DOCTOR WHO's 60th IS a Multi-Doctor story... here's why. (Degeneration Theory)
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- Опубліковано 20 лип 2023
- Hello UA-cam and People Of the interwebs! In today's video I take a look at the 'Degeneration theory' and why I am confident in saying that this November's 60th Specials will be Multi-Doctor stories! Let me know your thoughts in the comments down below, or by joining the discord server.
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My personal theory is that the Toymaker is exploiting the unfinished business of the 10th Doctor, wanting more time with this face and fixing what happened to Donna and he'll offer those to him at the cost of making them his toys, it'll be a metaphor for holding on to the past or something similar. It would be cool if the same is also done for 11 and 12, saving Clara/Bill or getting to see Amy and Rory again.
imo youre on the right track. some sort of toymaker fuckery going on fs.
What about 10, 11, 12 all get given a lifeline from the Toymaker, What if the DoctorDonna was stable?, What if you never went to NYC with Amy and Rory?, What if you never went to trap street with Clara? and they all say no but the toymaker doesn't take no for an answer. He does it anyway which causes the timeline to collapse in on itself with the Doctors degenerating and then regenerating then degenerating again and they have to beat the Toymaker to fix the timeline.
@@LunaPhoebeQuinn That would be cool, though given the focus on Tennant I wouldn't be surprised if Smith and Capaldi do show up in this manner it'll likely only be briefly, possibly after Tennant and Donna reject his offer and he becomes more desperate.
Something like this would be really cool. It would be interesting to see RTD write for these companions
@@mrdoctorgilmore Yeah, I think that'd be how they appear - minor cameos from 11 and Amy, 12 and Clara and 13 and Yaz as the Toymaker tries to find an incarnation who'll except his deal, only to be rejected, resulting in the proper 14th Doctor finally being realized.
I doubt this will happen though, solely because I think the specials focus on 10 and Donna - Gatwa's situation seems to be tied to the stakes of the story, and it feels like they'd not be having the 10th Doctor return as """14""" if others had any real presence.
I’m hoping capaldi is only saying that similar to Andrew Garfield being in Spider-Man
He did say he wasn't interested in coming back and that he closed the door.
Q 11th
@@Craigy2818 Its a weird thing for him to say seeing as he's a massive Doctor Who nerd. I feel like he'd be happy to show up on an anniversary.
@@Craigy2818Then again, when they were filming a public scene with chaos in the streets, two people could be spotted looking similar to Matt Smith and Peter Capaldi, so I am not ruling out that they were stand-ins for the original actors who would later film their bits in the studio or something.
@@Logicalleaping I imagine even for massive fans, the job is very exhausting. Multiple actors who have played the Doctor cite a desire to get back to their families because the filming schedule keeps them away for months at a time. Very few Doctors stay as long as they originally planned to when they got the part and optimistically talked about wanting to stay in for a long time. It's not too much of a stretch to think that, after all of that, they may want to just step away from the show as a whole.
Perhaps Ncuti's doctor is talking to a few previous doctors when he's all "someone tell me what the hell is going on here" and we get a few extra cameos on top of the returning classics from power of the doctor as the guardians of the edge
I remember David Tennent saying that they'ed been a totally closed filming session with "people we'd not guessed at" there!
My theory is that Smith, Capaldi & Whitakker all did a closed session in the final days of Jodie's era, hence Capaldi saying that he's "Done with Doctor Who!" because he'd already completed his filming!
I also think the Toymaker's plans specifically bought back Tennent's face because of Donna's situation, with her condition having something to do with his plans!
Therefore, I suspect there will be a short multi Doctor sequence in "Giggle"
I love this theory and if they slightly tweaked the 14th doctor costume for different faces as you said in the video, it would be a really interesting and cool way of doing a multi doctor story in a unique way !!!
