Great overview. Now with all this info used as a foundation, I’d love to learn more about (and see a gameplay example) of "speed tanking" using a high speed, higher tier frigate (slasher II or condor II) using speed to avoid getting hit.
I really appreciate your videos! There aren't very many tutorials or information on eve echoes! However, I do have one small critique that might help some users watch your videos easier. Your videos are really quiet. I think it would help if you boosted the volume on them. Thanks and keep up the good work!
About decomposers, the issue they have is that they have no falloff range, so if you get 1 singular meter outside of your optimal, you do zero damage, its pretty similar to missiles flight range but there´s no damage application delay nor explosions.
9:33 Alpha Damage is very important with the current balancing of warp stab (even more so on mining ships). If you want to take down a venture you might only get one volley. If your thinking of being a pirate this is a big issue given the cost of Warp Stab vs Warp Jammers on EVE Echoes (Which I find crazy cause Warp Jammers were super cheap on EO) 27:50 One drawback of drones isnt in EVE Echoes yet which is EWAR. Drones are very weak versus the Burst Jammer in Eve Online. Is around a burst jam EWAR then fully expect a chunk of them to be out of commission. Also the Griffin EWAR Frig can make your life hell as a drone boat, constantly either breaking your locks or your drone's locks.
@@Excoundrel well also in EO you can manufacture them. it seems like EE manufacturing is only targets around ship creation and base building. The lack of BPOs might also play a part in this too
High slot/weapons: Medium pulse laser Mid: Any drone you can afford. Maybe a stasis webifier Low: Medium armor repairer Damage control modual Heat sink. This improves laser dps.
It was my understanding that anything in your optimal range is 100% chance to hit a stationary target. If your optimal range is 10km and falloff is 5 then from 0 to 10km you have a 100% chance to hit and not just 100% at 10km and 50% chance at 5km and 15km.
Great guide! I am looking at a Moa and making a shield tank... but it has rails not missles for a caldari. My first test rat encounter had lots of mussed shots vs my caracal trainer. Is it just about staying right at optimal range? What rigs should i be looking at to to make it more effective? Also webifier vs capacitor drainers.... or what else should go in the mid slot? The optimal range of my mid slot not matching with my high slot... any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated!
I’m assuming you’ve already figured this out, as your post was two days ago. But in terms of my Caracal Trainer, I’ve got the the two rigs that extend missile range and I’m using the medium missile guidance computer in my low slot to extend range even more (and tightens missile explosions for better damage). This extends my range to around 43km with medium missiles and 29km with medium rapid missiles. You can then use medium rapid missiles for T5 and even T6 encounters, if you kite properly. And use the longer range of mediums missiles for T7 encounters. Definitely take an afterburner and shield booster in low slot, as you’ll need them. Mid slot is stasis web and nosferatu which you use when a frigate pushes in on you too aggressively (I’ve had elite frigates do so in T7 encounters). When these aggressive frigates get within 20k and are separated from others, rush them with afterburners and then shut them down with both mids, nuking them and boosting your capacity back up in the process. Then go back to kiting remaining heavier ships.
It's easy to kill medium drones? Im scare of building a Vexor Navy and loose a PvP if the enemy take down my drones.. Now im thinking on building a Moa or Maller uhmm
According to Eve wiki and from when i played Eve online, you do 100% dmg to a ship if it is stationary from any range within the optimal range, the accuracy falloff penalty applies only when the target is further away than the optimal range. FX if your optimal range is 20km and accuracy falloff is 5km then you will lower your chance of hitting a ship by 50% if it is at 25km range from you but if it is at 10km range from you then you will hit it 100%. Just because you said that players need to be exactly on the optimal range to hit 100% which is impossible in a fight with all ships moving and most using an afterburner.
So to put this in an FPS context, missiles and drones are for sniping, auto and lasers are like shotguns and everything else is general purpose mid-range like an Assault Rifle? That suggests a fast ship like the Condor II would be better suited to missiles than cannons?
Do decomposers benefit from laser skills and from the -10% capacitor cost that most amarr ships provide? Basically do they count as lasers (that deal with armour instead of shields) or are they a completely different weapon set, with it's own unique skills?
