This is basically the exact same concept as effective hp and 'diminishing effects' on armour/all res. 50% CDR = cast something twice in the same space as you could before. 66% -> three times. 75% -> four. 80% -> five. 83.4% (ish) -> 6, etc etc. This is because 50% cdr would reduce something from 100s to 50s, and 50 goes into 100 two times. 66% cdr goes from 100 to 33, which goes into 100 three times. 75% cdr goes from 100 to 25, which goes into 100 four times, etc. The core concept is: *the linear difference in CDR to get a given linear difference in effectiveness decreases the more CDR you get* - or in simpler words, more CDR = less sheet CDR difference needed to get a given effect (such as using an ability an extra time in a certain space of time), in the example before it shows that going from 1x to 2x effectiveness takes 50%, but 2x to 3x takes 16% (66%-50%), and 3x to 4x takes 9% (75%-66%) and 4x to 5x takes 5% (80%-75%). This 50%, 16%, 9% etc is the *linear difference in CDR* and the 1x to 2x (1x more), 2x to 3x (1x more), 3x to 4x (again, 1x more) you get the idea, is the *linear difference in effectiveness*. As you can see to get that same difference of 'use an ability one more time' you require less and less sheet CDR. That is, to reiterate: *the linear difference in CDR to get a given linear difference in effectiveness decreases the more CDR you get*. A more mathsy explanation of the contents of the video for those who would like it, as usual, based quin.
I earned two different engineering degrees and learned a lot about mathematics over the last six years, and I can say it made me very happy to read this and be able to understand everything exactly as it was meant to be understood. School has allowed me to understand video game theory crafting and optimization. Not sure if I should be happy or sad about that. xD
all i know is, i stack 100 percent cooldown reduction. so rather the effectiveness is 10000000 to the sky moon doesn't change the fact that its that the cooldown is 50 percent on sheet. which is half. and it is half cause i tested and not 100 percent. REGARDLESS of what the effectiveness is because the actual effectiveness is half and not 100 percent. aka diminishing returns HINT WHY ITS NOT 100 PERCENT..... or else i could have hit 100 and have no cooldown AKA DIMINISHING RETURNS WHY DO YOU THINK YOU CANNOT GET 100 PERCENT even if you stack 1 billions percent cooldown reduction to the end of space, U COULD NEVER GET 100% COOLDOWN. HINT HINT HINT.. BUT THEY CAN NEVER EXPLAIN THAT...
This works for damage reduction too. Simple thought experiment: You have 100HP. You have 90% reduction. A guy can hit you with 100 dmg 10 times because 10dmg goes through. (10*10=100dmg) Now you have 95% reduction (only 5% more) Same guy can hit you with 100 dmg 20 times, twice as many hits! (20*5=100dmg) Don't think about how much % you have total, think about how much you reduce what is left. 90%, what is left is 10%. 95%, what is left is 5%. You halved what is left! Which for dmg is what dmg gets through. For CDR it is what cooldown you have after reduction (you halved your current cooldown in the example!) For RCR it is what cost you have after reduction (you halved the cost of the skill in the example!)
It is the same concept as discounts in a store. If there is a sale and everything in the store has a 50% discount and you use a coupon which reduces your costs by 50%, do you think that there are diminishing returns on your coupon because you don't get your stuff for free?
I find your guides very eyeopening! But I wish I could see the actual mathematics behind the numbers you are spitting out! Especially if I want to calculate stuff my self!
Thx Quin i really like ya builds and vids! My blacksmith is lvl12 and the highest value i can craft is 500 but i saw you having like 613 dexterity f.e. - What am i missing?
Nice informative watch! Just a nitpicky question, does Leorics actually double? I always thought it was like adding another slot with 12,5%. Also, where do you get that Effectiveness number from?(I mean a formula or something) Thanks for doing all the work so we don't have to!
Effectiveness is taken from: -1+(CPM with CDR / CPM) where (CPM with CDR) is (60/(CD of Skill * [100%-Sheet% expressed in decimals])) Leorics doubles the gems value. This is the exact same as just "Adding another slot".
Oh I misunderstood, sorry bout that. Then yes. It would look like less in sheet CDR if it was like 2 slots. With d3's math on Leoric's it does a straight double. Fixed formula above also.