I think it would be cool if the Doctor did switch between different faces throughout the specials, but I do feel like the Guardians of the Edge is also a pretty cool way of bringing back Smith, Capaldi or Whittaker as well so this is another possibility. There must be a reason as to why The Star Beast is not as secretive as Wild Blue Yonder and The Giggle, which I believe is because both of them will be multi-Doctor stories to some extent so yeah. It would be great if we saw Tom Baker as the Curator one last time as well, seeing as how he wasn't available for The Power of the Doctor I feel like that would only make sense. David Tennant has said that despite the fact we have seen plenty of footage already, there is still A LOT more going on in the 60th than fans realise, and he also said to expect the unexpected.
The Curator has regenerated into Colin Baker. He's in Once and Future.
@@kennethraymondmoore Yes of course I am aware of this, but the TV show has contradicted extended media a lot of times over the years, so that might be the case here, or it could just be T. Baker's Curator from before he regenerates into C. Baker.
If the Guardians show up again, don't just have them be new Doctors. Let them be Classic ones too.
I'd love to see this. Although, Big Finish is doing a multi doctor degeneration story for the 60th with the Classic Doctors- Once and Future.
It’s gonna take someone like RTD to make this 60th work
I love all of this. In classic Who we were told regeneration was limited to 12 because more than 12 was unstable, and pre Hartnell Doctors don't inherently retcon any of that, so it would be cool if their regens are going wonky, degrading, and 14 keeps fluctuating between old faces, while meeting past faces (but only the old favorites eh?), until finding a way to actually fix it, and regenerating into Ncuti
I love this idea!
What If just like you said about the regenerations going wonky and ncuti gatwa is actually a mixture of previous Doctors just like jo Martin and Christopher Eccleston as his doctor is just like the 9th in the description. Or it could be a mixture of all incarnations fusing together to bring another incarnation like Ncuti
RTD’s said there’s a 5 letter word as an anagram in ‘ Wild Blue Yonder ‘ that’ll explain how David Tennant’s 10th doctor is back. Well DROID is there as an anagram
I just realized 14th sonic is a combination of 9/10th + 11th + 12th sonics mesh together quite nicely yet chaotic.
Loved it! Well done... particularly about the Costume. ;-)
I totally believe that of all the doctors 11 is the most likely to return
Altho tennant playing both 10 and 14 would be awesome
Excellent vid and reasoning and the clothes and sonic are spot on. Homage only or a sign to other incarnations? I guess all will become clear in time. I’ve long thought some other incarnations and likely the most recent nu who docs are in it, whatever, for sure. But I think the reason this is a new, not past incarnation, is about using David as he is now in a spin off as this Doctor (which is extension in terms of character as his old self) and allows David to have his series without people saying he’s too old to pass as the tenth incarnation.
It might be David is the guest star in Ncuti’s finale leading into this.
i think it will be a scene in the tardis where theyre trying to stop the toymkaer and he keeps switching them to mix them up but its not working
After over hyping myself leading up to Day of the Doctor, I did like the special but I was kinda expecting it to be like Power of the Doctor back then, I'm just going to be excited with what we know is coming, instead of hoping that someone or something will pop up and if they do, then it will be more add more to the excitement!
I like your theory. I think that someone will make a cameo and they are keeping it super top secret.
Be interesting to see what happens. I'm fairly lucky I dont live far from many of the filming locations like "bad wolf bay" and Cardiff, often go to both. Enjoyed your video as always.
What an amazing theory....I so hope you are right!! I would love to see any of the New Who Doctors back...especially...and I know its a long shot but Peter Capaldi...I would be in heaven!
I must say that's an interesting take...I've been wondering for a couple of days why they made a trailer for the *Sonic* of a Doctor who's only (supposedly) going to appear in the three specials. It seems like a lot of trouble (and expense) to go to. I've been saying for months that there was an amazing amount of blue in the first teaser trailer that was released on Christmas...and when I learned that one of the anniversary specials is titled "Wild Blue Yonder", I started getting really excited. Now we have this heavily hyped new Sonic, and guess what its dominant color is?
