very high value. Soundwave would also be a very interesting character to detail with what he does post war. I've lived around veterans and soldiers all my life and the way they handle things is so different amongst each and every individual.
I know not a lot of people would probably particularly enjoy this, but I really want a show that focuses less on the bad guy or the bad thing of the week until the ultimate bad guy pops up, and more on the overarching journey of the characters as they learn to live with what has changed as they learn to be patient with themselves, rediscovering life post war.
I’m someone who grew up with the bay movies,TFA and TFP and a bit of rescue bots, I’m open minded to new takes of transformers and honestly in my opinion the live action reboot is complete trash they had the blue print take the positives from the bayverse and leave out the negatives, infuse the positives with new fresh story’s but instead we got nostalgia bait,lazy reused story’s and character arcs,and they kept a lot of the negatives of the bayverse while also bringing in new negatives to the table simultaneously. Nostalgia should also flow with the story not take away from it like a sore thumb Optimus turning into a flat nose in tf4 and optimus doing his iconic air flip in Revenge of the fallen is a good example of nostalgia being implemented well
Tbh, as a long time Transformer fan (Thanks to my dad who happened to watch Transformers from when G1 started and until the Rise of the Beast) I really enjoyed Bayverse. Did it match the other series? No Were there any missing or extra items? Yes but Bayverse also Created itself a different universe with Comics that let us learn what happened behind the scenes or extras. Also I think a lot of people is missing something about Bayverse: They were in Allianed (I hope I wrote it right) Contunity. Meaning that even though Micheal Bay was the producer a lot of things were handled by Hasbro. Like Adding Ironhide in Bayverse but not TFP because it might be confusing for younger audince or setting a different desings that can be used all of the contunities that were going on that time (Books, Comics, Games, Cartoons and Films).
I'm not saying Michael Bay is the best producer but people need to realise if Hasbro wants something to he added or removed producers have to do it. Also if I know right one of the reason why Bayverse was cancelled is beacuse Hasbro didn't make the profit that they were excepting with last two movies.
When it comes to Bumblebee movie.
Movie is great so is Rise of the beast but... For a series that promise and promotes that they would be more Cybertron/Transformers centered they have very less action and explanation but Transformers and more of a human scene. Like I get it, there has to be human and Bayverse also had a lot of human in the movies but... I think it's a bit... too much. When I was watching Bumblebee Movie for the first time I sadly couldn't watch it on cinema but from my tv. And I was confused why we were focus that girl (Charlie) who hates her parents and wants to her old life back. Like How???
Some people might think that it could be necessary for that film to work but for me. An opening scene where we supposed to see how things started being as long as her taking some kind of revenege from the people who bullied for was kind of weird.
However, while both movies have their own good and bad aspects, it is absurd to criticize the other series just because we liked one movie more. I meeeaaan. Transformers is just a good profit source for Hasbro and they treat it like that with soo many contunities. Why not just enjoy and have fun?
(Also if I bore anyone with my long speech sorry for that! Following Transformers from almost 15 years as a young person and having English as second language can couse troubles like this ^^")
I mean to me Bayverse is nostalgic now im not saying its the best. But its what i grew up with im 18 and when Transformers 2007 came out i was 2 years old i grew up with the bayverse movies, transformers animated and transformers prime. Everyone will have their own nostalgia not everything has to be pointed to G1 because as nostalgia
“Your argument… is logical”
All jokes aside, over the years I’ve been increasingly leaning towards this take too. A lot of people’s defense for this scene really boils down to “it looks cool/right” because of designs matching and such. Although much like with criticisms of the Bay films, the designs being a certain way is not the reason those movies are bad, it’s because of the awful writing, unbearable and unlikeable characters, Transformers that lack depth or development or even sometimes basic characterization, etc. And here there is no talk about the rushed pacing, frantic editing that moves a bit too quick, the very awkward cinematography and camera movement throughout the scene, and the points you elaborated on in the video. I’m glad more people are talking about it, because while this scene is fun to watch and generally a nice love letter, it’s not as transcendent as some people would suggest.
Also big props to you mentioning Andor in this video, that show is peak
As someone who has no G1 nostalgia I still though Bumblebee was a good movie, got me hyped for what was to come
Style over substance? In a kids toy commercial? Say it isn't so.
They aren't making Citizen Kane. Could they do a deep, complex Transformers storyline? Maybe make Megatron more sympathetic and give the Autobots nuanced motives? How many toys do you figure that would sell? Like Disney's CEO said, our job is not to make art, it's to make money. In the process of making money they may incidentally make art, but the poinr is to make money.
If you are a transformers fan, get used to style over substance.
I think its possible to pull off substance over style, (ex: IDW comics) but to make a thought-provoking story within a film's runtime is difficult. After all, people came to see giant robots crash metallic parts into each other for about an hour or two. Not be given a philosophy lesson. Doesn't mean it's not worth giving it a try for a movie, but there are plenty other mediums more suitable for substance-focused TF content
19:00 I don't mind so much that Bumblebee's Blitzwing doesn't lok like G1 Blizwing. What I care about it that he looked too much like Star Scream. They could have at least gotten the colors right.
I still love the actual Bumblebee movie itself lol
I agree with all the points you made in this video especially with the fact that their feels like there is no strategy in the first part of the film it's not long enough and that's why I liked Bay movie so much they're not all that good but seeing the communication between the Autobots and the humans and the humans between themselves that's what I liked about those movies and G1 I think we can step away from G1 and still keep some like references to it like you said but maybe entirely try and bass everything off of G1 or the designs or anything like that I think it's time for something new with Transformers it's 40 years old
So you agree with an idiot?
Is this a cool concept? Shockwave making a device that turns humans into cybertrinian and gives them memory loss so they don’t remember who they are?
Hmm, you could definitely make that idea work, yet it could go either way depending on who writes it and the tone. That’s something that I think could slot into G1 or Animated, but if you tried that in a live action movie I could see it getting weird.