Hey Quin, I'm trying to bounty a RORG with CDR+socket or CC+socket, but the best I got was IAS+socket after at least 1000 bounties. I'm starting to wonder whether those rolls even exist?
Hey *****, is it possible that you can post an editable version of the spreadsheet, i would like to put my own numbers in so i can see what my efectiveness of my gear is!
If it only counts effectivness by the fact of spamming the skill, wit h is usually why u want cdr, but in the ccase of you just want it back up as a failsafe and dont use that ability sometimes like archon for elite packs only or goblins, then it means much much less.
Before 2.2 lands, is there a way to get perma serenity with torch(without Borns since can't use with Leoric's crown) Reason I ask is, I got a nice 4,400 dps torch and due me being bad against surviving rare packs, can't get past grift 40 due to survivability.
one thing he didnt say is how it works and why its not diminishing returns Everything is based on one simple rule: everytime you add a CDR item it applies on the Remaining CDs you have not the total Cd of the skill, example: you have 2 items with 50% CDR each, you put them on, your CDR on sheet is gona be 75% and not 100%, why? the first items is gona give you 50% straight, so a 10sec Cd skill will now be 5sec CD, the second item will further decrease the skill Cd by 50%, only will apply not on the total CD (10s) but on the remaining one (5s), so 50% is gona take 2.5 more seconds away, and that skill will be now on a 2.5s CD. The total CDR will be 75%. They made it so that you can NEVER have 100% CDR, cos that would be obv broken: all the most powerful spells in the game with long CDs would become spammable
The sheet isn't really lying is it? It really does have a diminishing effect it looks like. You stack 158% cdr, but only get your cool down time reduced by 81.74%. However most cds last for a duration and therefore that's where the effectiveness comes in and i understand that. But if you have one of those cds that happen in an instant then the effectiveness would be much closer to the sheet cdr stat. That being said I'm unaware of many cds being less than 1-3 seconds long, at least not animation wise
I feel like Blizzard could have done a better job with its different in-game formulae. I just don't understand why we have to figure out the actual damage we do ourselves. I'm probably being lazy. Even so, I don't feel like I'm wrong.
In the CDR spreadsheet you list Talent between Paragon and Goguk. I have no idea what Talent is, could you help me out here. I view all of your vids and they all give great insight into the game. By the way; I had a roomie at college and currently have neighbors that were from New Zealand, Best of people. The neighbor was on the All Blacks way back when, He invites me over to watch on satellite when ever they play.
Mcgreyger Well the sheet isn't just for monks(only the bottom part where it lists the actual skills and their effectiveness) the top part is your typical cdr on gear that any class can use, and other classes can fill in the 'talent' slot with their own versions of BoY(saders get fervor if using a 1hander, etc)
thats not true. "Effective" CDR is entirely subjective and I dont know why use it. It is subjective because you can plug in any amount of time into the formula and get drastically different results. For example, you can count how many times you can cast serenity in one minute, or in one hour. If you count how many in one minute, a 20% CDR might net you like 100% effectiveness, but if you count how many in one hour, 20% CDR would give like 60000% effectiveness. As you can see, this effectiveness number and formula for it is very subjective, although the concept needs to be understood. Also, CDR can have no effect whatsoever if you take periods of time which are very small. For example, say you have 90% CDR, which is alot, but it will be ZERO effective CDR if the time period you choose is smaller than the cooldown on the spell
+Artyom Arty You completely missed the point, which by the way is that making judgements on how valuable CDR can be solely based on what the sheet displays is a mistake. Edit: The effectiveness (based on Casts Per Minute) which you seem to be stuck on is simply used to illustrate the point.