What does it all mean? I have no idea. Like that unidentified gent in the tweed jacket who was seen running through the street when the 60th filming was going on, it's a glimpse of something fun and mysterious.
Probably because this is the sonic Ncuti Gatwa is having as well, RTD kept the same sonic throughout his run wouldn't be surprised for him to do it again. Especially because his writing had the Doctor use it far less that is has been in recent years (Moffat - Chibnall)
Definitely very possible we have an episode set inside the Sonic itself. Lots of people have been speculating based on the title that it'll be a fully TARDIS-bound episode, but we've never had an episode centered around the screwdriver.
Every episode has props, costumes, etc., made just for that episode. Making a fairly small prop for three episodes is neither a lot of trouble nor expense.
Your theory is what I imagined when I realised David was coming back. Cool idea 🙂
Love this idea. It's wild and I love it!
A year ago (or more) there was a leak saying the 13th Doctor's regeneration would result in a split into two new Doctors. It sounded ridiculous at the time, but now I'm wondering if it's possible Tennant and Gatwa's Doctors are existing simultaneously, due to some trickery on the Toymaker's part.
Would be a very interesting reason to hide Ncuti's official number, if he and David are simultaneously the 14th incarnation.
@@BlueSparxLPsThey aren't hiding Ncuti's number though? He's confirmed to be the 15th Doctor. RTD isn't going to undermine the first black and queer Doctor by having him not be the unambiguous main lead Doctor like every single one before him.
@@HOTD108_ First of all, that was over 3 months ago and his number has since been definitively confirmed, so I know this.
Second, on the ambiguity issue, there's actually a leak suggesting that's exactly what will happen. I won't go into details for obvious reasons, but the leak has been accurate about now dozens of confirmed details on the 60th and the newly confirmed Christmas special title.
wow, "confused" has never been used more appropriately used, lol. Trying to keep up with you is like trying to follow a high caliber bullet ricocheting off of the insides of a geodesic sphere, lol. I get what you're trying to say and I understand that you're very excited. I'm just new to your channel and was hoping for some actual news. good luck with your future presentations and enjoy the upcoming series.
This is giving me “are Toby and Andrew going to be in the new Spider-Man” era vibes
Well done! Liking those theories.
Your theory is very plausible. I like it! Hope you’re correct! Subbed
Ncuti was definitely revealed as the being the 15th Doctor by the official website a while back.
WOW...I love this theory...hoping to see some of it in the future...
Hi Joe how are you and i can't wait to see 60th anniversary in November i wish it was on sooner ❤💙💙
I’m super happy to hear the theory I’ve been championing getting some talk.
Last episode had most of the classic Doctors and it's possible we might have most of the modern Doctors in these three episodes.
My favorite theory is that Donna regenerates into the Timeless Child.
I like your theory Ncuti's Doctor trying to get through. My theory is now that the Doctor is David Tennant again he has too also regenerate back into Matt Smith, Peter Capaldi and possibly Jodie Whitaker again in order to move forward and regenerate into Ncuti Gatwa.
Sooooo... you evidently forgot the 25th anniversary special, Silver Nemesis, which wasnt a multi-Doctor story
"Off We Go, Into the" Wild Blue Yonder: A song used as the theme for the US Air Force/Army during WWII, a theme of flight in general, including sky diving, where a common yell to leap was "Geronimo".
Interesting theories! It could be that Jasmine Finney has scenes with Ncuti because the specials must surely end with a regeneration into him? It's possible her character is with him at that point, with the Christmas special picking up immediately after.
The tie is called a knit tie because, well it’s knit silk instead of woven silk. And you are right it can be tied many different ways including as a bow.
Knit silk? Probably underneath it is reminiscent of the Doctor's scarf?