I subbed so I could save puppies! haha ... no really, this is my fifth video I watched from you, so I thought it was time. Great content sir! We should be in an alliance on there!
Just a small suggestion. Some people are visual people so when comparing two different things, could you have both up side by side to see the difference? That's a lot more work for you but I figured I'd ask. Could do you a video on target painting?
Im not mad at all that you killed my thorax... i just didn’t imagine you having alot of points in frigates as a youtuber while i tick down on mastering cruiser.
I can already hear the sobbing of EvE Online vets, complaining about how now they are losing whatever new players the game had. Oh those sweet sweet tears.
I strted eve echoes in beta as caldarri n drones n rail guns, 4months later just before beta finished i tried pvp, It was fun but 1v1 scenarios Thorax n rail guns was better for ratting-anomalies and never pvp for 1v1, Soon as somwone closes in on you n your done in most cases, Missiles is a good all rounder but anyone that was good in beta knows what Nina did as Amarr and with a phantasm class ship, absolutely destroying anyone who tried to fight her, I never found out what she used but im sure it was beams or the other ones, Pulse is great if you got tanky ship, Not much can stand up to a pulse engagement at mid-close range.
P.S i got jumped by 2 caracals and a, i forget the name but its. t6 frigate, maybe the succubus, But the 2 caracals fired salvos at me and even though i respondedbvery slowly due to getting attacked while eating, I destroyed 1 caracal in two salvos of ritual pulse lasers on my navy omen, Could have warped away but was too focused on my food n had enough resources to make another couple navy omens, You get two omens against a navy caracal n it will be destroyed in one salvo from each ship lol.
conclusions, if you are a Missile Cruiser/battlecruiser in 0.0 , you are an easy target for a speed tanked interceptor/assault frig with(railguns/autocannons) on the other hand if you are armed with Railguns/autocannons you are sort of prepared and balanced for anything
Great video you earned yourself a sub! I am having a hard time with this though does echoes still fallow the same profile and Eve does because if that's true you'd never use lasers against Guristas you'd go for kinetic damage. You could get away with thermal but not by much. So does echoes go about it differently?
22:50 You also mentioned you use medium rapid missiles now but in your previous caracal trainer video you said you preferred the regular medium missiles with longer range. What changed your mind? Or are you just shield tanking up close more and thus the medium rapid missiles are more viable?
You've neglected the damage scale of turrets/drones. Depending on tracking a turret deals anywhere between 50% to 149% damage on a hit and has a 0.01% chance of missing entirely and getting a critical hit dealing 300% damage. A pilot with good skills and great tracking will deal a lot more damage than the paper damage on a weapon, tracking optimal range and falloff play a massive role on this damage profile. This applies to drones too.
So will a turrent weapon upgrade help the damage of drones? I jus got a dragooon so I'm barely using drones :/trying to farm money quick as possible I wanna get a cruiser or sum bigger yk
What about the fitting of the beta with 2x Nosferatu and 2x shieldbooster and the rapid missle? Does this still work, looked like that way was much faster compared to kiting.
Hi guys any proper nullsec alliances i can join? Experienced eve online player, new to echoes. My current corp is way to disorganised to work in null for me.
i am running 4 MK5 med. rapid fire missile launchers, 2 MK5 shield boosters, 1 MK5 Nosferatu.... when i try the shield tank...my capacitor drains so quickly. I cannot keep both boosters running for any length of time at all. I am 8-10 km from the enemy i am attacking as well. .. does that second Nosferatu make the difference?
Is there anything wrong with outfitting lets say the Omen with missiles? I know lasers are its default weapon.... I ask this because that ship for example has a faster speed and high base capacitor.... you might not get the missile bonus with it like you do with the Caracal but you do get other perks.... just a thought...
So far it seems Decomposers have REALLY good Alpha AND DPS, but no falloff range - your optimal range is literally your maximum range, can't shoot past it.