+Artyom Arty "Effective" CDR is calculated completely separately of the time value he used to make an example of how it works. He gave that example because it's a lot easier for the majority of people to understand since the majority of people are not used to doing this sort of "advanced mathematics" and "how many times I can cast this in X amount of time" is more relatable to them. The actual formula for the "Effective" CDR is: Effective CDR = 1/(1 - (1-cdr1)*(1-cdr2)*....) - 1, where cdr1, cdr2, ... are the individual values you get from gear, paragon, etc. (in raw value instead of % of course). So you should see that theoretically the time frame has absolutely no effect on the result. Yes, you are right about the scale of it, if you have an ability with a 60 sec cd and 50% cdr, it doesn't make a difference in a 15 sec period, but that applies to a lot of stuff in practical mathematics so really there is no way around it. Also for that kind of thing to have a huge practical effect, you'd have to be playing in sessions that are 10 or 20 seconds long, which you should agree is absurd. TL;DR: You're wrong, you didn't understand what "Effective" CDR means.
Ivan Tonchev i wasnt talking about "theoretically bla bla bla". I was talking about EFFECTIVE practical use of CDR. In a 10 second fight, having 5 seconds as cooldown rather than 6 effectively allows you to cast something twice which EFFECTIVELY makes it like a 100% increase in EFFECTIVENESS. I am not trying to be cocky, all i am saying is CDR is more complicated and subjective than most people think and if someone is gonna talk about it like they understand it, they better get it right. Take some time off and think about this whole CDR thing cuz you seem to be misguided/retarded
+Artyom Arty Look, I'm not trying to pick on you, but you need to get past the actual values you saw in QuinC's spreadsheet if you're going to understand the takeaway of the video. Yes, the "effective" values are completely relative to the time frame you use, and therefore can be misleading in the context of a different time frame , but the undeniable fact is that more CDR = smaller cooldowns = more skill up-time = more casts (in any reasonable time frame, like a play session as small as a greater rift). There's no arguing that so don't even try. The real argument would be; At what point do you stop stacking CDR because of diminishing returns? This could be argued forever because there's no right answer. However! The video's takeaway doesn't even require numbers to convey its point.
+Artyom Arty What you're saying is objectively wrong though. In your original post you said that "in one minute, a 20% CDR might net you like 100% effectiveness, but if you count how many in one hour, 20% CDR would give like 60000% effectiveness". Care to explain how you got to that conclusion? Yes, there might be a difference of like 5-10% (that only gets smaller and smaller the more you increase the time frame mind you...) but I don't think that you grasp the fact that these values are all RELATIVE to the time period and fully take it into account. So in theory (yes I know you're going to say "oh but it's all just in theory...") no matter what time frame you choose, you're gonna get the same effectiveness value. Why? Because when you have a ratio and you scale both sides (the total casts for the period and the period itself) by the same value (not equal to zero, duh), the ratio stays the same. Then you add some variance of 5-10% because we have to be "practical" and what you get is pretty close to the original effectiveness value (unless you're talking about time frames of like 5 milliseconds at which point you're just stupid). Also how is calling people misguided/retarded not trying to be cocky .
This still doesn't explain why my gear says 97% CDR but the sheet says 68.86% With 97% my CDs should be close to 0 and that's what you're after for Monk. You want perma Epiphany and perma Serenity... I don't care how effective you say it is. The only effective that matters is you being perma immune and have Spirit Regen... If my Epiphany CD is 14 sec and my Serenity CD is 3.65 then that's all I care about. That's effective. Now back to the problem... 97% CDR when I add it up means almost no CD on skills but in reality my CDs are only reduced by 68.86%. How is the sheet lying? It really isn't... I'm sorry but this guide is useless.
You didn't pay any attention did you?...Try this reddit thread that outlines the exact same thing. Your effective CDR is what actually matters, because it's...well, effective (that's uhh, why they call it that xD). Ignorance is bliss though :) www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/23pnox/the_effectiveness_of_stacking_resource_cost/
The sheet isn't really lying is it? It really does have a diminishing effect it looks like. You stack 158% cdr, but only get your cool down time reduced by 81.74%. However most cds last for a duration and therefore that's where the effectiveness comes in and i understand that. But if you have one of those cds that happen in an instant then the effectiveness would be much closer to the sheet cdr stat. That being said I'm unaware of many cds being less than 1-3 seconds long, at least not animation wise
It 'diminishes' if you compare it to adding all your bonuses together, but that doesn't actually mean anything in terms of effectiveness. RCR and CDR work just like damage reduction bonuses. Think for a second about how 'effective' having two 50% damage reductions would be if you added them together: You would be immortal. What really happens is that you get 100-50%=50% followed by 50-50%=25% of total damage taken, halving your damage twice, but reducing total damage taken by a quarter. Each roll is just as effective as the previous in relative terms, but their combined effectiveness is greater than the sum of its parts, in a literal sense, because the bonuses are effectively multiplied.