@@SoulPoetryandOtherWorksthat’s a fascinating suggestion. Subtle and obscure but intriguing also. Who knows how deep a rabbit hole can go?…
Cool ideas i especially like the idea of the costume being easily changeable into other doctors styles, this is a bit of a wild idea of my own but what if the toymaker wants to trap the doctor so he jijacks the regeneration brining back tennant because he didnt want to go and would be easiest to manipulate with donna, he'd be like you can be this face and have Donna forever if this doesnt work mybe he tries with the other doctors and their comapnions
Wow, I pulled a muscle listening to that tie reach! But I hope you’re right :)
My only issue with this theory is that we already have a comic based story that does not give any indication to this. In the comic he functions completely normally as if he’s 10 again. And as the Curator said, he would revisit a few faces, the old favorites. My personal theory is that Susan Foreman is involved in the 60th, and Rose may be her under a chameleon arch in a new regeneration solely because the timeline of Donna having a child who’s fully grown would be confusing cuz Catherine Tate I think was in her 40s during series 4 so to have a fully grown child now but still look largely the same would be super confusing. They’ve teased Susan recently with the “what ever happened to her” on Instagram so what if she did the chameleon arch and got inserted into Donna’s timeline as her daughter in a new incarnation because wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff and that’s why Donna can remember him?
❤ this . Thank you.
I think that Hugh Laurie would be perfect in the role of The Doctor. Dr. House becomes Doctor Who!
I would be a lot more excited for the 60th if I knew we'd be seeing some very angry eyebrows, lol.
Ncuti had ‘15’ in his instagram bio for the longest time until recently when he’s seemingly removed it. Adding to what you said about nowhere official confirming he is 15th.
I want a multi-doctor special with companions over the years
Good theory on the degeneration. Just as the star beast was a comic story at about the same time there was a degeneration story.
It would be good if they did a degeneration but that must be something that must happen quite briefly as Tennant seems to be leading all three episodes. I think the forced regeneration will be linked with the meta crisis and maybe reverse Donna’s condition. Rose also must have time lord energy much like River Song. Maybe a combination of these situations maybe used to restore Gallifrey. Also has anyone mentioned that Donna said “Binary, binary, binary” when we realised that she had a fallout from the meta crises and then binary codes as hidden messages. Also no one has mentioned that Star Beast comic strip ends when there is a star jump so maybe Donna and Doctor are catapulted to another dimension at the end of Star Beast to lead into Wild Blue Yonder where lots of weird multi Doctor stuff happens.
I'm certain Matt Smith will be returning for the 60th cos:
1. RTD is definitely keeping ep2 very secret and not revealing much so want's smiths return to be a suprise.
2. I doubt RTD would miss a chance to reunite fans with two of the most popular doctors of the franchise especially since smith and tennant worked so well together in the 50th.
3. The new sonic is predominently a combination of designs from the 10th and 11th sonics.
4. Matt smith loves the show and want's to return. His body language suggests he's lying, touching hair etc. ua-cam.com/video/6rfobY7Q3i0/v-deo.html
@archiveman1 any more specific?
Everyone seems to be forgetting the fact that RTD has said clearly that the background behind Ncuti in that brief scene is not the actual background. He's gone on record as saying that the actual place he's in when he says that would be WAY too spoilery. So it seems fair to guess that it's a way more important scene (or at a more important moment) than it may seem.
I've also ben of the opinion that the fact that Tennant appears in a whole new suit is WAY more important than RTD's simple statement that he thought it'd be uncomfortable to have Tennant appear in Jodie's clothes.
The one thing I want to say is google search images of the Master's Laser Screwdriver, the bottom of the 14th Doctor's Sonic looks like it
Thought i was the only one that see that
I did not expect the reference to The Film Theorists
Russell said that he didnt like multi doctor stories like 13 years ago. Looks like he backtracked because back in 2020 or 2021 he said there needs to be a miniseries starring 10 and 11 together. Also, Peter denying that he's in the 60th doesnt prove that he's not in it. If he were in it do you really think he'd just straight up say it. Catherine Tate outright denied she was in the 60th like a week before she was announced to return. They have to sign NDA's. They have to lie.