If you are moving away from the target or the target is moving away from you your range will be shorter, also missiles do that funny little curve as they launch which eats into your missile flight time and isn't calculated in the range displayed.
plot twist, they're awesome in PVE(because of range, keep enemies at a distance, mediums are still crap against frigs though) and sort of OK in pvp, worse tracking and less damage than close range railguns though, but some ships have good bonuses for long range anyway
@@Turanic1 yeah.. It's no good. You need to get smth over 1k+ on 36km Otherwise you ll taking a lots of damage. You may look at the NPC ships and decide where to go. It's probably Omen or the Stabber you want. Cause it's the real deal range.
I'm hoping that either you and/or Benzie will drill home the mantra "There is no BEST anything." into your subscribers' heads. I wish I knew from where the idea of "one thing to rule them all" originates (well, apart from the obvious Tolkein reference). It frustrates me. So I can't imagine how often you folks get hit up for "the secret of the BEST". In a phrase, "There is no 'there' there."
I love skinning puppies alive. Their precious yelps fuel my evil. ALL WHO LIVE SHALL BE MY PUPPIES! In all seriousness though, I don't hurt dogs. Anyone who hurts dogs regardless of age deserve the pain of endless torture that even the worst demons in hell would say is to much.
TIMESTAMPS:
[00:00] - Intro
[01:45] - Signature Radius and Flight Velocity (Why are they relevant?)
[04:43] - Damage Types, Optimal Range + Falloff, Tracking Speed
[08:30] - Alpha Damage
[09:20] - Lasers
[11:50] - Railguns
[14:45] - Cannons
[18:34] - Decomposers
[19:53] - Missiles
[26:00] - Drones
Great overview. Now with all this info used as a foundation, I’d love to learn more about (and see a gameplay example) of "speed tanking" using a high speed, higher tier frigate (slasher II or condor II) using speed to avoid getting hit.
yep I'm working on the skills for it - likely a video on friday :)
That high alpha of auto cannons led to my favorite fleet doctorine ever, the Cockbag Thrasher fleet
LOL
Cockbag? That's a new one. But as a Thrasher adjective, it works for me. Just something about those Thrashers...mm-mm good.
Just you and Benzie at the moment... You have different styles of delivery too which is nice.
Subbed since Vainglory days, still love your content and play the games you put in the channels! Keep up the great work)
ive always watch the capt but now i find it easier to listen to you somehow 😂
I think people just prefer different voices? I think the cap does great content though
Awesome when yall throw out shoutouts back and forth to help grow a community
You, Archon and Benzie are my 3 go to keep it up!
same
The dartboard analogy is a good one. Well done.
I really appreciate your videos! There aren't very many tutorials or information on eve echoes!
However, I do have one small critique that might help some users watch your videos easier.
Your videos are really quiet. I think it would help if you boosted the volume on them.
Thanks and keep up the good work!
About decomposers, the issue they have is that they have no falloff range, so if you get 1 singular meter outside of your optimal, you do zero damage, its pretty similar to missiles flight range but there´s no damage application delay nor explosions.
Using the to and the optimal seems broken. Mine says 13km but on other screens 4km. Hits hard between 10 and 13 though.
The explanation of misile damage has inspired me to test out a webifier/torpedo caracal with added explosion radius.
Been watching ur vids since VG, and its as amazing as always! These kind of vids r rly helpful, especially to help understanding mechanics of weapon!
Just what I wanted to hear about weapons thanks it was informative content ^~^
Was it I havent watched it yet?
The videos you make are great for learning the game. Thank you!
Got here from the for honor videos you made.. glad to see you on this game explaining stuff.
Hey man! Quality content here, thanks for this video! Subbed! Hope your channels grows :) I'm also following Captain Benzie
9:33 Alpha Damage is very important with the current balancing of warp stab (even more so on mining ships). If you want to take down a venture you might only get one volley. If your thinking of being a pirate this is a big issue given the cost of Warp Stab vs Warp Jammers on EVE Echoes (Which I find crazy cause Warp Jammers were super cheap on EO)
27:50 One drawback of drones isnt in EVE Echoes yet which is EWAR. Drones are very weak versus the Burst Jammer in Eve Online. Is around a burst jam EWAR then fully expect a chunk of them to be out of commission. Also the Griffin EWAR Frig can make your life hell as a drone boat, constantly either breaking your locks or your drone's locks.