Quin doing his part in keeping the Monk realm not only stronger, but SMARTER! *cheers
i like how this guy says everything twice
i like how this guy says everything twice
This is basically the exact same concept as effective hp and 'diminishing effects' on armour/all res. 50% CDR = cast something twice in the same space as you could before. 66% -> three times. 75% -> four. 80% -> five. 83.4% (ish) -> 6, etc etc. This is because 50% cdr would reduce something from 100s to 50s, and 50 goes into 100 two times. 66% cdr goes from 100 to 33, which goes into 100 three times. 75% cdr goes from 100 to 25, which goes into 100 four times, etc.
The core concept is: *the linear difference in CDR to get a given linear difference in effectiveness decreases the more CDR you get* - or in simpler words, more CDR = less sheet CDR difference needed to get a given effect (such as using an ability an extra time in a certain space of time), in the example before it shows that going from 1x to 2x effectiveness takes 50%, but 2x to 3x takes 16% (66%-50%), and 3x to 4x takes 9% (75%-66%) and 4x to 5x takes 5% (80%-75%).
This 50%, 16%, 9% etc is the *linear difference in CDR* and the 1x to 2x (1x more), 2x to 3x (1x more), 3x to 4x (again, 1x more) you get the idea, is the *linear difference in effectiveness*. As you can see to get that same difference of 'use an ability one more time' you require less and less sheet CDR. That is, to reiterate: *the linear difference in CDR to get a given linear difference in effectiveness decreases the more CDR you get*.
A more mathsy explanation of the contents of the video for those who would like it, as usual, based quin.
Ok I'm really blazed and just read that. That shit makes no sense what so ever.
:^)
nG Purge Because. Math.
I earned two different engineering degrees and learned a lot about mathematics over the last six years, and I can say it made me very happy to read this and be able to understand everything exactly as it was meant to be understood.
School has allowed me to understand video game theory crafting and optimization. Not sure if I should be happy or sad about that. xD
all i know is, i stack 100 percent cooldown reduction. so rather the effectiveness is 10000000 to the sky moon doesn't change the fact that its that the cooldown is 50 percent on sheet. which is half. and it is half cause i tested and not 100 percent. REGARDLESS of what the effectiveness is because the actual effectiveness is half and not 100 percent. aka diminishing returns HINT WHY ITS NOT 100 PERCENT..... or else i could have hit 100 and have no cooldown AKA DIMINISHING RETURNS WHY DO YOU THINK YOU CANNOT GET 100 PERCENT even if you stack 1 billions percent cooldown reduction to the end of space, U COULD NEVER GET 100% COOLDOWN. HINT HINT HINT.. BUT THEY CAN NEVER EXPLAIN THAT...
Good info again Quin! Chasing the "holy grail" 75% for perma epiphany and perma serenity maybe key to GR S2.
This works for damage reduction too.
Simple thought experiment:
You have 100HP.
You have 90% reduction.
A guy can hit you with 100 dmg 10 times because 10dmg goes through. (10*10=100dmg)
Now you have 95% reduction (only 5% more)
Same guy can hit you with 100 dmg 20 times, twice as many hits! (20*5=100dmg)
Don't think about how much % you have total, think about how much you reduce what is left.
90%, what is left is 10%. 95%, what is left is 5%. You halved what is left! Which for dmg is what dmg gets through.
For CDR it is what cooldown you have after reduction (you halved your current cooldown in the example!)
For RCR it is what cost you have after reduction (you halved the cost of the skill in the example!)
It is the same concept as discounts in a store. If there is a sale and everything in the store has a 50% discount and you use a coupon which reduces your costs by 50%, do you think that there are diminishing returns on your coupon because you don't get your stuff for free?
I find your guides very eyeopening! But I wish I could see the actual mathematics behind the numbers you are spitting out! Especially if I want to calculate stuff my self!