I've been thinking for ages now that he would be degenerating and wearing lots of faces (fingers crossed for a 8th doctor moment) it would make so much sense , but and its a big but, Big Finish is currently doing this EXACT story line. and I can't see Russel being willing to share it . but i really really hope I'm wrong as is such a cool story line.
November needs to get here yesterday.
I loved Day of The Doctor. That was brilliant.
I reckon that Tom Baker will be in the 60th somewhere and his unavailability for Power of the Doctor was just a cover.
it would make sense as a repercussion of that one episode of the tenth's tenure where the master fast forwards the doctors age to become a dobby-esque creature.
I wouldn't be surprised if the original title for the second Special was Guardians of the Edge, because I believe RTD said to DWM that some of Chibnall's ideas dovetailed nicely into his plans for the 60th.
No, you've got the inverse there - when talking about Power of the Doctor, Chibnall talked about how it sorta fit nicely with what happens next - that, of course, being the degeneration cliffhanger with Tennant.
What i heard was that capaldi won''t like to do multi doctor story, maybe the doctor regeneration is messed up because of the master's and the toymaker's influence is keeping him with the 10thish face... But maybe he's face changes briefly in the wild ble yonder
It has 14 and a bit of 15, boom multi doctor
I would like it if they did degeneration but I would like to see some galifray lore maybe about why he’s regenerating like if you have more regenerations it starts massing with your appearance or something idk (btw I’m only up to the end of Matt smith era so idk how later episodes would effect this)
Russell Who ❤️! Back to “REAL WHO PRODUCTION “ #14 , #15 ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Also... it is slim... but if River make a cameo... I'm just saying... beside the other canon media, it will make sense why she was comfortable looking at Tenth Doctor, maybe she assume it's Fourteenth Doctor with the "Tenth" face...
Well...she did say he looked so young in the library...
The last incarnation she saw was 12.
the twisty part at the bottom of the screwdriver is from the masters laser screwdriver.
So it’s going to have multiple episodes like when Jodi’s doctor had to deal with the Flux?
Makes some sense. And considering what the Master did in Power of the Doctor that was never done before? Christopher won't come back. Jodie just left. Good to see more of them. And you could have all of them come back just played by different actors.❤❤
Big Finish is already doing this with Once and Future!
I am not a 100% ruling out a cameo from Eccleston. He got more attacked to the character through Big Finish, is getting more aware of the fanbase through conventions and is still calling RTD a brilliant writer.
although eccleston was involved in big audio. his working with russell t davis is in the past...
Nice!
dimensions in time was really good for me because i'd of been 7 at the time, already a hardcore whovian, i remember when it was broadcast
Just praying for Martha to make an appearance in one of the specials 😂
Ncuti was announced as the 15th doctor on the site even If in that majority of the posts his number is not shown
I love that theory. I think it is possible Matt Smaith and Peter Capaldi could be in it and I would be surprised if Christopher Eccleston would come back to the show for the first time in years. But I like the theory of Degenerating and I think it is possible. I remember going on Facebook and hearing some rumors that Matt Smith was coming back, and I think seeing that hairstyle is a possibility and seeing Peter Capaldi with Rachel Talalay is a possibility that he could come back, and he is a fan of the show, and he likes working with Rachel Talalay. But seeing the Doctor going back to previous faces and the 15th Doctor trying to breakthrough the degeneration what is the Toymaker's plan?
I could see an "extra" Doctor in the 60th anniversary being (gasp!) The Tenth Doctor, with Ten and Fourteen having quite a scene if they see each other. Perhaps even the "Outlaw" Doctor could make an appearance, or "The First Doctor". I am just thinking of the not so obvious choices....
did you get that idea from big finish?
It's releasing in November right?