They're surprisingly hard to farm right now
@@Excoundrel well also in EO you can manufacture them. it seems like EE manufacturing is only targets around ship creation and base building. The lack of BPOs might also play a part in this too
Hi 👋 what’s a good build for omen ship? I’m kinda lost & need help thanks.
High slot/weapons:
Medium pulse laser
Mid: Any drone you can afford. Maybe a stasis webifier
Low:
Medium armor repairer
Damage control modual
Heat sink. This improves laser dps.
It was my understanding that anything in your optimal range is 100% chance to hit a stationary target. If your optimal range is 10km and falloff is 5 then from 0 to 10km you have a 100% chance to hit and not just 100% at 10km and 50% chance at 5km and 15km.
Great guide! I am looking at a Moa and making a shield tank... but it has rails not missles for a caldari. My first test rat encounter had lots of mussed shots vs my caracal trainer. Is it just about staying right at optimal range? What rigs should i be looking at to to make it more effective? Also webifier vs capacitor drainers.... or what else should go in the mid slot? The optimal range of my mid slot not matching with my high slot... any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated!
I’m assuming you’ve already figured this out, as your post was two days ago. But in terms of my Caracal Trainer, I’ve got the the two rigs that extend missile range and I’m using the medium missile guidance computer in my low slot to extend range even more (and tightens missile explosions for better damage). This extends my range to around 43km with medium missiles and 29km with medium rapid missiles. You can then use medium rapid missiles for T5 and even T6 encounters, if you kite properly. And use the longer range of mediums missiles for T7 encounters. Definitely take an afterburner and shield booster in low slot, as you’ll need them. Mid slot is stasis web and nosferatu which you use when a frigate pushes in on you too aggressively (I’ve had elite frigates do so in T7 encounters). When these aggressive frigates get within 20k and are separated from others, rush them with afterburners and then shut them down with both mids, nuking them and boosting your capacity back up in the process. Then go back to kiting remaining heavier ships.
This video was very well done. Thanks a lot!
It's easy to kill medium drones? Im scare of building a Vexor Navy and loose a PvP if the enemy take down my drones..
Now im thinking on building a Moa or Maller uhmm
According to Eve wiki and from when i played Eve online, you do 100% dmg to a ship if it is stationary from any range within the optimal range, the accuracy falloff penalty applies only when the target is further away than the optimal range. FX if your optimal range is 20km and accuracy falloff is 5km then you will lower your chance of hitting a ship by 50% if it is at 25km range from you but if it is at 10km range from you then you will hit it 100%. Just because you said that players need to be exactly on the optimal range to hit 100% which is impossible in a fight with all ships moving and most using an afterburner.
So to put this in an FPS context, missiles and drones are for sniping, auto and lasers are like shotguns and everything else is general purpose mid-range like an Assault Rifle? That suggests a fast ship like the Condor II would be better suited to missiles than cannons?
Do decomposers benefit from laser skills and from the -10% capacitor cost that most amarr ships provide? Basically do they count as lasers (that deal with armour instead of shields) or are they a completely different weapon set, with it's own unique skills?
Interested to know this as well
No.they have their own skills in skill section and not benefit from amarr ships
I subbed so I could save puppies! haha ... no really, this is my fifth video I watched from you, so I thought it was time. Great content sir! We should be in an alliance on there!
Just a small suggestion. Some people are visual people so when comparing two different things, could you have both up side by side to see the difference? That's a lot more work for you but I figured I'd ask. Could do you a video on target painting?
Yeah I'll try in future vids 100%
Im not mad at all that you killed my thorax... i just didn’t imagine you having alot of points in frigates as a youtuber while i tick down on mastering cruiser.
I can already hear the sobbing of EvE Online vets, complaining about how now they are losing whatever new players the game had. Oh those sweet sweet tears.
Any suggestion with omen ?
i love ammar haha, beam or pulse and what fitting is the best for playing in encounter, thx
I to am running Omen and amarr if you don't have a corp you can join us!