Yeah, you are the best!!:) And again: Thanks for Help!!
Keep it up, explain us how Blizzard´s-Universe is working.. :)
By the Way:
About Born´s and Cpt. Set....are there another Sets with CDR-Setbonus?
Thx Quin i really like ya builds and vids! My blacksmith is lvl12 and the highest value i can craft is 500 but i saw you having like 613 dexterity f.e. - What am i missing?
Nice informative watch! Just a nitpicky question, does Leorics actually double? I always thought it was like adding another slot with 12,5%.
Also, where do you get that Effectiveness number from?(I mean a formula or something) Thanks for doing all the work so we don't have to!
Effectiveness is taken from:
-1+(CPM with CDR / CPM) where (CPM with CDR) is (60/(CD of Skill * [100%-Sheet% expressed in decimals]))
Leorics doubles the gems value. This is the exact same as just "Adding another slot".
No, adding another slot would show in less sheet cdr is what I mean.Cool if it actually doubles though. Thanks for the formula!
Oh I misunderstood, sorry bout that. Then yes. It would look like less in sheet CDR if it was like 2 slots. With d3's math on Leoric's it does a straight double.
Fixed formula above also.
you da man Quin, thanks for these awesome guides
awesome work! cant wait for 24h stream when s2 launches!! :D
Awesome Stuff keep em coming
Awesome visual explanation. :D
Hey Quin, one question: Do you know how the dmg calculation works for main-/offhand dmg? Especially for wave of light and LTK?
0:44 knicker-lace? You go gurl.
cdr on your negolas is crucial here boyz
This is so good, I have to request Recorder - Titanic as thanks! Kappa
***** Quin's in love with the coco!
Hey Quin, I'm trying to bounty a RORG with CDR+socket or CC+socket, but the best I got was IAS+socket after at least 1000 bounties. I'm starting to wonder whether those rolls even exist?
Man u are the best =D keep it up !
Now we could expect Blizzard to kill this one.But good work,nice explanation.
Hey *****, is it possible that you can post an editable version of the spreadsheet, i would like to put my own numbers in so i can see what my efectiveness of my gear is!
If it only counts effectivness by the fact of spamming the skill, wit h is usually why u want cdr, but in the ccase of you just want it back up as a failsafe and dont use that ability sometimes like archon for elite packs only or goblins, then it means much much less.
Thanx Quin for your awesome guides :D
Before 2.2 lands, is there a way to get perma serenity with torch(without Borns since can't use with Leoric's crown) Reason I ask is, I got a nice 4,400 dps torch and due me being bad against surviving rare packs, can't get past grift 40 due to survivability.
one thing he didnt say is how it works and why its not diminishing returns
Everything is based on one simple rule: everytime you add a CDR item it applies on the Remaining CDs you have not the total Cd of the skill, example:
you have 2 items with 50% CDR each, you put them on, your CDR on sheet is gona be 75% and not 100%, why?
the first items is gona give you 50% straight, so a 10sec Cd skill will now be 5sec CD, the second item will further decrease the skill Cd by 50%, only will apply not on the total CD (10s) but on the remaining one (5s), so 50% is gona take 2.5 more seconds away, and that skill will be now on a 2.5s CD. The total CDR will be 75%.
They made it so that you can NEVER have 100% CDR, cos that would be obv broken: all the most powerful spells in the game with long CDs would become spammable
Now I understand thanks bro
yes its multiplicative, not additive.
The sheet isn't really lying is it? It really does have a diminishing effect it looks like. You stack 158% cdr, but only get your cool down time reduced by 81.74%. However most cds last for a duration and therefore that's where the effectiveness comes in and i understand that. But if you have one of those cds that happen in an instant then the effectiveness would be much closer to the sheet cdr stat. That being said I'm unaware of many cds being less than 1-3 seconds long, at least not animation wise
How do i edit in the document that you have linked in description?
How does the game calculate the Sheet CDR and RCR? How does that formula go? I feel like math geeking over this
I feel like Blizzard could have done a better job with its different in-game formulae.
I just don't understand why we have to figure out the actual damage we do ourselves.
I'm probably being lazy.
Even so, I don't feel like I'm wrong.