I hope I get to see Matt smith again
A good theory 👌
my theory is that nph is the valeyard not the toymaker
Why him?
I just think it'd be funny if the 10th and the 14th doctors met
Wild blue yonder=back to metebilis III with sean pertwee as 3rd doctor please.
I hope we get to see 13 again ❤
I think that you're really on to something. What I think is what's gonna happen is that hes going to turn into one of them, as mentioned, and then turned into another, and then eventually back to tennant. When Tennant comes back, he'll be glad hes him again. And then we'll say something offended on one of the remarks that he clicked setup by himself when he turn into either 12 or 11. and then when he degenerates back into the other form that made that snarky remark, he instantly takes it back his positive remark to tennant. And from there, it's just going to escalate so frequently with the popping in and out of each doctor as he degenerates, then regenerates then degenerates, and it will get to the point where they are all arguing jin the same moment, just by degenerating and regenerating within a moment's instance. Like, it's the same body, but he pops up as 12, who says something snarky. Then 10 pops in says something snarky back, then degenerates back to 11, Who's like "guys, stop it!" It's a multidoctor story, but at the doctor's occupy the same body and pop in and out between eachother through regeneration.
(NOTE: I'm really 🪁 , so I hope that's comprehensible lol)
Christopher Eccleston on awesome con said that he filmed something for 60th anniversary
i like the theory but due to what big finish is doing for the 60th with once and future i dont think it will happen but there is a small chance
Wasn't the 50th special multi-doctor too?
What if they use old doctors to waste regeneration so they if they get cancel with Gnuti they can give an ending to the Doctor's story.
I See what you did thear at the end😂
Why does the sonic screwdriver regenerate also?
I don't think the degeneration theory will turn true - as in, I don't think """The Fourteenth Doctor""" is any other than The Tenth Doctor, back once again. Special 2's plot is entirely unknown, but from the sounds of things, it's still just 10 and Donna, like Special 1, with other characters separate to that. Special 3 seems to be where we get multi-Doctor stuff, but seemingly only with Tennant and Gatwa - if the former is an anomaly, a subversion, and Gatwa is the real Fourteenth Doctor, the person 13 should have regenerated into, then I suspect he'd be there as a ghost of unrealized potential or something, and Tennant's version of the Doctor, who's whole thing was about vanity and not wanting to go, has to learn to embrace change and become the new Doctor. And, in that case, I can't really see other Doctors fitting into that kind of story - seems like we might be in a situation where the anniversary only has one old Doctor and the new Doctor, and none of the classics/other modern Doctors.
@archiveman1 "Split into two."
Huh? Like, the meta-crisis? 14" would be left open ended?
What about Paul McGann? He deserves more screen time!
Capaldi seems legit about being "done" with Who.
I can’t wait to finally watch The Smugglers even though it will be animated it’s better than nothing lol The Underwater Menace is also getting animated. It’s my least favorite Troughton story but I’ll take it lol I was hoping The Highlanders would be getting animated
Sincerely doubt it, also i kind of want a non-multi Doctor anniversary just to keep it fresh (fespite the old face). I love how they brought back obscure villains though (for me canon never really mattered, as long its a good story).
Silver Nemesis is a non-multi-Doctor anniversary special (25th), so it's not unprecedented.
Im just bothered that the 15th is wearing very much different styles in the coming series. Including hair styles? I just hope Tennant is a new version of the Doctor for the specials, and the others make cameos, but good theory you got ;) :)
Unless the Peter Cushing Doctors in it then I’m never watching Docta Whhoo ever again!!!!!!!!!! 😂
Everybody keeps saying that Jodie won't be in the specials. Couldn't they have just filmed a scene or two for her to have a brief appearance, knowing she was pregnant and wouldn't be able to come back for filming before she officially left? I'm sure RTD would have already had an idea of what the specials were going to be about by that stage. Let's face it, he was announced before Jodie left.