I strted eve echoes in beta as caldarri n drones n rail guns, 4months later just before beta finished i tried pvp, It was fun but 1v1 scenarios Thorax n rail guns was better for ratting-anomalies and never pvp for 1v1, Soon as somwone closes in on you n your done in most cases, Missiles is a good all rounder but anyone that was good in beta knows what Nina did as Amarr and with a phantasm class ship, absolutely destroying anyone who tried to fight her, I never found out what she used but im sure it was beams or the other ones, Pulse is great if you got tanky ship, Not much can stand up to a pulse engagement at mid-close range.
P.S i got jumped by 2 caracals and a, i forget the name but its. t6 frigate, maybe the succubus, But the 2 caracals fired salvos at me and even though i respondedbvery slowly due to getting attacked while eating, I destroyed 1 caracal in two salvos of ritual pulse lasers on my navy omen, Could have warped away but was too focused on my food n had enough resources to make another couple navy omens, You get two omens against a navy caracal n it will be destroyed in one salvo from each ship lol.
conclusions, if you are a Missile Cruiser/battlecruiser in 0.0 , you are an easy target for a speed tanked interceptor/assault frig with(railguns/autocannons) on the other hand if you are armed with Railguns/autocannons you are sort of prepared and balanced for anything
Medium and large rails and cannons have a hard time tracking frigs
Great video you earned yourself a sub! I am having a hard time with this though does echoes still fallow the same profile and Eve does because if that's true you'd never use lasers against Guristas you'd go for kinetic damage. You could get away with thermal but not by much. So does echoes go about it differently?
I was told that resistances weren't a thing in echoes but someone has since told me differently. May cut thar bit out of the vid as I'm not sure on it
22:50 You also mentioned you use medium rapid missiles now but in your previous caracal trainer video you said you preferred the regular medium missiles with longer range. What changed your mind? Or are you just shield tanking up close more and thus the medium rapid missiles are more viable?
Depends what your farming higher tier anomalies you need medium missiles
Hi, I'd like do to fleet PvP. How to start? What should I learn?
You've neglected the damage scale of turrets/drones. Depending on tracking a turret deals anywhere between 50% to 149% damage on a hit and has a 0.01% chance of missing entirely and getting a critical hit dealing 300% damage. A pilot with good skills and great tracking will deal a lot more damage than the paper damage on a weapon, tracking optimal range and falloff play a massive role on this damage profile. This applies to drones too.
So will a turrent weapon upgrade help the damage of drones? I jus got a dragooon so I'm barely using drones :/trying to farm money quick as possible I wanna get a cruiser or sum bigger yk
@@boogiethekingtm5413 drones use an omni directional tracking link instead. But overall a target painter should be better now they're in the game.
I just became a scoundrel because you're awesome.
can you do a video about ships type what pros/cons they have and How do they differ from each other
So are lasers better for pvp purposes when players use more shield boosters?
hey, could you make a video on how best to fit out a nemesis for PvP or PvE please?
Can you mix weapon types on a fitting to compensate for failings of each?
I found your channel Via Capt Benzie
Can you mix and match weapon types ?
Good vids keep up the good work 👍
You can but not considered optimal
Thanks both, that’s what I guessed
What about the fitting of the beta with 2x Nosferatu and 2x shieldbooster and the rapid missle? Does this still work, looked like that way was much faster compared to kiting.
I use this mostly :)
Thanks for the information
It's a shame snubnosed small railguns are basically useless.
Meds are great tho.
hey. i have a corax trainer and 1.7 mil isk.. what should i do to level up and get a caracal and earn some money? im so lost into the game
Aim for a caracal and do level 4 anomalies for money
@@Excoundrel thank you.. I'm trying to get that done as well
What software do you use to run iOS on PC?
Capt. May i share this content to my friends in corp?, this is good information for newbro. I'll post the link there.
Absolutely
@@Excoundrel thx capt. o7
Im following the echoes radio station and sovereign. News and jams for my space road truckin
Hi guys any proper nullsec alliances i can join? Experienced eve online player, new to echoes. My current corp is way to disorganised to work in null for me.