***** That makes sence, thank you
***** and without you, most of us math-deficient would be dead in the water.
Just incase you haven't heard it enough; thanks for the help.
Thanks for Help!!
So, what would this look like with elemental and skill damage?
I can get 140% fire. When is that not worth it. I can get 230% Strafe......
what would add cdr to a crosader for a shoulder set item named pauldorne of akkhan?
I’m having trouble with RCR on my DH... could you help please?
What is the Talent category?
In the CDR spreadsheet you list Talent between Paragon and Goguk. I have no idea what Talent is, could you help me out here.
I view all of your vids and they all give great insight into the game.
By the way; I had a roomie at college and currently have neighbors that were from New Zealand, Best of people. The neighbor was on the All Blacks way back when, He invites me over to watch on satellite when ever they play.
He speaks from monks perspective, the passive talent that grants 20% cdr.
Udalix Llew
makes sense, thank you. would have made more sense to say BoY (Beacon of Ytar
Mcgreyger
Well the sheet isn't just for monks(only the bottom part where it lists the actual skills and their effectiveness) the top part is your typical cdr on gear that any class can use, and other classes can fill in the 'talent' slot with their own versions of BoY(saders get fervor if using a 1hander, etc)
Knickerless or knicker-lace? 0:44
Could Blizzard have made this any more fucking confusing?
Blizzard didn't do this, this is just how math works.
+xW d
You don't have to, the Blizzard programmers do enough for all of us.
awesome!
ty for your tutorial´s for us "noob´s" ;DD
whitout you i dont know so much think about diablo3
thank you so much
I shouldn't have to do math to play video games yet here I am with pencil and paper and my calculator. lol back to school I go
Funny video. LOOK HOW LARGE THE NUMBER IS.
You should update it with hte new serenity mechanics, if you haven't already.
Sold my laptop to get a new one. 2 weeks without laptop and no Diablo Dayum pff
7:21 have a flippin' good gay
Sorry, had to point it out lol.
and you inadvertently ended up calling us all gay. How rude.
***** It's quite funny, with that, the "I love you guys" takes a whole other meaning. XD
Okay I am Soo fucking confuse
Wtf is resource reduction?
What it do?
Shieet
paragon 10%
not 20
He knows that. He says it in the video. He was illustrating a point. Pay attention.
Why is this in my recommended? LOLW
thats not true. "Effective" CDR is entirely subjective and I dont know why use it. It is subjective because you can plug in any amount of time into the formula and get drastically different results. For example, you can count how many times you can cast serenity in one minute, or in one hour. If you count how many in one minute, a 20% CDR might net you like 100% effectiveness, but if you count how many in one hour, 20% CDR would give like 60000% effectiveness. As you can see, this effectiveness number and formula for it is very subjective, although the concept needs to be understood.
Also, CDR can have no effect whatsoever if you take periods of time which are very small. For example, say you have 90% CDR, which is alot, but it will be ZERO effective CDR if the time period you choose is smaller than the cooldown on the spell
+Artyom Arty You completely missed the point, which by the way is that making judgements on how valuable CDR can be solely based on what the sheet displays is a mistake.
Edit:
The effectiveness (based on Casts Per Minute) which you seem to be stuck on is simply used to illustrate the point.
+Artyom Arty "Effective" CDR is calculated completely separately of the time value he used to make an example of how it works. He gave that example because it's a lot easier for the majority of people to understand since the majority of people are not used to doing this sort of "advanced mathematics" and "how many times I can cast this in X amount of time" is more relatable to them.
The actual formula for the "Effective" CDR is:
Effective CDR = 1/(1 - (1-cdr1)*(1-cdr2)*....) - 1,
where cdr1, cdr2, ... are the individual values you get from gear, paragon, etc. (in raw value instead of % of course).
So you should see that theoretically the time frame has absolutely no effect on the result. Yes, you are right about the scale of it, if you have an ability with a 60 sec cd and 50% cdr, it doesn't make a difference in a 15 sec period, but that applies to a lot of stuff in practical mathematics so really there is no way around it. Also for that kind of thing to have a huge practical effect, you'd have to be playing in sessions that are 10 or 20 seconds long, which you should agree is absurd.