In which Ships can fit those weapons with the Symbol and the Green or blue Background in the upper right Corner ? Greets from Germany
Any ship that uses that type :)
@@Excoundrel so theyr not for special ships, theyr just expensive ?
i am running 4 MK5 med. rapid fire missile launchers, 2 MK5 shield boosters, 1 MK5 Nosferatu.... when i try the shield tank...my capacitor drains so quickly. I cannot keep both boosters running for any length of time at all. I am 8-10 km from the enemy i am attacking as well. .. does that second Nosferatu make the difference?
Yep absolutely you can't double shield boost without the second nos for very long
@@Excoundrel headed to buy my second right now then lol
Is there anything wrong with outfitting lets say the Omen with missiles? I know lasers are its default weapon.... I ask this because that ship for example has a faster speed and high base capacitor.... you might not get the missile bonus with it like you do with the Caracal but you do get other perks.... just a thought...
So far it seems Decomposers have REALLY good Alpha AND DPS, but no falloff range - your optimal range is literally your maximum range, can't shoot past it.
Interesting. Thx for sharing this. I’ve yet to try them but looking forward to it, especially the large alpha.
boys help me out i have 30km range on missles i put orbit on 28km and my missles do 0 dmg in 50% of salvos:( its cap for small missles at 26-27 km ??
If you are moving away from the target or the target is moving away from you your range will be shorter, also missiles do that funny little curve as they launch which eats into your missile flight time and isn't calculated in the range displayed.
For the puppies!
Eve echoes is such a treat 🍭
Cheers like your chat
i don understand the alpha damage
still waiting for your amazing pirat map :D
Oh yeah!!
Why is the volume in this video so stupidly low.
you should be firing kinetic on guristas, not lasers btw
I don't know if they transfered over pirate resistances
I was told they didn't and now told they did
ammo- neverever or iaminevitable?
It will happen
Do you have a corp?
I'm part of valhalla Corp yep!
You completely ignored decomposers.
Man.. You just simply skipped the long range Railguns.. Like WHY lol..
plot twist, they're awesome in PVE(because of range, keep enemies at a distance, mediums are still crap against frigs though)
and sort of OK in pvp, worse tracking and less damage than close range railguns though, but some ships have good bonuses for long range anyway
@@Turanic1 the range is not so great tbh. It still slaps at 26 km
@@harrycherns1037 my Thorax hits up to 1200 at 20km and up to 350 at 39km
@@Turanic1 yeah.. It's no good. You need to get smth over 1k+ on 36km Otherwise you ll taking a lots of damage. You may look at the NPC ships and decide where to go. It's probably Omen or the Stabber you want. Cause it's the real deal range.
@@harrycherns1037 I'll wait for Ferox
I love my drones in eve and echoes. I think they may be due a nerf in echoes.
I'm hoping that either you and/or Benzie will drill home the mantra "There is no BEST anything." into your subscribers' heads. I wish I knew from where the idea of "one thing to rule them all" originates (well, apart from the obvious Tolkein reference). It frustrates me. So I can't imagine how often you folks get hit up for "the secret of the BEST". In a phrase, "There is no 'there' there."
Missiles.
Puppy saved
The best weapon type is the one thats consistently the most expensive on the market and still sells.
Personally i like you better than benzie.
You benzie and b8kd
I wanna save PUPPIES!!!
I love skinning puppies alive. Their precious yelps fuel my evil. ALL WHO LIVE SHALL BE MY PUPPIES!
In all seriousness though, I don't hurt dogs. Anyone who hurts dogs regardless of age deserve the pain of endless torture that even the worst demons in hell would say is to much.
I saved puppies!
Who wouldn’t wanna save puppies.....
Exactly
Just say Raw Damage
I hate puppies
desperate for subs? damn
This video was from a year ago ya fucking idiot
@@Excoundrel what an unprofessional response but to be expected by the spelling
@@ciphergamingsouthafrica8502 i don't really care now bugger off you random nobody
You so confusing ...