TL;DR: You're wrong, you didn't understand what "Effective" CDR means.
Ivan Tonchev i wasnt talking about "theoretically bla bla bla". I was talking about EFFECTIVE practical use of CDR. In a 10 second fight, having 5 seconds as cooldown rather than 6 effectively allows you to cast something twice which EFFECTIVELY makes it like a 100% increase in EFFECTIVENESS.
I am not trying to be cocky, all i am saying is CDR is more complicated and subjective than most people think and if someone is gonna talk about it like they understand it, they better get it right. Take some time off and think about this whole CDR thing cuz you seem to be misguided/retarded
+Artyom Arty Look, I'm not trying to pick on you, but you need to get past the actual values you saw in QuinC's spreadsheet if you're going to understand the takeaway of the video. Yes, the "effective" values are completely relative to the time frame you use, and therefore can be misleading in the context of a different time frame , but the undeniable fact is that more CDR = smaller cooldowns = more skill up-time = more casts (in any reasonable time frame, like a play session as small as a greater rift). There's no arguing that so don't even try.
The real argument would be; At what point do you stop stacking CDR because of diminishing returns? This could be argued forever because there's no right answer. However! The video's takeaway doesn't even require numbers to convey its point.
+Artyom Arty What you're saying is objectively wrong though. In your original post you said that "in one minute, a 20% CDR might net you like 100% effectiveness, but if you count how many in one hour, 20% CDR would give like 60000% effectiveness". Care to explain how you got to that conclusion? Yes, there might be a difference of like 5-10% (that only gets smaller and smaller the more you increase the time frame mind you...) but I don't think that you grasp the fact that these values are all RELATIVE to the time period and fully take it into account. So in theory (yes I know you're going to say "oh but it's all just in theory...") no matter what time frame you choose, you're gonna get the same effectiveness value. Why? Because when you have a ratio and you scale both sides (the total casts for the period and the period itself) by the same value (not equal to zero, duh), the ratio stays the same. Then you add some variance of 5-10% because we have to be "practical" and what you get is pretty close to the original effectiveness value (unless you're talking about time frames of like 5 milliseconds at which point you're just stupid).
Also how is calling people misguided/retarded not trying to be cocky .
Explain the math formula and not the program please. You add numbers and say "look at these!" but we see the results of some underlying math.
This still doesn't explain why my gear says 97% CDR but the sheet says 68.86%
With 97% my CDs should be close to 0 and that's what you're after for Monk. You want perma Epiphany and perma Serenity... I don't care how effective you say it is. The only effective that matters is you being perma immune and have Spirit Regen... If my Epiphany CD is 14 sec and my Serenity CD is 3.65 then that's all I care about. That's effective.
Now back to the problem... 97% CDR when I add it up means almost no CD on skills but in reality my CDs are only reduced by 68.86%. How is the sheet lying? It really isn't... I'm sorry but this guide is useless.
You didn't pay any attention did you?...Try this reddit thread that outlines the exact same thing. Your effective CDR is what actually matters, because it's...well, effective (that's uhh, why they call it that xD). Ignorance is bliss though :)
www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/23pnox/the_effectiveness_of_stacking_resource_cost/
The sheet isn't really lying is it? It really does have a diminishing effect it looks like. You stack 158% cdr, but only get your cool down time reduced by 81.74%. However most cds last for a duration and therefore that's where the effectiveness comes in and i understand that. But if you have one of those cds that happen in an instant then the effectiveness would be much closer to the sheet cdr stat. That being said I'm unaware of many cds being less than 1-3 seconds long, at least not animation wise
It 'diminishes' if you compare it to adding all your bonuses together, but that doesn't actually mean anything in terms of effectiveness. RCR and CDR work just like damage reduction bonuses. Think for a second about how 'effective' having two 50% damage reductions would be if you added them together: You would be immortal. What really happens is that you get 100-50%=50% followed by 50-50%=25% of total damage taken, halving your damage twice, but reducing total damage taken by a quarter. Each roll is just as effective as the previous in relative terms, but their combined effectiveness is greater than the sum of its parts, in a literal sense, because the bonuses are effectively multiplied.